SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Solar Wind]

Given that there's 24 hours left in the day I think the time for voting is nao. Also I support an AngryPidegon vote and so should you.

F-16 should be back in an hour. I don't think that amount of wait before we put a vote back down is catastrophic.

I expect that AP is where we'll vote after we talk.

[Solar Wind]

The list was f-16's. Directionally I agree with all the reads, but the strengths are different in some cases. My major scumreads have partially cratered in the last couple hours. I haven't tried to re-grok the game just yet. I think the same is/will be the case for F-16, too.

The vyse/heartless slot isn't a townread by any means, but I think antihero's alignment will become obvious quickly once he starts posting.

mastin read has gone town

Ceph read has gone more and more townish for me over the last couple of days.. Not sure about f-16. He had a stronger scumread in the first place.

AP was a paranoia read and his lack of presence has given me hives. I'm totally comfortable voting there.

I don't have a skybird town read, but I'm willing to wait and see and maybe do some meta-ing tomorrow.

I don't have a pere townread and I've been willing to consider him most of the game day. I don't think f-16 wants to go there today.

my read of you has faded some. You've been quiet and other players have been more vocal.

[Solar Wind]

I'm strongly against lynching PeregrineV because of how easy it is to get a read on him once he starts getting active.

Is this not true of a player in this game?
If so, who?

Mastin. I'm notoriously bad at reading Mastin.

[Solar Wind]

i'd vote beastcharizard.
i would rather vote peregrine.

Beast has sort of dropped off my radar so I'm going to have to think on it.

Peregrine is breaking my heart and it wouldn't terribly surprise if he actually winded up being scum here I guess. I remember the last few games I played with PV:

Tales: Had him as strong town D1.
Serum and Steel: Didn't have as strong town as I claimed D1 but still reasonably sure he wasn't on the other scumteam.
Final Fantasy 10: I strong-townread SerialKiller-PV so in a way it was a misread, but in a way I was right that he wasn't groupscum.

Here, three weeks of D1 has nearly come to an end and I don't have that townread I hoped for. You may be right and he's just actually scum but I'm still holding on to that thread of hope that he'll actually town it the fuck up.

[Solar Wind]

maybe angrypidgeon.
maybe.
i wanted to see his reaction to my mastin push, didn't get it.

mastin's town though!

This is a push I can probably actually get behind. My scumread faded a bit but better than the other alternatives. Out of my townreads, the one I'm second guessing the most is Farside and that's one of the reasons my AP read faded.

[Solar Wind]

have to go now

but i'm now sitting here with shit covering my hands and nowhere to go b/c metal is obvscum but i can't lynch him and ceph is already slathering me in feces in the neighborhood pt

And what's your read on Ceph? Also, did you read my case on him/his response? What's your general opinion on how that turned out?

[Solar Wind]

why can't we lynch beastcharizard?

oh or ank would be better i guess

or tso?

Still thinking on Beast.
Not Ank because the way he dropped the Nacho-tell was convincingly genuine.
TSO is my weakest townread. He could actually be scum.

I'm not sure whether I prefer TSO to Beast.

[Solar Wind]

I kinda like tso

(also I don't know if nacho got it but I sent him a message that they were trying to get a lynch on rach, so if he was still town reading her he should come help.)

Don't worry Tammy, I won't let the bad people come near Rach.

[Solar Wind]

beast is a much better lynch than tso.

I saw your thoughts on Beast move from a townread to a scumread but what of TSO's posting felt town?

I actually prefer TSO to Beast but it is a weak preference and it wouldn't hugely surprise me if Beast winded up being scum.

[Solar Wind]

beast is a much better lynch than tso.

softclaim screams town
tso not doing shit except lazy vote on us for the not conniving bastards thing sucks

You think TSO doesn't do shit as scum? Because scum-TSO can actually put loads of effort into the game.

correct lynch of the day is probably just peregrine.
there's a lot to analyze in other people's play/reasons not to lynch them right now
let's not lynch peregrine because possibility of added utility down the road is meh and bleh

Um, no. That's not my primary reason for not wanting to lynch Peregrine. My reason is that when he actually does get active, it will be easy to tell whether he's town or scum. Lynching him before that happens is suboptimal. I've since become less and less confident that he will town it up but not to the extent that I'll push his lynch D1.

[Solar Wind]

I don't want to lynch Mask.

A point of agreement! Although I don't remember why I don't want to lynch Mask.

[Solar Wind]

VOTE: peregrine

It seems like you're just voting everyone that Nacho suggests we lynch...

[Solar Wind]

I'd love a flashwagon but not on myself or Beast. I don't know why the Vyse wagon derailed - his replace-out doesn't make sense.

Yeah, but Anti's already towned it up. Moderately. Will see how that progresses.

[Solar Wind]

i'll type up a town case when i have time.
why not compromise on a null read? TD isn't getting lynched today.

Will you compromise on AP or TSO with me?

[Solar Wind]

Man this thread is moving fast. I could agree to a ZZZX lynch. PV feels more town to me than scum. That's based on the last game we were in together. He sounds like he did in that game and he was town.

Explain your townread on PV. I wish I had one.

[Solar Wind]

One cannot be ??? AT BEST - one is just ???. Pere is not scum with a chance of ??? - Pere is ???, full stop.

And you're asserting that it's better to have no case than a bad case because... logic?

Generally, I read someone as somewhere on a sliding scale from confirmed scum to null to confirmed town. When someone is null at best, it means that treating them as 50% scum or 50% town is my most favorable interpretation of their posting.

I am not asserting anything about no case > bad case. I don't want to lynch Tiphaine because he is town. I don't particularly care about cases on him (unless they are good and change my mind) because I have a townread on him. I don't particularly care about finding a great case at this point in time: instead, I'm looking for a decent to good lynch.

See, this is the thing that bothers me so much about your slot. Are you townreading AceOfSpades? Why is he town? I'm townreading him and I have my reasons but as far as I'm concerned, you have provided none.

And yet you showed up at deadline with all your passion in full flow so you can save Ace and push a meh lynch of PV who you're not even reading as solid scum. Why wouldn't town-Nacho just let Ace get lynched? Is Ace SO much more town than PV? Do you think town will benefit from lynching a deadline lynch of your personal choice who is a null read as opposed to the one EVERYONE wants to lynch (Ace) who is also a null-read (apparently)? Because I haven't seen you say one single thing about why Ace is town.

[Solar Wind]

beast is a much better lynch than tso.

softclaim screams town
tso not doing shit except lazy vote on us for the not conniving bastards thing sucks

You think TSO doesn't do shit as scum? Because scum-TSO can actually put loads of effort into the game.

correct lynch of the day is probably just peregrine.
there's a lot to analyze in other people's play/reasons not to lynch them right now
let's not lynch peregrine because possibility of added utility down the road is meh and bleh

Um, no. That's not my primary reason for not wanting to lynch Peregrine. My reason is that when he actually does get active, it will be easy to tell whether he's town or scum. Lynching him before that happens is suboptimal. I've since become less and less confident that he will town it up but not to the extent that I'll push his lynch D1.

I know tso does shit as scum. I know tso does shit as town. I also know his activity is directly correlated to emotional investment and that can sometimes be harder to find as scum than town.

''

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=48144

[Solar Wind]

I'm open to lynching AP on the basis of play because I don't townread much in his posts. I don't particularly want to lynch him because he can be one of the strongest town players in the game, but at this point, I would.

Me too!

[Solar Wind]

Is that an active TSO-scum game? If so, useless.

It is.

[Solar Wind]

Farside seems pretty town in general, not touching that.

Meh. I had a townread earlier but some of her later posts gave me second thoughts. I doubt she's actually viable though.

[Solar Wind]

ITT Nacho decides to vote no one.

i'd vote ap.
i'd vote beastcharizard.
i'd vote mask.

who would you vote?

That's actually a way better pool than what you put out earlier. I'd vote AP.

[Solar Wind]

Because vysepresident is now heartless and I want to give them time to do something more useful than vyse did.

As for why not revote, we'll do that after f-16 and I talk. Right now, I kinda want to vote AP, as I indicated a few posts ago.

Sounds like a plan.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

Heading to my next class. Hopefully you didn't already waffle on this read, Ffery. I haven't read the last few pages.

[Solar Wind]

I haven't! No guarantees, though!

[Solar Wind]

@ Mod

, do you mind including a countdown timer in your votecounts? It'd be more precise + having it in the votecounts makes it easier to access.

[Solar Wind]

One of the issues I had with VP was that no one really seemed interested in that lynch despite all the lurkers getting the attention. Hopefully Antihero shows up and towns up that slot though.

[Solar Wind]

Choice is good. Everyone compromising onto voting one wagon isn't terribly helpful. I'd be more interested in seeing which of the top wagons the solitary voters and non-voters vote for.

[Solar Wind]

I'd like opinions on VP/Heartless as well. Kind of annoyed that they broke their word that they would post tonight and also that everyone somehow seemed to be avoiding VP as a lynch candidate and beating around the bush with respect to him. I don't know if that lynch is viable or even whether I would vote there before giving them a chance to catch up but I still want thoughts.

[Solar Wind]

Votecount 21: DAWN OF THE FINAL DAY OF THE FIRST DAY

Theaceofspades (5): AngryPidgeon, vezokpiraka, xombie, Rachmarie, ZZZX
AngryPidgeon (3): theaceofspades, Magua, Imperium, Solar Wind
beastcharizard (3): Skybird, Cephrir, The Mask
RachMarie (3): Ooba, PeregrineV, Farside22
TiphaineDeath (2): Mastin2, TSO
Cephrir (2): TiphaineDeath, FourTrouble
FourTrouble (2): Aeronaut
Skybird (0): beastcharizard

Not voting: Heartless, Ankamius


Reminder that it's 12 to lynch and not 13.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-02-06 22:30:00)

Tick Tock!

Ace is a townread for both of us but not an insanely strong one and while we won't vote there, it'll affect the lengths to which I'll go to derail the wagon.

We're voting AP. I don't have as strong a scumread on AP as in Tales but it feels like the best bet for reasons I posted earlier.

Beast is a super weak townread but I could easily be wrong and won't cry if he's lynched but not a preferred lynch.

Rach: Super strong townread + I promised I'd keep the bad guys away from you so won't vote + will annoy people who vote Rach.

[Solar Wind]

UNVOTE:

Sorry guys. Both heads have serious reservations about this wagon and we're reconsidering. I just don't feel the scumvibes from AP overall at this point. Ffery feels the same way.

[Solar Wind]

VOTE: Heartless

All Anti's done this game despite promising content is to complain about how a player that isn't in the game at the moment and can't be lynched is obviously scum and has no thoughts or opinions on anyone in the game. TellTaleHeart hasn't showed up for her meeting with this game thread either. We'll move this vote if they town it up tomorrow but until then.

Doesn't help that VP was scummy as fuck even among the complete lack of content he provided.

[Solar Wind]

Our concern is that scum-AP would do more to derail the wagon on him as opposed to lie down and let it go through. He's been posting onsite but hasn't posted here. And it would be reasonably easy for him to divert the wagon if he wants. I'd say it was fairly fragile.

Vote Heartless. If they town it the hell up, I'll compromise on Beast. We're never going to no lynch. Worst case, the compromises fail and we'll wind up lynching Ace but even that'll give us info. Anti's disappearance doesn't feel like town-Anti though. Thoughts?

[Solar Wind]

I was expecting Anti to do what Anti normally does. I was expecting your hydra to do what you do in the games I've read of you. I was hoping you would get your head into the game and influence the D1 lynch rather than stay in your shell and let it happen with no input from you.

[Solar Wind]

Hello people I don't know (and AP and mastin)!

I'm going to be reading this on and off today and will likely get to posting tonight. But, as usual, Anti gets the first crack at it. See you later!

be back in an hour for some quality eyeball flicking

You said you would do it in less. I was scumreading your predecessor which colored my thoughts on your slot a bit.

[Solar Wind]

ffery here. I'm not expecting miracles.

And we gave you something more than zero latitude. I told f-16 that I liked that anti immediately asked about the vote oddity, though that was something that might have been discussed in your neighborhood or scum thread. The long silence since then was concerning.

So is your showing up to post again right after we revoted you.

What do you plan to do with the remaining time, catch-up wise?

[Solar Wind]

UNVOTE:

Sorry guys. Both heads have serious reservations about this wagon and we're reconsidering. I just don't feel the scumvibes from AP overall at this point. Ffery feels the same way.

Even I have reservations against AP, but at some point you got to compromise\choose. Apart from a very few slots {FT, Pere, ZZZX} - most slots have done something that's given me a brief town ping at times.

The reason you're pushing heartless is bad. They've barely been in the game. Even otherwise, I'm leaning town on that slot. I thought Vyse-scum wouldn't have been as useless as he was - and if Vyse scum actually went the 'Oh - I'm going to post notes.' followed by 'Sorry. Don't have time' - that's a very dick move to his replacement.

It looked like a dick move, regardless of alignment.

Is the town-lean because of how he replaced out?

[Solar Wind]

ffery here. I'm not expecting miracles.

And we gave you something more than zero latitude. I told f-16 that I liked that anti immediately asked about the vote oddity, though that was something that might have been discussed in your neighborhood or scum thread. The long silence since then was concerning.

So is your showing up to post again right after we revoted you.

What do you plan to do with the remaining time, catch-up wise?

I'm giving this game my attention this morning and I'm not sure what Antihero's got going. I'm sure if he's on MS, he'll be reading this game too.

Anti's "silence" was site-wide last night so your suggestion that he's avoiding this game because we're scum is slanderous.

this feels like an overreaction. All I can really do is compare your replace in to what I've done in the past when replacing in with a short time to deadline. I haven't meta'd you, but by reputation you're a dedicated player.

[Solar Wind]

What was over reactive about it?

"slanderous"

[Solar Wind]

Is the town-lean because of how he replaced out?

Well not entirely. He's also part of my neighbourhood and from what I gathered, he fit the mould of a 'thinking'+'courteous' player. I think he was town who really wanted to play but RL got in the way. My read on his playstyle\character is that he would have replaced out a *long* time back if he was scum since he would have considered himself a burden to his buddies.
[But nothing too solid here - just enough to lean town and say I would prefer others over him today.]

ok.

UNVOTE:

we'll confer asap and decide whether we're comfortable putting our vote back on ap. I have serious qualms that a player with his caliber of scum game would just let a wagon roll over him without any response at all.

[Solar Wind]

this feels like an overreaction. All I can really do is compare your replace in to what I've done in the past when replacing in with a short time to deadline. I haven't meta'd you, but by reputation you're a dedicated player.

Well that's just not true.

You

could

have checked site-wide activity for last night for Antihero. You chose not to and now

I'm

not allowed to be annoyed that my time is now being consumed by having to defend things like what I was doing last night and what time I woke up this morning?

I don't think either of us said or implied that Anti was

avoiding

the game thread.

It's more nuanced than that.

[Solar Wind]

Also, I'd appreciate the hell out of it if you'd actually stop defending "things" and go catch up and put some thoughts into the thread.

[Solar Wind]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=48144

AAA is a pretty good example of this, actually.

Is that an active TSO-scum game? If so, useless.

If you mean the example is useless, I'd disagree. The d1 lynch was basically me. And I continued doing stuff like pushing Riptide in LyLo.
If you're calling my play useless, cheers, I guess... though I did win, so it seems an unfair comment.

I think nacho meant it was a useless game in terms of demonstrating that you can be inactive as both alignments.

[Solar Wind]

The best defense against that kind of attack is to do stuff.

Which is what I want. Because it's a lot easier to discern alignment from content.

[Solar Wind]

Um, Anti. I have not posted at all on the previous page (this is F-16 btw).

@ FT, no idea. Who's on your shortlist?

[Solar Wind]

Anti, I don't think Ffery was "crowding TTH." I think she was suggesting that TTH spend time reading the thread and I can see where she's coming from about TTH calling it "slanderous" being an overreaction.

We've unvoted now though. Looking forward to your catch up. Hopefully the mod extends the deadline.

[Solar Wind]

Would you have been annoyed if it was me who wrote the last page?

[Solar Wind]

hey f16

fuck you

don't give me any lip about how you're giving anybody latitude, you're crowding tth by accusing her of beetlejuicing and nitpicking at her word choice.

That wasn't f-16.

I backed off even though I felt like tth simplified my stance into a strawman. Now you're kinda doing the same thing.

I'm waiting for data. We'll go from there.

[Solar Wind]

Do you have a townread on AP now?

What's your read on Farside?

[Solar Wind]

So, update:

We've both changed our mind on AP and at this point it feels like both the top wagons are going to be mislynches and I want to give Heartless time to catch up so won't be voting there either.

I'm indifferent between AP and TAOS but Ffery has a preference for not lynching AP as he can be more useful as town.

I prefer lynching Beast so I'll vote there if a wagon builds up. Otherwise, we've resigned ourselves to the notion that The Ace Of Spades is probably going to wind up lynched.

[Solar Wind]

@AP

if we kick the wheels off your wagon and you continue to be a lurksack on day 2 then I hope to hell you get lynched/vigged in short order.

[Solar Wind]

ISO'ing Beast, I still don't have a strong read there. Major points:

- The unexplained TSO townread. I'm not sure where he got this from but his "when I have a read like that, I drive it home to death" makes me that either think this is usual for his towngame or that since he knows it is, he's attempting to fake it here.

- The outing of his role. He complains that House was anti-town to out his role and he would have used it on scum. Also insists it makes him town. Not a lot to read there especially with no meta basis.

- Beyond that, there are a couple of posts I don't like. Asking FT in Post 558 if he's being useful. Telling TSO that TSO "gets" him in Post 1689. This ties into the unexplained townread and feels manipulative. Besides that, there's barely anything readable. Going to do a quick meta dive to see what I can find.

[Solar Wind]

Is there a reason for a lynch being perfectly fine beyond it being not on lynchbait? Because it is hard to consider your reads when you haven't read the thread.

[Solar Wind]

Are you talking to us/Ffery? No, I thought the lack of him putting up resistance to the wagon didn't feel like scum-AP. This isn't how I'd expect to lynch scum-AP based on Tales. Ffery pointed the same thing at the same time. And overall just not feeling it + if he's scum, I'll figure it out eventually.

[Solar Wind]

I'm leaning towards voting Beast over Ace though but I'm not sure on that. I have to leave but I'll be back in a couple of hours. Don't lynch anyone before I show up again.

[Solar Wind]

You changed your mind because he isn't posting...? You're correct that I think AP-town tends to give up earlier when there's a wagon against him, but it's a very vocal giving up in thread as opposed to just not responding when people are pushing a wagon on him.

so being a lurksack fits neither his town nor his scum meta closely, and for me, it's coming down to which alignment I think he's more likely to be apathetic about. And I think he's more likely to be apathetic as town.

[Solar Wind]

Are you talking to us/Ffery? No, I thought the lack of him putting up resistance to the wagon didn't feel like scum-AP. This isn't how I'd expect to lynch scum-AP based on Tales. Ffery pointed the same thing at the same time. And overall just not feeling it + if he's scum, I'll figure it out eventually.

Is this how you'd expect to lynch

town

AP?

If AP is town, we don't want to lynch him at all.

[Solar Wind]

VOTE: Beast

[Solar Wind]

It's not out of the question from a design perspective.

[Solar Wind]

If I had to guess a scum-team, I'd say Ceph, TD, mastin, and some lurkers.

Did you find Mastin's posting significantly different from Tales of You?

On Farside, my main issue was that as hard as I tried I can't differentiate between her case on Ace versus Rach's case on Ace and why she was suddenly convinced by me that Ace is town and then went after Rach instead and the Rach push felt super weak. Why is she town?

[Solar Wind]

You changed your mind because he isn't posting...? You're correct that I think AP-town tends to give up earlier when there's a wagon against him, but it's a very vocal giving up in thread as opposed to just not responding when people are pushing a wagon on him.

And why do you think scum-AP would just fade out of the thread if he's about to be lynched D1?

Also, same deal as in NY169? Don't nightkill me if you are scum.

[Solar Wind]

Is there a reason for a lynch being perfectly fine beyond it being not on lynchbait? Because it is hard to consider your reads when you haven't read the thread.

It's more: if I don't have a reason to be against the lynch, then I'm perfectly fine with it.

Eg RachMarie. I have no reason to be for RachMarie's lynch, seeing as she's posted like one or two things since I joined. I have no case. But I also have no reason to be against the lynch. So I'm perfectly fine with it.

People I'm against lynching: Mastin, Beastcharizard, PeregrineV, Cephrir, Imperium, Heartless.

I will happily vote the shit out of anyone else. My reason for voting AP over any of the others I could've possibly voted can best be summarized as "lolz".

---

As for reading the thread prior to my joining: I'm not going to.

And what are your reasons for the others? I'm assuming Beast and PV because lynchbait and Heartless because they just replaced in. But why Mastin, Cephrir, or Imperium?

[Solar Wind]

Okay. I'll be back in an hour or so and be here till deadline. Most important thing I'm waiting for is for FT to explain that Farside townread.

[Solar Wind]

Oh, and

please don't hammer anyone

. There's something else I wanted to do. Thanks.

[Solar Wind]

Votecount 23: I like you guys, but not that much.

AngryPidgeon (8): theaceofspades, Magua, Imperium, ooba, Vezokpiraka, Rachmarie, Ankamius, Heartless, TSO
Theaceofspades (3): AngryPidgeon, xombie, ZZZX
beastcharizard (4): Skybird, Cephrir, The Mask, Solar Wind
RachMarie (2): PeregrineV, Farside22
TiphaineDeath (1): Mastin2
Cephrir (2): TiphaineDeath, FourTrouble
FourTrouble (2): Aeronaut
Skybird (0): beastcharizard

Not voting:


Reminder that it's 12 to lynch and not 13.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-02-06 22:30:00)

Uh Oh!

It is L-4 just FYI.

[Solar Wind]

Pls hold off L-1 for now so we can have that convo with FT.

[Solar Wind]

If you want Solar Wind I can unvote to help make sure you have time. I plan to be around until we lynch or time runs out.

Thanks.

If I had to guess a scum-team, I'd say Ceph, TD, mastin, and some lurkers.

Did you find Mastin's posting significantly different from Tales of You?

On Farside, my main issue was that as hard as I tried I can't differentiate between her case on Ace versus Rach's case on Ace and why she was suddenly convinced by me that Ace is town and then went after Rach instead and the Rach push felt super weak. Why is she town?

I did ask you to quote both and explain how it is the same case.

Did you do that?

I don't think f-16 has done that yet.

[Solar Wind]

Your townread on Farside.

[Solar Wind]

Just trust me on farside for Today. Do you want my vote somewhere? I got to go. People are bitching at me.

Okay. I'll trust you. The leading wagons seem to be Beast and AP. We're voting Beast but not hugely confident either wagon will flip scum. I think AP has more votes/is at L-2.

[Solar Wind]

Am I the only one who found Ankamius's post to be jumping through a lot of mental hoops to conclude that AP was the best lynch?

[Solar Wind]

Am I the only one who found Ankamius's post to be jumping through a lot of mental hoops to conclude that AP was the best lynch?

How so?

Upon re-read, it didn't feel as scummy as I thought. But you are aware that you can't just divide people into "one scum on this wagon" and "one scum on that wagon" and such? Scum might block vote. They might refrain from voting. Anything's possible and it is not just as cut and dry.

[Solar Wind]

Ank's post isn't as scummy as I thought after skimming through his ISO a bit more, he voted the wagon where his townreads were voting. My first impression was that he was trying overly hard to justify a vote on the biggest wagon and had changed his stance on AP but I don't think he did.

[Solar Wind]

Votecount 23: I like you guys, but not that much.

AngryPidgeon (9): theaceofspades, Magua, Imperium, ooba, Vezokpiraka, Rachmarie, Ankamius, Heartless, TSO, Cephrir
Theaceofspades (2): AngryPidgeon, ZZZX
beastcharizard (4): The Mask, Solar Wind, FourTrouble, xombie
RachMarie (2): PeregrineV, Farside22
TiphaineDeath (1): Mastin2
Cephrir (2): TiphaineDeath
FourTrouble (2): Aeronaut
Skybird (0): beastcharizard

Not voting: Skybird


Reminder that it's 12 to lynch and not 13.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-02-06 22:30:00)

Uh Oh!

Updating this for reference.

[Solar Wind]

VOTE: AP

AP's wagon is extremely scumdriven.
NOT lynched a BP claim D1.

Of all the things that you could say about the AP-wagon, you want to comment on the BP claim? The claim is the nullest thing that came from AP.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin why aren't you responding to nacho when he's the main one pushing ap?

I was wondering this in our hydra PT.

[Solar Wind]

Wait, so you don't have a read on AP yet? I was under the impression that you were reading AP as town.

[Solar Wind]

The only thing I found town about Heartless was that they wanted the deadline extended which if they wanted to coast, they wouldn't have. Beyond that, it is just being courteous to Antihero and letting him catch up since he's easy to read.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin's defense made me want to vote AP for the past several minutes but waiting on what Ffery would say.

[Solar Wind]

You're attempting to use the deal in order to justify putting off your paranoia on me for another day, and that's just lazy play

I was kidding but hey, look at the upside.

[Solar Wind]

Yeah, it is probably Magua. (who doesn't have a vote).

[Solar Wind]

BULLETPROOF. ANGRYPIDGEON.

This is getting kinda ridiculous. AP claiming Bulletproof isn't alignment indicative.

[Solar Wind]

pretty sure it's magua who doesn't have a vote.

[Solar Wind]

I wrote a case on AP. Read my ISO.

[Solar Wind]

AP case, PART 1

Issues with Post 1037:
1. unjustified town read on Vezok. His agreement with TD feels weird.
2. hop onto farside feels opportunistic in light of Imperium's snark towards Farside.
3. His explanation of the Vezok read feels like a stretch. "Not caring about what other people say" is empty filler and could equally apply to lots of people.
4. His Xombie read is overexplained. The basis is weak, he's just throwing in random junk to say why Xombie is town.
5. His Imperium townread based on the paranoid meltdown feels mechanical. Like he wanted to find something he could unequivocally call town before townreading them.
6. His agreeing with Tammy about her read on me which I talked about before. Feels like fueling the flames.
7. The exchange he quoted which is just nonsensical rambling to pick a fight and cause a distraction.
8. Farside scumread is for too easy and mechanical a reason (scumreads on people unlikely to fight back).
9. Mild buddying to TSO.
10. Completely missing House's very town looking way of claiming to post nitpicky accusations on him.

Issues with Post 295:
1. The "hollow posting" line seems to be directed at me when Imperium said pretty much the same thing. He seems to want to pick a Tales-style fight.
2. Nothing about my post felt out-of-place in the context of what happened early game.

Issues with Post 380:
1. Claims that the hollow posting line was something scum do to look busy while ignoring that we were all doing it at the time. Later takes it back and says that it doesn't mean I'm scum.
2. Accusing me of buddying is kind of ridiculous since that's not how buddying is defined + how didn't Imperium's posts seem like buddying to him if that's how he defines it?

[Solar Wind]

fuck this game.

- f

[Solar Wind]

AP Case: Part 2

:

1)

You telling Tammy that you want to sort them is basically a non-statement.

This ignores context. This is in reference to my Post 77. This was a continuation of Ffery's Post 74 and was also meant to be a response to the interaction that I was having with Tammy up until that point. If this post was so scummy to AP, how did he completely ignore Ffery's Post 74 and Tammy's Post 53 which essentially do the same thing? He is selectively scumhunting by only picking at things he wants. Because if AP is town who legitimately believes that this is a non-statement, then he surely would have commented on these two posts as well as "non-statements."

I hope so! And I hope if so we find each other early and can work together. Ffery and I keep saying that we need to work together sooner when we're town reading each other to wreck scum teams. And I was telling Bulbazack last night that I haven't been happy with most of my town games from the past year and need to fix some of the things that have been bringing it down, and I'm hoping this is one of the games that I can turn some of that stuff around in.

Am I the only one who's not concerned? I didn't come into the game expecting to nail a read on Imperium down during confirmation stage. If you're town I want to figure it out quickly, though because I'd like to finally steamroll scum with you, Tammy.

2)

it'd be refreshing to actually see a game in general where people don't just buddy up to people they like for better or worse.

This is also pretty much nonsense. Saying that if someone is town, I want to figure it out quickly is not "buddying." People that know each other try to sort each other early. There's nothing odd or unusual about it. Also, if AP had an issue with my post, why does he not see the "buddying" that is inherent in Post 53? I disagree that it is buddying but from AP's definition, it should be - to him. So, there's more selective scumhunting and rhetoric.

3)

Stick your toes in the lake!, run through the sand barefoot! You don't have to always sit under the same tree and tell it that you really want to read it correctly this game.

Three issues with it. a) That's not what was happening. I was interacting with whoever was in the thread at the time. b) Tammy was the one responding to my post. c) Selective scumhunting that I mentioned earlier in that somehow Tammy wanting to sort me early escapes his notice entirely.

The rest of his post is filled with an irrelevant analogy about ETL and doing his own thing. He finishes by saying it is not relevant to my aligment. He has to. He can't repeat Tales of You by the book.

Now, I'm thinking either AP is scum or dumb town and some of the people agreeing with this horrendously bad analysis are scum. I would LOVE for TSO and Ceph to explain what they liked about this post.

[Solar Wind]

AP Case, PART 3

23)

AngryPidgeon

- Main issue is that his posts feel geared toward manipulation and the phrasing and direction of a lot of his sentences feel like he's either trying to gain allies among the town, or cause noise by arguing with people. Examples include the way he addressed Imperium in Post 391 and his encouragement of Xombie in Post 1033. AP's trajectory on Xombie also feels unnatural. Consider his early push in Post 295 when Xombie was receiving early pressure and confidence that Xombie is scum to encouraging Xombie and expressing concern about us in Post 1033 which feels like he is egging on the Solar/Xombie fight. His read on House is weak as well nitpicking on minor stuff like House grilling Ooba on his Rach-read and commenting on TD's inability to read him while missing the very, very town way in which House claimed his role. His read on Farside in Post 1037 partly for "filler comments" is super weak since Farside had provided an abundance of content despite a few filler posts and his other points on Farside are huge, huge stretches like where he insists that Farside having no townreads is scummy of her. The hydra-signing point is horrendous. Not to mention AP throws in his own filler posts at Imperium and bends over backwards to make it seem like he's on the same page. Hated the townread on TSO on Post 1053 for insulting Metal Sonic which feels like he's fanning the flames. The appeal to Mastin over not getting mislynched seems premature considering the suspicion of him wasn't strong at all although it could just be because it is me that's scumreading him. The scumreads on Metal Sonic and Farside is Post 1060 are lame as fuck. He's describing how MS-town should act and boxing him in to specific behaviors when there was nothing unnatural about MS assuming that TSO and Beast were Masons. His Farside read is based on null/playstyle tells and is manipulative as well considering he just sheeped Imperium's reasoning of "

Farside's taking shots from the sidelines.

" His AceOfSpades vote in Post 1083 is an opportunistic OMGUS. He also pre-emptively dismisses scumreads on Cephrir Post 1198 and Post 1437. The pushes on AceOfSpades and PV feel scum-motivated as AP knows Ace is probably an easy mislynch target and PV if not mislynched early will be a strong player late game. Overall, re-reading his ISO left me thinking he's likely scum although some of his interactions with me being vastly different from his previous scumgame makes me second guess this read a bit.

[Solar Wind]

Votecount 24: 1 vote 2 votes 3 votes muhahaha

AngryPidgeon (8): theaceofspades, Magua, Imperium, ooba, Vezokpiraka, Rachmarie, Ankamius, Heartless, TSO
beastcharizard (5): The Mask, Solar Wind, FourTrouble, Xombie, Cephrir
Theaceofspades (2): AngryPidgeon, ZZZX
RachMarie (2): PeregrineV, Farside22
FourTrouble (2): Aeronaut
TiphaineDeath (1): Mastin2
Cephrir (1): TiphaineDeath
Skybird (0): beastcharizard

Not voting: Skybird


Reminder that it's 12 to lynch and not 13.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-02-06 22:30:00)

Oh dear!

Solar Wind, tell me how many votes Skybird has on them right now. Now tell me I don't have a vote of zero. Or look at any fucking votecount I have been voting in. My vote is and always has been zero today.

I know that. But I thought house's vote was ganked earlier too.

[Solar Wind]

Solar Wind's case on AP is shit, by the way.
Just saying.

We stopped voting him last night iirc. iso us for why.

no lynch after three weeks is ridiculous.

[Solar Wind]

F-16 post.

Hey, Antihero. Regardless of anyone's alignment, fuck that govern. You don't get to show up two hours before deadline and topple over an entire three weeks worth of analysis with a govern.

If you don't want to do shit, don't do shit. I don't give a crap. But ffs, you are being the most anti-town prick in this game.

[Solar Wind]

Also, who the hell are you planning to govern the lynch to?

[Solar Wind]

Do you really think this lynch is happening because nothing? Becuaae I've worked my ass off for a majority of this game to get a lynch pool and guess fucking what it didn't come from nothing

I really want to comment here but I'll say it later in the neighborhood as we're on the same side with this ridiculous govern.

If he actually governs someone, he can die tomorrow for all I care.

[Solar Wind]

@ Imperium

, the more I read this thread, the more it is aching at me but why in the fuck do have Mastin as town?

[Solar Wind]

so if AP flips scum does that mean mastin's scum too?

Yes. But Mastin's probably scum even if AP flips town.

[Solar Wind]

can anyone give me a reason why we're doing this

was it that everyone was lurking....? or .......................................what?

Did you read my AP-case?

While I'm not superconfident he's scum, I also am not confident he's town.

Let's lynch AP and please don't for fucks sake, govern that lynch. It will at least give us info.

[Solar Wind]

so if AP flips scum does that mean mastin's scum too?

Yes. But Mastin's probably scum even if AP flips town.

Jesus Christ no

Okay Nacho. Care to explain why?

[Solar Wind]

can anyone give me a reason why we're doing this

was it that everyone was lurking....? or .......................................what?

lurking, terrible leading wagons and vanity wagons.

The usual.

[Solar Wind]

so if AP flips scum does that mean mastin's scum too?

Yes. But Mastin's probably scum even if AP flips town.

Jesus Christ no

Okay Nacho. Care to explain why?

Have you not read her most recent posting?

I have. There's definitely scum among {Mastin, Ceph, AP, Imperium}. Just don't know who at this point. And if Tammy has a problem with that, she can at least be happy that now I understand how she felt in Tales and won't give her crap about it ever again.

[Solar Wind]

Like I dunno glanced at the full scale rage meltdown in thread that looks nothing like any of her scumgames ever??

Why are you so completely ignoring Mastin's AP read if you are that confident that Mastin is town?

[Solar Wind]

can anyone give me a reason why we're doing this

was it that everyone was lurking....? or .......................................what?

lurking, terrible leading wagons and vanity wagons.

The usual.

well tth called theaceofspades wagon a steaming load of shit so i can believe that

who else was getting wagoned?

AP!

before I give you whiplash, understand that f-16 and I can barely keep consensus for 15 minutes at a time, and we tend to flash-react to every in-thread event in polar opposite directions. It settles with time.

Which we don't have.

[Solar Wind]

I have. There's definitely scum among {Mastin, Ceph, AP,

Imperium

}.

Actually, scratch Imperium.
There's scum among the other three.

[Solar Wind]

Wait, so you voted me and yet I am not in your defintely scum among group? Am I part of some other group called: "People you want to try and mislynch"?

This was at Solar Wind btw.

when we voted you, we thought you were scum. We did some meta research and compared notes and changed our minds.

[Solar Wind]

Okay, caught up with the spam.

Imperium, get a fucking grip.

We have fifteen minutes left.

Anti, please DO NOT govern anyone. Your power if you are town will be MUCH better later on in the game. I think AP should be lynched.

We will hammer AP when he gets to L-1. But I want to be the hammer.

This is important

[Solar Wind]

Wait, so you voted me and yet I am not in your defintely scum among group? Am I part of some other group called: "People you want to try and mislynch"?

This was at Solar Wind btw.

when we voted you, we thought you were scum. We did some meta research and compared notes and changed our minds.

What I don't see if a change of vote or unvote that reflects said change.

]
hmm. I thought we had.

We kinda wanted the hammer if AP gets lynched, so it's essentially a parked vote.

[Solar Wind]

Please spam puppies cephrir. The game thread needs it and I don't have the processing power to provide.

ARE YOU MAD? The thread is hard enough to catch up as it is. I'm just going to assume the scumteam is Mastin/Ceph/AP/you and chainlynch all of you.

[Solar Wind]

Anti, please DO NOT govern anyone. Your power if you are town will be MUCH better later on in the game. I think AP should be lynched.

it's not EXACTLY a govern, but it fucks w/ the voting. i hate those powers.

you rly think i should keep it?

Yes, yes, yes, please. AP needs to be lynched and

we need to be the HAMMER.

[Solar Wind]

ooba, was AP in your neighborhood?

[Solar Wind]

@ap: the reason I asked for the hydra's to sign there post there was a discussion in my neighborhood and wondered who was posting. Some post from the hydra read a bit strange coming from Tammy that I wondered and it's easy to say it was not really Tammy.

As for my reads I did say town, null or not enough info.
The reason for my each scum read early is seen in this game and as you quoted from me xombie's delay vote struck me as scummy.

I think there were only 2 hydras in the game at the point where you asked hydras to sign their posts. Neither of us are in a neighborhood with you.

[Solar Wind]

'mkay

VOTE: metal sonic

we're lynching this today can't believe anyone who sat through organic chemistry didn't

Anti, I'm kinda confused by your reaction to my grilling TTH the day after you guys joined. You seemed really pissed at f-16 when you thought they were his posts, but when he said the posts were mine, you didn't really follow up? reading back through that overnight, I couldn't figure out what you were thinking there.

[Solar Wind]

is this a game i'm going to lose friends over? b/c that's awesome. i don't need those anyway.

I'm super sorry anti!

I wasn't yelling at you in that post, everything was moving so fast. It was directed to falcon.

Sand castles?

Thanks for clarifying!

[Solar Wind]

'mkay

VOTE: metal sonic

we're lynching this today can't believe anyone who sat through organic chemistry didn't

Can you elaborate on this or have TTH do it?

[Solar Wind]

Not sure where the Metal Sonic hate is coming from. There were a few posts that I didn't like in his entrance but nothing overwhelmingly objectionable.

[Solar Wind]

ooba, was AP in your neighborhood?

Nope. If my calculations are correct, AP is in a three person neighbourhood. One person is 'The Mask' and one of {5. Theaceofspade, 10. ZZZX, 19. Ankamius}.

Re-read the game - House(Magua) is surely town. I also feel much better about FourTrouble and farside.

I'd be down with a MS lynch.

Vote: MS

Also, TD's bramble is probably his own use.

What do you think about Ceph fake-crumbing lie detector yesterday? I thought the simplest explanation was that AP had claimed that ability in your neighborhood. Several things fell together with that assumption. I need to think about how things look without the assumption.

[Solar Wind]

It was such a shiny theory. I'm a little sad.

There could be such a mechanic, but AP's flip said something about self-aligned.

[Solar Wind]

It's irrelevant given AP wasn't part of your neighborhood.

[Solar Wind]

Neither am I.

[Solar Wind]

F-16 post. There were things that made me second guess my Cephrir read but I still think he's scum based on play. The LD thing is neither here nor there for me but I would absolutely lynch Cephrir and definitely over Metal Sonic.

People voting Metal Sonic really ought to explain their votes.

[Solar Wind]

Sure. I'd like your thoughts on the game so far.

[Solar Wind]

I'm curious if bitmap will agree with your self-assessment.

[Solar Wind]

Cephrir is town as fuck. What os wrong with you sw?

If you ever want to explain why, I'll be listening.

[Solar Wind]

Sup.

I remember you this time!

[Solar Wind]

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

[Solar Wind]

AP, please tell me you are kidding and not that you are scum again ready to mudsling into oblivion.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this, F16. You telling Tammy that you want to sort them is basically a non-statement. At least to me. The only potential reason I can see myself ever saying that is to try and look invested as scum. I'm not saying you are the same, cause you aren't, but from my PoV its just white-noise and it'd be refreshing to actually see a game in general where people don't just buddy up to people they like for better or worse. Stick your toes in the lake!, run through the sand barefoot! You don't have to always sit under the same tree and tell it that you really want to read it correctly this game. I dunno. Maybe I'm just the odd one out cause I like doing my own thing and I find it annoying when people (notably Especially the Lies) get pissy when I dont interact with them because we know each other. If you say things I find interesting or weird, I'll interact with you! Welp I wrote way too much about this since I don' even think the post in question is really relevant to your alignment in the first place.

This needs to be quoted somewhere, maybe hung up on a banner, maybe inscribed on a large stature beside the town hall.

Would vote TSO for this and not answering my question about this.

[Solar Wind]

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

Because it's the truth, and you damn-well KNOW it is.
AP was not groupscum.
Groupscum would have no clue AP was a third party. (Unless they did, in which case they'd want him dead EVEN MORE than town would.)
Thus, groupscum had every incentive to be on his lynch.

It was scumdriven.

He wasn't groupscum and I think you are right that the wagon blew up out of nowhere easily because there was scum on it.

But, I feel quite sure that you're wrong about Imperium.

But, I don't think his wincon is as benign as you're making it out to be.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin, there was something off about AP. It wasn't huge, but it was there. When I saw his flip, things about the game and about his play made sense to me.

I spent a lot of time looking through your trajectory on AP trying to see if you were so adamant defending him because you were scum and expected him to flip town.

I dismissed this mostly because of your comment about him being 25% town by play. You townread him because of other players' behavior.

That's one way of town reacting to what was off about his play. Another was to focus on what was off about him, not what was off about his wagon.

I am going to be every bit as opposed to an Imperium lynch as you were to the AP lynch.

[Solar Wind]

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

Because it's the truth, and you damn-well KNOW it is.
AP was not groupscum.
Groupscum would have no clue AP was a third party. (Unless they did, in which case they'd want him dead EVEN MORE than town would.)
Thus, groupscum had every incentive to be on his lynch.

It was scumdriven.

A Serial Killer lynch is not a mislynch.

[Solar Wind]

Skybird
Imperium

Why is your vote on Skybird then?

[Solar Wind]

(more votes for Metal Sonic[/b]

Did someone get a guilty on Metal Sonic?

[Solar Wind]

Please spam puppies cephrir. The game thread needs it and I don't have the processing power to provide.

ARE YOU MAD? The thread is hard enough to catch up as it is. I'm just going to assume the scumteam is Mastin/Ceph/AP/you and chainlynch all of you.

Why is Imp no longer scum? I would like to be as enlightened as you two one day. Please make me wiser, friends!

Pedit: well, how I view it is that scum knew AP was not aligned with them. For all they knew, they too would great it like a pending town lynch, unless they suspect multiball.

The post you quoted was mine (F-16's). I don't really think Imperium is scum but have been calling them scum for a variety of reasons ranging from paranoia to trolling. The latest post was a Ffery post. She's being more serious than me.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin, Ffery is right. AP's play felt scummy much like he did in Tales. If you read through my case(s) on him, I elaborate in more detail. He most certainly wasn't playing the way town-AP normally does and I don't think that he was playing to support a town wincon either.

However, I agree that mafia would probably have hopped onto his wagon thinking that they were about to score a mislynch.

I won't bother defending Imperium primarily because I think it would highly amusing to see Tammy log on and flip shit about your suspicion there but that's not where my concerns are.

Ooba and Rach are strong townreads as well for reasons I gave in my long list of reads. I could see TSO potentially being scum. I won't rule out Ank or Vezok either. But I'm not a huge fan of looking only on the wagon.

[Solar Wind]

And why, pray tell, did the wagon blow up out of nowhere, m'friend?

Oh, yeah.

Because Nacho said so.

Um, no. It didn't blow up because Nacho said so.

[Solar Wind]

I've been pushing it from the beginning of the game. And it was a scum lynch.

[Solar Wind]

Metal Sonic, Ffery thinks you are scum so you should really step it up if you want me to continue putting effort into derailing your wagon.

[Solar Wind]

Metal Sonic, Ffery thinks you are scum so you should really step it up if you want me to continue putting effort into derailing your wagon.

I'm town. I find it hard to believe that FFery thinks I'm scum after I've been sucked into a hole and r***ed by bitmap. Get bitmap's testimony I'm super OBVTOWN

Bitmap isn't around, so all I have to go on are your posts from early day 1 until he shows up and tells me how incredibly town you were in your hole.

Or not.

I didn't like anything whatsoever about your interactions with TSO and Beast.

Stop the stupid, obvious, gambits.

[Solar Wind]

You can catch me up about the beast and TSO business that you so suspect me of

Or I could ask my entirely obvtown hood

Aeronaut replaced into your hood and promptly voted you during day 1. Something about you claiming something different in the hood from your assortment of claims in the game thread.

It seemed kind of strange, given that claim, that you'd be happy to be locked up on night 1.

[Solar Wind]

TWIE, what are your thoughts about Metal Sonic?

[Solar Wind]

i just took a look at cephrir iso..
it is pretty bad
what i call "horse shit"
i read it from the back to the front
the front was better but it appeared more weaselly and scummy. the back is lol.
i dont see an overpowered Pr claim. did i miss something? I saw stupid crumbs gambits that i could do

In two minutes!
Your speed reading skills amaze me.

He actually does speed read. He read a (smaller) iso in the first game I played with him in under a minute.

[Solar Wind]

i just took a look at cephrir iso..
it is pretty bad
what i call "horse shit"
i read it from the back to the front
the front was better but it appeared more weaselly and scummy. the back is lol.
i dont see an overpowered Pr claim. did i miss something? I saw stupid crumbs gambits that i could do

In two minutes!
Your speed reading skills amaze me.

He actually does speed read. He read a (smaller) iso in the first game I played with him in under a minute.

It's posts like these that make me think you're scum. Just for your information.

heh.

Adding "fake speedreading" to your case or trying to discredit him for it isn't going to make an impression on me (or anyone else who's seen him process an iso that fast as town.

Though the number of spoiler buttons he'd have to click in order to read that iso does make two minutes something of a stretch.

[Solar Wind]

Antihero and I disagree in a few regions of our reads lists (most notably Cephrir and Solar Wind), but we currently have overlapping townreads on: Magua, Bitmap, Xombie, TiphaineDeath, Imperium,

theaceofspades

, mastin2, Aeronaut, The Mask, RachMarie, vezokpiraka, and FourTrouble. I think that's a good point to start from.

TSO is definitely playing more of a bystander role in this game than I'm used to. I didn't care for the BRantz/Skybird slot on my first read through but that's a read that needs revisiting. Ankamius is as well. I thought he was slightly scummy but it was mostly from intuition and nothing solid (I don't like basing reads on that). There's also that Antihero seemed to think he was slightly town on his first read through. PeregrineV is another tricky one. Both Anti and I thought he was town-ish on our first once-over which makes me feel better about that read since at least I wasn't the only one who picked up on the same vibes, but again for me that was mostly based on intuition.

The only townread you have that I disagree with (and it's not strong disagreement) is theaceofspades.

What do you think fueled the last minute AP wagon?

[Solar Wind]

heh.
Adding "fake speedreading" to your case or trying to discredit him for it isn't going to make an impression on me (or anyone else who's seen him process an iso that fast as town.
Though the number of spoiler buttons he'd have to click in order to read that iso does make two minutes something of a stretch.

Who said anything about discrediting? I think the time from of "a few minutes" is really short to try to get a handle on Cephrir's alignment and my skepticism is reasonable because Metal Sonic hasn't offered any specifics about Ceph's ISO itself or shown any evidence that he

actually did

read it.

Welcome to feryland.

I'm going to point up stuff that I think is flawed, even when it's advanced about someone I'm scumreading.

Your comments about the lack of specifics are correct, IMO. But they don't differentiate MS's town play from his scum play.

I also frankly don't give two shits what kind of impression I'm leaving on you. The post you made shows a "missing the forest for the trees" mindset because you're nitpicking at an afterthought. When I try to get a grip on the priority system you have going, I come up empty and it's one of the strangest feelings.

I'm not sure what you mean by "priority system".

I think our ISO shows some contradictions, but they're driven by primarily two things: there are some key reads that we so far can't really stay in agreement about for very long so far. Ceph is one of them. And I'm surprised that f-16 is kinda sorta townreading MS, though I think it comes down him seeing the wagon as shallow and opportunistic, when there are much deeper issues to wrestle with this game day. And the other thing is that although we're both reactive players, we react to different things, and we sometimes snap-react to game events in opposite ways.

First time hydra, yada yada.

[Solar Wind]

What do you think fueled the last minute AP wagon?

My best guess is the pressure of impending deadline is what motivated most of the votes. The stuff you and Imperium posted previously most likely provided the original spark for the wagon.

Objectively, the TAOS wagon was a better deadline compromise wagon. It was closer to L-0 at the time the AP wagon finally started to pick up steam, and TAOS (from what I see in this game) is a less charismatic player.

I disagree with Mastin that AP was essentially a survivor-vig, but I totally agree that groupscum would have seen that wagon as a wagon on town.

[Solar Wind]

when there are much deeper issues to wrestle with this game day.

Could you name a few of these issues?

Figuring Ceph out. Figuring out the disturbing pile of null players at the bottom of my reads list. Understanding what the key events in the TAOS wagon formation and dissolution were (this is something I'm hoping someone better than me at VCA will tackle, but I'll eventually work on it myself if I have to). Deciding what the ream of counterclaims and soft counterclaims mean about the game design.

Picking back up all the players we dismissed "until tomorrow" and seeing what shakes out today (this includes beast, T S O, and Peregrine). Right now, I'm leaning toward at least one scum in that bunch. Possibly two.

[Solar Wind]

Metal Sonic, Ffery thinks you are scum so you should really step it up if you want me to continue putting effort into derailing your wagon.

why are you doing that in the first place.

this game, metal sonic is hitting SO MANY more notes from organic chemistry than he is suburban or touhou. as someone who likes to use meta, i'm a little baffled as to why you're not asking more questions about that part of what i'm talking about.

If you want to talk about those games sure. I have my own experience with Metal Sonic which I'm factoring in. But Ffery going "he's scum" kind of breaks my resolve and I'll take a look at those games to see if it affects my read.

[Solar Wind]

It would be really cool if someone from AP's pantheon would claim him, though!

[Solar Wind]

- The insistence that Chinese neighbourhood is all-town
- Plus talking about SK in singular
makes me think he might be a chinese-pantheon racist.

Mastin fits under this category as well, don't you think for calling his neighborhood a Masonry?

It is also possible racists knew about each other.

[Solar Wind]

On Heartless's MS case in Post 3026: I did find some off-notes in his opening, and I didn't like how easily he read Imperium as town after expressing paranoia of Tammy but the way he made that gambit on us felt reasonably pro-active and like he was quickly to sort out the players who would have the greatest influence on the game. You are right about Metal Sonic's read switches not being followable but that's not alignment indicative for him. The conciliatory tone is a good point. Read switch because of vig claim could simply be town reacting to a claim. I think the point that he should learn from experience isn't very strong. Some people don't.

[Solar Wind]

Metal Sonic is meh. Strikes me as easy lynch.

lol we'll see about that

He's picked up several votes based on very little though.

[Solar Wind]

Metal Sonic is meh. Strikes me as easy lynch.

lol we'll see about that

He's picked up several votes based on very little though.

ok.... i don't know if this is f16 or ffery, but the little nitpicky sniping is going to start getting to me too if this is going to be your MO

It's f-16.

I'm not sniping. I don't think f-16 is either.

I came down with a case of "heartless is probtown" during the night phase (during which I spent most of my lucid hours and several of my feverish hours rereading this thread from start to AP-flip). What I'm doing is attempting to work with you. I think f-16 is also attempting to work with you. It's a little annoying that you treat every thing that we don't agree with you on, or question you about, as sniping, nitpicking, etc.

[Solar Wind]

also,

from what i remember of looking at your ISO, i thought you had mastin as a scum read. we both think she's town here. i might not agree w/ the td scumread but it makes sense to me if i take mastin-mindset.

i would think ironing out differences in that read would be important too. what's your overnight updated read on her?

ffery-read was never a strong mastin-scum. And based on her play, in part regarding AP, ffery-read went way more strongly town. My first post to Mastin this game day was a reach-out.

f-16 still has some reservations about mastin. When the game day started he had mastin in his scumpile. We kinda have to iron out our own differences there before we can effectively synch with anyone else.

[Solar Wind]

My scumread on Mastin weakened significantly overnight. Ffery was townreading Mastin even during late D1 I think.

Pedit: yeah, that.

[Solar Wind]

no, the disagreement isn't annoying. what ooba is saying ("he might be a racist for X reasons but not scum") is one thing, but saying "OH LOL METAL'S LYNCHBAIT" is annoying because........ he's not, and it's a particularly annoying way to shut down a line of thought at this point because it's kicking the wheels off the wagon before it even exists.

have you entirely missed that f-16 is engaging your case and even reconsidering his own read on the basis of what you've posted?

[Solar Wind]

well, gotta' start somewhere

let's start w/ farside.

I have farside at null-town. Overnight, I thought I found a significant discontinuity in her play on day 1, but after questioning and reviewing I think I just misunderstood a post.

[Solar Wind]

well, gotta' start somewhere

let's start w/ farside.

Going over your posts that mention farside, I get the impression you are seeing a lot of associatives with metal sonic.

[Solar Wind]

'll be a silent partner here now, you will not have to worry about me.

Thank You.

[Solar Wind]

I'm now at Stage 4 if that's even possible.

[Solar Wind]

Also, I want to make an announcement:

I would like for our slot to have the hammer whoever is lynched.

[Solar Wind]

Tammy's boy toy is still scum.

[Solar Wind]

How in the fuck is anyone reading Post 3085 as town?

[Solar Wind]

On Imperium

I see where you are coming from Mastin but Tammy's scumgame seriously, seriously sucks. Like sucks donkey balls. In the past, I used to tell her that her scumgame is good so as to encourage her so she doesn't cry but all this time, she's never improved.

She is completely incapable of fooling anyone who has seen her scumgame.

If you read Capcom Crossover, it is blindingly obvious that Southern Belles (Tammy/Mollie hydra) was scum. Not a thing that they had done in the game felt remotely town. Everytime Tammy posted, my thoughts were "why isn't this shit dead already.

Then there is [ur=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60064]Newbie 1562[/url] where she assigned new definitions to the word "suck." She reached LYLO as scum and could not even attack a newbie in order to win the game. And here's the kicker - she thinks she's SO amazing at the game and a complete fucking goddess to whom we should all bow down and revere that she thinks if she made the slightest attack on that newbie, the newbie would have crumbled and broke down. So, she "let them win" and threw the game

as an IC in a Newbie

. If I were the listmod I'd never allow her to IC but the listmod is her best friend so LOL.

In Mafiascum Fantasy Camp, she pulled real life excuses, said she was feeling sick etc to not post content when I caught her so I felt bad and backed off and she went on to win the game. It is kinda shameful how she has no boundaries because of where she'll go as scum to get people to back off of her.

Since Fantasy Camp, in every single game I've watched of her as scum, I've had her pegged as scum D1. Every. Single. Game. Quite frankly, I'm amused that anyone is actually fooled by Tammy a second time.

I don't think Imperium is scum here but I'll help you pressure them so hopefully Tammy melts down and we get a few reads from reaction tests.

Ffery can unvote whenever she wants.

VOTE: Imperium

[Solar Wind]

Newbie 1562 - The game that Tammy threw as a scum IC.

[Solar Wind]

We're not. My vote's only there until Tammy melts down and I get the reactions I want. Last time I fake-suspected Tammy (Tales of You), I pegged the entire scumteam based on their reactions.

Also, you did know that there was a wagon on you. You were posting elsewhere. You just wanted to newbies to win because you are so full of your own ego that you think just trying means you will win so you didn't try.

[Solar Wind]

But I'm the first person to say I have one of the worst scum games onsite!

You say it with words. But in your mind, you think you are the Bonnie Parker.

[Solar Wind]

If you have too many townreads, then some of those reads are wrong.

[Solar Wind]

Also, Ffery is considering replacing out because of the you/me argument.

Thanks bitch. I owe you one.

[Solar Wind]

What the hell's your problem Tammy? You said that you would be a silent partner because you signed up after me and then you fail to uphold your word.

You are stubborn as fuck. You won't be silent. You won't replace out. You won't even resolve a temporary solution so we can make it out of this game with our sanity intact and passive-aggressively post irrelevant stuff whenever I genuinely try to talk to you in the neighborhood.

My hydra partner wants to replace out. I'm stuck with you solo in this game.

[Solar Wind]

Which of our top town reads do you disagree with?

Your boy-toy is the biggest one.

[Solar Wind]

Your abusive behavior in the neighborhood is why I'm leaving the site.

I won't let you bully me though. It's not okay.

I've told you several times I don't want to argue. It's miserable for everyone.

I just want to play the game.

Would you like to discuss reads with me? I'm more than happy to discuss that.

I have not bullied you or been abusive in any way. You are welcome to leave the site if you want. I think I would I would find it more enjoyable without you.

Discusses reads with someone implies a level of mutual respect for the others opinions. I have none. Nothing you say is of value to me.

[Solar Wind]

How in the fuck is anyone reading Post 3085 as town?

what in there is particularly objectionable?

It feels like he's ingratiating himself. Tonally, it is all wrong. Which of your heads is townreading him and which of your heads is scumreading him?

[Solar Wind]

Would you like to discuss reads with me? I'm more than happy to discuss that.

But if you wanted to, you could comment on my read I posted right above this post I'm quoting.

[Solar Wind]

Don't get sucked into townreading him just because he gives you a good time.

[Solar Wind]

Saying you are revisiting a read without giving any sort of reasons is incredibly helpful.

[Solar Wind]

He said nothing about your boy toy.

[Solar Wind]

He wasn't listed in Nacho's top town reads at all.

[Solar Wind]

My question was your reason for your read there. You told me to look at Nacho's list.

[Solar Wind]

Cool. Let me know if you have a non-waffly answer within the next two months.

[Solar Wind]

I might need six.

Of course you do. A few more losses as town will probably help you be more decisive.

[Solar Wind]

Why do you know our neighborhood is Chinese?

anyone paying attention knows because:

I am in Chinese neighborhood and my partners are BRAntz and -Blonde-

[Solar Wind]

TWIE how caught up are you?

This is ffery btw.

[Solar Wind]

Oh never mind, you said you've skimmed.

Is your scumread based on the neighborhood? the game thread? both?

[Solar Wind]

How do you feel about Skybird?

[Solar Wind]

Do you have any reads of players who are not in your neighborhood?

[Solar Wind]

Also, can you explain what was weird about them?

There was something that was kinda squicky in one of her day 1 posts.

[Solar Wind]

Ok.

Any thoughts on Ceph?

[Solar Wind]

I'm a little sad. Your ceph read in Sabotage was quickly made and correct.

[Solar Wind]

That reminds me before I got massively distracted. Yeah, Farside probably is scum. I trusted FT D1 but I'm hoping he has a better explanation for his townread.

[Solar Wind]

Ffery thought she was scum because of her lack of followup on a question about hydras and there being no hydras in her neighborhood which seems to have been resolved.

That wasn't my issue to begin with. It is more that all of her pushes have felt completely nonsensical.

[Solar Wind]

[quote="In post 3199, beastcharizard"]Hey Imperium, want to try and explain how you are voting me without posting in thread that you are voting me?[/quote

Does your vote increase by .5 every game day?

[Solar Wind]

There won't be any more toxic, personal crap at least from this end of the field.

[Solar Wind]

Solar wind if you two both find that imperium is scum, or anyone is scum for that matter, yell it at me so that I can sheep you

We don't. I'm not sure what the confusion is. But why are you so willing to sheep? It reminded me of Final Fantasy X where you told Ffery that you'd be willing to sheep her read on Nacho, no questions asked. How did you develop this townread on us?

[Solar Wind]

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

Because it's the truth, and you damn-well KNOW it is.
AP was not groupscum.
Groupscum would have no clue AP was a third party. (Unless they did, in which case they'd want him dead EVEN MORE than town would.)
Thus, groupscum had every incentive to be on his lynch.

It was scumdriven.

For looking at votes, and voters on AP-wagon, this.

This is pretty non-specific.

[Solar Wind]

MS, what happened in your neighborhood with Bitmap?

[Solar Wind]

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

Because it's the truth, and you damn-well KNOW it is.
AP was not groupscum.
Groupscum would have no clue AP was a third party. (Unless they did, in which case they'd want him dead EVEN MORE than town would.)
Thus, groupscum had every incentive to be on his lynch.

It was scumdriven.

For looking at votes, and voters on AP-wagon, this.

This is pretty non-specific.

Mine or yours?

Yours.

Actually your whole day 2 so far feels pretty

[Solar Wind]

dunno how I managed to hit submit in the middle of typing.

Your whole day 2 so far feels like you're not digging in and trying to figure things out.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin,

What are your thoughts about TWIE's entrance?

[Solar Wind]

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

Because it's the truth, and you damn-well KNOW it is.
AP was not groupscum.
Groupscum would have no clue AP was a third party. (Unless they did, in which case they'd want him dead EVEN MORE than town would.)
Thus, groupscum had every incentive to be on his lynch.

It was scumdriven.

For looking at votes, and voters on AP-wagon, this.

This is pretty non-specific.

Mine or yours?

Yours.

Actually your whole day 2 so far feels pretty

Why thank you!

My point was that AP, for wagon and vote analysis purposes, should be treated as if town.

I agree with this, but I expected you to follow up with some vote analysis. You just threw the comment out there and did nothing with it.

[Solar Wind]

dunno how I managed to hit submit in the middle of typing.

Your whole day 2 so far feels like you're not digging in and trying to figure things out.

SK-scum lynched and no deaths. Same info as yesterday, but trying to stay in the conversation and get some reads there.

But, at this point since I don't really feel like digging into 14 deadline-lynch votes and their reasons, give me something you want to see.

If it sounds fun and cool and will net info, you got it.

I want to see where YOUR thought process takes you. You're not a consultant. You're a player with a win condition.

[Solar Wind]

@ Mastin, disagree on AP playing like town but you are entitled to your opinion.

If not Imperium, then, name them.

Our vote is on them. What now?

[Solar Wind]

Mastin,

What are your thoughts about TWIE's entrance?

not mastin but I thought it was really town.

Happy Scumday!

To me, your entrance didn't have the oomph that your replace-in entrances had in our previous games. F-16 agrees based on a cursory look at those games. I've given myself a meta homework assignment, but so far I've only skimmed.

[Solar Wind]

Despite where our vote is, you guys will be dealing with mastin day 1 part 2 only from me, if a serious wagon starts on Imperium.

[Solar Wind]

What of Beast is scummy?

[Solar Wind]

There was nothing toxic in the neighborhood.

[Solar Wind]

Maybe you could answer my Beast question rather than some bs about toxic, personal crap. Me venting about my frustration to Nacho in a place where it can't affect the game isn't toxic.