X-Men: Age of Apocalypse (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

Feu is town.

[borkjerfkin]

And you of all people don't get to fucking vote a person for 'screwing the objectives over'

[borkjerfkin]

Yes we want to lynch scum

We also want to get a sensor to aid with lynching scum

These are not fucking mutually exclusive

[borkjerfkin]

Are you suggesting that I set a precedent and now anyone is free to do it, regardless of rhyme and reason? Screw you once, shame on me. Screw you twice, shame on you.

No, I'm suggesting that if you did it because you wanted to scumhunt more, you should be more sympathetic than most that someone did it cause they thought that person was scum.

[borkjerfkin]

I understand that, but in your efforts to obtain your precious sensor, you have become so dialed in on that aspect that your global scum hunting suffers.

I don't think it has and irrelevant anyway because muffin boned us out of it today anyway. I want AP dead because I think he is scum.

[borkjerfkin]

It seems just too convenient to me.

It's not. Feu's town.

[borkjerfkin]

our hood is mostly ETL and me yelling at each other, fair warning

[borkjerfkin]

Everyone in front of me needs to unvote and revote

[borkjerfkin]

Need eek feu and etl on wagon

[borkjerfkin]

I fucked up yesterday. I'll tell everyone what the hood was protecting in a few minutes - something literally just came up at work that can't wait.

[borkjerfkin]

I fucked up yesterday. I'll tell everyone what the hood was protecting in a few minutes - something literally just came up at work that can't wait.

Going to defer this for a little bit actually based on hood discussion.

[borkjerfkin]

Our NK prediction was Ika (4-1)(failed).

Same.

[borkjerfkin]

My neighborhood is filled with scumfucks

Anyway do you want to be more specific on this? Did something specific happen?

[borkjerfkin]

I can't help but think that's specifically to me.

Man I can't wait to read the dead QT that's going to be really fun.

[borkjerfkin]

And more importantly

1) why that didn't come out yesterday
2) why it drove ULF to suspect AP and not you (since AFAIK you are also a tracker)

[borkjerfkin]

I'm with ika; there is pretty much a 100% chance that nero was killed by scum, ulf claims he knows who that is...

This is gonna bag us scum one way or another

[borkjerfkin]

Oh yeah, on that - I'd like A LOT MORE clarification of what the fuck is going on with ika/ULF. I don't understand what ika was saying.

If ULF does indeed have the name of the person who killed Nero, he needs to out it immediately. Like right the hell now.

Was literally just about to post this. Can other people in the neighborhood corroborate/clarify what ika is saying?

@those voting eek: if this is just cause he did an unprompted vote, what makes this different than the other like 3000 times this has happened this game? Like I'm actually more inclined to believe and accidental vote than someone doing it on purpose. I'm not interested in eek today, I'm interested in clarifying this ika/ulf thing.

[borkjerfkin]

K. Rogue (ns) killed my townread on them with that aggression towards eek.

Actually, why? You were just as suspicious of eek in the hood

[borkjerfkin]

My experience with scum ns was in viscon crossroads and he never exuded an ounce of aggression all game. What games are you referencing?

[borkjerfkin]

That's not what you said in the hood PT? Unless I misunderstood.

No what I said was that he didn't do much yesterday. I expect scum NS to start to fade, not go super aggressive.

[borkjerfkin]

also this just in, it apparently says the TEAM killed nero, it doesnt say who. it is apprently the perosn who is not on jiffys team by his words.

I've never heard of any type of role that reports this, but either way:

AP (Town) killed M&C
"Someone" (that we can safely assume is not blue scum) killed Jiffy.

In other words, where DID blue scum kill go?

Possibilities:

Blue collided on Nero with the other team (in which case I'm dubious about any result that decided to report that it was just the other team)
OR there is a 4th kill that didn't go through (I guess possible, especially considering we have a blocking role flipped)
OR ULF is a lying liar who lies

[borkjerfkin]

I want ULF to tell me the name of the other scum team.

[borkjerfkin]

Hoods that still need #1 - you might wanna warm up a ULF predict just in case.

Although I'm coming to terms with the fact that we're likely never getting the fucking sensor this game because I even talk about objectives and it's all DURRR I'MA VOTE WHO I WANNA VOTE CAUSE OTHERWISE IT AIN'T SCUMHUNTING DURRR OBJECTIVES ARE BULLSHIT DURRR

You guys remind me of old school baseball analysts like Joe Morgan who hem and haw about playing the game The Right Way™ in lieu of exploiting every potential advantage they have.

[borkjerfkin]

Ulf claimed to have a role to watch 3 players and if they are killed he would get the name of the team that killed player. It is all a load of crap and initially was thinking ULF was jerking Ika around. Then Ika self voted that he would be the night kill and wouldn't budge from it. ULF did not even vote on a night kill.

That does indeed sound like fucking bollocks

VOTE: ulf

I want ETL in the front spot on this.

[borkjerfkin]

Ulf claimed to have a role to watch 3 players and if they are killed he would get the name of the team that killed player. It is all a load of crap and initially was thinking ULF was jerking Ika around. Then Ika self voted that he would be the night kill and wouldn't budge from it. ULF did not even vote on a night kill.

If I were town and had this role my first post would be 'This game is multiball and I am 100% certain of this"

[borkjerfkin]

ULF claim everything you know/have done this game right now.

Including your role.

[borkjerfkin]

ULF claim everything you know/have done this game right now.

Including your role.

[borkjerfkin]

Seriously I'm fucking tired of this smoke and mirrors shit you've been throwing at us all game.

[borkjerfkin]

Actually what you did was say that you had a result that made it likely AP is scum

Why did you say that

[borkjerfkin]

if AP is claiming vig, then let him die via night kills

hint: either there is a real vig and they will vig confirmed scum, or he's actually a vig and we shouldn't lynch him

logic is fucking difficult, hey?

i have info that shows that he is very unlikely

now shut up and vote ur making me leak all the shit like edward snowden

[borkjerfkin]

Who were your night action choices?

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

I'm going to take some time to digest/reread with this in mind.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think I want to lynch you today anymore.

If you're telling the truth, it means that the blue scum kill didn't go through.

[borkjerfkin]

large theme games are usually multiball and i wasnt very surprised

would you have been very surprised?

Surprised? No
Grateful? Yes

[borkjerfkin]

Other option:

Each team can only kill every other night (a-la Mhork's Zelda game)

That would necessitate an SK, though, otherwise that's townsided as fuck.

[borkjerfkin]

I am uncertain as to whether or not it's currently pro-town to reveal this information other than it slightly corroborates what ULF is saying. Talking it over in thread now.

[borkjerfkin]

I am advocating for spilling it, though.

[borkjerfkin]

Talking it over in

hood

now.

fixed

[borkjerfkin]

Also before it gets buried I want to make sure this is in the thread in triplicate:

Metal Sonic has a 0% chance of being blue scum

[borkjerfkin]

I think the ULF hood is the only place we should be lynching today. 3 living slots and 0 scum flips in the hood = high scum lynch chance.

I'm torn on Metal's claim, mainly because I can't distinguish between his being Town and having that role or being 'Red' scum and truthfully claiming that they killed Nero. Having him come out today with ['not jiffy' scum killed Nero] is a pretty odd lie to attempt to get the town to swallow at this point in the game, as the flips most people have seen don't point toward that conclusion.

I just don't see him making that up a day ago and being shrewd enough to use it to fake a soft-suspect AP, because the logic he gave for AP being scum is actually sensible from someone who knew that Red killed Nero; it is probably what actually happened.

I think I want to wait on Metal.

VOTE: SKOT

[borkjerfkin]

What percentage is higher:

1 or 2 out of 5
1 or 2 out of 3

?

[borkjerfkin]

ULF is in your hood, soooooo?

[borkjerfkin]

What it basically means is that we're staying the fuck out of the Venmar hood for a while.

[borkjerfkin]

The fact that the Speaker hood has been shot into twice already would also suggest that at least one team has no presence in it.

[borkjerfkin]

The fact that the Speaker hood has been shot into twice already would also suggest that at least one team has no presence in it.

Actually scratch this I read my spreadsheet wrong

[borkjerfkin]

explain why it is nonsense

[borkjerfkin]

Game morale is unnecessarily low right now

Like I was a huge mopefuck in the hood after AP flipped town. My hood members can attest to that.

But I got over it.

People are kinda being unnecessarily rude though. If you could stop doing that it might actually lead to people feeling they can share their opinions in thread without getting called stupid/sacks of shit/other wonderful language that's been getting thrown around all game.

But seriously the game is at a manageable pace postwise right now, people can go back and reread shit if they want to, we've got a mechanic that puts scum into buckets, and we've got some other shit going for us. I don't understand why everyone is all 'PLEASE END MY SUFFERING'.

If you don't want to play, the solution is to replace out. It is not to tank the game by demanding your own lynch.

And it certainly isn't to deliberately fuck over your own team.

Because people have done that this game.

People who have flipped town.

[borkjerfkin]

2) we are doing that b/c this game has become stupidly apatetic

Start being part of the solution then.

Feelings on SKOT?
Do you strongly want ULF over SKOT? If so, why?

[borkjerfkin]

nth this sentiment

I mean you guys too.

I especially don't get what you're in such a rut about.

[borkjerfkin]

I mean the most toxic players in the game for you are gone.

Help me out here.

[borkjerfkin]

otherwise i will just drop random stuff and thoughts that tend to have no snese of thingking

Read ULF vs SKOT and develop a stronger opinion about who you'd rather lynch between the two of them.

Because I want to lynch in that hood today.

[borkjerfkin]

I mean you just asked for something to do and I gave you somerhing to do.

If you don't want to do it then explain what relational tells you got between Venmar and Majiffy or something.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm trying to simmer.

Every time I look at even the title of this game I get angry.

Give me a bit.

Ok.

[borkjerfkin]

Yes. Dunno why you think you need an invitation.

[borkjerfkin]

Lynch ULF.

Hi

Posting stuff like this is going to no way affect my opinion on anything.

If you were hoping for a different reaction you should try something else

[borkjerfkin]

Dude fine if you want to be an utter non-factor on the gamestate then that's your business. I was hoping that with Titus gone that you'd branch out and I haven't seen it.

I have no idea how you're expecting me to answer why I'm 'still alive'. Why do you think I should not be?

[borkjerfkin]

he had me as conftown too

[borkjerfkin]

I don't care about the Majiffy thing. I had him down as town too until he started sheeping the Feu case FWIW. PV's got it right here - Majiffy's a huge stickler about 'don't have weird interactions with buddies'.

My problem with going ahead on ULF is that his claim corroborates how it appeared he felt about AP yesterday - if the other team really did kill Nero, it makes a lot of sense that ULF thought AP was scum. He was also crumbing a result yesterday.

I doubt Metal is making the other team name up. He either legitimately has that role or he's on the aforementioned 'red' team. I also incredibly, incredibly doubt that blue scum got a role that is so useless to a scumteam. They don't have enough members to get superfluous powers like that in multiball, and the role makes so much more sense in town hands than scum. This obviously does not absolve him of being red scum, but I am hypothesizing that he did not have the presence of mind to fake his mindset about AP so clearly yesterday.

It also fits with another thing that I know that I would really appreciate we can wait just one more day on. Can we do that?

[borkjerfkin]

i have done jack shit this whole game lol

i am a modified watcher that choose 3 targets and know the faction of whoever

shot

any of the target. scum town or whatever. i do not know the faction in the role pm. it only shows up as a result. so far we have majiffy which i forgot and the scumteam b is called "the horsemen" or smth i dunno if thers SK or bomb that would probably count as somtehing else

oh and here s my useless flavor that doesnt help the game in any way yippee!!!

my x men name is skin. my human name is angel espinosa. I am a modified watcher. every night i can choose 3 targets, if any of my targets are

visited

i will learn which faction

visited

them.

such fun

Which is it

[borkjerfkin]

I'm glad all this is going on in the main thread where the people who have to eventually vote on things can see it

[borkjerfkin]

ULF initially claims he picks three targets, and if one of them is killed, he is notified of which faction kills them.
He then says he watches people to see who visits them. 3 Targets being watched, mind you.
bork questions him which it is.
He says he's a modified watcher, and is notified if anyone visits them, and that he just said shot because he was thinking about AP.
I point out that he claimed to "watch" 3 people last night and that none of them died, so he got no results, which means he was still operating under the "I only watch for shootings" mindset.

So are we to assume that of the 3 people he targeted Night 1, ONLY Nero was targeted, and it was ONLY by the Horseman faction? And then we have to assume again, since he's obviously still not clear about his role pm being shots vs. visits, that the 3 people he watched last night also were not targeted by a single faction?


Again... this is a Watcher that can view THREE people at once, one of which was assumed to be a tracker going into the Night Phase, and no one was targeted?

Finally, let's just discuss the ridiculousness of the role itself. What would a role like that even accomplish? You get to know the names of the factions in the game? At best, it can only confirm if someone was killed by town or scum, or any living person that was targeted by scum is almost guaranteed to be town, so it becomes a weakened Cop role too!

I really like this post.

Additionally, I hadn't been considering the other implications of what MS' role would do if it's the visiting version (which he has clarified that it is) but Toog is right in the sense that even though it's less powerful in some ways (doesn't show the exact person) it's MORE powerful in other ways (shows the faction, so later in the game at massclaim, when people are saying who they visited at other points in the game, you've essentially got a really easy way to pretty much definitively catch scum who had no reason to think they were caught, with no wiggle room for the person caught (I saw only a scum faction visit X -> you claimed visiting X -> you MUST be scum). And he gets 3 visits per night with no limited shot. This role can probably win games by itself and that's probably a good indication that he doesn't have it.

VOTE: ULF

My working hypothesis now would be that ULF is red scum that knew the faction name the whole time, red really did kill Nero, and he legitimately thought he got blue AP scum caught visiting mac n cheese, which he obviously had no problem pushing.

[borkjerfkin]

oh and bork, you of all people should know i am not dumb.... if me-scum wanted to kick AP's vig-butt all i had to do was to CC vig and that would be the end of it. he'd flip over and its much easier to invent a cover story for why my hypothetical kill got blocked and/or there are two vigs in the game, rather than this stinky 3 target watcher bullshit that i'd expect nobody to buy.

why would i make things difficult for myself? its not logical or rational. not like i am, but... always choose the simplest way right?

This explanation doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially since this is multiball meaning 1) you're going to think twice before making that kind of ballsy play as scum because you don't have that many members and 2) Even if you were scum all you knew is that AP wasn't on your team. You certainly didn't know he was telling the truth (in fact, if hypothetical-you-scum's team killed Nero, it was actually fairly likely he was NOT telling the truth FYPOV since you had no other way to explain a Majiffy kill other than the outside change at 2 Vigs), and counterclaiming him could've been disastrous for you if AP were scum and there was someone town out there preparing to CC him.

[borkjerfkin]

If you are blue scum none of the narratives really make sense except that [you are scum with the role you claimed you have], and

1) that just seems kind of a weird non-specific role for scum to have.
2) In this scenario, you know that the OTHER team shot Nero, not Mac and Cheese, which means you knew AP was town the whole time. It seems weird with the demeanor you had yesterday since it sounded like you actually had figured something out in your head, and I'm not seriously considering you for blue scum. If you're scum you're almost certainly on the non-Majiffy team.

[borkjerfkin]

once again, i am guilty of lynching AP town-vig. that is a mortal sin and i am not angry if i get lynched. i deserve to be lynched. mastin isnt here and probably wont ever come back, so yeah, just kill me. i am doing you all a favor

I'm just as guilty of this and I don't have this attitude (since, you know, lynching me is against my wincon no matter what I am)

So what's with that

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not terribly interested in unsubstantiated assertions with no analysis.

[borkjerfkin]

then you need to stop playing

Ain't that the fuckin' truth.

Anyway, opinion noted. I'm leaning that way anyway.

[borkjerfkin]

(And maybe you should read everything I post because I have no idea why you're arguing with me)

[borkjerfkin]

Tomorrow is the day we figure out my hood, I think.

[borkjerfkin]

ns what's your opinion on the veracity of ulf's role itself?

I find it fascinating that we have two really polarized camps on it.

[borkjerfkin]

His role, if he's telling the truth and I understand it properly, really just shortens the logic puzzle we go through with multi-ball.

I don't really know that I agree, because you get the scenario like:

Bob claims doctor during massclaim, and that he visited Alice on N1. In reality he is some sort of scum blocking/investigative/whatever.

Things that could happen:
1) Metal Sonic watched Alice who saw only Red Scum visit N1.
2) Metal Sonic watched Alice and saw nobody visit N1.
3) Metal Sonic watched Alice and saw town visit N1.

In all three scenarios you know Bob's alignment here.

Revealing things like that later in the game when he collects targets from like 5 days, that's up to 15 results that can both instantly condemn or clear people.

It's actually incredibly strong.

[borkjerfkin]

Like maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic but the point is that he gets an

alignment

result on anyone that visits three separate people.

If anyone even tangentially involved in those visits, either by claiming truthfully, claiming a target they didn't visit, etc. fucks up during massclaim AT ALL, they're made.

[borkjerfkin]

Yes BBMolla you've been a pinnacle of town since you replaced in.

p-edit: it's more like why DON'T you have anything to say here?

Hell you even asked if anyone cared what you had to say in here

I said yes

You then said nothing

why is that

[borkjerfkin]

Other than 'cloud 9 seems ungenuine'

why does cloud 9 seem ungenuine

[borkjerfkin]

You didn't tell me what you want to know.

and don't give me "READ ON EVERYONE" give me the important reads so that I can start small and finish with the big picture as we go

1) The onus is not on me to tell you what is pertinent to comment on.
2) You didn't even follow up on my response (which is the thing you do if you're still lost/overwhelmed with the number of pages), you just proceeded not to do anything

Anyway, in order of importance:
1) Reads on ULF and SKOT.
2) Reads on your own hood
3) Reads on MY hood (me, ETL, feu, eek)
4) Anything else

You can even limit to 1 and 2 today if you want.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork I need his clarification on if he can only see killing actions

He said no, sees all actions.

[borkjerfkin]

Cause I don't think the players in Cloud9 are bad, and they're scumreading me in a situation where there is no reason to. They've both seen my play, they know how I work, I don't think they genuinely could think I'm scum here.

I don't think AP is bad and he was scumreading me.

Also what the hell have you posted by which they should be obvtowning you?

[borkjerfkin]

Less that, more there is nothing I've posted that should make them lead a crusade on me.

I mean I feel like you're trying to hedge between "These guys know me well enough to know I'm town and they are scumreading me therefore are scum" (Which i MIGHT agree with FOR SOME PLAYERS if it were actually true) and when I confront you as to why they should be townreading you change the argument to

"I haven't done anything therefore I am not a viable push target" (which I don't agree with at all - are you just supposed to let scum lurk indefinitely?)

You can't be both
1) too obvtown for Cloud9 not to be scum for scumreading you for
2) too devoid of content for anyone to have anything on you

[borkjerfkin]

You are a town Buckshot Watcher. Each night, target 3 players. You will see who visited each player, however, you do not get to see which visits applied to which target. You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

This is WAY the fuck weaker than what MS claimed

[borkjerfkin]

i have done jack shit this whole game lol

i am a modified watcher that choose 3 targets and know the faction of whoever

shot

any of the target. scum town or whatever. i do not know the faction in the role pm. it only shows up as a result. so far we have majiffy which i forgot and the scumteam b is called "the horsemen" or smth i dunno if thers SK or bomb that would probably count as somtehing else

oh and here s my useless flavor that doesnt help the game in any way yippee!!!

my x men name is skin. my human name is angel espinosa. I am a modified watcher. every night i can choose 3 targets, if any of my targets are

visited

i will learn which faction

visited

them.

such fun

Which is it

the 2nd one

i was referring directly to my role pm

i only thought that it got shot to selectively corroborate my AP push

[borkjerfkin]

i wacthed nero, s4td, and [bork]. only nero got a result.

why did i track nero if i thought it was scum?

1) he claimed a pr

2) maybe x fire

3) i have 3 targets and i really had to grasp

mastin probably isnt comnig back and this game is torturous

i was against wincon and it was deeply saddening.

last night i wacthed bork, ika and ETL. none died; no result

[borkjerfkin]

wait wait wait

[borkjerfkin]

actually nvm can't confirm it either way.

[borkjerfkin]

I need to know if MS got "nobody visited" or "no result" for various things.

[borkjerfkin]

I support that wagon right now; if this shit doesn't become clearer I might end up moving there.

[borkjerfkin]

MS

[borkjerfkin]

Cloud Nine, Ultimate Life Form,

Rogue

, PeregrineV,

borkjerfkin

, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Toogeloo, Feu et Vol,

ika

AP wagon.

Bolded are my town reads or me

Others:
PV: Really Weak Town.
Cloud 9: Liked Nati early D1. Fade/General sparseness has tarnished the read and they really have not done a damn thing since even after suspicion left their slot. Which the more I think about it I'd not expect from scum.
Toog: Hated Toog on D1 because he basically mcfucked the main mechanic of the game for what I felt was no good reason. Was weak scum; posts today are actually a lot better.
Feu: Deferring read cause of *reasons*
SKOT: Literally hasn't done anything
ULF: I don't like the claim, the more I think about it. Otherwise was not going to push today.

In conclusion I don't know what the fuck is going on with your hood and am mostly PoEing it.

p-edit: Well that's nowhere near where I am. Really don't think Rogue is scum. NS butthurt about reads on him = town.

How are you so sure on ULF? You just said you couldn't read Metal Sonic.
I don't know how to read SKOT in whatever way you seem to be doing it.

[borkjerfkin]

NS butthurt about reads on him = town.

On cue.

[borkjerfkin]

I just looked at this post and said "Do I think scum SKOT would post this?"

The answer is no.

It reads as genuine to me, and if I'm right about SKOT as a player I don't think he'd think to even post it as scum.

He had another such moment early game with trying to reference ongoing games with Titus meta that looked town to me.

Then I got lukewarm about him.

[borkjerfkin]

You should claim if you think it would be pro-town to claim

[borkjerfkin]

We have a beloved princess claim from snowstorm too, just FYI. We don't have a lot of MLs left.

[borkjerfkin]

That kind of necessitates a scum lynch at this point

[borkjerfkin]

I am getting fucking nowhere with reads.

[borkjerfkin]

Molla can you indulge me on how you got to ulf town so quick?

[borkjerfkin]

Oh you answered and i missed it

[borkjerfkin]

Well

here's the deal.

I want to figure out scum in the alive people in ika's hood. That is my only objective for the day.

[borkjerfkin]

Really conflicted on ETL (surprise!). Her read progression on the hood is weird.
Like N2 she was ready to have my ass for the AP thing, and she just dropped it with no explanation to push on Eek who she had no semblance of scumread on before and wouldn't explain what happened.

She's guarading a 'did not visit' track result on a person that was sent to her by ? which would be good to know for posterity.

She did call AP correctly, and engaged with me a lot early game and had a lot of reads from the start.

Eek and Feu have pretty much also stopped producing content. I'm actually gut towning Eek as of now.

BBMolla if you've done anything you've sparked a bit of discussion and I really do not want that to die.

[borkjerfkin]

How does that translate into my being town

[borkjerfkin]

How did the squinting go?

On hold.

[borkjerfkin]

If we lynch another town PR I fucking quit.

Well:

I don't like how OK ULF is with his own lynch, considering the perceived strength of his role.
The other people we're considering are just not ever fucking posting anything, ergo I am having a hardtime putting it somewhere that ISN'T a claimed PR.

Besides: we can't just lynch VT claims all game and it's multiball: scum are probably gonna be PR heavy.

From the Outcast hood, my reads in order right now are probably:

Rogue (ns looks like town ns. Worried that they might be becoming a blind spot for me especially since Mala is pretty much not playing anymore)
PV (decently good track record this game with attempts to figure shit out)
Toog (D1 is going to permanently color my read of him)
Molla (this one could fucking go anywhere at a moment's notice due to small amount of content so far but he was passive as fuck until pressured)
C9 (meh, just not liking anything coming out of their mouth right now)

I guess pretty much every time I think I'm onto something, someone comes along with a readlist that has almost nothing in common with my own (like most recently BBMolla with SKOT/ULF town. Who is scum in that hood if SKOT and ULF are town? Ika?)

[borkjerfkin]

i wanted mass roleclaims in out QT

And I hope they shot you down because that's a really obviously shit idea.

Curious why, since this wasn't Majiffy's hood....

I feel like that was an attempt for towncred and not much else

[borkjerfkin]

I HAVE BEEN SAYING

RUBIKASSTRAY/BBMOLLA IS SCUM.

I know you have. I'm trying to make up my own mind about it.

[borkjerfkin]

PV I feel like you're just making arguments for Majiffy being scum. Do you actually have any method to determine if he is distancing from a teammate vs getting ready to push a mislynch?

[borkjerfkin]

Are you considering this from multiball perspective?

[borkjerfkin]

bork you understand a hood can also be all town?

players have already speced this shit heavly

So do you think it's 2-2-2-0 with your hood as all town?

Cause you've been saying want the rest of your hood dead

[borkjerfkin]

I have no idea why he scumread Cloud 9. I'm just saying that flipped scum do a lot of mixing up forced town/scumreads on both teammates/non-teammates. How are you planning to parse which of the two Cloud 9 is?

[borkjerfkin]

doenst matter what perspective its from

Uh it really fucking does and if you don't understand why then you probably don't need to be attempting to look for associatives.

All I'm getting from you is 'I'm bored, fuck my hood, let me hammer someone'

[borkjerfkin]

As I said in the hood, after AP's lynch, I have lost my verve for this game.

Oh then you might be town

Why did this of all things change ETL to town?

[borkjerfkin]

That reply was to my 360

[borkjerfkin]

I just want to make sure that people who are voting are doing it because they truly think ULF is scum, or because they think that probabilities are in their favor that lynching from that hood is more likely to hit scum.

Not gonna lie, this is partially it for me (although I am as statistically likely if I hunt in my own hood)

My niggles with his claim:

1) it is non standard in a game with no non standard roles flipped.
2) it is incredibly strong. Ballpark too strong.
3) he's been incredibly nonchalant/inconsistent about anything to do with it, including results
4) I don't know where the fuck else to put my vote and he is not doing anything but mild AtE and resignation

my hesitations:

1) he was very much crumbing that he knew something about AP's claim that was consistent with knowing that 'Red' killed Nero (could be because he is red and killed Nero)
2) he has not been explicitly caught in any lie about visits yet, which I would find unlikely in a role that visits three targets
3) why fakeclaim a role that visits 3 targets as scum; you're asking to get contradicted. Possibly subverted as scum by being blue scum with the role, but I just find this a real outside shot.

I don't know what else to say about it; I feel like a broken record with this shit.

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

Going to reread a bit tonight/tomorrow.

[borkjerfkin]

I just want to make sure that people who are voting are doing it because they truly think ULF is scum, or because they think that probabilities are in their favor that lynching from that hood is more likely to hit scum.

Ancillary question: you seemed pretty sure he was faking. What are you trying to figure out here?

[borkjerfkin]

MS have you received 'No result' or 'Nobody visited' on me the past two nights?

[borkjerfkin]

'No scum'

That means only town visited you

That also means nothing of interest

You are being unnecessarily fucking vague for a purpose that I can only assume is to stall.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

I want

ALL of your results.

Your EXACT results.

On everyone.

For both nights.

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

Whoever visited both ETL and me should definitely still be alive

[borkjerfkin]

Like this is extremely helpful, more than you were probably considering.

[borkjerfkin]

problem w/ snowstorm lynch is that being wrong is incredibly costly

[borkjerfkin]

OK:

I no longer want a Metal Sonic lynch today. We can sort him definitively during massclaim.
(and I'm not even considering ika in that hood for a lynch)

VOTE: SKOT

I think this is the most likely scum in this hood still. I don't agree with BBMolla's defense of him in #4993 (SKOT's post actually has a pretty big hedge in it that suggests that SKOT knows ika isn't scum on his team a la "You like narrowing things down for scum, or are you actually scum." The 'are you scum' part was deemphasized.)

I'll jump to BBMolla if this gains no steam as I don't really feel good about the reasoning he's put behind any read thus far.

[borkjerfkin]

ETL and I are somewhat favoring massclaim to clear some people

If we wait longer some of the town PRs that MS is saying visited might die

[borkjerfkin]

Knowing that he has town results on people changes the game for me

[borkjerfkin]

I am actually unsure why I'm getting so many visits

[borkjerfkin]

He did

[borkjerfkin]

Snowstorm I think you actually might be right in that claiming town visited is almost impossible to disprove without outing like everyone
!

[borkjerfkin]

didn't have to be a vig

[borkjerfkin]

Curious as to what town visired nero n1
Cause it obv wasn't protective

[borkjerfkin]

I know it was no one in my hood

[borkjerfkin]

not venmar or snowstorm
Not ika

[borkjerfkin]

Bbmolla said he didn't

[borkjerfkin]

C9, rogue, toog, skot, pv

Only possibilities I see

[borkjerfkin]

scum killed him

Ms said scum and town visited

[borkjerfkin]

that's what he has been claiming

[borkjerfkin]

Venmar not red scum prolly

[borkjerfkin]

Probably makes him straight up town due to which hood he is in

[borkjerfkin]

ooh

Depends on how actions are resolved

I got botg kids being a pain ill be back in a bit

[borkjerfkin]

C9, rogue, toog, skot, pv

Only possibilities I see

Here is what I want to have happen:

In the next posts for:

C9
Rogue
Toogeloo
SKOT
PV

I want a yes/no answer to the following question:

Did you visit Nero Cain on Night 1?

I don't care what you did or why you did it. Just a simple yes/no.

I think I've eliminated everyone else from being possible visitors.

[borkjerfkin]

Reasons for others not being viable:

ika - claimed VT. Cannot be a town visiting role.
Snowstorm - claimed Beloved Princess. Cannot be a town visiting role.

Me - straight up claiming that I did not visit Nero Cain N1.

Feu
ETL
Eek:
Based on everything I know in hood, none of you are possible. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Venmar - was legitimately puzzled as to what was going on with the result; Can deduce he did not visit Nero Cain.

Mac n Cheese - Flipped VT
S4TD - Flipped Non-visitor
AP - Visited Mac n Cheese
Majiffy - Not Town

[borkjerfkin]

Oh and

BBMolla - claimed did not visit Nero.

[borkjerfkin]

ooh

Depends on how actions are resolved

I got botg kids being a pain ill be back in a bit

Wait, no it doesn't depend on that, I was coming from the angle that it might fail cause the town that visited them would not be seen as visiting, but you're right - MS himself would fail his action entirely.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah scratch everything I said

VOTE: ULF

[borkjerfkin]

Becoming more sure of a thing is not wasting time

[borkjerfkin]

I'd like to but ika has decided that he's determined to fuck it up

[borkjerfkin]

We can try for a hood that isn't mine since mine is difficult to organize

p-edit: he's not breaking any rules. I can leave that kind of petulance to people like Jake From State Farm.

[borkjerfkin]

I'd be fine w/ that

UNVOTE:

My hood will sit this out I guess

[borkjerfkin]

Also is Nati posting in hood or did he just fucking ragequit?

[borkjerfkin]

she*

[borkjerfkin]

just wondering why she won't post in thread

[borkjerfkin]

cabd told me otherwise, so apologies if I have it wrong

[borkjerfkin]

On the morrow

[borkjerfkin]

C9, rogue, toog, skot, pv

Only possibilities I see

Here is what I want to have happen:

In the next posts for:

C9
Rogue
Toogeloo
SKOT
PV

I want a yes/no answer to the following question:

Did you visit Nero Cain on Night 1?

I don't care what you did or why you did it. Just a simple yes/no.

I think I've eliminated everyone else from being possible visitors.

I can't believe this thought even crossed your mind.

Thanks peanut gallery. God fucking forbid I'm concerned about being wrong.

[borkjerfkin]

Not buying it man

[borkjerfkin]

Not buying it man

Because retard-scum-me would construct such an elaborate and stupid looking lie right? If I haven't given up at the start of today yet I would be doing more to fight my own lynch but

More likely: you got sloppy thinking about the usual fact that no one could normally definitively cc you when you claimed town visited them

Except for here

[borkjerfkin]

And how you get to snowstorm scum for pointing that out makes no sense

[borkjerfkin]

Scum could cc me

See what I did there?

[borkjerfkin]

And I'm pretty sure I could claim a normal watcher AND nobody visited Mac n cheese if I was a calculating scum, then call ap a ninja. It's pretty easy. Then making up a story of why I watched Mac n cheese will be a matter of ease.

Which would have been strictly inferior to doing what you did, which was to claim something that is not contradicted by AP's claim even if he does flip town.

Doing what you just said would have gotten you autolynched today without nearly as much discussion as has been taking place. Possibly even yesterday instead of AP since we would have known for sure one of you was lying.

[borkjerfkin]

I pretend to be confused after ap was lynched and say that I got bus driven because of ika forcing me to claim PR

How's that

waht

[borkjerfkin]

I mean Venmar can speculate that all he wants but that doesn't mean that the conjecture has any basis in reality.

If I think he's scum I'm not going to advocate his lynch till LyLO when a mislynch will lose either way with 1 night or 2 unless I'm damn fucking sure about it

[borkjerfkin]

Metal sonic is town.

Molla needs rope

How the fuck are you willing to write off this claiming catastrophe as town

No qualms about the Molla read though

[borkjerfkin]

Yes you've correctly identified my position as 'I think the beloved princess claim is town no matter what he does'

because that is definitely what I just said

[borkjerfkin]

Simple, this reaction and self-voting is town

That's it? Just gutshotting the fuck out of the AtE in the face of some pretty botched night action claims?

[borkjerfkin]

If I were scum id avoid all this altogether

That is the first sensible thing you've said about the whole arrangement

[borkjerfkin]

Barely reading the game, throwing out really loosely reasoned reads and generally only responding to attacks on you is something I should be townreading?

[borkjerfkin]

Venmar is probably town:

MS, did you say that Nero was visited by town the night he died.

Oh, is The Horsemen scum or something.

This is a reaction to

Night 1
Nero was visited by The Horsemen, Town

Bork was visited by Town

s4td was visited by Town

Where Venmar clearly doesn't understand that MS is saying that Nero was visited by the horsemen faction AND town, not someone called the horsem(a)n who is town.

Red scum is not making that error as they know full well what 'The Horsemen' is, so you have to be willing to entertain Venmar being blue scum w/ Majiffy in the same hood and with all the mutual buddying they did all game which is unlikely for me.

[borkjerfkin]

This is a thing I should know about or empathize with because?

[borkjerfkin]

Again, why should I be townreading you?

Cause you're doing this thing again where you're one second incredulous that I'm not and the next second backing off on that argument in saying that you're just frustrated about the whole endeavor

If you expect me to use meta why aren't you linking me games?

(I think I played with you once like two years ago)

p-edit: If you would look at that in context, you'd see I'm trying to test the veracity of the claim that someone town (that obviously wasn't protective since Nero died) visited Nero on N1.

[borkjerfkin]

It's not a fucking wonder AP and Titus are dead, scum have complete control over this game and can do whatever the fuck they want and lynch whoever the fuck they want.

And then people keep following the same people to lynch town the next day and next

WHY AREN'T WE LYNCHING CLOUD9? OR VOL? OR ETL? OR SS? OR PV?

WHY

No dude this is not how this is gonna fucking work.

People's reads are fucking all over the place this game and they're locked into preconceptions about who is scum (a la Venmar and shit) and I can't tell who the obstinate/bored town are and who is faking it

So if you want to make an attempt to work with me, then you do that and we figure the game out instead of just coming in here half cocked once every few days, throwing some unjustified reads around and bailing

Cause I can't fucking deal with that when everyone is saying a different thing.

[borkjerfkin]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=39196

Here look at that dood

I actually loosely followed this as the backup mod (what the fuck PV)

brb a few son just woke up

[borkjerfkin]

^^^^like what the fuck, who thinks this is scum

Apparently about half of the game:

Toog
Venmar
Snowstorm
SKOT
Rogue
Me, as of the night action switcheroo re: speaker for the dead
Feu? (until his last post which makes me have no idea what's going on w/ him)
ika?

Either way, there are like huge fucking polarized opinions (on the other side we have you, ETL, C9, possibly others I'm forgetting but hey two of your scumreads) on this and nobody but me seems to be attempting to actually fucking figure it out. Why the fuck is that?

[borkjerfkin]

nobody but me seems to be attempting to actually fucking figure it out.

Actually that isn't true - I think snowstorm is doing this too.

But Metal called him caught scum for a reaction to something (calling out Metal lying about seeing town visit S4TD) that he hasn't adequately explained at all

[borkjerfkin]

And none of the people left who could have visited Nero N1 are even remotely attempting to defend his claim

So what the fuck gives here?

[borkjerfkin]

I cannot even come close to parsing what the fuck you're trying to say here

[borkjerfkin]

If 'Hey I need to know if a person visited Nero in order to catch a possible scum' is rolefishing

THEN GUESS I'M A FUCKING ROLEFISHER

[borkjerfkin]

And none of the people left who could have visited Nero N1 are even remotely attempting to defend his claim

So what the fuck gives here?

inb4 no one pays any attention to this and it gets buried

[borkjerfkin]

point is: I have PoEd the possibilities where I do not believe such a person exists

[borkjerfkin]

No I guess I don't see that

[borkjerfkin]

I am inclined to let the people who say he is obvious scum (but won't say why) fight it out with the people who think he is obvious town (but won't say why)

because I am nearing the end of my rope w/ this shit

[borkjerfkin]

lets say you're right and im scum. i could get one of my goon buddies to answer your question for me and claim to visit nero. so what exactly does that accomplish?

because the minute he flipped scum you'd be next

[borkjerfkin]

I don't understand what you're saying again

[borkjerfkin]

Said teammate will not flip scum before I flip scum, because in the current condition that I am in, all logic points towards me dying before he does.

I'm not sure I agree with this premise, considering 1) multiball and 2) the lack of specific circumstances behind said goon's fakeclaim

[borkjerfkin]

Also having to make said scumteam make that pretty big decision under pressure is inherently useful as it allows more room for them fucking up the whole sequence

[borkjerfkin]

Which then only leads to the possibility that he gets nightkilled first.

What I was getting at partially, yes.

I'm not sure how there is a lack of specific circumstances behind said goon's fakeclaim, when you are loudly appealing for said person to come out and claim to have visited Nero.

Well considering that I don't actually know what is going on I think that statement is pretty fair.

But seriously there is value in that you're developing an associative relationship that you don't necessarily want to have to deal with.

Other shit happens in games like scumhunting and other night actions that can change the course of opinion about a player and it's unfair to say that that associative has no value because of some really fuzzy reason as the assertion that your alleged buddy looks townier than you at this point in time and as such will never be caught in any way that gives town info that leads to your lynch; I think that's naive.

This conversation has become too hypothetical (to the point where I'm even having trouble following it) to provide any real value to anyone so that's probably all I have to say about this.

[borkjerfkin]

Actually that's probably all I have in the tank tonight regardless

I look forward to this not being any less murky in the morning on good ol' deadline day

[borkjerfkin]

So what's new?

Inertia has set in on Metal Sonic thing is what's new and nobody really wants to talk about the facts.

In fact, people don't really seem to care that people who mutually scumread each other (BBMolla vs ETL, BBMolla vs C9) are aligning on an MS townread.

That's what's new.

Oh also there's a deadline today. So that's fun too.

[borkjerfkin]

I can't believe this thought even crossed your mind.

I hate this fucking post so much every time I read it.

Why the fuck do you not care about the people hard defending MS and go after the one person who is trying to shine a light on the scenario?

[borkjerfkin]

Have you not read what went on yesterday?

[borkjerfkin]

He at first claimed that town visited S4TD on N1

When snowstorm pointed out that was impossible, he changed the story (And called snowstorm scum for pointing it out which is still ???)

[borkjerfkin]

And he's claimed a number of other visits that don't appear like they'll ever be proven either way.

but I'm apparently rolefishing (this isn't addressed to you) when I try to find out what actually went on

[borkjerfkin]

So you're telling me that SftD flipped commuter N2, ULF claims that he not only targeted them N1, but that he received a result, despite this flip, and he is scum who did not notice/check the death scenes at the start of the day.

I am conjecturing that he legitimately forgot what claiming a result on s4td would mean when he did it after the fact, yes, coupled with the fact that he really had no way of knowing that snowstorm could produce pretty compelling evidence that s4td actually commuted N1. Unless you're telling me he's incapable of being sloppy.

Otherwise what is he trying to accomplish here by initially lying about the S4TD result? Who is going to be 'caught' by the fact that he actually got no result when he claimed he had one? Anyone who actually visited S4TD N1 and isn't an investigative role isn't going to know that S4TD commuted but still would have to responsibly claim they visited.

I can't parse your last sentence. Please rephrase.

[borkjerfkin]

VC Please

[borkjerfkin]

I have never been so mired in paranoia of pretty much everyone as I am this game.

We'll do it your way today ETL. We're out of time and the impedance level of the ULF lynch is such that I see compromise as the most viable option here. I guess MS will keep for a night as long as we please fucking revisit this further on in the game.

VOTE: BBMolla

Claim now.

[borkjerfkin]

1) i was perfectly aware that s4td was a commuter and wanted to see which scumboy would notice, because they would pay attention to such things. Of all people, snowstorm was the one who pointed it out, coincidently the major suspect for killing s4td last night.

This logic makes no fucking sense

[borkjerfkin]

Anyway, I know MS can be sloppy. That's not my point. My point is the magnitude of confidence here. One is a direct statement of results from a person, another is a second-hand account of unprovable dialogue in a hidden area about something that may or may not have happened.

One is a direct statement of results from a person that he recanted and changed when the 'second-hand unprovable dialogue' suddenly became a lot more credible

[borkjerfkin]

Unless you think Venmar is going to come in here and say that everything snowstorm said in 5204 is bullshit

[borkjerfkin]

And yeah if you think MS is town then you 100% have to buy into Multiball

[borkjerfkin]

anyone who is not voting for the love of fuck put it somewhere

[borkjerfkin]

Why do I have a feeling we're heading for an NL?

[borkjerfkin]

etl he CHANGED his result

Not clarified, not restated

CHANGED

[borkjerfkin]

Night 1
Nero was visited by The Horsemen, Town

Bork was visited by Town

s4td was visited by Town

Night 2
Bork was visited by Town

ETL was visited by Town

Ika received No Result

VOTE: snowstorm

Confirmed scum who killed s4td

If you guys don't believe me cause of my ap lynch blahblah I can self vote to give achievements to my hood

I lied about town visiting s4td.

I just wanted to see which scumbutt pointed it out

It's called a gambit and I have caught scum

I think

Once again, how is this designed to catch scum

[borkjerfkin]

Because Metal's claim is so obviously bullshit, and you decide that "just to be safe" you want to out a power role.

If it's so obviously bullshit then explain to me your lack of umbrage at like the 4 or 5 people that say that it isn't

[borkjerfkin]

Here's a list of people that think that:

ETL
BBMolla
PV
Cloud 9

I'll wait

[borkjerfkin]

The distinction between B) and [A) or C)] is pretty significant, yeah?

p-edit: rad.