Tales of You (Endgame)

[Breakfast With Sandy]

despbro is tracker, and thus saw AP take the action, however Panda's delayer role gives AP the result the day after, instead day of. I think it's possible that AP is faking the results while still being truthful about who he targeted

He's saying he's a tracker who gets no result on replicas though and is confirming ap as town.

But it is still possible he is a GF type role that appears as "not a replica" to all cops just like I as a miller appear as a replica to all cops. And then if tracked, he chooses who he supposedly visited.

But then in order for him to know his night one action should fail, he'd have to be scum with nacho.

Or someone else on the scum team targeted nacho and their action (whatever it may have been) failed.

Betting scum have a rolecop in this setup.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'm posting this without Beli's review mostly because I think what this thread really needs is more outrage and exclamations. :/

TownTownTown

Magenta_thegreat - mostly a Beli read at this point. ffery paranoia warning now covers 4 midwestern states
Just Sheep Us - fuck the haters

So far my end of day 1 town as fuck reads have been good so I'm sticking with them. for now.

Town

Titan - the whole dust-up between her and CF gave me scum theater freak-out but some of her questions and lines of thought during claimarama feel more genuine than anything she's posted prior. Beli thinks strong town.

CarbonFiber - same concerns about scum theater. I have my blind spots in mafia but there is something about the way he has yo-yoed on tammy that freaks me out a little. It worried me that on day 2 he didn't claim to have gotten mysterious non-role-related info about AP. I tested that by letting him know who the info came from on day 2, hoping that if we died on N2 someone would look back and find that exchange somehow in the middle of all the day 2 spam. Still, on day 1 I felt like of my town reads he was likely to survive, and that even if he didn't out the info right away, he'd probably share it with his neighborhood and if our n1 results were useful, then town would see them. I don't like to put aside than strong of an early read.

PeregrineV - there's this slight rumble in site meta about how the world needs more scum vig roles, and if anyone would be an early adopter, Cabd would. He's here but I'm not feeling a strong sense of conviction about it. I also really don't like some of his pushes, but I think I've found that he tends to look better in retrospect than in the moment, even when he's really, really wrong. I hate all the BoP cases he's advanced so far this game. And after an intense 8 day NY 172 review I feel like there's a lot less transparency about what thought process pushes his reads in various directions in this game.

Maybe Town, Could be Scum

nachomamma - I am going to wonder until I know his alignment if I should have made that half-assed case for town-Mastin being so self-absorbed that she would be blind to the basis of BRO's late day 1 posting.

The Fox and the Hound - read is stale as fuck and I am not all that happy with where they've placed their attention on day 3, and am very not happy with the lack of attention on day 2.

Red Gyarados - stale read, and less than impressive catch-ups. Not as bad as F&H but close.

AngryPidgeon - two words. White Mage. I'm also befuddled that he thinks level of involvement in this game should be indicative of town-Mastin given her day 1 involvement in L4D. I don't want to lynch him because of the claim but it's a close, close call. And has been since his day 1 claim.

Penguin_Alien - The certainty about the Mastin-read so soon after replacing in worries me some. Tammy's read on both Peng and Clyton persuade me not to push here today, but it also is a close call.

Cupcake Panda - don't like the lead-up to the big reveal. don't like the early reactions, though the last few posts are more in solve-it mode.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

should have said the list isn't seriatim. should just add that to my sig.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ffery, how does your read on AP change after seeing Mastin flip?

On D2, you had Mastin and AP as scumreads. Did you think they were scum together? I am assuming you didn't considering you said your mind was blown when I accused them of being scum together.

Oddly, despite my scumteam guess, I came away with more certainty on AP scum after seeing Mastin and Rancid flip town because it felt like they were town that legitimately had a scumread on AP and wanted him dead pretty badly.

I thought I was coming into day 3 with AP at the top of my willing to lynch list.

I felt like his relief at having OMG RESULTS was palplable at the start of the day. I recently played a game where I had this incredibly awesome role and between being JK'd by town trying to protect me, RB'd by scum and basically ordered by the rest of town to target the player who died on n4 I would up with NOTHING from the previous 4 nights to back up my role claim by the time we hit day 5. I think that primed me to read relief in those posts. Whether it's really there or not.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, with regards to where Ceph placed his attention, I felt he gave me most of his attention.

And you think that was a good place for Ceph's attention given the game state?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Beli and I have decided to full-claim our night action.

We're an amnesiac follower. We pick a target and a player to receive the results.

Night 1 we targeted AP and picked CF to get the results. Night 2 as I've said, we targeted Cupcake and chose one of our bet the farm town reads to get the result, but our role failed.

Can your role fail if the person you select to receive the message was roleblocked, rolestopped, jailkept or other not available?

I've asked Cabd this question and the answer is that my part wouldn't fail. So I assume I would get a different message back than the message I got last night.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Why do you want to know character names?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Why do you want to know character names?

You are one of the fab four who are currently unknown.

You can stay that way, but then we start to wonder why.

Character names give info about gender and age. I don't plan to claim our character for that reason, since I think some roles (possibly scum roles) need that info to decide who they can effectively target.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Why do you want to know character names?

You are one of the fab four who are currently unknown.

You can stay that way, but then we start to wonder why.

Character names give info about gender and age. I don't plan to claim our character for that reason, since I think some roles (possibly scum roles) need that info to decide who they can effectively target.

According to 5563, they already have you pegged and can effectively target you.

Why else?

Or because I targeted someone I can't target because of an age or gender limitation on my targets. Which was my going-in assumption since RG reported also being blocked.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Why do you want to know character names?

You are one of the fab four who are currently unknown.

You can stay that way, but then we start to wonder why.

Character names give info about gender and age. I don't plan to claim our character for that reason, since I think some roles (possibly scum roles) need that info to decide who they can effectively target.

According to 5563, they already have you pegged and can effectively target you.

Why else?

Or because I targeted someone I can't target because of an age or gender limitation on my targets. Which was my going-in assumption since RG reported also being blocked.

Then I guess you would ask Cupcake their age and gender to see if that would be the cause of your role failure. Did I miss that?

With the phenomenal power of google, I was able to conjure that information from nothing but electrons once Katsuki claimed their character name.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Character names give info about gender and age. I don't plan to claim our character for that reason, since I think some roles (possibly scum roles) need that info to decide who they can effectively target.

According to 5563, they already have you pegged and can effectively target you.

Why else?

Or because I targeted someone I can't target because of an age or gender limitation on my targets. Which was my going-in assumption since RG reported also being blocked.

Then I guess you would ask Cupcake their age and gender to see if that would be the cause of your role failure. Did I miss that?

With the phenomenal power of google, I was able to conjure that information from nothing but electrons once Katsuki claimed their character name.

Does Cupcake's character contain an age or gender that would be someone you couldn't target?

I don't know. I just know that the age/gender data is different from the player I was able to target successfully. This is called speculation. The same speculation that drives my reluctance to name my character.

Secondly, if you already know the answer to the Cupcake question, then why are you bringing up 5744?

I can't even fathom a reason for why you ask this. I have a theory. I've collected some data. The data doesn't invalidate my theory, but that doesn't make the theory correct. It's still a theory, and it's still in play in terms of how I'm interpreting the game state. Both theories stand up so far.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

AP targeted you. You claimed your role failed. If your role failed because of an invalid target, then that's different from it failing because you were roleblocked.

Yes. And? Cupcake claims to have delayed AP's night action. This is a Gordian knot. The solutions to Gordian knots often involve sharp, pointy objects.

As I said earlier there's something in the way that RG phrased his report of being roleblocked that mirrors how my failed results report was phrased. This, plus a roleblocker already having flipped, is the whole reason I started thinking about other possibilities beyond roleblock for our lack of results last night.

Since I'm probably not going to tell you what you want to know (unless something in the game state suggests that it's time to share that info), and you're not going to stop digging for it, I probably won't respond to further posts from you on this subject.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ok, so Cabd and I have had a conversation about whether my role has target restrictions that weren't made explicit. And the answer is no, that he would make that sort of restriction known to the player in their role PM.

So, I'm going to put aside the idea that there could be internal-to-my-role-mechanics reasons for my action on cupcake failing last night.

I'm still cautious about assuming there are three blocking roles in this game design, though.

@RG

why do you think you were more likely to have been targeted by a town roleblocker than I would have been?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Actually with Tammy's claimed role, maybe 3 or more roles that could roleblock isn't out of the question.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

What if Stalin is a Godfather?

Think about it. I was allowed to investigate Stalin. What if Stalin is an Amnesiac Follower Messenger Ninja Roleblocking Godfather role?

What if they blocked CupcakePanda last night and sent a fake message to Carbon Fiber night one in order to set up this amnesiac Follower claim in the future?

We can't be certain that Stalin is actually town. I mean JSU looks town and JSU suspected Stalin on D2! Also Mastin made serveral posts aout how stalin could be scum. I think a lot of mastin's points can be ignored, but the points about stalin were almost all entirely salient. When JSU called CF obvious scum and Stalin kept focusing on that instead of answering CF's penetrating questions...that was probably just blatantly scum motivated from Stalin and would certainly fit with them being a Amnesiac Follower Messenger Ninja Roleblocking Godfather. Maybe Stalin is pretending to be roleblocked tonight even though they actually roleblocked BOTH Rg and Cupcake so that they can make it look even LESS likely that Panda was roleblocked by scum and therefore will be incriminated by all the bullshit going on Today. Why was Stalin so sure RBD was town after they got vig'd? surely only scum would know that such an anti-town player was actually town. RBD was practically confirmed scum, so its pretty suspicious that Ffery could know that. What if Stalin also sent them a message last night with some more fake follower results in it because, as a perfect Godfather, they are capable of viewing the dead thread and posting in it?

Just a thought. Maybe we should consider lynching Stalin today!!!!

You forgot my highly suspicious ability to use google search and get back meaningful search results.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Nacho, a readslist would be awesome today.

eta ninja'd

[Breakfast With Sandy]

And is still calling you scum.

And you see this as town thought process?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

And is still calling you scum.

And you see this as town thought process?

Yes, I do. I see it more likely that CF would be unwilling to let go of his last major scumread from Day 1 as opposed to CF-scum trying to strongarm someone who is, for all intensive purposes, confirmed town.

I agree with this.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

JSU - if they are scum I'm going to be so fucking smug about this. Their role claim bugs me. Their behavior bugs me.

That shit about not looking transparent in thread to catch scum

setting them is such 14 year old VI bullshit I want to pummel something.

Desperados play in this game so much matches his play in charmed and the reckoning more so than red wedding or we the purple, that of anyone he should be understanding of bring suspicious of him, it's me considering in both those games I gave a scum him a pass.

The people are setting me up for a mastin town flip, when who does that anyway, is twitch inducing especially since he accused ffery who declared them town without a doubt. What else did I want to say? I HAD MORE.

Oh I hated the way des attacked ffery yesterday, it just felt so slimy, the whole give me a scum read from all those ends was just atrocious.

Maybe it was because it was a bad attack on the only person I think is town, and am buddying at this point!, but it just felt so off. But they're part of my claim dream state I'm rolling in so more on this later maybe.

i've never said the bold and i was annoyed when you chastized me for it the first time but seriously, if you're going to yell at someone for not reading posts you should get your glass walls replaced.

as for the italics, it's my fault you can't read me worth shit? you put me up for eviction three times in big brother and pushed me pretty hard in we the purple, iirc. we were opposite alignments in all of our other games. perhaps you just don't have the first fucking clue about what i would or wouldn't do as scum?

and finally the underlined, you mean these posts?

That's never been the pattern in the first place. If someone is reading me wrong, then I question their other reads and their understanding of the gamestate. If Mastin is town, then her understanding of the game state is warped by her misreading me.

this is pretty dumb considering townies have misread townies in every game of mafia ever

also you are seriously overrating how influential the neighborhood is and how much content it's robbing from the actual game thread. the vast majority of f-16's posting there has made its way here, either verbatim or spread throughout several posts.

uh???

all i want is one name, ffery. one scumread.

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

pedit: "i will vote mastin at deadline" isnt a fucking scumread, are you serious?

you voted me ap and orcinus at deadline d1 and last i checked you think we're all town now so...no

i stand behind every single point i made in that sequence.

The only thing I didn't like about this was that you didn't continue to engage me about it until we came to some sort of meeting of the minds or you pushed me like I was an actual scumread.

But, you sat like a log in ny 169 while scumreading me, so even though I don't like how you did this, I can see it from town-you.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

What post is that (the RG phrase)?

I'm not going to say.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Reading ISOs is tech.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

The only thing I didn't like about this was that you didn't continue to engage me about it until we came to some sort of meeting of the minds or you pushed me like I was an actual scumread.But, you sat like a log in ny 169 while scumreading me, so even though I don't like how you did this, I can see it from town-you.

this was your response:

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

pedit: "i will vote mastin at deadline" isnt a fucking scumread, are you serious?

I've been exercising extreme restraint for days now, thinking that I had a bias problem going on. I may have a bias problem but I don't care any more. I'm not going to spend any more time rereading, rethinking, reconsidering, or trying to understand other players' reads on mastinssk.

I'm done.

It doesn't really matter when I vote. I doubt very seriously my vote will go anywhere else today.

Which got nothing back from you.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

And is still calling you scum.

And you see this as town thought process?

Yes, I do. I see it more likely that CF would be unwilling to let go of his last major scumread from Day 1 as opposed to CF-scum trying to strongarm someone who is, for all intensive purposes, confirmed town.

It is not that he is my last major scumread. It is that Mastin and Rancid flipping town was a wake up call and I realized that they wanted AP dead all along. If one of Mastin/Rancid flipped town, I wouldn't have gone after the other because they said that the other was town. But BOTH flipping town and telling us to get AP dead? That only increased my suspicion rather than throw me off.

And all the corroboration of his claimed night actions/results fit where in this?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Which got nothing back from you.

what did you need? you already knew where i stood on mastin.

effort at sorting me, your scum read, whom you had just accused of lacking scumreads would have been nice. Or engaging me about my PoE list.

It's been pretty frustrating. I like to work with townreads and understand their perspective of the game state, regardless of their current read on me.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

i was frustrated with what i perceived to be you dragging your feet (despite your hydra partner having a hard scumread on mastin before waffling on it) and i wanted you to take a stand on something

Ok.

Though IMO I took plenty of public stands on players despite having mush at the bottom of my PoE list.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Though IMO I took plenty of public stands on players despite having mush at the bottom of my PoE list.

and unfortunately most of those stances were in direct opposition to mine so i didn't want to hear it

Are we aligning better now?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Are we aligning better now?

yes. is magenta really beli's top town?

I don't know if he's top of Beli's list, but Beli feels very strongly that the role has to be town despite cabd game paranoia.

My townread is based on how he used the role.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

ap
stalin
falcon
nacho
titan
peregrinev

i really believe that if the 6 of us realize that we're all town this game is solved

I can roll with this for now.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I don't know if he's top of Beli's list, but Beli feels very strongly that the role has to be town despite cabd game paranoia.

does beli feel strongly that multiple gladiating roles must be town?

i think at the time his choice for the cagefight seemed ok but i thought business was town before and i think there were better choices. or he could have just put up two scummy people like us and rancid and let that resolve itself d1 rather than festering over into d2.

The thread was still utterly stunned with the shining towniness BRO was radiating. That wasn't going to happen.

He could have put two nulls null/scum in the ring but part of his reason for doing it the way he did was that he thought he'd be able to discuss stuff with the players he gladiated during the cagematch. He stated as much beforehand.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Convince me? Seriously, convince me. Stalin is confirmed. PV is claiming vig so he gets a get out of lynch free card for the time being. Titan I buy. Falcon I really really need to be sold on. Nacho I really want to believe is town because everything hes saying matches my feelings, but I dont feel amazing about writing him off just yet.

This is where I am at today. I'm willing to put all of that group off the table. And I'm going to also put magenta off the table because that's one of our bet the farm reads. And I'm going to look at the other 5 and figure out which ones I am willing to lynch today.

I'll start over on day 4 if I'm around for it.

Who would you add to that list today? What strong town read of yours is missing?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

ap
stalin
falcon
nacho
titan
peregrinev

i really believe that if the 6 of us realize that we're all town this game is solved

I can roll with this

for now

.

Is this Beli or Ffery? I thought ffery had doubts about more than one person in that list.

This is ffery. Key phrase has been bolded. There's only one player in that list who is below my maybe-town line and that is mostly paranoia based and the read has been on the rise of late. I have

doubts

about every player on the list. I have stronger doubts about every player NOT on the list with one exception.

He could have put two nulls null/scum in the ring but part of his reason for doing it the way he did was that he thought he'd be able to discuss stuff with the players he gladiated during the cagematch. He stated as much beforehand.

Wait, are you reading MAgenta as town over their D1 role usage mostly? Because, if so, these points aren't really passing QA.

Partly. And partly due to a gut reaction to the way orcinus asked me if I would be ok with being one of the gladiate-ees. Once in a while I get a <handclasp level of offered trust> sense from a post, just a really strong sense that we're on the same team. Doesn't happen often.

Magenta put you up as a lynch

because he thought he could talk to you

. Uhhh. Given that he was lurking hardcore D1, I tend to find the town motivation in him wanting to talk to you during the match to be kind of...not apparent? Also its 100% plausible that scum lied about understanding this part of the role. I find it a little weird that he could misunderstand something that should be obvious in his role PM..or not bother to confirm with the mod at all before chanting "ramming speed!!" and putting a strong townread of his into a gladiate situation.

That's great and all. I'm not expecting you or anyone else to townread orcinus because I am or for the reasons I am.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Convince me? Seriously, convince me. Stalin is confirmed. PV is claiming vig so he gets a get out of lynch free card for the time being. Titan I buy. Falcon I really really need to be sold on. Nacho I really want to believe is town because everything hes saying matches my feelings, but I dont feel amazing about writing him off just yet.

This is where I am at today. I'm willing to put all of that group off the table. And I'm going to also put magenta off the table because that's one of our bet the farm reads. And I'm going to look at the other 5 and figure out which ones I am willing to lynch today.

I'll start over on day 4 if I'm around for it.

Who would you add to that list today? What strong town read of yours is missing?

I don't think we're going to lynch anyone other than Cupcake or AP today. Why would we?

While I am townreading Cupcake, I realize he's probably going to be the lynch unless something groundbreaking comes up considering Desp-BRO is contradicting his claimed night action.

welcome to feryland. I can contemplate the possibility that they are both town. It's not

quite

as difficult as contemplating the possibility that Wake88 was town and faking a guilty on me in your mini normal.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Nacho, would it fail if I sent you the results tonight?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'm losing the plot with all these scenarios.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I never said that he claimed in order to get KAtsuki lynched. For that to happen....I dont even know who would have to be in on it. JSU might be probable scum?

Katsuki.

Like this. I have no idea what this is about.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'm officially banning the phrase "lolcabdgame".

You can't do that. It will spoil the drinking game.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

even-night.

eta CABD's drinking game.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

You were scum in the last one.
DIE YOU SCUMFUCK

pedit: that ssk/cabd one

Who is he manipulating in this game?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

Can you talk about your reads and what you learned from the day 1 deadline madness?

My significant pull from deadline madness was a cut off dick if wrong townreads on you, orc, JSU.
Currently, I only care about mastin.

Nacho what happened to this orcinus read?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I just asked Cabd if a Tracker would be able to see an action if that action were successfully Delayed on the same night. The answer was no.

Katsuki is confirmed to have not Delayed me

AND YOU DIE AFTER MY FLIP

But not right away, because your scumbuddies have to flip us before AP or we're conftowned beyond the possibility of argument.

Bring it.

-Beli

[Breakfast With Sandy]

NACHO TAMMY, AP, PV, JSU : THIS IS MY HRAI!

EK'RAH SKABAK ERG THRAK'KILRAH MAKS RAG'NITH!

-gin

[Breakfast With Sandy]

VOTE: CupcakePanda

[Breakfast With Sandy]

L-2

[Breakfast With Sandy]

oh this vote isnt even valid teehee ill selfhammer later.

Well that's not a scum-sentiment

at all

.

I don't know if we're synched on this read but lard t'und'rin jeez, I'll nae weep any bitter tears when this happens.

-gin

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'm waiting to see how you explain tomorrow its gonna be fun

You seem awfully sure you're going to be today's lynch and not Cupcake.

And hey, I'm onboard with towncho too, so it's not one player being insane, it's multiple players agreeing on a read that bloody well makes sense.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

-I think that two players reported being blocked. I don't suspect either of these players nor townread either of these players because of their report. Is there a reason why you think it's important?

And you think there could be 3 (or possibly more if cupcakepanda is town) blocking roles?

Why are you using degree of attention to read me?

There are two of you. Since maybe mid-late day 1 neither of you have been much of a presence in the game. Your catch ups have been forgettable and often lacking questions or opinions about significant game events. Like today.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

-I think that two players reported being blocked. I don't suspect either of these players nor townread either of these players because of their report. Is there a reason why you think it's important?

And you think there could be 3 (or possibly more if cupcakepanda is town) blocking roles?

Why are you using degree of attention to read me?

There are two of you. Since maybe mid-late day 1 neither of you have been much of a presence in the game. Your catch ups have been forgettable and often lacking questions or opinions about significant game events. Like today.

-I think it's possible, yes. I really don't think the number of blocking roles was important until Cupcake's alignment pretty much relied on it, and I still don't understand why you seem to have.

-That's not a good answer.

What should I be using to read you?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I am terrible at reading you and I won't argue that. I actually got through NY 172 without developing a read on you at all and maybe that's the best I can do - read everyone else and then apply PoE.

Which is pretty much what I've done in this game.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Why not just say it's PoE then? Why the need to add on something that is certainly not alignment-relevant to me and probably not very alignment-relevant for others either?

Because your play bothers me, and I'm not sure it's alignment neutral. And my concern that when you do catch up in this game the stuff you have mostly focused on (prior to the last 12 hours or so) has seemed pretty low on opinions about some of the major knots that have developed.

I don't recall ever making this observation about you in our prior games, so I'm not sure why you feel so strongly that I shouldn't be concerned about it.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

And my concern that when you do catch up in this game the stuff you have mostly focused on (prior to the last 12 hours or so) has seemed pretty low on opinions about some of the major knots that have developed.

I agree that this is different from the lack of attention and being forgettable (I do feel like you're sidestepping my suspicion that you wouldn't actually be using those reasons as town though), but the main reason I've been confused about this is that the questions you went out of your way to ask me (about the roleblockers and Magenta asking for flavour claim) just weren't things I felt were worth commenting on and I don't understand why this would be something I'd do as scum. I don't know what other things you might be referring to, but I think I've made it pretty clear that my catch-ups were at least to supposed to be quick so I could decide what I really think in my reading of ISOs.

I picked two things that caught my eye because of the current overall gamestate and because I have felt like they are representative of the sorts of posts/events that had gotten little discussion due to all the focus on the early day 3 exchanges between CF and Titan. I feel like the huge arguments and walls - not just between CF and Titan, but day after day - RBD, Mastin, AP - the focus is always on the noise. And I feel like that has been to the advantage of scum.

And I feel like that's where your activities have mostly been, when you've been active at all. Hidden in the noise.

And I have no idea why town-you would have such a suspicion about my approach to you this game. I am not making some of the mistakes I made in prior games, such as the Song uPick where I hyperfocused on one or two posts that struck me as odd and kept worrying at them.

And as town, I absolutely am using these reasons.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

6078 says that it's

lack of presence, forgettable catch-ups

& lack of opinion on game events

6084 says that it's pretty much just PoE

6086 says that it's lack of opinion on game events

It seems that with each question I've asked, you've changed your answer to neatly counter my question, and my particular problem is the convenient disappearance of the bolded.

No, they're all related. If I could come up with a 4-5 word description that gets to the heart of what has bothered me enough that you aren't anywhere near the top of my list of players I think are town any more, I'd spit it out.

Keep in mind - I thought Ceph had towntold beyond any shadow of a doubt on day 1. And it happened while you both were active and engaged and sorting stuff. That sense that you had become obvtown has faded to grey since then because you haven't been engaged.

I like that you're putting more thought into the game now, though. I don't think my reads list order would change a lot if I were putting it together today. I still can't see you as probable-town, but I doubt I would have put the same description down.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

And I have no idea why town-you would have such a suspicion about my approach to you this game.

It's because in Song Contest, I ended up having absolutely no presence to the point where I had no idea what was going on and almost wanted to be lynched.

My presence was also very low for a lot of Doctor Who iirc.

This is why I don't understand why presence/forgettable posts is a factor at all.

So I kind of don't believe that you would have no idea when:

1. I have said that I often have low presence as town
2. You have played with me-town in 2 of said games
3. I have kind of already explained that this is my problem?

I don't really care about the commenting on game events thing. Obviously I didn't have anything to say that I... well... didn't say, but my problem is with the low presence thing and I think this should be pretty understandable!

PEdit: The description was accurate, that's fine. You thinking us not-town/scum, although obviously not great, is fine. You making it out like lack of presence has something to do with our alignment when it doesn't. That's not.

Why should it be understandable?

From a gamestate perspective, your picking me to engage as a suspect here looks strange, but maybe it's because I'm here to reply to you and nobody else is active right now.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Why should it be understandable?

From a gamestate perspective, your picking me to engage as a suspect here looks strange, but maybe it's because I'm here to reply to you and nobody else is active right now.

???

Because at the moment I'm in an unassailable town position - role corroborated and a claimed cop innocent on me with a tracker backing up that some sort of night action actually happened. My shelf life is short unless something massive happens to the game state, which I don't expect.

Ffery plays with DV in game. DV has low presence and engagement for much of it and is mislynched.

Ffery was dead long before you were mislynched and that had nothing to do with her read (mostly Syr's read) of you in that game.

Ffery plays with DV in another game. DV starts off ok, but ends up having no presence or engagement and is mislynched.

A mislynch FFery wasn't in on, iirc. My head was mostly trying to sort the star-crosssed lovers situation for the latter half of that game.

Ffery plays with DV in another game! Says that she doesn't read DV as town, citing lack of presence and engagement as things she doesn't like.

ffery's read is based on TWO players' activity in your slot.

It's not just you with the low activity and lack of engagement. If you were playing solo, I don't think I'd have the same concerns, or at least not to the same degree.

HMMMMM. Something's up here!

And that's a nice way of saying that I'm scum.

I think you could be, yes.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Why should it be understandable?

From a gamestate perspective, your picking me to engage as a suspect here looks strange, but maybe it's because I'm here to reply to you and nobody else is active right now.

???

Because at the moment I'm in an unassailable town position - role corroborated and a claimed cop innocent on me with a tracker backing up that some sort of night action actually happened. My shelf life is short unless something massive happens to the game state, which I don't expect.

This is fair, though I don't know whether DV is fully caught up enough to have seen that yet? Maybe he is? I didn't mention it to him or anything.

Ffery plays with DV in game. DV has low presence and engagement for much of it and is mislynched.

Ffery was dead long before you were mislynched and that had nothing to do with her read (mostly Syr's read) of you in that game.

Ffery plays with DV in another game. DV starts off ok, but ends up having no presence or engagement and is mislynched.

A mislynch FFery wasn't in on, iirc. My head was mostly trying to sort the star-crosssed lovers situation for the latter half of that game.

I don't feel like these caveats should actually change anything?

Maybe not. But, his points are no reason to townread him either, and I would kinda like it if there were some decent and recent reasons to think you guys are town.

DV's points are part of the reason why I don't feel confident about reading him. It was a relief that you are part of the hydra, despite your scum game. :/

This is a read I'd totally defer to someone I think is town who has a track record of reading preferably both of you accurately.

If F-16 ever comes up for air I'd like his thoughts about this interaction.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Actually I guess he could have a night action.

Neighborizer?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

DV's points are part of the reason why I don't feel confident about reading him. It was a relief that you are part of the hydra, despite your scum game. :/

This is a read I'd totally defer to someone I think is town who has a track record of reading preferably both of you accurately.

You (if you're ffery) usually get me right given enough time, don't you? Maybe I just don't give you enough time when I'm scum.

Mmhm. Well, Nacho is being a dumb, so.[/quote]

Do I? Maybe? I don't really think I've had a stellar, strong read of you in any of our prior games. I'm predisposed to think you're scum, and usually wind up questioning that regardless of your alignment.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Maybe not. But, his points are no reason to townread him either, and I would kinda like it if there were some decent and recent reasons to think you guys are town.

DV's points are part of the reason why I don't feel confident about reading him. It was a relief that you are part of the hydra, despite your scum game. :/

This is a read I'd totally defer to someone I think is town who has a track record of reading preferably both of you accurately.

If F-16 ever comes up for air I'd like his thoughts about this interaction.

I am focusing mostly on DV since I'm pretty bad at reading Cephrir and am deferring the read to FT.

What I initially found concerning about DV was that his take on the interaction between Titan and I wasn't really illuminating or helpful. I tend to scumhunt questions other players ask me and seeing how they are making me respond, and my responses to DV pretty much amounted to "no, I meant this, not that" which felt like very surface level questioning. I also didn't like the focus on a long-resolved conflict and it gave off the air of wanting to continue the conflict by bringing up quotes said in the heat of the moment as opposed to asking what my current thoughts are.

As for the interaction with you, I liked the scumhunting of you when seen in a vacuum and I like the push as to why you were accusing him of not having a presence when he didn't have it in previous games as well. But, what I didn't like was the focus on scumhunting you in the first place considering you were confirmed by one of Fox's townreads (AP). I get JSU confirmed AP, and I didn't buy it either even though JSU is a strong townread but I feel that the circumstances are different and given Fox's view of the gamestate, he should be treating you as near-confirmed town and looking elsewhere.

From that perspective I liked it too - it's one of the few times DV has pushed anyone in this game that I can recall. It seems odd given his apparent understanding of the game state and opinion about the players involved in the claims, though. It may be that I'm mixing up Ceph and DV if they don't agree on AP, BroDesp and cupcakepanda.

I am not exactly sure what you are referring to with the noise benefiting The Fox and the Hound. I certainly didn't feel that the interaction between me and Titan was noise except for my initial shocked reaction and a few more posts after that. But once I returned and started interacting with Tammy more smoothly, I was able to solidify a read more firmly and I think she was able to as well and I wouldn't classify my later posts or any of Tammy's posts as noise but rather as productive and useful discussion. So, I am not sure why you consider it noise in the first place (save my initial reaction which I admit was noisy), let alone discuss how Ceph and DV are using it. I don't get your definition of "noise" since I feel like you enjoyed a lot of the noise in the game from Rancid while calling out other players on being noisy.

A lot of players reacted during that process, and I didn't find most of it useful for sorting any of them, and that's why I called it noise. You two sorting each other - not noise. Nacho trying to help you sort each other - not noise. Other people saying omg that's scummy, omg that's towny as spectators not so much.

Levity in a game, especially on day 1 is good for more reasons than just what it says about the player who is apparently relaxed and having fun. And I did both develop reads on mac and rancid from those interactions and felt like the game itself was more enjoyable for their back and forth.

I do think that the interactions between Mastin, Rancid, AP created a lot of noise and inflated the size of the day and FoxHound sort of flew under the radar there. However, I also like DV's latest catchup walls and it feels like he is genuinely trying to figure out the game. I've scheduled a more extensive meta-dive on DV that should hopefully make things clearer.

At the time I posted what DV objected to, those catchup walls weren't in the thread.

----

@ DV, if you have info that there are multiple roleblockers in the game, I think that makes a crucial difference in whether or not Katsuki is lynched today so you should definitely out it.

Agree, if DV thinks the info actually has bearing on the reasons for lynching/not lynching katsuki.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

CF, we have a neighborhood. I assume that was your doing!

AFAIK it's just Beli/Me in the Rebirth game, though.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

You might need to read 6117 again, unless DV has secretly noticed something else that he's not telling me.

Yeah I caught it later, thanks.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I can see your point, but that's pretty much how I feel about my reads south of "town". This has been a very difficult game that I hope is on its way to being solved now.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, I kinda recognize this Nacho from Walking Dead. Which was a game he emulated pretty well reads-wise early on in Marketplace 3.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I will be here and I will hold you to that.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

TICK TOCK MARA

:/

[Breakfast With Sandy]

[Breakfast With Sandy]

What were the EXACT claims

I remember AP had something about 3 people

I remember CF did something with neighborhood

I'm an amnesiac follower.

On night 1 i followed AP and sent the results to CF. The results CF eventually reported matched AP's reported results.

On night 2 i followed katsuki and sent the results to orcinus. I got back a message from the mod that my role explicitly failed on night 2.

There are reports that corroborate some of this.

And sorry but NOPE you don't get to disappear for a couple weeks and then come back and berate me about stale reads.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I actually do

and we all know why, ffery

pedit-

Hi there CF how are you

Brian was waiting for me to catchup so we could sync and that's when I got swamped

Tell me why then.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ffery I'll be blunt

I'm egotistical

All I have in mafia is this one central thought

I'm damn good at being obvtown

My reads go hot and cold

My scumgame sucks

But when I'm town

I'm blatantly town.

So you try to pass off a read going stale on me?

Come on.

pedit-

TOCK TICK MARA

That's all great and everything but the read does so go fucking stale. because one of the things you can't do as scum is maintain that veneer of towniness.

So, you can get back in here and be a beacon of towniness again and I'll be all ears. but weeks of not being present at all doesn't mean you coast on a page 2 read.

Most of the player list has been in the game slogging along through approaching 250 some pages worth of discussion.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

My role PM confirms that there is more than one cop because it says that we appear as a replica to "all" cops.

If both the claimed cops are town and sane (which I wonder if they are), then the scum need to have some serious power to counter them.

I imagine this isn't something confirmed from Cabd, right? Because although I agree that description suggests more than one cop, I wouldn't consider it confirmed.

Is insanity a possibility in this game? I haven't act.ually considered it up to now and just assumed it wasn't, but I usually play in normal or theme-light games.

PEdit: to be fair notscience it's not unreasonable to think that you'd be able to town it up temporarily as scum, at least imo.

s
Cabd has been quite emphatic that he won't lie to players in this game. That pretty much rules out all forms of investigative insanity other than (self-aware) miller or godfather type roles I think.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ffery, are you an adult?

Nope. I don't know the flavour at all, but per Ffery, our character is thirteen years old.

As to the lack of a kill, I'm thinking we have unclaimed power who protected someone obvtown.

We scanned DV and sent the results to JSU, but got no report

Also, Ffery got accidentally spoilered, so it's all me from now on; I'm going to keep on using this account to play this game though.

-Beli

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, we got a neighbourhood last night. We're sharing it with....*drum roll*

Nobody!

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Down to 11 players and I'm still having trouble keeping up ><

SoC:

I've hard townread everyone still alive at some point in this game, so my PoE isn't worth shitting on. I'm thinking at this point of voting amongst my stalest townreads, which wouls be {CF, F/H, Red Gyrados, PA}. Of those, Ffery was hard townreading PA at the time she had to leave.

I'm a bit uneasy on having the exact number of maybe-scum reads as there are scum. I should have more doubt about the remainder. With 4 in my lynchpool today, 5 in my hrai, and me = 10, the only person left out is Orci; I originally thought he was conftown for role-related reasons, but it was Orci who debunked that, and there's no scum motivation to do that and ample town motivation.

If there's scum in my hrai, I think it's PV, but I'd have initially missed JSU's clear of AP if PV hadn't reiterated it, and where's the scum motivation in doing that?

Soo....maybe swap PV out of my hrai in favour of Orci.

VOTE: Red Gyrados

Willing to take advice from the players in my hrai on vote-changing because hey look at me, I have unalloyed confidence in precisely buggerfuckeration.

I may get shitfaced and check back in this game later tonight, but I'm not confident enough in any flips to post in Kilrathi again. I know, so sad.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Beli, how are those townreads stale and not Nacho?

Nacho's push on Mastin pinged my towndar hard, but you and Fox haven't said anything that's given me any insight into your alignment lately.

Lots of words, words, words, but so little that's been helpful fmpov. Nothing, actually.

In your case, I had you in my townlist at least partially due to bias; after that JerryArr game, I really, really wanted you to be town so we could auto-win, and here we are one lynch away from xylo and zero scum down. Wish fulfilment reads don't make sense this close to endgame. Not when it's going to take a miracle or a genius to bring home a town win.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, people that are townreading Nacho are doing it wrong.

You don't see the passion behind Nacho's push on Mastin?

Do you have a link to a game where scumcho isn't more robotic than that?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Is it just me, or does anybody else think both Tammy and Nacho usually swear more than this as town?

/shit disturber

[Breakfast With Sandy]

maybe i'm turning over a new, cleaner leaf?
kids do play this game you know

What's a fuckass?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

OK, I lied about closing that shit disturber tag, TIME TO POKE THE BEAR(s)

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Damn! I was too slow to post "page grab" followed by this:

[Breakfast With Sandy]

So, uh, PV, it's the day before xylo probably. Where are those big guns I talked about D1?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Tammy, AP, F-16, Beli:

Do we have overlap anywhere in {penguin, magenta, foxhound, RG}? There should be someone in that group that all 5 of us have overlap on, and that's who we need to lynch today.

Yes. On RG and Fox/Hound, the former more than the latter.

Ffery trusted p_a and I'm sheeping that read for now due to how sure she sounded to me.

I still am bet-the-farm sure about townOrci.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'm provisionally OK with that right now, but I want to hear AP and Tammy's responses to BRO's query first, and see how Orci's current interaction with JSU pans out.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

What's the difference between a blonde and a 747?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

@AP : what about F/H, RG, and F-16?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Back and ready.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

UNVOTE:

Can I interest anyone in

VOTE: CarbonFiber

?

???

??????

I don't like how eager he's been to get a lynch on 3 different players in rapid succession and you shouldn't either.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Work with me and compromise and vote FH.

Sure!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fox and Hound

Does this mean I'm less suspicious? Nope! It means I think CF vs F+H is scum theatre.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Best favorite lynches today (in order):
Titan-Penguin-Magenta

Not a snowball's chance in Hell, vraxa'nah.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

P. S. Vraxa'nah means motherfucker.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I will catch up tonight, hopefully, but I'll be interested if anyone claims to have been blocked last night. >_>

I got No Result/Action Failed on CF; could be due to an invalid target as easily as a block, but my role PM doesn't explicitly mention any age/citizenship requirements for my targets, so I don't know.

I'm still leaning towards RG or F/H for the optimal lynch for today, but after Nacho's flip, I have to have a pretty hard think about whether magenta is as obvtown as I originally thought.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I got night action result messages nights one, two, and four. Nothing night 3 at all other than Ffery saying she'd been spoilered in our hydra QT.

Our role must have failed though, otherwise JSU would have got a result as well.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Back in action; I'm a citizen of Karegia.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Well, this got sewn up fast.

I guess Ffery was right about RG.

No, Tammy, there's no way in fuck you get lynched. Not one shot away from lylo, and I don't get where this "extra kill" shit is coming from. Something got buried. But if scum-p_a = extra kill because Tammy's alive, we solve the problem by lynching p_a. Otherwise we lynch between Fox and RG for a guaranteed scum kill either today or tomorrow.

After what just happened here in Moncton, I could use some scumblood.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Is it a good idea to put the hammer in the hand of a guy in a super-bloodthirsty mood?

LET'S FIND OUT!

VOTE: magenta_thegreat