SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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In post 7940, T S O wrote:In post 7937, Imperium wrote:In post 7931, T S O wrote:In post 7930, Magua wrote:I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."
Carry on.
So what's your read on TWIE?
You didn't respond, buddy.
I was waiting for you to bring up your "softclaimed for Skybird" point - is this you ceding it's utterly irrelevant?
I wanted to discuss one thing at a time since you're bad at responding to things I bring up.
Is there a reason we can't talk about this point, or...?A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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In post 7930, Magua wrote:I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."
Carry on.
Could you please explain why you disagree with this, TSO?A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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In post 7959, T S O wrote:In post 7947, Imperium wrote:In post 7930, Magua wrote:I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."
Carry on.
Could you please explain why you disagree with this, TSO?
Because it's fundamentally wrong?
This is a non-answer. Could you please respond to my post with a post that refutes its reasoning??A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Vote TSO!A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Thank you, beautiful prince.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 7964, Imperium wrote:I can live with that, mastin. We just aren't syncing this game.
But actually, we don't have to live with that. I don't want to have to live with that. I know you can't see it and I know you can't fully trust it, but this game makes me feel tired. This game makes me feel drained and I hate posting it because I know I won't be able to make myself a priority nightkill even though I'm screaming and pleading for death because I'm just not good enough to turn on being a good player when I want to, I just need to play it naturally, not stress about when I'm wrong, not give in to added pressure to go from good to great when I'm right.
I didn't understand until very recently why we've been so off lately, but I think a large part of it has been my approach to you: ironically enough, I've been thinking you were being uncharacteristically self-centered and weren't working with me over frustration over D1, but nope that's not it at all, I never actually considered what was going through your head and I'm sorry for that, but I think I have a better understanding now and I would be much happier if we could actually mesh for once.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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And you know what? I respect you as a player and I trust you to be right. I will respect you as a player and I will continue to trust you to be right regardless of what happens this game, next game, game after that: because I know what you're capable of, I know what you've done to earn your reputation, and you've earned it.
And I know this is strange and oddly timed and poorly worded, but this is a revelation I've made based on my own recent streak of "meh" games and I wanted to get it out before I went to sleep.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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And yeah, okay, I don't have some amazing knock-em dead case on TSO-scum. The things I've pointed out could probably come from TSO-town or TSO-scum. But Ifeelgood about this lynch, and I feel in my heart that he's going to flip scum. And I want to earn your trust again, I know I deserved to lose it but this is me fighting to earn it again. Please, give me a chance. And I know everyone else is going to make fun of me making a bunch of posts like I'm drunk as fuck or something but I have a feeling and a hope that you'll understand this, so please show me I'm not crazy!!!A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 7975, T S O wrote:In post 7962, Imperium wrote:In post 7959, T S O wrote:In post 7947, Imperium wrote:In post 7930, Magua wrote:I'll translate for Imperium: "A newb scum would not believe their role could confirm them as town because they are not town."
Carry on.
Could you please explain why you disagree with this, TSO?
Because it's fundamentally wrong?
This is a non-answer. Could you please respond to my post with a post that refutes its reasoning??
Because you are assuming that newb-scum have this gigantic block in their head that prevents them from thinking this, and I don't.
And I believe this because... it's impossible for scum to confirm themselves as town. Generally people don't believe in things that are impossible: why would newb-scum suddenly feel different?
That's what I'm attempting to get you to respond to here.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 7976, T S O wrote:In post 7929, T S O wrote:We know that Blonde, or TWIE now, cannot actually confirm themselves. So, we know Blonde misinterpreted their role. The only question left is if Blonde-town is more likely to misinterpret their role than Blonde-scum.
I propose, this game being role madness, there is no reason to think that.
This still stands.
It still comically misses the point.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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In post 8003, Heartless wrote:In post 7950, ZeL1nK2 wrote:Yeah, but I think #7757 did a pretty good job of negating that point!
In post 7757, Imperium wrote:I would like you to explain vezoks motivations in claiming to save his partner day two in the way he did. Note: I never believed he was the cause for the missing night kill night one, but the way in which he did it didn't sound to me like someone going oh hey partner I saved you wink wink.
really? you don't really have to go that far out on a limb for this.
pretty much imp's rebuttal is "nuh uh" which i don't find particularly compelling.
at this point, i think they're just giving vezok the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things b/c they want this tso thing to go though.
This is the part that's frustrating to me. I feel that right here, you've ignored my arguments completely whereas I don't feel I've ignored yours.
I'd also disagree with the second statement: what have I given Vezok the benefit of the doubt about, exactly?A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8049, T S O wrote:Let me lay this out so you can follow it easily:
It may be impossible for scum to confirm themselves as town.
It is not impossible, for newbscum in role madness, tothinkthey can confirm themselves as town.
What sort of role exists that could make newb-scum think they can confirm themselves as town?A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8054, T S O wrote:That's not my job - speculating on that leads nowhere, as we don't know. There are plenty of roles in this game that, to the inexperienced eye, could confirm them as town. Mine. F-16's. Others.
Remember, this point is about TWIE-town. I'm proving that that action has a scum scenario as well as a town one. That means you're going to have to re-analyse your TWIE read (or not - I'm sure people will notice that though!)
Now, you're right, we do need to move on to the rest of the case - can you get to that instead of arguing rubbish? That'd be great.
It's so awkward when your mislynch target starts pointing out your read flaws, isn't it?
How is F-16's role something that newbscum would think confirms themselves? Remember, things like "vig kill --> confirmed town" are very specific mafiascum meta assumptions and a newbie wouldn't hold the same belief.
You pointed out a scum scenario. I pointed out a town one. This is true. I pointed out why your scum scenario is unlikely (scum wouldn't believe they could confirm themselves as town because that scenario is impossible and there's no reason for anyone to believe that unless some ambiguous weird role interaction exists and would be talked about in a role PM that I just don't know about). I made a claim, I provided evidence. Now I'm hoping you will provide a claim AND evidence (shown me what role I'm thinking incorrectly about, explain why it makes sense to believe a completely impossible thing and then claim that completely impossible thing without clearing it through scumbuddies first), so we can move on.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8059, T S O wrote:Nothing I say is getting through, whatsoever, and this is not down to me simply selling it badly - you're just arguing for the sake of it.
You are correct: it's not because you're selling it badly. It's because you aren't selling it.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8060, Imperium wrote:What do you have interest discussing, TSO? It's not very fun talking with someone who suddenly disappears every time a hard question is asked :/
Why do you have this tendency, exactly? I understand why in this specific scenario, but then there's things like the earlier case against you that you just flat out ignored even though they seemed like valid rebuttals.
You say it's because you don't "care" about the arguments, but you get far more passionate in response to arguments you think are bad and have happily responded to those, so I don't actually think that's the case.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8064, T S O wrote:In post 8056, Imperium wrote:How is F-16's role something that newbscum would think confirms themselves? Remember, things like "vig kill --> confirmed town" are very specific mafiascum meta assumptions and a newbie wouldn't hold the same belief.
It's precisely because Blonde is a newbie and unused to MafiaScum meta assumptions that this entire scenario becomes possible. Blonde doesn't have to actually be able to confirm himself as scum. He just needs to think he can. If he was experienced, this wouldn't have happened.
Okay. So you believe that Blonde as scum would genuinely believe that he could fake confirm himself as town in the game thread. You think this is a likely scenario because he's unfamiliar with Mafiascum meta and wouldn't understand what "confirming" actually meant. You believe this is corroborated based on TWIE not having a role he could use to confirm himself immediately.
I believe that Blonde as scum wouldn't believe he could confirm himself as town because that scenario (scum confirming themselves as town) is impossible because confirming yourself as town means showing that you are town 100% (or unhealthilty close to it) and that's impossible when you are scum because that's how games work. I believe it is unlikely for him to believe he was confirmed town and say it in thread because that's the type of thing you mention to your scumpartners before you claim it and I simply can't comprehend a role scum could possess that would make newb-scum think that they are town.
I don't think there are any significant points that can sway one side strongly towards the other. I'm happy with an agree to disagree here, but it doesn't mean my side is absolutely irrelevant or trash because you don't agree with it, since you couldn't refute my logic definitively.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8064, T S O wrote:
In post 8056, Imperium wrote:You pointed out a scum scenario. I pointed out a town one. This is true. I pointed out why your scum scenario is unlikely (scum wouldn't believe they could confirm themselves as town because that scenario is impossible and there's no reason for anyone to believe that unless some ambiguous weird role interaction exists and would be talked about in a role PM that I just don't know about).
This is where you start to fall off the rails and sound illogical. You keep tossing in words like "impossible" when not only is what I'm proposing not impossible, it's barely even implausible. When you start saying things like this, I begin to feel I'd be best peddling my wares elsewhere because you're either scum or town with a completely closed mind, which is probably more dangerous than the former.
Confirmed town means that a player can not be scum. It is impossible to be confirmed town and also scum. I don't understand what's difficult to understand about this point in particular.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8065, T S O wrote:I am not "running away when hard questions are asked". I'm questioning whether my free time is worth spending on this game where I am the de facto lynch today for reasons which are not particularly compelling.
You've invested a considerable amount of time into the game already. You've chosen to respond to the lurking accusation, you've responded to what you thought was a "your play looks like this one" accusation: you clearly don't mind responding to arguments you think are bad. So why have you ignored the arguments you have? Is your free time only worth responding to bad points and not good ones?A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8066, T S O wrote:You're so busy pushing my lynch through and attempting to gather momentum I'm working on derailing that you can't actually take on board what I am saying about TWIE/vezok to be true or acknowledge it as being true, because to do so would derail my wagon even further. You can deny that, but it is 100% true.
You haven't said anything about vezok except what I've proven (yes, proven) to be stupid. We are talking about TWIE now, but you also haven't really said anything about him except for the hypocritical lylo thing and that reason didn't exactly excite me.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8068, Heartless wrote:also, gotta' love that you're calling for our vig based on an associative even though you said you don't think tso is scum
I don't think it's an unreasonable to assume that vezok developed a scum read on TSO when TSO started pushing him, especially considering the only reason he suspects you is because you're pushing him.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8069, T S O wrote:That's another example of vezok's reads being completely fucking false, but I'm sure Imperium can justify it.
The associative thing?
I thought you thought vezok was scumreading you? A couple of your posts certainly imply it.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8081, T S O wrote:In post 8078, Imperium wrote:In post 8066, T S O wrote:You're so busy pushing my lynch through and attempting to gather momentum I'm working on derailing that you can't actually take on board what I am saying about TWIE/vezok to be true or acknowledge it as being true, because to do so would derail my wagon even further. You can deny that, but it is 100% true.
You haven't said anything about vezok except what I've proven (yes, proven) to be stupid. We are talking about TWIE now, but you also haven't really said anything about him except for the hypocritical lylo thing and that reason didn't exactly excite me.
The point ended up coming to a standstill, but the fact is vezok did protect Cephrir n1.
I've seen it said somewhere this was a Rolestopper - if anything, this implicates vezok more heavily, given that Cephrir alone of the flipped scum could really really not afford to be tracked etc.
Why is vezok town again? Indulge me.
I will be happy to address this once we're done talking about TWIE. I feel this style has gotten closer resolution more than anything else ever has, so I'm probably going to stick with it.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8082, mastin2 wrote:
Funny, I'm the same way.In post 7967, Imperium wrote:I know you can't see it and I know you can't fully trust it, but this game makes me feel tired.
Entirely different causes, but I do understand this much, I assure you, because I know where you're coming from even if the why is different.
I'd love that, too. I don't think we can make it happen today, though, to be perfectly honest. I'd love it if it could, but at this stage, I just think that we need a flip one way or the other.I would be much happier if we could actually mesh for once.
I think we can. I'm willing to do anything in my power to get us closer to that point: all you have to do is let me know what I can do.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8085, T S O wrote:When I called vezok out on it, in #7693, he said he was not expecting me to flip scum.
If his view has changed, it hasn't been particularly well documented in his ISO, given #7693 was his sixth-last post or so.
That's fair. I think I know where he's coming from, but would rather he explain it.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8086, mastin2 wrote:
And I have no feelings about it other than a feeling that I want to stay off the wagon for some reason.In post 7969, Imperium wrote:But Ifeelgood about this lynch, and I feel in my heart that he's going to flip scum.
I am--I'm not fighting the lynch. That's what I'd be doing if I wasn't placing faith in you already. I'd be fighting you right now, trying to defend TSO. But I'm not.Please, give me a chance.
I just...don't think that I can allow myself to join you on it. I'm sorry, but I can't muster up the will. I understand your feeling. I want to trust it. But my own feeling keeps me from just pressing the vote (or even bold) tags with TSO's name in them.
And now instead of you being the crazy one, I am.
You're not crazy: that makes a lot of sense, I understand that actually getting in the wagon would be a big step and I don't mind you not being on it, I just want your approval before the lynch, and I feel I have that. I do think the game will be more straightforward once we have another flip and the result of your bees, and hopefully those things can get us on the same page if not end the game outright.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8090, T S O wrote:In post 8073, Imperium wrote:There was a specific reason I asked Drixx that question. I would still like Drixx to answer that question.
I have a feeling I'm going to be underwhelmed at a rehash of a reason you're scumreading me, but go for it.
In post 8076, Imperium wrote:So why have you ignored the arguments you have? Is your free time only worth responding to bad points and not good ones?
I cannot respond to all the arguments calling me scum. I see no reason to think addressing these arguments, convincingly or not, will have any effect on the vast majority of the playerbase. So I choose to allot my time to scumhunting rather than defending myself.
Defending myself in this game is the nature equivalent of retreating to my tortoise shell, inviting in the predators, while birds of prey like you and ZeL1nk soar around in the air. I'm putting up significant resistance, it's taking a damn long time, but in the bitter end, due to circumstances the final result remains the same.
Scumhunting, however, is like the tortoise coming back out of its shell gripping a Magnum revolver - it might not be able to down the birds but it'll do its best to tear some fucking holes in their wings before it goes down, fighting like all good tortoises should.
I don't understand why you chose the arguments you chose to respond to: it felt like you chose arguments that had pretty obvious responses and ignored ones that weren't so open and shut. I understand why you don't respond to all of them, just wondering why you chose to ignore the ones you did.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8104, Heartless wrote:In post 8080, Imperium wrote:In post 8068, Heartless wrote:also, gotta' love that you're calling for our vig based on an associative even though you said you don't think tso is scum
I don't think it's an unreasonable to assume that vezok developed a scum read on TSO when TSO started pushing him, especially considering the only reason he suspects you is because you're pushing him.
Actually, I do think it's pretty unreasonable.
The much more accessible theory here is us being scum is that TSO is town and we're scum whiteknighting him right now for town cred when he flips.
I'm saying that was a reasonable explanation for vezok finding TSO scum: when TSO pointed out that explanation was wrong, I shut up.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8154, T S O wrote:It's you taking the inflection wrong, sweetheart.
I don't think the inflection exists that could make that point a good one.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8159, Espeonage wrote:Someone bring me up to date. My neighbourhood is as hard to read as the main thread right now.
Espy.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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I feel like this is a dance my no rhythm having self could do!A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Soooooooooooooo
Heartless
Hey heartless
Yeah, you
Is there a reason why you throw out statements, but when I ask you to explain or articulate why you think things you stick your fingers in your ears and go lala lalala, and ignore it but spend most of your time trying to poke holes in others thoughts without actually saying why you think the alternative is more likely?
I'm seeing you saying a bunch of stuff, using words that demonstrate you actually do know how to think and construct thoughts, but I not actually seeing much in the way of actuslly trying to solve the game.
IF you guys are actually town, color me a whole crayon box full of disappointed.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 7378, Heartless wrote:There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.
In post 7383, Heartless wrote:It's not particularly synergistic nor is there a notable degree of interaction in the main thread.
It doesn't look like a town bloc, swim like a town bloc, or quack like a town bloc.
I'd also like to talk about this.
I asked you to tell me how much skepticism you think you should be seeing that you're not seeing. I don't know why you ignored that.
I'd also like to talk about the second point. Nacho did a good job of pointing out that this is incorrect, but I'm interested in talking to you about the impetus behind the claim.
Until falcon was modkilled there was plenty, and more than I'd have liked interaction between the two of us.
As for the others. Are you actually making a claim we, as a neighborhood, aren't interacting enough? You do realize that we are the only slot in the neighborhood not to have been replaced right? How much interaction did you suppose we should have done with bitmap when he portaled day one and lurked then got replaced day two? Or TD who lurked a lot then got replaced?
and considering we have a neighborhood where we can interact, I don't see why us not overly interacting inn the main thread would be an issue. How much in the main thread interaction have you or anyone really been doing in the main thread.
I also don't get the town block accusation. We never claimed to be a town block. I, in particular, don't advocate town blocks in the first place. You can town read someone and not be in a town block. Zelink and U.S. seem to be on the same page, but not exactly sure where espy stands as he's a bit behind.
Do you want is to have skepticism or do you want us to be a town block? And there are neighborhoods here who are claiming all town neighborhoods with a much higher degree than we are, and they're not town blocking, so some of this feels like kitchen sink for the sole purpose of making arguments against us but that don't really make a whole lot of sense when looked at in context.
You might not feel this way any more, and that's cool, but I still want you to explain where you were coming from because I'm trying like hell to get a read on you.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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I'm disappointed that I've seen (I think?) tth post on site and it looks like I'll be ignored again. See this is why it's not worth it to put yourself out there because rejection sucks!
Skybird - you'll find a friend in zelink on the snowflake issue.
Also, this head (nacho, obviously) really just posted to post and spite magua *tonguewag* and also cuz I'm excited as fuck that I scheduled my defense today.
Oh twie is still probably town, aceofspades isn't. Oh oh oh you want further proof aceofspades is not town? Who argued against his lynch day one and came up with a really good reason he was town day two? Me...nacho...because I can't help but derail scum wagons and town read people for silly shit!A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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I, nacho, have some doubts. I can't help what a waffler I am though.
Tammys keeping me in check and demands we keep our vote there and look for no alternatives. But, you know what a tunneler she is. Also, not about to fight the issue with her, have you ever seen her rage? Scarey.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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If you're suggesting something illegal, you should wait for Tammy. She's the rebel. I'd never do a signature bet, hypothetical or otherwise because RULES ARE RULES.
You can tell me who you think is scum though!
I can make Tammy draw you a pretty picture on paint if you're toen though!A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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In post 7977, T S O wrote:Don't waste your fucking vig shot on me, it doesn't work. Lynch me and shoot TWIE.
In post 8275, T S O wrote:I am warning you, my lynch isn't going to work. Do not target me with that ability.
This is not bravado.
FUCK YOU YOU SON OF A BITCH I AM BANANA SAM AND BANANA SAM LISTENS TO NO MAN AND DEFINITELY NOT SOME FUCKING MACHINEA hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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In post 8385, Drixx wrote:In post 8379, Imperium wrote:Espy I'm really really really sure zelink is town.
I'll eat my hat if he's not.
Will you want some mustard with that? Regular or horshradish hot?
(I'm not actually convinced Zelink is scum but ... my gosh there is some scummy mcscumerson posts out of him today).
I'll even put ketchup on it, and I don't like ketchup.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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Imperium Jack of All Trades
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In post 8465, ZeL1nK2 wrote:So you think Imperium, my master, the scum lord, the slayer of innocents and defiler of all that is sacred and town, has a grand plan that involves not wanting to get rid of a potential threat and would rather push a mislynch on a useless slot?
Who's the scum team, again? And why are they not better lynches?
Your loyalty will not go unrewarded.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!-
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In post 8529, Heartless wrote:the flipless circlejerk continues...
can we lynch this shit?
Like ffs.A hydra of Nacho and Tammy!