'The Lost Boys' Mafia (Cry Little Sister, it's OVER!)

[Sudo_Nym]

/confirm

You people are strange

[Sudo_Nym]

vote: The Fonz

for messing up the tags.

[Sudo_Nym]

no reaction to my vicious assault on your character?

Eh. I've been called worse things by better people.

unvote, vote: crub

[Sudo_Nym]

So far as it goes, I don't know what Fonz is up to. The pressure he's applying seems akward at best.

The big question in my mind right now is whether TCS is honest or lying. Seems merely from a theory point of view, it might be worth it to lynch him and see just what is role is- if he's really a day cop, then we've got two confirmed vamps. Of course, this would likely be foolhardy, as there's a good chance he's telling a joke that I don't get. To each his own, I suppose.

[Sudo_Nym]

Now what? I post an honest opinion, and get slammed. Oh well. For all I know, he could be a "super daycop"- maybe his investigation restriction is based on times per game rather than times per day, which, while unlikely, is a possibility.

My "idea" of lynching him was a curiousity, not an actual suggestion- if you notice, I dismiss it almost immediately; the only reason I brought it up at all was it struck me as being useful to know whether or not he's telling the truth, and that's the quickest and most sure way I could think of, extreme though it may be.

[Sudo_Nym]

The seriousness with which I treat the post is more a function of the unknown roles- this is, to be honest, the first game I've played that could potentially feature roles beyond the basics. While I doubt any Daycop could investigate twice on the same day, I was entertaining the notion that he maybe had a certain number of day investigations he could use anytime during the game- for all I know, that could have been the case. However, this sentiment doesn't seem to be shared among those with more experience than I, so I'm more than willing to drop it, in which case it's prudent that I

unvote

.

[Sudo_Nym]

That being said, I would like to point out that the following think that it's a good idea to lynch TCS : Arafax, Sir.Lagalot, Sudo_Nym

I just want to clarify that I'm not strong one way or the other. Lynching TCS was merely a game-theory observation. That said, I'm not truly opposed, either- I have no evidence indicating which side he's on, and only a hunch that suggests he's scummy. Take that as you will.

[Sudo_Nym]

Man, this game is moving a lot faster than the newbie games.

Arafax seems to be digging himself in deeper and deeper, to be quite frank. Every post he makes to try and deflect away the attack looks worse than the ones that came before, though this observation was made, in a much briefer form, by at least BM, so I suppose I'm not breaking any new ground.

Lynch all liars doesn't seem like that bad an agenda, to me, so long as we can discern sarcasm from lies- why would a townie lie to other townies, when the only outcome is confusion? It seems like it would merely decrease the chances of the town pulling out a win.

[Sudo_Nym]

Does that post scream scum to anyone else?

Yes. Arafax's previous post didn't seem that "sad" to me. Of course, that post didn't really do much to convince me of Arafax's innocence, but Sir.Laggalot's response- that he's hoping it's not a scum bandwagon, but he's jumping on anyway, strikes me as being very odd.

vote" Laggsy

[Sudo_Nym]

Damn. I just checked in, noticed I screwed up the tags. Let's try this one more time:

vote: Laggsalot

[Sudo_Nym]

Wait- you expect us to believe, that you, Battle Mage, are in a strange mood? I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but I have a firm Lynch all Liars rule, you know...

[Sudo_Nym]

One player has really started catching my eye, here. Of course, I'm paranoid by my very nature, but anyway...

No Lynch benefits scum.

Quickly jumps on The Fonz for voting No Lynch during the random voting stage. While I agree the No Lynching on day one is almost always scummy, was there ever any real threat that a No Lynch would ever actually happen?

I have performance anxiety what with so many people.

Unvote

vote: TinVision

Why would you get performance anxiety during the random vote phase? And why bother unvoting there?

And... another reason to vote you.

Why exactly is this suspicion-raising? The Fonz's question seems perfectly legitimate to me.

While these are very opposed to it : Yosarian2, MoS, Tin-Vision, Pooky....I just wanted to get that out there.

Put me on that list too.

I don't see how anyone can take TCS' shtick seriously.

Actually, I don't have much problem with this, but computer problems made it difficult to format correctly, and I can't bring myself to delete it. Originally, I thought he was coming to TCS' defense rather fast, however, he's merely expressing his disbelief at TCS' claim, which is perfectly fine.

Does it strike anyone else that only two people have used the term "vampires?"

Sudo_Nym did it too a page ago, I think.

This has already been adressed, but vampires in place of a mafia should be fairly common sense. Flay did require you to watch the movie before signing up, didn't he? Seems like pretty thin grounds to launch an attack.

All told, VitaminR has raised my hackles, but looking back, he doesn't seem too terrible. This puts things into some perspective, but it seems like a colossal waste of time, space, and everybody else's reading through.

[Sudo_Nym]

Damn. While I hate to be referred to as a newbie, I do admit this is just my fourth game, which, while I of course believe that my logic is as good as anybody's, is probably more likely to go astry. This, naturally, is merely me indulging my natural verbosity.

[Sudo_Nym]

Hmm. I just noticed- Indy's last post is just his fifth in 9 pages- let's review them, shall we:

Post 1: confirms

Post 2: Random vote

Post 3: States that Arafax has read too far into TCS's joke (possibly true), and further, that he's trying to turn this into grounds for a lynch. Puts the FOS on 'Fax for this, but does not vote.

Post 4: Elaborates on his last point after Arafax calls for clarification. Doesn't state anything new- just reiterates that Arafax seems to have been pushing for a TCS lynch based on a joke. Claims that he won't vote until somebody else makes an analysis.

Post 5: Makes a mysterious switch from merely supporting the Arafax wagon to actually jumping on the Laggsy wagon. Only addresses Arafax, but his logic seems to be that because Arafax has been suspicious and backpedaling, it must be because some of the wagon is scum, so he "throws his vote elsewhere".

Indy has been weird. Most of his non-random posts, which is to say two of three of them, have been calling out Arafax for the TCS day-cop dibocle, but never votes for him. Then he claims that while he's still suspicious of Arafax, he's sure that some of the people on him are scum, so he votes Laggalot without ever explaining why he picked Laggalot, which raises a couple questions:

1. If Arafax was so suspicious for you, why didn't you vote him? You claimed at one point that you wouldn't make a definite decision until somebody else analyzed (which also seems scummy). Other players, some with tons of experience had talked about it, yet you still didn't do anything to say which side of the wagon you're on- it seems to me that you're attempting to give yourself wiggle room, so you can appear to have been on whichever side turns out to be better for you.

2. Why Laggalot? Is it because he's another wagoned guy?

[Sudo_Nym]

To be honest, I singled out Indy because he stook out as being suspicious. True, there is every chance he's just a newbie, and every chance that my suspicion is baseless. The way my mind works, it's easier if I focus on one person at a time in a post, and Indy was the one who struck me as being shady, so I decided to focus on him.

But you are right, a small number of posts is probably not the best basis for an attack.

[Sudo_Nym]

I would expect the vampires all to be scum, but that obviously can't be true- there are a number of vampires in the movie: Michael, Max, David, Paul, Dwayne, Marko, Star, and Laddie. That's eigth total, which is a little much for a 19 player game. Michael is the main character and hero of the movie, so he's likely town, taking us to seven. Star and Laddie are both good guys in the movie despite being vampires, so it's easy to imagine them as townies in the game, which takes us to five, which is still a little excessive for 19 players- so having one of the minor vampires as a townie despite being evil in the movie doesn't seem unlikely. Especially since Paul was, I believe, the very first vampire killed.

[Sudo_Nym]

I don't know what TCS is playing at- lynching a claimed vanilla has never been a good play for me (of course, I've never played with most of you, and never in a game this big). Lynching a claimed vanilla is certainly better than lynching a potential power-role, but seems to be more of any anti-lose move than a pro-win, if that makes any sense.

As for my post calling for TCS's lynch, I meant it would be foolish to lynch him for the daycop thing regardless. My idea about lynching him was a game-theory oddity, and I wanted to know what more experienced players thought. I've never played with a daycop of any sort, online or real life- and seeing whether or not he was telling the truth struck me as a good way of knowing whether his results are real- a confirmed cop with two guilties, even a dead one, strikes me as more valuable than an unknown quantity. After all, trading 1 townie for 2 scum is the kind of ratio we can ride to victory. However, that was all theory- I like to discuss theory, even when it has no practical value.

The practical play, should he have been serious, would have been to lynch one of the results, not the cop himself, which would preserve the cop's life for future investigations and confirm him at the same time. Note that I didn't vote for TCS himself, and dismissed the idea not once, but three times- once in the post, and again in two later posts. However, I did vote for crub- the first person he claimed he investigated. Theory is nice, but it's practicality that rules the day.

I've got sinking fears that none of this will solve anything.

[Sudo_Nym]

I have to agree that nameclaiming at this juncture is ill-advised, because it makes easy targets. Guys like Michael and the Frog Brothers are likely to have powerful pro-town abilities, and anyone who claims then is going to be a target for a nightkill. Of course, only they know what abilities they've got, but wouldn't it be common sense that the main characters would have good abilities?

[Sudo_Nym]

Completely subjective? I don't think it takes much guesswork to assume that Max and David are going to be scum, whereas Michael, Sam, Lucy, and The Frog Bros are going to be town. All I was saying was that name-claiming was bad. Everybody else says it, and its fine. I say it, and there's something off?

[Sudo_Nym]

you began speculating about names and their relations to roles

Seriously? That's the attack- that I speculated that the main characters are going to be pro-town, and that they have abilities? Sorry if I'm wrong, but that seems like something that's fairly commonsense- is it that big a stretch? If I wanted to get reactions from the discussion, wouldn't make more sense to post the message in the middle, or even the beginning of the conversation, instead of at the end? What point would there be to posting at the end of the conversation, if I wanted to gauge the reactions that occur within it?

[Sudo_Nym]

I don't want to seem scummy, but I agree with HH. Rampage just looked like he wanted any excuse to put a vote on me.

TinVision's vote is also off. He justifies my vote by saying that I'm trying to get people to claim. In fact, this is the exact opposite of my stated stance. If you'll notice, I said claiming would be a bad idea. Then TinVision votes for me because I want people to claim? That's just plain wrong.

The turn of events looks like TinVision wanted a way to start a wagon on me, and Rampage wanted any reason to jump on that wagon.

unvote, vote: TinVision

[Sudo_Nym]

Why would I want to do that, anyway ?

Why don't you tell me? I'm not psychic, after all. Maybe you're scum. Maybe you're town who thinks I'm scum, but you don't want to post more than one sentence at a time. Maybe you just wanted to start a wagon on somebody. Maybe it's something I haven't thought of.

[Sudo_Nym]

Hmmm. I don't know how many of you have seen the movie, and I don't know how helpful the wikipedia entry is, so allow a person whose seen the movie several dozen times muse on the roles:

Paul- evil vampire, but very minor character. In the tradition of theme games, it's possible he's been made town just to make the sides even.

Star- good vampire, main character's love interest.

David- evil vampire, main evil character for most of the movie. Unless this is a recruiting deal, I have extreme difficulty believing David is town.

[Sudo_Nym]

21st page and nowhere? I disagree- we're not nowhere, we're on the 21st page. And no, I don't plan to be anymore helpful on that point.

And why David moreso than any other vampire? Because David is the main antagonist for most of the movie. Why would the main evil character be among those shifted to good guys?

I'm torn here. On the one hand, I don't find The Fonz to be scummy. On the other, David strikes me as a guy who should be extremely scummy. I'd be for lynching TheFonz, just to get more information on the David role PM. If he's telling the truth, we'll know more about the particular brand of scum we're facing. But again, I can't bring myself to vote for TheFonz- I just don't find him to be scummy.

So I'll vote for someone I do find scummy.

Unvote, vote: Mariyata

. And before anybody asks, she got on my list for essentially lurking, and coming out of here hiding hole only to jump on two bandwagons.

[Sudo_Nym]

When David turned out to be town, that probably sealed the recruiting idea- we're now probably looking at Max + whoever was recruited for a two scum mafia.

I don't know whether Max is restricted to only vamp players or not, and I don't know how we could learn that, besides lynching somebody and seeing what happens. Obviously, the only players who know for sure aren't likely to tell us.

[Sudo_Nym]

I assume we have one because David turned out to be town. He's one of the top bad guys in the movie (until Max is revealed as the head, he his the bad guy), and I would assume he'd be a scum if the theme is following the movie at all.

Of course, I suppose it's also possible that Flay just threw all the names into a randomizer and assigned town/scum on that basis, but then why bother with the theme at all?

[Sudo_Nym]

When you get through sorting out Ecto's logic, Gordium has a knot you might want to look at. It seems that you see it's fragility too, so I won't harp on it.

I'm still puzzled by David turning out town. I thought for sure when the game started that the mafia would be the movie vamps- Max, David, Paul, Marko and Dwayne. But that's obviously not the case, so I'm trying to puzzle out where the good guy/bad guy line is, and I don't think I've got enough information to know with any certainty.

[Sudo_Nym]

So it's the Occam's Razor vote? I can't say I disagree- in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is the best, right? Like Einstein said- "State everything as simply as possible, but not more so." The good old fashioned approach is probably the best.

That said, I now have to find somebody to vote for. My suspicion of Maryta is gone- it was more of a lurking thing, it's time to move on for now. I think TCS is more likely. I think he's trying to draw attention to some possible setups, and away from others; afraid the town's getting too close?

vote: TCS

[Sudo_Nym]

Sudo's last two posts have simply been parrots of the post before his...

And the problem with that is? I realize that it isn't always helpful to repeat a post- and done too often, it looks scummy. But when I agree, I agree, and I don't hesitate to say so.

I haven't commented upon any setups. You, sir, are dramatically full of shit.

Much to my chagrin, this is true. I posted too late at night, and my head combined something TCS said with something MoS said. Obviously, that's not only wrong, but horribly unfair. An apology probably won't suffice, so for the mean time,

unvote

[Sudo_Nym]

I'm not sure why he's speculating so much and not trying to hunt down who might actually be scum - or the cult leader - or whoever he thinks is really against the town.

fixed quote tag - Flay

I'm not helpful? Granted, that's a decision that's external to myself, so I can't say whether I'm helpful or not.

But to actually suggest that I should be actively hunting rather than speculating is a little hypocritical. On day two, with only one death, and no definate knowledge of the game's format, I don't see how anything could be considered other than speculation. And yes, I do speculate on the game's nature, because knowing whether it's a cult situation or not would be useful. Of course, I can't know anything about that for sure right now.

How is it you plan to actively hunt scum, then, HH? We've got nothing but the info that David of all people was townie to start. The best anyone can do is look for information in somebody's posts. If that's honestly what you see when you suggest me- someone who's scum- then fine. But if you're voting just because I'm not marching to your tune, then I've got a problem. I'm doing the best I can.

If you want to hear what I think, then fine. The only person who stands out for me is Mariyta, but even then it's gut instinct; I'm not going to vote until I get something more solid than just instinct.

[Sudo_Nym]

I don't deny I've done some scummy things- looking back, I have to wonder what I was thinking. Some of them are undeniably the result of me still being new; but it would be folly to catergorize them all that way.

1. He offers the suggestion of lynching TCS. Not really a strong point, because he dismissed it fairly quickly.

This is more of a newbie thing. I figured that with a claimed day cop with two guilties, there was only one course of action- lynch him. I didn't know he was joking; I figured that he either had to be telling the truth, or a lying scum. The only way to know was to lynch him. If he's lying, then we've got a scum. If he's telling the truth, then we've got two scum. Trading two scum for a single townie is a ratio that can easily be ridden to victory.

As has been said, this was a dumb idea, which I myself acknowledge in the post itself. But I posted it anyway- maybe it wasn't dumb, or somebody would have a better suggestion or take on the whole thing. I won't learn anything if nobody corrects me, after all.

2. Sudo_Nym sets out cases against Arafax, Indy and me, but never votes or FOSes any of these people. Instead, he jumps only on the Sir.Laggalot wagon.

So it's a rule now? Setting out cases against people is suspicious if you don't follow through on them with a minimum FoS? Ever consider that, at the time, Lagg seemed more scummy to me in spite of any cases I laid out.

3. Set-up/role speculation

I repeat, what's wrong with this? It's easier (for me, anyway) to play in a game when I know more about it. Knowing whether it's a recruit or straight mafia seems like important information. Questioning down that route is forbidden? I'd think this would point town, actually- surely the scum would already know the format, or at least know it better than a townie.

4. Jumps on the Mariyta wagon.
5. Jumps on the TCS wagon.

I did jump on the Mariyta wagon near the end of day one. Admittedly, the feeling I got from her (and still get), was that she was a lurking scum. This is a different level than I usually play on, so maybe things work different. But I was hoping that additional votes would prompt her to post, and they did. Besides, is there any real chance she would have been lynched day one, considering the size and momentum of the Fonz wagon?

As for the TCS wagon, you'll notice that I also jumped off it in short order. Getting on it in the first place was a mistake I made- like I said when I retracted the vote, I combined something TCS said with something MoS said, and the combo seemed very scummy to me. Obviously, that's incorrect, and I retracted my vote as soon as I realized what I did (and getting called on it by TCS, who rightly called me full of shit in this instance). I do realize I brought this on myself; and there's nothing I can do to take it back.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sorry, I've been drowning. I've struggled to keep up with my other games (and almost failing), and I've been just managing to read this one. So let's try to post something.

To be perfectly honest, I don't like dybeck's aggression here. Not saying his case against Ecto is baseless; just that he seems more forceful than is necessary.

That said, Ecto does seem strange. Granted, the only game I've played with him was a newbie, so that might account for the difference's I'm seeing.

Now that I think about it, that's not helpful at all.

Crub pops up in an awkward place to defend dybeck, but again, it doesn't seem scummy. I'm also feeling pretty good about BM right now.

I'm still on the fence about Mariyta, but it's mostly a gut feeling now. Practically everybody, including myself, has lurked for an extended period at some point, so this isn't a solid indication of anything, really. I suppose it's only because it seems like she's been gone the longest without a replacement. But I suppose I'm not really one to talk.

[Sudo_Nym]

Also, I can't help but think that:

"He normally speculates alot and comes up with warped conclusions"- Ectomancer

would make a great addition to my signature.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sudo is scum

You seem awfully sure of yourself. And while I can't affect your feeling or "knowledge", I can't help but disagree.

What have I done? Speculate about the game? Wonder about game theory? Agree with other posters? And that's enough to say "This guy has to go?"

[Sudo_Nym]

When you put it all nice and concise like that,
unvote, vote: Sir.Laggalot

Hell, if I did this, I'd have people jumping down my throat. He quickly jumps on Laggsy, just like he jumped on Amb. In fact, his attack on Amb came 3 posts after his initial vote- he votes Amb, then attacks Albert and Maryta. Then he ditches to hammer TheFonz after saying that he doesn't find him scummy? I'm seeing a pattern, and not one that I like.

vote: GodofWine

[Sudo_Nym]

Hey guys. Just letting you know I'm still here. Just don't have anything new to say right at the mo'.

[Sudo_Nym]

No, I really don't. What does "The Case for GodofWine" mean?

[Sudo_Nym]

Or it's just as likely that it's simply a matter of the mod designing the game to be mass-claim-proof by giving some townies rolenames like that.

I can't believe I never thought of that myself. That's actually a really good point, but it doesn't particularly alter who I see as suspicious. Chalk up a new learnin' experience for the still-relatively-new player.

[Sudo_Nym]

Damn. All I said was that I learned something new. That's not bad, is it? I'm not playing any kind of "card", and the whole thing seems like a reach for a reason to restart the bandwagon on me. I just meant that the point hadn't occured to me before, likely due to my lack of experience.

[Sudo_Nym]

You know something we don't, Laggsy?

[Sudo_Nym]

but Im wondering what the odds were of this many early claims being from that particular group.

This is exactly what I'm considering. We've had many claims now, and all of them have come from this exact group. We've had David, Marko, and Star all claim- but no Frog brother, or Grandpa, or anybody who isn't a vampire. And all GoW's Marko claim used the same language- "vampire in the movie, but not in the game." Either GoW is lying and nobody wants to counterclaim after the David fiasco, or it's worded exactly that way in their PMs. I might be overlooking something, but those are the two options that make the most sense to me.

[Sudo_Nym]

That is extremely nice right there, Mariyta. I admit, I once thought you were a bit shady yourself, but I suppose just inactivity in a game rife with it isn't a fair or accurate measure of anything.

Also, I'm getting even more red flags of GoW (now Dasquin). Seems like a strange time to quit- couldn't handle the pressure, perhaps?

[Sudo_Nym]

I'd like to hear something from Sudo_Nym too, since he's top of my list.

I'm on top of a lot of people's lists.

I have nothing to say; everything I'd care to say has been said by others. And last time I repeated somebody, all I got was "OMG! PARROT SCUM!" and I'd rather not relive that, thanks.

[Sudo_Nym]

I thought Sudo_Nym was a sure bet. He was really scummy and has been lurking up a storm. In fact, when I called him out and wanted to hear something from him, he basically said 'don't wanna' and went back to lurking.

What did you want me to do? Fold under pressure, start dancing to your tune? Sorry to disappoint. As so far as acting "really scummy" goes, a cursory glance at the vote totals would indicate that most people don't feel that way; at least, not anymore. Several people never thought I was scummy, and many of those who did have changed their minds. One would think this was a natural part of the game, and yet you seem so disappointed by the whole thing.

And really, what is so scummy about me, Dasquin? That I talked of theory and potential setups, rather than hurling around suspicions? That hardly seems like any crime; perhaps in my relative newbieness, I made a few mistakes- but that's a part of being a human, not scum. And sure, there were times when I repeated arguments laid out by (admittedly better) players before me. I can see how the "scum-parrot" argument can be drawn out- but what's the lesson here? That I shouldn't agree with others, or that if I do, I should keep it to myself? And lurking? There are many players in this game that that argument could be hurled at, so I fail to see its relevance.

Maybe it's due to my own lack of impartiality about my guilt, but they had better evidence at the Salem Witch Trials. Maybe next you'd like to test whether I weigh the same as a duck, mayhap?

[Sudo_Nym]

I don't care that he didn't get it. I do care that his response is to suggest lynching a day-cop. That's scummy - more so if he didn't get the joke, because he's still suggesting it for real.

Did you even read the post in which I said that? If you did, you would have noticed that immediately afterwards,

in the very same post

I dismissed as being a bad idea. Okay, so maybe I delved into game theory instead of realistic behavior, and the result was a scummy statement; I grant that. However, we've hashed this over a dozen times already, and everybody but yourself has decided to let it go. Is there something here that you refuse to understand? I get the feeling that it's gone beyond attempted scum-hunting; now you're just being deliberately unhelpful. But then, there's every chance I wouldn't be so annoyed if you were attacking somebody else.

[Sudo_Nym]

I don't wanna seem scummy, but I gotta admit, Tinvision makes a good point. I'm keeping my vote on Dasquin, but TCS seems like a good alternate.

[Sudo_Nym]

I've been thinking (in college, during class, natch), and maybe we should considering using Occam's Razor here, in absence of more pressing information. Since we can't know whether we've actually got a cult or if the mafia is just a different group, shouldn't we just go with what seems easiest? The easiest solution seems to be a mafia group that isn't the vampires, and the night one could easily have been a doctor.

This whole thing came to me after Pooky's comment; it doesn't seem likely that Flay would have designed a game that could have ended on a lucky day one lynch.

[Sudo_Nym]

Well, I wouldn't say that the main characters had a cult, so much as a gang. And nobody dying last night could have been a lucky guess by a doctor. Though Max as the vampire version of a GF would seem to be a no-brainer.

The random assortment of characters for the mafia is an interesting idea- the Frog Brothers as the mafia is a strange thought, but not beyond the realm of possibility.

[Sudo_Nym]

First of all, sorry I've been away. I have been reading, but I got frustrated and alot of other things. I actually wrote up a lot of posts, but I was always afraid I'd wind up lynched for it, so I kept canceling them all.

The truth is, at this point, I don't know what to think. I trust mariyata's claim, and dybeck seems most likely to be a scum of those with more than one vote.

I loved the theme, and thought I'd to better, but I seem to be drowning a bit against more experienced players.

[Sudo_Nym]

Well, I don't know how influential it'll be, but recent events have made me re-evaluate, and I don't believe Dasquin is scum (or at least, not as scummy). So,

unvote

.

[Sudo_Nym]

Say it's the pot calling the kettle black, but I'm willing to go along with Tinvision's idea.

vote: Sir. Laggsalot

[Sudo_Nym]

Well, Tinnie's claim is good enough for me.

And Ectina (and a number of others) are right- 1-of votes just make things harder for the town.

unvote, vote:dybeck

Gotta go with a solid second choice.

[Sudo_Nym]

At this point, it becomes hard to assume any other...

[Sudo_Nym]

The real question about the setup should be: just how devious is Flay willing to be? Then the option that best fits on his spectrum would likely be the best bet.

Other than that, I have to say that this whole setup seems to be way out of my depth.

[Sudo_Nym]

I hate to parrot anybody, but cicero seems very suspect. As Yossie has pointed out, his arguments hold water as efficiently as a sieve. If he had presented them as a defense of himself, I might think differently. But instead he uses them to "prove" Yos's guilt, which strikes me as being, not just warped, but totally bent.

I'm thinking

vote: cicero

[Sudo_Nym]

Battlemage has always been weird. Why should here be any different? A lot of his early strangeness seems to stem from a lack of understanding about the Lost Boys theme. Overall, he doesn't seem too bad to me; though I have trouble believing there are two independent mason groups, but that doesn't mean that there aren't. My major question is, at what point does he get the idea that he's a confirmed innocent?

And cicero, I like the effort, and you make some good points on Yossie. But the first half: you do realize that it's logically impossible to prove that you're innocent, right? You can trumpet the traits that you believe make you a certified townie, but that doesn't make them mean any more to anyone outside of yourself- and the way that you try to hold them up for all to see seems a little flat. Strikes me not unlike a man running for office, insisting that everything he's ever done is self-evident proof that he's the best thing around.

[Sudo_Nym]

As a man who spouts off his share of bad theories, I can't help but feel for Satael here- though I would recommend that, if you're gonna post theories, be ready to have them slammed back in your face at some point.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sudo_Nym admits that his role is in no way connected to the sinking ship that is BM.

[Sudo_Nym]

No offense, Ecto, but you really seem to be reaching for a reason to continue the attack.

[Sudo_Nym]

Ecto, the problem I had with your logic is that it

had

to be a fake claim; it felt to me like you were trying to twist HH's words so that they weren't really mason partners. That's not to say the claim isn't fake; I don't know if BM is the type of person to fake a claim like that, so it's totally possible that they're scum together, or HH is taking advantage of meta-information on BM. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just didn't like the angle you took. HH and BM have been under suspicion during this game, and I have trouble believing that the best attack on the claims is to try to pull some significance from the fact that HH didn't specifically say he was Star's mason partner after the possibilities were narrowed to two.

[Sudo_Nym]

Hey. Just got off a 96 hour turkey and pie bender. Will finish reading after sleep.

[Sudo_Nym]

I'm going to

unvote

for now. cicero doesn't seem as likely a candidate right now.

[Sudo_Nym]

Yeah, I've seen the movie a dozen times, and there's no mayor anywhere.

As for me unvoting cicero, it was mostly instinct. He's still on my list, he just doesn't seem like the lynch for today. I didn't vote for someone else because my unvote made Peers the deadline lynch- voting for anyone but Peers would have taken him back outside the lynch zone again (the lynch zone defined as having at least half of all cast votes, natch).

To be honest, between working and school and studying for finals, I haven't been able to analyze the game to the depth I would like.

Also, Ecto- is that Depeche Mode in your sig line? Didn't see it 'til now...

[Sudo_Nym]

I'm fine with claiming if that's what you want. I admit that I've somewhat overextended myself on the online gaming; I've been reading the game, just not posting.

[Sudo_Nym]

I didn't claim previously because I thought there were worries about the order they were in. If the order doesn't matter, then I'm Grandpa. I'm a bomb; anyone killing me dies with me. Once per game, I can lend this protection to another player.

[Sudo_Nym]

[quote="BM.. heh heh, BM...]

I didn't claim previously because I thought there were worries about the order they were in. If the order doesn't matter, then I'm Grandpa. I'm a bomb; anyone killing me dies with me. Once per game, I can lend this protection to another player.

that includes lynch and NK?
[/quote]

I don't seem to have the role PM in my inbox anymore; but from what I remember, it only triggers on NKs.

[Sudo_Nym]

Stupid quote tags...

[Sudo_Nym]

I'm sorry, everyone. Being gone a month is inexcusable, I know. But I've been having a hell of a time trying to keep up with this many people, and between that and the dreaded Grey Screen, coming up with anything to post has been a bitch.