'The Lost Boys' Mafia (Cry Little Sister, it's OVER!)

[VitaminR]

/confirm

[VitaminR]

Vote: No Lynch

for poops and giggles.

unvote

since the random stage appears to have come to an abrupt end.

Are you serious, TCS?

Vote: The Fonz

[VitaminR]

Explain.

No Lynch benefits scum. Taking TCS seriously is fishing and setting yourself up to vote him when he turns out not to be serious.

As you have now done.

FOS: Arafax

for his TCS vote. Another fish.

[VitaminR]

I have performance anxiety what with so many people.

Unvote

vote: TinVision

Why would you get performance anxiety during the random vote phase? And why bother unvoting there?

And... another reason to vote you.

[VitaminR]

Yes, a No Lynch random vote is completely useless. No Lynch Day 1 benefits scum and so does essentially not casting a random vote.

[VitaminR]

I find the idea of a day cop with multiple investigations per day, even if its a number per game as very suspicious so I am going for a

Vote TCS

it seems as though he is trying to get us confused, and destroy as many theories as possible, to keep us from working as a group. Even though there are very few theories at the start of the game.

That's a pretty bad vote.

Sudo_Nym's post doesn't strike me as that damning, especially considering his last post.

What's a "Person C" post?

[VitaminR]

Oh right, that one. Yeah, I think that roughly applies. It was a scummy vote, anyway.

[VitaminR]

While these are very opposed to it : Yosarian2, MoS, Tin-Vision, Pooky....I just wanted to get that out there.

Put me on that list too.

I don't see how anyone can take TCS' shtick seriously.

[VitaminR]

Guys, this bandwagon is great and all, but today we really, really need to lynch The Fonz. He's so obveously scum.

*agrees*

[VitaminR]

Does that post scream scum to anyone else?

[VitaminR]

Unvote: TheFonz, Vote: Sir.Laggalot

I wish I had two votes.

[VitaminR]

Voting on The Fonz: (i think he is scum too, and they are doing it for safety but i might be wrong.)
Yosarian2
MoS
Pooky

The last two never voted TheFonz.

Defending The Fonz:
Yosarian2
VitaminR

Neither of us has defended TheFonz.

Ok so with this here is my conclusion.

FOS: VitaminR, and Yosarian2

FomS: TCS and The Fonz

I may be reading WAY to much out of this but, this is what i see and with that

Vote VitaminR

Why? I don't see what's scummy about your list of facts, corrected or uncorrected.

(oh and i have a spell check on my browser but i still have to get the word close which is why Rediculus is misspelled in the above post)

It's "ridiculous."

the connection between those 3 is purely sexual, i assure you.

Hot.

I don't really see what the link between me and MoS is supposed to be. The only thing we have in common is not taking TCS seriously. That goes for a lot of people.

I agree with Yos on TheFonz. Big deal.

OK so i went over the past votes from people and this is what i came up with for the vampires, and what they have done.

Does it strike anyone else that only two people have used the term "vampires?"

Sudo_Nym did it too a page ago, I think.

FOS: Sudo_Nym

That and your non sequitur of an OMGUS vote make me very happy with my vote.

[VitaminR]

Hmm... That came out a little more vicious then I meant it to, sorry VitaminR.

No worries.

Your point is fair enough.

I'd still like to know why you think I'm scum, though.

[VitaminR]

Ok well i would disregard any Voting block i may seem to see because i am obviously very bad at getting data right, let alone putting it together as a readable text.

I believe that you are scum because i, at least, see a connection between you, Yosarian2 and MoS.

A connection between scum is usually more subtle. Voting together or defending another player together out in the open is a bit too risky for the meagre benefits of it. Try to look for players insincerely defending each other. Another good tell applies when two players never seem to analyse each other posts (never vote or FOS each other or question each other's votes). That could be because they know each other's alignment already.

Also, players that have played with each other before (especially in the early stages of a game) can often easily agree on their opinions of other players, because they are aware of the conventions of playing mafia on this site.

And just to get to Day 2 where things might happen i will

Vote To Lynch Afarax

sorry man but, there is nothing solid about your case and, i am second in line for lynch. I don't want my first game to end on day one.

Day 1 usually doesn't end this quickly. If you are wagonned heavily in the early stages of it, there is still a very good chance you'll make it to Day 2. Usually, this kind of thinking (where you assume the end of the day is imminent and vote to save yourself) is not really appropriate unless someone has threatened to hammer you or a deadline is approaching.

I'm going to

Unvote: Sir.Laggalot

for the moment. The wagon has merit, but, having seen a bit more of Sir.Laggalot, I'm not convinced it is necessarily more than newbishness.

[VitaminR]

I'm going back to

Vote: The Fonz

Quickly jumps on The Fonz for voting No Lynch during the random voting stage. While I agree the No Lynching on day one is almost always scummy, was there ever any real threat that a No Lynch would ever actually happen?

No, but there is just no reason for a town player to vote it. It brings us nothing. It doesn't create discussion. It's a bad vote.

Why exactly is this suspicion-raising? The Fonz's question seems perfectly legitimate to me.

-TinVision-'s post was a bit jokey. The Fonz took it a bit too seriously, I thought. Voting someone for admitting to being nervous seemed a bit too easy.

This has already been addressed, but vampires in place of a mafia should be fairly common sense. Flay did require you to watch the movie before signing up, didn't he? Seems like pretty thin grounds to launch an attack.

Vampires in place of a mafia does make sense, but, in general, on the first day of a themed game few people refer to the mafia by its theme-specific name. It could be a sign that the player involved has had more chance to think in the game's terms. In other words, a player who has received a vampire role and perhaps talked to their vampire buddies will be more likely to use that term.

[VitaminR]

Disagree. The point is to catch some opportunistic scummy type leaping in yelling, na na, no-lynch is scummy! Vote Fonz! When, of course, it doesn't matter, since it's a random vote, and is no more likely to lead to an actual no-lynch than a player is to be lynched off random votes.

The last part of this is true to an extent and I wouldn't have voted you just on your No Lynch vote. My main issue with you was the way you handled the TCS vote. If that was your intention, though, why didn't you vote me?

Tin's vote wasn't necessarily scummy, but it was strange, and I felt by pressing him on it, it would create discussion, and get us into an issues-based stage of the game more quickly.

The problem I have with a No Lynch random vote is that it doesn't do this. If no-one falls for it, it is useless.

I think the No Lynch comment has been blown way out of proportion. It was only a secondary part of why I voted The Fonz.

[VitaminR]

As opposed to a random vote, which is guaranteed to generate lots of interesting discussion?

More, yes.

Mmmm hmmm. The other part was even weaker. Why is it all at all scummy to have believed TCS? It wasn't entirely unreasonable that he

could

have been a daycop. Why is asking someone who has apparently claimed if that claim is real or joke fishing? I'm sorry, but gullibility or inability to detect written sarcasm is not a scumtell.

That in itself is not scummy, but, as I indicated, it can be a way of setting up a future vote by acting surprised that TCS wasn't serious. I feel you were trying to make too much out of TCS' daycop joke so you could create pressure on him.

[VitaminR]

Pray tell, what useful discussion could have arisen from me going 'Vote Yos2- because the second part of a trilogy is usually the weakest' or some such? Random votes don't mean a damn thing.

It forces you to pick someone. Like it or not, that is information.

But the whole point was,

I didn't know whether he was serious or not!

When it became obvious he was joking, I dropped the matter.

True, but, for me, I can't know whether you dropped the matter because of that or whether it was a failed attempt to turn TCS' joke claim into something serious.

Er, perhaps because they have less experience of playing with TCS than you?

TCS has, to the best of my knowledge, never done anything comparable in the games I've been in with him.

I lean towards believing Arafax's claim at the moment. Claiming vampire seems a bit obvious for scum and AniX's claim really speaks in his favour. I agree with Yos that AniX should not nameclaim.

Also, TCS' idea of lynching one to confirm the other is really not a good one.

FOS: TCS

[VitaminR]

Are you talking about me?...If so, what was the "carp argument?"

*resists the urge to make a fishing pun*

[VitaminR]

As I say, no one acting in good faith could possibly believe the crap that VitR was spouting, that I was trying to set up a wagon on TCS.

Yay for attempting to understand both sides of a debate!

[VitaminR]

I agree with Crub on Sudo_Nym's post. Sudo has said a number of things like that which feel a bit off.

[VitaminR]

The Fonz, we don't need to have a Space Monkey on our hands at all (and I don't see why Mr. Flay would copy that idea blindly). That seems way too simple for what was supposed to be a complicated game.

BM claimed Star, a vampire who actually helped defeat the vampires in the film. That doesn't really work as back-up of your claim.

(Thank you, BM. I got this from a Wikipedia summary, you could have too.)

Unless you think BM is a traitor, that actually disconfirms the Space Monkey theory.

David, as far as I can tell (I haven't seen the film), was a far more important evil character.

Part of me feels like The Fonz is trying to sneak past us by taking advantage of earlier claims, but I'm not sure. I'd like to see his response.

[VitaminR]

I could see the TCS lynch earlier today, but the whole replacement thing is throwing me off.

[VitaminR]

If we turn out to have a recruiting mafia, I'd want to take a close look at Sir.Laggalot and Sudo_Nym. I don't like how they're assuming it to be the case.

For the moment, I see no real reason to assume we have one.

[VitaminR]

Not too enthusiastic about Mariyta wagon. As far as I can see, she's just been a bit inactive.

[VitaminR]

Heh, I admire your labyrinthine reasoning, but that relies on so many assumptions that are not particularly straightforward (that I am a part of a specifically non-vampire scum group, that I would then, instead of privately taking note who used the word "vampire," highlight it, that I would attempt to promote the idea of a vampire scum group despite the obvious eventual detrimental consequences of doing so) that I really don't see where you get the certainty to cast a vote.

[VitaminR]

Actually, that's a (supposed) scum tell people reference all the time, calling the scum group by their specific name rather then the general term "scum", on the theory that people in that group are more likely to do so then townies. For example, look at Kingmaker I, where at least one person was attacked (incorectly, as it turned out), for using the term "Assasin" rather then "scum", even though it specifically said in the mod post that the bad guys were "assasins". So your whole argument here, that "town wouldn't do that", is pretty deeply flawed from the start.

Ectomancer, I was actually in this game. I had a discussion about this tell with Fuldu in which I argued that it wasn't as significant as he made it out to be (I still think this, it's a small tell). I was the Kingmaker.

I think Ectomancer is making way too much out of this, but I don't think it's with bad intentions.

[VitaminR]

I'm going to go with a

Vote: Sudo_Nym

.

Not sure I like Pooky's Ecto vote. It's a bit opportunistic and I don't think all the flak Ectomancer is receiving is all that justified.

[VitaminR]

I think Sudo_Nym makes a good lynch candidate for his actions today and yesterday.

Your vote doesn't sit well with me. I'm making a note of that. I haven't seen enough of you to determine whether I'd want you lynched. I suppose you could take that as a FOS.

[VitaminR]

1. He offers the suggestion of lynching TCS. Not really a strong point, because he dismissed it fairly quickly.
2. Sudo_Nym sets out cases against Arafax, Indy and me, but never votes or FOSes any of these people. Instead, he jumps only on the Sir.Laggalot wagon.
3. Set-up/role speculation
4. Jumps on the Mariyta wagon.
5. Jumps on the TCS wagon.

It is mostly the fact that he has been building cases and showing suspicions himself, but his votes are all tag-along votes and specifically not on the people he seems to have his own suspicions of. Even his TinVision vote (the only non-random vote not mentioned above) only uses justification provided by HH earlier.

[VitaminR]

1. He offers the suggestion of lynching TCS. Not really a strong point, because he dismissed it fairly quickly.

This is more of a newbie thing. I figured that with a claimed day cop with two guilties, there was only one course of action- lynch him. I didn't know he was joking; I figured that he either had to be telling the truth, or a lying scum. The only way to know was to lynch him. If he's lying, then we've got a scum. If he's telling the truth, then we've got two scum. Trading two scum for a single townie is a ratio that can easily be ridden to victory.

As has been said, this was a dumb idea, which I myself acknowledge in the post itself. But I posted it anyway- maybe it wasn't dumb, or somebody would have a better suggestion or take on the whole thing. I won't learn anything if nobody corrects me, after all.

I know, I did say that wasn't a strong point. I think the fact that you acknowledged it may not be a good idea in the post itself speaks in your favour.

So it's a rule now? Setting out cases against people is suspicious if you don't follow through on them with a minimum FoS? Ever consider that, at the time, Lagg seemed more scummy to me in spite of any cases I laid out.

It is suspicious for two reasons:
1. It creates the impression that you're trying to cast suspicion on others without getting your hands dirty.
2. You didn't put the same amount of thought into the votes you did cast. That suggests to me (and this is my main point against you) that you were hiding behind the reasoning of others.

I repeat, what's wrong with this? It's easier (for me, anyway) to play in a game when I know more about it. Knowing whether it's a recruit or straight mafia seems like important information. Questioning down that route is forbidden? I'd think this would point town, actually- surely the scum would already know the format, or at least know it better than a townie.

The problem with that is that it allows scum to figure out more of the set-up than it allows town to. Speculating doesn't give the town any certainty, where it can tip off the scum to certain aspects of our roles. As a result, it is sometimes something scum does to gauge the responses of players they know to be town.

[VitaminR]

VitaminR, you

are

walking the line of trying to supress discussion. I understand your reluctance to speculate beyond a certain degree, but I still believe that tossing out possibilities that occurred to us early in the game is not bad information for us to share amongst ourselves. To be honest, if the scum group is the one I speculated(should we find a vampire cult), they would most certainly be tipped off already to the rest of it, so the rest of us also knowing that possibility wont give them a better advantage.

That rather depends on what you see as stifling discussion. I think speculating about the set-up is ultimately fruitless (we have very little certainty), but it also doesn't really help establish suspicions. Ultimately, I think set-up speculation suppresses more discussion (well, useful discussion) than it creates.

[VitaminR]

MoS, I posted one a couple of pages back. I think you even quoted it...

To be perfectly honest, I don't like dybeck's aggression here. Not saying his case against Ecto is baseless; just that he seems more forceful than is necessary.

I agree with this. I also don't like this justification:

If this was your intention, you're scum, otherwise, you're a moron. Either way, you're a liability.

Having said that, I feel Ecto and Mari's reasons for voting dybeck aren't that good and I'm not that enthusiastic about a wagon.

I'm starting to come around to a Mari wagon, but mostly I still like my Sudo vote.

[VitaminR]

I still like my Sudo vote. I agree with Ecto on Sir.Laggalot, although I can understand Yos' point of view.

[VitaminR]

Unvote, vote: GodofWine

I agree wholeheartedly with HackerHuck. Those quotes deserve explaining. GoW completely contradicts himself, and one of the two posts were complete bullshit (how were the other people more likely scum than The Fonz at that point, who was one of the main villains from the movie?). I will attempt to remember this case

I do agree with this and I don't mind a GodofWine lynch, but he's not my first choice at this point.

Welcome to the game, cicero. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[VitaminR]

Meh, I don't particularly buy that, TCS.

[VitaminR]

*agrees with TCS*

[VitaminR]

I'm not hiding. I can't think of anything to say.

Well, why don't you claim?

I think it's about time.

[VitaminR]

I believe GoW's claim. I think we should be looking elsewhere at the moment.

Btw, BM's claim isn't the same as everyone else's. Star is a good vampire in the film. She helps the good guys.

[VitaminR]

Ectomancer, I admit to sometimes skimming the posts of people I'm not worried about if they're long... sorry...

I really don't like BM's last post. It seems like a kneejerk jump on Ectomancer (joining the one person he's been calling scum all game).

I'm going to

Unvote: Sudo_Nym, Vote: Battle Mage

[VitaminR]

*sigh*

I guess I was wrong there. BM's claim seems to check out. I'm going to go back to my vote before that.

Unvote: Battle Mage,
Vote: Sudo_Nym

[VitaminR]

Woot, I was reading a great book all of yesterday so i had to catchup. Welcome Dasquian, (Yay, now i don't have to go back and reread why i had GoW's vote).

I am not liking BM's claim, Although i do believe that Star would be a role, the Mason thing is kinda weird. Having to find their partner seems kinda off to me.

So yea,

Vote BM

Don't like this at all. Sir.Lag, BM has claimed to have a mason partner who can confirm him. Scum doesn't do this, it's way too risky.

Sort of like Dasquian so far. He makes some good points.

[VitaminR]

Really like cicero's long post.

[VitaminR]

Pooky - posted very little. No scum hunting at all really. I'd definitely like to see more pressure here. Throwing votes around like candy and active lurking. Probably scum in this game. But that's because he generally looks like a quiet shifty little mastermind to me. Votes Ecto who I see as town. When he did speculate he got called on a mischaracterisation.

FOS: Pooky

to draw attention to the fact that the lurking problems some of you have with some people is much more prevalent with Pooky. So be consistent and thorough please. The one townie thing I saw was his reactions to Ecto and BM around August 31st. He certainly isn't necessarily the bad guy but I sure would love to have this game have the benefit of his vast experience. hint hint. His responses to me later are also inscrutible. (I wondered if he was just playing while really stoned, actually. lol.)

*goodposting*

Why has Pooky stayed under the radar? He's not being insightful-Pooky at all.

Unvote: Sudo_Nym,
Vote: PookyTheMagicalBear

[VitaminR]

BM, I've played enough games with Pooky to know he's not always like this. He may be absent generally, but he's a lot less antagonistic when town.

[VitaminR]

Hmm... okay, I suppose my most recent experience of him has mostly been in minis. He wasn't that helpful in Royal Family.

Unvote

for now.

[VitaminR]

AniX is in this game?

Wow.

[VitaminR]

I don't know, AniX has gone MIA like that in other large games I've been in with him.

[VitaminR]

The whole Arafax-AniX thing is not really substantial, to my mind.

The only thing that really pops out is this:

Ok well...

I am really not liking the pop out of lurk that AniX is doing.

When he said he had a similar role he didn't name claim which makes me suspicious along with his general lurking for extended periods I have to say I am liking AniX for the Cult Leader.

Vote: AniX

FOS: Sir.Laggalot

[VitaminR]

I don't think Dasquian is the right pick for today.

[VitaminR]

Let me get my head clear about this game.

The following seem obvious town:
Arafax
Dasquian
Mastermind of Sin
AniX
dybeck
Yosarian2
Ectomancer
VitaminR
cicero
Battle Mage

That leaves:
Sudo_Nym
HackerHuck
-TinVision-
PookyTheMagicalBear
scmp
Mariyta
The Central Scrutinizer
Crub
Sir.Laggalot

I'm leaning towards town on HackerHuck and Mariyta. I have no real reason to suspect scmp or Crub.

Sudo, TCS and Sir.Lag all strike me as suspicious on the one hand, but there are things that make me doubt that as well.

Pooky I haven't really seen enough by.

Vote: -TinVision-

[VitaminR]

Let me get my head clear about this game.

The following seem obvious town:
Arafax
Dasquian
Mastermind of Sin
AniX
dybeck
Yosarian2
Ectomancer
VitaminR
cicero
Battle Mage

That leaves:
Sudo_Nym
HackerHuck
-TinVision-
PookyTheMagicalBear
scmp
Mariyta
The Central Scrutinizer
Crub
Sir.Laggalot

I'm leaning towards town on HackerHuck and Mariyta. I have no real reason to suspect scmp or Crub.

Sudo, TCS and Sir.Lag all strike me as suspicious on the one hand, but there are things that make me doubt that as well.

Pooky I haven't really seen enough by.

Vote: -TinVision-

[VitaminR]

I honestly don't see why there's such a big wagon on dybeck. I think he's got an unusual playstyle which ruffles feathers but I don't think that's enough to lynch him.

*agrees*

Also agree with cicero that Arafax isn't a good lynch.

I will give a detailed answer to the TinVision question later.

[VitaminR]

I don't see the advantage to a mass claim at this point. Especally now that we've apparently got an outed cop, the *LAST* thing we want to do is to do anything that might help the scum figure out if there is a doc or not and who that person might be. Yes, we've already had several claims, but what's the advantage to getting more claims? Just so we can read the flavor of everyone's claim and hope that helps us?

I agree with Yos on this.

I'm voting TinVision mostly out of a process of elimination at the moment. I need to have a good look at this game soon.

[VitaminR]

Yosarian, I don't think we ask for TinVision's partner to claim to prove him anymore than we need to have BM's partner claim. To me, they are in the same boat, and saying that "Flay wouldnt do that" when talking about game mechanics, and then acting like that confirms a guilty is ridiculous action on speculation. (I realize Dybeck and BM believe that mechanic is some "proof" of guilt, not you Yosarian)

I agree with this completely. TinVision's claim makes me think I was wrong in pursuing him.

Unvote: -TinVision,
Vote: SirLaggalot

The newb defense is the only reason I haven't pushed for his lynch and it's starting to wear thin.

[VitaminR]

I agree with cicero here. We're getting some wagons through that have been long overdue. Even if we don't seem to have a great success rate, these things were going to come out in the long run anyway.

I'll put a vote on Sudo_Nym for the time being. I think it's a good wagon and dybeck hasn't particularly bothered me.

Unvote: Sir.Laggalot,
Vote: Sudo_Nym

[VitaminR]

He is still a claimed mason. I don't think we need to out his partner at this point.

Vote: Sudo_Nym

His lynch is long overdue.