SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Imperium]

Let's flesh out this TWIE read before talking about anything else.

[Imperium]

I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."

Carry on.

So what's your read on TWIE?

You didn't respond, buddy.

I was waiting for you to bring up your "softclaimed for Skybird" point - is this you ceding it's utterly irrelevant?

I wanted to discuss one thing at a time since you're bad at responding to things I bring up.

Is there a reason we can't talk about this point, or...?

[Imperium]

I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."

Carry on.

Could you please explain why you disagree with this, TSO?

[Imperium]

I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."

Carry on.

Could you please explain why you disagree with this, TSO?

Because it's fundamentally wrong?

This is a non-answer. Could you please respond to my post with a post that refutes its reasoning??

[Imperium]

I am well out of this game at the moment.

I apologise.

Vote TSO!

[Imperium]

I can live with that, mastin. We just aren't syncing this game.

[Imperium]

I guess the only thing left for me isVOTE: TSO

Rejoice Zlink

Thank you, beautiful prince.

[Imperium]

I can live with that, mastin. We just aren't syncing this game.

But actually, we don't have to live with that. I don't want to have to live with that. I know you can't see it and I know you can't fully trust it, but this game makes me feel tired. This game makes me feel drained and I hate posting it because I know I won't be able to make myself a priority nightkill even though I'm screaming and pleading for death because I'm just not good enough to turn on being a good player when I want to, I just need to play it naturally, not stress about when I'm wrong, not give in to added pressure to go from good to great when I'm right.

I didn't understand until very recently why we've been so off lately, but I think a large part of it has been my approach to you: ironically enough, I've been thinking you were being uncharacteristically self-centered and weren't working with me over frustration over D1, but nope that's not it at all, I never actually considered what was going through your head and I'm sorry for that, but I think I have a better understanding now and I would be much happier if we could actually mesh for once.

[Imperium]

And you know what? I respect you as a player and I trust you to be right. I will respect you as a player and I will continue to trust you to be right regardless of what happens this game, next game, game after that: because I know what you're capable of, I know what you've done to earn your reputation, and you've earned it.

And I know this is strange and oddly timed and poorly worded, but this is a revelation I've made based on my own recent streak of "meh" games and I wanted to get it out before I went to sleep.

[Imperium]

And yeah, okay, I don't have some amazing knock-em dead case on TSO-scum. The things I've pointed out could probably come from TSO-town or TSO-scum. But I

feel

good about this lynch, and I feel in my heart that he's going to flip scum. And I want to earn your trust again, I know I deserved to lose it but this is me fighting to earn it again. Please, give me a chance. And I know everyone else is going to make fun of me making a bunch of posts like I'm drunk as fuck or something but I have a feeling and a hope that you'll understand this, so please show me I'm not crazy!!!

[Imperium]

I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."

Carry on.

Could you please explain why you disagree with this, TSO?

Because it's fundamentally wrong?

This is a non-answer. Could you please respond to my post with a post that refutes its reasoning??

Because you are assuming that newb-scum have this gigantic block in their head that prevents them from thinking this, and I don't.

And I believe this because... it's impossible for scum to confirm themselves as town. Generally people don't believe in things that are impossible: why would newb-scum suddenly feel different?

That's what I'm attempting to get you to respond to here.

[Imperium]

We know that Blonde, or TWIE now, cannot actually confirm themselves. So, we know Blonde misinterpreted their role. The only question left is if Blonde-town is more likely to misinterpret their role than Blonde-scum.

I propose, this game being role madness, there is no reason to think that.

This still stands.

It still comically misses the point.

[Imperium]

Come on TSO, this is one point. We have to get through the whole TWIE case, remember?

[Imperium]

Yeah, but I think #7757 did a pretty good job of negating that point!

I would like you to explain vezoks motivations in claiming to save his partner day two in the way he did. Note: I never believed he was the cause for the missing night kill night one, but the way in which he did it didn't sound to me like someone going oh hey partner I saved you wink wink.

really? you don't really have to go that far out on a limb for this.

pretty much imp's rebuttal is "nuh uh" which i don't find particularly compelling.

at this point, i think they're just giving vezok the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things b/c they want this tso thing to go though.

This is the part that's frustrating to me. I feel that right here, you've ignored my arguments completely whereas I don't feel I've ignored yours.

I'd also disagree with the second statement: what have I given Vezok the benefit of the doubt about, exactly?

[Imperium]

Let me lay this out so you can follow it easily:

It may be impossible for scum to confirm themselves as town.
It is not impossible, for newbscum in role madness, to

think

they can confirm themselves as town.

What sort of role exists that could make newb-scum think they can confirm themselves as town?

[Imperium]

That's not my job - speculating on that leads nowhere, as we don't know. There are plenty of roles in this game that, to the inexperienced eye, could confirm them as town. Mine. F-16's. Others.

Remember, this point is about TWIE-town. I'm proving that that action has a scum scenario as well as a town one. That means you're going to have to re-analyse your TWIE read (or not - I'm sure people will notice that though!)

Now, you're right, we do need to move on to the rest of the case - can you get to that instead of arguing rubbish? That'd be great.

It's so awkward when your mislynch target starts pointing out your read flaws, isn't it?

How is F-16's role something that newbscum would think confirms themselves? Remember, things like "vig kill --> confirmed town" are very specific mafiascum meta assumptions and a newbie wouldn't hold the same belief.

You pointed out a scum scenario. I pointed out a town one. This is true. I pointed out why your scum scenario is unlikely (scum wouldn't believe they could confirm themselves as town because that scenario is impossible and there's no reason for anyone to believe that unless some ambiguous weird role interaction exists and would be talked about in a role PM that I just don't know about). I made a claim, I provided evidence. Now I'm hoping you will provide a claim AND evidence (shown me what role I'm thinking incorrectly about, explain why it makes sense to believe a completely impossible thing and then claim that completely impossible thing without clearing it through scumbuddies first), so we can move on.

[Imperium]

I didn't provide a claim?

[Imperium]

What do you have interest discussing, TSO? It's not very fun talking with someone who suddenly disappears every time a hard question is asked :/

[Imperium]

Nothing I say is getting through, whatsoever, and this is not down to me simply selling it badly - you're just arguing for the sake of it.

You are correct: it's not because you're selling it badly. It's because you aren't selling it.

[Imperium]

What do you have interest discussing, TSO? It's not very fun talking with someone who suddenly disappears every time a hard question is asked :/

Why do you have this tendency, exactly? I understand why in this specific scenario, but then there's things like the earlier case against you that you just flat out ignored even though they seemed like valid rebuttals.

You say it's because you don't "care" about the arguments, but you get far more passionate in response to arguments you think are bad and have happily responded to those, so I don't actually think that's the case.

[Imperium]

Okay, then run through your TSO read slowly for me.

What reads does he have?

[Imperium]

There was a specific reason I asked Drixx that question. I would still like Drixx to answer that question.

[Imperium]

How is F-16's role something that newbscum would think confirms themselves? Remember, things like "vig kill --> confirmed town" are very specific mafiascum meta assumptions and a newbie wouldn't hold the same belief.

It's precisely because Blonde is a newbie and unused to MafiaScum meta assumptions that this entire scenario becomes possible. Blonde doesn't have to actually be able to confirm himself as scum. He just needs to think he can. If he was experienced, this wouldn't have happened.

Okay. So you believe that Blonde as scum would genuinely believe that he could fake confirm himself as town in the game thread. You think this is a likely scenario because he's unfamiliar with Mafiascum meta and wouldn't understand what "confirming" actually meant. You believe this is corroborated based on TWIE not having a role he could use to confirm himself immediately.

I believe that Blonde as scum wouldn't believe he could confirm himself as town because that scenario (scum confirming themselves as town) is impossible because confirming yourself as town means showing that you are town 100% (or unhealthilty close to it) and that's impossible when you are scum because that's how games work. I believe it is unlikely for him to believe he was confirmed town and say it in thread because that's the type of thing you mention to your scumpartners before you claim it and I simply can't comprehend a role scum could possess that would make newb-scum think that they are town.

I don't think there are any significant points that can sway one side strongly towards the other. I'm happy with an agree to disagree here, but it doesn't mean my side is absolutely irrelevant or trash because you don't agree with it, since you couldn't refute my logic definitively.

[Imperium]

You pointed out a scum scenario. I pointed out a town one. This is true. I pointed out why your scum scenario is unlikely (scum wouldn't believe they could confirm themselves as town because that scenario is impossible and there's no reason for anyone to believe that unless some ambiguous weird role interaction exists and would be talked about in a role PM that I just don't know about).

This is where you start to fall off the rails and sound illogical. You keep tossing in words like "impossible" when not only is what I'm proposing not impossible, it's barely even implausible. When you start saying things like this, I begin to feel I'd be best peddling my wares elsewhere because you're either scum or town with a completely closed mind, which is probably more dangerous than the former.

Confirmed town means that a player can not be scum. It is impossible to be confirmed town and also scum. I don't understand what's difficult to understand about this point in particular.

[Imperium]

I am not "running away when hard questions are asked". I'm questioning whether my free time is worth spending on this game where I am the de facto lynch today for reasons which are not particularly compelling.

You've invested a considerable amount of time into the game already. You've chosen to respond to the lurking accusation, you've responded to what you thought was a "your play looks like this one" accusation: you clearly don't mind responding to arguments you think are bad. So why have you ignored the arguments you have? Is your free time only worth responding to bad points and not good ones?

[Imperium]

You're so busy pushing my lynch through and attempting to gather momentum I'm working on derailing that you can't actually take on board what I am saying about TWIE/vezok to be true or acknowledge it as being true, because to do so would derail my wagon even further. You can deny that, but it is 100% true.

You haven't said anything about vezok except what I've proven (yes, proven) to be stupid. We are talking about TWIE now, but you also haven't really said anything about him except for the hypocritical lylo thing and that reason didn't exactly excite me.

[Imperium]

also, gotta' love that you're calling for our vig based on an associative even though you said you don't think tso is scum

I don't think it's an unreasonable to assume that vezok developed a scum read on TSO when TSO started pushing him, especially considering the only reason he suspects you is because you're pushing him.

[Imperium]

That's another example of vezok's reads being completely fucking false, but I'm sure Imperium can justify it.

The associative thing?
I thought you thought vezok was scumreading you? A couple of your posts certainly imply it.

[Imperium]

You're so busy pushing my lynch through and attempting to gather momentum I'm working on derailing that you can't actually take on board what I am saying about TWIE/vezok to be true or acknowledge it as being true, because to do so would derail my wagon even further. You can deny that, but it is 100% true.

You haven't said anything about vezok except what I've proven (yes, proven) to be stupid. We are talking about TWIE now, but you also haven't really said anything about him except for the hypocritical lylo thing and that reason didn't exactly excite me.

The point ended up coming to a standstill, but the fact is vezok did protect Cephrir n1.

I've seen it said somewhere this was a Rolestopper - if anything, this implicates vezok more heavily, given that Cephrir alone of the flipped scum could really really not afford to be tracked etc.

Why is vezok town again? Indulge me.

I will be happy to address this once we're done talking about TWIE. I feel this style has gotten closer resolution more than anything else ever has, so I'm probably going to stick with it.

[Imperium]

I know you can't see it and I know you can't fully trust it, but this game makes me feel tired.

Funny, I'm the same way.

Entirely different causes, but I do understand this much, I assure you, because I know where you're coming from even if the why is different.

I would be much happier if we could actually mesh for once.

I'd love that, too. I don't think we can make it happen today, though, to be perfectly honest. I'd love it if it could, but at this stage, I just think that we need a flip one way or the other.

I think we can. I'm willing to do anything in my power to get us closer to that point: all you have to do is let me know what I can do.

[Imperium]

When I called vezok out on it, in #7693, he said he was not expecting me to flip scum.

If his view has changed, it hasn't been particularly well documented in his ISO, given #7693 was his sixth-last post or so.

That's fair. I think I know where he's coming from, but would rather he explain it.

[Imperium]

But I

feel

good about this lynch, and I feel in my heart that he's going to flip scum.

And I have no feelings about it other than a feeling that I want to stay off the wagon for some reason.

Please, give me a chance.

I am--I'm not fighting the lynch. That's what I'd be doing if I wasn't placing faith in you already. I'd be fighting you right now, trying to defend TSO. But I'm not.

I just...don't think that I can allow myself to join you on it. I'm sorry, but I can't muster up the will. I understand your feeling. I want to trust it. But my own feeling keeps me from just pressing the vote (or even bold) tags with TSO's name in them.

And now instead of you being the crazy one, I am.

You're not crazy: that makes a lot of sense, I understand that actually getting in the wagon would be a big step and I don't mind you not being on it, I just want your approval before the lynch, and I feel I have that. I do think the game will be more straightforward once we have another flip and the result of your bees, and hopefully those things can get us on the same page if not end the game outright.

[Imperium]

There was a specific reason I asked Drixx that question. I would still like Drixx to answer that question.

I have a feeling I'm going to be underwhelmed at a rehash of a reason you're scumreading me, but go for it.

So why have you ignored the arguments you have? Is your free time only worth responding to bad points and not good ones?

I cannot respond to all the arguments calling me scum. I see no reason to think addressing these arguments, convincingly or not, will have any effect on the vast majority of the playerbase. So I choose to allot my time to scumhunting rather than defending myself.

Defending myself in this game is the nature equivalent of retreating to my tortoise shell, inviting in the predators, while birds of prey like you and ZeL1nk soar around in the air. I'm putting up significant resistance, it's taking a damn long time, but in the bitter end, due to circumstances the final result remains the same.

Scumhunting, however, is like the tortoise coming back out of its shell gripping a Magnum revolver - it might not be able to down the birds but it'll do its best to tear some fucking holes in their wings before it goes down, fighting like all good tortoises should.

I don't understand why you chose the arguments you chose to respond to: it felt like you chose arguments that had pretty obvious responses and ignored ones that weren't so open and shut. I understand why you don't respond to all of them, just wondering why you chose to ignore the ones you did.

[Imperium]

also, gotta' love that you're calling for our vig based on an associative even though you said you don't think tso is scum

I don't think it's an unreasonable to assume that vezok developed a scum read on TSO when TSO started pushing him, especially considering the only reason he suspects you is because you're pushing him.

Actually, I do think it's pretty unreasonable.

The much more accessible theory here is us being scum is that TSO is town and we're scum whiteknighting him right now for town cred when he flips.

I'm saying that was a reasonable explanation for vezok finding TSO scum: when TSO pointed out that explanation was wrong, I shut up.

[Imperium]

"In your last post you used the phrase hard scumreading, but in this post, you used the phrase scumreading."

^^^this is an actual point that was made in this game

[Imperium]

probably not the right answer there

[Imperium]

[Imperium]

It's you taking the inflection wrong, sweetheart.

I don't think the inflection exists that could make that point a good one.

[Imperium]

Someone bring me up to date. My neighbourhood is as hard to read as the main thread right now.

Espy.

[Imperium]

Espy we should dance

[Imperium]

good work espeonage

[Imperium]

Ok, I like dancing under certain circumstances.

Ha worked it out.

I feel like this is a dance my no rhythm having self could do!

[Imperium]

Soooooooooooooo

Heartless

Hey heartless

Yeah, you

Is there a reason why you throw out statements, but when I ask you to explain or articulate why you think things you stick your fingers in your ears and go lala lalala, and ignore it but spend most of your time trying to poke holes in others thoughts without actually saying why you think the alternative is more likely?

I'm seeing you saying a bunch of stuff, using words that demonstrate you actually do know how to think and construct thoughts, but I not actually seeing much in the way of actuslly trying to solve the game.

IF you guys are actually town, color me a whole crayon box full of disappointed.

[Imperium]

There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.

It's not particularly synergistic nor is there a notable degree of interaction in the main thread.

It doesn't look like a town bloc, swim like a town bloc, or quack like a town bloc.

I'd also like to talk about this.

I asked you to tell me how much skepticism you think you should be seeing that you're not seeing. I don't know why you ignored that.

I'd also like to talk about the second point. Nacho did a good job of pointing out that this is incorrect, but I'm interested in talking to you about the impetus behind the claim.

Until falcon was modkilled there was plenty, and more than I'd have liked interaction between the two of us.

As for the others. Are you actually making a claim we, as a neighborhood, aren't interacting enough? You do realize that we are the only slot in the neighborhood not to have been replaced right? How much interaction did you suppose we should have done with bitmap when he portaled day one and lurked then got replaced day two? Or TD who lurked a lot then got replaced?

and considering we have a neighborhood where we can interact, I don't see why us not overly interacting inn the main thread would be an issue. How much in the main thread interaction have you or anyone really been doing in the main thread.

I also don't get the town block accusation. We never claimed to be a town block. I, in particular, don't advocate town blocks in the first place. You can town read someone and not be in a town block. Zelink and U.S. seem to be on the same page, but not exactly sure where espy stands as he's a bit behind.

Do you want is to have skepticism or do you want us to be a town block? And there are neighborhoods here who are claiming all town neighborhoods with a much higher degree than we are, and they're not town blocking, so some of this feels like kitchen sink for the sole purpose of making arguments against us but that don't really make a whole lot of sense when looked at in context.

You might not feel this way any more, and that's cool, but I still want you to explain where you were coming from because I'm trying like hell to get a read on you.

[Imperium]

Hes a pretty smart guy!

[Imperium]

I'm disappointed that I've seen (I think?) tth post on site and it looks like I'll be ignored again. See this is why it's not worth it to put yourself out there because rejection sucks!

Skybird - you'll find a friend in zelink on the snowflake issue.

Also, this head (nacho, obviously) really just posted to post and spite magua *tonguewag* and also cuz I'm excited as fuck that I scheduled my defense today.

Oh twie is still probably town, aceofspades isn't. Oh oh oh you want further proof aceofspades is not town? Who argued against his lynch day one and came up with a really good reason he was town day two? Me...nacho...because I can't help but derail scum wagons and town read people for silly shit!

[Imperium]

I, nacho, have some doubts. I can't help what a waffler I am though.

Tammys keeping me in check and demands we keep our vote there and look for no alternatives. But, you know what a tunneler she is. Also, not about to fight the issue with her, have you ever seen her rage? Scarey.

[Imperium]

If you're suggesting something illegal, you should wait for Tammy. She's the rebel. I'd never do a signature bet, hypothetical or otherwise because RULES ARE RULES.

You can tell me who you think is scum though!

I can make Tammy draw you a pretty picture on paint if you're toen though!

[Imperium]

Don't waste your fucking vig shot on me, it doesn't work. Lynch me and shoot TWIE.

I am warning you, my lynch isn't going to work. Do not target me with that ability.

This is not bravado.

FUCK YOU YOU SON OF A BITCH I AM BANANA SAM AND BANANA SAM LISTENS TO NO MAN AND DEFINITELY NOT SOME FUCKING MACHINE

[Imperium]

do you just stalk the thread and wait for people to mention suspicion of you to post?

[Imperium]

What happened to TSO's scum read of me. I feel forgotten. I hate feeling forgotten about.

[Imperium]

TWIE please?

[Imperium]

Espy I'm really really really sure zelink is town.

I'll eat my hat if he's not.

[Imperium]

Espy I'm really really really sure zelink is town.

I'll eat my hat if he's not.

Will you want some mustard with that? Regular or horshradish hot?

(I'm not actually convinced Zelink is scum but ... my gosh there is some scummy mcscumerson posts out of him today).

I'll even put ketchup on it, and I don't like ketchup.

[Imperium]

That's my thought. I'm looking at tso, heartless, taos

[Imperium]

Vote: theaceofspades

[Imperium]

who isn't a mislynch?

[Imperium]

[Imperium]

So you think Imperium, my master, the scum lord, the slayer of innocents and defiler of all that is sacred and town, has a grand plan that involves not wanting to get rid of a potential threat and would rather push a mislynch on a useless slot?

Who's the scum team, again? And why are they not better lynches?

Your loyalty will not go unrewarded.

[Imperium]

the flipless circlejerk continues...

can we lynch this shit?

Like ffs.

[Imperium]

the flipless circlejerk continues...

can we lynch this shit?

Like ffs.

you really blame me?

ok...

I have addressed your slot and asked you several questions, which in the midst of you guys' epic prod-dodging and just in general refusing to offer up why your opinion is more valid than other people's and acting like you guys are god, you keep ignoring.

I see no town reason for you guys to behave that way.

If you guys are town, I'm disappointed as shit.

I don't think you are. I want you to hang.

[Imperium]

Don't even play this game with me antihero. Yu do have another head right? Who's supposed to be somewhat impressive and analytical, right?

Where is that.

And considering the
Is game day your slot came in lobbing a whole shit pile at nacho and me and I've bern trying to get yu guys to answer my questions while we entertained yours and took shit and potshots from your slot, the least you could do is answer my questions.

[Imperium]

I'm not mad at you anti <3

I don't even care if you're an asshole, don't think you are though.

I'm frustrated because I've been trying to get you guys to elaborate on your thought process so I can get a read on you, and I feel like nacho answered everything you guys asked/wanted to know, but when I asked you to respond to me I got ignored, and the only thing I have for a read on you guys is the end of day one govern thing and that's not enough to sustain me now especially when I can't understand you guys recent points.

[Imperium]

There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.

It's not particularly synergistic nor is there a notable degree of interaction in the main thread.

It doesn't look like a town bloc, swim like a town bloc, or quack like a town bloc.

I'd also like to talk about this.

I asked you to tell me how much skepticism you think you should be seeing that you're not seeing. I don't know why you ignored that.

I'd also like to talk about the second point. Nacho did a good job of pointing out that this is incorrect, but I'm interested in talking to you about the impetus behind the claim.

Until falcon was modkilled there was plenty, and more than I'd have liked interaction between the two of us.

As for the others. Are you actually making a claim we, as a neighborhood, aren't interacting enough? You do realize that we are the only slot in the neighborhood not to have been replaced right? How much interaction did you suppose we should have done with bitmap when he portaled day one and lurked then got replaced day two? Or TD who lurked a lot then got replaced?

and considering we have a neighborhood where we can interact, I don't see why us not overly interacting inn the main thread would be an issue. How much in the main thread interaction have you or anyone really been doing in the main thread.

I also don't get the town block accusation. We never claimed to be a town block. I, in particular, don't advocate town blocks in the first place. You can town read someone and not be in a town block. Zelink and U.S. seem to be on the same page, but not exactly sure where espy stands as he's a bit behind.

Do you want is to have skepticism or do you want us to be a town block? And there are neighborhoods here who are claiming all town neighborhoods with a much higher degree than we are, and they're not town blocking, so some of this feels like kitchen sink for the sole purpose of making arguments against us but that don't really make a whole lot of sense when looked at in context.

You might not feel this way any more, and that's cool, but I still want you to explain where you were coming from because I'm trying like hell to get a read on you.

[Imperium]

Ankamius, TSO, theaceofspades, farside22, ooba, Heartless, TheWayItEnds, Andrius

i agree
i also agree w/ this order

the game will end before you reach farside

What happened to this view of the game?

looking more

my desire to lynch anyone not in the roman neighborhood is at exactly zero

I'd really appreciate you articulating why. I told you I'd like you to try to articulate why you'd wouldn't be surprised if we flipped scum, but I don't think you did.

I spent some time looking over Imperium and I don't have anything I'm able to articulate yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were scum.

There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.

What type of skepticism do you think there should be in our nieghborhood that you aren't seeing?

I have a really hard time accepting that both of the above quotes are actually true statements.

[Imperium]

Because when people like mastin were vouching for their neighbourhoods, they were saying things like "ZZZX is 99% town, so is Xombie. No lynching them. Ever." It was made clear that if you were going to vouch for your neighbourhood you needed some pretty cast-iron reasons for doing so.

Vezok may or may not have had a mild townread on me somehow. If he did, I still don't see town-him just casually telling everyone it was an all-town neighbourhood like he did. With a minor townread on me? I just can't believe he'd do that. He's not wildly impulsive like that.

This makes no sense at all. You're essentially saying because mastin overestimated his read early, someone who is notorious for overestimating reads and giving reads on people who haven't even posted yet, everyone who declares their reads has to have that same intensity.

I don't believe you believe that.

Your scum read on vezok sounds convenient.

I would like you to explain vezoks motivations in claiming to save his partner day two in the way he did. Note: I never believed he was the cause for the missing night kill night one, but the way in which he did it didn't sound to me like someone going oh hey partner I saved you wink wink.

Zelink brings up a good point when he points out that cephrir obviously role copped mask night one from the way he interacted with him day two. Therefore, the scum team would have known he was a modified doc. So is it your contention, that knowing the scum team planned to kill mask the next might, as is indicated by cephrir's role, that vezok decided to also claim a doc type role and have scrutiny brought upon himself due to multiple roles? Also note I absolutely believe iterations of similar roles exist, and heartless's? Point that he could be scum based on there already being a doc flip and so he's suspicious there is complete crap when taken in conjunction with the fact that theyve pointed out that two town roles with similar passives have already flipped. (If that wasn't heartless, sorry, I'm in the middle of several things and tried to quickly get caught up.)

One reason I don't buy the vezok is scum who claimed doc on his partner is because not very long ago in serum and steel, one of the reasons why falcon eventually got lynched was because he was a scum doc and vezok was the town doc and people didn't think two of the same role could exist on the same side. I have a hard time believing that vezok!scum claimed doc knowing that a) mask was a modified doc, b) he was not the reason for the missing night kill and knew it, c) claimed to save his partner - quite frankly I don't imagine vezok is that ballsy as scum, and d) opened himself up for a counter claim knowing it would end up getting him in the process. I don't see the reward there at all.

I'd also like a response to this that isn't just quoting like the first paragraph and going lolnou.

What is your point on vezok and why is it more valid than this?

[Imperium]

Ooba - you're looking at that a little backwards. Cephrir said he was going to target TD with his day ability soon after replacing in. He tried to target TD day one. Then night one, he would have been told he had no result, which meant the bane obviously wouldn't work/he didn't know if he *could* target TD that night since it failed day one. So then he chose another target. He didn't already know the Mask was a doctor before attempting to target TD. Also, if you look at the vote counts, Cephrir obviously stole the Masks vote day two, and he was planned to be his "vig" target night one.

~~~

I don't get the votes on ooba at all.

[Imperium]

Ceph, I kinda like the stuff you've said this morning, but I also kinda feel like you're echoing back what I'm saying/telegraphing to some extent, aside from the TD read, where you're taking my word for it that town-TD is no stranger to moon logic etc.. :/

You're ffery. Your meta prowess rises above all other meta. I don't believe you would make up meta even if you were scum, and I don't think you're scum. I'm fine with putting him on the back burner for a little while.

I've tried to do my own meta before. It's interesting, but I've yet to produce any results. The first time I tried it, I couldn't even see differences. The second was in AW, wherein I came out feeling like I had a handle on Lynx but then didn't feel sure matching the present game with either past game.

I am still planning on using some abilities on TD this cycle, though, and I think that will help me.

[Imperium]

* he planned the mask to be his "vig" target night two.

[Imperium]

He didn't mention the removal of vote. I was looking at the vote counts.

I'm very confident that he tried to use his day action on TD day one, no matter how weird that interaction may have looked. He also obviously couldn't ask about it on day one I don't think.

woops

[Imperium]

Am I missing something? He should at least have his role pm and could claim that couldn't he?

[Imperium]

I'm actually p okay with Otolia's opening.

[Imperium]

I spent some time looking over Imperium and I don't have anything I'm able to articulate yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were scum.

There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.

What type of skepticism do you think there should be in our nieghborhood that you aren't seeing?

I have a really hard time accepting that both of the above quotes are actually true statements.

TTH of Heartless, I'd appreciate an answer to these questions. They should be simple answers.

This is mostly a prod dodge.

I'm defending my dissertation next week, so I won't be around to much.

-nacho

[Imperium]

oh also we don't like an ooba wagon.

[Imperium]

Magua I think you're thinking of the slot that is now twie?

[Imperium]

Yeah, twie is the one that stole your vote.

[Imperium]

Am I in prod range.

I kinda want to lynch heartless. I'll talk to lnk about it. He's is my guide and always advises me well whom I should cast doWN next.

Link is town
Magua is town

From there I got nothing.

Before you wounded why this posts seem se odd, my sleeping pill kicked in. So.

I'm,not sure if deadline is soon,,but I'm v/la until,Monday since IM DEFENDINGNYALL!!!!!

I'll pronably vote anyone I don't have a town read on.

This is the best rambly ambien fueled thread ever!

You're welcome.

[Imperium]

Disappointed in mastin and Imperium, really. At least Imperium has the decency outright say "I ain't paying attention to this game, but I'll sheep Magua" (even though the sheeping is yet to happen), but mastin is all "I ain't paying attention to this game, but let me throw out a vote on a vague not-even-really-a-scumread and then wander off" which I don't like.

I know, sorry.

I really should apologize to the game as a whole though. This game became difficult and a slog and we've had so many replacements and I feel partially responsible. I should have agreed when nacho suggested we replace out day two when falcon was getting exceptionally hostile, but I refused to mostly because I wanted to make a point. This game might not have suffered so much if I would have, and I'm very sorry about that and my part in why this game got miserable

This game has been really hard to get back into even after the dust settled from that mess, and I think at this point nacho is pretending this game doesn't exist. I just keep hoping we'll get nightkilled, but that doesn't seem like it's happening.

The only people who really care about this game and solving it for town are magua and zelink. Vezok too but he doesn't post a whole lot and doesn't have much of a voice. Oh wait also ooba. But that's pretty much.

The rest of the game is a murky mix of trolling, lurking, not caring, promising they'll be confirmed, not working with each other and crapping on other peoples reads without actuslly discussing why they're wrong or their argument is more likely, and actively not being helpful at all.

The town in this town need to step it up and stop actively hindering the game because this is pretty pitiful.

Yes, I know I need to do better too, and there's really not a lot I have the time or brain power to do in this day phase. With our luck well still be alive tomorrow and I'll try to do better then.

I'll probably move our vote to heartless, but I want to talk to zelink as I know he's going to read back through him today.

Magua - I really don't believe that td's block on mastin stopped the night kill night one.

[Imperium]

Actually I think enough people have claimed that it's narrowed down, and constantly pointing out that other people's thoughts on the no night kill night one is wrong is a bit tedious right now. IT's probably not unwise to just out it, and Im tired and fried and if it helps the people most up on the game to make better sense of it, then it might be put to good use.

We're the reason for no night kill night one. Our ult was a killstop, which we used night one because it was the only night we could be sure we'd be alive and we thought solar wind would be the only other night kill. Well I mean we decided we'd use it night one when we first got it, but yeah.

We are not responsible for the no scum kill night three though.

[Imperium]

The following conversation serves two points.

Spoiler: a day two conversation with cephrir

I'm keep a slide of players\neighbourhoods. I don't have detailed notes for how I made each of the deductions/jumps. From memory:
- You weren't Egyptian because I am
- You weren't Greek because you replied to House saying you wanted to be in Olympus
- MS claimed Chinese and his two neighbours pretty early on D1
- Pegged {You\SW\Bitmap\xx} as Roman from the rest initially because "strongman with 2 kills" sounded liked Hercules and I'm pretty sure I spotted a Cupid thing from SW
- Reaffirmed when MS said 'Janus' after being Bitmap'd

This post is pretty town. If ooba was scum, the true answer to how he knew the pantheons would be because he is scum. However, he was able to produce all of these things, none of which I really picked up on, 40 minutes after the question was asked. I believe this would take longer than 40 minutes to fabricate, and furthermore, I don't think scum would have seen reason to care about the pantheon issue enough to have something like this ready.

Yeah, I have a town read there anyway, though if I have time I'll check out a scum game to see if an indicator is there too. The question was mostly a stray thought with me thinking about scum in my neighborhood.

I don't think TD's block of mastin is particularly town, as someone who actually read mastin's posts yesterday.

...... I think given how much people trust her and how much she was asking not to be targeted groupscum would find her the perfect choice to send out for a kill. And also, THERE WASN'T A GODDAMNED KILL!

I have a problem with this post.

Is it the fact that it confirms he actually did read mastin's posts yesterday?

Is it the fact that it confirms he actually did read mastin's posts yesterday?

And by that point I do not believe he thought his roleblock on mastin stopped the kill.

Because he seemingly forgot, voted other wagons, and hasn't pushed it in the intervening 9 days?

No. I mean at the moment when he said, "THERE WASNT A GODDAMNED KILL" I do not believe he thought his roleblock stopped the kill.

There's exactly one reason why he could have said that, but I'm just not sure either way.

He could be derp town? IDK

I don't follow.

...... I think given how much people trust her and how much she was asking not to be targeted groupscum would find her the perfect choice to send out for a kill. And also, THERE WASN'T A GODDAMNED KILL!

I'd like your conclusion better if someone else already hadn't claimed to have blocked the kill.

This might point to derp town?

IDK

Well we need to decide whether we're lynching him today or not, so it kinda matters.

I don't follow.

It will make sense at some point.

1). There are neighborhood reasons I think zelink is definitely town, and this is something nacho agreed with me on, that I'm not going to go into, but because there's been too much of this crap in this game, here is a reason I think zelink is more likely town. This conversation just does not feel like cephrir interacting with me about his partner. What my point was was that we claimed our role in the neighborhood at the end of day one and said what we were going to do with it, TD posted before that but not again until after he claimed day two. By the point that he claimed in the post "and there wasn't a kill", ffery had informed him of what we had done night one and therefore knew his roleblock didn't stop the kill. I was trying to decide if he was scum who was pretending to be dumb or town that just didn't read our neighborhood. I also had to decide if he made that "and there wasn't a kill" as a means of not showing that he now knew what was going on.

Cephrir's interaction over that didn't feel like someone talking about his partner. I realize this might not seem strong, but peregrines reaction to td's claim felt like trying to keep the town cred on cephrir for vezok stopping the nightkill here:

...... I think given how much people trust her and how much she was asking not to be targeted groupscum would find her the perfect choice to send out for a kill. And also, THERE WASN'T A GODDAMNED KILL!

I'd like your conclusion better if someone else already hadn't claimed to have blocked the kill.

I know that not many people are really scum reading zelink, but these are a couple things that I wanted to bring up.

2) This goes to my question I've had to tth that I've asked three times now and she hasn't bothered to even pretend to answer.

I spent some time looking over Imperium and I don't have anything I'm able to articulate yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were scum.

There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.

What type of skepticism do you think there should be in our nieghborhood that you aren't seeing?

I have a really hard time accepting that both of the above quotes are actually true statements.

TTH of Heartless, I'd appreciate an answer to these questions. They should be simple answers.

This is mostly a prod dodge.

I'm defending my dissertation next week, so I won't be around to much.

-nacho

There is literally no way these two statements can be even remotely factual. Not only did I suspect solar wind early day one, but we also expressed concern about TD day one. Day two's entire bramble discussion was because we thought that TD got brambles by targeting us ( apparently brambles had nothing to do with us), but we thought he was lying, caught scum. And then there's this conversation in which I showed clear concern over TD. Therefore, there is absolutely no way they took a look over us AND believe we didn't have skepticism about our neighborhood. I have no idea why tth absolutely refuses to answer a question which should be simple.

[Imperium]

Two weeks? Fuck that. There's no reason to fuck around anymore with lynches, this game has gone on long enough and we are far enough in the lead where it doesn't make sense to drag out every. single. day.

Vote: Skybird

[Imperium]

town:

Magua
Ollie
Ooba
Zelink
Mastin2
Metal Sonic
Mnemonic
Otolia

These players will not be lynched throughout the course of the game unless mastin claims what makes ZZZX and Drixxx actual confirmed town. Lynch order is likely Skybird to TSO to Espeonage to ZZZX to Drixx to vezok to TWIE. If Drixx and ZZZX confirm themselves, they get into the town block and push Otolia and Mnemonic near the end. If they just kind of confirm themselves, they make it to the end of the lynch list.

[Imperium]

We should wait for mastin's result\epic reveal.

That's fine.

[Imperium]

If we can lynch TSO today, sure we will lynch TSO today. If not, then I'm still inclined to lynch Skybird, but don't really care all that much if the lynch isn't in the town reads, only that it happens quickly and with a minimum of bullshit.

[Imperium]

town:

Magua
Ollie
Ooba
Zelink
Mastin2
Metal Sonic

Mnemonic
Otolia

huh?

Mnemonic is town because far side was town. Otolia posts after replacement were pretty fucking town. Where and why do you disagree?

[Imperium]

I know what Mastin did, and because of what happened during the night and the claims right when the day started, her action may have snared scum. We'll see when she shows up.

That would be nice.

[Imperium]

town:

Magua
Ollie
Ooba
Zelink
Mastin2
Metal Sonic
Mnemonic
Otolia

These players will not be lynched throughout the course of the game unless mastin claims what makes ZZZX and Drixxx actual confirmed town. Lynch order is likely Skybird to TSO to Espeonage to ZZZX to Drixx to vezok to TWIE. If Drixx and ZZZX confirm themselves, they get into the town block and push Otolia and Mnemonic near the end. If they just kind of confirm themselves, they make it to the end of the lynch list.

you cant have someone in a town block and have someone he confirmed to be 100% town outside of it you know.

that and the fact that there is a REASON we dont give you the info. We gave you what mastin does for now so dont ask for the impossible.

Once I have information you're conftown, I'll revise the town block.

[Imperium]

Also, townblocks don't need to be formed of people who are 100% town: they are formed with people who are town beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Imperium]

Reviving CONFTOWN does not make YOU conftown so there's that!

Ooba had town posting and a very town usage of ability, which is good enough for me.

[Imperium]

town:

Magua
Ollie
Ooba
Zelink
Mastin2
Metal Sonic
Mnemonic
Otolia

These players will not be lynched throughout the course of the game unless mastin claims what makes ZZZX and Drixxx actual confirmed town. Lynch order is likely Skybird to TSO to Espeonage to ZZZX to Drixx to vezok to TWIE. If Drixx and ZZZX confirm themselves, they get into the town block and push Otolia and Mnemonic near the end. If they just kind of confirm themselves, they make it to the end of the lynch list.

you cant have someone in a town block and have someone he confirmed to be 100% town outside of it you know.

that and the fact that there is a REASON we dont give you the info. We gave you what mastin does for now so dont ask for the impossible.

Just so you're aware, in case you missed it, the only slot here 100% confirmed to be town is us. Magua is close to being the other one.

You guys can stop futzing around and promising stuff that has yet to come and give us information, and confirm yourselves if possible. I'm not really interested in holding out for more empty promises.

If you guys have caught scum and can help contribute to the game, do it. I'm really not interested in excuses or anything else.

[Imperium]

Please call nacho to break the game tia

All the posts today with the exception of 9076 have been nacho.

[Imperium]

Not being a dick, nor is it sudden. I made it clear yesterday that I thought this game was suffering due to the antics and unfulfilled promises of too many people.

My response was in response to xxxz being how dare you oeave confirmed town off the town list. You guys are not confirmed town.

And just so you're aware it's day five. Promises have been made for days. I'm not interested in listening to more excuses or promises for things to come. That wasn't a do it right this second, but don't comolain about not being in a town list because you guys keep making promises for stuff that is coming.

[Imperium]

What does mastin's results have to do with why you two are confirmed town anyway?

We have mastin in our town list. It's the two of you we need more than her word of "trust me" on. And the bees thing for zzzx wasn't a really strong reason.

[Imperium]

I don't think it's unreasonable for us not to completely trust you/ZZZ until you actually are confirmed. I don't think it's unreasonable to call this game a cancer and I don't think it is particularly unreasonable to attempt to speed the game the hell up because I don't want to have to deal with a day like yesterday ever again. These are the things my partner and I are trying to communicate. It is not our intention to be asses or to be. condescending or to offend: if we come across as overly harsh, it is because this game is a slog and it's unpleasant slogging through it.

[Imperium]

I was literally telling nacho yesterday how hysterical it would be if mastin put bees on us.

Dried - it's day five. I don't care any more about promises for the future. I feel like these kinds of antics are why the game is as fucked as it is. I don't a) trust your entire neighborhood for either alignment purposes or that it really can do what you say. B) that you would make good choices.

Like apparently your all three in on this to work together. Did not one of you see the two places we put in the thread NOT to target us. Mastin coming in and going yeah made another bad decision with my role, misunderstood how it worked, etc does not instill me with grand faith.

I've run out of patience for your hoods secrecy, and want you guys to out what the hell it is that makes you confirmed town think you are.

We gave our top town reads yesterday.

Mastin - can you please explain your role and how it works in a simple format. Without the oh ho ho you say it can't do this too? Ad lib because it's muddying my understanding of your role.

Also Drixx? Made it seem like you guys thought you would catch a killer with it. Why did you think that? Why did you think we would die last night? And if you did think we would die, why give us bees?

[Imperium]

And I don't mean to sound bitchy, but this type of stuff has gone on too long and it's past time that it stopped.

[Imperium]

If I'm understanding correctly, someone with bees has to target someone to get bees, which would mean someone with bees targetted vezok last night?

See this is why you need to explain your role in a simple format.

Me.

Also a simple rephrase of the uses of roles and who has bees would be great. People never lose their bees right?

[Imperium]

Yeah, as far as I understand you have to have bees to give bees.

Do bees ever leave?

Those given bees through whatever means: zzzx, mastin, tso, magua, us.

So, in order for vezok to have bees, one of those five people had to target vezok.

Lol wasn't us, look at our role pm.

[Imperium]

By the way, in case you aren't 100 clear mastin, you're now blocked until tomorrow because of that so whatever information you're next going to have is going to come D7 at the earliest

Except she's claimed an added dimension to her power which makes her unblock able.

[Imperium]

Can you cop anyone with bees? Anyone who has ever given bees?

[Imperium]

OK guys, mastin outed her info, that was fun, let's lynch Skybird now.

[Imperium]

Nacho, give 3 names. Do this by the end of the day. Make it huge so that I see it

acknoledge

I don't have three good names for you yet. I can't break a game that I hate: give me three days so I can wrap up funeral stuff and then maybe I'll do more thinking than strongarming?

[Imperium]

Drixx - I'll read your wall later, but I never said Mastin is crap blah blah blah. I want her to clarify her role as succinctly as possible without the extra ad libs so I can understand it. As it is its jumbled with all the additives, and I only have limited time to get something done here and offer our thoughts on how to proceed.

If either of us seem impatient it's because we are. We haven't hidden that this game is miserable, but we are in a position now where our thoughts are know. As 100% town before we flip, and we're trying to get what we can done. If it means pushing people to be clear and stop hiding behind neighborhoods and promises, when I think it's a major problem for the potential of a town win, we are going to do it.

[Imperium]

Oh I just got to the petty sniping part. *reads your wall rants and goes kk*

Here I'm going to explain something to you since you seem to be new. This is a mafia game, and I don't have to trust you because you say so, especially when you guys have been hiding behind your neighborhood for the entire game. Choices are going to be criticized. If cephrir were town, I'd have probably had to answer a bunch of criticism for why I roleblocked him day one.

Getting people to explain things is part of the game, and trying to find out why people claim to be confirmed to each other is part of the game. Me pointing out that we are, in fact, the only confirmed town here is not me getting on my high horse or whatever you said, it's me pointing out a fact. It is not unheard of for scum to claim to be confirmed town when they are in fact not.

It is not up to us to bow down and work with you.

If you are town, figure out a way to get over whatever this weird thing you have with exaggerating things, but dealing with people ranging at me for trying to get stuff done and cut through the bullshit is not something I'm going to deal with.

Are you saying tht you can essentially VIG shoot someone today?

Metal sonic - can you shoot someone today?

Fourtrouble slot - can you shoot someone today?

Ooba - I noticed we were only dead for three minutes. Did you have to submit our name before night was over? How did you guess we would die if so.,

[Imperium]

@Drixx / ZZZX:

The annoying thing isn't you obfuscating information.

The annoying thing is you two saying "OMG WE HAVE GREAT INFORMATION TRUST US."

Similarly, the annoyance with mastin isn't her saying that she thinks her neighborhood is all town. The annoyance is her saying "OMG MY NEIGHBORHOOD IS 100% MOD CONFIRMED TOWN TRUST ME"

Like, if you don't want to talk about your information, then fucking don't. But don't bring it up every goddamn post and then say "OH BUT WE CANT TALK ABOUT IT"

It's goddamn infuriating.

Cannot like this post enough.

Drixx I don't give two fucks if you're annoyed with me because I'm arguing that you people need to cut the bullshit. It's not my curiosity. Quite frankly I also couldn't give two fucks about all your plans.

This whole discussion you ranting is because your neighbor complained that we don't see you as confirmed town.

Which you are not.

We are. Magua is next closest.

No one else is.

Our other town reads are based on things we can actually see in thread and say these actions look town.

Neither of you have any of that and neithe of us are going to call you confirmed town/consider you confirmed town on the basis of TRUST US.

You're the ones who started this argument. You're the ones getting twisted up because we're not calling you confirmed town when we have no reason to.

Now, if you want to keep your information to yourself and think you can confirmed yourselves in the coming days, shut the fuvk up about it and quit your whining that we don't have you as confirmed town. You aren't at the top of our lynch list in the first place, and it shouldn't fucking matter to you unless you're about to be lynched.

Sit in your neighborhood and go hahaha they'll see we're confirmed town when they witness x, if that's the case. Because this thing you guys are doing is unhelpful and is adding bullshit that this game does not need.

Tl;dr: if you're town help find scum and stop complaining that we don't consider you 100% mod confirmed town because you very much are not.

[Imperium]

I'm just as confused about our night kill as magua is incidentally. I do find it amusing that I do tend to die on a night when I say I won't be dying though.

I'm guessing it's because of the night one kill stop or maybe they thought we had another role to stop kills? Realized we're the ones who blocked cephrir? There's still a racist out there and something is happening to kills? Are absolutley terrified of me after I said nacho probably wouldn't do anything RAWR?

Who knows. But we were in heaven for three whole minutes!

[Imperium]

So right putting Drixx on ignore since he clearly can't read and likes to devolve into wall hysteria because he likes to type and rant.

Mastin - I'll check with dram, but I'm pretty sure our passive activates at the time we are targeted not the next phase so I'm a little confused.

Also, if you can investigate anyone with bees on them, I'm trying to figure out if it would be beneficial for us also to target someone today and give them bees. Would that create too many people with bees and muddy up the Poe through bee action? It might be useful in case you can't put bees on someone again.

Also also why didn't you investigate TSO last night? Did you see us claim the night one no kill and still think we could be scum?

[Imperium]

Drixx I'm sorry. I was not personally attacking you. I'm frustrated that you keep getting after me for attacking madtin while she's on v/la which is something I didn't do and pointed out. I didn't read the rest of that last post after it was mentioned I attacked mastin again.

I wanted mastin to clarify her role without the ad lib so I can understand it as its muddled. Trying to understand someone's role and usage is not attacking.

Saying that you guys are not confirmed town just because mastin says so is not attacking mastin. Being impatient with your neighborhood because any time a question of your alignment comes up due to the fact that your slots haven't done much all game, you guys' response is were confirmed town to each other in the neighborhood, you can't not town read us, and mastin says so is not attacking mastin while v/la. I get it that this type of response predates your slot, but this has been a trend of sorts in this game, and people need to start doing stuff in the game and not hide behind promises to come if we're going to have a chance to win.

I don't think you guys have to worry much about being nightkilled and ruining your plan. Sure bees Poe, but if they haven't targetted mastin yet, they might not be inclined to, and there could be scum in your neighborhood - thank you for the information btw, I'll try to process what I can from it tomorrow hopefully, I suddenly have a fever and a terribly sore throat and am going to sleep soon - or if there are concerns about getting caught they'll leave you alone.

We are essentially a free kill tonight. No protective role should target us or they'll lose their action tomorrow night, so in the end I don't think it's helpful.

Anyway, it wasn't personal and I'm sorry it came across that way.

[Imperium]

Yaaaaaaaaay

Vote: TSO

I think mastin shot can be saved, metal sonic shot should go......

[Imperium]

Espeonage? Vezok? Otolia?

[Imperium]

Zelink suspicions are really terrible

[Imperium]

In every way imaginable

[Imperium]

I am tempted to kill mnemonic, simply to save dramonic the woe of having to find a replacement for this game.

Someone tell me why this shouldn't be done.

Far side was town.
why can't we lynch tso again?

[Imperium]

See, I have the opposite viewpoint of you. People who lurk / are inactive after scum take a bruising I feel are more likely to be scum, not less.

I agree.

See: TSO and Ace-slot.

I have to disagree on both these shots.

TSO is town who simply doesn't care anymore.
Ace is the scum mislynch-misshot slot etc. etc.

You're asserting TSO town because...?

[Imperium]

Like... you can make it one post.

But like, I'm just telling you that three would have had a better comedic effect.

You seemed excited that you were "doing it too!", I thought I'd give you some pointers.

Is there a reason you can't just vote TSO?

[Imperium]

UNVOTE: Espeonage
VOTE: TWIE

My only regret, really, is that you'll still be able to post useless drivel after you're dead.

it looks like you're policy lynching someone else for being useless

[Imperium]

would you just vote tso today then please?
It would also probably mildly annoy magua, which I can only imagine would be a plus!

[Imperium]

Was tso even around during the night phase? I thought he was v/la.

[Imperium]

There are 16 players alive. There are probably 2-3 scum left, lets assume 3. If we don't lynch town TSO today, there are 6 town directed kills available to us before we lose. If we do lynch town TSO today, we have 8 town directed kills that have to hit town before we lose. If TSO is town, I do believe that his death will still bring positive utility for the town, and I don't believe that the worth he brings to town as town is enough to outweigh the utility gained with his death.

[Imperium]

We get less town directed kills the longer we wait to activate the vig shot.

[Imperium]

You've pretty much said that you're policy lynching twie because he's being an ass. I'm not particularly inclined to support that wagon at all.

[Imperium]

I doubt Ollie has information about TSO also.

[Imperium]

I don't understand why Drixx finds Otolia's claim townie really.

[Imperium]

you do realize you could just shoot espeonage right

[Imperium]

Metal Sonic - You should shoot espionage. Then help us lynch TSO.

Let's get rid of dead/toxic waste and if neither of them are scum town can figure out a way to reset tomorrow.

[Imperium]

OR JUST SHOOT TSO BECUAUSE FUCK.

[Imperium]

I know it sucks that we've only been on one mislynch wagon this game and it's day five. We should certainly be doing better than that. We'd hoped to get at least three by now

[Imperium]

metal just shoot or i'll ask vezok to protect me

[Imperium]

aka you make bullets appear or your precious commodity is going unprotected overnight

[Imperium]

or i'll just spam the thread until tso is dead
something
just make it happen
god
damn

[Imperium]

bad sonic

[Imperium]

whatever, as long as you don't shoot zelink i'll still love you

[Imperium]

im paranoid very about magua though. playing too town to be town. or something

he was investigated as town

[Imperium]

if metal sonic is gonna have zelink in the pool of shots i'd much rather espeonage take him into the hood

[Imperium]

metal sonic
please
please don't do this to me right now

[Imperium]

yay!
let's kill tso so everyone can be happy again

[Imperium]

i'm sure skybird isn't scum also
i think killing twie would be funny to help twie troll magua more effectively and the treestump claim meshes with blonde's confirmation statement and so i am incredibly sure he's town but hey still ok with death there

[Imperium]

no
scum brambled TD because it's day 5 and still no one claims brambles

i keep asking ooba who the other bramble person is and i keep forgetting his answer

[Imperium]

no i asked dramonic if those brambles on td were ours because i had the same thought and he sadly answered no

[Imperium]

Many thanks!

[Imperium]

Hopefully we just racked up another one!

We do have a quota to fulfill! Zelink is such a good loyal servant in our mission

[Imperium]

Oh that's right, killer is farside and thus probably town.

[Imperium]

I feel like I've been given new life now that TSO is dead!

[Imperium]

Perhaps I'm not spending as much time as I need analyzing things and generating content but I truly think what this game needs is a little bit of death and not much else. I'm pretty much ripping Otolia out the town block because inactivity is ridiculous but other than that I'm as happy a camper as I ever will be in this miserable game.

[Imperium]

Imperium, I want Zelink to die a bloody gruesome death. Plz tell me if I'm wrong. kthxbai.

From what I understand, you suspect Zelink because his motivation in the game has recently flagged. Is this an unfair representation of your suspicion/is there more?

[Imperium]

Guiz.

I have info that 98% that vezok protected Metal Sonic on Nights he's claimed to do so.

vezok-scum doing this only makes sense if Metal Sonic is also scum.

Agree or disagree.

It makes a considerably larger amount of sense if Metal Sonic is scum, yes.

Metal Sonic being scum is entirely possible and is actually one of the more prominent theories that keeps popping up.

[Imperium]

Drixx, want to make sure I understand:

You think it's possible for vezok-scum used rolestopping on Metal Sonic-town?

Do I believe that it's possible? Yes. Vezok is going to have to claim his actions eventually, and it's better that he's protecting Sonic (who is not a high priority kill) over say the people who died the last 4 nights.

This is assuming he had no way of knowing you'd know who he targetted. If that was a possibility, then the answer becomes a tiny bit more obvious.

[Imperium]

Impossible

Your scum game is too good to let you live.

[Imperium]

Skybird, did you ever explain why you didn't say anything when zelink targetted you?

[Imperium]

I don't actually have any real measure of confidence Otolia slot will flip scum, but it has been so incredibly gone when Otolia is normally a very present very passionate player that it's worth activating the vig shot.

[Imperium]

I'm guessing he probably is. I did ask him to take me into the portal, just as I'm asking vezok to protect me tonight, and I also had him take a paranoia shot on a player that probably isn't scum, but could be if we get an few unexpected town flips

[Imperium]

Imp, since no one had commented the first time I mentioned that someone targetted me, when I was targetted again I didn't bother mentioning it.

just wondering

[Imperium]

It's a gigantic part of the town read on him, yes

[Imperium]

I mean we have the killing power to plow through everyone except for ooba/me/you/drixx/Ollie/zelink and I think we should probably just do that

[Imperium]

And you're townreading Espeonage as well?

Espeonage claimed a vig shot ultimate that he didn't use until I told him to: this is a vig shot with a multiple day delay. It makes an exceptional amount of sense for town not to use a shot like this because reads change a lot in multiple day phases, and when people are obviously scum enough to where you can be confident your read on them isn't changing any time soon, you just lynch them?

For scum, however, that kill I'd a massive boon and is getting used asap before they get lynched randomly. So if that shot goes through in multiple day phases (which I think it will), then espeonage would be pretty super town in my eyes

[Imperium]

I want to believe that this is true but paranoia.

I confbiased hard on Heartless and am confbiasing now on Metal for pretty much purely PoE reasons but have no better solutions.

I have paranoia too! But if we are wrong, we go back to the lab and reassess until we get something that feels like a strong lead again. I don't think we will end up losing this game if we go back to the grindstone every time we fuck up.

[Imperium]

I'd like to start lynching Otolia, shooting Metal. I'm not sure who I'd like to mark after that: if Metal flips scum, then we're chainlynching brain afterwards obviously but I think the game will be done at that point anyways. If Metal flips town, I'm not really sure I want vezok's death next

[Imperium]

The flaw with that plan is if a couple scum are in the top townreads. We have two publicly conftown players and I cannot imagine them living much longer. Scum would have to be stupid to leave them alive. Any of the remaining scum among the stronger town reads will cost us the game if we just follow that sort of strategy.

that's the strategy I'm specifically not advocating right now

[Imperium]

If you're talking about the scum in the 6 I named... FT had the interaction with Cephrir, F-16's town read, great content early game. If we wins the game, okay, he deserves it.

Zelink has a ridiculously large amount of reasons why he would be town including: use of his role (which would be absolutely utterly fantastic for scum, like actually just good), the strongest drive out of anyone to actually gamesolve (600 posts in thread + 890 in neighborhood is a very shallow metric, yes, but you think that he hasn't been in the game as long as others have and you think the average length of posts that Zelink makes and holy shit is that kid putting his heart on the table).

We have you within your neighborhood: I trust Mastin's read on the neighborhood in general, but I also trust how ridiculously genuine you come across in your posts.

Ooba also has a fantastically large amount of :good posting:. He has a resurrect on us when I've had a pretty good reading record on him in the past and when he was already drowning in town cred.

[Imperium]

I'm cool with lynching the otolia slot too, though I do like my earlier reason for town reading him, but the slots bern soooo absent and lackluster that meh.

I'm cool with a shot on metal sonic, who is not confirmed town btw. The killer jester kill was so super disappointing and I don't understand why he went through the whole process of asking for names and then shooting that slot.

Did Ollie ever clear up why his version of his role seems different than fourtrouble? I've been keeping up, but been busy lately and font remember him answering.

I'm not sure if bitmap claimed to metal sonic. He did not claim that aspect to us, iirc espy only recently claimed it, but I will look back through the neighborhood.

I had more I thought, be back if so.

[Imperium]

Oh though we can't lynch until zzzx bothers to check in and acknowledges the protect for tonight.

[Imperium]

Why would that necessitate a kill on the farside slot? Who didn't claim double vote, but whose role as a semi governor was proven day two.

Bitmap didn't say he claimed his role, but he did say metal sonic claimed everything about his role. Though I'm reminded of how weird the day one ms jailkeep was. It still feels weird. He started off not thinking much of ms, then not getting the hate, then taking him to interrogate him, and then not really actually doing that? Idk.

[Imperium]

Thank you!

I'm an even better backseat driver!

[Imperium]

Magua is calling for zzzx to protect us.

Does anyone have a list of claims and actions handy? It'd be nice to see twie do something other than ask about people's roles. Also it'd be convenient.

[Imperium]

Why would that necessitate a kill on the farside slot? Who didn't claim double vote, but whose role as a semi governor was proven day two.

You didn't answer this.

[Imperium]

Ask zelink he's very helpful lad

Funny you should mention that. He'd also like to list all the claims!

[Imperium]

I don't entirely buy that zzzx did not know we were confirmed town because he definitely showed up right after we were confirmed to complain that he was not in the confirmed town block.

Eh I'm remembering his first game here where he did not know who was nightkilled and we thought it was a fake dumb tell. Would he still be that oblivious? I mean like supposedly his hood discusses roles and such and not one mention was made that mastin put bees on us, which supposedly was a group hood decision, and he didn't bother to check what the outcome was?

I mean seriously. Really? The night we died we had an investigation on us BY THAT HOOD and zzzx is oblivious?

[Imperium]

Metal Sonic - << third party
Skybird - << no idea
Otolia - << no idea
TheWayItEnds - << leaning scum gut read
Zel1nk - << null(like hes in the middle, not the no idea)
Ooba - << no idea
ZZZX - << town
Magua - << town
vezokpiraka - << scummy
Espeonage - << no clue
Drixx - << town
Imperium - << no clue atm

my read list is sucky but its what i have before a full read

The only people he has town are him, drixx (his hood), and Magua (the other person confirmed town by mastin), but he didn't bother to check on us when he supposedly knew mastin was investigating us?

I mean we're not lynching him and that's cool, and he likes to play scummy so that he can win in LyLo or whatever but this is smh wtf?

[Imperium]

My main problem is he's cleared due to role interactions, for a way he'd have to play regardless of his alignment.

I have absolutely no idea why mastin didn't just investigate him night one instead of do that complicated not really alignment revealing but town confirming thing she did instead.

Like I don't understand any of her night actions at all.

[Imperium]

Why would that necessitate a kill on the farside slot? Who didn't claim double vote, but whose role as a semi governor was proven day two.

You didn't answer this.

Well,

If otolia is fakeclaiming farside's role

Then they must be working together!

Or that's what I thiught

Where did this happen?

[Imperium]

Link me to the damn post that explains it instead of spamming crap.

[Imperium]

Link me. You have over a thousand posts.

[Imperium]

Or explain it to me, shit it's your role you should be able to reiterate.

[Imperium]

Thanks!

I missed that page. I was

drinking

busy last weekend.

[Imperium]

For whoever asked, March 3rd, zelink told us about his role. He didn't use the word fragilizer, but it's there.

[Imperium]

Oh and reading back over the neighborhood just makes my town read on zelink stronger. Like I'd cry if he flipped scum which might not mean much because I'm a Sao who cries really easily, but I might doubt reality?

Anyway, I think that zelink and Magua are having a crises of playstyle and they should call a truce, hold hands, sing kumbaya and we could all work this out together, like a good family!

[Imperium]

if he omitted the fragilizer part or equivalent to you u really should powerlynch him

If either of us for one second thought what he claimed way back on March 3rd didn't match up to what you're claiming, we'd be voting him.

We're not ergo we don't see any discrepancies.

[Imperium]

I think I'm going to sleep, but right now where Im at:

Town: Magua, zelink

Maybe town: drixx, vezok

Concerned about vigges being left alive so need to think. Did Ollie clear up the discrepancy between ft and Ollie?

Eveyone else is a leftover.

[Imperium]

Yeah, nobody else should vote until we've made sure protective night actions are set, and we've said we're done doing our thing.

[Imperium]

Vezok should protect us and can switch with zzzx.

[Imperium]

hey vezok, could you claim your character & flavor pls?

[Imperium]

magua can i call you magz bagz?

[Imperium]

I'd actually be happy if everyone flavor claimed!

[Imperium]

We are Sylvanus!

[Imperium]

Am I smoking crack or something? Metal Sonic said that Otolia didn't claim the reflexive role blocker until it was outed, but he claimed it in Post 9204 and Metal Sonic didn't claim rolecop until 500 posts later.

Also more looking at this game will probably wait until later I'm wine drowsy and am getting ready to head back out.

[Imperium]

We do need to see if you're on board to follow the protect plan though zzzz.

doobedobebo

[Imperium]

you never answered if we could post our role pm in thread btw

[Imperium]

you never answered if we could post our role pm in thread btw

He did!

He said no

[Imperium]

Skybird, speaking of wasting ults because of potential usage of scum, you mind using that ult of yours before we finish off the Otolia lynch?

[Imperium]

Town lynches Otolia
Drixxx supervigs Vezok
Ollie shoots Espeonage
Snowflake protects us
Ollie submits no mark
ZZZX protects whoever
Vezok protects whoever

this is currently what i'm thinking is happening today!
zelink's action requires a certain amount of secrecy, so it's not in THE PLAN

[Imperium]

Skybird - I will look but there are lots of posts and I'll be shocked into speechlessness if zelink is scum here.

[Imperium]

So, this head had some gin when she came home and is now going to sleep cuz tired, I'll try to do something tomorrow.

[Imperium]

Updated Plan with Drixx's ability explained:

Town lynches Otolia
Ollie shoots Espeonage
Snowflake protects Imperium
Ollie submits mark on Metal Sonic (who Drixx will super hammer tomorrow)
ZZZX protects whoever
Vezok protects Imperium

[Imperium]

And to be clear, I will burn my ultimate if that's what everyone wants me to do.

We have two days until deadline. I want you to burn your ultimate today.

[Imperium]

there is a duplicate of protecting imperium

yes

[Imperium]

unless otolia flips scum^

then i am clear

no

where did you get this idea?

[Imperium]

Throwing out the baby with the bath water a bit there Zel.

I'm not really sure what this means.

[Imperium]

so once skybird uses ult powers we can end the day!
hooray hooray!

[Imperium]

metal sonic's play around otolia just looks like scumbuddies with otolia to me

[Imperium]

I feel the game could have been a lot less painful if you gave more info early day 1.
But that might just be me.