X-Men: Age of Apocalypse (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

I'm starting to hit my mid-day1 blues.

[borkjerfkin]

? bork

Where I'm starting to doubt my reads and in thread communication is devolving into a couple parallel tunnels and I'm gonna try to reset.

[borkjerfkin]

"Titus is not pushing things well" - What does that mean? How is that a scum tell?
"is constantly just screaming I am Town listen to me" - Again, how is this a scum tell?
"their push on Venmar makes no sense what so ever" - Since when is making no sense a sign of scum?
What's all that about trolling?
And that last paragraph, what? You're arguing that Titus tunneling on you but not being convinced/not voting you is a scum tell? Why would she do that as scum? I mean, why would she tunnel on you as scum if she had no intention to mislynch you?

1. Titus seems to believe as town they are a godsend. If this were to be true then their logic would be easy to follow. It is not easy to follow here. They find the littlest things and just harp on the relentlessly. This is a scum tell because scum have to do everything they can to get a mislynch and they have to find the littlest things to push them with.

2. This is a scum tell because most of their posts are just that. Screaming that they are town and should be listened too. It doesn't come off as genuine town frustration but scum frustration that they can't get a single person to listen to the convuluted reasons to scum-read people. They also can't back down though because that would be a scum claim because apparently Town Titus tunnels people to death.

3.There should at least be some sort of followable logic in their push on Venmar but I don't see it. I classify their push their just like the push on Marquis based on nothing but tells that aren't real.

4. Titus thinks that town Marquis should troll in every game or else they are scum. They don't care the situation or the circumstances they just want Marquis to troll.

5. Why would town scream and shout about how scum I am but yet not vote me? It is Titus being able to later come back to once again push my mislynch. They know they won't get it today so they have to reserve it for later. The tunneling part goes back to the fact that Town Titus apparently tunnels people so Titus has to continue to tunnel me or else they would no longer look town to people, in their own eyes.

-Beast

P-edit:

How is titus town?

Thank you for following up and I really like this post as far as reinforcing my townread on you, especially seeing where you're head is at with points #1 and #3 - Titus is making some points that I think are really pants on head. I think #4 is also contributing to a bunk read on you guys from her.

I just don't know if I think that's scummy or not overall or just really out of touch in certain spots. I think the confidence, playing mediator to her town reads, and trying to generally drive the game is what's swinging me the other way.

[borkjerfkin]

I was fucking raging irl, doesn't mean I'll rage on thread.

I didn't expect the game would be like this, I'm a bit confused about everything. I'm not happy with my play, as I know I'm not doing anything useful.

I'll put a readlist up soon if it's any good

@mollie bork and jiffy

What do you guys think of the first line? I figured newbtown called out on a "scumslip" would be more panicky but he sounded calm in the QT and now he said he was raging irl? I don't know if I buy it

pedit-

fair enough

What mollie said basically - I have no frame of reference for this.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork can you get your vote onto a snowstorm wagon or tell me and majiffy why it's a bad wagon

I don't know what to say to this other than what I said to Jiffy - I see exactly one marginally questionable thing from him. He's not a shining beacon of town for me, but I do feel like he's at least trying to solve the game with his early game read progression (And the manner in which he was conservative about giving them out)

What is warranting your shift to him?

[borkjerfkin]

I'll assume that was to feu and not me.

Still, I can't get behind your feu read and you have provided no real meta to backup a read that is essentially entirely meta by your own admission.

[borkjerfkin]

Really, you can't follow lynching people who "randomly" voted the neighborhood that has the most powerful ability and then provide no content or utlility as a scumread? Die scumbuddy.

I don't like this point either (and I never have) because you can't even begin to assign probabilities to this (other than the really nebulous 'venmar is not a careless player' thing that doesn't encompass every action he might take on anything ever).

Temper that by the fact that I can see him voting me at the beginning because I'm probably one of the people in the thread he's more familiar with.

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

Took vote is stale and doesn't seem like it's happening today. I just don't want people to forget later on that there was very real potential scum motivation in doing what he did, despite why he claimed he did it.

[borkjerfkin]

As for the Venmar point, it's never about probabilities. He's helping scum and not doing anything to help out town. People have asked me to try to reach out to Venmar, so I've asked him for reads for content. I get shitted on. He knows by now that I need content or I will scumread. Utility is the best way to scumhunt. It's also how you scumhunt me. Am I attempting to help out the town? He's digging his own grave. Maybe it will take me dying or somehow magically getting a cop ability (remote chance). I've seen Venmar scum. I trained Venmar scum. He's scum. I don't give a shit as to whether you agree with me when I'm alive. I care if you listen when I'm dead because I'm not living that long in this game.

I forgot if I asked you this or not, but have you read Venmar in Xenosaga?

Because I am seeing a lot of parallels in how he handled himself here vs. there.

[borkjerfkin]

Like he did literally nothing but tunnel metal sonic pretty much all game and pretty much told anyone that asked him to do anything else to kiss off

[borkjerfkin]

Let's suppose for a second I am wrong on Venmar (I'm not). There I was jailkept for being wrong on a townie who got lynched. No one died. I highlighted Marquis was the only scum who would do such a kill and that I was familiar because of Newbie 1396. They understandably didn't believe me. I got lynched. Then, the jailkeeper jailed Marquis. He was lynched. We won.

Trust me. I know Marquis's scum game and I'd rather not be lynched again to prove it but if that's what it takes.

I don't really see what this has to do with anything other than 'you have been right about things before'

[borkjerfkin]

the only thing metalmastin has done is talk about how he's going to wreck da scumz and then proceed to not do any wrecking of da scumz whatsoever

which is basically what he did early on in xenogears

Yeah he's not on my nice list but he's a weak scum read at most and might even just be null. He's also buddying me but I'd expect him to do that in any game.

I kinda feel about him like I felt about him in walking dead, only people were pushing him way harder there so I felt like I was defending him when I was really just denouncing scumreads on him.

[borkjerfkin]

If you flip town or the shot is fake I'm gonna take a look at the meta games, but I am still skeptical about the 'always trolls as town thing' as a blanket statement that is going to fit him to a T.
People are rarely that black and white.

[borkjerfkin]

Oh I had another thing I wanted to ask about:

Do you still think eek & feu are buddies considering the switch from eek from you onto feu as his most likely target in the hood? I still just don't understand the catalyst for that switch in opinion on you by eek.

[borkjerfkin]

Like if it's distancing I don't see why he'd suddenly pick now to do it. Feu was under no more pressure than before.

[borkjerfkin]

Me and majiffy don't agree on a scumread and neither of us minds if snowstorm flips

Well then the only objection I have is a weak townread (and maybe that he's a somewhat low info lynch but that's becoming less true)

[borkjerfkin]

They all collectively only talk about me.

This is probably a great indication that they aren't all scum.

[borkjerfkin]

Can you do a list like the one me and majiffy had please?

want dead

don't wanted dead

etc

Iso me from my earlier response to muffin and take the last group as want dead.

But really I want some more interactions in my own neighborhood because something is wrong.

[borkjerfkin]

Nati AtE'd in our neighborhood so I feel like a dick for suspecting him but I still do and I don't really know what to do about that.

I guess give him a chance to get his head in it? What did he say?

He ATEd like fuck in Tales of You (muffin did too if I recall) and I thought it was really town even though I didn't say that at the time cause F-16 and Desp decided it was the opposite and who was I to argue

[borkjerfkin]

Waiting on a hydra head is good, especially one as useful as Mastina.

I am entirely in favor of this, as well.

[borkjerfkin]

in what way?

cos I am not seeing what you are seeing

Pretty much what I said to Titus: he harped on Metal Sonic the whole time and refused to coorperate with people and got really pissy (not just 'go away' pissy but actually mad) when suspected

[borkjerfkin]

Why are you in favor of wanting MS to wait to claim until Mastin gets here?

Cause I'm not sure about the slot and mastin's easier to read than ms?

[borkjerfkin]

"I'll claim but I need to wait on Mastin"

Yeah I wasn't even really reacting to that, I just want mastin around for clarity on the slot.

[borkjerfkin]

bork

or whoever is in that neighbourhood

if you guys were planning stuff pregame, did no one mention that objectives 3/4 were only achieved via scum lynch?

I did too, which is why I amended my initial position to trying to make as much of an informed decision within 24 hours as possible rather than a pure policy lynch as I thought about it more. I also thought that taking control of the game and getting #1 and #5 really really fast would be a pretty good baseline even if we didn't manage to hit scum D1 (which, let's face it, happens quite a lot and I wish people wouldn't act like we have a guaranteed scum lynch today, because if we don't hit scum we're in literal nowheresville with objectives and that might not matter to some people but I would like to win the game)

p-edit: If this is about eek, unsure. The way he was going forward with the plan sounded as if he genuinely thought something different was going to happen, but it's also plausible that he just hoped no one would correct him.

[borkjerfkin]

this is about feu et vol and how you got a town read on them pregame if they were discussing the plan with you and missed it

i don't care about eek

I'd argue eek is considerably more relevant in that regard considering he was the one pushing the lynch on himself on the ostensible hope we'd get #3 and #4.

My getting a townread on feu early game didn't have really anything to do with whether or not they knew how the objectives worked, so I don't really understand what you're getting at.

[borkjerfkin]

paraphrasing feu et vol from the neighborhood, post #198:

he 'thought that eek knew what he was talking about and assumed he had it correct'

I'm gonna comb the early stuff for any interactions with me or Titus because we both did have it right from an early point.

[borkjerfkin]

There isn't anything from either feu or eek pre-game that has any indication that they understood or misunderstood the objectives #3 and #4.

Pregame was actually almost entirely Brian and me until Titus joined in later, but the stuff feu did say about giving metal sonic a chance pinged me in a good way since he's generally an easy target (although I made the addendum that if MS flipped scum I'd be back to it)

[borkjerfkin]

also eek is town and feu et vol isn't, so there's that, too, for why it's more relevant

I am not aligned here; I've liked feu in thread (and have explained why recently). There is some weird shit happening in the hood involving read progressions but it isn't coming from feu. He's being tunnely as shit, but I won't call him scum for that.

p-edit: Yeah, decently so.

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie, meet me halfway here. I've explained them as well as I can for their spot as a Tier 2 townread of mine.

What do you specifically not like about them?

[borkjerfkin]

Like I searched for feu in your ISO and 1718 was the first hit I got.

[borkjerfkin]

you're asking what specifically i don't like about them when it's nothing specific, it's their entire body of work. there is no town in it. neither marquis or beast have done ANYTHING this game apart from call titus scum and coast on zero content

And it's possible I fucked up and you're right, but unilaterally deathtunneling a single player is not something I feel that I exclusively see from scum or can empirically say I see more often from scum.

If I knew Titus' alignment then maybe I could make a better judgment about it, but even that would need a few rereads. I asked them to explain themselves and they did at a point in the game that you haven't gotten to yet.

I need to go to bed; if you need any other neighborhood info I can get it to you in the morning.

[borkjerfkin]

I dont have a lot of time tonight or tomm but I'm really at a loss as to how to proceed atm.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Snowstorm

Mostly for solidarity, but here's the one germane thing I want to discuss about him:

What I mentioned earlier is still something worth talking about:

Only thing that pings me is 1083-1116-1120 re:toogeloo looks at least like it could be a fabricated conclusion that he planned to arrive at considering nothing Toog did between those posts should've changed his mind.

Here is the progression for reference:

Spoiler:

Would scum Loo believe he could just do what he did and get away with it? It was a really bold move.

What could justify the risk he's taking? Maybe Eek or Titus being scum? It would still be a bold move and it would only switch attentions from one of his partners to him. So, I think he'd only do this if they really didn't want us to get one of the abilities... The more I think about this the harder I find it to believe that Loo's actions were scum motivated.

VOTE: Cloud Nine.

The gamestate in and of itself has allowed people to coast and just discuss abilities. It's near impossible to develop reads on anyone, especially those that were in the two Neighborhoods that weren't going to get voted on. You guys essentially gave everyone in those hoods a free pass to agree, disagree, go absent, etc.

I've been sitting here sifting through isos and most all of them are just discussion about setup and how best to get abilities. Hell, most of the lynch discussions have been revolving around Policy Lynching instead of picking scum. Even Eek's wagon was largely considered a Policy Lynch.

Now that Sonic/Mastina are free to be voted, you should be happy Nero. You've been harping about them being scum all game day.

The only think that bothers me with you is that you had no problem with the gamestate when you first posted. You had no problem with focusing only in half of the players and working towards fulfilling the objectives. So this change of mind comes of as unnatural.

Titus isn't helping town at all. She's either scum with bad logic or town with bad logic that's cluttering up this thread so I say utility lynch her.

But Toog/ULF/SOD are all really scummy too. and Rouge is p scummy me thinks but that could just be NS being wrong as shit.

So lets talk about Toog/speaker and ULF. What are your reads there?

Titus is town. Loo is town. Rogue is TBD, so is ULF.

As for Speaker, I was starting to really like them up until they started their anti-Aronis campaign out of nowhere. I'm still not sure what to make of it.

Not only has Toog pretty much done nothing in that span to warrant the hard townread (especially after 1121 which doesn't really jive with how sure he is that toog is town cause that should be a pretty legitimate concern), but I can't empathize with a hard townread of Toog AT ALL resulting from vote-all-the-neighborhoods-gate; once again, the possibility of setting the objectives back under the guise of 'scumhunting more' and 'putting a higher % of scum in the lynch pool' is still a pretty obvious potential scum motivation that people are just dismissing out of hand because ????

Especially because toog hasn't exactly come out and flexed a whole lot of scumhunting chops since he did that whole thing (he's made a few information relaying posts I guess). If toog came in and actually started scumhunting with a wide breadth as a result of his vote thing, that's when you can make the argument he's town for doing it.

[borkjerfkin]

It doesn't matter to me what Toog has done since the fuck up, it matters to me why he did it in the first place.

I'm just really surprised that you're just super-oversimplifying the obvious WIFOM aspect of what you're talking about in 1116-1120, especially where there are supplemental things like 1121 that should be murking up the read for you and no real evidence that 'why he did it in the first place' is actually a thing that he cares about.

As far as your own question about what is the scum motivation: you can't deny that what he did had a tangible anti-town component and by definition creates potential scum motivation, even if obviously can't be proven one way or the other.

[borkjerfkin]

I am SUPER surprised that cloud 9 isn't getting ran up.

I want Nati to come back to the thread.

He had a similar(ish) meltdown in Tales of You but that contained both more 1) anger and 2) content than I've seen this game from him and I want to know why, considering his not being the leading wagon here.

[borkjerfkin]

So why Storm and not Titus? They are both calling Toog town for what he did. You think scumstorm is sheeping towntitus?

I am really, really conflicted about Titus (as I've said) and want to vote with Majiffy and Rogue here, who I both think are town.

[borkjerfkin]

You think scumstorm is sheeping towntitus?

Also considering 1109 (Titus) is both before and very close to 1116, 1120 (Snowstorm) that actually isn't implausible.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't understand why the hell you're singling me out for that or that every interaction you're having with me is some kind of being irritated.

[borkjerfkin]

And yeah I know it's muffin this time.

[borkjerfkin]

You responded to a post that I made and said 'stop posting'. How am I supposed to interpret that exactly?

You're usually not this much of a fucking asshole and I'm really close to not wanting to play with you again.

[borkjerfkin]

How about this, either attempt not to be a sociopath when you talk to me, or have any inquiries toward my slot go through Mollie for the rest of the game.

That's all I have to say to you.

[borkjerfkin]

I have lots and lots of experience with muffin. I know exactly how he is.

I'm leaning town on Nero; I understand and sympathsize the desire of wanting to cull players that are doing blatantly anti-town things and calling people out for calling those things towntells, which has kind of been his MO the whole game.

Do you think he's scum?

[borkjerfkin]

Am I the only one here who doesn't have anger management issues?

Quite possibly.

[borkjerfkin]

Examples?

[borkjerfkin]

His whole set of exchanges with Titus have been really queer.

On a surface level I didn't like this at first either, but I think he feels it would be pro-town to have Titus out of the game even if she flips town and I think the interactions make sense from that viewpoint.

[borkjerfkin]

hey bork, snow flips scum? do we lynch toog or is this scum defending town?

This game is taxing enough without trying to form associative tells pre-flip

[borkjerfkin]

Can we just lynch Feu? Nero's vote is blantantly survivalistic and I could see voting there too if we won't lynch Venmar.

Nero is under no pressure I don't get this

[borkjerfkin]

This is like the game of bizarro interactions fuck if I know what's going on

[borkjerfkin]

All the scum were on my wagons

Empirically, no, they probably aren't. That is generally not how scum play this game.

[borkjerfkin]

Feu, Nero and Venmar are definitely scum.

I still think you're dead wrong on Venmar.

[borkjerfkin]

@mollie: you'll have my undivided attention this evening (and I read your earlier wall - I most definitely do want to work with you)

I'm about to be hosting a cookout for my work friends that's gonna go all day.

[borkjerfkin]

i drank

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Speaker

You want a 1v1, we can 1v1.

I'm still skimming but there is like a 0% chance I'm joining this.

[borkjerfkin]

I have been waiting for you. muffina and I are ironing out some reads still. he is working on a big long post but he is still 15 pages behind in reading everything more thoroughly.

Titus was hitting a lot of gut town notes early on even though I hate pretty much all her reads (like Venmar is one of my strongest townreads). I don't think the arrogance and over-the-top-ness really reads scum to me. I'd like to probably not lynch her today.

Mac and cheese has not done anything useful to the point where I actually forgot them in my reads list. Don't really care if they die but I wouldn't take it to the bank.

Feu read was town early and I guess is deteriorating due to lack of engagement. What's overtly scummy from him?

I'd probably take town Rogue to the bank at this point, yeah, but honestly it should be incredibly apparent lategame what alignment notscience is.

Talk to me about your Majiffy read.

[borkjerfkin]

honestly it should be incredibly apparent lategame what alignment notscience is.

It should be incredibly apparent now

Like holy shit my post count this game already beats my post count of like every scumgame I've had except maybe fea

Yeah I'm super duper not worried about you guys.

@metal sonic: she used the same verbage for a thing one time. You can't look at that in a bubble.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think mollie would be posting these 'the game is in meltdown' posts like she is if she were scum. She's one of the few people I know who plays from that kind of 'overall thread health' angle and I've only seen her do it when she's town.

If people are shitposting (and they are) and she's scum I don't see her trying to curtail it in the manner in which she's doing it.

As for muffin he can probably fake all the attitude stuff I guess but I don't think that's what's happening here.

[borkjerfkin]

what about venmar

[borkjerfkin]

I have been waiting for you. muffina and I are ironing out some reads still. he is working on a big long post but he is still 15 pages behind in reading everything more thoroughly.

Titus was hitting a lot of gut town notes early on even though I hate pretty much all her reads (like Venmar is one of my strongest townreads). I don't think the arrogance and over-the-top-ness really reads scum to me. I'd like to probably not lynch her today.

Mac and cheese has not done anything useful to the point where I actually forgot them in my reads list. Don't really care if they die but I wouldn't take it to the bank.

Feu read was town early and I guess is deteriorating due to lack of engagement. What's overtly scummy from him?

I'd probably take town Rogue to the bank at this point, yeah, but honestly it should be incredibly apparent lategame what alignment notscience is.

Talk to me about your Majiffy read.

I just read feu's wall post and I think they're town again; they're hitting a lot of things I'm having the same thoughts about.

[borkjerfkin]

feu's summarization of the titus/eek thing in particular comes from a town mindset.

I still think there is probably one scum in eek/titus just due to the really sticky (aka devoid of paranoia) attitude changes they had about each other.

p-edit: didn't read anything you wrote yet.

[borkjerfkin]

bork is being bork. When I played against him in FakeGod's Touhou Upick2 I actually found it rather annoying that he was playing a sit-back-and-make-observations style of play mostly because the observations were, for the most part, accurate and it's really hard to do anything about someone who plays like that when you're scum and he's not giving you room. He's doing the same thing here and I've either agreed with the conclusions he came to or at least understood and followed the thought process where I wasn't in agreement. I really wasn't trying to be abrasive to him before he started responding to me like I was intentionally being a dick. I think what I said about the way he was treating the objectives was true and it is one major thing I fundamentally disagree with him about (even though he acknowledged it was a high risk high reward thing, I just don't see the logic in ignoring a town read on someone to pursue objectives). And I really wasn't directing the stop posting comment at him, it's just that he was the one who mentioned he wanted Nati to post and I know better than anyone that Nati most likely hasn't read shit this game because of the number of posts in this game in such a short period of time. But I've decided to stop even interacting with him because I know I can be overly hostile and mollie wants to work with him so she can talk to him instead. It's kind of funny that Notty thinks this has anything to do with anything outside of a clash of personalities, but hey, that is why Notty is best treated like he isn't even in the game.

I have a different view of our exchance but I will actually just apologize for going off the handle if it means we can actually have a working relationship this game

[borkjerfkin]

Also I was thinking it's best to lynch from within the neighbourhoods that don't have the sensor/kill-stop abilities so that they can potentially achieve 1-2 objectives today, but I don't remember which neighbourhoods those were and who was / wasn't in them

I'm the sensor hood w/ eek, titus, brian, feu

[borkjerfkin]

In a meeting. ill be a few.

[borkjerfkin]

any insight into titus burying the game?

I saw your earlier thing about ffery (really it was bulder iirc) doing this on D1 in xenoblade but ultimately I think this comes down to playstyle: Titus generally leads post counts in every game I've seen from her.

Titus isn't a bad utility lynch, I just am not terribly confident which way she's gonna flip. /venmarcat

She may very well flip town, but I can't follow pretty much any of her reasons for anything, has interactions with just about every slot, and has a billion or so posts, so if she flips before D3 I am not going to be broken up about it.

[borkjerfkin]

I was going to move back to SnowStorm. Then Muffin made that giant shitwall of lies. My vote stays until they're dead. Period.

What was lies

[borkjerfkin]

Ugh.

I probably don't have any more time for this game until tonight.

Jiffy I've seen so many posts this game that register as town mollie and I don't endorse your push.

[borkjerfkin]

I was just about to post something close to what Majiffy posted, but what's even more relevant is that in order for this to be some kind of slip they'd have to be talking about this in the scum QT as we speak and feu needs some motivation to be bitching about it to me in the neighborhood QT (which I don't see at all, his posts are asking me for my opinion and not trying to just feel me to see if I'm reading her a certain way)

Like unless you think he's trying to play me specifically (someone who knows mollie considerably better than he does) I don't see where you're going with this at all.

p-edit: muffin has literally been joke signing with ~mollie since Monday.

[borkjerfkin]

This might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't fucking like this at all. That's a horrible case and you should fucking see that Jiffy.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Titus

[borkjerfkin]

The specific quote means fucking nothing. Mollie and muffin have been fucking around with signing posts wrong for half the fucking game.

[borkjerfkin]

The amount of handwaving in 2641 is just horrendous.

[borkjerfkin]

yes majiffy explain it

[borkjerfkin]

Bork feu acknowledges the hydras trolling at 2 am. 8 hrs later they make a comment that refers to them having had an issue with it earlier. Why wait?

Who the fuck cares why? Maybe they had something else to do/it wasn't in the forefront of their mind/LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and they thought about it in the fucking shower later for all I know.

People should not be held to putting everything on paper as soon as it strikes them. Like what possible scum motivation are you attributing to this which culminates in a post ASKING ME WHAT I THINK AND LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE

[borkjerfkin]

What are you not understanding about my post? Like I said, the post Titus is referencing is specifically a question/engagement addressed to me about my read.

And it's basically frustration that they can't figure out what is coming from mollie/muffin and asking me how I'm so sure both of who is who (usually pretty easy when it's mollie, I mistook a muffin post for mollie I think once though) and that they're town because if they were town why do the trolling thing at all.

I see no problem with this stance, but considering muffin pulled this exact same schtick in Tales of You it's not even contributing to an inkling of a scumread on them from me.

[borkjerfkin]

I am not voting Feu.

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie is avoiding doing anything protown.

I don't agree with this at all.

[borkjerfkin]

So we're not lynching snowstorm and anyone still on him and hop right the hell off. He can be vigged later if necessary but that's going to depend on the gamestate at any given time.

What are other people waiting on? Like even if you're skeptical about snowstorm you have to agree that the best way to get rid of him is to vig him.

[borkjerfkin]

Here's the answer to whether you want to test it with a lynch:

Spoiler:

you don't

[borkjerfkin]

Like claiming Beloved Princess is basically just fucking saying "I am an acceptable vig target at any point in the game"

p-edit: what the fuck does that have to do with anything?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not going to participate in this theory-dickwagging session. You have absolutely no fucking idea how Desp planned out the game or what hoops he did or did not jump through to fit flavor to roles and neighborhoods.

[borkjerfkin]

Beast It's age of apocalypse unless you think it's multiball the scum is 95% going to be Apocalypse and co

This is most likely true, but it doesn't matter because fakeclaims so...?

[borkjerfkin]

But the Human High council was very important imo. There is a good likely hood that at least one of them is in the game. If I had to choose any 1 person to be in the game it would be Emma Frost. I actually thought someone claimed this and I was going to destroy them but I was wrong.

Let me get this through your head:

Nobody is going to claim a canonical villain character from this universe.
You are not going to break the game with flavor claims.

Okey dokey?

[borkjerfkin]

Like the fun part is when you make these kinds of suppositional flavor arguments, you have absolutely no culpability when you're wrong: "guess the mod just interpreted differently than I would have"

and that's why this conversation blows.

[borkjerfkin]

If there is a survivor in this game Desp gets to go back to mod school because survivors are fucking dumb

[borkjerfkin]

If I ever roll survivor I am claiming in my first post and posting prod-dodge for the rest of the game

[borkjerfkin]

did anyone actually claim emma? If no then why the fuck are we talking about this

[borkjerfkin]

then my question is to beast

[borkjerfkin]

I seriously have no idea how this is supposed to be pertinent to whether or not snowstorm is scum

[borkjerfkin]

Jiffy can you please be fucking candid with me on whether or not you really think Mollie is capable of posting the shit she's posted this game as scum? Like you're getting into a tunnel and I see you do this shit all the time as town but against this slot is making me really wary considering the read I had on you both before this started was town and you know each other well enough to not TvT tunnel so hard.

except that isn't what I said? I said borky is finally coming to the conclusion that you might not be town cos of the torturous reasoning. <--- this is what I said.

This is accurate. This is a utility lynch only insofar as you're dominating every aspect of the thread and almost every post is some kind of reaction to you and that you feel the need to post the same point about people like 80 fucking times.

But at the same time you're pushing cases based on heavy doses of supposition and blind assertions of things you can't back up with anything that makes a modicum of sense (if I don't presuppose you're town and everyone who is scumreading you knows you're town and just wants you out of the game and that is the only reason they're all pushing you) which is circular reasoning, and I can't attribute that to town no matter how much your attitude and attempt to control the game occasionally befits a town player.

I really wanna do some marathons and not worry about this shit tonight but I'll be around.

[borkjerfkin]

ugh, posts like these always make me wonder if I am on the wrong track.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this post.

(A quick ISO showed he posted it in 2 other games, but even if he hadn't...?)

[borkjerfkin]

WE'RE NOT

FUCKING LYNCHING

A BELOVED PRINCESS CLAIM

BEFORE WE FIND OUT IF THERE'S A VIG WHO CAN JUST FUCKING SHOOT THEM

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING

[borkjerfkin]

Just because we aren't lynching him doesn't mean I can't try to feel better about my stance.

as long as we're clear on this because I want a zero percent chance we get two nights in a row here.

[borkjerfkin]

@bork, i dont know where you got off on being "WE DONT LYNCH HIM B/C ROLE" but i dont give a damn, if i want to lynch him next day i will

Risk management. If he turns up dead from a vig you get all the good stuff from having him flip without any of the bad stuff from 'potential beloved princess'.

[borkjerfkin]

p-edit: i know that but what if we have no vig and its some fake claim? I mean heck, its an easy claim to coast as scum.

This is why you don't lynch him Day 1, which is what I am advocating we don't do. A vig is likely to kill him if he does exist and then the conversation is moot and we don't lose a day. I'm not saying don't lynch him

ever

, especially if we end up with evidence of no vig (although that would be a fucking huge dick move in a game with a legitimate beloved princess)

[borkjerfkin]

and as i already stated, he should of just claimed that right from start

I agree, for what it's worth, but it's not a common enough role that I think there's a common knowledge best practice for it.

[borkjerfkin]

fair enough;

my official stance is 'hope he's dead or the game ends in town win before we ever have to deal with him, and policy lynch late game (pre-lylo obviously) if the gamestate dictates it.'

[borkjerfkin]

You're campaigning on them awfully hard for a conflicted read.

[borkjerfkin]

Well

I'm just looking at shit like this

Now if we could go back to lynching the MollieMuffin that'd be great.

Which is from like yesterday

[borkjerfkin]

I mean yes shit changes over time but I need to know what is going on with this read without it being drowned in a Bubba-Yiley-Hiplop-esque tunnel with muffin

you know the kind i mean

p-edit: @jiffy

[borkjerfkin]

I see 2701 and 2754 - is that what you mean?

[borkjerfkin]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6047002

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6047283

FWIW, your 2754 does jive with your 3014.

[borkjerfkin]

If I'm going to die by the hands of town I'd rather be lynched, that way you get the punishment for your sucky reads.

[borkjerfkin]

You'll forgive me if I feel that your endorsement of the latter at a time when figuring your alignment is paramount is somewhat counterproductive if you're town?

[borkjerfkin]

lol

I have apparently been

prodded

(seriously where was this for the people w/ 1-5 posts half a week ago)

deadline is tomorrow with tons of slots not spoken for in a game that requires at least some participation from every slot to achieve it's primary mechanic

so that's fun

[borkjerfkin]

You agree Titus is scum and that Titus should be the lynch for the day yet you are asking for an extension and are trying to prolong the Titus lynch with said extension/freeze of the deadline. What is it that you hope to accomplish?

-Beast

Remember those cool objective things that we can't do unless the game is pretty much full up that you were expressing concern about getting done in a timely manner a few days ago?

Anyway:
I am frustrated with the lack of communication regarding replacements and their effect upon the deadline.
I am also frustrated that the interaction dynamics are stale as fuck right now because we're in such a holding pattern; it is demoralizing the game and you can see it with the posting rate having crawled to a halt in the past few days.

[borkjerfkin]

The person I am voting

[borkjerfkin]

Going back to feu if we get an extension.

Still don't get what you bought into about that conspiracy theory about "Feu's knowing muffin/mollie were faking each others' posts because it was some kind of advertised scum tactic they were doing" or what the fuck ever

[borkjerfkin]

No.

[borkjerfkin]

Because I think they're town and have been saying so all game?

[borkjerfkin]

Also Mac and Cheese wtf happened in the ~1950 post range (where one of your heads is saying "I don't think Feu is scummy" and your other is saying "he's scummier than snowstorm I guess" to the reads list you guys posted that made Feu your scummiest read.

Because that whole progression seems really suspect to me.

[borkjerfkin]

That reads list was post 1996, for reference. Not too far in the future.

[borkjerfkin]

Feu slipped in what way? I guess you're coming at this from an angle that doesn't make them scum w/ mollieslot so explain plox.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah you should really not make posts like that

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

Just for safety's sake (and I don't think my hood's going to end up being one of the all-on hoods here.

[borkjerfkin]

Ah, yes, by use of the extremely specific and damning word 'earlier'.

*wanking motion*

[borkjerfkin]

Do we have 2 entire hoods on with that?

[borkjerfkin]

Ah, yes, by use of the extremely specific and damning word 'earlier'.

*wanking motion*

[borkjerfkin]

Marquis do you have any posts that indicate your recognition/confusion with MollieMuffin's imitations prior to yesterday?

majiffy do you see any posts of mine indicating i didn't see it?/quote]
Your dodge.

Like I don't want 10 more pages of this but:

This isn't a dodge IMO - Titus' argument relies on the supposition that Feu actually never noticed a thing at the time but commented on it later as if he had, with the use of the phrase 'this is bothering me more now than it did earlier' handwaved into an interpretation of 'I am claiming I noticed this days ago [but am only commenting on it now because I am scum and it is convenient for me to (?)]' (not sure why you thorfaced at my bringing that up but that pretty much is what fucking happened)

And even so the end result was a pretty soft 'i'm paranoid of Mollieslot' read because of it. Like they're not even pushing a lynch with it.

This is like Wisdom-level scumhunting.

[borkjerfkin]

That is as best as I can refine my interpretation of that whole push on Feu and why I don't think it leads itself to any kind of scum motivation

[borkjerfkin]

His exact argument in response to my question was "well there's no evidence otherwise!"

This is incredibly disingenuous. Either he saw something earlier and should answer honestly, or he didn't and shouldn't have a problem admitting such.

The only way he should respond the way he did is if he is scum with inside info and sees no way out of answering my question honestly.

And I think he's frustrated and is asking 'why am I being held to this arbitrary standard of evidence'?

And "inside information" on what (unless you're arguing he's scum w/ mollie and they did talk about it in scum QT and I think that's a bit tinfoil-hatty)?

I think at

best

(with a really loose interpretation of what feu said) you have a minor contradiction here that is being latched onto as if it's somehow fucking obviously scum motivated, and his attempting to dismiss the argument without getting into it because he thinks it's baseless/stupid isn't something I think is out of character for town here.

Gotta go for a bit but that's about all I have to say about it.

[borkjerfkin]

Titus I seriously don't know what the fuck to do with you since you won't evaluate the game outside of the strict narrative you've constructed for yourself and a few arbitrary and sudden read changes that I mostly don't agree with or sometimes even comprehend.

Also I don't want Feu lynched.

As an aside (They never responded to me earlier so I want to reiterate):
Mac n Cheese's ISO looks worse to me today than it did before due to the fact that they're like backseat endorsing the Titus lynch while having really jarringly flipped on Feu in a way that I think was very after the fact and reacting to other people trying to push on him. Like I don't understand why they're posting stuff like 3096 and at the same time trying to get me off Titus onto Feu.

[borkjerfkin]

Very much don't think SKOT is scum now, btw.

[borkjerfkin]

He's like doing his best to say 'GUUUUUUYS I have meta' without breaking any rules and has been all (RL) day.

If Titus flips town especially I'd call SKOT pretty damn town; no reason to stick his neck out like that.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, ask me a question but I do observe scummy thing done by townreads. That's how I caught Mollie and Snowstorm.

Except that I don't particularly think you've caught Mollie.

or Venmar, or Feu. Our reads don't sync up at all.

Snowstorm is maybe scum, but he's another thing and all you said there is 'he's parroting' and I don't see how 1) that was plain to see or 2) that deserved such a huge fucking shift in read that quickly. He has also said "I do not want to live till LyLO" so honestly whatever with him.

[borkjerfkin]

are the reasons for Bork being town good ones or are they like the ones in Tales of You?

Read the first page of my ISO this game and then read, I dunno, all of Tales of You or whatever and I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Also it sucks that we can't talk in a QT

for this game

[borkjerfkin]

Venmar did nothing but tunnel metal sonic all game as Town, tunneled don_johnson in that open I played with him, tunneled RachMarie in Xenoblade (And was actually right there)
etc. etc. I've been trying to get you to read Xenosaga.

Spoiler:

what are your current reads bork

Here are some quick tiers that I compiled in like 2 minutes:

Town:
Rogue
Brian
Majiffy
...you guys (and your demeanor is reinforcing that even if you're kinda being a jerk [seriously I'd appreciate if you'd stop])
Brian
Venmar

(Tier 2)
---
Snowstorm
feu (both eek and titus are scumreading them in the hood now which I find odd/interesting)
nero
ika

(Conflicted and want to work out asap. Really really think there is 1 scum here due to interactions)
----
eek
Titus

(Others/Lynchable)
----
Toog (I'm willing to talk to people more about this since some are coming down hard in his defense but the manner in which he did it provided pretty much no help to town)
ULF
SKOT
Cloud 9
Rubik
Clusk
PV

@Titus: my reads from before. I'd take SKOT out of lynchable, move Majiffy to null, give AP a pass I guess since he's a 'blank slate about to become not that'.
More sure about Nero town
Slightly less sure about Brian town (but he replaced out of Xenosaga too for not keeping up so keep him tier 2) but I want that fucking slot filled ASAP
If you're town I want to look at eek over feu still. Something weird went fucking down during that whole 'be the first vote on eek/hammer eek' thing and feu seemed just as legitimately wanting to clear up the smoke and mirrors there as I was.

Most everyone else in 'lynch land' is still there, though.

Why am I townreading feu? A lot of it has been gut reactions to early game neighborhood stuff / suspicions on them, but there have been moments of clarity like that wall they posted that have resonated with me about where the game has gone, combined with that I don't buy this slip thing w/ mollieslot

[borkjerfkin]

Also Majiffy is arguing a subtly different angle than Titus to allow for Mollie being town and I'm not a huge fan of that whole interaction.

[borkjerfkin]

There is no wighle room in Jiffy's read.

?

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie townread is relatively recent.

And I would disagree with the campaigning bit.

Then you're fucking wrong?

He's not sheeping your 'Feu is scum with Mollie' bit, he's saying the contradiction between 'I was thinking about Mollieslot earlier (DAYS? WHO KNOWS)' and 'Not enough time has actually passed' makes them scum irrespective of Mollie's alignment.

[borkjerfkin]

re-read the neighborhood. i specifically said myself that we were NOT going to claim the sensor so any scum not in the neighborhood wouldn't be aware of it and be able to get around it because the best part of a sensor is the element of relative surprise.

I wanted to claim sensor from the getgo.

Scum in hood knows = all scum know. Yes?

[borkjerfkin]

Sounds like they wanted to go for a scumslip.

I just think they were arguing an objectively bad stance

[borkjerfkin]

That's excusing scum behavior.

Yes if I was scumreading him and wanted to confirmation bias everything he did then yes it is.

[borkjerfkin]

Even if scum already knew about the sensor, what about scum not in the neighborhood? There's no way a game this large and with this flavor isn't multiball.

If this actually IS multiball, I will be squinting at you

very

hard for this.

But no, I generally will not consider multiball games unless I have a reason to. Most games are not multiball.

[borkjerfkin]

I've actually been assuming a single scum faction of 5, especially in a game with a sensor, which becomes exponentially more powerful the less scum there are.'

p-edit: @nero: *shrug*. I would be willing to put money on that assessment. Even larges.

@feu: I know you were spitballing theory. Big jump between that and 'there HAS to >1 anti-town faction'

Also this game is like fucking 20 people where the hell did you get 30?

[borkjerfkin]

treading into dangerous territory please switch topics

[borkjerfkin]

Explain why in hood please.

I'll explain it here: it's venturing into tangential discussion of ongoing games.

[borkjerfkin]

Well considering they just said they were getting two games mixed up...yeah.

If this does end up multiball I'll be taking a huge look at Feu because that is not something I would be automatic to assume in any game (and would make me probably have to change my approach e.g.: townhunting less effective etc.)

What would a feu townflip do to your mollie read?

[borkjerfkin]

Ugh now I'm getting gears turning into my head with sensor vs multiball setup. It makes the role a lot more interesting to think about.

[borkjerfkin]

If feu flips scum and you town, it would probably affect my read on mollie negatively.

I agree with you that mollie's push on mac n cheese for the claim was silly, if nothing else, but she's hitting so many meta town notes that I'm holding onto that read for dear life right now.

[borkjerfkin]

Why do you think it's difficult to wagon anyone not named Titus despite the number townreading me?

Why do you think that virtually no one has gotten pressure for just tunnelling on me and ignoring the rest of the game?

Ugh.

I officially have cold feet on you now.

[borkjerfkin]

Would your read change if you couldn't tell if it was Mollie or Muffin talking?

I have no idea how to answer that

[borkjerfkin]

Funny, she hits all my meta scum notes.

How so?

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie appears obvtown when she's town. Muffin is the better scumplayer. Together, they speak depending on the objective they want, not based on who should be responding to a question. That's why the obfuscation.

I agree with this as a rule.

But I also nailed muffin scum early game twice before and he's not hitting that kind of play here.

Mollie also was scum in Xenosaga and she just seemed like more of a flaily mess than she is here by a long shot.

[borkjerfkin]

I just skimmed mollie's ISO in book of shadows and it is almost literally all potshot 1-liners and yelling for people and not interacting with them when they show up.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=19804

Link for the curious (copy in browser)

Not seeing the parallels to this game that you are.

[borkjerfkin]

ETL please just familiarize yourself with the early game eek wagon and Titus/Feu dynamics around it. It's kinda the only other relevant thing that happened today.

[borkjerfkin]

~post 1000 area or so

[borkjerfkin]

If she has to pick one thing to analyze in the next few hours, I would want it to be that

[borkjerfkin]

As opposed to what? I have my own methods of scumhunting that have become rather successful for me. I will review that and any other wagons that have occurred.

Considering the game is enormous and it surrounds pretty much all the people who have been majorly wagoned today, I would consider it the epicenter of the game. I'm obviously not trying to tell you how to play the game, just telling you where I think the most major stuff has happened.

But if it's a time thing, do not say other stuff is irrelevant

Fair enough, I worded that badly, but that's all stuff that surrounds your particular reads on people that she can read any time.

[borkjerfkin]

Just so you know, we're not lynching in our group today (me, bork, feu, etl). So feu's off the table.

Feu is off the table even if we are lynching in our group.

How the fuck are people throwing votes around after what happened yesterday?

[borkjerfkin]

This is almost certainly multiball (I've never seen any blue scum flip that had green town that wasn't multiball) and is causing me to think about the game a lot differently than I was yesterday.

if it's 3v3vtown: there is almost a 100% chance there is scum in every hood (the exception would be 2/2/2/0)

Anyway feu's off because of stuff in the hood last night.

[borkjerfkin]

It is somewhat likely there is no bluescum in our hood, also. Depends on what roles they flip as.

[borkjerfkin]

But yeah once again we've found ourselves with 2 hoods screwed out of obj 5 from daystart

[borkjerfkin]

Borkie is probably fooling everyone, but eh.

Part of being scum (and scum with you at that) in Tales was that I wanted to engage with you on your soft suspicions of me as little as possible.

I have no such qualms this game, so I'd be delighted if you'd go into why you think this.

[borkjerfkin]

why no blues there, bork? Cuz Nero was the kill? Fair enough.

No this is not why.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: AP
(this hood has already been voted)

ETL is convinced this slot is scum; Clusk was bad, AP hasn't really done anything town and just did something pretty anti-town, etc.

Curious as to why Toog had no legs yesterday and it suddenly does today. What changed?

[borkjerfkin]

Like that slot has had two players wantonly vote people.

[borkjerfkin]

And Mollie should really fucking know the score with the objectives by now and I'm really fucking disappointed with that vote out of the gate.

[borkjerfkin]

that would make them likely Red(?)scum? I think the interaction w/ Majiffy makes blue scum pretty unlikely.

[borkjerfkin]

And nothing you said is inherently scum motivated.

Like no matter my alignment I would not drive a lynch on someone because I did not like them personally and I very much doubt that is what's happening here.

p-edit: @Toog

Rogue what's your assessment of the hood?

[borkjerfkin]

Remember when he fucked all the neighborhoods yesterday? Like, on paper, that's the downright most scummy thing that's happened all game.

If anyone is on board with this sentiment it is me and I talked about it in hood, but ETL's been poopooing toog scum in hood because of 'genuine desire to scumhunt'. I was going to reread him to see if I can actually see evidence of such but I have not yet gotten to that.

[borkjerfkin]

yes

[borkjerfkin]

our hood was pretty active last night in general.

[borkjerfkin]

Funny thing, that.

[borkjerfkin]

I have just been informed Snowstorm claimed beloved princess wtf

This is something worth at least bringing up: Beloved princess in a game with this much potential for killing anti-town factions at night is pretty legit sounding as it's not super duper detrimental for town.

[borkjerfkin]

Kill stop is less powerful than it would be in a single scum game, too.

Sensor is fun though. We have two anti-town factions that can't coordinate with each other. Like we need to get sensor ASAP before I die

[borkjerfkin]

I want first vote and someone from my hood to hammer, no matter who we pick.

[borkjerfkin]

Our neighborhood is getting done today. It's by fucking far the most important ability.

Why is AP not getting lynched.

[borkjerfkin]

go on...

[borkjerfkin]

Clusk 'accidentally voted', screwing a neighborhood. Posted literally nothing else.
AP has coincidentally (?) done the same thing.
ETL meta reads him as scum.
I see essentially no reasoning for any of his reads thus far.

ULF push is of note in that it's mastin slot but that may mean nothing since mastin has been a non-presence.

Where is the town?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not 100% convinced either. That's kinda how this game works.

Going to bed.

[borkjerfkin]

Confirm vote. Want sensor. Ap is scum and not vig.

Will be more verbose at work.

[borkjerfkin]

So let's talk sensors.

We need to get the sensor ASAP, and we need to do it such that we're able to force the towniest people into one bucket and the scummiest people in the other bucket. I am going to hope AP flips other team but even if he doesn't, there's a lone blue teamer that doesn't know what the other team is doing.

If we force where people are on the wagon, we can circumvent scum's desire to obfuscate the results so that they're harder to find. We already know that we have 2 scum at most in a hood. If we organize ourselves so that we have a good amount of cross hood people on and off the wagon, it actually might make the game objectively solvable.

Sensor will work best when there are fewer scum left, but I want to at least GET it ASAP. Kill stop will be good too to give us an extra day whenever we want it. The others I don't care about quite as much.

We all need to predict AP lynch because he's fucking scum.

[borkjerfkin]

can every1 plz say who their neighbourhood predicted for the nk last night? like I am not just asking this to hear the sound of my own voice. like I have a legit reason.

We're in a holding pattern until I get some info that should hopefully clear a lot of things up.

[borkjerfkin]

you are fucking terrible if you're town and you legit think I'm scum.

But hey you'd have gotten a lot of objectives filled!

[borkjerfkin]

Like let me get this straight

I was scum with you in Tales and was constantly posting in the scum QT about how much anxiety I was incurring about posting in the game with so many people that knew me

And have exhibited absolutely zero of that here and played a pretty pro-town game to boot.

But once again, I'm listening AP.

[borkjerfkin]

wasn't feu the first to be bring up multiball? that might be the 1 read titus had right. feu/majiffy scumteam does not make sense. whoever shot nero is not in the same hood with him cos no way do you shoot a commuter claim.

I hope to clear this up soon.

[borkjerfkin]

1. I sabotaged an objective (no, that was NS, no comment on that from you?)

1) I fucked that up. Retracted.
2) Who cares? What the hell is wrong with sheeping a read?
3) No

Anyway I'm not interested in casing you. I'm waiting on some information and then either you're going to be scum or you're not. I'll be more open about it when the cards are on the table.

[borkjerfkin]

Okie dokie.

[borkjerfkin]

ns I don't know how the hell else we're gonna discern any of their alignments (rubik/PV lurkaderps) if we don't start putting pressure in that hood at some point. You're kinda the only one who has any sort of presence in the hood too.

[borkjerfkin]

why is perv last on every1's list cos i really wanna lynch him

I'd lynch Rubik or PV about interchangibly. Rubik is slightly more IIoA-y so he maybe gets the edge? Blood from a stone

[borkjerfkin]

Rubik had something that looked like a scumslip early which I called out and pushed but his reaction was very calm which made me raise an eyebrow S he said he was a newbie and id expect new town accused of scumslipping would freak out

this?

[borkjerfkin]

What was the 'slip' you allegedly caught

[borkjerfkin]

I want to say I've seen scum do that before but I can't remember when exactly that was.

I have done this before as scum.

[borkjerfkin]

He mentioned that the rewards all seemed more pro-town than not

Why did this not come up before?

[borkjerfkin]

If you did you didn't make a big enough deal of it because I missed it

I had to ISO you to even get context about you previously mentioning a slip at all.

[borkjerfkin]

This would be more along the lines of GoW Bork than anything.

I'll bite: what did I do in gears of war that is anything like what I am doing this game?

[borkjerfkin]

Like seriously you seem to have come into the game prepared to scumread me and I just don't even

[borkjerfkin]

Well I mean I read 150 pages overnight so I can understand why my reads seem 'sudden'.

Ok, well this is going to be my one reachout to you: I'll even accompany it with this:

UNVOTE:

I am town.

I am waiting on some very specific information from a specific person. If they say one thing, you're incredibly likely scum and I'm voting you. If they say another thing, I'm totally fucking wrong about what I thought was going on and I will fucking apologize straight up for it. Whichever one happens, I will full disclose and the entire fucking neighborhood will back me up.

I feel like you came into the game with the intent to alienate me (I remember the 'are they like Tales of You reasons' comment) and then at daystart you scumread me without a word to why. I feel like I've been really fucking transparent this game and I just don't know where the fuck you're coming from here.

I will admit that I am on you initially because I sheeped ETL who I talked an extensive amount with overnight and am townreading. I am not trying to 'avoid responsibility' for anything or push anything on to ETL - I have done no such thing and I'd appreciate if you didn't assert that because you think I might do something that I have done that thing.

If you are town we are on the same team. Literally everyone else in the game (some who I've played with incredibly extensively) realize this. There is a reason for it.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm going to defer talking about marquis slot until later this evening.

I straight up pushed a strategy early on of 'let's decide on a quicklynch D1 and nail the easy parts of the objectives and play normally from then on with the hood voting finagling we need to do for #3 and #4'. If that rubs you the wrong way then I really don't know what to say other than I still think it was the right call because I put a lot of stock in the sensor role, but people out of the gate fucked it up anyway and here we are with nothing to show for it yet.

[borkjerfkin]

Got what I needed.

Well I mean I read 150 pages overnight so I can understand why my reads seem 'sudden'.

Ok, well this is going to be my one reachout to you: I'll even accompany it with this:

UNVOTE:

I am town.

I am waiting on some very specific information from a specific person. If they say one thing, you're incredibly likely scum and I'm voting you. If they say another thing, I'm totally fucking wrong about what I thought was going on and I will fucking apologize straight up for it. Whichever one happens, I will full disclose and the entire fucking neighborhood will back me up.

I feel like you came into the game with the intent to alienate me (I remember the 'are they like Tales of You reasons' comment) and then at daystart you scumread me without a word to why. I feel like I've been really fucking transparent this game and I just don't know where the fuck you're coming from here.

I will admit that I am on you initially because I sheeped ETL who I talked an extensive amount with overnight and am townreading. I am not trying to 'avoid responsibility' for anything or push anything on to ETL - I have done no such thing and I'd appreciate if you didn't assert that because you think I might do something that I have done that thing.

If you are town we are on the same team. Literally everyone else in the game (some who I've played with incredibly extensively) realize this. There is a reason for it.

Egg on my face moment of the game is getting me to doubt myself enough to have to post this.

VOTE: AP

AP is scum. We are lynching him.

Going out to eat; more later.

[borkjerfkin]

AP is going to flip scum and I am against any plan that doesn't lynch him today.

[borkjerfkin]

Like you either do the high risk high reward play play and take my word for it or we do the low risk play, lynch Rubik, hope he's scum, and rinse and repeat.

It's probably anti-town to full disclose what we know at this point, but multiple people can corroborate what I am saying so I don't give a tenth of a fuck what AP has to say about it.

[borkjerfkin]

Then you will be the one I hold accountable for screwing up our chances at a sensor.

Then you are hilariously out of touch with reality.

[borkjerfkin]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't particularly care what you have to say about my alignment at this point in the game.

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

Because AP's ATE is somehow town to her

[borkjerfkin]

sup duder

[borkjerfkin]

Um.

[borkjerfkin]

fwiw, AP, this is actually unfair since mollie was considering the possibility that bork was scum well before you even mentioned it, and so was i

I want mollie to say to my face that she thinks I'm scum (and why!)

[borkjerfkin]

And this whole 'I'm obfuscating my reads intentionally so that scum will crosskill my secret scumread haha' is bunk as shit.