A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[AGar]

Oi.

I'll be

your new

replacing Andrius.

Gimme roughly 24h to read up/make a significant post. In the mean time, carry on.

[AGar]

15/45, I'm going to stab the next person who speaks directly to a head of a hydra.

[AGar]

AGar, darling, no stabbings. We just had a wedding, let's keep it safe and not bloody.

fiiiiine

I'm reading, but was there anything highlight reel worthy between pages 17 and now? (Still gonna read, but Sparknotes are the shit).

[AGar]

Guys, why are there so many MoI impersonators in this game?

Much caffeine later....

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ooba

Kill it with fire. And then again. And maybe one more time?

Guys, Thor is town, and I'm a pro at reading Thor. Been doing it for years now.

We could also lynch macmollie. That'd be pretty sweet. Seriously, them and Ooba are competing right now for the most preposterously awful jobs at playing scum.

SafetyDance and his 10 scum reads can go pound salt, because that's about what that's worth. 10? The fuck, Faraday, why is there an almost 1:1 town scum ratio in this game?


Oh wait....

[sarcasm]The fuck, Faraday, why is there an almost 1:1 town scum ratio in this game?[/sarcasm]

And while it benefits scum a tad bit more than town to do that (and I mean a small fucking tad - any player worth their salt is gonna call another player if they jump between 10 prior scumreads with the wind sooooo), it's pretty much alignment-null. The whole jump there from nothing to 10 reads and no real reasoning given is pretty ugly, but I'd rather kill other shit first.

Stupendous is.... stupendous.

@Tierce

I'm going to stretch and guess when you say that you/Tammy/AB are all excellent at reading one another, you mean specifically one head of AB. Which is it, and how good are you at reading the other? Is it possible the other head could throw your reads?

[AGar]

Also, to the rampant usage of "I've seen this person do this as X in game Y,"...

You guys don't know how to meta and should seriously stop and do yourselves a favor and actually read them solely on this game.

[AGar]

macmollie, reads on Ooba, SD, KKB, Benmage and Zed, go. Thanks in advance.

[AGar]

ooba unsure, sd town, kanye town, benmage unsure, zden unsure

do you want an expansion of reasons why

I mean...

You don't have reads on a player who's one of the four seemingly serious wagons and one of the most outspoken players in the game, and it's been going for a bit under a week (not sure how long the outage was for as it didn't actually impact me at all). How is that even possible? There's 47 pages of content (or a lack thereof, in some cases). This isn't exactly difficult to form some opinions.

[AGar]

ooba unsure, sd town, kanye town, benmage unsure, zden unsure

do you want an expansion of reasons why

I mean...

You don't have reads on a player who's one of the four seemingly serious wagons and one of the most outspoken players in the game, and it's been going for a bit under a week (not sure how long the outage was for as it didn't actually impact me at all). How is that even possible? There's 47 pages of content (or a lack thereof, in some cases). This isn't exactly difficult to form some opinions.

I assume you are talking about ooba person who your vote is on?

no I do not

I don't have any completed games with him so he is not a voice inside my head. I did not like his list of reads but that is mostly cos we were not on it. but do you know what is weird with your angle here? on 1 hand you are bitching at me cos I don't have a read on a player and then you go and say "there are 47 pages of content!" as if the 2 correlated when they are mutually exclusive. it is almost like you are trying to subtly and insidiously imply that we do not have reads period. but

surely

you wouldn't do that...would you? cos that is what scum would do. cos I am pretty sure that ooba guy has not posted in all 47 pages which is the only thing that would link the 2 statements together.

I would expect any player who's invested in this game and interested in seeing correct lynches go through to take the time to actually form an opinion on viable wagons and vocal players. You're going to naturally come to your own reads, but I rolled off 4 players that I would expect most players to have some sort of opinion on either way (and 1 whom I personally wanted to see how some people stand on), and you had opinions on two of them. The fact that some significant action has gone down around them and you have zero opinion on them screams scum to me.

[AGar]

Does ooba usually try to make his reads look good with colors and hyphens? He's null for me right now, but I'm really curious about that. Also, Quadz has moved up again on my scum list, so I believe a vote is in order. Reasons coming later.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Quadz

You need to make up a case, I'm guessing?

[AGar]

I have stopped reading anything that is Thor and Benmage talking to one another since it's all useless drivel.

Can we

please

lynch Ooba now? His most recent spate of posts have not improved my view of him in the slightest. He asks questions, but they all seem to be filler-posts. His reasoning for his defenses on Amrun and Zdenek are extremely weak.

^

@Thor

Dear friend, just stop talking to Benmage and help us lynch Ooba (yes I know you're neutral on him). Seriously, it's just a huge wall of TvT right now, and no one likes TvT (in Mafia

or

StarCraft) because it's boring and gets nowhere. Alternatively, you said in 1230 that there are better lynches, you think. I don't like either of Ceph/Amrun for lynchbait today, so what else ya got for me?

@macmollie

Are you even paying attention in this game? Because it really feels like the answer to that is no.

We should seriously get some steam behind this Ooba wagon. That'd be pretty sweet.

[AGar]

Tammy, come to Ooba instead. Much more productive and fruitful endeavor.

[AGar]

If StupendousMan is out of the picture (I'm liking him a little better though), SafetyDance is the best wagon, followed by Thor. I will not vote ooba. Still holding out for Garruk though.

Thor is town.
SafetyDance is a sub-optimal wagon. The case on him relies on him whipping a whopping 10 scum reads out of thin air and leaving the reasoning in said thin air. It's a potential scum tell, but it gives us nothing because the whole 10 scum reads thing. Too much to sift through there.

Ooba has been generally passive, reactive and mostly concerned with his image rather than finding scum. In his first real post, he has two scum reads - quadz and kanye. He votes for one, but he makes no effort to gain traction on either wagon. A pro-town mindset would have him trying to lobby for more votes on those wagons to garner reactions, generate pressure and help divulge more from which he can gather reads from. He has repeatedly made posts which appear to deflect any attempts to garner insight into his reads, which from a town perspective makes no sense, because again - it does nothing to help gather people to your case, and thus, he once again appears to not actually care whether his wagons gain any ground, just that he has a vote cast somewhere. He's trying to make it appear as if he's involved in this game without actually being involved. He's since moved his vote to Shadoweh, who is his new main suspect, but once again done nothing to actually see if that's a viable wagon.

He's not town bro.

[AGar]

If StupendousMan is out of the picture (I'm liking him a little better though), SafetyDance is the best wagon, followed by Thor. I will not vote ooba. Still holding out for Garruk though.

Thor is town.
SafetyDance is a sub-optimal wagon. The case on him relies on him whipping a whopping 10 scum reads out of thin air and leaving the reasoning in said thin air. It's a potential scum tell, but it gives us nothing because the whole 10 scum reads thing. Too much to sift through there.

Ooba has been generally passive, reactive and mostly concerned with his image rather than finding scum. In his first real post, he has two scum reads - quadz and kanye. He votes for one, but he makes no effort to gain traction on either wagon. A pro-town mindset would have him trying to lobby for more votes on those wagons to garner reactions, generate pressure and help divulge more from which he can gather reads from. He has repeatedly made posts which appear to deflect any attempts to garner insight into his reads, which from a town perspective makes no sense, because again - it does nothing to help gather people to your case, and thus, he once again appears to not actually care whether his wagons gain any ground, just that he has a vote cast somewhere. He's trying to make it appear as if he's involved in this game without actually being involved. He's since moved his vote to Shadoweh, who is his new main suspect, but once again done nothing to actually see if that's a viable wagon.

He's not town bro.

[AGar]

to deflect any attempts to garner insight into his reads,

How so?

That sure is a better case than I've heard from anyone else though.

In going back to highlight points, I realize I mistook one of his lines in a post (specifically, "my reads are my content" in #445) as a deflection rather than the intended meaning when he said that. Strike that single point from my case, though I still hold that he hasn't given us much to work with, even his "reads" post struck me as very barren. A lot of "vibe" and similar "reasoning". The rest of that case stands.

[AGar]

Guys, seriously.

You can't have 1 town game of someone and 1 scum game of someone and say "Well this is his meta for X"

When you're new to this site and the distinct style of play, your particular play style, habits and nuances are going to rapidly shift as you play more games.

So stop. Read his actions in

this game

.

[AGar]

@AGar - a Day 1 lynchbait? Are you serious? Look at the player list, we don't need to be limiting ourself to culling at this stage and it seems silly to choose to do so. Neither of them are being pro town, which is the basic impetus of your Ooba push, but add in Amrun's awkward defense of me or Ceph's aggressive refusal to actually look at motivation and I think they both look worse objectively.

Both of them got slight town-leanings from me in my read-up, but nothing strong on either end. But it was enough to warrant me not bothering to consider them for D1 targets when I saw better ones. I'd have to re-read them (I'll do that tonight) to be more in-depth/see what you might be seeing for great justice and all that rah-rah bullshit.

Nice to see mac still avoiding the Ooba wagon. If you have conflicting reads, read and read again until they aren't conflicting. Or just sheep the vote because you're not going to come to a timely conclusion, but there are :goodfeels: on this wagon, and you have yet to provide a reason NOT to vote him.

[AGar]

Is that a yes?

[AGar]

Yes, it is not possible I was addressing those sentences to two different targets.

Go ahead, lynch me for my fucking word choice. Let me know when you're ready to play mafia instead.

How about you go ahead and clarify what was directed where?

Because we're not lynching you for word choice. If anything, it's the awful god damned grammar.

[AGar]

Shadoweh is someone I like in this game.

Ceph's... save, was well... confusing.

Ooba still needs to be dying.

Also, Thor... I asked a preeeeetty specific question in #1252. And you didn't answer it. You give me a sad. (Yes, I re-read Ceph, no I don't like it for lynching. No, I haven't re-read Amrun just yet, yes that's next on the list.)

[AGar]

Having half the game in one pile and the other half in another leads literally no trail.

Whatsoever.

It's the next best thing to having no reads in terms of leaving no trail.

Seriously, what the shit?

[AGar]

Having half the game in one pile and the other half in another leads literally no trail.

Whatsoever.

It's the next best thing to having no reads in terms of leaving no trail.

Seriously, what the shit?

yes. it is. and I even told you why.

but it probably be useful to you cos you are too inexperienced with that particular tool for it to be of any benefit not to mention you are not even open to it.

which I find interesting. town doesn't try to shut other town's scumhunting techniques. and tbh your blatant bullying is getting old.

I'm just pointing out that you're a scumbag and that I'm onto you. So really, I'm not shutting other town's scumhunting techniques.

He has 8 townreads, 5 neutral reads and 10 scumreads. You're telling me all of his scumbuddies are in neutral? That's pretty much impossible, ignoring the fact that 4 of those 5 are fairly obviously town to anyone with a pulse.

He made a list and threw half of the game into scumreads. There isn't anything that you can filter out of that list.

[AGar]

Gah, I never condensed my fucking posts.

Also, Thor... I asked a preeeeetty specific question in #1252. And you didn't answer it. You give me a sad. (Yes, I re-read Ceph, no I don't like it for lynching. No, I haven't re-read Amrun just yet, yes that's next on the list.)

Yes, you asked me a question, I responded here;

@AGar - a Day 1 lynchbait? Are you serious? Look at the player list, we don't need to be limiting ourself to culling at this stage and it seems silly to choose to do so. Neither of them are being pro town, which is the basic impetus of your Ooba push, but add in Amrun's awkward defense of me or Ceph's aggressive refusal to actually look at motivation and I think they both look worse objectively.

The other part of your question was "I refuse to lynch either of your scumreads (because I don't consider them lynchbait worthy on Day 1...which is a meaningless answer to their scumminess) - who else should we lynch?" Which...is not really a question I can answer functionally.
Hey, AGar, I refuse to lynch anyone you think is scum - who should we lynch? All that is going to get is you randomly picking some meh null read and...what, trying to act excited about that as a compromise lynch wagon of 2?
No.
Also, functionally, I had asked you to defend your position that I disagreed with, and you didn't - making *you* the one breaking the conversation chain (and, indeed, trying to go backwards in it) So...whut?

Ok I'm gonna break this one down because somewhere we've had a communication breakdown. (Paraphrasing)

Post #1252 I say "Thor, you don't like Ooba-lynch. I don't like Amrun/Ceph for D1 lynchbait (because that's what I feel they are, just lynchbait and bad wagons) so what else ya got."
Post #1261/1262 (double post whee!) I lay out my case against Ooba for someone else.
Post #1269 you question "lynchbait" and then say you find Amrun/Ceph objectively worse than Ooba.
Post #1321 I say I got townleanings on both of them, but that was during a 24h 46 page reading binge so I'd re-read them (I didn't get to Amrun last night, instead had personal affairs to tend to).
Post #1355 I ask you answer my question of other options in #1252
Post #1378 is quoted above.

- You never actually gave me anything else to work with. Clearly we're not going to agree on D1 wagons here, which happens, but to say you answered my question when you functionally didn't and then go on the offensive is really just off kilter here.

- You also never actually asked me to defend my position, although had you, you should have realized I had already entrenched my Ooba read several posts beforehand to gather some steam on that wagon.

Agar's post makes some valid sounding points. However the post toally ignores playstyle. I play this way as town - i post reads, when they flip - i quote my own reads and say "Hey i tagged em as scum here". The difference in this game is that the pace has been unrelenting so ive never had time to do a complete reread that i usually do.

Something something something self-meta something something something manipulatable.

[AGar]

1. Pot meet kettle? Yeah, i never gave an alternate and I *told you* why I didn't. You know who else didn't offer a compromise? You didn't offer one for me...but you *did* say you'd re-look at my primes, so me then waiting to see where you fell on them is pretty ruddy normal I'm pretty sure. Heck, you still haven't done my primary yet. I also ent on the offensive because you did ask me for something that I had *literally responded to*. Now, go read me in iso with Mollie, and watch that mess, and then be aware of why I'm annoyed that apparently no one reads what I write and then wants to know why I haven't answered things I have answered. I'll admit maybe you got worse than you deserved because at least there is vague justification for your point - but I did answer your question, just not the way you wanted me too.

Ok this is the main communication breakdown. I didn't take your post as asking me for an alternate, instead rather asking me to consider Amrun/Ceph (I got to the Amrun read... I'm eh about her. The V/LA makes it hard because there isn't much to work with. And Ceph has given me a big ol' "eh" feeling too with his recent posts. I could go either way on them right now). But uh, my first real post of the game said I'd also be happy lynching macmollie.

I'd really like PnJ to come back, because I liked what I saw early.
Displaced is a fair candidate for dying, between him and PB I have yet to see one concrete, justified read in the course of 50-something pages.

But the Ooba wagon is still best wagon.

[AGar]

what's unjustified about goaT vote?

Your reasoning doesn't hold up, especially when he's pointed out the numbers. It's not like he can convince people to jump on a null read, so consolidating to the larger wagon actually makes sense, especially with how weak his town read seemed to be to begin with.

First thing firsts looking at recent VC and 3 days to go ~ I am happy to join the Thor wagon, I agree with Benmage's 518 and D1 is the only optimal time to do so.

Vote: Thor665

diediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediedie

[AGar]

So wait... because two fairly experienced, above-average players are both gathering difficulty in getting reads but not panicking, they're scum?

[AGar]

Because that nets us what, exactly?

[AGar]

Because that nets us what, exactly?

A scum lynch?

I'm torn between "oh you" and "pokerface" right now.

[quote="In Also, @AGar
I did that thing we hate ;(

Who'd you meta off of one game? (If it isn't this, I'm completely lost, because it's been over 6 months since I last played and even longer, probably, since we were in the same game.

---

If 1565 isn't a scumclaim, I don't know what is. Holy shit WHY ARE WE LETTING HIM LIVE AFTER THIS?

But 1581 is also so bad.

@macmollie

Thor and I came on-site around the same time. We've played probably close to a dozen games together. In the past, we've often had similar reads and similar thoughts on play. We usually gel pretty well. Also, I haven't played a game of mafia in over 6 months. I'm relying on certain people that I'm both town-reading and know to be players I can get in line with to help me with the fact that, like many others, I'm having a hard time establishing reads. For Thor and I to be so far apart is weird, and that's why, despite a townread, I'm pushing at certain things from him. It's why I asked Tierce for quicknotes, and why I've been paying a keener eye to things that quadz, Alfred and Goat post.

[AGar]

SD, just fucking full-claim for fucks sake.

[AGar]

He just did. Easy.

Didn't get a p-edit for whatever reason.

[AGar]

VOTE: Ooba

Let's not fuck this up again, dammit.

[AGar]

VOTE: tierce

That was the most opportunistic piece of bullshit jump on thor yesterday and I'm still pissed. Hey, I said, roles before alignments. Faraday has used millers I said. I've played in the last two faraday upicks I said. Did you listen? NOOOOO. Let's abide by some bullshit model made up by you to decide what faraday wouldn't do and just ignore the person who's played in every faraday modded game here and offsite for almost two years because clearly I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh but wait, town miller, good job.

And yeah I know empire's going to come in here and yell at me, but I just don't care right now. If you're town I have no idea what the hell you thought you were doing.

nononononononono stahp. No more of this nonsense. We need to focus on shit like lynching ooba and not having a repeat of yesterday.

We find it highly unlikely that there would be no N1 deaths in a multiball setup.

~=*MaGiC*=~ of course.

ooba continues to be town. I could see an argument that 1565 is scummy if SD is town but that isn't nearly enough for me to revoke my read.

]

Can you explain how you still have a town read on Ooba (or how you ever had one in the first place)? I'd really like that.


Benmage, why are you not in here

pontificating about how amazing you are right now

owning that massive fuckup of a clear and obvious mislynch?

[AGar]

I see there are posts that I need to respond to in this thread.

But I have job #3 tonight and tomorrow, plus babysitting plus car maintenance.

Gonna have to wait until Sunday afternoon.

[AGar]

Agar I literally made a post yesterday about why I thought ooba was town. It's not overwhelming or likely to convince anyone but myself, but there it is.

Still? Thor being town doesn't really change that for me, if anything people were resisting moving off him and onto Thor and kept trying to get the wagon going again. Whereas the SD wagon fled to all corners of the earth to get off him stat.

I had forgotten that post. Yeah, it's unconvincing.

The folks who tried to fight the good fight with Ooba's wagon are, for the most part, town reads for me of varying levels of confidence. Quadz, PnJ, and Goat all eventually switched to Thor in the later hours, while Syr stayed on with me (although I would have likely regretfully switched to ensure a lynch had I not been at work).

Messiah's 2018 is just.. no.

Ooba continues to be scummy as all fuck, and no one does a thing about it.

Goat makes a good case here on Elle. Also, starting to wonder how off Thor's reads really were(n't).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: elleheathen

Ooba still needs the death but this is a good place for now.

[AGar]

AGar, read Elle's 2057 and try to tell me she's scum again, please. Your vote is bad and it makes me sad.

I don't see much townpanging coming from that post.

Guys I want to point out that the Ooba wagon is stagnating / disappearing because Ooba has become a non-presence today. This is scummy all by itself. Please don't leave me dudes.

Everyone seems content to give him a free pass at this point. I still have him highest on my list, but realistically, generating some pressure elsewhere right now is more effective it seems. The only add-on to the points I laid out yesterday we've gotten is "He's disappeared and functionally gotten all of you to forget he exists," which we've pointed out and no one is seeing anything wrong with that.

!Syr, AGar a question for you. And me and my absolutely appalling puns will be over there. (>")>

Uh... I don't see a question?

[AGar]

SpyreX replaces displaced! Welcome him to the game

Holy. Shit.

I'm going to wait with low expectations for this Amrun post.

[AGar]

Let her post the damn content and then judge. Sheesh.

It is now after 1:30 AM Eastern Time Wednesday (last I knew she was EST/borderline-possibly-CST, so after 12:30 AM Wednesday). She promised us content on Tuesday - said she was spending an ENTIRE DAY to get caught up and give us content. She has posted 9 times since midnight Tuesday -- 6 times after 8 PM Eastern, if you want to discount the times she posted prior to saying she was gonna sleep. 6 posts, no content. No reads. 1 status update, 2 questions with regards to Kanye, and 3 posts complaining.

No reads.

Again, she was devoting supposedly an entire day to this. Supposedly.

She's casted votes as recently as this day phase, even though she wasn't fully caught up. At most, she's what - 20 pages behind? 30 if we're being generous. It doesn't take 24 entire hours to read 30 pages. I caught up on 45-50 on a dry read in 24 hours with a job and, honestly speaking, making time to just bullshit and hangout for several hours with my friends in the midst of that. I didn't sit in front of my computer for straight sessions and I still got caught up faster than she did with no base layer to build off of. She has one, or she's been casting absolute bullshit votes. Stringing her up isn't an entirely bad idea.

L-2 is an entirely reasonable point to have her at by now.

L-1 is even better.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun

[AGar]

VOTE: Garruk

Post #2182: "Lynch [AGar] tomorrow [for putting Amrun at L-1], but we're willing to hammer in 12 hours."
Post #2199: "There are scum in the Amrun flash wagon" - The same Amrun flash-wagon, mind you, that they were willing to get on inside of a 12 hour window. Because that 12 hours totally makes it not-a-flash-wagon.
Post #2203: "Let's not have a quick lynch again." Dat 12 hours.
Post #2237: "A Lolhammer off of 12/88 pages is totes cool. An L-1 vote with reasoning isn't."

~fixed

[AGar]

Awesome. I'm awesome.

@Mod:

All of those [/vote] tags are supposed to be [/url]. If you could fix those, that'd be really swell.

[AGar]

Ooba's also a good vote since he has decided to now surface when two wagons that don't have his name on are surfacing as gaining traction. But fuck that, Garruk is so horrendously conflicting in everything he posts right now, he needs to die.

[AGar]

Not really helping your case, Agar. I clearly stated intent and gave a timeframe. You know, like how people who are not fools or scum do things. I wouldn't have even done it though if you hadn't set up the hammer though--half of this game is understanding tempo, and with the L-1 vote lain, someone was going to take the bait. I was hoping to head it off with our intent, but it didn't work.

And I am not giving a pass on SpyreX's hammer, but I find it paradoxically MORE acceptable than the person who sets up the hammer, ie you--you were baiting the hammer with that vote and you fucking know it. I mean, I pulled the exact same ploy in Syryana's Open, so I should know.

You find it more acceptable that someone hammered off of 12 pages of reading than someone voting to put someone at L-1.

Gotcha.

[AGar]

V/LA until Tuesday.

Apologies. Didn't foresee this.

[AGar]

2299 makes me grumble, but considering I have a strong enough town read on Tierce...

UNVOTE:

Zed's posts lately have made me realize his entire body of work this game is coming in, taking random cheap potshots at players and then disappearing again. Kinda like Ooba, only a bit more snarky.

We could kill that too.

@Ceph

Re: 2332 - No, no it's not.

AGar--when you get back, less anger, less frustration, less pointless aggression, please. Need you to be as objective as possible. Hope everything is well.

Thanks. Nothing was actually *wrong*, work just overwhelmed me (36 hours in 3 days turned into 45) due to other managers having life issues.

Trying to keep emotion in check. Realistically speaking, objectivity is going to be nearly impossible (bit of a theory/perspective rant incoming here). Players who have played multiple times with me are calling out a vote I made with reasoning to back it up because I "should have known better" or "shouldn't have had a scumread" on Amrun. Reality of the fact is that a) I was putting stock into Thor's end-of-D1 read on Amrun in addition to my frustration with her constant avoidance of actually providing even something (I alluded to my consideration of Thor's reads at one point maybe a day and a half beforehand) and b) regardless of alignment, I don't go with the "ebb-and-flow" of the general groupthink. I bus consistently as scum. I don't believe that as many people can actually meta people as they think they can. I think it takes a lot more interaction with a player than even reading all of their games thoroughly to effectively meta someone. I feel I have a good enough grasp on this site of exactly two players to meta them, over the course of 4 years playing, many times with similar groups of players. One of them was Thor. The other is Zito, and half of that comes from us hydraing in multiple games. I think too many people rely on "gathering townreads" as opposed to "finding scumreads" as an efficient way of playing as town, and I don't feel it's an efficient way of playing. I think - and always will think - that regardless of what people believe about it being a null tell, lurking is an efficient way of playing as scum if you aren't willing to fully commit to a balls-to-the-wall onslaught of posting, and that more people actually use lurking tactically than people would actually like to realize. When I see someone consistently and repeatedly putting off providing content in favor of garbage posting, I see play that detriments the town and helps the scum. Anti-town and pro-scum play are only so far apart. So frankly, I think the line of thought of "You should have known better. You should have known she wasn't scum!" is shit.[/rant]

Naut literally spent half of that span of posts explaining why 3 of his scumreads are town. My head hurts from even trying to comprehend what the fuck is going on there.

Ooba has actually been a bit better lately, although I'm still unsure there.

Tierce, can you expound on that quadz vote, please? Is there more than meets the eye? (Not a dig, just your votes today have felt off-the-hip so I want to know if this one matches that profile or if you have deeper reasoning there)

Not ready to place a vote yet.

[AGar]

I'm going to reiterate that:

the quickhammer

only

benefitted him if he got a scum role PM.

This isn't entirely true: Garruk had put a 12-hour timer on the hammer. Other people were vocally frustrated with Amrun and not quite there on voting yet. Someone else could've easily swooped in pulled the trigger (I was taking a calculated gamble putting that L-1 vote on Amrun, but I was worried about the wrong subset of players - and when Garruk put the twelve hour cap on, I decided to leave the vote and go to bed. I wasn't aware of SpyreX's fast-hammer tendencies).

AGar - I don't have a strong read here, but him putting Amrun at L-1 was bad.

Do you care to expound with your own reasoning behind this, or are you just sheeping the general groupthink because you have no real opinions of your own?

[AGar]

Curiosity SpyreX: You want me dead for the L-1 vote or for general play? Trying to get a gauge on who's actually, y'know, pursuing a case, and who's afraid to take on a POWERFUL WIZARD so taking the copout vote.

[AGar]

I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!

Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."

You do realize that, right?

[AGar]

I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!

Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."

You do realize that, right?

See: Benmage & The Self-Vote, Jan 13, The Wire.

See we have players like SpyreX.
Then we have your Tierces and your other people.

Then down a few flights there's like me, and those ilk.
Then there's DrMyShottyIzSik


Then a few basement levels down, there's Benmage.

Please don't blaspheme SpyreX like that.

i got prodded. i still want zed dead i still dont want spyuerx dead and i dont have much more 2 add.

Replace zed with AGar and we're pretty much in the same boat. Shit got lurky in here.

Pardon me for losing my internet. I'm not phoneposting in a large.

I was taking a calculated gamble putting that L-1 vote on Amrun

What is this supposed to mean? What were you gambling?

I knew there was an outside shot of quickhammering, but SpyreX was not on the list of people I concerned myself with when I made that. My mindset was "The competent players aren't gonna do anything stupid."

Do you care to expound with your own reasoning behind this, or are you just sheeping the general groupthink because you have no real opinions of your own?

I think that everything that needs to be said has been.

Agar, what is your read of Spyrex?

Right. Sheeping the groupthink. Cool.

Let me read a few more posts.

I need him to answer things first, because I didn't like PB/displaced, but I liked the conviction of his "Fuck you I would've hammered regardless" today, even if the hammer itself was bleh.

[AGar]

oh also i still believe in my spyrex vote

and i think you should too.

Tammy, do you think scum-SpyreX comes in and says "I would do it all over again even if I had read every post?" re: his hammer?

I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!

Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."

You do realize that, right?

I only made that point in response to Spyrex's gross attempt to defeat my argument by self-metaing. In any case, it wasn't specific to this game--Spyrex quickhammers as town so that he can quickhammer as scum and get away with it. Unless there's a hidden benefit to derpass troll hammers that I'm missing?

Let's just say I have enough respect for Spy that I don't think he would use games to build a meta just so he could game said meta. I think he's above those kind of shenanigans.

@ AGar, re: 2498: I'm confused. You make it pretty clear that you know who Spyrex is and have formed an opinion of his play, but then you say that you didn't expect Spyrex to quickahmmer because "the competent players aren't going to do anything stupid." But everyone is contending that Spyrex's meta = town trollhammers all day err day. Explain?

- Des

Short of going through 61 games in my history to check the playerlist on every one, I do not recall actually ever playing with SpyreX. If we have played together, it was in a rather forgettable game. I read a few games he was in a few years back for Scummies judging, and I know who he is on site because he's a presence and when you're onsite for 4+ years, you know who the presences are. I don't meta people. I've said before, I feel it's a fairly unreliable tool save for a few circumstances. I couldn't tell you the first thing about SpyreX's actual play beyond his reputation is that of a good player. Generally speaking, I don't expect good players to fast-hammer without solid reasoning.

Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."

You do realize that, right?

If you do something as town, you can do it as scum.

Not my point. My point was that the accusation was that Spy spent all of his time quickhammering so he could do it in one game and point to his past meta to go "Ha! I'm town!" First, it's been said he does it alignment null a few times I believe. And second, I've said above about how I feel about that kind of accusation.

I know I'm a bad lynch. I really feel like SpyreX is a bad lynch. But today is not going to end in any other lynch. Let's be realistic here. The end of D2 was way too polarizing for most of the players in this game. No one wants to budge on those. Clearly if push comes to shove, I'm voting SpyreX, and he's voting me. The town needs to come to a consensus on one or the other and just lynch it and progress, because we're literally getting absolutely nowhere in this game right now. Half the town is lurking, and part of that is because we're beating a dead horse. A group feels I'm scummy for putting Amrun at L-1 to bait a quicklynch. Another group feels SpyreX is scummy for quickhammering. There's a handful of people who feel both of us are scummy. This is literally all today has given us, and all that it is going to give us.

In the meantime...

Zdenek is scum.

He was someone I literally couldn't get a handle on the first two days, and upon rereading, it's because there's nothing to really "get a handle on." He pops in, drops some pithy one liners, regurgitates the general groupthink, then leaves. He's riding the ebbs and flows, taking advantage of what goes along in the game to keep himself from completely being readless, but he's just latching onto the biggest opportunity presented to himself and riding the coattails. Generally weak votes all around, no real drive behind them. If you can be pithy, you can use rhetoric in your favor.

[AGar]

Agar's comment about gambling by putting Spyrex at L-1, still makes no sense. I have no idea what he was hoping to win. I also don't understand why he likes Spyrex's conviction about his hammer, since I don't think Spyrex would have done anything differently as either alignment.

I wanted pressure/content from Amrun, and if that didn't come, a lynch. I knew there was a risk that someone would come in and quickhammer the wagon, but I felt the vote needed to be there to help really lay the pressure on and get something done. Hence, gambling.

Zdenek is scum.

No time to go in depth but the zdenek wagon is the best of the three options.

Then why are neither of you voting him and actually making it a viable wagon option? Your votes are doing so well there in that 'Not Voting' pile.

Read the preceding paragraph in my post. I laid out pretty well how I think today is most likely to go. I was laying the read down for posterity. Some of the more polar reads are actually coming around, but I'm not holding my breath for a full-on wagon.

VOTE: Zdenek

[AGar]

Tammy, do you think scum-SpyreX comes in and says "I would do it all over again even if I had read every post?" re: his hammer?

Yes. I sure as hell would. What other position do you think he would take? "Sorry guys that was actually a horrible thing I did?"

There's the option of just saying "It happened, deal." or something to that effect.

A group feels I'm scummy for putting Amrun at L-1 to bait a quicklynch. Another group feels SpyreX is scummy for quickhammering.

And there's a third, unacknowledged group that thinks peacebringer was actually scummy and SpyreX hasn't done anything close to helping dispel those bad feelings. There's also a bunch of townies floating around everywhere and his slot is in the bottom of the bottom half of "reasons to call this person town".

That group has been such a vocal minority, I wasn't aware they existed.

[AGar]

We're not done yet, Agar,

I haven't taken you as seriously starting since... ever, so I await your "triumphant return."

@Naut

I already explained my read on Spy. Read my posts and you'll find it.

[AGar]

I still really want to kill Zed.

I have no input on this Syryana/CES-impostor/Who in the World is The Alchemist shit because... I've played a game with CES once and it was Wait Your Turn Tex and I've never played with Syryana, and this meta just seems awfully.... vague.

Alchemists attack on me has been... there. Consistent. Not really propped up. But just there looming. I've honestly mostly ignored it for it's duration until this came to light.

[AGar]

Yeah let's see that coin go to Tierce.

[AGar]

VOTE: Zdenek

He needs to die. I'll be back in action with more tomorrow when I'm not nursing a brutal hangover (currently @ 8 hours and counting. Fuck tequila.).

[AGar]

Ok, Sox game is over. I can post now.

Zdenek is scum.
By AGar

D1
- The push on Thor for his claim felt really artificial and contrived. Re-read it and see how he pushes arbitrary or awkward points that don't really add up, and when debunked, keeps with them. Stretching hard for a mislynch off the back of Benmage's push (which was abysmal, but I can at least see the town mindset there).
- The weak push on SD where he doesn't actually commit, just pussyfoots around SD's ten scumreads.
- Arguing with Kanye (who's pretty obvtown and has been for a while now) instead of being productive, but again pussyfooting it (his vote is still parked on Goat at this point in D1).
- Generally not actually trying to motivate people to join in on his attempt to get Goat lynched. Basically looks like he wants to park a vote on someone he knows isn't going to be lynched, and take small one-liner shots at random people without actually getting his hands dirty.
- #1324 is just downright awful. Excuse for not voting for kanye ("I only have one vote"), then saying kanye can die (still no vote), then some random commentary on a mollie/kanye exchange.
[indent]- This is now 16 posts on D1 from when he voted for Goat on a Raft, and he never once even tries to get traction for a wagon, instead casting his suspicions in about 6 different directions.
- #1419 he gives up on Goat because it's not going anywhere. He made 22 posts without once trying to get any support for the wagon, then acts as if it's everyone else's fault we don't follow his read. But then he votes Amrun, instead of Kanye. No mention of Kanye, and the only backing is "typical scum ISO."
- Switches to Thor, then parks his vote and goes into breeze mode. This is scum who knew his partners weren't on the lynch block that day.

D2
- Quick vote of Amrun to open. No backing, no further attempt to get people interested. Just a vote.
- Explains Amrun's lack of activity is between null and scummy and he's ok lynching her. So Kanye needed to die on D1, but now on D2 he's fine lynching someone he has, at best, a weak scumread on. Still no explanation or attempt to convince people. Like zero attempt. This is also apparently his only read on D2.
- Between that post and the end of the day, nothing useful. Seemingly empty questions, unless he's hoarding every single read he has and waiting till... I dunno, he gets an engraved invitation to share them?

D3
- Quick vote on SpyreX. Presumably for the quickhammer. On, y'know, the wagon he parked his vote on to start D1. This is just a bad start.
- The whole SpyreX-Zdenek dynamic looks like a botched attempt to cross-bus. Zdenek votes for SpyreX for fairly weak reasons. SpyreX tries to push back at Zdenek and maybe link him to someone unrelated. Neither is too aggressive about it (although this is the first time Zdenek actually, y'know, explains a vote in any detail - I don't think this is coincidental).
- He finally spills his reads! This is progress. Too bad half of them are weak, and it's D3 and you shouldn't have mostly weak reads if you're reading along.
- Weak vote for The Alchemist at the end (getting away from the SpyreX lynch when a convenient alternative appears!) and then continued discussion on that topic. That SpyreX read disappeared REAL QUICK.

Yeah you should all be voting for Zdenek.

@Naut

I said specifically on D3, I felt PB/displaced left me with a null/slightly-scum read but SpyreX's owning of that hammer felt town as shit to me. That's literally the entire crux of that read right there. His posting on D3 was purposeful. He managed to keep himself engaged in the light of the wagon. Those are things I expect town to do, not scum.

@Kat

What was the whole counter-claim business thing yesterday? I don't fully get what happened there really.

I also want an explanation from SD because something's not adding up, or I'm slow on the uptake today. Not sure which yet. Probably the latter.

[AGar]

vote kkb

WK

This is the first post containing a vote after the initial SpyreX wagon. Therefore, it is the first step to the derailing of said wagon in favor of the Zdenek/AGar wagons. And of all things it's for white knighting SpyreX. I'm not saying anything about this really, vote documenting the derailing.

Tammy
Shadoweh
AGar
Benmage
elleheathen
kanyeknowsbest
Messiah Complex
ooba
SpyreX
quadz08

scum are in here ^.

But it feels gross to vote SpyreX.

So I will

VOTE: Elleheathen

Here's another alternative wagon, and with a lame excuse not to vote SpyreX to boot! "I think the guy everyone is voting for is scum but nyeh so I'm gonna do something to actively derail the wagon"? Yuck.

The Spyrex vote is pretty great and we're-a let you finish but Agar made one of the scummiest moves onto the Amrun quickwagon of all time. OF ALL TIME!

{...}

VOTE: AGar

Here's yet another alternative!

I can dig agar scum.

unvote vote Agar

Let me go ahead and make this a real bandwagon even though I literally just voted someone else. Try a little harder to stop this please. At this point I would characterize the initial SpyreX push as completely dead.

I liked the Agar vote more. The lolhammer I can justify as a lolhammer, but putting her to L-1 like that is just complete bullshit.

VOTE: Agar

But on the off chance it wasn't, here's a really poorly reasoned wagon hop. Like actually, read this post and cringe with me as you near the end of it.

Why did you wait to use this ability?

We decided that we would wait in order to avoid giving scum a reason to nightkill us early on, given that the ability could be pretty useful and we're pretty keen on being alive (for this head at least, it would suck if we died before the numbers thinned out a bit). If one of us had been around late Yesterday like we'd meant to/before a lynch happened, it's possible we'd have decided to break it out then. On the other hand, we might have waited longer if we had had more scumflips before Today.

Having not been online when the Amrun lynch happened, we came into Today with fresh deathrage towards both Agar and Spyrex. The urge to whip it out became overwhelming. We're out, we're proud, we have two votes. LOCK 'N' LOAD.

Augh! I still can't talk about this!

here that moved me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ooba

This immediately follows a big post about ooba from shadoweh (accompanied by a vote). The picture I'm trying to paint here is that we have some players who appear to be really aggressively hunting for alternative wagons without actively defending Spyre (as kanye did). Primarily P&J and Benmage.

im willing to vote cephrir

(chesskid)

Case in fucking point.

Unvote

I need to sleep+think. These claims change things.

This follows my fake hammer. Those claims really did not change things (I assume claims plural means Alchemist and Spyre). I guess Alchemist's might have a little but Garruk was voting Spyre so that is not incredibly relevant. Spyre claimed a weak protective role. Why on earth should we care about that claim? It shouldn't affect anything, if you want to unvote then just unvote. Note that this post assumes, at least to my reading, that Spyre is aware he has not been hammered.

On an unrelated note, I am having trouble shaking my early townread on elle, even though a few things have made me uneasy. Someone convince me, I guess?

Update on my suspects:
Alchemist: We're not lynching this until Tierce does her thing but I still want it to die.
Messiah: I have very mixed feelings about their interactions with Spyre. I guess this is a good thing for them.
Garruk: Looks worse than before, see body of post.
Goat: Using their double vote on Spyre I actually liked, but they do remove it before too long. Not much change here in light of the new information.
Titus: See Messiah, I suppose, but less so. Hopefully having just played with town Titus will help me out here.
P&J: Welcome!

Ceph, why the fuck do I not understand at all what you're trying to paint with this post? Is this supposed to be all connections to Spy? Because Tierce pretty much universally fucked over anyone who tried to even hint at Garruk-scum, Goat-scum seems highly improbable, and the odds of everyone not voting for SpyreX being scum is pretty... improbable.

That's literally the entire crux of that read right there. His posting on D3 was purposeful. He managed to keep himself engaged in the light of the wagon. Those are things I expect town to do, not scum.

bro this fucking sucks

I really don't give a shit. I wanted other people dead, I had a wagon calling for my head, and I made a read. Congrats, I was wrong - it happens more often then not lately.

Wanna stop fucking pussyfooting it?

[AGar]

I was examining the area around his wagon for anyone who might have been deliberately detracting from it. I was also looking for potentially awkward half bussing but I didn't find anything that stuck out.

Because Tierce pretty much universally fucked over anyone who tried to even hint at Garruk-scum

???

Re-read me pushing on Garruk early D3, and then Tierce's responses.

Goat-scum seems highly improbable

It actually doesn't?

Scum doublevoter isn't a terrible stretch, although I would expect it to be limited. Scum giving out a # of how many scum there are doesn't seem probable at all.

Wanna stop fucking pussyfooting it?

I'm doing something else atm.

So the answer is no. Gotcha.

Nautscum is probably a thing.

@SD

Stop being cryptic. Very clearly post "N1 I did this to X. N2 I did this to Y. N3 I did this to Z." If you're town, you gain nothing from being clever about what happened.

@Tierce

You're really missing a key point for why people are questioning this SD thing. Ceph brought it up in #3224.Let SD do the talking, because since you've started answering for him, he's gone quiet. There's some serious disconnects in his story, and they need to be ironed out or strung up. I get your frustration that this is being hung up on something you see as fairly cut and dried, but the rest of us don't so stop trying to squash it.

[AGar]

Phone.

VOTE: SafetyDance

[AGar]

Whether I got ninja or strongman mixed up in the initial post is irrelevant to what I used N2 and what I claimed I used. It has never changed.

No, it clearly has.

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

*sigh* basic mafia theory, man. You out tracks if they give you pseudo-guilties, not pseudo-innocents, unless another claim contradicts your results or it's fullclaim time.

Curious to see how he responds to Garruk's question.

I love how everyone's a hindsight expert and no one said boo D3.

I don't need to respond to GR, since he's being stupid because there's no confusion or contradiction.

Yesterday was Day 3. Today is Day 4.

Therefore day 3 IS yesterday and yesterday was when I claimed to have blocked Naut D2.

Can't have visited Naut and Quadz on the same night, they would be kinda impossible.

This is all I really need to point out, we need to lynch him ASAP.

[AGar]

The emphasis in the second quote is mine, btw.

[AGar]

As it is, since I was not vanillized by SCUM on N1, I'm fairly sure I was already shot by them and that a missing kill last Night came from somewhere else.

If this is TrueFax, then we need to lynch Titus.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

---

Because I'm persistent and this is pissing me off, here's a timeline for SD's claim/strongman/ninja bullshit:

Day 3

Post #2457 - SD says "Unless Naut is a ninja, he's didn't do anything [Night 2]. Implication is a track of Naut.

Day 4

Post #3058 - SD tells us quadz didn't visit anyone Night 3.
Post #3080 - "And I didn't claim to use the trackyesterday, I used Snare/Block. Naut didn't do any killing or anything at all just like last night quadz didn't go anywhere."
Post #3085 - "Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2."

HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO SEE.

Titus, then SD, then Naut.

Fucking. Success.

[AGar]

AGar, why are you not voting SD after just explaining the fact that he blatantly contradicted himself? It's not even like you're saying "HE'S TOWN AND JUST CONFUSED OR SOME SHIT" because you say we should lynch him tomorrow.

splain yourself.

Read the point before my vote swap.

Then read it again.

I'm not gonna splain.

[AGar]

Except people can read me here and I have something like four or five players vouching for me as Town. Feels nice! (...unlike my scum games...)

AGar, I really want to go after quadz after that post of his.

UNVOTE: quadz08
VOTE: Titus

The most recent one?

Yeah that gives me a huge sad.

But Titus needs to die first.

[AGar]

Or we can go for an ambiguous hint of something from someone I'm not townreading as strongly, and who everyone else suspects (and so needs to pull something big if scum), against a slot I'm liking better than I was yesterday.

This me, sir?

[AGar]

Or we can go for an ambiguous hint of something from someone I'm not townreading as strongly, and who everyone else suspects (and so needs to pull something big if scum), against a slot I'm liking better than I was yesterday.

This me, sir?

Yep!

I wouldn't say everyone is suspecting me, or I suspect that my head would be in a rope right now.

But, to assist you, I mean exactly what you're reading it to mean. I'm not saying it for :reasons: right now, but it's exactly what you think it is, and no I don't mean something else.

@Goat

Say you have a damn-near sure thing and something that feels like scum but you're not as sure. Which do you choose?

[AGar]

True fax I'm literally not trying to post cases today because I realized if you weren't going to lynch Alchemist because of his coin you sure as hell aren't going to lynch my promises of sweet reaping vengeance. Suck it goatface.

What is this coin thing? I certainly wasn't around when you made that argument. Tierce has hinted at coins as well.

ISO

Ctrl+F

Coin

Dammit this isn't hard. Are you intentionally refusing to actually do any heavy lifting yourself?

[AGar]

True fax I'm literally not trying to post cases today because I realized if you weren't going to lynch Alchemist because of his coin you sure as hell aren't going to lynch my promises of sweet reaping vengeance. Suck it goatface.

What is this coin thing? I certainly wasn't around when you made that argument. Tierce has hinted at coins as well.

You keep complaining that you don't know things or that people are withholding things from you. How about, again, you read the damned game? I don't care how many games you're in, you signed up for this game so you have a responsibility to it and to us. The constant complaining that you don't know what people are talking about could be solved by

reading

.


PEdit: Well

hi

there.

Sorry to steal your thunder.

[AGar]

There seems ZERO reason not to give titus 1 night.

There is.

It's called I can't replicate what happened last night tonight.

[AGar]

There seems ZERO reason not to give titus 1 night.

There is.

It's called I can't replicate what happened last night tonight.

So what? If you're right and Titus is scum we either gain a free day or we lynch him tomorrow anyway.

- Des

Gah, fine.

The logic here makes sense. I'm just not a fan of the claim, and I'd like to kill it with fire.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: quadz

sadface.jpg

[AGar]

Because you aren't really making actual attempts to deliver. You don't need extra 48 hours given how long ago you joined the game. You, and only you, are responsible for however many responsibilities you have in your life. You knew this game was long when you joined it, so this is YOUR problem when you join the game and choose to ask pointless questions instead of reading the thread to find their answers. I can guarantee that using the search function in this thread for "coin" takes less than 5 days or 48 hours or whatever you're claiming you have no time for.

Asking specific people catchup questions is a legitimate scumhunting tactic.

When coupled with actually attempting to gleam information from the thread yourself? Sure.

When it's your standalone method of getting information? No.

[AGar]

Unvote, Vote: Tierce

Did you miss the part about Tierce eating a NK N1?

Or are you just blatantly ignoring that. That's been stated

since you replaced in

.

=====

At Kats to the list.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SafetyDance

On to the next on on to the next one.

But f'reals, the quadz targets make perfect sense. PnJ's push that "You had bad targets!" is pretty turrrrible.

[AGar]

I need to do my own thinking about this claim but general question: is it site meta here to check your null reads over your scumreads (the latter is what I've typically done offsite)? Because I recall quadz suspecting ooba pretty heavily and see that name as a pretty glaring omission among his investigations.

Site meta isn't heavily defined in one way or another as far as I've known, but it is a fairly discussed topic and there was a pretty well supported MD thread by mastin about how good cop play is not checking your scumreads or townreads but rather those that you can't read (as it gives you more reads overall).

[AGar]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16412

Link, if you want to read it to see if it fits in with the claim (I think it does personally, I don't remember quadz going heavy in either direction on any of those three reads really).

[AGar]

Okay, who is this "himself" that SafetyDance should have seen quadz visiting? Because quadz would never be seen visiting quadz if he was roleblocked by anyone.

Tammy is saying if SD tracked quadz, SD would've seen quadz go to SD.

[AGar]

Ok so I didn't block quadz.

REALLY didn't think I had to come out and actually say that because earlier, but I did not block quadz.

SD's claim has been very fucked (Naut isn't a ninja/ninjas avoid detection/I totally blocked Naut N2, tracked quadz N3), and SD's claim today of his results was almost as if he slipped with a block result ("quadz did not visit Tierce, or anyone for that matter.")

Let's not start down the trail of "scum RB blocked quadz" unless you're willing to string up SD, because that's really just not plausible. Be real.

SD should be dead by now.

[AGar]

Ok so I didn't block quadz.

REALLY didn't think I had to come out and actually say that because earlier, but I did not block quadz.

SD's claim has been very fucked (Naut isn't a ninja/ninjas avoid detection/I totally blocked Naut N2, tracked quadz N3), and SD's claim today of his results was almost as if he slipped with a block result ("quadz did not visit Tierce, or anyone for that matter.")

Let's not start down the trail of "scum RB blocked quadz" unless you're willing to string up SD, because that's really just not plausible. Be real.

SD should be dead by now.

I don't have any idea what to make of this post. If you don't think it's plausible that I was roleblocked by scum, then why aren't you voting me, since no town player has claimed to have roleblocked me?

Because I think SD is scum?

[AGar]

V/LA until Sunday

I'm currently running on 2 shitty hours of sleep I got in the driver's seat of my car at a rest stop this morning for the past 48 hours or so (wheee casinos for a friends birthday). I work 12+ hours tomorrow. Once I'm fully recharged on Sunday and have my head on straight and don't need a constant flow of caffeine to function, I'll be in this thread and actually producing something worthwhile.

[AGar]

VOTE: Titus

Let's go with I blocked Titus on N3 when there was no kill and no other apparent shenanigans.
Let's go with her claim either didn't work or was bullshit.

Kthxbai.

[AGar]

VOTE: Titus

Let's go with I blocked Titus on N3 when there was no kill and no other apparent shenanigans.
Let's go with her claim either didn't work or was bullshit.

Kthxbai.

so from your perspective what would you have expected to happen differently had you not blocked titus?

or more specifically, what would you have expected to happen if you had blocked her and she had been telling the truth about her ability?

I blocked her N3.
N4 is when she was supposed to use her shot.

But regardless, I still blocked her on N3, no kill occurred on N3, and there has been no other claims to substantiate any other explanations, Tierce's absorbing a shot was actually dropped by her after finding out she had been vanillia-ized.

I soft-claimed this yesterday, but then we got caught up in SD/quadz and lynched quadz so this kinda fell by the wayside, but I'm really just convinced here so that's a thing.

[AGar]

ah. in that case what are your thoughts about the lack of kill n1 and n4?

N1 was explained as far as I've read.
N4 there was a kill as far as I'm aware. Unless Barristan wasn't a kill.

Titus' role to me just was like "Ok, give her a shot to use it and then barring weird, kill it with fire."

That was my understanding of why we aborted that lynch yesterday.

[AGar]

ah. in that case what are your thoughts about the lack of kill n1 and n4?

N1 was explained as far as I've read.
N4 there was a kill as far as I'm aware. Unless Barristan wasn't a kill.

Titus' role to me just was like "Ok, give her a shot to use it and then barring weird, kill it with fire."

That was my understanding of why we aborted that lynch yesterday.

Shadoweh has made it pretty clear that the "global" block/selfdirect didn't affect his shenanigans. Furthermore he isn't voting Titus for his failure to deliver upon his statement. So wouldn't your inquiry begin with Shadow, and not Titus, who wouldn't know about said shenanigans.....

I'm voting Titus because I blocked Titus N3 and there was no kill N3 and no one else has claimed any other reason why there would be no kill N3.

You are dense.

[AGar]

Ok, I missed Shadoweh claiming the Kats death.


My vote remains unchanged.

[AGar]

i think its extremely suboptimal play if scum

I know.... but who doesn't check the lynch scene. Like w.t.f??? How'd he even know when to check back to the thread?!?

-Get daystart PM
-Go to thread when at computer.
- Post quick reply.
- Ignore ninja previews.
- ????
- Profit.

[AGar]

why are people unironically rolling dice to decide a vote on D5 of a large theme

?!?!

- Des

Why aren't you voting Titus?

[AGar]

We already have a town JOAT in safety dance.

Really?

Jesus christ.

You're just...

Not even trying here?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PrideandJoy

[AGar]

I've read too much Bill Simmons lately...

The Shakey's Pizza Watch for D5 ... Ooba's vacillating reads ... PnJ's seemingly erratic posting to me ... people who still believe Titus is town ... Nautilus ... Benmage's sudden effort ... The apparent growings of an Alchemist wagon (did I miss a memo? I thought the coin thing was a fair bit towards TownAlch) ... Titus's posting in general ... Titus ... Yeah that's all I've got.

[AGar]

I've read too much Bill Simmons lately...

The Shakey's Pizza Watch for D5 ... Ooba's vacillating reads ... PnJ's seemingly erratic posting to me ... people who still believe Titus is town ... Nautilus ... Benmage's sudden effort ... The apparent growings of an Alchemist wagon (did I miss a memo? I thought the coin thing was a fair bit towards TownAlch) ... Titus's posting in general ... Titus ... Yeah that's all I've got.

Stellar.

I know, ins't it?

Problem is until yesterday I had quadz pegged far on the town-side of things. So between him and SpyreX I've had two fairly confident town-reads be dead wrong. Plus the whole SD thing still makes my head hurt (Yes, the ninja thing very much bothers me to this point. Point for thought - quadz' cop claim semi-true and he awkardly 1v1'd an opposition scumbag to try and come to some sort of parity/get some association heat off of Chaos? The weird attempt-to-back down would then make some sense too,) and I'm not so easy to just go "Welp SD is town then," right now because of how much it bothers me. And then this Titus thing just ain't happening it seems. I've got "Zdenek read REALLY scummy to me." and "I blocked Titus N3 and there was no-kill N3." to go off of, and that's not buying the 9 other votes necessary.

So I probably really desperately need to re-read the past couple of days (D3-present is where my shit kinda falls apart) and compare them to where my head was at on D1-D2 and get myself squared away there. But the problem THERE is that I just don't have the time for that this week, so I'm kinda sheeping a few different townreads of varying shades, seeing what's compelling in thread to sway my vote and calling what I see in the moment for both the fact that it's things that look like bullshit and so I have something to work from when I can finally merge in the two halves of this game into one coherent non-clusterfuck, which will probably be sometime after Saturday.

So this is a really longwinded excuse as to why I'm doing nothing more than taking pot-shots at the moment and kinda just brainvomiting into the posting box.

[AGar]

Guh. This game felt like a chore, definitely not one of my better showings.

Benmage, I'll reiterate what most have said - you're entirely insufferable to play with.

[AGar]

Oh, big ups to Faraday for this one. Not all was terrible and doooooom.

[AGar]

Guh. This game felt like a chore, definitely not one of my better showings.

Benmage, I'll reiterate what most have said - you're entirely insufferable to play with.

yah but your roleblocks were on fuckin point tho

Yeah. But as a whole, I was not good this game.

I roleblocked two scum, only one got lynched and that was without my information soooo that's a thing.

[AGar]

I roleblocked two scum, only one got lynched and that was without my information soooo that's a thing.

Three Cephrir, the night you died.

GOD DAMMIT BERNICE.