A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[SafetyDance]

Prod received, thread bookmarked, will start reading once I've sorted out other things.

[SafetyDance]

Wow, this game is just like the last one.

Lot's of filler posts, egos and meta-gashing . Oh what fun day one. Anyway, yay, caught up on 30+ pages in 2.5 days. \o/

Reads list, mostly gut based and leanings at this stage but it's a start to work with.

TOWN
quadz
zednek
amrun
peace
ooba
cephrir
benmage
messiah complex

NULL BLOCK
tierce
tammy
shadoweh
syrana
stupendous

MAFIA
Garruk
nautilius
alfred
ellebereth
kanye
goat
pride
andrius
macmollie
thor

Vote: Garruk Relentless

[SafetyDance]

Oh, was 721 game-related at all?

[SafetyDance]

I'm confused. What slip? If I'm the one who scumslipped why I am left in the dark over it?

[SafetyDance]

Vote: Garruk Relentless

Any particular reason why you voted us though? Or is it all just "gut" after 35 pages of content?

-SSK

I think you're most likely to flip scum.

You show me someone who has 23 solid reads on all players after 35 pages of "content" and I'll show you a liar.

~tags fixed

[SafetyDance]

Nfi why dem quote tags fucked up.

Mod help?

[SafetyDance]

Oh, I got elleheathen's name wrong. Meh.

I didn't even realise Ellibereth was part of a hyrda here till reading the playerlist again. I mean, sure, must've read it before to recall the name, but I hadn't/haven't memorized who's in each hydra. I think the only game I had with Ellibereth was Jason's Kingmaker mafia and that was ages ago.

[SafetyDance]

^What shit "slip" reasoning.

Was this towards me or Thor? Mistakes happen. Unless you're perfect and never made one and have a photographic memory so can learn/memorise 29 names in an instant you're in no position to judge.

I'm more than happy with Thor's scenario though because it's never going to eventuate.

[SafetyDance]

This list makes no sense whatsoever. And doesn't have a single reason on it even for the guy he's voting. What?

Cephrir, there's is no difference to my list to the one you posted a few posts down than a few extra lines attached to then. Like yours, it's mostly a binary list. It's rudimentary, yes, I did quantify that in the very sentence above. I did think people here had the intelligence to read that and understand it bt maybe I'm giving the site-meta too much credit in that regard.

Ultimately, it's no different to what Nautilius has been doing anyway with their list anyway.

[SafetyDance]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5330934 holy SHIT this is awful. Gone for 400 posts, and the

only comment you have

is that? jesus
that said, 811 is actually a decent case

I thought the same about GR but they had only been gone 30 hours before just posting 830

[SafetyDance]

A.) Those few lines make all the difference. For all I know you generated that list using an RNG.

B.) I'm also complaining about its actual contents (scum section including my 3 best townreads and literally only one player I think is scum). If your list is going to be that controversial and scumread a whole bunch of players no one else is you need to explain it.

You disagreeing with it doesn't make it controversial. I really don't get why you should have to have an arbitrary amount in your scums reads. I don't know the number of scum. Do you? Last Faraday game I played had just 4+1. So why do you have 6? Know something we don't?

You're filled with more hubris than the spawn of Thor and Benmage marriage if you think my reads HAVE to align with yours.

I'm curious though, what are your three strong town-reads that I have in my scum pile?

[SafetyDance]

Ceph, hey Ceph, there's

eleven

names here.

Andrius
elleheathen
Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)
ooba
PeaceBringer
quadz08
SafetyDance
StupendousMan
Syryana
Thor665

Which one?

Don't recall you having a problem here.

[SafetyDance]

Catching up now from wherever my last post was.

[SafetyDance]

Right, let's do this thread.

[SafetyDance]

First thing firsts looking at recent VC and 3 days to go ~ I am happy to join the Thor wagon, I agree with Benmage's 518 and D1 is the only optimal time to do so.

Vote: Thor665

[SafetyDance]

Lol, if you wont lynch a miller claim then you wont run up me. Unless, double-standards!

Anyway if you do, prefer it to be after dinner. Claim then if needed.

[SafetyDance]

Lol, if you wont lynch a miller claim then you wont run up me. Unless, double-standards!

Anyway if you do, prefer it to be after dinner. Claim then if needed.

With less than 24 hours to deadline and you twice the wagon than anyone else... logic says claim. Especially with this shitty sneakpreview.

FYI, noone voted Thor because he claimed Miller. Nor is anyone not voting him because he claimed miller..... That would be idiotic. People aren't voting him for totally separate idiotic reasons.

Well, if I'm going to get lynched anyway then it doesn't really matter what I claim.

If that was the case then I'm a bulletproof, unlynchable pterodactyl, who will be Martin's Dues Ex Machina at the end of the books.

[SafetyDance]

People will probably believe that more than a

JOAT

again.

Wow, this game is just like the last one.

That was a breadcrumb for all the meta-whores.

[SafetyDance]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

There's

a lot

of talk and questions. Like 1500+ posts.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific right now.

[SafetyDance]

Do you have a rolename and flavor, or...?

I don't really see the point of releasing flavor now. If you don't believe me then you're going to find it out soon enough anyway.

If 1591 isn't a scumclaim, I don't know what is. Holy shit WHY ARE WE LETTING HIM LIVE AFTER THIS?

FTFY.

The amusing thing is you're just going to do this again tomorrow.

[SafetyDance]

I wouldn't lynch a friendly pterodactyl. I personally don't know what your last role was or why being a JOAT would make you bitter? Having lots of role powers is usually pretty cool! Cough up something more specific then 'lots of role powers' dood

I'm not bitter. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25285 That was the game. People have been discussing it.

It's not a lot. 3 one-shots, weaker abilities than last time iirc and more flavor specifc.

*shrug* Should be easily provable anyway if it's believed.

[SafetyDance]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

There's

a lot

of talk and questions. Like 1500+ posts.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific right now.

Okay. What did you think you were accomplishing with your introductory reads post and why did you make it?

I was planning my mislynches ahead.

[SafetyDance]

Oh wait, I would have to not be newb/bad scum in order for that to be true. Yeah, still trying to work that out.

I just finished reading 30-odd pages of crap and that was my summation of the game at that stage. There was no way I was going to right a case-by-case on every player. That was where I stood leaning on everybody.

Next time I'll just make a "I've read 30 pages" post and leave it at that.

[SafetyDance]

So a policy lynch? OK then.

[SafetyDance]

here is how town safety dance feels about reads list In this post, he points out several people who have made some types of reads without reasoning and calls it "Weak as Budwieser reads that do nothing to help with anything. List reads (or whatever you call them) are not proper reads or effective scumhunting. So it's not something you're going to see me throw out there."

So, safetydance. When did you decide that throwing out reads lists wasn't a piece of crap you wouldn't throw out there.

AND and and, when in any game did you think you had to throw out full blown reads on everyone, because I've looked at your games and you don't express that need anywhere.

FYI, 1440 is the poster-child for why meta is completely fucking useless.

I don't understand the logic of applying a standard-defined way of how people will play everything game now matter what, nor how it makes sense that they'll never appear to contradict themselves or play the exact same way, so you'll have to explain that one post-game.

[SafetyDance]

T this is obstinate caught scum.

No it's nihilistic town who really couldn't give a fuck up the brow-beating, meta-wank dick-pissing contests that passes as scumhunting in these games. But I assume that must come with being "awesome".

All I know is people in glass houses shouldn't play mafia

If 1591 isn't a scumclaim, I don't know what is. Holy shit WHY ARE WE LETTING HIM LIVE AFTER THIS?

FTFY.

The amusing thing is you're just going to do this again tomorrow.

I don't need to do this again tomorrow, because you're...

I didn't say anything about you doing it towards me tomorrow. But good job admitting that's all you're doing.

[SafetyDance]

So a policy lynch? OK then.

this is obstinate caught scum.

try again plz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality

[SafetyDance]

here is how town safety dance feels about reads list In this post, he points out several people who have made some types of reads without reasoning and calls it "Weak as Budwieser reads that do nothing to help with anything. List reads (or whatever you call them) are not proper reads or effective scumhunting. So it's not something you're going to see me throw out there."

So, safetydance. When did you decide that throwing out reads lists wasn't a piece of crap you wouldn't throw out there.

AND and and, when in any game did you think you had to throw out full blown reads on everyone, because I've looked at your games and you don't express that need anywhere.

FYI, 1440 is the poster-child for why meta is completely fucking useless.

I don't understand the logic of applying a standard-defined way of how people will play everything game now matter what, nor how it makes sense that they'll never appear to contradict themselves or play the exact same way, so you'll have to explain that one post-game.

Oh so you were reading along and were just ignoring the game and not playing. Sweet.

And the thing is I asked you a question about it because beliefs held like this tend to be standard. I was trying to understand your mindset and get a handle on your alignment. Instead of answering the question, which you should be able to do but apparently can't, you're acting like a petulant scum child.

So,

H-h-h-h-A-a-a-a-N-n-n-n-G-g-g-g

No. Believe what ever the fuck you want. Santa is your dad though and Christmas is a commercialsed pagan holiday.

Anything I say or do at this stage is just being met with confirmation bias, like I stated. And tomorrow will just be "oh he was playing bad" adbominishment posts so it's not like anyone will change or react differently. So there's no point to me giving reads.

I mean it's people own choice that they choose to focus in on the title of groupings rather than the sentence that prefaces it. People like yourself or Alfred will use meta-reasons to push reasons FOR your case, and just as easily flip-flop based on meta too. Please. All you're doing is setting up Mollie for a big ITYS post.

And fuck off. I don't have to explain activity to anyone in this game bar the mod.

[SafetyDance]

THERE IS NO BROW-BEATING; YOU ARE NOT PLAYING THE DAMN GAME.

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, IF YOU'D ACTUALLY PLAY INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE YOUR TOO GOOD TO DO A DAMN THING THERE WOULDN'T BE A WAGON ON YOU.

GODS.

See, I've never once stated I'm too good. That's you're perception. Just like mine is that you're playing exactly like the others here (evidenced by your caps locking) in that you have to shout down players or shout loudly your opinion because you're more right than others. It's frankly ridiculous.

And you're meta argument is gash because you're using one isolated game as your sample size. You're never going to effectively scumhunt that way. I mean you haven't even bothered to bring up Slimer Mafia. Case in point.

I didn't say anything about you doing it towards me tomorrow. But good job admitting that's all you're doing.

Uber town-read <3

[SafetyDance]

Oh you mean you not doing a damn thing, not answering the questions asked and you just being a cheeky petulant scummy fuck is us confirmation biasing?

I don't care what you are. Good fucking riddance.

I answered your questions. What answers exactly did you want to here? So sorry I've not bended backwards and just accepted your wrong opinion. Something tells me we will somehow move on!

Like I said, confirmation bias. And next time I catch up I will just write that I've caught up and nothing else. Ixnay on the eads-ray and ransparency-tay.

[SafetyDance]

Look dood, apparently I'm the only person on this page that doesn't hate you, so you should listen to what I'm saying. The part where you're not claiming flavor or what your joat abilities are isn't going to change anyone's minds. Your powers don't get shown when you flip, so even if you're town and you get lynched, we really need to know what you've got. I don't think it looks townie when a person in a no-flips game is trying hard to avoid saying what his role does. :/

I'm dead. Who the fuck else is going to get run up? I'm not self-voting because 1) don't do it and 2) wagon analysis later on is the only positive thing you're going to get out this lynch. I've already explained why my reads are worthless. So flavor, you will get on flip, and abilities don't mean anything once dead. So stop role-fishing.

Sooo getting SafetyDance riled up isn't going to fix anything. Stop trying to push him like that.

Let's say I entertain this claim for a moment. Yes, you do need to claim your character name and your abilities. Partial claims are not going to fly under the pretext of "you're not lynching Thor-miller so you're not lynching me because double standards lol". I want a full claim out of you.

My home internet is down, so phone posting, slow, etc.

Let's say you entertain the idea that people believe it and someone else gets run up. Having 1 PR full-claim today, going into night, with scum now knowing extra flavor-info and all the actions that person can do...that is pro-town and helpful? I dun geddit.

[SafetyDance]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

There's

a lot

of talk and questions. Like 1500+ posts.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific right now.

Okay. What did you think you were accomplishing with your introductory reads post and why did you make it?

I was planning my mislynches ahead.

This answer? Oh forgive me. I'm a fucking dumbass for getting irritated that you wouldn't answer my question. Dumb me.

Because I missed the [sarcasm] tags? Lmao, would have thought the post below would have been read by you but hey, you're ignoring whatevers convenient to you.

Whatever, I'm done. I have papers to grade and obviously safeftydance isn't going to actually engage in the game and is instead just going to troll or whatever he's doing.

Sorry, next time the day nearly ends I'll just ignore the game altogether. Since you know, meta.

[SafetyDance]

Look fool. There is no case in point. I asked you a question about your reads list a million years ago because I was trying to figure you out. You refused to actually answer the question so that I could figure anything out, and instead come out with some superior ass bs about blah blah blah stupid bullshit blah blah blah.

I don't know what slimer mafia is. Is that one instance where as town you used reads list? OMG do you mean you could have answered my fucking original question and told me that you changed your beliefs or you do it sometimes? Is that what slimer mafia means? Why can't you act like a fucking normal human being and just answer questions in way that isn't cheeky as a scum fuck petulant little child?

Because it seems pretty damn easy to me. And if you want to know why I'm yelling, it's because you're acting like a fucking jack ass.

Could you act any less like this game is all about you and just refuse to see any point I'm making?

[SafetyDance]

Okay, let me put it another way. If you are dead, and know you are about to die, do you want to:
A: Give the scum a free janitor so no one ever knows what you are
B: Tell what your role is so no one can claim to be you!

This isn't rolefishing. The only way you will not be lynched is if you claim something useful enough for people to keep you. If certain people were in this game your refusal would have them spamming 'HAMMER' every two seconds. CLAIM YOUR ROLE IF YOU WANT TO LIVE.

I've just told you my role. I'm a JOAT. I said it was provable. What if I was a doctor? What point would it be claim then? I'm not going live. Not when Tammy's so high up on her horse.

[SafetyDance]

Fine. I get the ITYS after the game that this does not help town in anyway.

Meera Reed - (para) as a skilled hunter I have the following 1-shot abilities:
Snare/Roleblock
Track
Hunter Gatherer/Fruit Vendor

Passive QT with Jojen (if he's in the game). No one has posted in it.

[SafetyDance]

Gods I hope you flip scum because if this is your town game, or if this is what you think mafia is, I'm just going to scream.

And I will rofl if this turns up to be faux-frustration. Because that's exactly want it looks like.

He just did. Easy.


Have you posted in the QT?

What is "para"?

I posted a question in the QT. Paraphrase. Didn't want to quote the role pm.

[SafetyDance]

I don't know what

slimer mafia

is. Is that one instance where as town you used reads list? OMG do you mean you could have answered my fucking original question and told me that you changed your beliefs or you do it sometimes? Is that what slimer mafia means? Why can't you act like a fucking normal human being and just answer questions in way that isn't cheeky as a scum fuck petulant little child?

See, this is just openly admitting you're meta'ing based on one game. How the fuck is that a smart thing to do?

In Slimer:
- I was town
- I gave a list that stated my reads
- I expanded on it when I had time
- I had 2/3 scum in that grouping.

I am fine with my own scumhunting. I'm not denying I haven't been around this game. The only difference in that original list I put out and the one Natialus was doing is how people interpreted it. That's confirmation bias.

Maybe in terms you'd be able to understand:

Just because I don't fit into whatever square-peg, modus operandi scumhunting you adhere to, doesn't mean I'm not doing any myself.

[SafetyDance]

It's a null claim. It's not the flavor he claimed, it's that Faranexus would very likely have such a role as either Town or scum and wouldn't likely be one of those roles that need severe adjustment after checking for alignment.

Author Mafia had a scum fruit vendor. It's only useful in the sense that it makes a role confirmable, but is no indication of alignment until we are down to one kill and we can guarantee he can't kill and act in the same Night + has no buddies, etc.

And Nexus recently had a game with a partnerless Neighbor.

Why do you say your reads are worthless?

Because apparently I'm just setting up mislynches and not committing to anything. So what's the point?

I would say 'what kind of a mod would make a QT with no partner' but my immediate answer would be 'Faraday'. I supose the provable part is the fruit vendor part? I honestly don't think it's useful enough to be the scums all things considered.

Thus why I said it would have been provable.

[SafetyDance]

FYI, I have 15 minutes before I have to go ignore my family and then go to bed so I can ignore work tomorrow thus it's highly likely I will then be ignoring this thread during deadline.

If there's any point of changing my vote too Ooba/whomever, say so now.

[SafetyDance]

No, SafetyDance. The issue is *you never explained the reads on that list*. It's a list with a lot of scumreads and a lot of unexplained stuff that you never went over. Why are you criticizing Tammy without taking a stance on what it means about her alignment?

The point is that you need to show your work. No one is a mind reader, so if you're being accused of stuff that makes sense with what you have graced us with--that reads list and a hop on a policy lynch with no other contribution--and you don't bother to refute it with actual FACTS like explaining your reads, no one is forced to believe you. Go ahead. Explain those reads, explain why you thought a policy lynch was the way to go, and why you have not been contributing until today.

And your "I told you so" is wrong, young grasshopper. If you're Town and get lynched, now we can use your role for setup analysis.

No, because its only one person, town only knows 1/23 roles which plays in the hands of scum who know all of there's plus one of town they can kill/manipulate. Still not following there.

And you're the one who's putting too much emphasis into the term scum. Read what I prefaced it with. It was where I was starting off at, 3 days into a game what was already 30+ pages, where I felt each leant too. It was mostly gut, I was mostly me choosing to place a player as either scum or town. And there was no way I was going to go back and start re-finding posts, referencing them, casing every person on there after just finishing reading it all. Ceph's whole doodar about it being bad because it didn't match his is nothing but whimsical arbitrary grandstanding. There was only one scum read there you should have cared about.

Out of Ooba v Thor I chose Thor because of what I referenced plus, failed sarcasm detection aside, I read Benmage as town in his exchange with Thor and him less so. I don't have a definitive read on Ooba.

[SafetyDance]

Bah. MC beat me to the thread. I'm still posting this:



My scum reads are:
Garruk - haven't like their early play, from their reactions to others, their conciliatory nature which appears fake, hydra flak. Wasn't getting any town ffelings from any of the rest of the posts and I'm not sure what to make of the reaction to the deadline reaction to their wagon.
Syrana - I'm positive one of the early Syr/Tammy/Shadow/Tierce party is scum and it's not Shadow and when Syr wasn't pretending this was a social function he was tunnelling. Scum.
Alfred - flip-flopping reads constantly based on the shadows reflected on the tea-leaves (meta). No.
Goat - overall play typified by the hypocrisy in 1075

Anyway it's all irrelevant.

Since I'm not playing the game and am terrible at it anyway I realise the error of my ways, so I will be sheeping Tammy all day. Her rage is sincere and her ego, just perfect. So really, it's a no brainer. mmmBOP

[SafetyDance]

Because I'd rather I be interpreted wrongly as scum by such as what MC was doing late in the game-day than be called town by fickle condescending douches.

Anyway, they were one of the ones who held their vote on me the longest, was still suspicious of me, and not an outright scum-read of mine. It doesn't make sense to send it to someone defending me early on in the game (eg Mollie).

Now tell me:
Why is it derp? Why does who I send it to matter?

[SafetyDance]

The Alchemist has joined the game.

I missed this first time round. Wow. Err, welcome?

Btw that Sandor pic looks like he ate way too much curry....

[SafetyDance]

Was Shadoweh drunk? I really do not fathom any of that mess.

She was another 1-shot neighborizer and chose to do it overnight and failed?

That's okay.
Let's vote Amrun together!

Displaced doesn't look like a scumbag.
I'll make a new list tonight or tomorrow.

Okay!

VOTE: amrun

VOTE: amrun

[SafetyDance]

Oh, please. What a remarkable effort you're going to to misunderstand what they actually said. Nice one about their reads, too!

macmollie, you're voting Town. Scum Garruk had no reason to push a pissed-off Tammy off me when they did.

tierce I just iso-ed them and I didn't see where they did that?

They did. They have a pretty damn good reason to think I'm Town.

OMGUR!

1828/1838/1845 is completely irrelevant to the 21 players not called Garruk or Tierce.

where were you yesterday in the last hours of the day round. why are you voting amrun? why are you not trusting messiah? can we plz discuss some of our reads and see where we are at?

i'm voting amrun cos she's probably scum + for thor.
i don't trust messiah because he's messiah. i like him better now.
sure! when i sync up with elli.

Which head is acting like Messiah?

Since I'm not playing the game and am terrible at it anyway I realise the error of my ways, so I will be sheeping Tammy all day. Her rage is sincere and her ego, just perfect. So really, it's a no brainer. mmmBOP

I don't remember calling you terrible. If I thought you were just a terrible mafia player; I'd just ignore your presence and move on, but as I said earlier I think you have the capability of looking town when you are, so if you are town your not doing anything was frustrating.

Can we get something a little cooler than hanson associated with me because regardless what mollie thinks my musical taste is like, mmmbop is kinda meh.

Ha, you got the Hanson pun.

The reflected BoP is amusing. I recommended re-reading your ISO. #137 onwards should do. Plenty of highlights there.

@Amrun: Some of column A, some of column B.
I forgot about your weekend V/LA
1933 & 1934 are definitely a good start though.

TOWN:
Alfred Borden
Tammy
Tierce
Elleheathen - For the little things (#469, #1861, # 687). And the usual things. Strong read.
SafetyDance

Loving the self town-read

I'd say I'm doing pretty good not reading a 80 page thread and still a) finding scum and b) not trying to lynch 1,2,3 3! people who are/were town.

Can't say I disagree with Chess's recent vote considering Mr messiah thinks a purely null post is town.

Patting yourself on the back already with no flips and no mentions of anyone being scum.

[SafetyDance]

you should watch the thread.

Amusing, I'd prefer to read it personally. Were all those Dan's posts? Not sure what the point of including the early posts unless you are still camping a scum-read on Elleheathen?

Actually, thought you two had backed off Amrun. Misread 1854.

[SafetyDance]

I wish I could ISO 13 people in 6 minutes.

P-edit: this was to GoaR

[SafetyDance]

He is town as heck though. Not sure why this isn't obvious.

This is about as useful as all Tammy's Syr/Alchy = Town and Tierce's GR = Town nonsense.

He is town as heck though. Not sure why this isn't obvious.

Because he's not? He's lagging scummily behind, I don't get how you'd get a super town read from that. It's tempting to jump over but I'm waiting for Amrun to do something (anything) as well as waiting for Naut's promised ubermensch list which will convince me he is the true messiah again.

On the opposite side, I think Dessiah still looks town as heck and don't get where the tones of distrust are coming from, other then that he confirmed he got a flower and somehow he should ignore role results he got.

It was a rabbit! And it took forever to catch, thank you very much. If I had managed to snag a direwolf I'd have given it to Tierce. She collects pelts, right?

I'm in the midst of grading papers and getting ready for meetings this week. Don't expect actual content from me before Tuesday at the earliest. (Unless I'm procrastinating and in that case yell at me to finish my work!)

But how will I know who is scum and where to vote?

Also, Amrun's "I can't believe you people think I'm scum because of a sitewide activity issue" was super town because I went through something extremely similar and I never ever would have considered saying it in a scum game. She probably knew it would look bad as she was giving the excuse and she didn't give a shit because she thought the suspicion on her really was that ridiculous--towntowntown.

- Des

She does it regardless of alignment.

That's great, does she sound as perfectly frustrated-town as she did in her responses to Nautilius as both alignments also?

- Des

Let's put this bluntly and shortly because I am still on edge about someone doing this: Amrun has used grief for the death of a family member as an excuse not to post as scum,

and

felt perfectly okay with others giving her a pass for it. While I do not doubt she has RL issues, she is not above using them as an excuse and throwing a tantrum because she knows it hits a chord.

That's a pretty big statement to make. You better have something to back that up (like meta) then just speculation.

Which head is acting like Messiah?

Neither.

So why make that statement?

[SafetyDance]

@mod - this slot will be V/LA until Sunday the 6th. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Tick tock, Empire.

Also, Amrun's "I can't believe you people think I'm scum because of a sitewide activity issue" was super town because I went through something extremely similar and I never ever would have considered saying it in a scum game. She probably knew it would look bad as she was giving the excuse and she didn't give a shit because she thought the suspicion on her really was that ridiculous--towntowntown.

- Des

She does it regardless of alignment.

That's great, does she sound as perfectly frustrated-town as she did in her responses to Nautilius as both alignments also?

- Des

Let's put this bluntly and shortly because I am still on edge about someone doing this: Amrun has used grief for the death of a family member as an excuse not to post as scum,

and

felt perfectly okay with others giving her a pass for it. While I do not doubt she has RL issues, she is not above using them as an excuse and throwing a tantrum because she knows it hits a chord.

This sort of thing is why I think Amrun has one of the widest scumranges on site.
Also there was flash (voideaten) where she did a very good 'howmanyscum.'

I have no problem with scum doing this, since town do it, and scum should be allowed to do anything town do.

[SafetyDance]

Thought of the Day: If Tammy costs 1 dragon, how many does Shadoweh cost?

[SafetyDance]

I'm going through reading the archives of all the games everyone here has been in but in reverse-alphabetical order so I'm not up to Amrun yet, so yes, it needed explaining.

Also how you phrase it is important. "as scum" or "when scum" have two very different meanings.

Edit - ask Tammy.

[SafetyDance]

As for Alfred Borden's post, learn to distinguish between them. That was Llamarble, not Empire, who is

the one

who has been V/LA and made their latest post.

@mod - this

slot

will be V/LA until Sunday the 6th. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Tick tock, Empire.

@mod - this

slot

will be V/LA until Sunday the 6th. Apologies for the inconvenience.

[SafetyDance]

I'm not ignoring you, you're ignoring this game.

Oh, please. What a remarkable effort you're going to to misunderstand what they actually said. Nice one about their reads, too!

macmollie, you're voting Town. Scum Garruk had no reason to push a pissed-off Tammy off me when they did.

tierce I just iso-ed them and I didn't see where they did that?

They did. They have a pretty damn good reason to think I'm Town.

OMGUR!

1828/1838/1845 is completely irrelevant to the 21 players not called Garruk or Tierce.

Garruk is not obvious town.
Tierce is not obvious town.

[SafetyDance]

Edit - ask Tammy.

No, I'm asking

you

, because you're voting Amrun and turned to me like what I was saying was something completely off the wall that I was "speculating" on. Why, when

you

are voting Amrun, do you care that

I

say that Messiah Complex's Townread on her actually has faulty reasoning because it's a null behavior?

Then you really are not following at all.

Spoiler:

Bah. MC beat me to the thread. I'm still posting this:



My scum reads are:
Garruk - haven't like their early play, from their reactions to others, their conciliatory nature which appears fake, hydra flak. Wasn't getting any town ffelings from any of the rest of the posts and I'm not sure what to make of the reaction to the deadline reaction to their wagon.
Syrana - I'm positive one of the early Syr/Tammy/Shadow/Tierce party is scum and it's not Shadow and when Syr wasn't pretending this was a social function he was tunnelling. Scum.
Alfred - flip-flopping reads constantly based on the shadows reflected on the tea-leaves (meta). No.
Goat - overall play typified by the hypocrisy in 1075

Anyway it's all irrelevant.

Since I'm not playing the game and am terrible at it anyway I realise the error of my ways, so I will be sheeping Tammy all day. Her rage is sincere and her ego, just perfect. So really, it's a no brainer. mmmBOP

Was Shadoweh drunk? I really do not fathom any of that mess.

She was another 1-shot neighborizer and chose to do it overnight and failed?

That's okay.
Let's vote Amrun together!

Displaced doesn't look like a scumbag.
I'll make a new list tonight or tomorrow.

Okay!

VOTE: amrun

VOTE: amrun

And regardless at whomever the hell you are targeting, if you make a statement like you made about Amrun, I don't know why you wouldn't supply the relevant information to back it up in that very post. Not everyone has read every game on this site so yes, it is speculation.

[SafetyDance]

My point is that you don't get the luxury to sheep Tammy when you were Townreading Amrun Yesterday, not give any reasoning for this vote, and then stomp your foot at me when I was making a statement about Amrun's

null

reaction to Nautilius.

You had a null read on Tammy, a scumread on Alfred Borden, a Townread on Amrun, and end up sheeping Messieurs Borden and Tammy onto Amrun. WTF? I don't care about your little ego trip, if you're going to not play the game just get out. You were doing something Yesterday, but Today you are absolutely refusing to do anything worth reading. Get off that high horse and explain yourself.


Also

Llamarble

was being active. Since you apparently don't know their posting styles, I'm telling you that Llamarble has been posting, Empire was the one V/LA. Accept a reality that has no bearing in the game and

move on

.

...And not being "obvious Town" by your standard mean that I cannot explain how Garruk is obvious Town by my standard, from my point of view? Well done, excellent job there. Come now. Why would Garruk come into D2 defending me as they did from Tammy if they were scum? Why would they do that if they were my scumpartners? The logical following is that, if it does not make sense for them to do it as scum (which it does not, and you are free to argue with me on why it does make sense from your PoV since you are calling it "nonsense"), then we are both Town.

Not rocket surgery.

Whatever. I have better things to do than attempting to extract responses from someone who decides to not play the game. Just do everyone involved a favor and don't sign up for games if you're going to be all pouty that someone called you out on being useless. Self-fulfilling prophecies are nice like that.

!Syr, AGar a question for you. And me and my absolutely appalling puns will be over there. (>")>

My high horse? Smith, grant me strength. You are so fucking high up on your high horse you could steeplechase the damn Wall.

Petunia dear, I told everyone how I was voting in my first post. I quoted why I was voting when I voted. I re-quoted everything for you when you asked. It's there in black and white so for a rocket scientist I'm surprised - no, amazed -that you can't grasp it. Maybe you're acting like this because you're jealous I'm sheeping Tammy and not you. You're acting the exact same as she is/was. Oh fucking surprise, Tierce is throwing her body weight around trying to get someone else to leave. Sorry Petal, I'm not quitting on your whim and I'll let you in on a secret: if you keep trying to bully people to quit (you've tried it on Amrun) it loses its effectiveness. You're right I'm clearly not playing the game because I'm clearly not part of your elite circle, or not doing anything right by your stringent guidelines on how-town-must-play-every-game. But that is old news, Tammy already did all that. Thus why everything important today is in the hands of Tammy because she already stated all that my-way-is-the-right-way nonsense so her majesty of the Quill and Tankard has first dibs. You can fight her for it though.

Clearly, I thought I was attempting to engage today as well and reading but according to Tierce, obviously not. If I'm not doing that...then I might as not bother trying to do it as well. So if you want me to lurk AND just sheep Tammy, so be it. Which would be ironic because I would be just like you then. You coast along, rearing your head like a whale every now and then, keep admitting you need to catch up, haven't caught up, don't think anyone or anything is scummy, not even bothering to vote yourself....but you become more active when you need to patronise others or start having a strop over people not automatically town-reading you.

Frangipani, Messiah's read on Amrun has NOTHING to do with your statement in 2050and why I brought it up. You accused Amrun of using personal tragedy as an excuse for being

scum

. That is a big statement to make, regardless of her actual alignment. If you're going to make such a claim, then yes, Burden of Proof is on you and should have been offered straight up, not half a day later when prodded about it. As I already stated too, there's a world of difference between using that as an excuse/reason

as

scum opposed to

when

she was scum. You can interpret that completely differently.

The whole Garruk/Tierce wink-wink nudge-nudge exchange that I mentioned, means sweet fuck all to the rest of us. None of us can assume anything from it unless you explain it. Your whole defending-me-is-town argument? Ludicrous. You want damn logic:

Person X defending Person Y from Person Z does not equal Persons X + Y are town. Holy Frey pies, Batman! if that was the case everyone would be doing it and then it would be rendered null. Not to mention, the fact it is YOU championing this, who's not really subjective (because its a townread on you) is amazingly egotistical. You are not mod-confirmed, Garruk isn't mod-confirmed, none of you have even claimed so no, I'm not going to trust you just because Tammy was going to go all Alliser Thorne on your ass and your wight in shining armour came along to defuse the situation.

And seriously your egotistical, indignant condescension towards others no knows bounds. Just because YOU have spent

years

playing and interacting with many of the players here doesn't mean we all have, nor should we suddenly develop out of nowhere the ability to detect which tom or dick said what in a hydra. The V/LA message said SLOT, not head, and you brought it up and immediately they reared their head, which is why I thought it worthy of mentioning. I frankly couldn't give a fuck about different styles, I view a hydra as one person and I'm going to judge them as one. Judging them as two players is just giving them more power than they already have.

[SafetyDance]

And that's why you don't follow Tammy.

I'm V/

LA

mostly, mod seems to have forgotten the message I sent him. Should have more time after the weekend ends to read from day start, so on Monday.

[SafetyDance]

I'm here. Will have more time to post today after work.

[SafetyDance]

My laptop is now kaplooie, well hopefully just the power supply. So I'm /LA for a while.

So this will be brief, I know you like it so.

Still don't trust Garruk, which rolls on to Tierce I guess. The semi-claim is a little better but I thought they were meant to be full claims or none.
Kanye has been epitomising coasting all game imo, I don't like the late day 2 stuff of asking people for town-reads. Benmage is skimming too post-Thor stuff.
Spyrex hammer was bad but so was that whole quicklynch.....
Ooba would be a good lynch because I don't think the D1 heat has gone away.
Alfred epitomes opportunism. Been on every large wagon. (Ooba, SD, Thor, Amrun)
I can see PAJ and Ellleheathen as scum atm too.
Oh and then there's Syr/TA.

Unless Nautilius is a ninja, they didn't kill last night.
I'd also like to try and guess why Mollie was killled. That seems a bit left field to me with 3 players in game claiming some sort of pr.

I can believe the mods trolling. I mean, I have a 1-person QT...

[SafetyDance]

I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!

Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."

You do realize that, right?

See: Benmage & The Self-Vote, Jan 13, The Wire.

[SafetyDance]

Wait, I thought SpyreX says he quickhammers regardless of alignment...

Did I miss him saying something about only doing it as town?

And in my SELFVOTE defense, when I had only been doing it as town for years, I publicly rescinded that strategy in MDiscussion as being too borderline cheap... and in the WIRE, I never mentioned my past selfvoting meta.

The point is that you knew you did something for years only as town, and broke that tell/habit/whatever for a big game. Like this one. The stakes are higher in a large theme game and I don't doubt that people will try anything here...again.

Alfred epitomes opportunism. Been on every large wagon. (Ooba, SD, Thor, Amrun)

More like caused every wagon we've been on to become large.
Pay attention.

How do you fit all that ego in there?

speaking of alchemist, the alchemist is not secrely syryana right? is there anyone who still believes that?

Why would we not believe that?

[SafetyDance]

Alfred epitomes opportunism. Been on every large wagon. (Ooba, SD, Thor, Amrun)

More like caused every wagon we've been on to become large.
Pay attention.

I wouldn't brag when the only lynches we have had have been mislynches.

Unvote, vote: ooba

SafetyDance is a good vote.
VOTE: SafetyDance

We can do better than Ooba.

Thor's probably the least bad of the major wagons right now since my last talk with 'marble had lessened my scumread on ooba considerably.

Vote: Thor

VOTE: Amrun

Holy persuasiveness batman!

[SafetyDance]

I'm also confused with:

Did Syry get replaced by Alchemist or is that mechanical?

Yes and yes :p

Wasn't the conclusion that people came to was they are one in the same? :/

[SafetyDance]

I don't actually have an *any* read on Zed. I'd be inclined to vote just based on that. Would reduce the noise pollution. Will read back when I can do more than just skim. I will not be voting Spyrex.

[SafetyDance]

Please don't speed lynch today. Should have a window to go over the game 7-10pm tonight. Otherwise Friday-day sometime (around lunch).

[SafetyDance]

TA = Syr though, yeah?

[SafetyDance]

I'm still happy to lynch Syryana. You people are far too whimsical to change your minds based on a claim. People now throwing out all their reads from the last two days just to lynch someone because of a hammer is bad too. Spyrex is town.

If he's (Syr/TA) not going to be lynched now, can people go back to Zed?

Vote: Zdenek

[SafetyDance]

I wouldn't brag when the only lynches we have had have been mislynches.

I'm not proud, but Safetydance is peddling stupidity and needed a good mocking.

Elle read has mostly been me (Marble). She just has a lot of "gee, this is impressive if she's scum" posts.

Fuck off, you're not untouchable or mod-confirmed. So ofc everything you do is up for scrutiny.

Empire. You have two posts to convince me you are Town. I'm done with this lurky BS, it's getting worse everyday, and Friday and Saturday are past. Where are your thoughts about the game?

The same ultimatum goes for you, Syryana. Don't care what are your RL conditions. Shape up or GTFO.

This is funny. Your constant consistency in doing this nulls any effect this may have and it just comes across as playing to a plan and false.

SafetyDance, I still want to know why you chose Nautilus.

Why? You seem to be in the minority here (only one to bring it up) and it's funny that when there's a wagon forming on you, this is the only thing you persist with. I'm not going to indulge in any role-fishing to reeasons to a scumspect.

SpyreX:

I'll admit I don't really trust myself to read Spy in this game as I find his playstyle generally to be hard to read. I agree that the hammer thing is null (I don't remember if it's been mentioned yet or if someone else has brought it up since then, but he did the same thing in Maf.Puppy as town)

Oh gawd. He was

that

game-thrower in lylo. Now I remember.

At least he seems to be playing this game.

Please don't speed lynch today. Should have a window to go over the game 7-10pm tonight. Otherwise Friday-day sometime (around lunch).

Deadline Date: 25th of October at 16:05 EDT

just throwing that out there

And? 4pm on Friday the 25th isn't lunchtime?

i also note commute + no kill when syryana was a pretty likely target for N1

You're talking out of your ass. He was unable to be a target from the end of the day!

[SafetyDance]

Will take that, though think it was stumbled upon.

Quadz didn't visit Tierce last night, or anyone else.

Feeling better about Kanye now. Shadow, less so.

vote: Zdenek

[SafetyDance]

Care to explain how you've now claimed two Track results, and one of them is weirdly specifically about a Tracker's non-targets?

This is for you Tierce.

You're regressing, you should re-learn.

I have a shared Bulletproof ability. X

No one died during Night 3

Did you forget what you claimed? I'm starting to doubt that would be a surprise now. It is hardly your beloved rocket science to put two + two together.

And I didn't claim to use the trackyesterday, I used Snare/Block. Naut didn't do any killing or anything at all just like last night quadz didn't go anywhere.

Well done for ignoring the actual statement and zero in on the speculation!

What thrilling explanations we should be getting from this.

That you're an idiot? And fuck you (for 3066). So hypocritical considering YOUR play day 1 and 2.

[SafetyDance]

Also also why did you accuse zdenek of role fishing for asking why you chose nautilus to track, then come out today and say quadz did nothing?

Um, what? I've been claiming my results since the start of D2. After I was made to claim D1 I'm pretty sure that was what was expected of me. If it wasn't then I'm quite annoyed, I would have kept quiet otherwise like everyone else. No idea how you can connect revealing your own information as role-fishing but whatever. I have enough headache with Tierce to try and make sense of YOUR ramblings.

And why would I track or block one of my scum reads when they know what my reads are, know I have use of them and would simply avoid doing anything?

And a triple also, sometimes following Tammy onto a wagon brings about awesome results.

VOTE: spyrex

Vote-camping without a reason should be followed? Riiiight...

[SafetyDance]

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

[SafetyDance]

Congratulations on the unnecessary ad hominem attacks when you're the one with crappy wording and lack of knowledge on how roles work, SafetyDance. You're a real gem to interact with.

It really pains you to not have all the answers, doesn't it~

Touché.

[SafetyDance]

*sigh* basic mafia theory, man. You out tracks if they give you pseudo-guilties, not pseudo-innocents, unless another claim contradicts your results or it's fullclaim time.

Curious to see how he responds to Garruk's question.

I love how everyone's a hindsight expert and no one said boo D3.

I don't need to respond to GR, since he's being stupid because there's no confusion or contradiction.

Yesterday was Day 3. Today is Day 4. Therefore day 3 IS yesterday and yesterday was when I claimed to have blocked Naut D2.

Can't have visited Naut and Quadz on the same night, they would be kinda impossible.

[SafetyDance]

Congratulations on the unnecessary ad hominem attacks when you're the one with crappy wording and lack of knowledge on how roles work, SafetyDance. You're a real gem to interact with.

It really pains you to not have all the answers, doesn't it~

Pouts and sheeps Tammy just to 'show us all' what a good player she is, then critics her when she jokes about sheeping her being a good thing.

Man, aren't you a real ray of sunshine when people aren't satisfied with your play. I would hate to see you lurk for several days again and then cuss me off for calling you out on your lurking!

What ability did you use on Nautilius and what ability did you use on quadz?

Coming from Miss Haven't-had-a-scum-read-in-four-days, you're hardly a paragon of perfect play so you can hardly talk. If you don't want snark returned don't make it to begin with. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen etc.

I'm not part of whatever clique you've got going here that panders your haughty ego, so no, not going to accept your crap.

[SafetyDance]

So SafetyDance if you roleblocked Quadz last night because you were suspicious of him, why does it not worry you that we are missing a kill last night?

That should make you a little more worried about quadz, not feel utterly nonchalant about the whole business.

I cant use a 1shot block twice. Nice try.

Join me on SafetyDance then? It seems like he cannot keep his story straight. He should just be saying "I did X. My bad." It sounds like he's trying to figure out what the fuck he did himself.

Keep my story straight? It's never changed.

Tell me, who the fuck are you and what have you done with the Titus who replaced into Light-Kun's game?. He was actually intelligent and bothered to read.

[SafetyDance]

dear titus [pls shut the fuck up abt dancechan until he manages to coherently claim his shit thyvm.

You'll have to troll harder than that...

[SafetyDance]

Okay SafetyDance

You tracked

You blocked

You vendored

So SafetyDance if you roleblocked Quadz last night because you were suspicious of him, why does it not worry you that we are missing a kill last night?

That should make you a little more worried about quadz, not feel utterly nonchalant about the whole business.

I cant use a 1shot block twice. Nice try.

THEN WHY DID YOU CLAIM UNLESS NAUTILUS WAS A NINJA HE DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE NIGHT TWO?

AND WHEN ZDENEK ASKED YOU WHY YOU TRACKED NAUTILUS YOU DIDN'T CORRECT HIM THAT YOU BLOCKED HIM?

LIKE FFS.

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

SafetyDance, I still want to know why you chose Nautilus.

LIKE FFS

SSK checking in here. In addition to SD's lack of clarity regarding his claim, this hydra also thinks he's scum because of the difference of his play as compared to Lucid Dreamers Mafia. In Lucid Dreamers, he was way more active and making cases more on everyone. And you know, so explicit with how roles worked that he actually made a table of all the actions that had been performed. So in conclusion

Vote SafetyDance

-SSK

Haha, hadn't realised this was an open setup with accountable game mechanics! I'm scum because I haven't made a table, ya got me!

A+! Give Nat a sticker! Would play with again! Voting for scummies!

Fuck knows what Titus is on but I'd like some. Send express to East Coast plz, k thx.

[SafetyDance]

I'd probably be down with a safety dance lynch. Meta him. I read through that game Garruck mentioned, and safety dance wanted to lynch chkflip for lol not playing the game. He's also been active in at least one other game all month while doing nothing but lobbing sanctimonious insults in this game.

He's not some blundering VI fool. He knows how to play this damn game and I don't know why he's being written off as the town idiot when he's patently not a fucking idiot.

I swear if he's scum. Words. There will be words.

I know I'm not an idiot, it does get tiresome having to respond to all the idiot comments, it does rather limit scumhunting, and I'd much prefer to do that with the limited time I have. I love your meta arguments btw, they change more than kanye's reads. <3

[SafetyDance]

VOTE: safetydance

Lol.
>explain for you again for umpteenth time
>still get voted

Are you reading what is currently happening? The point is for SD to answer what he did. In addition to trying to answer for him, you've thrown a question in there drippping with placating tone.

I have answered. Several times. The only problem is people like you who are close-minded and don't want to read, don't want to listen, and far happier painting your own story and version of events. Or just conform to the current faux-anger like Tammy n Shadoweh which is all the rage atm.

Lynch me then, prove me right and everyone of you wrong for your shitty claims against me. Not once have I lied, not once has my story changed despite your best assertions. I suppose this is happening now because it is an easy lunch when the group stops thinking (or hasn't started). You (collective you) got what you wanted now anyway, with me having used up everything, with "proof" that nothing came of. All rather planned. Irony is I'm the only one who has fully claimed and been transparent in their actions, whilst most of you have sat on your hands despite the likely that everyone has some form of abilities one way or the other. Fucking hypocrites.

Well whatever, consider an ITYS in the flip. Tierce probably says it best too:

This is as much clarification as we need. Roleblocked Nautilius, tracked quadz,

has no idea what he's doing otherwise,

and is collecting a pile of opportunistic votes hiding behind :justice:. The sad part is that some are bound to come from Town.

And still 20 players to go. Joy.

...if I thought he was scum, I'd be voting him. My "suggestive" wording is hardly hazy.

[SafetyDance]

Btw This is lucid dreamer the game I was in with Nat where I made "the table". This is the game mechanic:

Game Setup

There are two factions in this game:

Lucid Dreamers

and

Nightmares

.

Nightmares

are scum.

Dreamers

are town.

Each Night, every player will send in a list of three possible "dreams", which will take place of night actions.

To prevent game-breaking, the following restrictions are in effect:

• After you send in the dreams, I will comment on each one (with regards to whether or not I accept it and any other notes about that dream), and send it back to you.
  
• You will then choose which one you prefer to implement.
  
• Dreams must be in "dream format", which means "
  I become a dayvig
  " is not allowed. However, "
  I dream that when I wake up, I will have a gun
  " is allowed.
  
• All dreams will be subject to my interpretation. For example, the gun in the last dream probably won't be a killing gun; it would probably just be a paintball gun that causes the target to only post in a certain color. Or maybe the gun
  would
  shoot a bullet and it would force the target to dream of being healed the next night (aka an effective roleblock).

In addition to the above, the following mechanics are in effect:

• The game is a Night start.
  
• The Nightmares will have a factional nightkill (except on Night 0).
  
• No dreams will be allowed that will cause any player to not enjoy the game.
  
• No dreams are allowed to kill another player
  - only the Nightmares' factional kill can directly cause a death during the night.
  
• No dreams will be allowed that will cause the mod to lie about anything (a.k.a. Vote Counts and flips are guaranteed to be correct).
  
• The goal of this game is to enjoy it - the more interesting/creative your dream is, the more powerful I may allow it to be.

Clarifications added after the game has started:

• You may reuse dreams subsequent nights.

Spoiler: List of Role PMs

You are a

Dreamer

! You have enjoyed experiencing the world of dreaming and letting your desires roam free. However, someone has started messing with your dreams and you haven't been able to completely control your own dreams recently. With the help of some fellow Dreamers, you have decided to try to take back control of your own dreams by rooting out the Nightmares in the land of the living!

During the Night, you are able to dream about something, and it just may come true! Each Night, send me a list of three actions in "dream format" (as if you were dreaming about the action). I will respond to each of your actions, and after that, you will choose which one you would like to use. Please note all of the mechanics of the dreams listed in the game setup post on the game thread.

You win when all of the Nightmares have been eliminated and at least one Dreamer is left alive.

Please confirm your participation by choosing and sending in your first list of dreams for Night 0.

You are a

Nightmare

! You have enjoyed experiencing the world of dreaming and letting your desires roam free. However, your desires are a little dark and need to feed on the Dreamers' desires. With the help of your fellow Nightmares, you have decided to take down the Dreamers and let your Nightmares roam free!

During the Night, you are able to dream about something, and it just may come true! Each Night, send me a list of three actions in "dream format" (as if you were dreaming about the action). I will respond to each of your actions, and after that, you will choose which one you would like to use. Please note all of the mechanics of the dreams listed in the game setup post on the game thread.

Additionally, as a Nightmare, you may communicate with your fellow Nightmares at night here. The Nightmares have a factional nightkill that

cannot

be used during Night 0.

You win when the Nightmares equal or outnumber the Dreamers and at least one Nightmare is left alive.

Please confirm your participation by choosing and sending in your first list of dreams for Night 0.

So no known pr roles, everything purely up to the mod's interpretation. Incidentally Nat was endgamed in mylo. So if we're using that game as standard meta then this level of incompetency is standard town game.

[SafetyDance]

the problem is that you changed from a track to a roleblock on naucho n2. you have displayed that you know what a ninja is, so your comment does not make any sense unless you were originally saying that you had tracked naucho.

I did not change. Your argument falls to pieces there.

Please clear this up so that we can go back to lynching scum.

Whether I got ninja or strongman mixed up in the initial post is irrelevant to what I used N2 and what I claimed I used. It has never changed.

[SafetyDance]

PLAY THE GODDAMN FUCKING GAME IF YOU'RE TOWN.

FFS.

You know what SD I read that Lucid Dreamers game. Not only did you want to lynch Ckflip for not playing, you also said that Mutley's continued not doing anything in that game should not be rewarded with you all letting him live. And then. AND THEN when ckflip wasn't clear in his answers to you, you went after him for not being clear about his actions.

So, take you sanctimonious bullshit and play the goddamn game or hang.

For Fuck Sakes, you know how to play and yet you're acting like the most puerile Vi this game and I'm just literally fucking sick and tired of every single time you post when it's not actually doing anything in this game. Also, also, you claim to have little time to do anything here,

but you sure are managing plenty of time to play another game.

I can't believe people policy lynched thor over this lurksack day one. I hate you all.

I'd love for the bolded to be a bannable offence for breaking one of the site rules, you've done it twice now, but I doubt it considering who you're in league with. That playing another game has anything to do with this game is mind-boggling logic anyway. My activity has been the same sire-wide and I try to (and do) respond to both games at the same time. So other than for game-banning offences, there is no reason to mention it.

So why are you assuming I'm not trying? You're not me so fuck off with your lies. I didn't come into this day wanting to answer petty little questions or accusations by people pretending to be dense or listen to how I'm lying or not keeping my story straight.

I can't wave a magic wand around and solve this game for you or anyone, I certainly can't do anything if I find myself having to defend myself constantly. Not everyone can sit around pressing f5 all day and night on a thread like yourself. If there's only limited time to catch up at and that's spent responding to asinine crap such as yours posts then there's little time do anything else. That is a fact. Anyway, any time I do post my reads they are ignored or criticised but I'm scummy for revealing everything WHICH APPARENTLY I'M NOT MEANT TO DO ANYWAY!!! So fuck off. I'm the most transparent person in this game.

My sanctimonious bullshit? Oh please your play reads nothing BUT fake, your faux-appeals read fake, your faux-rage reads as fake. You are so hypocritical, what have you done in this game other than town read your buddies, spend more time reading other games and vote-camping whilst pretending to fill in the story after. I mean you're actually trying to us BOP on me. It's amusing. Make up your mind as to what I am ffs. So contradictive.

You're whole meta argument is ludicrous. Not only are you basing everything here on ONE read in ONE game, you have to assume that everyone plays EVERY game the same, that EVERY game IS the same and filled with the EXACT same players. Which is a ridicules assumption. I suggest you try (because I'm not sure if you

can

) and go spot the differences between this game and Lucid Dreamer.

Kasuki is doing SFA, Titus is doing SFA all, TA is doing SFA, Elle is doing SFA, most of the hydras are spectators, Kanye picks a name out of a hat every time he logs in, you and Tierce don't actually think anyone is scum.

There are people here lurking harder and posting less than I, but ignore them. There are people playing more concerned about have tea-parties and reading other games than this one, but ignore that. There are people here who just sheep whatever the popular mood is and not have an individual thought for themselves, but ignore that. Just ride your confirmation-bias train all the way to the station.

But you know rag on me with your faux rage and petty rants if it makes you feel better but if you start lecturing about play then I'd suggest looking in the mirror first and stop acting like the pot calling the kettle black.

[SafetyDance]

Kanye, you're agreeing with me that SD is being confusing and then voting me. What the hell?

SD, use plain language. I gave you a form. It will be crystal clear if you do that.

If it is not crystal clear to you now, after several times repeating myself, then you are even dumber than your play right now is suggesting. Go grab Tammy's VI badge, she's looking desperate for someone to give it too.

[SafetyDance]

The emphasis in the second quote is mine, btw.

Wtf. I claimed my night two action yesterday. IT WAS DAY THREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SAYING THAT I'M LYING BECAUSE YESTERDAY WAS NOT DAY THREE!!!!!!!

WTF IS THIS SHIT.

Seriously? And I'm the fucking VI here?

Fuck sake. This game has been a real eye-opener that was for sure in regards to experienced players here. Just wow.

[SafetyDance]

Are you reading what is currently happening? The point is for SD to answer what he did. In addition to trying to answer for him, you've thrown a question in there drippping with placating tone.

Says the guy who commented on how the dead miller was obvtown. Reading is super hard and I'm trying to cut it out of my diet, but you idiot, 'the links go to' refer to the links SafetyDance posted and what was in those linked posts. It's not answering for him, it's the ability to click a blue link and read what it says.

Regardless, being confusing in your words isn't scummy. Lucid Dreamers is just one game. I thought I'd look at The Wire at the same time and SD is delightfully unhelpful in that game, so he probably has townie mood swings or something.

SAFETY DANCE DANCE RESOLUTION CAN YOU STOP TRYING TO WIN THE LEAST ENJOYABLE PLAYER SCUMMY AND TALK ABOUT WHO YOU FIND SCUMMY THERE ARE LIKE 14 PEOPLE ATTACKING YOU IT CAN'T BE FUCKING HARD TO WANT TO LYNCH SOME OF THEM. The more YOU keep acknowledging this dumb argument without doing anything resembling playing mafia the more you're gonna get hated on. Your pro-defense work isn't working, it turns out swearing at the emotional players doesn't get them to lynch you less.

Hi person who's stolen my caps lock key. Finding plenty of people scummy was the problem in the first place. LOL. Ignoring all this? LMAO. I was being callled scummy for not responding quick enough. Fucking hell, damned whatever I do it's amazing.

Also, if you care to look at my iso pre all this, I'm sure you'd find I did have scum reads. But ignore that please. Also, good job ignoring the VC too, where you wont have noticed WHERE I'VE PUT MY VOTE ON.

Is logic annoying Tierce? We get ragemad at a lurker... But let an active lurker get a free pass.... Maybe I don't see the logic...

Yeah well after 130 pages, people being hypocrites doesn't shock me anymore.

[SafetyDance]

You use your x3?

I'm

one

-shot BP. Guess who was shot N1!

I have a shared Bulletproof ability. X times during the game, I can shield myself and one other player (remember Night 1? I do!). And I know where that kill MUST go. I can protect Syryana and myself for the next

two

Nights.

So give it over. This girl has quite the name to whisper~

waitwut?

It's called gambiting, love.

Or not getting your story straight! :asoiafplayerlogic:

Vote: Tierce

Vote: Titus

So this SD wagon has run its course, right? And we can all get back to finding scum?

I'm still in the process of putting together a Spyrex analysis that should be fruitful.

Cephrir beat you too it

I made a long post and then pushed the back key on my kindle. Drat.

Suffice to say, Titus, I knew Garruk had done something to me, realized they had done something else and were not a Town Rolestealer, and since I knew I had lost my abilities, I was obviously aware that last Night I couldn't have been the kill's target and had to reach through my gambit to unravel SD's claim. If I were blocked scum, I would have sat prettily on my BP claim and not bothered to be the first to interrogate him.

If scum had vanillized me N1, they knew I was BSing that multi BP claim and thus I wasn't the one who had been shot last Night because I'd be dead.

As it is, since I was not vanillized by SCUM on N1, I'm fairly sure I was already shot by them and that a missing kill last Night came from somewhere else.

Evidence that I was bulletproof? ISO me. I said I had time on D1 and was far too lax with things because I could afford to eat a kill. And they went and wasted a kill on me that early. <3

Nacho, I'm at a point where I need to review the game. I need sleep for two more hours and need to make space for visits after that. I'll go over this on the way into town.

How can you know Garruk visited you if all your abilities were blocked?

[SafetyDance]

I'd love for the bolded to be a bannable offence for breaking one of the site rules, you've done it twice now, but I doubt it considering who you're in league with.

Bugger off. Not only are accusations of favoritism ridiculous, but general activity patterns are not ban material and list mods pointedly do not take part in infraction discussions from games they're in. Go be an asshole elsewhere, quadz and I have better things to do than deal with this kind of shitty attitude.

The problem is not Tammy, the problem is clearly you when multiple people have asked you to be absolutely crystal clear and your responses are riddled with petty insults. Regardless of your alignment, my opinion of you has sunk by several points from your attitude in this game, and it's sad that I hope you're scum as some sort of justification for your uncalled for behavior.

I once had fun joking around with you, but you're revealing yourself to be a complete jerk who has no place inflicting himself on a game and on others. You're frustrated? You should well be, you've caused this.

Be clear. Crystal clear. No links. Did you roleblock Nautilius N2? Did you track Nautilius N2? Did you roleblock quadz08 N3? Did you track quadz08 N3?

How is it fair for a player having to defend themselves from an ongoing game? That is ridiculous. Thanks for proving yeah, it would have gotten nowhere.

Multiple people are saying I've done things that I haven't. If you had any sort of empathy or care for anyone else bar yourself, you'd at least consider what a shitty position that is to be in. Not only that, I have repeated myself, I have said the same thing over and over again. I don't need to say the same thing over and over again, again. If others can understand, why the hell can't you?

Whilst complaining about me, you haven't been a saint either yet it seems to be justified when you snark and insult people. The fucking double-standards. And I'm expected to just bend over and take it. Har.

But hey, it's just me with the problem, keep telling yourself that.


I would love the joking, happy Tierce back. The one who's a great mod. Not the egomaniac, condescending, haughty player that's in this game. As first game I've played involved you I really am feeling let down and disappointed.

Hey. Why don'tcha try reading? People don't give a lively shit WHEN you've claimed what. People are scumreading you because you've claimed two conflicting actions on the same gods damned slot.

No, I can't have claimed two conflicting actions because I've only ever claimed doing separate things, on different nights. There is no conflict on my end.

@ Goat: I didn't really care for that analysis. I was talking more about analyzing everyone's trajectory on Spyrex the entire day, not just lazily quoting various attempts to derail his wagon, which appears to be Cephrir's only criteria for scummy behavior re: Spyrex.

@ Tierce: He fucking used Titus' format and linked to the posts where he told us what he did. The only reason you are still confused is because you choose to be.

- Des

Goat here is actually me. It's the same thing you were suggesting doing. The people derailing the wagon are important, because its those that jump on that look like bussing. Such as Goat and GR.

And it was Tammy's format, not Titus. Titus is more confused than Tierce atm.

@ Tierce: He fucking used Titus' format and linked to the posts where he told us what he did. The only reason you are still confused is because you choose to be.

Look, at this point I just want an answer that will shut people up. I have my beliefs of what he did, but I want absolute certainty because the level of confusion is ridiculous. I don't want links, I want plain answers so we can move on. He's choosing not to do so and then complains people are dumb when he's being purposefully confusing and there are things that don't add up like talking about a roleblocked Ninja and not denying it when someone asks why he tracked Nautilius. I want to get that settled once and for all so we can keep playing the game we signed up for.

Okay SafetyDance

You tracked

You blocked

You vendored

People are confused and act dumb no matter what you give them.

[SafetyDance]

SafetyDance I don't give a fig who you're voting right now. Just stop talking about your dumb role and talk about scumreads. I'm not voting you either, I have a policy of lynching scum not idiots. Setting you on fire would improve everyone's quality of life though and it is soooo tempting.

Now let's lynch quadz. ^_^/

As it is, since I was not vanillized by SCUM on N1, I'm fairly sure I was already shot by them and that a missing kill last Night came from somewhere else.

If this is TrueFax, then we need to lynch Titus.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

---

Because I'm persistent and this is pissing me off, here's a timeline for SD's claim/strongman/ninja bullshit:

Day 3

Post #2457 - SD says "Unless Naut is a ninja, he's didn't do anything [Night 2]. Implication is a track of Naut.

Day 4

Post #3058 - SD tells us quadz didn't visit anyone Night 3.
Post #3080 - "And I didn't claim to use the trackyesterday, I used Snare/Block. Naut didn't do any killing or anything at all just like last night quadz didn't go anywhere."
Post #3085 - "Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2."

HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO SEE.

Titus, then SD, then Naut.

Fucking. Success.

[SafetyDance]

Naut, SD gains plenty as scum by being obtuse. He gains VI status. Look at his posts though. He is not playing like a VI. Yet people are pushing him as one.

Tierce, haven't read that part yet but how would you know permannce on Day 2 unless the mod pmmed you which would neuter the permanent roleblocker.

SD, no links, just type out what you did. What is SFA?

Looking forward to your analysis Messiah.


Also, I don't like all the subtle discrediting. I will bbl. Just had 5 minutes.

I'm being a VI by not being a VI just by people saying I'm a VI? What? Can you flap about any harder? You came into the game, saw which direction the river was running, your eyes got big like Christmas had come early and you jumped in.

Your quadz vote shows you don't even know what you're doing and your claim shows you haven't even bothered to iso your dead partner. He tried a similar tactic.

If you want to ignore me repeating myself that's fine, keep your act up but that's not me being obtuse. This is sweet fuck all.

I'm just not reading Safety Dance's posts because I'm trying to get back some of my sanity and don't want the headache. But you can absolutely mention that someone is being active in one game and not being active in another. My argument was one based on activity; the day I start comparing your posts in one game in another is the day you can argue that I'm breaking the rules because that would be.

You can't if it's complete bullshit (I'm staring at proof right now that it is) and if it's just activity then it doesn't even bare mentioning because it's irrelevant so why would you? It's an accusation I can't defend without breaking the rules myself. Therefore it shouldn't be allowed.

True Fax I wanted to pick Ygritte because she was really cool on the TV show, but I didn't recognize who she was on the wiki cause I didn't know her name and her wiki picture is so horrible it changed my mind right back.

I like the wiki for that reason (compared to other books-turned-shows/movies). It shows drawings or portraits based on actual character descriptions and not just a picture of whatever random actor the show casted.

[SafetyDance]

So if we're all finally on the same page and that's all out the way...why is quadz getting run up? It was seems to be quite the busy night and he didn't go anywhere. Doesn't make sense to me to run him up the day after. Especially over Zdenek/Titus if Elle's now town.

Not to sure what to make of the whole Tierce thing either. There's far too many people now involved, Elleh meant to perma-blocked her, Garruk did something that was detected despite being blocked, TA sent a coin her way and knows what she did with it despite any action being blocked...then there's all the crumbs/trails and knowing what others have done. It seems ridiculously OP even for this game. So yeah,


If Tierce knew N1 that Garruk visited her AND someone else (Elleh) then how if claiming to have been the kill target and having bp used up, would she not notice that?

Good chance she's third party of some kind. Calling it.

[SafetyDance]

You really are precious. It's not fearmongering, it's speculating that out of four people the odds are increasingly unlikely they are all town and there are problems with YOUR claim that you've chosen to ignore in lieu of just trying to insult yourself and puff your own ego up. Glass houses m'dear.

Unlike yourself, I deal with what's been put in front of me.

[SafetyDance]

Unless you bother to tell me what sort of problems you have with my claim, don't expect me to care~

All you had to do was look 3 posts up. Well done.

Tierce I couldn't have babies with you so I just targetted you in spirit okay
Safety: Do you thnk all the scum have active roles? Honestly I'm wondering if some 'actions' show up as nothing. I mean, would Garruk show up as targetting hito when he asked him about the moon base? People still want to lynch quadz because a nowhere track doesn't clear the person, also because he's floating like a leaf on the wind.

Tierce brought up she

thinks

was targeted for the night kill. She says she knows GR visited her, said she knows Elle visited her. So what you're saying is if a kill can be undetectable using w/e detecting action Tierce has. That would make sense, how?

There are a lot of people floating on the wind here. If quadz is guilty, Benmage or Kanye is the poster-child and Katsumi the protege. Where are the major wagons for them?

[SafetyDance]

I don't really care that this may be a 1v1, I know I'm town, so fine either order, though of course if it's a popularity contest I'll lose. If this is a last ditch throw of Quadz to take a townie with him, I don't quite understand Quadz' logic of picking me, who is arguably seen as low-hanging fruit. The reward doesn't really seem to match the cost. Not to mention the fact there's still 20 players in the game. One extra mislynch now only makes up for one of the two nights of no kills. Is that worth it?

If he's town, then I hope people rage at him, you know, consistency and all that stuff.

Despite what people are so eager to still think, I haven't mixed up anything. I got a result pm from Faraday last night, not the night before, so there's been no mistake on my end there. Which means my result on quadz

is

true. Also note his actual claim doesn't actually contradict MY claim, because if he was blocked, then there's the reason I got a result with him not going anywhere. So the only reason it's 1v1 is because Quadz believes

I

roleblocked him, which is just his (wrong) interpretation.

I notice Nautilius isn't saying if they used any ability night 2 and if it failed or not. Should have heard from them before.

I have no idea if it's even possible for me to track him back to me, is it? Sitill wouldn't explain his no result.

Although I don't understand why after this claim, Quadz didn't just leap on when he thought I claimed to roleblock, not wait a few days until the wagon built. Why wouldn't you make the 1v1 then and there...a 1v1 which people are already eager to push?

Anyway, around for a bit, have to respond/go over 8 pages of quotes

[SafetyDance]

And I said I am a self-Watcher where?

I know elleheathen targeted me because she said so and I know I lost my abilities at the end of Night 1. If she's lying scum and one of her scumbuddies was the one who vanillized me instead, more power to them...?

I know Garruk targeted me because they said so and I got evidence from it.

None of this requires me having a self-Watcher ability. It requires me having a brain and reading Night results and people's posts. And considering Faraday hates Watchers, why the hell would I claim that in the first place? Why are you so goddamn bitter that I can understand things that happened to me while you can't? ISO Garruk and elleheathen and I and try reading.

Now if you could stop whining that people target me for stuff instead of you, that'd be grand, because the one who is doing the ego trip thing is you.

Fairly sure any scum roleblocker would stop Titus Tonight if that were to happen; if she's Town, that specific action priority makes sense.

But anyway.

UNVOTE: Titus
VOTE: quadz08

You can't help yourself can you? Please, point out where there was any whining or me being bitter in the last 3 posts. There is nothing, nothing in any of my posts speculating about the interactions and roles

of four players

that even indicated that I had a problem with whom people are targetting. Actually prove it instead of running one of your smear campaigns. I think it is that amusing that your ego, or something, just can't let it slide that your word isn't take it as gospel. Unless it's some kind of reaction based on your alignment. Insecurity isn't exactly a town-tell.

I don't need your lecture about reading the thread. I am in it.

These are your discussions about N1 and GR:

Garruk: there are

no words

. Permanent?

@Tierce: Once, only.

I mean, it's perfectly obvious that something happened between Garruk and I that tells them I am Town

The way in which they said I'm Town (I know things you don't~) ...

Just curious, Tierce-y poo, but was our gift of use to you?

Your gift would've been nice, but I found out that more things happened N1 than I'd have liked. (Which makes your explicit defense wording at the start of D2 kind of puzzling, but I'm still not complaining, so etc.) I was talking about something else when I chided you and things made a lot more sense one Night in.

~cryptic business~

That said, I cannot stress Post 2886 enough.

Because I'm a smart cookie and some actions leave paper trails that do not require me being a tracker or a self-watcher.

So I've never mentioned self-watcher, but you have - twice. You yourself said above YOU'VE GOT EVIDENCE. So I am only going by what is in the thread. Garruk talks about leaving a gift ffs, that's not typical investigation!

Then there's your claim:

Look, let's make this simple for everyone.

I have a shared Bulletproof ability. X times during the game, I can shield myself and one other player (remember Night 1? I do!). And I know where that kill MUST go. I can protect Syryana and myself for the next two Nights.

So give it over. This girl has quite the name to whisper~

A

shared

bulletproof

Then there's the Day 3 "Don't need to talk about last night" at Day start.

Then the elle exchange, where she MENTIONS you:

Wow, take a chill pill.

You're my biggest townread. I asked you because I wanted your damn opinion. MY BAD.

And the reason I chose those four people to ask specifically, was because

they're my biggest townreads

and I wanted to know about their read on Tierce given that.

Because if Tierce is town - you need to kill me.

So no, ooba - I'm not concerned about being NK'ed. Because it benefits town for me to die if Tierce is town.

Where you respond:

...You're the one who targeted me N1, aren't you?

Oh, you

genius

.

THEN her claim:

Yes, because:

I'm Ygritte. Aligned with the realm.

Most important of my abilities: I'm a fixed and permanent roleblocker.

You know nothing.

Guess who I targetted?

Tierce.

Which was part of my disengaging - because it was in the last day that I saw Tierce as town.

You need to kill me.

That doesn't show hindsight, she told you (and us) her claim after you said someone had visited n1, and she then said it wouldn't even take effect n1 but afterwards (3310). That's confusing, especially combined with Garruk and then there's Syry thrown in too

Thus the reasons for my questions, thus the speculating where things don't match up. But you know, just brow-beat and bag someone (whilst turning around complaing of as-homs, lol!) that's not drinking your kool-aid. That's obviously your M.O.

[SafetyDance]

*sigh* basic mafia theory, man. You out tracks if they give you pseudo-guilties, not pseudo-innocents, unless another claim contradicts your results or it's fullclaim time.

Curious to see how he responds to Garruk's question.

What's there to say? We don't know what SafetyDance actually meant, and I'm not particularly concerned about him possibly claiming to have roleblocked me. I'll freak out about it when people start voting me for it. *shrug*

Here is says he isn't concerned but if he knows he's been roleblocked, why would he not be wanting to lynch me here, not a day and 70 posts after when a wagon formed?

Tierce, do you think quadz is the cop?

Yes. Who are you killing?

I'm not sure. I was going to kill quadz so you can see my indecision. >.> The way this is playing out, probably whichever of SD or quadz doesn't get lynched if the lynched one flips town.

When did you claim to have a vig shot? If you do, you do realise Titus lightrodded/global roleblocked all night actions last night so you can't kill. Has he clarified what happens if you waste a shot if you get it back?

So it boils down to a choice of either Quadz or SafetyDance.

If there was any town roleblocker that blocked Quadz - probably the best to claim that now.

And given the claimed abilities, macho cop vs JoAT who's used up all his abilities, it becomes an fairly easy choice. (If I was voting based on reads alone, I would vote Quadz - but it's 1:1 where we lose more if we're wrong about Quadz)

Unvote. Vote: SafetyDance

No it doesn't because you're not considering 1) your own reads or 2) that my claim doesn't contradict Quadz, Quadz is counter-claiming I didn't do what I say I did. It's not a clear 1v1. So why is preferring to lynch me the option here?

Of the two, I'd lean to voting SD (duh). Even if SD tracked Quadz last night, he should have tracked him to himself not to nowhere. I'm having trouble seeing what a scum quadz gains by lying to get SD lynched when it will only put his lynch off for a day.

You can track a player to yourself? Well that makes it easy. Quadz is either lying or been roleblocked.

As of right now, SD/quadz could be T v T. If SD is a total fuckup and misdid his actions, then he can be town while quadz is town. Getting clarity from SD should be the priority. If SD cannot be clear, then I see no harm in following Messiah's approach. If SD is scum, he'll have to make up actions and be caught. If quadz is lying, he will most likely be caught fudging the night claim. After all, all cops should receive my flavor name tonight.

(Of course, this doesn't rule out rolecops or scum joats, but it will be pretty close imo).

Yes it could be T v T, as only scum would know, but how if I fucked up my actions? I

TRACKED

last night. I got a

RESULT

. There is no fuck up, there is no need to clarify, we spent most of the fucking day on it. The only fuck up is Quadz' opinion and whether it's town wrong or scum motivated.

[SafetyDance]

Tammy, I am a one night global roleblocker.

When I trigger

, it will be obvious as all cops get my flavorname instead of their result.

Erm:

"Come. Come kill me if you can."

Try and kill me Alchemist. Just try. Bring your buddies Safety Dance and quadz.

Haven't you already claimed this is the phrase and it's already in use Titus?

This is Victarion not Varys Blackfyre, Benmage, he's already claimed it all.

and a joat with a roleblock

(Scumfuck!)

It really is amazing how quick your reads change. Yourself, Garruk, Kanye and Agar biggest culprits this game.

I voted you as soon as it was clear you had fucked up your fakeclaim. *shrug*

I didn't fuck it up and that still doesn't explain why if you are a cop with that result you didn't care beforehand, especially when all bar yourself had departed the wagon, or come and out your result before you were at L-2.

SD, do you have any cop action left?

I sincerely hope you mean Quadz here. Seriously, the Titus from Light-kun mafia was not this stupid. Were you just riding on the pony-tail of Dashie that game?

[SafetyDance]

Why? Lol:

*sigh* basic mafia theory, man. You out tracks if they give you pseudo-guilties, not pseudo-innocents,

unless another claim contradicts your results

or it's fullclaim time.

Curious to see how he responds to Garruk's question.

So you don't subscribe to your own advice.

I've always had my story straight and never confused what I did. I didn't fuck up, you haven't proved it, no one has, and you haven't even attempted to.

For someone so experienced it's incredibly lazy and bad play.

[SafetyDance]

I'm not sure what I can do to change minds, I mean, if you choose me so be it but if I did die I'd rather it be because Quadz is definitely scum and not because he's town and people have reverted back to derping this whole block/track n2/3 thing.

FMPOV, all those people who were voting quatdz before despite the fact he was tracked to going nowhere and you thought he was scum - why aren't you still on him now if this is a 1v1? He's the counter-claim and you're meant to have had a scum read on him? Doesn't weigh up.

I don't know what else. If you lynch me, when I flip, you'll know there's a scum roleblocker out there and it guarantees you have to kill quadz one way or the other (vig or lynch) which has the potential to lose two townies. If Quadz goes first then you will know if he's scum trying to save his own ass for one night, or if he flips town you will still know if there's a roleblocker out there and it doesn't necessarily mean I'm scum because my track result matches with what Quadz claimed, so there'd be no need to lynch there.

So it all comes backs to me NOT tracking last night...and you all unvoted before when you were complaining about you thinking I tracked when I used the block, so it's accepted then for people to jump off and look elsewhere but not now despite quadz claimed result showing he did exactly what I said he did last? Occam's Razor here would be we're both town since we both have the same story. If he's pushing the me lying story, then he should be the one lynched for it.

As for people wanting the day over quick, why wouldn't you want to take all the time you can for discussion? So what if it goes to deadline, if you're (town you're) already decided then it makes it even easier.

Anyway I'm knackered. Night.

[SafetyDance]

VOTE: SafetyDance

I did trigger with that phrase. No good came of outing that though. I never ever claimed my flavor unless Zdenek did.


Also in Lightkun's game it was shorter and I had a scum qt telling me what th fuck was going on.

just riding on the pony-tail of Dashie

Ok then...

I thought you were an idiot but now you're trying to interfere with cop testing by suggesting flavor. Lynch him with fire.

Of course, not admitting whether either flavor suggestion is real.

I'm not suggesting flavor eeeugh, this is an ASOIAF game, do you think people would not know what character said a phrase? Fuck even the ignorant could you know,USE A SMALL INVENTION CALLED GOOGLE. If you've full-claimed then why hide your role-name? IT HAS NO BEARING ON ALIGNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think that by uttering that phrase people haven't already guessed then that is complete folly and whilst your head is in the ground maybe you could something useful like drill for oil?

5% chance of both of you being town

- I'm just not feeling this - feels like this would require too many coincidences - 'Scum need to have roleblocked Quadz' , the day playing out the way it did. I'd still like to be through and remove the possibility of some going 'You should have waited for me to weigh in' on D5

I don't see how this is the least likely option. The counter-claim solely hinges on my lying and mixing up what I did on nights...which I haven't done, ever, and people had to have accepted that otherwise why unvote me in the first place, heck you weren't even on my wagon. Quadz could simply be one more sheep in the mix here who just happened to be blocked or whatever else. The scum-Quadz theory for his reasoning in doing this isn't much better either.

I'd be very disappointed if I'm lynched and he ends up town, but definitely not 95% surprised about it.

Also for this to be true then I have to be a full roleblocker with

a

vendoring skill unless Messiah is suddenly my partner too and this is all a ruse played out over night one between the most suspected person d1 still alive and a buddy? Which means their day one reads had to be an act? Lol

Why you choose the 60%>15% I don't know. Just remember you're only one vote, one voice tomorrow.

That's pretty no relevant to the game at all.

It was one of my roles, I had to marry someone by day two. I chose syryana and we shared a qt for a day before we got divorced by commute so we wouldn't die together as lovers.

Those two sentences do not agree with each other.

I'm still frustrated that AGar wasn't shot last night instead of "Faraday's troll-scum character".

Agar posted his character name...where?

ut not in such a fashion that it's relevant or I care in the slightest. This claim implies pretty strongly that SD is scum if it's true, so I will probably oppose lynching anyone other than the two of them. Unless some really attractive wagon that I desperately want anyway pops up.

It certainly does.

Vote: SafetyDance

I'm not really all that hyped about the SD wagon at the moment.

You're going to have to explain what happened here.

[SafetyDance]

PnJ, Why no lynch? If you're against the 1 v 1, then lynching another scum read is appropriate. Are you actually saying you have no scum reads outside of quadz/SD?

BenMage, I haven't got to the Alchemist yet in my read. Can you give me something besides The Alchemist's moronic push on me? I try not to lynch idiots solely for being idiots. SD has my vote because he's trying to derail the obvious way Quadz can prove himself as town. It seems like he's more against town unity and his clarity has been serving that purpose. I felt your frustration with Thor as I could see his play not being his best.

You are off you're rocker. There is no other way to describe it. ME, THE OTHER PERSON IN THIS "1V1" IS DISCUSSING WAYS WE CAN

BOTH

(THAT WORD MEANS QUADZ AND I) BE TOWN!!!

Spoiler:

Can someone explain why SafetyDance and quadz are being interpreted as 1v1?

Because it's not. A roleblocked player goes nowhere, not to themselves.

WHY IS THIS THE FIRST TIME (APART FROM ME) THIS HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP!!!!

It is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucking scummy that people have accepted this SOLELY has a 1v1 despite corroborating claims. FFS.

[SafetyDance]

well if he roleblocked Quadz N2, then w/e no point voting for Quadz. If N3, then yes, lynch Quadz. simple stuff

Quadz, nothing on this?

What's there to say? We don't know what SafetyDance actually meant, and I'm not particularly concerned about him possibly claiming to have roleblocked me. I'll freak out about it when people start voting me for it. *shrug*

if you knew that you were roleblocked, wouldnt you be a little bit more concerned here about whether or not he actually did roleblock you?

I did address this too

Okay, who is this "himself" that SafetyDance should have seen quadz visiting? Because quadz would never be seen visiting quadz if he was roleblocked by anyone.

Tammy is saying if SD tracked quadz, SD would've seen quadz go to SD.

Yeah, I got that now, that's why I wanted to check the meaning of 'himself'. Kind of puzzled why Tammy initially discounted the possibility of a scum blocker.

Anyway--I keep saying this. Still have friends over, we have a gaming night looming, I'll abide by my banner and be back in force tomorrow.

Benmage, yes, I have realized that there's something in the water. But I don't think ignoring the crazy and going immediately to The Alchemist is necessarily the best option. I still want to know why the heck was quadz/SafetyDance being sold as a 1v1 when their claims don't contradict each other. quadz's claim is a convenient one, but it's not damning and neither of them HAS to be lying.

Saying otherwise, which people have been doing, rubs me the wrong way

and I've only kept half an eye on the game for the past three days, so I don't get how people jumped to it so eagerly. A Town flip from either does not mean a scum flip on the other.

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS. Hallelujah, sanity prevails. And it's Tierce too.

I mean seriously, If Quadz had said that he had gone and visited Faraday and got a town result, then THAT would be a true 1v1! How
his claim matching mine makes it a 1v1 BEFORE you even consider this or that we're both telling the truth I don't know. Seriously, I can't follow the logic here:

>run me up because you've misinterpreted what I say
>I explain why you're wrong and misinterpreting
>you believe me, wagon dissipates
>quadz gets run up and claims exactly what I said he did
>my wagon forms again



Garrul, Agar, Ooba, all look bad on this, so do Larry, Curly and Moe but they have their own problems.

[SafetyDance]

Syryana has been a scumread of mine since Day 1, I don't believe there was anything in his Day 1 posts that screamed town, so I am happy to vote there if Titus isn't a thing. Katsuki has done nothing to help StupendousMan slot and even Amished it, so would be happy there too.

As for this being RB madness, well everyone's becoming linked to each other now aren't they? I don't trust any of Garruk, Elle, Agar or Quadz now, so wouldn't mind knowing their alignment and if their claims are true, it would help clear others.

Since the majority of the list has claimed one way or the other, I'd be suggesting full claiming tomorrow, since it will tie stories down sooner rather than later.

[SafetyDance]

Oh yeah, leaning scum-read Borden and I wish I could swing one way or the other on the three hydras; PNJ, Naut, MC. Benmage to stop popping up to just post sense occasionally instead of active lurking would help too!

[SafetyDance]

SD, I said you could be an idiot thus voiding any one v one status. In that post, I was adopting PnJ's view to show it made no sense.

You obviously didn't read the thread. Cops get my flavorname. Thus a cop claimer who didn't know is autoscum. Luckily, there's fomatting stuff with it, so your tirade isn't a total loss.

What has PnJ got to do with any of your posts? Why keep mentioning cops, would a gunsmith not get a result?

***WALL FOR TITUS BELOW***

Let's walk you through this shall we? First your claim:

For Pete's sake I'll just claim now that way when I seemingly ignore all the damn questions y'all have it will be because I am reading and then I'll have to catch up on that. You cannot have it both ways, either I can try to contribute, or I go dark for 48 hours. Period.

I am a one shot night stop. I stop all night actions on the night I bold a particular phrase. All investigative roles can verify because they get a result with my flavor name. It starts with a V. My ability is perfect to use at mylo because that then gives the group two lynches. Of course, that requires me to actually have the ability to live and read for two fucking seconds. I'm probably dead now so fuck off. Thanks a lot.

Then you're statement:

"Come. Come kill me if you can."

Try and kill me Alchemist. Just try. Bring your buddies Safety Dance and quadz.

(emphasis and color mine)

Discussion with Benmage:

Spoiler:

It starts with a V.

Voldermort!

Obviously this is not the name. I won't answer serious guesses as we can verify cops in this manner.

Benmage, cop cannot be fakeclaimed effectively. I post a simple question such as, What is the fifth letter of my flavor claim? Any cop should know that after tonight. Quadz will be confirmed tomorrow either way.

My role pm says all abilities are redirected at me. Cops get my flavor role name. It makes no distinction between passive, active or anything else besides one shots are kept.

STFU titus.. why do u keep spilling details of ur claim holyfuck

I don't consider it spilling to clarify my claim to respond to reasonable questions when I thought it was all out there anyway. People should understand my claim that way they can act accordingly. I am pretty confident no one can do anything tonight andwe can verify some people, why not give out that info?

SD, do you have any cop action left?

To which I responded:

T

his is Victarion

not Varys Blackfyre, Benmage, he's already claimed it all.

(My underlining now)

Then your accusations:

VOTE: SafetyDance

I did trigger with that phrase. No good came of outing that though. I never ever claimed my flavor unless Zdenek did.


Also in Lightkun's game it was shorter and I had a scum qt telling me what th fuck was going on.

I thought you were an idiot but now you're trying to interfere with cop testing by suggesting flavor. Lynch him with fire.

Of course, not admitting whether either flavor suggestion is real.

To which I responded:

I'm not suggesting flavor eeeugh, this is an ASOIAF game, do you think people would not know what character said a phrase? Fuck even the ignorant could you know,USE A SMALL INVENTION CALLED GOOGLE. If you've full-claimed then why hide your role-name? IT HAS NO BEARING ON ALIGNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think that by uttering that phrase people haven't already guessed then that is complete folly

and whilst your head is in the ground maybe you could something useful like drill for oil?

(Emphasis mine now)

Which you now respond to with:

SD, I said you could be an idiot thus voiding any one v one status. In that post, I was adopting PnJ's view to show it made no sense.

You obviously didn't read the thread. Cops get my flavorname. Thus a cop claimer who didn't know is autoscum. Luckily, there's fomatting stuff with it, so your tirade isn't a total loss.

So well done, for completely playing totally illogical and unhinged.

[SafetyDance]

Jesus Ooba can you shoot a town-read in the head any more ruthlessly. If you're not going to read my posts, read Tierce's when she briefly decided to play the game today. They make sense and it's not being pushed by me. That you're considering this to be a simple black n white 1v1 is ridiculous. That you're trying to set this up is bad, bad, bad.

I get all your other reasoning but not that part about why Quadz looks so town to you.

Erm? Do you even read, bro?

The only fuck up is Quadz' opinion and whether it's town wrong or scum motivated.

I'm not sure what I can do to change minds, I mean, if you choose me so be it but if I did die I'd rather it be because Quadz is definitely scum and not because he's town and people have reverted back to derping this whole block/track n2/3 thing.

I'd be very disappointed if I'm lynched and he ends up town, but definitely not 95% surprised about it.

I mean seriously, If Quadz had said that he had gone and visited Faraday and got a town result, then THAT would be a true 1v1! How
his claim matching mine makes it a 1v1 BEFORE you even consider this or that we're both telling the truth I don't know. Seriously, I can't follow the logic here:

Quadz is either lying or has been blocked. Why would I not consider both options?

Quadz Must Die

Lynch Dance with me today - I promise we can get Quadz tomorrow.

Quadz can be let off for another day since
- Titus has a way to verify ability (or)

Quadz can verify Titus

- He's claimed cop - who's claimed RB on N3 and that it's remarkably coincidental that SD tracked him that night (and there was what happened today). I actually like Quadz for two reasons after the claim
-- He's not being harping on the "we both can be town" like SD is as much; I would expect scum who's lynch has been aborted to push that line a bit more
-- He could have just claimed cop without putting himself in a weak 1vs1 with Quadz
So let's do it this way.

You're seriously suggesting that it's bad for one of the two people set up to consider the OTHER has a possibility of being town? Rofl.

Also Quadz has barely given any reads in this game let alone since making this "1v1". Unless you consider 3703 thoroughly enlightening.

What Kanye said is true, could have been jk'ed. No one has claimed one though unfortunately.

SD just will never be a reliable narrator due to his actions earlier in my eyes. That plus the fact I find it more likely than you of a scum rber, means I don't see this as a one v one.

Thanks for admitting to confirmation bias.

1) Unreliable narrator, ehich is close to a pl for me unless cleared.
2) Attempting to out my flavor to prevent cop/invest verification
3) General bad posting overal during my readthrough so far when he does post.

1) Wrong
2) Wrong
3) Kettle. Pot. Black.

[SafetyDance]

Benmage to stop popping up to just post sense occasionally instead of active lurking would help too!

Am I missing something important to weigh in on?

Apart from your own reads, top scumspects, general state of play? No, not at all...

tbh it's surprising that scum would RB quadz and not the claimed JOAT.

So you're claiming Role Cop?

Syryana has been a scumread of mine since Day 1, I don't believe there was anything in his Day 1 posts that screamed town, so I am happy to vote there if Titus isn't a thing. Katsuki has done nothing to help StupendousMan slot and even Amished it, so would be happy there too.

Let's go.

Vote: TheAlchemist

[SafetyDance]

2) No. I am not suggesting people are incapable of using Google. Hence why I tried to bury my activation and not call attention to it. However all is not lost as there still is special formatting jnvolved. Your attempt to sabotage my attempts to confirm cops is just all around anti-town.

You have also implied that it is valuable to be stuck in ghe ground (may come up with oil), so I am fine right here.

This guy is going to insist on being a dick. He is saying his own play to lynch me is bad. He also says I am an unreliable narrator and votes me while complaining I am inconsistent from my scum games. Just wow.

Of course, this guy has to vote Alchemist rather than me. He is trying to get cops to out and votes with the guy he is complaining gives no content. Ugh.

You know where you can stick your sabotage. Not everyone is as stupid and ignorant (ignorant, as in head stuck in the ground - it's a common idiom) as you are and trying to treat them as such? Loooooool. You're actually going to pretend people who like ASOIAF in an ASIOAF mafia game are not going to know ASIOAF related info? That's the line you're actually trying to push?

You're not giving any worthwhile content. You replaced in to a predecessor I still thought was scummy despite being a counter wagon to scum, flopped about, gave the worse VCA I have ever seen, complained about having to read the thread, asked stupid questions you could find out in two clicks, acting ignorant and dumb and are surviving today solely based on a claim? Of course I still think you are scum, and no, I was not still pushing for you to be lynched today when everyone had agreed to let you live AFTER YOU STATED YOUR PHRASE. Learn to read and you'd find that out.

But yes, I did give you far too much credit from the last game I saw you in. Sorry for the high expectations on your ability. I shall lower said expectations considerably to a height you should be pleased with.

Seems as if I have all those covered... SO cheah, glad you're sheeping me.

Pedit:

Mod

counting 1, 2, 3,

4

Do you, should be easy to quote them then. 1861 beats 2645 so you're the one sheeping. Who would you be on if not TA? Why?

[SafetyDance]

Spoiler:

*sigh* basic mafia theory, man. You out tracks if they give you pseudo-guilties, not pseudo-innocents, unless another claim contradicts your results or it's fullclaim time.

Curious to see how he responds to Garruk's question.

What's there to say? We don't know what SafetyDance actually meant, and I'm not particularly concerned about him possibly claiming to have roleblocked me. I'll freak out about it when people start voting me for it. *shrug*

Here is says he isn't concerned but if he knows he's been roleblocked, why would he not be wanting to lynch me here, not a day and 70 posts after when a wagon formed?

Well pleased people listened to this, albeit when Kanye brought it up. Lol at the fact I've targeted scum 2 fara theme games in a row and they didn't have the good grace to submit a kill that night.

Lol at Garruk's accusations of bussing. Do you think going after Kanye is easier than Naut?

If you notice your own ISO, your day 4 play consisted of sheeping everyone on me early on, unvoting for no reason,eagerly getting back on when Quadz pressed his 1v1 attempt and extreme defensiveness when someone voted you and you were in no threat of dying. Oh and disappearing before lynch, leaving your vote camped.

vote: Garruk

Can't believe people are having a go at Shadoweh for killing Katsuki. Not only are you applying hindsight and not offering an alternative opinion as to what you would have done, She said she would do it, where was the disagreement then? Shad, did you know it would go over the global roleblock? Can anyone confirm (by receiving the Titus investigation message or lack of action going through) that what Titus claimed actually happened? Have to wait for her to appear now.

Not sure about the last Will stuff, looks like different days, so could one of them most likely be from SM?

FYI, No idea when I'll next be lucid, thus the v/la for the week

[SafetyDance]

Kanye I read your ISO over the night phase & I think you're scum.

???

i have no idea how you could reach this conclusion.

You mean besides me bleeding fucking town since page one? No, I don't have an idea.

perhaps if you were reading the thread you would have seen that a) I'm town and b) I talked about why I suspect you yesterday

Spoiler:

[SafetyDance]

@Mod, you can remove the V/LA, thanks!

, should be able to post more tomorrow onwards.

Bookmarks -> click on last post -> quick reply. I've done that before when having to prod dodge, it is possible but not reading game/flips is asking for trouble.

[SafetyDance]

I'm struggling to come to grips that Titus can spend the time making ten pages of notes but can't read the first page of day 5 to see what happened

Just like there's a dissonance between the calm 'not going to be lynched' Garruck and the one that gets hyper-defensive after a few votes. If you're not going to get lynched the actually come out and say why. None of this bs softclaiming shit that today is rife with. Can we just make everyone do a

full

claim so this role madness is out in the open?

If we're not getting rid of Garruk today, can we tie up TA Syr, I mean there's still no reason he's actually town right?

Katsuki/SM likely had an odd/even night will modifier. Seems fairly straightforward

[SafetyDance]

- I think D3 established that SpyreX cannot be scumbuddies with Titus (Zed)
- AGar's reasoning on Titus seems to stem from a town mindset - I cant see scum going 1:1 so soon after Quadz tried it on D4
- Garruk's push on kanye and the three ability theory look like a paranoid townie mindset - not that difficult to fake though but leaning town

Which leaves TheAlch, elle and PnJ and all three of them have votes on town. I'd really like to vote TheAlchemist the most because
- there have been times, the other two, when I've felt town vibes from their post.
- PnJ's pushes and play seem more random than scum motivated; Also the quadz interaction - if it was bussing, was an awkward bus

Vote: TheAlchemist

Isn't the whole point to be looking for in a bus, "awkward bussing"? If it was a perfect bus it would be like what Naut did.

Garruk's theory was completely fake and rightly shot down, and push on Kanye was ridiculous. so no, not from a town mindset. Looks more like someone coming out of the blocks with a lynch target.

Actually ooba, you spoke of coincidences before, irt the last two scum we've had flip, what do you think of Shadoweh softclaiming having a shadow?



So we have two less roleblockers now, since Elle's an actual vanillizer. Two one-shots and one x-shot. One global rber, one active ability rber and one f..knows rber. Up against a possible doc and a possible flavor cop. With a shitload of extras on both side

[SafetyDance]

Going back over some posts...

You mean besides me bleeding fucking town since page one? No, I don't have an idea.

Katsuki was a bad VIG kill. I wish I was around to try to talk some sense into that,

not that it would have mattered I'm like invisible thins game.

Just checking in. Get back to this tomorrow or next day, busy.

These two things are not unrelated. But it does seem to be the mindset of the day (apathy). Which is interesting considering the last two flips.

VOTE: Titus.

I kinda feel like, given how much softclaiming is going on this game,

if someone really thought they had a reason for the N3 kill to not show up they might have said so by now

. Based just on inthread posting I think P&J and Garruk are still scummier, but this is fine.

I don't get how you can come to this conclusion at this time of posting. Agar had already posted about this before Day4 ended and when he came in today.

@SD, the notes were written prior to my work explosion. The ten pages cover until about page 30 or so.

Full claims benefit scums. I felt compelled to claim but yet

scum found a way around what I did.

If I could have claimed near lylo, scums would have had an impossible time.

So you're calling Shadoweh scum now? Do you even bother to read the thread? Fuck this notes business, just give us proof you're actually reading.

And full claiming helps because it gives us information, not misinformation, less headaches dealing with softclaiming, people are tied to a story NOW, not one they can shape later on at lylo and it then lets us get away with it all, like worry about not lynch this pr or that one, and focus on actual scum hunting.

Pedit - rofl, that's a rather relevant ninja

[SafetyDance]

But you were already into the days play and responding to people. Selective reading?

It doesn't make sense if his ability is linked, only if it can get through (or before) yours.

If you bothered to look at a VC once in a while you'd see there's a lot more than just I saying your scum and if you bothered to read the thread you'd see there was more than just Naut confirming your ability worked.

[SafetyDance]

Yeah, I had been away for 5+ days due to an emergency So I hadn't read at some points. I didn't know how that happened but I figured I didn't have the time to catch up.

If his ability only works when I triggered mine, they are linked.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff here. I'm not denying that. Yet, you too are selectively reading and deflecting. The game doesn't center on me.

Who's said that? The basis of that is where...?

How can I be selectively reading when you've just admitted to not paying attention to anything but bits n pieces? What am I trying to deflect from? No shit the game doesn't center around you, but

you're

SELECTIVELY responding to just the parts that talk about you. Good job.

If you ask me it is!

Yes, re-direct the town to Quadz when only Kanye was pushing it and there was a counter-wagon growing on TA?

I meant if someone other than AGar had a contradicting explanation... hence why I voted Titus...

But you never mentioned Agar or anyone else, you didn't say "if someone

else

really...." you made no mention, nothing in previous posts either. Why omit something so important like that?

What?

No, really, what?

None of that points to apathy and I'll have to ask you why you're selectively reading shit.

The first one refers to Shadoweh abandoning me on Spyrex and not listening to me that I thought he was scum (and noone else but empire actually paying attention to my read on him), as well as a few other things I've said that have just been dismissed. It has nothing to do with apathy.

The second bolded also has nothing to do with apathy, it has to do with busy. I did not have free time to play mafia because I was busy working quite a few more than normal hours.

Firstly, why are you responding with Titus' words?

Secondly, you made no mention of Shadoweh, you said you felt invisible this

game

. That's a generalised comment on a gamestate, not about one individual. If you're feeling invisible and then state you are busy (whatever the reason) then don't you think that's your answer right there?

And yes there is apathy. Day starts and a whole load of poeple go v/la, cephrir complains about his vote not meaning much, you come out with your I'm invisible claim, that's apathy to me.

It

is

interesting because activity slowed, and activity

has

played a big part in this game since I was nearly lynched for it day 1 and Amrun

was

lynched for it.

[SafetyDance]

Regarding Garruk: I've been there with these crazy theories. I agree it's bad but I just don't see it coming from scum.

That's dismissing it for no good reason, a shit theory - oh must be town! Get scum lynched - must be a bus! There is no town logic or thought process to their play today. People are giving them a free ride, just like Alkie.

Regarding Shadow: By "Shadoweh softclaiming having a shadow" - do you mean the man she soft claimed she need to complete her kill? I view that as neutral. Not sure what you're referring to when you connect it to the last two scum flips?

You mentioned coincidences in regards to the last two scum:

Also I just thought of something while writing this -

SpyreX's playstyle includes "hammer time" and he gets a role that needs a hammer to power up? Coincidence much?

"It's not like SD is a reliable narrator or that scum would say yeah I rbed quadz." -> SD has clarified his actions. Scum RBing Quadz the same night is too coincidental and unlikely.

- He's claimed cop - who's claimed RB on N3 and that it's remarkably coincidental that SD tracked him that night (and there was what happened today). I actually like Quadz for two reasons after the claim

5% chance of both of you being town

- I'm just not feeling this - feels like this would require too many coincidences -

So who is this soft-claiming to be?

If you die overnight it won't be because of Tierce.
It'll be because the night is dark and full of terrors.

[SafetyDance]

why? things are going pretty dang well for town?

That's how I viewed it. Despite the "wellness", day started out like a grind.

SafetyDance- He was basically sheeping MC, if i recall correctly.

Learn2ReadTheThread™.

Like preferably all of it. Would have assumed you were reading it since the start...

why are you terrified of 3 votes?

Same M.O as yesterday. Got really nervy pre-quadz being run up, then came out today pretending to be chill. Now back to ultra-defensiveness. I did mention this.

Also, the entire game state just doesn't feel like one big scum team anymore - far too many town reads and unless all rest Chaos scum are in {elle, TheAlch, PnJ, AGar, GR} (and even that seems unlikely given voting patterns) - I just can't see it. Let me take a look at VCs again.

I agree with this sentiment, but with the lack of kills I don't see it being multiball.

I suppose there could be some third party types though?

Just a 6-player Chaos team seems just as unlikely as GRRM finishing Winds by Xmas '14. There's bound to be 3rd party. Last time it was just a Lyncher.

I said I voted due to MC yesterday but also took a look at GR's scum games before voting:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30705
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31354
- Early play seems to involve never mentioning\interacting with scum buddies much
- Many throwaway statements about scum buddies like 'X is neutral', 'X is also probably scum'
- Never starts a wagon on scum buddy - but joins the wagon if needed; but still has the tendency to avoid lynching if necessary
ISO'd them this game - interaction with Quadz and the voting-unvoting-voting seem to fit this profile

@Alfred:

Have you taken a look at their meta?

We have no evidence, whatsoever that there's 2 scum teams except that people keep bringing it up.

VOTE: The Alchemist

I'm not giving up a scum read, just because of what someone else is being cryptic about. We have had this conversation before anyway. If GR isn't being lynched can we get Sryrana who's posting today has done even less than before if that is even possible. I really don't want to try and deal with the clusterfuck that is sorting out who's scummier out of Agar/PnJ/Elle/Titus/Goat

[SafetyDance]

Dan if Benmage is sitting back, what's TA doing?

[SafetyDance]

VOTE: PrideandJoy

I respond to more than what is said about me.

SD, you should be trying to figure out the game. Voting TA to avoid doing that is bad.

That should be L minus 1.

You may not have noticed whilst pretending to take notes but I've had a scum read on him for a while, keep up. If I had a vig shot I'd definitely flip a coin between you two.

@SD
Ah - but both coincidences I pointed out were role based actions that they claimed.
Shadoweh needing another person doesn't require any coincidence.

No, not what I was getting at. Read initial post again.

Dan if Benmage is sitting back, what's TA doing?

I've only been saying this for weeks now.... ZzzZzzzzzzz

So why should we keep ignoring him and letting him coast to D6?

Thanks for the defense, Tierce. We're fullclaiming though, because, well, it's about time.

We're a 2-shot motivator/fruit vendor. The first shot was used on Tierce night one. It was a...leap of faith, if you will. We wanted to use it early because we were almost quickwagoned day one and wanted to get some use out of our role if we were gonna be lynched day two. We didn't like SafetyDance even after the claim, which is why we didn't motivate him(he was the only claim at the time). As of the current time, the second shot is still in our possession. We think it is a good time to use it. I have a few good ideas on where to go with it, but if anyone thinks they can use a second shot well, I'm all ears.

What did Tierce receive?

[SafetyDance]

You realize I was agreeing with you, right

Looking back I can see why you read it this way, but when paired with my vote on Titus and the fact that I'd already made reference to the RB several times (and so was clearly aware of it) the correct interpretation of my post is the only one left.

Thought you were responding to the second sentence.

When paired with your vote, it looks out of place, which is why I mentioned it. Which posts of yours today before the one in question referenced agar's rb?

Alchemist called that "moonlogic" - which is similar to SpyreX stressing my D2 "SpyreX-Messiah" case and then calling me a toolbox.

Moonlogic is a pretty tame term for it, considering my usual style and the fact you've been using associative tells (and I use the term very loosely) without flips.

Yep, this post sure does scream town. Just like Agar's.

[SafetyDance]

*snore*

You know what I've decided? All these nights of no kills actually aren't helping.

Apathy..............................

Vote: TheAlchemist

Good enough for me. Today is TA, Agar or Titus, if GA is unlynchable.

Vote:TheAlchemist

Vote: Nautilius

Vote me.

Vote: Nautilius

[SafetyDance]

Because I wasn't around before the hammer:

Ok I don't see town SD

So... you don't see the guy who

blocked

quadz-scum and who quadz tailored a claim around as Town?

Okay then.

***********tracked

Let's not repeat this again.


Also Chess will Dan be posting at all or will you being all 20 posts to spite the playerlist?

[SafetyDance]

*snore*

You know what I've decided? All these nights of no kills actually aren't helping.

Apathy..............................

You should stop using words when you don't know what they mean.

Right because someone emoting that their snoring shows that they are eager and ready and active and area a budnle of joy over the gamestate etc?

Is it opposite-day in your world?

[SafetyDance]

I was hoping for some sort of vig/veng shot.

I don't like this.

[SafetyDance]

Can both fullclaim now?

[SafetyDance]

Lol, so apathetic boredom then?

[SafetyDance]

Shit quicklynch is shit. There was a need for that?

Anyway, lol at Agar dead. That's one less scum read in the game. Also there's a town bloc and a non-town bloc person dies. Interesting.

The Alchemist

Back to this.

[SafetyDance]

btw can we put 2 rest the multiple scum team nonsense now that this was confirmed 18:6 at the start of the game? 4 scum lef t...

4

non-town

aligned players left. They don't all have to be aligned with Chaos (scum). Plenty of 3rd party suspects around.

[SafetyDance]

Titus in going with the flavor of the month shocker.

I like MC's case but it's more flawless irt why Agar was killed than why AB is scum. That said, I had an early scum read on the slot before it was fashionable, but did choose to focus on Other Targets more recently. Going back to re-read and see if reasons still apply.

That was the worst attempt at a vote before, kinda missed an important part to it, sorry.

Vote: TheAlchemist

[SafetyDance]

Day 1 and Syry was in spam party mode early on and then went with the crowd later in the day.

Was. not. Town.

[SafetyDance]

Alfred Borden (Empire/Llamarble) - Lean Town, his latest posts have greatly improved.

[SafetyDance]

TA lynch -> Titus lynch -> Elle lynch -> Re-Assess after flips. That is how I would like this game to go.

Throw Alfie in there if you want as long as it gets those lynched.

[SafetyDance]

I don't really care that you're trying to disassociate yourself from TA, you've done enough to earn rope yourself.

You're talking about being logical which is ironical, since one of #4308 or #4687 must be wrong, therefore you're lying in one of your posts. Keep up the good work!

[SafetyDance]

Where is the emotion in saying there are inconsistencies?

[SafetyDance]

Alfred Borden (Empire/Llamarble) - Lean Town, his latest posts have greatly improved.

As for your comment SafetyDance, fuck you. I have been the earliest pusher of AB although I didn't have a case like Desperado's.

Cephrir picked it up, I believe he even talked to you about it. Goldfish memory ftl

[SafetyDance]

You're using ATE wrong. Go look it up.

You're a walking contradiction, I just proved it, twice.

Going back to search #4687 for the word "today". I may be gone a long time...

[SafetyDance]

Godwin has been reached, 192 posts in.

[SafetyDance]

Erm, pages*

[SafetyDance]

Spoiler:

Dahling, if I was trying to assign scum motivation to you, I'd be voting you. If you don't have a decent

reason

that explains why elle would do what she did as scum, you can very well keep your superficial opinion in your pants. You spoke up, I'm daring you to either challenge my views on the matter with actual arguments, or go back to your corner and your "she should eventually die" thoughts.

Yes, that's something I would have to do if I was asserting that elle is scum. Good thing I never did that!

First of all, the "Keep up the good work!" is at best filler language or is an AtE. Now answer the question, what was inconsistent about the two posts?

Context in those two. I was an early pusher TODAY. Jeezus.

That's a completely different meaning given that people were, IIRC, starting to push him yesterday- trying to take credit where it's not due? Probably not but like come on, you have no right to get upset about this.

That is still being taken out of context. I was an early pusher today. Obviously not in long term as I wasn't an early pusher of anything given I wasn't here early.

Out of context? That's just not true. People are taking *exactly what you said*, you just don't like it because they aren't including your after-the-fact errata.

<3 Ceph. Exactly. It means my original statement is still true. You can only respond to what people post. Not to mention trying to label sarcasm as ATE is lols all round.

Happy to noose this today if the wagon forms. Not sure I'm following why TA and Titus can't be same alignment but that would it make it easier if one flips town. AB as possible scum buddy for Titus.

Whose in here defending TA??? Noone.... has TA attempted to even defend herself? Nope... TA is a site troll and Faraday is a dumbass.

Whose defending AB???? TAMMY IS. One of the most universal strongest town reads in the game. WHOSE GOING TO FUCKING ARGUE WITH HER. None of these PUSSYs.. Why aren't more people hammering at AB?? Because his scum partners see no reason to bus. IS anyone rescuing TA?? OR COACHING him in the scumqt to wake the fuck up?? OR IS SHE STILL TROLLING THE SHIT OUT OF US. You all want to policy lynch onDay fucking 7 when you have one of the juicyiest more difficult scums to lynch dangling right in front of you. REACH out and grab it. For fucks sake... mindlessfucking-fucks.

Ya I wanted TA for like 4 days. But not today. Not when we can lynch a scumslot like AB.

Sing it, sister!

I want TA gone. There was the Quadz lynch d4, the 1v1 yesterday, lynch AB today and still he survives...and then what happens tomorrow, Scum Doe is suddenly obv scum all today's AB, so he gets pushed back again. I won't be forgetting AB, I don't think your or Messiah will and if it's only Tammy defending, well she's invisible so it's not like there is a major force against the lynch, so we'd be in the same position tomorrow only (assuming) with more posts from the slot to glean information on.

[SafetyDance]

Llama's list is missing Goat and Elleh. What is a town dragon?

[SafetyDance]

Tomorrow never comes

[SafetyDance]

Well you're voting. That's a positive at least.

As for the dragon thing, he's being vague about it though, does he mean it in the literal sense or is it an anthropomorphism.

[SafetyDance]

We've only had even-night kills.

Should we run up Titus today then or tomorrow?

[SafetyDance]

I swear, SD and TA sound like alts of each other. [/b]

Lmao.

Thor665 who was

"The Hound", Sandor Clegane

and aligned with

The Realm

was put down Day 1
Amrun who was

Sansa Stark

and aligned with

The Realm

overdosed on lemon cakes Day 2

macmollie who was

Arya Stark

and aligned with

The Realm

was stabbed with the pointy end Night 2

SpyreX who was

Samwell Tarly

and aligned with

Chaos

was scared to death Day 3
quadz08 who was

"The Damphair", Aeron Greyjoy

and aligned with

Chaos

got rekt by the Drowned God Day 4

Katsuki who was

Barristan Selmy

and aligned with

The Realm

got choked by his white cloak Night 4

PrideandJoy who were

Syrio Forel

and aligned with

The Realm

exploded from awesomeness Day 5
Goat on a Raft who were

Tywin Lannister

and aligned with

The Realm

got crushed by their legacy Day 6

AGar who was

Grey Wind

and aligned with

The Realm

turned his back on the Wolfpac Night 6

!

Unlike you, some of us are paying attention to the game. Tbf implicates Shadoweh too but it doesn't help your slot that your global rb falls on an odd-night.

You're comparison is amusing, a pre-schooler trying to be clever sort of amusing.

We've received our prod. I love the walls of town reads, its been a while since my last good circle jerk. Still lynching TA. Still waiting for everyone to emerge from their turkey comas to come out and play.

This

[SafetyDance]

You're comparison is amusing, a pre-schooler trying to be clever sort of amusing.

Fantastic job! Trying to insult someone without even bothering with spelling! Gosh, you are so original and cute and showing how much of a "pre-schooler"

you

are not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/schooler

[SafetyDance]

If you're complaining about the hyphen that's grammar, not spelling.

I'm sure you didn't realise that in the red mist of rushing to defend your scumbuddy.

[SafetyDance]

Will catchup here tomorrow.

[SafetyDance]

Because yesterday worked so well with running up a quick lynch and taunting kanye?

We should all be full-claiming at this stage, there's no reason not too, the game is getting ran away with. If Garruk is town (my read has been no all game) then that's TWO players with fake results and yet still TA lives for another day and ooba's added himself to the lynch list.

Rather than waste the shot at TA, I thought somebody else on the Quadz early wagon would be good. It was a toss up between kanye and Cephrir

and I went with Cephrir

because I noticed kanye pushing him only after it was decided Quadz was a D4 or D5 lynch.

Claim: 1-shot investigate on kanye. Result: Guilty

This doesn't even make sense.

13 left - so that's two more mislynches assuming there's just a 4-man scum team left.

[SafetyDance]

Didn't realise I wasn't in this game! My mistake Tierce. Please, show me the error of my ways. You might want to tell the mod too whilst you're at it.

[SafetyDance]

@Mod - was I supposed to get a pm when prodded?

[SafetyDance]

I am happy to vote Garruk.

Will not mind being proved right with that read.

Certainly trust sheeping Benmage atm other certain others.

Hi Magau, echo the sentiment for you to reveal your info.

[SafetyDance]

EBWOP: -other +over

[SafetyDance]

Why is ooba not being considered scum for the fakeclaim?

That's

twice

there's been

actual

1v1s that have resulted in town flips and there's barely any questions irt these players. Well least not from those alive....

[SafetyDance]

Hi Magau, echo the sentiment for you to reveal your info.

I liked that Magua posted inthread quickly after replacing. (I'd have read my scumqt)

I don't like that he resisted my request/is now a little mia... the paranoia alarms start going off.

Presume it's because he's busy isoing her now.

Your command is my wish.

Vote: Garruk

[SafetyDance]

Hey SD when I flip town, you promise to lynch Benmage, right?

I'd consider him as scum the same as ooba

[SafetyDance]

You're going to have a bad time.

SafetyDance, if ooba is scum, how come you seem so nonchalant about voting along with him?

What has ooba got to do with Benmage's track claim?

Why was Elle so solid town, Ben?

[SafetyDance]

How do you know it was fake? In the same way you knew Ooba to be telling the truth?

[SafetyDance]

Are you just a tracker Ceph?

Yeah, ooba claimed in the middle of the day, where his pre-postings made no sense if he had an investigation result. :hindsight:

[SafetyDance]

Oh yeah, like Titus still not sure why if GR is double hated he's still alive?

[SafetyDance]

Is Ooba really talking about fake guilties having scum motivation, really? I have a present for you:


Lynch All Liars, may as well start with first and worst.

Vote: Ooba

Ben, when you're done taunting the dead, care to explain?

[SafetyDance]

Unlike some, not afraid to get everything out there (I did try to persist we should earlier).

I've also got a one-shot doc and I have no idea on who to use it on tonight to prevent mylo/lylo..

Tammy then Tierce dying is no coincidence, MC and Shadow have been rather skating and for such a strong, common, early town read Cephrir is still around. Then there's the whole Nacho/Borden thing, there's gotta be scum there and of course in the liars and lurkers. Think since I'm still here, may as well completely reset reads and do a massive re-read too.

[SafetyDance]

This game pisses me off so horribly based on how beautifully it started that I am probably willing to burn a policy lynch today. On Syryana. And Jesus fuck I never thought I would say that.

You pushed the boulder that started the avalanche.

Have not forgotten who created that 1v1 against town....and is still here.

[SafetyDance]

I see no compelling reason not to mass claim today.

I plan on ISOing everyone, because this really is going to shit. I'm lost and confused and I don't understand

how the last few lynches have all been town.

Benmage, I hate you. FYI.

I can help there:

Day 5 - PnJ speedlynched before all the playerlist comes in (town)
Day 6 - Nacho creates the 1v1 with Goat to get him lynched (town)
Day 7 - Ooba fakes guilty on Kanye to get him lynched (town)
Day 8 - Benmage fakes guilty on GR to get him lynched (town)

Also there was a point yesterday where the GR wagon stalled and people were calling him town, has to be more to do with knowledge than reads you would think.

Massclaim is dumb. Near as I gather, all town claims so far have been met with, "Lol stupid fakeclaim die scum oh shit they were town," then repeat, helped by ooba and Benmage. Given the no role flip, limited shot setup, I have zero conviction that we'd be trapping any scum in a lie and so it'd just let them know more of the setup with no gain for us.

[1] Loosely interpreted.

There's a few more out there but really the advantages of massclaiming now is that it can be the last chance to do so before we get to an end game situation. It is better having the information out there now then just releasing it when it is most beneficial for scum to bullshit. Tie people down to role claims, try and figure it out and leave the only manipulation by scum to the night, as opposed to any mylo/lylo scenario. The more hoops we can try and get scum to jump through, the less we have to jump through ourselves.

I am sick of these half-arsed claims, I was sick of having mine out there for so long (didn't think I'd live past D1) but feel no remorse over it considering what's happened this game and the aversion people have had.

People like Messiah have been skimming since the start, others have been backing others actions for *reasons* (eg GR & Tierce; Ceph,Nacho & Titus). Shadoweh is even trolling now. ("Ice skating. I'm sure someone will be an obvious target by the end of the day. ").

Heck considering she's effectively Vig claimed, she's the leading candidate for a modified SK. Actually surprised Omar isn't in this game considering the runups that have occurred.

Ooba, you need to drop the hell out of your two scumteam theory until evidence of it arises.

You want evidence of the two scumteams - you lynch Benmage. Not my fault both teams can't crosskill properly.

Night 2 - macmollie killed
Night 4 - blocked by Titus
Night 6 - AGar killed
Night 8 - Tierce killed

Night 1 - BP eaten up by Tierce
Night 3 - ???
Night 5 - ??? (blocked by Agar?)
Night 7 - Tammy killed

After solid days of plays, Reads!Ooba kinda turned into Theories!Ooba, didn't he?

Glad you're admitting to having no evidence for this theory.

[SafetyDance]

The probability of the unlikelihood of all 4 remaining anti-town to be in the scum team does not directly lead into the most likely situation being 2 scum teams, especially with nothing to back it up. Nor does "after flip" back up a theory. You don't send someone to jail because once they get there they'll prove they are guilty.

I think you stopped your reads after Quadz died. That can't be a coincidence. /checking

Ninja'd - and you don't think the guy that has openly bullshitted town should be claiming either?

[SafetyDance]

Benmage, I agree with most of your non-italicised points. The You're-Town circle jerk that was happening did not benefit town in the slightest. Certainly the non-votes and no scum reads doesn't help, which is probably why they were first to go in this "town-bloc"

I'm still confused as to why that's a reason for you to try and commit mafia-seppuku if town (which, like ooba, we don't know you are). What are the rest of us meant to try and do for motivation when you supposedly threw the game out the window because you've given up trying to be in that "20%" of results?

Look at it from ourt POV: If you two are town, you've just handed the game to scum on the last two days. I mean sure, there's several other things that helped contribute but you both enabled scum to just sit this one out and ride the waves of town

chaos

.

Full claim now.

Please

.

[SafetyDance]

The townies withholding their own information think they're better than they are, that everyone reads them as town, and that their secret information is so vital they alone must maintain the details.... Which allows what? Scum to also claim half assed secret role information. Like Tammy/Syranna marriage--Garruk/Shadoweh neighbor+strongarmvig(WTF)--Cephrir/kkb one way note...Why did you put a Miller in this game? Put a Jester in next time.

People like Messiah have been skimming since the start, others have been backing others actions for *reasons* (eg GR & Tierce; Ceph,Nacho & Titus). Shadoweh is even trolling now. ("Ice skating. I'm sure someone will be an obvious target by the end of the day. ").

And this is jinx/snap?

[SafetyDance]

Ooba, your fake claim laid the groundwork for Benmage's.By fake claiming on a real cop, who outed the flavor before I could save him, that lead to GR's death as I had no method of testing Benmage's claim. While I can believe your play is derpy, I cannot on Benmage and I will explain that in a moment.

Kanye, can you please translate this?

Oh wait...

[SafetyDance]

Regarding stopping my reads after Quadz died:
- I opposed the PnJ lynch
- I thought the Goat 1vs1 was the worst thing. I called it Town vs Town

Sure on two I have
- SpyreX's final statements "You know who you are"
- Quadz going a 1:1 on you when he claiming cop would have allowed him to live longer and not hasten his demise
- And a series of attacks on various people that seemed to stem from inside knowledge and not well thought out reads.
But all that is not "hard" evidence.

But Benmage = scum does not need two scum teams - it works well with 6/0 too.

Motivations:

- I lied to get a lynch when I had led two lynches on scum, had generally been good with other town reads (see above) - there's no reason as scum to stick my head out to get kanye lynched - If scum, I would just lie low and win at LyLo with my superlative play\bussing on SpyreX & Quadz
- Benmage on the other hand - gets a clear mislynch - because he can always hide behind his stupid meta and he\his scum partners can claim "let's go after ooba first"

So after all this lengthy discussion on how it was possible that kanye could be bussing quadz and it was totally possible, you are trying to ride the coat-tails of getting two scum lynched? That is bigger grandiose and hubris than anything TT could concoct together if you think that helping to lynch scum gets you a free pass to fakeclaim. Come on...

You made a pre-lynch case for Quadz that you yourself ignored. Kanye and Nacho drove the lynch, repeating and casing a point I brought up (which fair enough, hardly an objective participant in it). It was NOT a 1v1 as you still keep trying to claim it was, there were holes in Quadz, which was pointed out, which he did try to back down from, which he was then proceeded to be lynched for.

As for riding on your "superlative" play? That's exactly what you've been doing since D5.

You want motivation? Self-presevation. Today straight away you attack Benmage, the other faker, because you know the focus will be on you two.

Benmage has been inferring himself that I am scum (by PoE it seems), so if you are inferring that I'm one of his partners who's come out accusing you at least grow balls and say it.

[SafetyDance]

SD, question please?

One of ooba Cephir AB and Naut is almost certainly scum given the end of the Kanye wagon. Benmage shows his scum colors by demotivation.

Cmon we're still in this.

Yes?

I have noted that we're still in this and that Patchface has lost her Grayscale Gargoyle protector (saving the world one hyphen at a time).

I think my posts today show how nice that bit of freedom to say what I really think is.

Ninja'd - He was targeting you.

[SafetyDance]

I forgot to mention this with the doc-shot reveal but my block shot could only affect a player's active ability. Faraday had said it doesn't stop factional kills when I asked him, I was just trying to wifom it because it was weak.

(I'd rather this info out now than endgame)

[SafetyDance]

Nacho, I'm still trying to scale all those fucking walls but at least you're semi-scum hunting as opposed to town-wanking as days before.

The big question for now is, how can you have Ooba AND Benmage in your townpile considering their play and how does that attest to Syry?

[SafetyDance]

Ninja'd - most sense today award goes to Ceph

[SafetyDance]

It's not you claiming town

[SafetyDance]

Sorry, something's come up. V/LA next 36 hours. Shouldn't be long than that, hopefully.

[SafetyDance]

Sorry, prod dodge for now.

[SafetyDance]

Ugh, there's things I want to respond to from way back when ooba gave his theory. I'm short on time though. Ironically may have more time on Chrissy day itself since most the family is off on their own holidays. Thank god for the extension at least.

I'm finding Nacho very town, but I can't really stomach the AB!Town thing, especially how it would appear like that from his perspective when others are falling. Or that the two false-claimers can be town as well. The problem with all this metarrhea is that most have may not have played with Empire or have to time to trawl through millions of posts. Not to mention, we're playing this game. First and foremost play this game needs to be assessed.

Don't get why it's finally on Day 9 and with an imminent lynch that TA decides he's in this game. How can we process that?

SPOILER THE FUCKING THING WHEN QUOTING A WALL! Holy fucking scroll of doom.

I agree with Magua. In just 2 hours a flash wagon forms on Alfred to L-1? That's pretty much confirming scum in that pool of 4.

Shooting off a list for sake of brevity today:

Nacho - Town
Ceph - Town
Magua - Town

That PoE's it to the others.

Benmage/Ooba/Syry/Titus

Messiah/Shadow/Alfred

That's how I'd group them, not sure which group would mean one is more scummy than the other but 4/7 means we're going to end up really unlucky if we can't lynch some sort of scum out of this group.

I'd prefer to lynch TA still. We really do need him gone. I honestly can't work out which of the others he's with has been scum or just anti-town atm. Ooba's VCA just highlights need to down own analysis but fucking time. I didn't necessarily trust Benmage pre-d9 but he made a fuckton of sense so the whole towel-throwing thing he started yesterday was annoying. Titus is the same as TA really, I was hoping to re-assess after his flip but that hasn't really happened.

The other three have very much flown under the radar. MC's postings look genuine but that's what I felt early in the game and I felt the same with Spy which didn't work out well and I really can't tell the head's apart except when Des signs, not likely on a team with Nacho at least. I'd probably be happy with Shadoweh because of that Alfred quick-wagon was bad which leaves her from that group.

I don't even want to get into the doubts I have over the town reads. Ugh.

Really hoping to be able to knock things on a head and reply and case things before someone is hammered so please hold off the need for that as long as possible.

[SafetyDance]

^But 5500 posts is enough to throw in the towel and spend the rest complaining?

Jesus there is too much shit to read through. Bonus that I don't have to respond to MC or Ooba I guess. The latter who I obviously didn't try to save last night, fyi.

[SafetyDance]

Although just to put it out there, Ooba's reads and theories were crap (not to mention his fakeclaim) because he was still trying to suggest that D5 one of myself or Quadz had to die, which wasn't the case (which was pointed out) , then he later suggested that I was scum somehow bussing him, but the only scumlist he put me in was an opposite team????

Anyway glad we can put the two teams thing to the seabed now. 4.5:1 is far more plausible at this stage.

[SafetyDance]

You did. If not those exact words the same meaning from when you went on your 'Faraday pm' diatribe. You also said yesterday town can't win. So just what the fuck are you doing?

Apart from noise, noise, noise, noise, noise of course...

I mean, I've agreed with A LOT of what you've said but I still don't understand how if town you'd willingly lose one mislynch because you've given up the ghost, or why you'd then still be so vehement on playing (or lynching "right") for someone who's given up...regardless of your thoughts on the mod's balancing ability (which is funny considering you profited the most last game).

[SafetyDance]

If you look at The Wire, also by Faraday, you'll see the traitor there *also* knew the members of the scumteam.

So, I'm pretty damn sure that Messiah knew who the scum here were. They didn't know him, but him jumping onto that Alfred wagon and yelling for thunder is a pretty fair indication to me that Alfred is not, as much as I want him to be, scum.

This was what I was thinking off too, which makes looking for bussing redundant because scum wouldn't have known who the traitor was, though something Magua didn't mention was that in The Wire they KNEW there was scum. In fact most of MC's D9 plain is pretty much consigned to WIFOM. Much rather focus on Ooba.

I'm definitely going with the 4+1:1 theory, which is effectively the same as TW, expect the lyncher being a different sort of TP this game. No doubt :shenanigans: though, this is Faraday (as Ben likes to mention every now and again).

[SafetyDance]

See, if Ooba died because his threat as obv-town because of MC-push outweighed his fakeclaim, then that would mean AB is basically cleared because of MC's vote on him...so why would a fakeclaimer be killed over someone who's meant to be cleared such as AB? Except to increase the wifom???

If he's town and not scum then what does that mean for Nacho? Or the tunnelling mage?

Hell there's a claimed investigative role with x-shots STILL in this game ahead of the likes of Ooba or Tammy/Tierce.

Fuck this is a headache.

I've got last 3-4 pages to respond to. 'Tomorrow/When I get on' pile.

[SafetyDance]

MC took the dive because that's what his role stipulates him to do, because wifoming and keeping the real scum alive is his reason for existing. Not because the scum team chose him to fall on his sword.

And if there is only 2 left in the scum-team left (ie 1 third party in game) then it makes sense because of self-preservation that there would be no sacrificing.

Of course the MC wifom applies to AB, but it also applies to Magua too. Which is why I'm putting less stock in what MC was saying D9 because they knew they were gone and in hindsight their posting reflects that.

[SafetyDance]

We're Jaime Lannister, X-Shot Self-Watching Roleblocker. X times at night we can choose to watch ourselves; if we're visited, we have the option of roleblocking them the next night.

N1 we saw SafetyDance visit us and were also informed that we received the fruit

and chose not to roleblock

N5 no one visited us

So I could block/track possible scum? Right...

I have no idea if my Nacho block went through or not now. :/

Also surely

rabbit

would have been sent after N1 ended :S

I'm not avoiding Alfred. I just need to look at them again. If MC is scum I'm not going to be too worried about it, honestly. This day has made it clear they're not scumbuddies IMO.

Unfortunately, still a possibility. Though everything we're being made to believe now is pointing to AB-town.

Ooba, if that is you, please move your vote by the next vote count.

In what reality would a beyond-the-grave Ooba be voting for AB?

I neighborized Nacho and it worked. Ellibereth posted in the QT! Something interesting was revealed.

If I promised to neighborize you Shadoweh I totally forgot and am sorry.
Was my neighborize power really in any doubt anyway? How else would I have known the name Tierce submitted?
If it becomes necessary I can do a rundown of the posts in there, but it would be pretty boring for me.

Oh god I swear I am getting deja-vu here about scum neighbourizing themselves. Now what was that game?

I thought Elli was gone, so he has been active recently? Why turn up just for a QT?

My thought was that the mod vote is probably either ooba or MC. I imagine they can't change it, either way.

Here's my issue right now, before reviewing MC.

SD was insanely town around his claim and has the quadz thing in his favor.
Naut is trying really fucking hard and has been hyper town all damn game.
Alfred was the counterwagon to scum yesterday. And a counterwagon MC could not have pushed any harder; it nearly worked.
Benmage made a play that would just be retarded from scum. He could be scum, but he is definitely not my first pick.
I think Titus is town just on play and by comparison to my other game with her.

That leaves me Shadoweh, Alchemist, and Magua. If there aren't at least 2 scum in there I'll eat my detective hat. That's how I feel pre MC iso anyway, we'll see what happens.

God would this game be insanely easier if you and Nacho are both town. Your list is very close to mine which :paranoia: is scary, which is also there for Nacho if AB is town, heck if AB is scum then Nacho being the last of the fab four alive just reeks of scumbuddy protecting his weaker partner, which he's spent many a wall trying to do - which makes sense if there's only two of them left. Especially if after Quadz dying they had to bunker down (on the assumption there's only two left).

I think massclaiming, especially in this setup, doesn't help town and only helps scum, and that tends to be the case in all Faraday setups.

It's easy to say and it doesn't cement you to any reads. Similarly, "Slow the fuck down guys," is a useful but contentless sentiment (and I say this with the full knowledge I say this all the time myself).

Of course it doesn't cement people to reads because claiming isn't a substitute to reads. Especially in a U-Pick where roles where given out before alignment. It doesn't substitute for scumhunting it allows you to get on with it without having a bunch of half-claims out there, or part of the player list claiming and the rest not, scum using that to their advantage or having people with roles/abilities that they could use to clear each other...all which now, D10, is likely to be "used" up which may not have happened if a full claim was instigated days earlier instead of the charade that was D6-8.

It doesn't make sense to be completely in the dark until lylo when, as you admit, shenanigans can happen.

Magua - you really have to explain your thought process from "Alchemist claimed scum and there's no way we're lynching anybody else" to "Alfred's really the one I want to lynch today"

Alchemist claimed scum. There's no way we're not lynching him today unless someone else wants to claim scum.

But don't fucking put him at L-1 because I want to read Nautilus' magnum opus because Lord knows I do not feel Alfred can be town *at all*.

Messiah Complex: Weakest of my scumreads, mostly PoE.

The Alchemist: Meh, if your defense is "Yeah, I suck and lurk a lot," it's not really going to make me think any townier of you. A certain je ne sais quoi about the inevitability of his lynch is nice and registers as town, but not really enough to change my mind about anything. Big ol megapost boils down to "Nautilus says I'm scum, but I'm not scum, I just suck" which is so very meh.

Alfred Borden: Number one scumread, with a bullet. Really the one that I want to lynch today.

VOTE: Alfred Borden

I would be happy to start a Magua wagon if simply because of this. Not to mention Elliheathen's play wasn't great and she did literally ride on that claim of vanillerising Tierce being town.

[SafetyDance]

MC proceeds to get really really stuck on this point and continually insists SD literally cannot possibly be scum because of this night action. I've flipped back and forth several times on what this actually means- was MC trying to gain towncred from this, to simulate the expressions of others (there has been a lot of 'I think X is town because he used X beneficial action on me" which btw I think is bullshit overall), or to fake confirm SD for having an ability he actually did not have (highly unlikely)- but it still bears comment. ATM I think this works in SD's favor so long as we assume the rabbit is indeed real (very very likely either way).

I'm a bit...wary? now, 2 of my night actions (which

I

have never mixed up btw people) have actually hit scum and the other two are players still in the game. :/ That just adds to concerns I have that I'm not sure I can bring up properly (without invoking massive wifom etc).

...and now Naut is suddenly the top scumread 500 posts later for one thing. Obviously bullshit attempt to get town to doubt Naut's credibility now that he is looking remotely lynchable.

I'll stop here because not too long after this we get into MC-is-probably-being-lynched WIFOM territory. But Naut does become magically town again at the end of it.

This iso mentions Shadoweh roughly zero times. I actually think this is a good sign in terms of her alignment.

Easier to truncate to here...so what was the point of the massive wall then? You're more suspicious of Magua, less of TA who you're still voting? Shadow is clear? But then who goes into your scum list now?

I really don't think Shadoweh should be cleared at all here. Breezy jokey play from the start which hasn't really changed as the games gone on, with only self-depreciation as an excuse...the same shit we got from MC ("I tried to be town leader, waaaaaah") and getting from Bill. I liked Shadoweh's early start, she appeared comfortable, but for someone who was killed night one in Wire (yeah I had to re-check that) because of the strength of their play and threat I'm seeing absolutely nothing of that here.

Holy shit, scum had daytalk in Wire, Ben. Wow, probably should have known that beforehand :/. And I was confused, there's one extra scum in this game compared to that one. Not sure what difference that makes now.

I'm probably going to vote Magua. I haven't dived into MC yet but it appears he was trying to protect one of AB or Mag and Elle's play was not strong town. Although I don't think his replace in or refusal to read from the start is alignment-indicative. I mean if I had a choice from someone who dived straight in as he did over Titus' whole "I've got notes muthafucker, stop picking on me" show then I'd definitely choose the former.

A "Kill me now if Tierce is town" plea + claim, riding on that, not really helping the discussion there, then coming in day 5 with wishy-washy shit like this:

Up in the air about this whole SD thing. Thought he was for sure town up until this recent "I claimed this but did this" as if he's only

claiming

to have done something that he didn't actually do. 3178's especially, with "Therefore day 3 IS yesterday and yesterday was when I claimed to have blocked Naut D2."

I'd like to see this particular phrase uttered and I don't really know what to think between Quadz and SD, as I had them both as tentative town. So I'll keep my vote where it is for now and see if this 'V' (Varys? ) has anything to add.

If she was more suspicious of me before pre-Quadz shit then why not vote later on (which now looks like not wanting to get too close to a potential ML with having to make a choice). It looks like breezy fence-sitting scum waffle.

I know TA has been a strong read from the start but I think now Mag has more chance of flipping scum at this moment, if that makes sense, and is someone I'd probably push tomorrow regardless of a TA flip today...I mean this third "X"-scum could be anyone from the semi-town reads which applies to TA, heck been grouping him with Titus too, they're both not scum right?

Actually on Titus - From His POV if town!Titus how can Magua be town? Vanillizer, RBer, OS-Ablity RBer AND Global RBer = Self-watching RBer is somehow balanced?

Anyway that's enough rambling, I have nfi if any of this makes sense. See you next year.

Vote: Magua

[SafetyDance]

ANd Just because I said town has 0 chance to win this game, doesn't mean I've given up. I just know the outcome.

So why does someone town who's

not

given up push the game one mislynch closer to loss? Doesn't add up.

[SafetyDance]

Was going to respond all nihilistic to that quick-hammer and nk but see I've been pre-empted by a million pages of all that.

See everyone's reads are/were wind. No real surprise with the playerlist that's left.

Right now feel like voting Ben because he's the player I'd most like not to lose to at this stage. Play has been ridiculous and anti-town for too long now.

[SafetyDance]

Scum's plan for today may be "Let Benmage vote Marble and then win."
If Benmage is scum they leave Shadoweh to be the townie who votes me and NK Naut.
And yes, Benmage has done some town-Benmage things.

I'm at work now and I'm going to need more time to think.

Why are you, Naut and Ceph still alive? Yeah, now that's a plan to consider.

I'm agreeing with Titus. Good grief. >.< Is it too early for vodka?

[SafetyDance]

Was going to respond all nihilistic to that quick-hammer and nk but see I've been pre-empted by a million pages of all that.

See everyone's reads are/were wind. No real surprise with the playerlist that's left.

Right now feel like voting Ben because he's the player I'd most like not to lose to at this stage. Play has been ridiculous and anti-town for too long now.

Policy lynch for LyLo? Sure!

Hahaha sure, when I say something like that it is policy but ignore your bff ceph, I have 50% chance at the moment of hitting scum if I put a vote anywhere. Haven't seen anyone suggest anything or give off reads that improve that.

You've all changed your reads today at the drop of the hat, why can't I?

[SafetyDance]

SD, put your likely scumteam together please.

Unlike scum who have all their ducks in a row, I haven't come into the thread and suddenly got 3 concrete scum reads within 5 minutes of seeing the night kill.

As for scum lists I have no fucking idea why this is a thing. I have seen it happen in exactly 0% of games I've been in or read. Wtf is going to be achieved from it?

[SafetyDance]

Was going to respond all nihilistic to that quick-hammer and nk but see I've been pre-empted by a million pages of all that.

See everyone's reads are/were wind. No real surprise with the playerlist that's left.

Right now feel like voting Ben because he's the player I'd most like not to lose to at this stage. Play has been ridiculous and anti-town for too long now.

Policy lynch for LyLo? Sure!

Melodrama in Lylo! Sure!

SD, it's 5 oclock somewhere.

THE NIGHT IS DARK AND FULL OF BULLSHIT

There's already one troll still alive, we don't need another turning up.

Was going to respond all nihilistic to that quick-hammer and nk but see I've been pre-empted by a million pages of all that.

See everyone's reads are/were wind. No real surprise with the playerlist that's left.

Right now feel like voting Ben because he's the player I'd most like not to lose to at this stage. Play has been ridiculous and anti-town for too long now.

Policy lynch for LyLo? Sure!

Hahaha sure, when I say something like that it is policy but ignore your bff ceph, I have 50% chance at the moment of hitting scum if I put a vote anywhere. Haven't seen anyone suggest anything or give off reads that improve that.

You've all changed your reads today at the drop of the hat, why can't I?

Now, scum! Quickhammer!

Go on chance to bus Alfred. If you can renege on all your other reads doing it for this one wont look out of place.

SD, put your likely scumteam together please.

Unlike scum who have all their ducks in a row, I haven't come into the thread and suddenly got 3 concrete scum reads within 5 minutes of seeing the night kill.

As for scum lists I have no fucking idea why this is a thing. I have seen it happen in exactly 0% of games I've been in or read. Wtf is going to be achieved from it?

You don't see the reason of trying to figure out scum in lylo?
Fair.

No, I dont see the reason of quick-voting like Benmage, or giving a fucking arbitrary list 5 minutes into the day with out properly analysising the game or without figuring out why shit has happened. It's a joke that people are against massclaiming. In lylo. It's fucking absurd.

I am actually going to analyse the people still alive, iso dive, vca, actually thing about it. At least that's my plan. Going by all this spam and page count, gateway errors constant ninjas. I'll get an hour into and you and your friends will have spammed the thread enough and Ben will have thrown the game.

[SafetyDance]

Fuck sake, if people are happy to derp and throw the game immediately it wont be because of me being here. I'm out for the day, bye.

[SafetyDance]

Benmage-Nacho-An Other if I had to guess right now judging by the charade going on.

[SafetyDance]

I was going to start the day with a vote on Magua because I thought that if we're both town then this game was a lost already....looks like the case!

3/4 actions on scum. :/ I have other thoughts but I really cbf right now. Felt the game was too rushed later on and then yesterday was warpdrive in ridiculousness.

[SafetyDance]

When you're town and a) don't know if you're going to survive or b) know who the night kill is I don't understand why you would go into the day and rush your reads or start voting like that just based on one flip (the previous lynch). You can't quote posts either (for VCA) at night either. That was scum-push, town-enabled speed lynching though.

[SafetyDance]

Thank you for the game Faraday and being a receptacle to my pms

[SafetyDance]

Lmao, I used the doc save the night scum strongmanned. Typical.

Pedit: Faraday, oh i knew you couldn't, didn't expect you too!