Board Games Mafia -- Game Over!

[Kison]

I'm a replacement board game! Anyhow...
@IH
You made some very very clear-cut points there, and I have to agree with most of them. BattleMage's posts are a HUGE sympathy act, "well when im gone and rotting over, you'll at least know of my innocence *sigh*!"

I don't know if he doesn't have a clue or what, but either way, he's the thorn I seem to notice sticking out here. So a huge

FoS: BattleMage

I want to re-read the remainder of the thread before I confirm a vote on him, but I'd give it a "very likely" unless I see some other sketchy behavior to that extremity.
I'd also like to see why everyone is on Livingod, as there must be a reason.

[Kison]

OK, so basically I had only BRIEFLY browsed the thread previously. I now think it is QUITE obvious that BattleMage has no idea how to make his posts look legit. Therefore it is pretty much impossible for me to tell whether he's scum or not. However, no-one seemed to jump to his aid, and he looks to me to be going his own way, in his own world, etc.

RagingRabbit's defiant defense for Livingod is pretty scummy, to me. I mean, sure, there wasn't a huge case against him at first, and it may have even died down, but the fact that he has gone out of his way to defend Livingod is not a very good indication.

I'm going to have to

Vote: Livingod

. There's no reason to vote for RagingRabbit, as we'll have a good idea of whether or not he's scum based on a lynch result.

Yes, that puts us at Lynch - 2. If Livingod wants to speak up, let him do it. If he's Mafia, RagingRabbit is getting it tomorrow.

[Kison]

Right. If it wasn't obvious from my last post, there's something very big I believe I just spotted and while I'm in a very OT/casual mood atm I promise to review it and make a big important post. Don't lynch anyone 'till then, please.

Right, I want to see what you have to say. But this is strictly temporary unless I see something drastic.

Unvote

[Kison]

Right. If it wasn't obvious from my last post, there's something very big I believe I just spotted and while I'm in a very OT/casual mood atm I promise to review it and make a big important post. Don't lynch anyone 'till then, please.

Right, I want to see what you have to say. But this is strictly temporary unless I see something drastic.

Unvote

Was taking livingod from -3 to -4 really necessary?

Maybe. I made clear my unvote is strictly temporary. If I don't like what I see tomorrow, it's going back. So in the end it does not matter.

[Kison]

Tomorrow?

Bigass post coming tomorrow at the latest,

Real-life tomorrow, not in-game tomorrow.

Are you planning on blindly following RR upcoming stupid post?

How many times do I have to say that my unvote was temporary? As was your unvote. If I don't like what his post consists of, it's going back. Plain and simple. I'd much rather hear from Livingod, though, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen by then, now does it?

[Kison]

Yes I misunderstood your tomorrow.

kk

[Kison]

Good job, you just made a post that was even LONGER than his.

[Kison]

One of the most suspicious parts of your post, RagingRabbit, is that you want us to move off of Livingod, who many believe is scum, and onto Twito, while you already claim that Livingod is scum. In fact, your entire basis for Twito being scum is the FACT that Livingod is scum.

If you are so confident that BOTH are scum, prove it to us. Lynch Livingod.
If you refuse to do this, even after you so confidently condemned all three of Livingod, BattleMage, and Twito, then there's no way you can expect me to buy your theory.

Vote: Livingod

*hands RagingRabbit the noose*

[Kison]

The next time I see anybody even MENTION another currently-running game, I will modkill that player on the spot. Consider this a final warning.

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of seeing people's evidence based on other games...

[Kison]

Again, Twito, if you're so confident that Livingod is scum, then prove it to us by voting for him.

[Kison]

Sorry, I meant to direct that at RR :/

[Kison]

I guess that is a valid point. But still... I'm not sure why you are so against the livingod lynch today instead of the Twito lynch. It would still prove part of your theory correct.

Agreed. I'm not going to buy your theory, RR, unless you yourself help to lynch Livingod. You said he's scum, and you included him in your Twito claim. So far, you have tried to do everything in your power to create a bandwagon against Twito. Livingod is scum. You claimed it. So vote for him.

Tomorrow we can see about Twito.

[Kison]

1. I mostly think livingod's scum because of his connection to Twito.

Sorry, but that's not going to cut it for most people. A lot of us already suspected Livingod to begin with. Now you're pulling a new theory out of thin air. What it looks like to me is a final effort to pull people off of Livingod and onto Twito. Since Livingod is already at Lynch - 2, let's finish him off.

2. I'm afraid of getting lynched tommorow myself. Like I said though, if livingod turning out scum would convince you to lynch Twito tommorow rather than myself, I could totally go with that as well.

Let's put it this way... If you try to get people to lynch Twito and we lynch Livingod instead, and you show no effort to aid us, I see 0 reason to go along with your theory. You saw a scum close to lynching and ignored it. Their "plot" to have Livingod lynched, if it is true, is already debunked in your previous post either way.

You seem afraid that a Livingod lynch means your lynching. However, I see no reason to think that you will have any MORE of a hard time convincing people that you're innocent with Livingod DEAD than you would right now.

You seem convinced. Yet you're not acting to prove it. If you're not scum, help us lynch Livingod, who everyone thinks is your scumbuddy. If you don't, then we simply think you're trying to get people to unvote him.

[Kison]

You're contradicting yourself here. The town made it pretty obvious to me that if livingod comes up scum they'll lynch me tommorow and think Twito innocent. I think that's exactly what livingod was going for, that's why he made no effort to defend himself whatsoever, only to buddy up to me and distance Twito.

Except that when I said that, YOU were intent on defending Livingod. Since you nor CLAIM to believe him to be scum, that changes things, but ONLY if you prove it by voting for him.

If you are one of the people voting for Livingod by the time he lynches, I'd have much less reason to think you're scum. It would debunk a lot of the claims against you.

[Kison]

IH, before you go after RagingRabbit, what do you think of Livingod, and the possibility that RagingRabbit is doing all of this to DISTRACT us from lynching him?

1) I find it odd he went Jihad against everyone who was voting for Livingod to begin with.
2) I find it even more odd that he now claims that Livingod and Twito are scum buddies, yet doesn't attempt to finish Livingod, but instead tries to get a bandwagon on Twito.

Those two reasons really send a red flag up for me. Yet, it almost seems, that all reasons that RR is scum make Livingod scum as well. Basically his entire campaign has been in attempt to divert attention from Livingod(scumbuddy?).

The second reason, let me point out, seems as though once I placed my vote on Livingod, putting him at lynch - 2, he realized that he was next in line for a lynch due to his diehard defense. So he came up with a bogus theory just in case Livingod did get lynched so that he'd have a "plausible" excuse for why Livingod turned up scum when he alone(for the most part) defended him.

So basically I want to know your take on that.

[Kison]

I don't think Raging Rabbit is scum. I think he was a bit whacked when he made the theory of Livingod & Twito working together. However, he has remained consistent with Twito, and Twito did go hard for Livingod's lynch.

So for now, I am going to

Vote: Twito

[Kison]

Livingod's posts were scummy, despite him being town.

So were Twito's and RR's.

A few people were going after him, obviously, he was lynched.

Of course. I was one of them, remember? However, Twito was very vocal about it, and Raging Rabbit's defiant defense for Livingod only supports my belief that he is not scum. One could always claim it was an act, however, he seemed unsure in the end and therefore voted for him. Uncertainty of Livingod's alignment = not scum.

So, other than RR's "consistency" going after Twito what reason do you have for voting Twito?

Based on the fact that both RR and Twito looked equally scummy yesterday, but that RR seemed to be more correct based on the lynch result from Livingod(minus his loony theory), I'm going to lean more towards RR being town and Twito being scum.

And if you have a better lead than one of those two, let's hear it.

[Kison]

You also tried to convince him that regardless of the outcome, RR would be in no more jeopardy than he would have been.

I told him that in his current situation, at the time, with hardly anyone buying his theories, that he'd have just as hard of a time convincing people to lynch Twito than he would the next day, regardless of the Livingod lynch result. However, he, and many others(myself included) were expecting to see Livingod come up as scum. However, he did not. Although it debunked his Twito/Livingod theory, it does not debunk his original theory nor does it remove the scumminess of Twito's posts.

So you werent far off, but it was a nice manipulation (cooperation with?) of RR, while being able to claim that you werent the one that actually hammered.

At the time, it looked EXTREMELY odd having Raging Rabbit defend Livingod so defiantly, that it was almost insane to think that with his own scummy posts that he would not turn up scum. Basically, once he came up with his theory that both Livingod and Twito were working together, I pretty much dared him to back up his claim.

There are a couple of ways I could see that playing out...

1) Raging Rabbit could have refused, and still gone after Twito. Had he chosen this path, with Livingod already near lynching point, it would further incriminate RR to have him name Livingod scum and not do anything about it.

2) Raging Rabbit could have gone after Livingod & he turned up scum. This would have backed up his theory that both Livingod & Twito were working together. However, it also shows that Raging Rabbit is not mafia because he placed the hammered vote.

3) Raging Rabbit could have gone after Livingod & he turned up town. This is what happened. I found this to be the most neutralizing result, however, it shows that his initial reaction to the Livingod bandwagon was correct. The level of defiance that he showed for a townie is more than I'd ever expect from a mafia member.

So sure, I may have "manipulated" Raging Rabbit, but it was not to pick off a townie as you seem to suspect. It was instead to gain more insight on Raging Rabbit & Twito while, as I had hoped, pick off Livingod who looked extremely scummy(as you also admit) based on his posts.

Take it or leave it.

[Kison]

I think Ectomancer raises a great point regarding Kison, and I definitely thinks it warrants a

FoS: Kison

.

So I take it you ignored my points, then? Normally when there is a rebuttal, you make a reference of it.

So did... alot of other people.... I don't see why the game suddenly revolves around Twito and RR.

The game has been largely focused on Livingod, Twito, and Raging Rabbit for a long time. There was a brief moment of BattleMage focus, but that has faded off. So I made a play last night to figure out which one I thought was the worse, and I chose. You're basically going after me for that move. So what part of it did you not like?

Kison, just because someone is very vocal about wanting to lynch someone, that doesn't mean they are the most likely scum.

Then explain Ectomancer's accusations against me for pushing for a Livingod lynch.

I think that your wrong about Twito and RR, as they both said Livingod was scum,

Yes, they both

in the end

went after Livingod. However, I think it nicely disproves any scuminess of Raging Rabbit that he pressed so hard to save Livingod. Were he scum, I don't see why he would have done it

to that extent

. Possibly to put on an act, however, I'd think it more likely that he'd have jumped on the band wagon a lot sooner than he did.

However, Twito was on the wagon for a LOT longer than Raging Rabbit was. So between those two, I'm going with Twito until I see another valid candidate.

And if my reasoning is not good enough for you, I suggest you begin to question the people who went after Twito last night. At least I have a reason to go after him for the time being.

[Kison]

And before anyone tries to quick-lynch me for bad wording my post, I meant "yesterday" where I said "last night".

[Kison]

Tomorrow we can see about Twito.

I'm failing to see how this is holds any significance. My agreement to reconsider the Twito case in light of new events the next day is hardly a scum-tell.

I'm not going to go in depth yet again about my reasons for voting for Twito, as I feel I've made more points for why I did it than everyone else has about denouncing my claims as scummy. If you all want to actually read what I've said and bring up some questions based on it, then I'd gladly clarify things. However, again, I'm not going to waste my time when everyone seems to hardly reference what I've said.

[Kison]

Except I already explained my reasons. The fact that you all want me to claim again is proof enough that you did not read very far into my post.

[Kison]

What I'm saying is that you never mentioned Twito being suspicious until this morning.

I was a replacement and therefore was not around until the very end of day 1. Therefore lack of

direct

vocalization of suspicion towards Twito is very closely related to that. However, I did believe Twito to be suspicious, just not to the extent that I saw Raging Rabbit and Livingod, and therefore focused mainly on Livingod at that time. As you can see, I did mention that I would look into Twito the next day. However, I wanted to see the result of the Livingod lynch first.

You want reasons other than the ones I've stated? Well, let's go look through the thread a little bit...

Doesn't it bother you that Ectomancer is scum and is voting for livingod?
Frustian is not even voting just sitting back lurking.

Unvote
Vote: livingod Chosen for having most votes atm. We need a proper wagon.

1) Assumes Ectomancer is scum
2) Votes for Livingod even though previous assumption that Ectomancer is scum should have been a red flag that Livingod is not scum. In other words, flawed logic.
3) Says his reason for voting for Livingod is that he has the most votes on him(quick-lynch)

The one page later...

Vote:livingod

because he has been getting scummier all game long.

You seem like scum jumping on hot wagon.

Yet he had _just_ hopped on the wagon for the flawed reasoning I had stated above. That is extremely discontinuous.

Nope. If you honestly think livingod's scummy, you have no reason whatsoever to vote DoS for agreeing with you . It's not like he was close to lynch or anything, that was only the 6th vote...

Yes I do that's bullshit. That was 6th vote on hot wagon without reasons provided. Meaning the wagon is on town and DoS is scum or DoS is bussing his buddy.

I'm even more sure about livingod being scum with RR so maybe DoS was right at placing that vote.

I find it ironic how Twito holds the double standard which allows him to jump on a band wagon because Livingod "has the most posts" yet DoS cannot jump on for "not stating his reasons"

That's three, and I didn't even have to go halfway through the thread. I'd get more, but I have to go for now.

[Kison]

I was getting ready to claim anyways, but wanted to wait for one more vote before I did that, though...

I'm a

townie

, plain and simple.

[Kison]

Monopoly. No role. Just lots of play money.

[Kison]

And as I realize that my lynching is pretty much inevitable, I'd like to point out that CES is rather anxious to get this done with. He hasn't even given a valid reason for why he's so anxious to hang me. It's rather hypocritical that I am criticized for placing a second vote on Twito with at least some reasoning, even if you all disagreed with it, while he posts about my lynching as if he hasn't even looked at why the wagon was formed:

Vote: Kison

(If I don't, Zindaras will vote for me.)

BS reason.

Now that we've determined we're lynching Kison, I'm asking the vig to take out Zind.

This is right after I gave my three Twito-for-scum reasons. No reason given why he did not like them.

Pst, Fritz, just say it's Kison.

Vigilante-kill request.

Yeah, he's scum all right.

And, still no reason given.

My list:

Possible Scum

:
CES, Twito, DoS

Possible Town

:
Ectomancer, HackerHuck

Unsure

:
Everyone else.

[Kison]

Vote: Kison

. I don't really believe that claim.

Perhaps you should explain why. If you obviously think I'm scum, why'd you bother asking for the claim? Trying to legitimize your reason for voting?

[Kison]

Perhaps you should explain why. If you obviously think I'm scum, why'd you bother asking for the claim? Trying to legitimize your reason for voting?

I wanted to see your claim because I was leaning towards you being scum, but unsure.

And what did you want me to claim? What did you expect?

[Kison]

I expected a claim and I got a claim. You haven't given off vibes for any specific role, to be honest.

You said you were "unsure" of my being scum before my claim. My question is how does my claim make you any more sure? You're dancing around the question.

[Kison]

Just do it.

[Kison]

Unfortunately, all money I contain is... well... fake... Therefore I hold no true powers.

[Kison]

So why are you trying to go after RR, Twito, when I'm the soup of the day at the Corner Pub for casting my doubts on your alignment, and in his defense?

I'd like to hear why you're still going after him.

[Kison]

Kison has been active recently in other games. I doubt he intends to come back, since he expects to get lynched anyway.

Unvote, Vote: Kison

Come back? I'm already here. Hello? McFly?

There's not much more for me to say at this point.

[Kison]

The lack of Kisonlynch troubles me.

Your repeated push for a lynch without providing a reason troubles me, especially after your lack of response to my previous mention of it.

[Kison]

Your repeated push for a lynch without providing a reason troubles me, especially after your lack of response to my previous mention of it.

You claim to have a Monocle, but also no powers. You're scum.

I have a nice suit, cane, hat, and mustache. No monocle.

[Kison]

How would knowing who he is gonna investigate benefit scum may I ask?

As others have said, there's no benefit to us whatsoever to know this before hand. What are we to do, plea that he investigates someone else?

As long as RR is alive, he should keep his investigations to himself until he finds someone who is scum, or unless he realizes that a confirmed innocent is close to being lynched. The only time where he should disclose all of that info is at the end of the game when it's crucial to figure out the possible scum candidates. Even then, I don't see why he would want to tell people before hand.

Were he to reveal before he investigated, not only is there no benefit to us, but scum could kill his target tonight, thus making his vote pointless. This would harm a potentially useful list later in the game to single out scum.

We had a similar scenario in another game where people were trying to out the cop's confirmed innocents, and quite frankly I don't understand how people can possibly see it as a non-potential danger, especially someone who's been here as long as you have.

Confirm Vote : Twito

[Kison]

Zind, hammah Kison, please.

=======[]

Stop bribing people with my play money.

[Kison]

thus making his

investigation

pointless.

EBWOP

[Kison]

Twito, scum will kill off his investigation, rendering it useless

Or perhaps there was a reason I went after Twito and he just provided us with another one?

and giving him an excuse for tomorrow....

Not really. If Twito dies and comes up innocent, I'd be a likely candidate for tomorrow.

IH - What are your thoughts on Twito's attempt to expose the cop's potential investigation? I know in a game with a similar situation, you were all for it. So this stance of yours does not surprise me in the least.

[Kison]

With a poorly claimed cop, they should reveal their results,

but not their targets the day before.

RR who are you planning on investigating?

This is an almost exact statement that RR used that is faulty from yesterday. Not sure what it means at this point.

Except that the big difference is that RR was never close to being lynched previously.

[Kison]

IH's point was that if Rabbit's target is killed, we've got yet another day in which Rabbit cannot prove his claim.

Err, I misread that. I thought he was talking about me.

[Kison]

Twito's investagation fishing is quite scummy imo, and he remains by far my favorite lynch.

My current plan is to tell you I've got

an

innocent in the case of an innocent investagation, but not the name of the player in case he gets NK'd.

IH, I get that you think I'm stupid. Could you please stop endlessly repeating that?

How is witholding the name of a returned innocent until after he's been NK'd supposed to help with your claim?

I agree, there's no point naming them after they've been killed. Like I said, don't name anyone unless they are scum, or unless we're down to a few players and it's crucial to cross off verified townies.

If you name a townie, scum will realize that we know they are verified, and kill them to take that advantage away.

IH would argue differently...

[Kison]

Why isn't Kison dead yet? The Monocle compels you!

Quiet you. *shakes fist*

[Kison]

At this point, if you all are leaning towards lynching me, you may as well do it. It's going to be insightful at this point, mainly due to how long the wagon has been in play. But also because you all don't seem to have any strong alternative suspects.

If and when I'm lynched, you all better start looking into CES, because he's ignored every question about his reasonless vote against me. When questioned, he changes the subject to my monocle(obviously scummy!).

Additionally, I still think you all should look into Twito, for more than the reasons in my previous posts, which caused all of this ruckus. His fishing for the cop's planned investigation target for tonight was forgotten rather quickly so it seems, but I think that act, in itself, speaks many words.

I'd say to look at IH as well. He FoS'd DoS for "hopping on the wagon", but he ignored how it was done by CES, which was pointed out before. Though I had gotten bad vibes from DoS myself, so maybe he went on a similar hunch.

That tis all for now.

[Kison]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Kison-give me your opinions of Nightfall, Ectomancer, Fritzler, and one other player of your choice.

Ectomancer

• - Did not seem too interested in hopping on early bandwagons
  - Continued to go against the "unjustified" bandwagon on Livingod
  - Continued to denounce the Livingod wagon even after it became more heated.
  - Early and sincere accuser of myself, but my flawed viewpoint of the current situation does justify where he came from to an extent.

I'd have to say he's

likely town

based on what I've seen.

Nightfall

• - Early on suspicions of RagingRabbit + Logic scumgroup. Nothing noticeably suspicious of him
  - Switched his vote to Livingod in the middle of a heated Twito/RR debate. No new Livingod substance which I
  see would make him change his vote.
  - Did not like his call for a needless vig kill.

Possibly Scum

, but no hardcore evidence due to his lack of posting.

Fritzler

• -Jumped on the Livingod bandwagon with no reason given.
  -Responds to the questioning of this with an unserious response.
  -No solid contribution.

Don't know

what to think due to lack of consistent substantial posting.

DragonsOfSummer

• -The wagon he created at start then jumped off of was suspicious looking.
  -Seems more of a lurker with occasional posting;follows game progress without posting.
  -A bit defensive at the Livingod wagon stage
  -Only seems to post when it was in his own defense.

At first, I leaned towards his being scum, but my latest reread shuns more favor on him.

Could be scum, could be town

.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The largest problem I face here with trying to read a lot of these people is simply that the whole argument between RR and Twito throws me off course. It was the perfect substance to let any scum kind of blend into the background.

[Kison]

so your opinions are likely possibley, don't know, and could be either?

at least on the last two you were honest

Are you saying that I was dishonest about Ectomancer and Nightfall? If so, then why?

[Kison]

Kison -
Why did you pick DoS as your "other" choice when your opinion on him is so vague?

I have a vague opinion of many people, and I attribute it to the RR & Twito argument, which dominated a large part of day one. I chose DoS because upon my first read, I was getting bad vibes from him. I wanted to explore him once again.

[Kison]

Kison -
Why did you pick DoS as your "other" choice when your opinion on him is so vague?

I have a vague opinion of many people, and I attribute it to the RR & Twito argument, which dominated a large part of day one. I chose DoS because upon my first read, I was getting bad vibes from him. I wanted to explore him once again.

I realise that the RR/Twito debate was a great smokescreen for the scum, but you have to have an opinion on someone. Picking DoS and then saying maybe/maybe not just seems to be playing it safe to me.

No, I'm not trying to play it safe. What have I to lose?

With the extreme lack of content from everyone during that large part of the day, it's difficult to come up with something concrete. I explained that I picked DoS because of the vibes I picked up from him, and I still had some bad ones when I went back and re-read.

But for your second question --

CES did a good job of "blending in" yesterday. Even Zindaras commented on it at the beginning of day two, and you should notice that he did indeed hold his vote on Livingod up until the end of day one with hardly any contribution to the game. He has claimed that he "lost track" the game and that a prod from the MOD would ensure a better day two for himself(!) He does exactly what he did on day one by putting his vote on the hot bandwagon, except now he posts occasionally so as to not seem too obvious, though all posts lack productive content, so you can't notice any obvious scummy intentions. So basically he's hopping on the bandwagons but not doing anything else to infiltrate himself because he's "blending in."

DoS attempted to blend in on day one, but the bandwagon situation I mentioned before forced him out of his hole on multiple occasions. Notice he tended to post only when it was in his best interest and defense. This may be why he didn't hop on the Livingod wagon, just to ensure the focus of attention moved away from him. Though he did hop on mine with reasons he attributes to Ectomancer, and has posted once since then(7 pages or so ago). That's an extreme case of lurking and seems to be a consistent characteristic of his.

And before you ask, I did not "explore" CES because I have already made clear my thoughts on him.

[Kison]

I have been lurking it is true and I will readily admit it, but it isn't because I am trying to go unnoticed even thought that is always what lurking looks like. I lurk because I post only when I feel I have something new to add, need to defend myself, or think someone else has put together a convincing enough case on someone that it deserves more of my attention and possibly vote. If anyone would like my oppinions on anything please just ask. I have a hard time chiming in on something that does nothing to make me do any of the above without being asked to.

What you say may be true, but it only adds to the scummy vibes that I got from you. Notice you only now posted when it was in your best interest? You showed up to vote for me, but you offered no input to why you did so, or any other observations. You just joined the bandwagon and then vanished.

[Kison]

I dislike how DoS and CES dance around the any prompting for their reason for bandwagoning, each and every time it is mentioned that they failed to provide one.

Thesp : What part of Ectomancer's discussion regarding a roleblocker did you find particularly shady?

[Kison]

The only people who I called scummy were those who repeated those trends on day two. Mainly, DoS and CES. CES more than DoS.

Twito is a different case completely, though I find letting him off with a plea of insanity to be extremely weak.

[Kison]

Monopoly. What is the thing we all remember about Monopoly? Yes, the prison. And what would a prison perfectly do in a game? Roleblock. And what scum role have we practically confirmed to be in the game? A roleblocker.

Might I also add that there are many aspects of Monopoly that people tend to remember? Money, Go, Jail, etc... To pick one and call it dangerous is a weak argument. By additionally analyzing the one aspect you chose(jail) and saying that it's

possible

that it's going to cause a roleblock is stretching your argument even thinner.

Try looking at the game as a whole. It's about getting rich by buying people out. Unfortunately, it's all play money, and holds no value outside of itself. There's nothing violent about it.

Look at Clue. There are weapons & murder in Clue. But what is the game all about? Detective work. You figure out who committed the murder.

Unvote : Twito

Vote : Cogito Ergo Sum

I have a stronger gut feeling about CES based on his actions throughout the game.

[Kison]

Twito, you seem to be basing your suspicion on Sefer supporting Raging Rabbit. Yet you think Raging Rabbit is scum, and there's obviously not enough momentum there for people to be convinced of that. Why is Sefer any more likely? What about his support looks scummy?

[Kison]

The natural protown thing to do, would be to come into the game and say who you think is suspicious. Why would someone protown want to waste time defending themselves from people who are probably scum themselves?

The natural protown thing to do would be to

not

ignore questions asked by everyone else, completely contrary to what you have suggested. Ignoring questions makes you look like scum. Looking like scum means you're acting like scum. Acting like scum is not protown. Answering questions is also not always a defense. It's clarification.

Secondly, that's a poor excuse to go after Sefer, saying that he should ignore questions from "those who are likely scum themselves". What makes it likely that any one of his questioners is scum? Do you know something that we do not?

I don't know that he's more likely to be newbie scum than newbie town, though; I've seen overdefensive town newbies before (heck, I've been an overdefensive town newbie before). Is there a case against him besides "he makes bad arguments," or are the people voting him just reacting to that?

He is typically like this in every game. Though recently he has been able to formulate somewhat logical posts, this is definitely one of his more aggressive games.

[Kison]

Battle Mage, I see where you're

trying

to come from, but I still think you're being ridiculous and overplaying.

Twito : I see a lot of RR support from Olio in day one specifically. Is there any part in particular you're referring to? He was not the only supporter of RR, of course, throughout the day.

What do you mean by "his way of replacing" ? Was that the only other game you've witnessed him replacing into? Is it possible that that game was an anomaly? Using his replacement as a basis for calling him scum is not very strong support in my opinion. But, if there's something scummy about his

manner

of doing so, then I'd like to hear it.

[Kison]

calling people scum without reason even when asked to provide it

I made a post in response to someone earlier on day two with three reasons on why I thought Twito was scum based on day one actions. I didn't have time to make a case on day one as I replaced in right at the end of it.

and claiming that no one listens to him even when people responded directly to him.

I never said no-one listened. I said no-one was bringing up questions based on what I had said.

A lynch is necessary today. With the possibility that there

is

a role-blocker preventing our cop from doing his job, going lynchless today will leave us little more information tomorrow than we have right now. And while that someone is very likely to be me, the insight gained from a lynch only betters the info we have tomorrow.

[Kison]

That is pretty bad, even for Battle Mage...

Unvote

Vote : Battle Mage

He's at L-2

[Kison]

Unvote

Sefer snuck a vote right before me. No need to rush this. I'm likely to put this back, but let him claim first.

[Kison]

*sigh*

It's actually 9 before I unvoted. God damnit.

[Kison]

First off, with the doc dead, things don't look good for our cop, especially since he stupidly outed himself. I guess, then, that now would be a good time for him to tell us what he has found?

But what of the two deaths? At first I thought Logictus was a MOD kill, but Logictus hadn't really gone inactive long enough for to be worthy of a MOD kill. So something is up with that. My guess is that there's a third party out there(serial killer possibly) doing the deed. Which means that CES's day one protection worked out.

Rereading before I vote.

[Kison]

I can't really argue the actions of Battle Mage, other than saying that it is none of than Battle Mage carrying them out.

Vote : Twito

-- Same thing as yesterday.

[Kison]

Kison, why do you think that CES was likely the scum kill?

It's not that I necessarily think that scum killed CES. It's that my initial reaction to Logictus' death was that it was a MOD kill, but looking back, there must be another group/person killing off players. So, either could have killed either player. But the lack of a night one kill is interesting. My guess is that scum went for Rabbit and that CES protected him. Unfortunately, CES isn't exactly here to confirm that.

[Kison]

Twito's day one actions were good enough of a reason for me to go after him on day two, however, that was more of a beginning point to start at on the day, and mainly due to the lack of developments on day one.

Day two, he comes out of nowhere in the middle of discussion and begins making a case against our

claimed cop

with nothing to support his case nor any consideration to whether his claim was true. But then a few posts later he begins

asking

Rabbit who he plans on investigating. I don't know how this went so unnoticed, because this is in no way of benefit to know before the investigation actually takes place while allowing scum to take initiative and kill the person that Rabbit is about to investigate in order to eliminate a confirmed townie for the town to not have to worry about lynching later in the game.

[Kison]

Twito's day one actions were good enough of a reason for me to go after him on day two, however, that was more of a beginning point to start at on the day, and mainly due to the lack of developments on day one.

Day two, he comes out of nowhere in the middle of discussion and begins making a case against our

claimed cop

with nothing to support his case nor any consideration to whether his claim was true. But then a few posts later he begins

asking

Rabbit who he plans on investigating. I don't know how this went so unnoticed, because this is in no way of benefit to know before the investigation actually takes place while allowing scum to take initiative and kill the person that Rabbit is about to investigate in order to eliminate a confirmed townie for the town to not have to worry about lynching later in the game.

OK, I can understand your points with the day two reasons, but what about day one? I recall asking you that question yesterday, but I don't think I got a satisfactory answer.

Ectomancer asked for three day one reasons, and I provided them here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 620#528620

[Kison]

Why do you say that innocence is not guaranteed? Is it because the role does not specify that IH is innocent, or because the role specifically states that "your partner may or may not be innocent"?

[Kison]

My guess is that should either I or Jalyn end up being insane or another variation of cop, that it would be a minus on the required scum balancing roles.

Wouldn't that also indicate that perhaps there is no Godfather because one of you may therefore be benefiting scum because of your sanity? I think it's pretty obvious that there's a roleblocker out there. And, in fact, because of your sanity(and scum may know of it based on the results that you've given), they may not even bother killing you during the night. Keep that in mind if you end up surviving until tomorrow.

[Kison]

Why do you say that innocence is not guaranteed? Is it because the role does not specify that IH is innocent, or because the role specifically states that "your partner may or may not be innocent"?

My role PM states that I am unaware of IH's alignment (though in a somewhat stronger, more weasel wordish manner).

Zindy, I don't get why you claimed nor do I get why you would die the following night.

Let's say it's true, eh? The Eurogames are scum and the Americagames are town. Then I've got a known scumbag in my hand and IH knows it. So I'd have to be killed as quickly as possible.

That's very interesting. Had your role not hinted at your unawarance of IH's alignment, I'd be more inclined to believe he was town, but with the Euro game VS American game theme speculation, and that hint, that may very well be the case.

If IH is scum, that would explain this :

I'm pretty sure Glork is an experienced enough mod to not put in a breaking strategy for roles, and trying to out guess him is retarded.

Unfortunately, with our doc gone, it becomes harder to test our cop's sanity. However, I'd be more inclined to believe that Ectomancer is the insane cop if IH turned out to be scum, mainly because IH pushed for us to

1) believe that one of our cops is insane and
2) That Cranium, the doc who got no results, is the insane cop

Zindaras

- As Masons, have you and IH had any conversations we should know about?

[Kison]

Any reason he thought there was a second scum group.

[Kison]

No Result.

[Kison]

I don't think that discussing possible theme setups is doing us any harm. However, I will agree that taking it as fact at this point in time will do us no good, mainly because it's simply a theory at this point.

[Kison]

I don't think that discussing possible theme setups is doing us any harm. However, I will agree that taking it as fact at this point in time will do us no good, mainly because it's simply a theory at this point.

If it's not doing us any good, then it's doing us harm by distracting us from a more fruitful conversation of the day. There's plenty else that has happened.

I said it will do us no good

at this point in time

. It may very well turn out to be useful at a later time.

[Kison]

Unvote

Twito : Are you certain that your boosting ability works the way you seem to be implying?

[Kison]

And if #2 is correct, he'd be a strong lynch target for tomorrow, which is why I am leaning towards believing him. #1, however, is what I am worried about.

[Kison]

The booster role could just give a % chance of success over a role-block instead of 100% chance of success. Twito, is there any reason you have to think that your ability would suppress a role-block completely and not just partially?

[Kison]

I thought that was brought up earlier, too.

Inform me if I wind up being the lynch for the day. I'll give you all in-depth pbp analysis before it goes down.

In the mean time, I will look into IH/DoS. Will get back to you all on that one.

[Kison]

Inform me if I wind up being the lynch for the day. I'll give you all in-depth pbp analysis before it goes down.

Why don't you do that now?

Why don't

you

?

[Kison]

Inform me if I wind up being the lynch for the day. I'll give you all in-depth pbp analysis before it goes down.

Why don't you do that now?

Why don't

you

?

I generally think they're a waste of time. However, you seem to think your contribution would be worthwhile, yet are holding out. Why?

I only plan on doing it if I wind up being the lynch for the day. Why would I do it? Because I will, upon death, be a confirmed innocent. You would therefore be certain of the intentions of my suspicions, even if they were not all accurate, whereas with everyone else, it's be quite the contrary. I don't really feel like wasting my time if I don't end up being the lynch, though.

[Kison]

Why Me/DoS? I'm just wondering, because this seems to come out of the blue, or have I just missed some comments from you?

A hunch, maybe?

[Kison]

Prod received. Still here. Waiting to be lynched. That is all.

[Kison]

The bottom of the thread, right under the "submit" button.

[Kison]

The PbP analysis was never meant to be used in my defense, so voting me for it is spreading imaginary icing on that cake of yours, there. As Thesp pointed out, it's not entirely helpful, though I'd planned on doing it anyways, I don't have the time to do it in the detail I had wanted. Sorry to burst your bubble of hope.

[Kison]

First, that was not really the bulk of why I'm voting for you. Secondly, you're not really seeing my point in bringing up those promised analyses. You even explained why it's important when you defended yourself against Thesp.

I never said it was the bulk of your response, however, I think it's an invalid part. I was pointing it out. I don't a PbP analysis is

important

, and definitely not necessary, but it could be useful.

We really have nothing to go on besides "Twito is scum, well maybe not now." A pro-town player would at least want us to gain something from their lynch and scum have nothing to gain by putting out a list of suspects that we could pore over.

I've posted my thoughts on more than just Twito in the past. You'd be wise to go back and look.

Yeah, but it probably didn't hurt. You can say it was never meant in your defense, but it's a nice way to pull your butt out of the fire. "Don't lynch me, I have some good info!"

I was hardly defending myself against Thesp. Aside from that, I said I'd do it

if I was to be lynched

, so how the hell would it be a sort of plead if I knew I was going to die anyway? You can make it out to be that way all you want, but this is just another way for you to legitimize your vote.

There you go: Look at IH tomorrow. Tunnel-Visioned posts like this are why I had planned to look into him.

How about this. Did you start one?

I hadn't planned to do one until I was pretty certain I'd be lynched. I'm at lynch minus one, however, I don't have the time to go in depth nearly as much as I had planned to. I'll do a quickie, however.

In fact, I encourage anyone who has the time to do the same. Chances are scum will kill someone tonight. That person will likely be town. Analysis from two townies is better than one.

[Kison]

DoS : Scummy. Only posts when it's convenient for

him

. Sits on the hot wagons. Justified in the past as his playstyle, which doesn't cut it for me, mainly because if he continues this behavior, chances of him slipping up are unlikely, and therefore, his behavior is not pro-town because we will never be sure about him.

One recent example that I disliked was this:

If you look at my posts in isolation you can find many that respond to other peoples thoughts with my own

I don't think I've ever seen DoS come up with something completely on his own. So he plays Mr. agreeable and just borrows other people's theories so he can't be placed in a bad light for coming up with something inaccurate.

IH : I feel he is scummy, but I have less to go on here, and this is more of a gut feeling. I explained this somewhat in my response above. He's been pushing damn hard for a lynch. And, really, nothing is going to sway people's minds until after I'm dead. So just go back and take a look at his pushing, and more recently than not.

HackerHuck : Probably town. Lurkerish, but he is in other games, too. When he's around, he comes up with content, unlike DoS.

Thesp : Probably town. Not sure, though. Definitely keeping things moving, so that's a plus.

Jalyn : Honestly, thought she was town until recently. I don't quite buy Twito's determination that she's scum, but it does cast a shadow on her.

Twito : Thought he was scum. Doubt it, now, with his claim/role hints. Scummy behavior yesterday, though, with asking for the cop's investigation before hand.

Fritzler : Worse of a lurker than DoS. Not nearly as opportunistic, however, nor defensive.

Ectomancer : Unsure of himself. Jumpy. Leaning towards town, regardless. Another type of thing you'll have to wait till I'm dead to look into. Not going to clear him by any means.

Everyone else : Not sure. Not enough time to go look back. I hit most of the main ones, though.

That's it.

[Kison]

Huh. That's a relatively poor analysis. I was hoping for some new insight, or at least a different take on the old insights; basically all you've done mostly is say some stuff about play styles that's painfully obvious. I mean, I could copy and paste your comment about Fritzler and put it in any game he's playing; same to a lesser extent for your comments about Thesp/HH.

And you do things like analyze IH but not Zindaras (when their alignments are probably connected) and Fritzler but not me (there's the weird connection there).

Did you happen to miss the part where I said I don't have the

time

to go in depth? I wish I did, but I don't. I was asked to give something, so I did. Sorry if it's not what you expected.

[Kison]

Just double checking.... Kison, you claimed "no role" right? as in townie?

Townie, no role. Board Game is Monopoly.

[Kison]

Pretty much. Might as well finish it, unless there are more pending questions you want answered from me. With a deadline in place, chances of an alternative lynch at this point are extremely unlikely, unless we find another Battle Mage slip like yesterday.

[Kison]

*continues breathing*

[Kison]

But, Thesp, I'm not

broken

...

[Kison]

But, Thesp, I'm not

broken

...

I was referring to the fact that you are still breathing.

I know. =)

[Kison]

Post deleted at Kison's request -- posted in the wrong thread.

-Glork

[Kison]

I played horribly.

I told you Monopoly wasn't scum!

[Kison]

well, i dont think my play in this game was anything to write home about. I do feel that my lynch was kind of pathetic. I never really had a chance to defend myself, so at the time, i felt a bit cheated. Even so, it was great to work with such an experienced scumteam. Even though we lost, i really felt that the others knew what they were doing, which is always pretty reassuring.
Definitely a group i would want to play with again, and a deserved win by the town all-in-all.

Was my fault. I accidentally hammered you.