A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Goat on a Raft]

Hello.

VOTE: StupendousMan

[Goat on a Raft]

UNVOTE: StupendousMan, VOTE: Cephrir

Cephrir could have joined kanye in getting the game started. He didn't.

[Goat on a Raft]

How dare Cephrir not jumpstart the game on page 1.

That's why we start the game with votes!

Sorry, Cephrir, but we are a united front.

[Goat on a Raft]

the important thing about this is that he realized what i was doing but for some reason veered off onto a completely innocuous cephrir??? thjats the root of my issue w. the goat

Saw what you were doing - and appreciated it, it gave you townpoints - but disagreed that it was worth a vote (and, unlike Cephrir, we had more posts to consider by that point). Cephrir came in, had to have seen that you were already creating an issue and, considering that town's goal early on is to do as much as possible to facilitate reads rather than prolong randomness, should have reacted to your vote but chose not to.

That's the thinking. It's thinking that doesn't catch scum as ofted as it deserves to, because lots of people don't think properly about what they should be doing as town, but it was a good place to start. Cephrir might be town after a couple of more recent posts, however - we're considering whether or not we want to keep our vote here.

[Goat on a Raft]

*often

[Goat on a Raft]

A vote on PrideandJoy probably would have been the most productive thing, but a "I don't think that's a reason to vote PrideandJoy" or similar would have sufficed. Our #6 put a second vote down for the same sort of reason.

[Goat on a Raft]

Had interpreted the below as an explicit denial of having a serious post restriction. Correct us if we're wrong, Andy:

------------

It's weird to think quadz is scummy for dropping something when it was pointed out to be based on a wrong assumption.

[Goat on a Raft]

Apologies, Alfred. At least one of our heads is liable to completely ignore posts over a certain length.

If you saw the PAJ wagon as a good thing, what do you think about chesskid's responses to the wagon?

Other head hasn't checked in with us on this yet but this head sees nothing it wouldn't expect from chesskid and has an overall townread on PAJ.

[Goat on a Raft]

Garruk Relentless, do you still think your vote is in the right place?

[Goat on a Raft]

Also, yeah, Alfred is all sorts of right about quadz being town, in case our read wasn't clear enough.

[Goat on a Raft]

We're town.

[Goat on a Raft]

It seems a waste to vote someone if you can't even pretend to believe in it while pressured.

Can't tell exactly what part you're complaining about but it comes down to a theory thing and you're wrong about it so yah-boo-sucks.

Also, yeah, Alfred is all sorts of right about quadz being town, in case our read wasn't clear enough.

Why is that?

The reason we said "Alfred is right" specifically is because he hit the nail on the head in #353.

[Goat on a Raft]

UNVOTE: Cephrir
VOTE: ooba

For the time being - may change when other head checks in.

[Goat on a Raft]

Yeah, we're working on it.

[Goat on a Raft]

No need to be sarky.

[Goat on a Raft]

Amrun is right. The claim is not weird.

[Goat on a Raft]

Benmage, this is painful. Please stop.

[Goat on a Raft]

3) is so utterly irrelevant to the game that to use it as part of a handy framework for pushing your Thor suspicion is disingenuous. Tell me, do you think it's a natural thought process as scum to go "hey, I'll claim miller ... ooh, and I think I could make myself look townier by incorrectly claiming that nobody will lynch me because of site meta"? For your theory to have any basis in scumhunting, that has to be the question, and the answer is obviously no.

Meanwhile, newsflash: Every time you whine about how much better at everyone else at this game you are, this is what I read:

ZDENEK is now immune from being lynched for today. Should he reach majority you will default to no lynch.

And even if you were saying something of useful scumhunting value, good luck getting anyone to pay attention to it while you're acting so aggressively superior.

[Goat on a Raft]

In other news, this head is waiting on the other to get caught up with large portions of the thread. Currently we have a bunch of townreads but no strong scumpings, plus a couple of people this head is assuming will be readable with just a little more time. Sheeping some of those townreads at the moment.

[Goat on a Raft]

The point you take from that should not be "THEREFORE GOAT THINKS THOR INCORRECTLY CLAIMED META FOR TOWN REASONS", it should be "therefore Thor must genuinely believe what he's saying about site meta because there is no reason for either alignment to attempt to hoodwink an entire game with made-up site meta". At best, you have found an idiot. Most likely, you have found someone who has played in different games to you and got his own impression of what happens here.

For someone so interested in site meta and history, consider personal meta and history. I haven't played in that many games with Thor but I can tell you for sure the humour is just Thor being Thor. It's not a towntell or a scumtell. How right or wrong he is about meta is neither a towntell nor a scumtell.

I don't even know what the vigging thing is about but, if you're offering yourself as a target, please carry on.

PEDIT: PeaceBringer, that's a mod quote from a different game, in which Benmage thought he was amazing and wasn't. Apologies for the confusion.

[Goat on a Raft]

So now we're up to the stage of "well, it

could

be a gambit, therefore it is". You're saying that behaviour which is normal for him, which he is either doing genuinely in this game or done a fine impression of him doing genuinely in this game, is a reason to lynch him. If you want to lynch him solely because he claimed miller, just say as much.

[Goat on a Raft]

***Everyone

mocked DGB for attacking Cow for *spread arms wide*... now who are the morons?

My point is not that you're a special kind of moron. My point is that you're just as much of a moron as the rest of us so kindly get down off your high horse.

[Goat on a Raft]

Me getting angry probably isn't going to help anything any more, I guess. My point is made, you can keep shouting about this if you like but it's not going anywhere with the case as is (not that it couldn't if Thor gets scummier; I don't have a read either way yet). I'll go away and calm down and work on some damn scumreads.

Yours in citrus.

[Goat on a Raft]

Site isn't letting us change our avatar at the moment and I spent a full four minutes on these

[Goat on a Raft]

I'd say they feel vaguely uncomfortable and haven't been as strong a presence in the thread but nothing substantial.

With 24 players alive, this is to be expected. This head rarely plays large games for a reason.

What are your townreads and why?

1. Alfred - there was a reason for this but it was early in the thread and I forget the specifics. Bet it was a really ace reason.
2. Cephrir (probably) - liked the way he joined the Elle wagon.
3. elleheathen (probably) - again, there was a reason but I forgot. This is pretty much how I'm going to approach it with this many alive - file away townreads to be dealt with later and just get on with it unless something makes me sit up and re-evaluate.
4. Garruk - I thought the "if I were a speculating type" thing in 403 came across as genuine.
5. Kanye - 100% both-heads-approved legit townread. Fact.
6. Nautilus - There may have been another thing that I didn't write down but at least part of it is the fact that when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me he's usually town.
7. PeaceBringer (maybe) - That's all I got (and I only noted that last night. well done me)
8. PrideandJoy - Might reconsider this, had Dantown vibes but, on quick ISO-skim to see if I could remember anything specific, I found out chesskid may have been posting more than I thought he was. We'll see, I guess.
9. quadz - already discussed
10. Tammy - Looks different to Red Wedding, carefree.
11. Tierce - I *think* looks different to Red Wedding, also sheeping people who know better than me.

Also, Amrun was one of those I was waiting on and assuming that I'd get a read eventually and I

think

she's just done enough to make me settle on town. But maybe don't quote me on that just yet.

So we're narrowing it down. Now please imagine all of the first-person identification in this post was using "we" because I enjoy the unattainable mystery of it being hard to tell which of us is posting.

[Goat on a Raft]

Why bother posting a reads list if it's going to be stack of waffles?

We were asked. Considered doing it more briefly or not at all but decided there was no harm in it.

[Goat on a Raft]

Nacho, when we say "when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me, he's town", that's not to say "Nacho never correctly reads me". To be pedantic, technically you haven't produced an example that contradicts our statement but it's OK, we forgive you (and, like we say, there may well have been another reason why we put you down as town, just that we forgot what it was).

Believe you and me, this head is a little bummed that we're not picking up good scumreads that we can really attack. Initially there was a reluctance to push the boat out because our other head wasn't really caught up but at some point this head decided to just go for it but, er, still nothing. Trust us, when we find something we like, we'll go for it, and we're still looking because it is actually pretty boring to not have a vote we really care about at the moment. But for now we're getting townreads that stick out so we'll keep narrowing it down that way. There are probably meta examples of this sort of thing happening before somewhere but we can't be arsed to find them.

[Goat on a Raft]

By the way, Nautilus, what is your read on mollie?

[Goat on a Raft]

Er, WTF? Mollie, this head has played with you once. What were you expecting from us exactly?

[Goat on a Raft]

I can't tell what Goat on a Raft is trying to accomplish on page 24.

After following a few pages of Benmage (a player who, historically, has annoyed this head) banging his drum so ridiculously, we just wanted it to end. We weren't trying to be antagonistic, but we did a poor job of keeping this head's annoyance at his attitude out of it.

[Goat on a Raft]

Er, WTF? Mollie, this head has played with you once. What were you expecting from us exactly?

flowers. a poem. something.

I suppose it could be argued that skype is a different medium but I would think that for cdb it would be easier not harder.

Skype experience definitely is helpful for this head in reading people but to a much lesser degree than actual face-to-face experience - and, compared to some, this head hasn't played Skype mafia with you all that often, certainly not enough to develop a really natural understanding of your play. Red Wedding Mafia is of more use to us than that body of experience, probably, but it's just one game. This head has had just the occasional tweak of scumdar where you don't feel quite the same as you did in that game, which prompted us to ask Nautilus for their input (which we're happy to go along with for now) - but, mind you, you realised CDB was town in that game a lot earlier than the other way around.

A poem, however, can be arranged.

There once was a player called mollie
Who treated capitals as does TheTrollie
She wrongly scumread the goat
But if she reconsidered her vote
The pair of them would get along beautifully

[Goat on a Raft]

If you say that last line while tripping over, it rhymes.

[Goat on a Raft]

Putting Benmage and macmollie on the 'town for today' list and now going back to read from the start with a narrowed-down list of vote candidates to see if we can spot anything.

[Goat on a Raft]

Do people have Shadoweh townreads? This head hasn't played with her very often but she seems like the sort of player who certain people might have a good record of reading.

[Goat on a Raft]

The implication there is that she's the sort of player who this head can't read very well, so yes we kind of do.

[Goat on a Raft]

Zdenek and ooba also go into the town pile.

----

BEHOLD, A SCUMREAD!

UNVOTE: ooba
VOTE: StupdendousMan

[Goat on a Raft]

elleheathen is town

This seemed like a flat-out unhelpful position for scum to take at the time. Also, #338 seems to show some thinking. This head is a little taken with his Shadoweh scumread, too.

[Goat on a Raft]

The thing about the 10-person scumlist is irrelevant, IOHO. It's misguided rather than malicious.

What convinced us to vote were these:

Post #81 comes in after a lot of talk and ignores it all.

Post #292 comes in shortly after Shadoweh's quadz vote and noncommittally joins it - and describing quadz's vote/unvote as "awkward" doesn't look to us like someone actually interested in

why

he did those things, just that they happened and might look weird.

Post 370 and Post 374 see him really concerned about his image.

And this is exactly the sort of nitpicky question that scum like to ask because it's contribution where their work is kind of already done for them.

[Goat on a Raft]

also caring why someone did something.

Uh, what? Where?

[Goat on a Raft]

Oh, and Amrun is in our 'town for today' pile for general seems-about-right meta vibe feelings.

[Goat on a Raft]

Oh, sure, but only because the setup was already conveniently there from Zdenek's language, which is pretty benign. It's a harmless, no-cost question and one that I don't think requires any level of actually caring about the answer to ask (indeed, the fact that we can see him not caring earlier implies that he still doesn't care this time, he just wanted to be seen to ask).

Mollie: Seriously, we're not scum.

[Goat on a Raft]

So you think he's scum capable of asking lazy interest questions, but was unable to ask lazy interest questions in his first push...I dunno, that still feels ganky to me.
I agree with you that both individual moments can be looked upon as scummy, but I feel the combination of them weakens the overall scum case.
Basically, he is either a scum who will do lazy questions, or a scum who won't care to ask questions...the combo...feels forced. If he is scum I don't think he's scum for the case you're pushing there and it feels like you're trying to overamp the case because you're scum, or it feels like you're town who has started to tunnel.
Want to try to adjust either of those or explain why I'm wrong here?

Hmm, that's an interesting way of looking at it and you may have a point. This head developed the read by reading through the game from the start and noting down individual posts that appeared scummy - it's possible that, in seeing two notes about Stupendous posts when we were done, we have assumed that they can coexist as scumtells.

And we were so pleased to finally have a legit scumread...

[Goat on a Raft]

Let's try:

UNVOTE: StupendousMan
VOTE: SafetyDance

[Goat on a Raft]

This head didn't read the final few pages of the thread in full, switching to iso when we thought we might be voting Stupendous, so didn't get as far as reading your case. And yes, it turns out we saw similar things. However, we think Thor has a point (and the part in which he poked a hole was, this head feels, the most important part of the case).

Now we have got quite a lot of names in our 'town for today' pile now and SafetyDance is one of the only ones left. At this point we feel the game needs a good wagon and SafetyDance will do.

Also, get an avatar, it makes your cases more likely to stick in the memory (seriously).

[Goat on a Raft]

Well done, Empire!

[Goat on a Raft]

goat people - I do not even remotely want this to be true but he is scum I am pretty sure of it and it makes me want to cry. strongest scumread

I'm also growing more paranoid of Goat; I think I may be unintentionally giving them a pass because CDB is the Coolest Dude.

i think no matter what goat posts anymore im gonna be reading it as scum, no matter how objectively solid it is. its 1 of those reads i dont want to have but its gonna fester like fuck and color my judgments on him for a long time 2 come.

Right, this is getting ridiculous. If

anyone

would like to explain why we're more likely to be scum than town, please feel free, so that we may point out that you are wrong because

come on, guys

.

If you have a problem with our not having strong scumreads, wake up. We are 43 pages into the game, with 24 voters voting for 12 people. The largest wagon has four votes.

There are no obvious scum.

We are wagoning someone not in our now-quite-extensive list of townreads and you can all fucking deal with it.

[Goat on a Raft]

@Goat - if you want a good wagon, the Amrun one is right here for you. Why avoid it in favor of Safety?

Also, Amrun was one of those I was waiting on and assuming that I'd get a read eventually and I

think

she's just done enough to make me settle on town. But maybe don't quote me on that just yet.

Amrun is in the 'town for today' pile.

[Goat on a Raft]

@ Goat: I didn't like either of your votes on Stup or SafetyDance. Pretty sure I said as much as it was happening. Why didn't that didn't factor into your "WHY US?" routine?

We factored it into our immediate reply to you instead. If you ever want to explain why you think we were more likely to make those votes as scum than town, we'll be happy to point out that you're wrong.

[Goat on a Raft]

cos I am pretty sure that they have been around but are ignoring the game for some reason.

[Goat on a Raft]

ooba is ostensibly (but weakly) in the town-for-today pile but we're at 53 gorram pages and this head would very much like some flips.

UNVOTE: SafetyDance
VOTE: ooba

[Goat on a Raft]

DeliGoat: Where's the lemon?

Real life is kicking his zesty yellow arse. This head is flying solo for the time being.

[Goat on a Raft]

claiming stup

was his only scumread

is quite frankly shit for two pretty competent players.

Your point being?

[Goat on a Raft]

OK read up now, sorry it took so long but that was a lotalot of words to read

VOTE: goat

for voting a townread because 'flips are needed' when a null read of his also has a viable wagon

8 > 4

What do you think about ooba?
What do you think about Thor?
What do you think about ... you get the picture.

[Goat on a Raft]

the irony of this post is most astounding

Sure, it's a direct parallel.

[Goat on a Raft]

We've reached out before. Now we're just annoyed at you for continuing to find any reason you can to feed this scumread, which clearly boils down to the fact that this head had scumreads earlier on in the Red Wedding game than he has here, which you have interpreted in the most knuckle-grindingly opaque way possible. Kindly take your read and stuff it.

[Goat on a Raft]

YEP.

[Goat on a Raft]

Essays are not necessary. You don't have to write an essay to state opinions on major game issues, however.

In other news, please get an avatar.

FUCK, THIS HEAD WAS DOING SO WELL

[Goat on a Raft]

I think that's this head's cue to drop offline for a bit. Back later tonight. If a boulder were to roll through down, squash a random player and take us to night before that happens, we wouldn't complain.

[Goat on a Raft]

This head was about to express support for Zdenek's Amrun vote but then noticed the thing above about sort-of retroactive V/LA. We'll see what happens when she catches up.

[Goat on a Raft]

so why didn't you help thor and I out by voting her before she went on v/la?

Because that was before, time has passed, Zdenek put it more succinctly than you or, particularly, Thor has done and his pointing it out when he did helped us realise how long it had been since Amrun had done anything town. We then spotted the post at the top of the page.

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE MOLLIE IS CONFIRMATION BIASED UP THE WAZOO

[Goat on a Raft]

Thor: "putting it succinctly" requires something to be "put". His actual vote, sure, it's short. His explanations are in big piles of Thorness, most of which are over this head's personal can-I-be-arsed-to-read-it post length.

Similarly, you've barely said anything about Amrun. What there was, we've ignored, because you are frustrating us.

Are we going a little bit too far here defending what's basically just poor word choice when we should have just said that we didn't ever notice a good Amrun vote or explanation at the times when they were made? Yes. Can we be arsed to backspace? No. It's 1am, we were trying to go to bed way earlier than this. Deal with it.

[Goat on a Raft]

Ordinarily, we'd be pretty happy for you to see our flip and eat a huge fucking all-you-can-eat humble buffet but we're too excited about playing in this game to be keen on dying just yet. It would actually be less annoying if you were scum, but we don't think you are.

[Goat on a Raft]

Hi guys, apologies for this head's inactivity over the weekend. It was sitewide.

Will aim to get caught up later today but it'll be in between birthday cake so, if this head gets distracted, that'll be why.

[Goat on a Raft]

We have a slight townread on ooba, mitigated by people we think are town being more convinced of his scumminess.
We have no idea how to read Thor.
We think SafetyDance's reaction over the past few days is annoying but probably more likely to come from town than scum.
We have a townread on Garruk.

Thor > ooba > SafetyDance > Garruk

UNVOTE: ooba
VOTE: Thor

[Goat on a Raft]

Hear us!

As of right now, there are six players alive who do not have the town wincon.

Also SCREW YOU GUYS WE WANTED FLIPS. GLORIOUS FLIPS.

VOTE: Amrun

[Goat on a Raft]

For people who are better than me at setup spec, what does this mean for multiball vs. single scum team?

This head thinks that it would most likely indicate one main scum team plus one or two oddballs/independents, but two threes isn't

completely

out of the question. Presumably our obtaining this information was likely enough that the mod may have wanted to screw with our expectations about it somehow.

[Goat on a Raft]

With having no deaths last night though, do you think it's likely to be more than one though?

We can think of plenty enough possible variables for that to be plausible.

[Goat on a Raft]

This was a stronger response than I expected.

It was pretty much what your post deserved. Voting Amrun 'for lurking' would be dumb.

[Goat on a Raft]

Why are you voting Amrun?

Given that her unavailability had obscured the limited read we already had on Amrun on Day 1, this head decided that she might be more readable if she came in today with votes. So far, signs are promising. This head is going to trawl around the last few pages now and find a more interesting place to put our vote.

[Goat on a Raft]

UNVOTE: Amrun
VOTE: elleheathen

Of those on the Thor wagon, she looks most like someone who already knew that he was town.

[Goat on a Raft]

I wish I could ISO 13 people in 6 minutes.

1) This head started its look back with no current scumreads from the Thor wagon because, hey, we'd already have said something if anyone had already looked like somone who knew Thor would flip town.
2) Reading back, we get back to rereading #1761 (having seen a few other Thor voters around the end of the day whose positions looked fine). It prompts us to read all mentions of Thor in elle's iso.
3) We trust that our interpretations from before were still largely good, apart from this thing we didn't notice at the time (length of post an issue, this head pretty much skipped over it when first posted).

While we accept that the process 2->3 might recommend us to then re-examine

everyone

for other stuff we might have missed in order to make such a clean statement as #1964, we're just going to go ahead and run with the thing we found.

[Goat on a Raft]

I don't like Goat's vote on elle because she definitely thought Thor was scum the whole time and her persistence was very town.

Disagree.

[Goat on a Raft]

Btw: Aware that burden of evidence is on us, not Stupe or anyone else, and will follow up with a highlighting of the things that made us think this - but, with the time of evening it is and the amount of energy this head has, "disagree" is going to be about as far as we get for tonight. We'd like people to have a look at her ISO and see if you see similar signs, though, even if you hold back your thoughts until we've posted more of a case.

[Goat on a Raft]

Jesus, Benmage, we saw it the first time.

[Goat on a Raft]

Yarr!

[Goat on a Raft]

No, mollie. We aren't.

[Goat on a Raft]

Look, obviously we want to give you the "strong signals" that you mention in #794. This head is sitting here, trying to figure out what it is you want us to do that would show you that. We don't want to be figuring out how to drop towntells for you because that shouldn't be the point but it is beyond irritating when you drop in after every bloody thing we say and see scum from it because you've confirmation-biased yourself six ways from Sunday over a huge impression you wanted earlier but didn't get. It is distracting and off-putting, made worse by the fact that we've got a pretty strong townread on you so we're pretty sure it's an example of mega-silliness - of which, as established on Skype, you are capable, if not outright prone - rather than a malicious attempt to get a mislynch off us.

If you want us to change our avatar for 24 hours so you can look at us slightly more freshly when you actually consider what we're doing, let us know. If you would like to tell us why we'd claim the results we claimed Today as scum, let us know (because, duh, we wouldn't).

[Goat on a Raft]

As promised, detail on elle tomorrow. Links, quotes, all that jazz. Just hanging around at the moment and not in the mood for more.

[Goat on a Raft]

Also, to note regarding the Alchemist - http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Ent ... in_Oldtown. Murderer of Pate, probably Jaqen H'Gar. Not sure what that means here, but figured I'd share it just in case someone has a bright idea.

Oh, yeah, we assumed ever since The Alchemist popped up that Syryana is "disappeared" in that we just won't ever find a body. We're not expecting to hear from him ever again, though Jaqen/whoever who did it could be either alignment.

Next: elleheathen!

[Goat on a Raft]

The post that tipped us off

Going back to the end of Day 1, this head was looking for people who knew Thor would flip town before he did. This section caught our eye:

I think he's scum but at this point, even if he's not at least we have

1)His claim
2)His final reads
3)And the best vca analysis we're going to get

The worst case scenario is we lose a miller that would have to be lynched at some point anyway.

It reminded us of the kind of bargaining that we tend to do as scum in order to negotiate ourselves a cheap mislynch. It's frustrating because we know that it sounds reasonable but, anecdotally, this head is sure that he sees this more often from scum than town.

So, prompted by this, we iso'd elleheathen and ctrl+f'd "Thor".

This vote on him comes after a period where elle has accepted that her previous arguments were about a point that was really moot (nameclaim affecting her read of his millerness). The reasons presented afterwards are really spurious, largely based on personality and hypotheticals ('It'd be a good gambit if he were scum', 'he doesn't have to be town', 'I can't trust sarcastic people').

To her credit, she admits it's spurious later, but her scumread later increases in intensity for not really anything more than she'd already said. This post doesn't make a lot of sense for someone who's already admitted that her reasons for thinking Thor is scum are pretty weak and that her vote is mostly gut; if you know your case, such as it is, is not very good, you should expect it to be belittled and downplayed.

Through all of his her focus is very largely on Thor, there's not a lot of talk or digging on anyone else. It adds up to a feeling that elle is most comfortable arguing hypotheticals, practicalities and gut about Thor than anything else. It's the easy way to look busy.

[Goat on a Raft]

I don't like 1956 from Nautilius at all. Reads like fear from scum-Nacho who

reeeeally

wants people to believe he's town.

That does seem weird. From this head's experience, Nacho does not actually have to do all that much to get townreads. #1956 feels exaggerated, and could well be because he feels naturally less likely to be townread in this game.

[Goat on a Raft]

@GOATSEE: that's the same post that lend me to mockingly insult Elle about compiling 2) + 3).

We did note that. We're prepared to believe that VCA would not necessarily be intended for today, though, rather for later - especially with no other flips from the night.

[Goat on a Raft]

@Goat

since you're here:
In post 43, you vote Cephir because he could have joined the game with kanye by voting PnJ but didn't in post 11. However, Garruk is probably more guilty of the reason you posted since they didn't vote PnJ after specifically being asked to by kanye in post 14.
Why this selective tunnel on Cephir?

Because Cephrir did it first. While this head believes that not making every effort to get out of RVS immediately

should

be a scumtell, it is not yet a widespread enough commitment on this site for it to be a practical scumtell. It is more useful to vote somebody for such a reason, however, than for none at all, so when we checked the thread after #6, we knew we wanted to do something better with our vote. With nothing more usefully scummy from the previous 42 posts, however, we decided that having a go at the first person to behave suboptimally would at least be more likely to create something than our previous vote on Stupe. So we simply read the thread from the start and found Cephrir to be the first person eligible for such a vote. Singling out one person is more likely to get a reaction from them than if we highlight every single person who did not help us rush forward in the first 40 posts, because we could have cited several and there would have been less chance of an impact.

We're sure there's a less verbose way of saying all that but couldn't quite hit upon it. Let us know if it doesn't make sense.

[Goat on a Raft]

Prod received; this evening is set aside for mafia so you'll be hearing from this head shortly.

[Goat on a Raft]

The Spyrex vote is pretty great and we're-a let you finish but Agar made one of the scummiest moves onto the Amrun quickwagon of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Let her post the damn content and then judge. Sheesh.

It is now after 1:30 AM Eastern Time Wednesday (last I knew she was EST/borderline-possibly-CST, so after 12:30 AM Wednesday). She promised us content on Tuesday - said she was spending an ENTIRE DAY to get caught up and give us content. She has posted 9 times since midnight Tuesday -- 6 times after 8 PM Eastern, if you want to discount the times she posted prior to saying she was gonna sleep. 6 posts, no content. No reads. 1 status update, 2 questions with regards to Kanye, and 3 posts complaining.

No reads.

Again, she was devoting supposedly an entire day to this. Supposedly.

She's casted votes as recently as this day phase, even though she wasn't fully caught up. At most, she's what - 20 pages behind? 30 if we're being generous. It doesn't take 24 entire hours to read 30 pages. I caught up on 45-50 on a dry read in 24 hours with a job and, honestly speaking, making time to just bullshit and hangout for several hours with my friends in the midst of that. I didn't sit in front of my computer for straight sessions and I still got caught up faster than she did with no base layer to build off of. She has one, or she's been casting absolute bullshit votes. Stringing her up isn't an entirely bad idea.

L-2 is an entirely reasonable point to have her at by now.

L-1 is even better.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun

It takes a body of mafia experience so, so much smaller than Agar's to get that this isn't behaviour more likely to come from scum than town. People get awkward around big catch-ups all the fucking time as both alignments. This head's jaw hit the floor when reading this post. This cannot be real conviction. It cannot be.

VOTE: AGar

[Goat on a Raft]

Oh right... But then again, that doesn't account for 3rd party.

Yes, it does.

[Goat on a Raft]

Fuck it. We can do both, let's do both.

Vote: Spyrex

[Goat on a Raft]

I don't see the scum motivation in that vote.

Activity is one of the best reasons to vote somebody as scum because not posting is objectively A Bad Thing, and you can do that to make it a practical-looking vote rather than a really involved one ('Amrun promised content and didn't post content' is so robotic, it involves no risks whatsoever). People promise shit and don't deliver

all the time

, and in our experience there is sod-all alignment correlation. Add it onto the fact that he's jumping onto a wagon moving alarmingly quickly and it looks scummy as all hell to us.

[Goat on a Raft]

Why did you wait to use this ability?

We decided that we would wait in order to avoid giving scum a reason to nightkill us early on, given that the ability could be pretty useful and we're pretty keen on being alive (for this head at least, it would suck if we died before the numbers thinned out a bit). If one of us had been around late Yesterday like we'd meant to/before a lynch happened, it's possible we'd have decided to break it out then. On the other hand, we might have waited longer if we had had more scumflips before Today.

Having not been online when the Amrun lynch happened, we came into Today with fresh deathrage towards both Agar and Spyrex. The urge to whip it out became overwhelming. We're out, we're proud, we have two votes. LOCK 'N' LOAD.

[Goat on a Raft]

Goat, do you agree or disagree that Naut is scum?

Closer to agreeing than disagreeing. As previously stated, we can see where quadz is coming from when he mentions Nacho's talking about looking town. However, Agar, Spyrex and elle are all stronger reads for us and we don't have any more votes to reveal.

[Goat on a Raft]

See, from a scum PoV... I don't see a double voter as being very powerful, especially in early days when they're most certainly aiming for stronger PRs. So for me... it raises some questionmarks.

Eh, possibly. For one thing, though, we wanted to be sure that we would survive at least Night 1 so as to take our census (which is a pretty strong power in our opinion). No reason to give scum any more visible reason to off us immediately.

There's ego, too. "HEY, CHECK OUT HOW COOL OUR ROLE IS!" "YEAH, IT'S ACE!" "I HOPE WE DON'T GET KILLED BEFORE WE REALLY GET TO FLEX OUR MUSCLES WITH IT!" "DAMN STRAIGHT!" This head suspects that everyone in this game thinks that their role is the coolest.

Can you double vote the same person?

If we could do that, we already would be.

[Goat on a Raft]

I believe your ability is just Faraday messing with you.

Due to :reasons: we're pretty sure that this is the case.

[Goat on a Raft]

Goat - You started off day two saying there were six anti-town roles. Can you tell me a little bit about how your role works? I'm not asking you to claim or anything but I'm trying to work out something. Do you have an informed role or did you say do a mass target night one to get your results?

We have a one-shot ability, which we used on Night 1, to find out how many people are alive who do not possess the town wincon. Mod confirmed to us that it was accurate as of the thread being unlocked.

[Goat on a Raft]

Why vote a slot that cannot answer back?

This seems like the sort of reason you'd make up after the fact to justify something when called out. We don't see why you'd not want to vote a strong scumread who's being replaced.

[Goat on a Raft]

We got prodded; apologies. Part of this is due to the fact that we're pretty sure our votes are in the two best places right now, but more later.

[Goat on a Raft]

It has been a very busy day for this head. Words coming tomorrow.

[Goat on a Raft]

Checking in again. Been busy again and, apologies:

Mod:

Please consider us V/LA for the weekend.

Going over the last couple of pages now.

[Goat on a Raft]

From the posts/parts of posts that were short enough for this head to bother reading: Prefer Agar lynch to Spyrex. Quadz townread has been renewed, even though the current stage of this head's flip-flop read on Nautilus is slightly town. This head is ever so very slightly bugged by Zdenek's townread on us looking a bit like scum who's disappointed that they can't really justify a faked read anymore, but this head

always

mistakenly scumreads Zdenek so who knows. We have always felt that Garruk is town and still feel so. Stupe looks townish.

SafetyDance, why aren't you voting for anyone? You seem to have plenty of scumreads.

[Goat on a Raft]

Goat, what do you think of Shadoweh?

This head really struggles to read Shadoweh. At the moment she's filed under "ehhhhh ... wait until more people die to figure this one out".

In other news,

Unvote: Spyrex
Vote: elleheathen

[Goat on a Raft]

Prodded immediately after end of V/LA We're still here, catching up this evening.

[Goat on a Raft]

Catchup ahoy...

[Goat on a Raft]

In other news,
Unvote: Spyrex
Vote: elleheathen

Why?

Combination of still thinking elle is scum from before but a growing sense that people are holding her as a general scumread without acting on it. Spyrex wagon is alright but ... how can we put this ... without nuance.

[Goat on a Raft]

still thinking elle is scum from before but a growing sense that people are holding her as a general scumread without acting on it

To add to this, the Zdenek wagon feels like a rough opposite of this - feels a bit convenient. This head is not a fan of Shadoweh's vote on him but still has a few pages to read before giving views on the whole wagon to date (currently at top of 100).

[Goat on a Raft]

That wasn't really as interesting as we hoped.

Spyrex's recent posts look slightly townier (although maybe it's just the flattery talking, his attitude towards us strikes this head as town-leaning).

Elle has dropped off

so hard

after the Thor lynch; our scumread has only got stronger and we really think that more people should be voting for her.

Alchemist looks more and more likely to be scum.

Kanye townread continues.

[Goat on a Raft]

Your catchup post makes me feel better about the read I have on your slot!

[Goat on a Raft]

you're scum as fuck =]
mollie was completely right about you!

When and why did you change your mind on us? Why does the gif solidify it?

[Goat on a Raft]

UNVOTE: Agar
VOTE: The Alchemist

[Goat on a Raft]

Obligatory 'we still think Agar is scum but, of our two current votes, the one we are moving to wants Agar dead more so let's be petty' disclaimer

[Goat on a Raft]

I... hate... Ferengi.

[Goat on a Raft]

I changed my mind on them a little while ago, and I explained why and everything. I don't think that they're obvious town anymore so you should probably run me back through your read of them, Tierce.

You didn't explain why we're "totally scum", just why you apparently couldn't call us town anymore. You haven't really commented on our actual play at all, explained why we're more likely scum than town, and it seems weird that you could seem so sure before and not now even if you suddenly decided that our declaration of a census is null (and, also, can you explain why it's null? Because we definitely wouldn't have said anything if we were a scum census taker. We'd have either had to seriously clue in the town [we wouldn't want to do that, even to be seen as a census taker] or give a wrong census [which could potentially bite us in the arse]).

[Goat on a Raft]

Syry's approach makes this head angry but he's not the right vote anymore.

UNVOTE: The Alchemist
VOTE: SpyreX

Still prefer an elleheathen death over anyone, still would be happy with an Agar lynch as well.

[Goat on a Raft]

what did you think of my elle-spyrex case?

This head prefers not to look for buddy connections until there's a flipped scum but your reasoning is fine and we're mainly just pleased to see people agreeing with us on elle.

[Goat on a Raft]

A girl should give a man his own name.

[Goat on a Raft]

OK, we probably aren't going to be around when deadline hits so we'll check over everything now and leave our votes in the most appropriate places.

[Goat on a Raft]

Righty-o. We don't want a man dead today and we're pretty OK with Tierce giving a man a name (although we'd be happiest if the name was a man's own). This head thinks Zdenek is a pretty lame default vote supported by two of our strongest scumreads so we are officially /out of that. Benmage is a terrible place for a vote right now and PrideandJoy really should be doing better than that; this head can't remember why they're voting for him but there's no way it's not dumb so shape up, fellas.

Which means that our votes are in the right place. In case we're not here tomorrow: For the love of god, exterminate elleheathen. Please.

[Goat on a Raft]

VOTE: elleheathen

We'll figure out where to put the other one later.

[Goat on a Raft]

Titus, appreciating that you've just replaced into a long-ass game, but if we were in your position we'd be pretty sure that the question of "well, uh, guys, is it so wrong to vote for a claimed miller" might well have been addressed at some point in the preceding 125 pages and multiple elle votes. Iso anyone voting for elle and ctrl+f 'Thor' or 'miller', the answers will be there.

That said, this head thinks that it can read Titus pretty well - in that it notices quickly when he's scum - and so far the impression is 'not scum'. Which is where we were before.

Waiting for SafetyDance and blah blah etc but seriously kill elle with fire.

[Goat on a Raft]

This head is here, assuming t'other hasn't posted in its absence, much apologies for dropping off. Crazy couple of days. Catching up today.

[Goat on a Raft]

That was a weird fucking catch-up. On the plus side: This post is infused with the combined reads of both heads!

Elle's claim makes her likely town, which is infuriating but them's the breaks. We're pretty mad at her for permablocking Tierce but whatever. We'll try to move on.

Quadz's recent attitude looks disappointly like what we'd expect from scum who's kind of been found out and is hoping that the confusion around SafetyDance (which is solved with the simple answer of 'he used the wrong word somewhere', which is not scum-exclusive behaviour) will buy him another day before his inevitable demise. He probably has to go.

Maybe this head missed it in reading a bunch of pages at once but, Agar, why does Titus have to go before quadz? Really not seeing that at all as an obvious priority. That said, the other head thinks Titus is scum, so he's in our 'acceptable lynch' pile. Joining him and quadz there are Alfred, Messiah and Shadoweh in no particular order (mainly for POE), but quadz is pretty obviously a much bigger priority than them.

UNVOTE: elleheathen
VOTE: quadz

[Goat on a Raft]

FAAAAAAAAAAAKIN ELL

THIS HEAD IS NOW HERE AND DRUNK AS ALL FUCK

SO TITUS
PREPARE YOUR ASSHOLE

FOR I AM ABOUT TO PENETRATE IT WITH THE VOTE OF TRUE JUSTICE

SECOND FUCKIN BLUE SHIT VOTE: TITUS

[Goat on a Raft]

QUADZ IS FUCIIN SCUM

and so is TITTIEUS

Alfred, MESSIAH and fuckin SHADOWFEH ar prob the buddies

[Goat on a Raft]

BITCHES IT'S ONLY TAKEN ME 139 PAGES TO FUCKN POST

NOW I BET YOU WISH THIS HEAD WAS FUCKIN BURIED UNDER THE SAND

KANYE BACK ME UP
GIMME A FUCKIN AMEN

[Goat on a Raft]

COME AT ME BROES

[Goat on a Raft]

PS THIS IS CDB AVOX HAS BEEN A FAAAKIN TROOPER POSTIN FOR OUR ACCOUNT FOR FAAKIN AGES

LOL JUST KIDDIN THIS IS AV I AM A BELLEND

[Goat on a Raft]

Where you all at bitches? NO ONE DARES FACE THE FAAAKIN GOAT?!

We are so town your prostate should ache with it.

[Goat on a Raft]

CEPHIR is probably super town but he's sooooooo wrong it's actually hilarious

[Goat on a Raft]

TITUS COME AT ME BRO WHERE YOU AT DON'T BE A FAAKIN PUSSYOLE HIT ME HEAD ON YOU SCUMBAG

[Goat on a Raft]

sorry CDB

[Goat on a Raft]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN MODCONFIRMED

[Goat on a Raft]

Unvote: Spyrex
Vote: elleheathen

Day 3, Vc 10

AGar (5) -

Goat on a Raft

, Benmage, Garruk Relentless, The Alchemist, Alfred Borden

elleheathen (1) -

Goat on a Raft

MODCONFIERMED

NOW SQUIRM SCUM

[Goat on a Raft]

Mate you are voted now just faakin give up

[Goat on a Raft]

You will die a painful death via lynching

[Goat on a Raft]

Looooool Titus way to show your true hand

You think I'm bullshitting having two votes by EDITING A MODPOST?

Wow more votes here. Super please.

[Goat on a Raft]

Hints?!

Mate I voted you because you are a scumbag.

AND it's hilarious so suggest I faked having two votes when ANY LOOK AT EDDARD'S VOTES PAST THE POST NUMBER I QUOTED shows Goat as voting two people.

Mate you might have been able to fool some but I AM ONTO YOU#

PEDIT: OOOH LOOK AT THAT TWO VOTES FOR THE FUCKIN GOAT

[Goat on a Raft]

GOATSEES YOU

Goatse

[Goat on a Raft]

You are so town it hurts me in my naughty place

[Goat on a Raft]

Don't replace me bro

[Goat on a Raft]

So I only wanted to post here drunk but it looks like I won't have that luxury.

Unvote

Unvote

I saw some claims. I had a little think about them. Basically the cop claim from Quadz AFTER the global roleblock claim from Titus sees Quadz live another two days*, and for the convenience that offers, I find it a little fishy. Nor do I think the claim makes Titus any more town. But I do see the value in lynching neither of them today.

That said, NL is a terrible idea since we should make the most of there being "no kill" (assuming Titus' roleblock is legit). I want to lynch pnj just for suggesting it. Oh wait.

Vote: Pride and Joy

From my whizzbang notes, I had SafetyDance as "no idea" though CDB had him leaning town so I won't place a vote there in the meantime.

Vote: Messiah

*Since if we're not lynching him today, and he can't die/investigate tonight if Titus is legit, the likelihood is we don't lynch him tomorrow either. If the roleblock is illegitimate, we're lynching Titus tomorrow so he lives til the next day anyway. The "macho" claim ensures "let scum deal with it" is a probable argument (it may have even been made already), so I don't see us lynching him as happening.

---

Okay so I just ninja'd into some talk about 1v1 action from Titus. I have a metric shitton of marking so I haven't read much past the claims, just skimmed the VC. Maybe CDB will check it out tonight.

Quadz if I had a roleblock I would roleblock you. Alas, I do not, and did not.

[Goat on a Raft]

I see my citric colleague has been (

magnificently

) indahouse. Good timing, too, as NaNoWriMo has been kicking me in the face. Should be able to catch up tomorrow.

[Goat on a Raft]

can we just kill quadz

If he fails to have knowledge of my flavorname, we kill him with fire tomorrow. He can be verified and so can I.

How? You're supposedly going to block him you incandescent fool!

[Goat on a Raft]

He claimed cops. Cops instead of their result get my flavor name. Please read thoroughly.

Well I remember seeing something about it earlier. It's a global redirect and roleblock combo right, but you're claiming that it doesn't "block" the investigation, but instead gives whatever cops in the game your Rolename? Do the cops have to target you?

I mean, sure, I'm not going to call that weird or anything because <3 Faraday <3
But - that's weird.

Also I'm going to point out that even if this is your role, and even if you are confirmed Named Whoever, that doesn't - in any circumstance - guarantee that you're town. Just so we're clear on that front.

[Goat on a Raft]

Like it was meant to be.

[Goat on a Raft]

Unvote

Vote: Quadz

[Goat on a Raft]

We forgot to post v/la

[Goat on a Raft]

Why is Titus not being lynched with more vigour?

Vote: Titus

[Goat on a Raft]

I don't understand why Titus isn't dead. KKB pls explain bb. I think he claimed that bullshit role and is now living on the apathy of town to not get lynched today~

[Goat on a Raft]

Lemme go see what CDB thinks of pnj

[Goat on a Raft]

So um. Could Titus not have fakeclaimed his role, and then scum were like "Lol we're not giving up our kill cya later bro" then just not voted him today amongst all the apathy?

[Goat on a Raft]

We er both had pnj as "town?" so ehh?

[Goat on a Raft]

Because I'm filled with apathy...:'(

Vote: PnJ

[Goat on a Raft]

FU Naut

Vote: Naut

We're a terrible person to use your shitrole on. Not just because we're town but also because seriously you're using it on the lurkaderp? WAY TO GO.

[Goat on a Raft]

I HAVE NO REGRETS

[Goat on a Raft]

Lemme run you through mine and CDB's scumlists brb

[Goat on a Raft]

Alfred - CDB had a townread, I didn't care if he died. Meh read more than anything. Would lynch if others were dead.
Agar - CDB said something about the SpySpy flip making Agar more town. I missed that and didn't understand it. Ehh.
Benmage - I said probScum, CDB leant town. I'd probably go with CDB here.
Cephrir - both said probTown
elle - I was still calling her scum but CDB disagreed and went back after her "weird" claim. Ehh claims are schmaims. ProbLynch fmpov, CDB backed down.
Garruk - both said probTown
kanye - TowniestTown
Messiah - SO NULL. Neither of us remembered who this was.
Nautilus - town because Nacho. Still probTown. Just BadTown for pulling this shit.
ooba - I said probTown. CDB corrected me to obvTown.
SafetyDance - As said yesterday, I had no idea, CDB was leaning town.
Shadoweh - So I guessed at probScum, but neither me nor CDB were confident in our read here.
Tammy - both said town.
Alchemist - I said town due to the coin; CDB agreed.
Tierce - soTown. CDB said he'd be shocked if Tierce were scum.
Titus - I said SCUMMM but CDB questioned it. Still not sure why he is still alive. Like...his ability flunked...

There you go.

We are Tywin Lannister. We do not shit gold.

[Goat on a Raft]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HYDRASLIP IN THE LAST POST!!!

[Goat on a Raft]

Alfred is such scum. Why hammer? They were clearly discussing stuff.

WHO IS THIS LEMON?!

HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH