Consulmaker - Carthage wins!

[Yosarian2]

Hey, everyone.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, after finishing my re-read:

fos:mos

. I really don't like that LOE he came up with yesterday, at ALL. Zind and Ruffles both seem rather pro-town to me, and it feels like he was just mirroring Zind's list anyway. I also find it odd that he would try so hard during day 1 to get power (to get elected tribune), that he would get elected tribune and then get picked counsul, and then not do much once he got that power.

[Yosarian2]

LoL, where did I try hard to become Tribune? I posted an "election speech" for the hell of it, and that was it. After that, I spent most of Day 1 defending myself against BM's ridiculous logic. As for yesterday, the crash caused me to not have enough time to finish out the day the way I'd wanted to. I don't see what's "odd" about that, since it was entirely external influences that caused Day 2 to go the way it did.

Well, I note that much of your arguing against BM seemed to be you arguing that you should be elected Tribune; BM didn't seem to be suggesting that you be executed (I don't think, not always entirely clear what BM means). For example, this response, I think, definatly was an attempt on your part to get elected tribune:

i originally voted for Twito because i thought he was a genuine sorta guy who would play the game honestly if he was town. He didnt turn up, and Raffles did, so i changed my vote to him. Evidently Raffles is active, and from his posts i would say he is perceptive. given a choice between someone who looks like clever scum (MoS) and someone who i feel will play the game properly, i chose Raffles. I still think he is the best candidate we have at the moment.
i will ask the same question about the MoS wagon. Why vote for him? i dont want the same old answer- "hes really good". How do you know he isnt scum?, and most of all, why has no-one picked up on the fact that BOTH consuls have voted for him?
BM

Raffles - the question wasn't

whether or not you could make substantial posts,

it was

whether you actually

had

. In other words - there is absolutely no reason for you to have such following - yet you do. Why? Is this inexperienced scum attempting to support one of their own, not realizing that they were giving themselves away? Newbies blindly following the person that they see the most? Quite frankly, I'd like to hear explanations from everyone who voted for Raffles as to why. It makes no logical sense.

BM, isn't the fact that both Consuls voted me generally a point in my favor? The consulmaker picked fairly experienced and reliable players, and the chances of both being scum are slim to none. The fact that both of them would trust me with Tribune is just a monument to my perceived experience by other good players.

Also, if you bothered to read my other games, you'd notice that I look scummy in most every game, regardless of alignment. I think it has something to do with the fact that I don't really care about looking protown. My priorities are not to protect myself, but to protect the town and search out all the scum. If the town lynches me because of my methods (which are tried and true), so be it. At least after I'm dead they'll know I was protown and can lynch the scumbags I found.

If you want an example of my playing ability, check out Himalayan Mafia. With a mountainous setup (no power roles, just scum and townies), I helped lead lynches on scum Day 1 and Day 2, then opposed the Day 3 lynch where the town mislynched. I was killed Night 3, the same night that I figured out both of the remaining scum. This is verifiable by asking several of the people I told my suspicions to when I died, including LML, the scum that everyone else considered cleared except me and Lloyd. Ironicly enough, I think that was one of the games where no one thought me particularly scummy. Of course, part of the reason I don't mind looking scummy is that no scum bothers to kill me since they figure they can get me lynched. Games like Himalayan where I manage to look protown, the scum get all scared and kill me off (I was told that the scum actually tried to kill me Night 2, but missed the deadline and had a random kill instead).

Does that answer your question, BM, or are you still unsure of your parameters?

Now, I don't think it's inherently scummy that you were trying to become tribune; I usually try to get elected to "mayor" type positions whenever I'm pro-town myself. However, it seems wierd to me that you tried to become tribune, but after you were tribune and then the next day became council , and even after you were counsul, you didn't really DO all that much. You kept arguing over irrelevencies with BM for most of the rest of that day. The next day, you didn't do much relevent for most of the day; I like the idea of telling people who they should comment on as a way to get participation up, and that worked well, but other then that the only other thing you did was your LOE, which again as I already said I didn't like.

Your whole argument of why you should be tribune because you are experenced was probably also why you became concil, and it's true enough that you are experenced, but then after getting it you didn't really use the kingship to pressure people much or to hunt scum, which seems odd to me.

[Yosarian2]

BM: We really do want to kill the elephent, who's probably a SK or something. Right now, if there continue to be 2 kills every night, we don't have that much time left; with 1 lynch and 2 kills every night, tommorow we'd have 10 people, the next day we'd have 7, and the next day we'd have 4 and could lose. So with 2 kills a night ,we don't have much time left to find all the scum. If we can find and get rid of the SK today, that'd give us more days to lynch the bad guys.

[Yosarian2]

Why is there all this support for the eye of morder? He didn't really stand out to me in my initial read-though. Can someone explain?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I could support that.

vote:Raffles

. However, if MOS would like to clarify exactally why he thought Raffles was scummy enough to be on his LOE yesterday, that might be helpful; the only argument he made was he suggested a possible Raffles/Kirson link, which is obveously now irrelvent. Any other reasons for your suspicions on Raffles yesterday, MOS?

[Yosarian2]

Agreed. Why wouldn't a pro-town vote himself if there were no better options? ARe you just trying to look good, TEOM?

[Yosarian2]

There really isn't any real good reason that I am not self voting. Except that I just stated that I wouldn't. Which would make it hypocritical if I did.
Yos said that maybe I was trying to look good. What good would that do when it looks bad?

That's a WIFOM argument if I ever saw one.

Like I said, it sounds like you're more interested in trying not to look hypocritical then in making the right move, and being more worried about how you appear then about what your move actually does can be a scum tell.

Zind: I'll go back and re-read battle mage and cephirir, and then give you an answer.

[Yosarian2]

Please say exactly where you put them in your scum-range, on a 1 to 9 scale. (1-3 being town, 4-6 being unsure, 7-9 being scum. (1 to 9 to make the gradations nicer)

Ok. Battle mage: Seems about normal behavior for him; lots of activity, some weak logic and a few weird, but I don't think that's really a scum tell for him. His pro-town play, from what I've seen, is so odd it's hard applying any normal standards to him, I don't really know how to read him personally yet, so let's just say that I see no clear read on him at the moment. I'd say about a 4 or 5.

Cephir: Don't really like his voting history, and he's used little logic for his posts and his votes. Nothing in his posting history makes me think he's a pro-town player looking for scum. 7

MOS: Getting some mixed signals from him, but definatly suspicious of him. Really don't like his LOE yesterday; he says he "didn't have time" to do better, but he was console for the whole day, he should have had time to put more thought into his suspiciouns then that post showed. 8

[Yosarian2]

Zindaras seems rather pro-town to me. Screw that WIFOM junk, killing a scum has to be a town tell. And besides that, the kill made a lot of sense to me. Granted, a scum could kill a scum day 1 just to look pro-town, but I don't really see that as the most likely scenerio in this case. I'd give him about a 2 at the moment.

Tribunal Vote Count

Raffles - 3(Cephrir, Shanba, Yosarian2)
Yosarian2 - 1(Battle Mage)

[Yosarian2]

Shanba made some good points; most of my feelings of Zinderas being pro-town were based on what happened with N9V. I still don't think Zineras was scum with N9V, but that dosn't mean Zinderas is not the SK, which I hadn't really thought about; an SK Zinderas would love to kill a mafia day 1, in fact. So I'd like to see Zinderas' response to Shanba's post.

[Yosarian2]

BM's...generally not the most logical player, no matter what his role is.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, me and raffles being tribune sounds fine to me.

[Yosarian2]

As much as I do trust my gut, in the game like this, I would be a little more careful about using gut as a reason for execution. In this game Consuls effectively hold all the vote. I would rather use it as a safety zone to fall back to, rather than my main reason for execution. If you get what I mean.

Eh, I've got no problem with seeing someone execute a semi-lurker on day 1 due in part to a scummy vibe coming from them. Day 1 lynches usually aren't based on much more then that anyway...

[Yosarian2]

One worth risking it all Day 1?

So, are you actually trying to argue that scum are less likely to vote one of their partners for tribune on day 1? I don't see how that follows. It's not a huge advantage for the scum, sure, but I can't see how having one of the scum as tribune could be considered a disadvantage for the scum, unless he uses the tribune powers in a really stupid way.

And that being said, I also can't really see you as scum sticking your neck out to protect N9V; N9V's one of those players that tends to get lynched early and often no matter what his role is, so vetoing his execution on day 1 would be a pretty silly risk for a scum to take, especally as N9V'd probably end up executed on day 2 or 3 anyway, no experenced scum would want to make a link between you and him that obveous that early in the game. Too high risk, too low payoff.

So if you're trying to argue that you becoming tribune and not vetoing N9V day 1 is evidence you're town, I don't buy it. I tend to think you would have done that no matter what your alignment is.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, please respond to my Cephrir case.

I'm with MOS on this one; I'd be glad to respond, if you could explain exactally what your cephrir case is. I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at specifically with your analysis post of him.

"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse." Vote Count

Battle Mage - 2(Occult, TheEyeOfMordor)
TheEyeOfMordor - 1(Battle Mage)

[Yosarian2]

Ok, some good points about Cephrir there, Zinderas. He's certanyl been a lurker. I agree that he's been very jumpy on the BJ issue. I also agree with you that the wierd behavior towards Raffles might be scummy, although I'm not sure that indicates a Cephrir-Raffles scum link.

I'm not sure what you mean by a Primate link, though. Could you clarify that?

[Yosarian2]

Heh..I highly doubt Zind would lie about the history.

Anyway, I don't care about flavor. In a good game flavor's just there to confuse people. It's the night choices I'm not buying here. Why kill TS? And you think you were roleblocked? Can anyone verify that?

[Yosarian2]

I wouldn't veto a cephrir kill. That being said, something about Battle Mage's last couple of posts is making me a bit uneasy about it.

[Yosarian2]

I wouldn't veto a cephrir kill. That being said, something about Battle Mage's last couple of posts is making me a bit uneasy about it.

Yeah, BM suddenly likes me.

Heh. Yeah, that's part of it. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm just getting a bad vibe from BM's recent anti-ceprir posts.

[Yosarian2]

Could you clarify why TS gave you "a bad feeling"? Was there one of his posts in specific that gave you a "bad feeling"?

[Yosarian2]

Dude, if he's willing to kill battlemage for us, perhaps we can let Cephrir live another night.

Seriously, I'm not sure which one of the two is scummier at this point. I'm still not buying Cephrir's claim of his actions, but eh, BM is just pushing all my wrong buttons.

[Yosarian2]

Nope. I already said I wasn't going to veto this, and I'm not. Cephrir's claimed actions just don't make any sense. The only thing that was giving me qualms was BM's behavior, but that's not enough to counter the logical arguments against Cephrir. No veto.

[Yosarian2]

(don't prud?...)

[Yosarian2]

I'm pretty sure BM is the lynch today.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm.

Well, like I said before, I don't think Zinderas is mafia. I think he's either town or SK; town's probably more likely, but either one is possible. So, unless the consuls are considering executing him today, I actually wouldn't mind him being tribune, as I don't think there's any risk uf him using tribue powers to save a scumbuddy. The only possible downside to Zinderas being tribune would be that it would mean he couldn't be executed today.

So, let me ask the consuls. Is Zinderas someone you would consider executing today? If he is, then we shouldn't give him automatic protection by electing him tribune, but if not, eh, I don't see any reason he shouldn't be one.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah; looking back on it now, the whole "Zinderas must be a SK because he guessed right about the elephent thing" is pretty weak. It might be a decent argument if we were talking about a newbie un-thinkingly revealing role info like that, but I can't see a strong player like Zinderas making that mistake if he actually was an elephentine SK. (Yes, WIFOM potential there, but I also can't see Zinderas doing something dumb like day 1 as a SK and hoping that we'll WIFOM it, that dosn't make sense to me either).

vote:zinderas

. If someone can put together a reasonable argument about him being SK or scum, I'll re-consider it, but as of this moment it dosn't seem that likely to me.

[Yosarian2]

FoS Yos

Every opinion you've given seems to be following the crowd and you've been a bit complacent and wishy-washy for my tastes.

:eyebrow:

Every opinion I've given is following the crowd? Really?

My main opinion today is that Battle Mage is scum, and that's not "following the crowd". that's a direct result of the points I made yesterday. Other arguments I've made (like arguing since yesterday that Zinderas is probably not mafia, like my suspicions of MOS early yesrtday) were also certanly not "following the crowd", they were all way ahead of the curve, opinions I stated before anyone else did.

[Yosarian2]

Battlemage, that's bull. I said yesterday that your attacks on Cephir felt like a scum were giving me a really bad vibe. That wasn't "following the crowd", no one else was really attacking you at that point in time or for that reason. Your posts towards the end of the day yesterday really felt to me like a scum trying to get a townie lynched, and the feeling was so strong that it made me doubt the whole Cephir wagon.

Tribunal Vote Count

Zindaras - 2(Rand Althor, Yosarian2)
Mastermind of Sin - 1(Battle Mage)
Shanba - 1(Mastermind of Sin)

[Yosarian2]

There was a fairly large base of opinion concluding that a BM lynch would be a good execution that day. I can see why exactly his posts made you suspicious, but I can definitely see you trying to set up today's lynch that way on a scummy looking player.

So...you think it's bad that I'm trying to lynch a player that looks scummy?

Look, I'm not someone who's always trying to lynch Battle Mage because of his playstyle. I wasn't esepcally suspicious of him until late in the day yesterday. But by the same token, just because his playstyle often looks suspicious, dosn't mean he's NOT scum in this game, so I pay attention to his actions to try to figure out his alignment, and his actions towards the end of the day yesterday make me think he's scum. It seems like you're trying to say that "a lot of people wanted BM executed yesterday" is an argument to NOT lynch him, which makes no sense.

Also, arguing that Zindie was not mafia and that MoS was scum were hardly controversial opinions in the climate of yesterday as both consuls were suspicious of MoS (a suspicion I've dropped a lot of now, given the way he responded to me).

You've got the timing wrong. I FOS' MOS yesterday at the start of the day, before either of the consuls said anything about him. The day before that, MOS was consul, and the day before that, he was tribune. I could be wrong, I'm not going to re-read the first 2 days right now, but I don't remember anyone attacking him before I did. So I certanly wan't "following the crowd" there.

And arguing that Zindie was not mafia, given that only MoS and Battle Mage really were arguing he was scum I'm none too imprssed by that either.

(shrug) The way the tribune system works, we want to find people who almost certanly aren't mafia to appoint for tribune, so there was a good reason for me to be explaining why I didn't think Zinderas was mafia. Again, I stated an opinion of my own, I certanly wan't "following hte crowd".

Your statement that I've been "doing nothing but following the crowd" is basically completly wrong; if anything, the crowd's been following me most of the time.

At this point though, it's still somewhat of a feeling, but I'm just not feeling your play so far this game (especially with you as tribune yesterday and therefore an obligation to contribute more than most).

Oh? You don't think I've been contributing more then average? Why do you say that?

[Yosarian2]

I wonder if Battle Mage is just trying to protect himself here by voting for someone who might not want him executed.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, now that the other game is over, I can say this...

One of the reasons i really was suspicious of Battlemage's attack at the end of the day yesterday was that his play here felt to me just like his play over in Mutually Assured Distruction, a game I just modded, when Battlemage was (very sucessfull) scum. He did just that kind of attack over and over again in MAD mafia.

[Yosarian2]

Zindaras, your post 912 was just the argument devolving into "You did something scummy!"..."No I didn't, your reasoning is bonkers!"..."Yes you did!"..."No I didn't!"..."Ya-huh!"..."Nu-uh!"...

I don't fault Shanba for not responding to that.

:eyebrow:

Really? I thought Zind's defense, which was basically that in a game involving Hannibal someone getting killed by elephents is a pretty obvous thing to guess and so the fact that he guessed it dosn't prove much, was actually pretty solid. Not a perfect defense, but it certanly wasn't a "no i didn't" "yes you did" thing.

PPE: Looking back, it looks like that whole defense wan't in 912, just bacially a defense of the defense. Still, I don't really find the "Zinderas guessed there was an elephent so he must be the elephent SK" argument to be all that strong.

[Yosarian2]

I'm curious, MOS; who would you suggest our 2 tribunes today should be?

[Yosarian2]

I would not have expected Elephants to be a suggestion, nor would I have been able to come up with an answer to that question.

(shrug) He is right, though. Say to anyone "Hannibal invading the Roman Empire" and the first thing most people would think of would be the way he managed to get war elephents through the mountains. It's basically the most well known part of the story for most people.

[Yosarian2]

Actually, Occult, I think Shanba has the most support for Tribune right now. I don't think Zindaras has more than 1 or 2 votes, but a vote count could prove me wrong.

Not quite sure if you're right there, but in any case, at the moment I think the two of them have more votes then anyone else; Zinderas/Shanba as tribunes seems to be where we're heading at the moment. If anyone else has any objections to that, or any better ideas for tribune, I'd speak up now.

[Yosarian2]

Well, nothing wrong with listening to a gut feeling. Who would you rather have as co-tribune with you?

Tribunal Vote Count

Shanba - 3(Mastermind of Sin, Battle Mage, Occult)
Zindaras - 2(Rand Althor, Yosarian2)

[Yosarian2]

tbh, this is currently what's bothering me the most. I get a bad feeling from almost every player left alive in the game (I feel paranoid) except for one of the consuls (Occult I'm also somewhat worried about.)
If I go through the list, I'm almost leaning towards MoS tribune of the players left alive, but currently I'm abstaining from voting. Ubertimmy might also work having replaced him while he was playing a similar game in Kingmaker II and he was town (I'm dead in that, just in case your worried). But I don't really want a lurker tribune.
I'm going to have to go back through this game sooner or later and do a re-read, as while paranoia is a healthy thing in mafia, it's not helpful when I'm finding ever player in the game as suspicoius.

(nods) Actually, I agree; in my notes for this game, most of the people playing look suspicious to me, one way or the other.

[Yosarian2]

This is bad. I don't really know who to suggest. My tentative suggestions for execution would be Yos2 or Battle Mage. For Yos2, I just have an ugly feeling that he's playing us, but it's completely gut :/. For BM, he's scummy, but iunno. He's my second choice on a bad list of possible executions.

What? You were just suggesting me for tribune LAST PAGE. Are you getting this game mixed up with the kingmaker game or something?

[Yosarian2]

Shit, I'm not getting drunk until tonight...

Hehe...

So, I guess that means you just got the games confused then?

[Yosarian2]

Care to explain that, battle mage?

[Yosarian2]

As I've been saying all day, I think BM's pretty obveously scum.

[Yosarian2]

Occult: Like I said before, the way BM was attacking Cephrir yesterday look to me like scum trying to get a good guy lynched.

[Yosarian2]

Interesting. Yeah, we could test the ability today, but only if we were willing to let a counul order the execution of two different people we don't really want to die just so Shanba can veto both of them.

Might be worthwhile to take the risk in order to test her ability, it's not really an ability I can see scum as likely to have.

[Yosarian2]

well Yos has spent the last day and a bit chasing shadows. he's playing aggressively, which i have known him to do as scum. If he was town, id expect him to be far more perceptive. I mean Yos, you witnessed my play as scum first hand in MAD Mafia. im sure you will remember that my play was fairly cagey, and i wasnt atall aggressive. You also saw me as town, in Hell on Earth, in which i spent 2 days trying my damn hardest to get you (scum) lynched. So, please explain why you feel i am scum here, because i dont get it.

MoS has decided to take a laid back approach to the game, which i also find odd from him. his play earlier on was scummy, and the fact that he hasnt been killed, or been particularly proactive, are indications that something is wrong.

Actually, your attack on Cephir feels exactally to me like your play in MAD mafia. In MAD mafia, you kind of held back until the town was going in a certian direction you liked, and then you started throwing arguments in favor of it, no matter if it was Theo, Pooky, or whatever; trying to undermine or cast doubt upon their claims, epecally Pooky's claim, to give support to the wagon, but never leading it. That's just like what it felt to me like you were doing at the end of the day yesterday in this game.

On the other hand, when I have seen you as pro-town, you're much more likely to go off on a limb and go on some theory of your own rather then follow the crowd. With Cephir, you were following the crowd. Not only that, the posts you were attacking Cepher with felt really, really off to me; they felt like scum trying to get a good guy lynched. I had that gut feeling yesterday, and your response was:

defence of scum duely noted.

[Yosarian2]

Shouldn't there be more people playing then this? Is Ubertimmy still in the game? Twito hasn't said anything in weeks either, other then yelling at the mod for prodding him.

[Yosarian2]

Well, I'm quite often agreesive when town, MOS; probably the most recent example in a completed game would be in Lights Out II, where I was town and was extremly agressive, pushing through quite a few bandwagons.

[Yosarian2]

this seems awful like a setup. until i have read the entirety of Lights Out 2 (which conveniently i did not play, and is an awesomely long game) Yos's comments mean very little.

:eyebrow:

You were the one who was trying to say that I'm agressive as scum but not as town, BJ. That was your entire argument against me, and it's simply not true. MOS asked for a counter-example, and I gave him one. Why, do you want more examples of me being agressive as town?

[Yosarian2]

Ok, if you're paying attention to votecounts, then

vote:battlemage

[Yosarian2]

Yos: Wuuuh?

?

Occult made a big deal about how "Rand has 2 votes and BM has none"; I clearly have suspected BM all day but wasn't bothing to vote him since votes don't really matter, but if Occult (one of the Consuls) is paying attention to votecounts, then I might as well vote.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, Rand is looking quite scummy here; he might very well be the SK, and is now trying to make us think there isn't one.

[Yosarian2]

Soon.

As in, soon you'll post more content? Soon we should lynch you for lurking in plain sight? Or what?

[Yosarian2]

After being in mafia 62 with rand, when he was a mafia and the only reason we caught him was because I didn't let him get away with hardcore lurking all game, and after seeing how much he's lurked in this game so far, I'm definatly wondering if he tends to lurk more as scum then as town.

[Yosarian2]

That didn't help, but I was after you for a while before that, mostly becaue I found your lurking scummy, rand. And you've lurked a lot in this game as well.

[Yosarian2]

Sarcastro: I agree with what you're saying, but I would like you to clarify what your thoughts on this particular lynch are. Do you think BM is scummy? If you had to guess right now, what do you think the outcome of this lynch will be?

[Yosarian2]

I'm here. I've got no problem with either sarc or me as tribune at this point. We might also want to elect Shanba as tribune just to test her claim, I guess.

By the way, Rand, there is no second tribune. Only one tribune today.

[Yosarian2]

Do'h. I'm sorry, don't know why I keep doing that.

[Yosarian2]

No, Rand, I don't think we should all claim before we select the tribune. I don't see any reason for a mass claim right now, at all.

[Yosarian2]

Well, care to explain why you think a mass claim is necessary now, Rand?

[Yosarian2]

Well we are at 8 alive. Remember that we have lost alot of roman citizens and we might not have any left. So if the consulmaker dies we probably will lose.

Wouldn't that be a good reason to NOT have a mass claim, if true?

[Yosarian2]

Third, I really don't like that you claimed your rolename at the same time as you asked whether or not we should have a massclaim. That reeks of scum wanting to get out his safeclaim as soon as possible, especially given that you didn't claim your actual role, just your name.

(shrug) Well, it's pretty clear he wanted to name-claim, but considering how he's the main lynch target for today, I'm not sure if that's a scum tell or just a nervous-town tell. Granted, in theory it probably would have been better if he'd waited until he was actually being bandwagoned, but meh, I don't really hold the somewhat premature name-claim against him considering the trouble he's in at the moment, especally considering how one never really knows just how hair-trigger the king's going to be.

[Yosarian2]

Also, if we are at lylo, having a confirmed innocent in the consulmaker could be very useful.

Meh. So long as the dictator gives the person a chance to claim before executing him, there's no danger of executing the consulmaker, so having the consulmaker claim now wouldn't really change the odds at all.

[Yosarian2]

Also, I really doubt that we have a five-person scumgroup on our hands. I'm willing to bet that there are just two mafia and the SK left.

Oh? Why is that?

[Yosarian2]

Well, if they do, they're wrong; the correct procedure is to discuss a mass claim thoroughly before anyone claims.

[Yosarian2]

Well, I'd be interested to hear what our king Zinderas has to say about Shanba before we elect her tribune, as he specficially said

I'd prefer Sarc or Yos as Tribune today, as I'm fairly sure I'm not going to execute either.

[Yosarian2]

Edit: Um, that should have said "before we elect him tribune".

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I know, I know. Sorry Shanba.

Anyway, if Zind has some questions he wants to ask Shanba, and wouldn't consider a sarcastro lynch, then I might as well

vote:Sarcastro

for tribune.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, got prodded. Hello.

I'm curious about what questions Zinderas wanted to ask Shanba.

Also, sarcastro, while we're waiting for Zind to post a LOE or something, one question I'm wondering is, who do you think is pro-town? Who you veto today if Zind decided to kill them?

[Yosarian2]

The deadline is when, tommorow?

Well, I still think Rand is quite scummy. Let me check my game notes about occult...

Hmm. Well, I definatly thought occult was looking pro-town earlier in the game. Haven't updated those notes in a while, so let me re-read what he's done in the last day or so.

[Yosarian2]

Eh. Occult didn't really do as much of his own reasoning as I would like to see while he was consul, but other then that not really getting any major scum vibes off of him.

Zind, can you explain what it is you don't like about occult?

[Yosarian2]

Well, I see what you mean about Occult, but I would still rather see Rand be killed.

Anyway, just make sure you get the choice in before deadline, whenever that is.

[Yosarian2]

So we have, what, 48 hours now for occult to claim? How does that work?

[Yosarian2]

(nods) Yeah, he obv had me fooled.

On a side note, I figured one thing about this game was that it seemed like it was really obveous I was the consulmaker; just because there were 2 consuls every day, and they couldn't be the same people, I thought it was pretty obveous I was the consulmaker just because I hadn't been made Consul yet.

[Yosarian2]

But why Raffles and Occult on Day 4?

Occult was actually right about this one; he said:

The Consulmaker really wants BM gone doesn't he?

I really, really thought BM was scum at the time. I picked two counsuls who I figured were not scum with BM, and who seemed likely to execute BM that day; they'd both attacked him in the past. Basically, by picking them, I more or less guarenteed BM would be lynched that day. Now, if I had been right about BM being scum, that would have been a good play...