Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

[Sajin]

Morning peeps, guess the thread took off already.

@Svenskt: What is your role name? Miller?

VOTE: Beauty and the Beast because beauty is often manipulative.


I also have no idea of the flavor of this game but I will look up whatever as it becomes relevant.

[Sajin]

@Svenskt: What is your role name? Miller?

Miller Tracker, apparently. Would you like to take a position on that?

I will wait to hear it from him. Don't be answering questions directed at other people please.

[Sajin]

@Svenskt: What is your role name? Miller?

Miller Tracker, apparently. Would you like to take a position on that?

I will wait to hear it from him. Don't be answering questions directed at other people please.

colonist aligned miller tracker

Setup

This setup is based upon the game Xenoblade Chronicles. This link may be useful to you to determine context throughout the game.

[*]Flips will will be of the form [Character, Alignment, Role name]. This will be all you're given in the way of relevant information.

@Sven- So when you die, in your estimation, what will your death flip be exactly? You can leave character as [character] when you reply to this.

[Sajin]

@Sven- Please try and format it for me. I quoted you the relevant part from the rules section.

@Guy in freezer- You have not seen my posts yet if you think that was a wall. Just wait for it.

[Sajin]

@Sven- Ok lets try this again, Sven. If you are not investigated as colonist then what are you investigated as?

[Sajin]

Guys just let nacho read and decide on his own.

@Sajin: what else did you expect?

P-Edit: posts!

I would always criticize miller day 1 claims. I also wanted to know whether he investigated as a specific anti town faction name (the win condition leave open scum multiball possibility). I have also encountered a faction specific miller in a theme game before (Kingdom hearts mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=4275 check role pm 13) Coincidentally that miller was a town miller tracker. Go figure. The miller player was a strong asset to the town in that game (not by night actions, but by day play) and I would like to give Sven the same chance.

Also this claim is still provable by flavor cop, role cop, tracker, watcher and various other kinds of roles.

Ok I think Sven is town. Or at least he could be and I am willing to give him a shot to live. Being a miller tracker, even in claim, will generate useful info over the course of a few days. I would like to reevaluate him in a few days based on play and association.

I also think this is large detriment to day 1 scumhunting so, its cool if you have an opinion on sven but I would encourage everyone to have an opinion on other people too.

Both of your roles?

VOTE: Sven

I think it is pretty obvious what he meant. Weak.

Varsoon is town too.

I'm

always

town. And never any cool roles, like Monado-wielder.

you can have mine. both of them

I bet your character is someone like Mumkhar or Dickson.

Can we not do random character speculation?

Varsoon is town too.

I'm

always

town. And never any cool roles, like Monado-wielder.

There is zero point to posting this at all.

Varsoon, what did you think of Sven's claim?

Honestly, I'll probably ignore the PR claim altogether when considering whether or not Sven is scum.
To me, claiming a town PR is the same as someone just saying "Hey, I am town," if a bit more lame since it hinges on some sort of town sympathy for PRs or something.
Generally, revealing PRs to the scum isn't a cool idea.
I don't know what the miller-tracker does. Please tell me.

P-EDIT:

Thanks, Sven.


That's a pretty damn convenient role to have if you're scum, and a shite one if you're town.
Regardless, I'm not going to think of you as miller-tracker, but as Sven, the maybe-town-guy.

Maybe this, maybe that. Bleh.

unvote

Vote: Varsoon

@Sven- So when you die, in your estimation, what will your death flip be exactly? You can leave character as [character] when you reply to this.

What were you insinuating with the picture link?

[Sajin]

@Sajin: pretty obvious what? Please enlighten me because I'm already at the stage where sven's rebuttal looks like he's trying to wiggle out of the situation.

I would forgive his newness to calling the two different aspects of his singular role as "roles" considering they are both standalone role names.

Varsoon is town too.

I'm

always

town. And never any cool roles, like Monado-wielder.

you can have mine. both of them

He even implied you would have to take one you probably would not like (miller) with the one you would like (tracker). I don't think it was a tell at all and is weak reasoning. Additionally it actually makes a lot of sense as it shows me his frustration at the heat a miller claim brings but also acknowledges it as a "cool role" at the same time. That post is one of the main reasons I suspect he is town.

Peeking back in.

Sajin, that vote on me does nothing. Why didn't you ask some questions with it, for me?
Makes me sad, Sajin.
Makes me sad.


Anyway, more out-of-this-game nonsense aside,
I could see how people'd want to lynch Sven.
We've got time, though, so why rush anything?

Ok, Why do you have so many useless fluff posts in thread? Why is your signal to noise ratio horrible? Is this style of posting the usual for you, in your opinion? Why are you sad?

[Sajin]

@Sajin: sven's not new. Will it change your view? (Omg rhyme)
Also, I don't see what you say in that post. Is it jjust my english?

Not really. Thoughts on my last post? If I need to clarify something due to language usage, let me know.

[Sajin]

I wish you guys would cool it a little bit. 40 pages already is a little much and I need a while to sift through it all. Give me a bit.

[Sajin]

i think i have done awesomely

i am almost lock clear

@Sven What does lock clear mean?

i think i have done awesomely

i am almost lock clear

You're also an outed power role for no good reason. I'm pretty sure you couldn't do much worse even if you tried.

- b

@2- I don't think it was played much differently in the theme game I linked where there was a miller tracker. You still think Sven scum, 2?

Unvote

fuck i hate that you guys can't take pressure

i am gonna deal with buldey.
i have been waiting for him to draw scum D1 for years and for years.
he can take me no matter how aggressive i get.

@Nacho You are being to obvious with what your doing here. Thus no effect.

Up to Page 10:
Var #136: That usually means there's a 50/50 chance you ain't town
Sven #139: Why would you ask the first question?
Orc #141: Yes. I will lynch half a dozen reaction test guy with you too. I fucking hate reaction tests.
Sven #149: If you've ever played with Nacho he's not acutally 'being bad at this' right now.
Orc #158: GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
Mac #161: This is true of almost every claim. If you're townie, you get killed. It's why Townie's can't afford to let themselves die. Why did you feel the need to post this?
TD #168: Someone asked you a question. Please answer the question. Plus, why did you feel the need to post this?
Mac #177: WIFOM is bad, but you not giving any sort of read is more bad. (Badder?)
Mac #179: You going to be this lazy during the game? Let me know know so I can vote you.
Fuck it.

Vote: Mac

\Sven, 187: WHY WOULD YOU FULLCLAIM NOW?
Mac, 188: ....Yeah, I still like my vote on you.
Sajin, 190: Was this an RVS or a serious vote?
Andrus, 199: GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
AJ, 201: The bad: You bothered to do setup speculation in a Large Theme. The good: The TD vote isn't bad if albeit predictable.
Sajin, 202: Seeing this is not a bastard, what's the use of this question?
Varsoon, 210: I don't like this post. I think it's the whole 'gee, it'll be hard to find scum' and the 'flipping based on information' bits.
Sajin, 232: I don't think you understand what the word 'Miller' means...
GIF, 239: Not sold on that.
GIF, 246: *Groans. Expects some sort of labyrinthine reasoning involving a scum slip, or simply not reading the thread.*

190: RVS.

202: Tried to get him to slip to death miller. Or maybe get faction name reveal if lying.

232: I probably understand more roles than anyone in this thread. Trust me on that one.

I prob should change my playstyle or something.

I'm going to bed now.

Hope sajin respond to me by the time I wake up.

I still think Sven's town. I can see why he phrased it that way.

@Sajin: You're probably scum, since you can't figure out anything from what I've posted so far and you're so quick to dismiss me as a useless fluffer of radio noise or whatever wiki-able word you're using this time. You've also been perched pretty conspicuously all game. Who remembers that Sajin is even in this game, off the top of their heads? Not I.
But, really, it makes me sad that you're so cruel, since I can only read you as a town jerk or scum trying to suffocate a weaker voice.


You're too infallible and it doesn't sit right. Town should be more skeptical of you.
Also, Orc, lighten up. It doesn't suit you to be so rigid.
Here is funny picture, maybe it will make you laugh.



P-EDIT: Serious bro, chill the more out.
I dislike how you'd like to see more from those on Nacho's town list, but don't mention me.
It's a real heart-breaker.


Also, I'd really like people to use the names of the hydras, rather than their owners'. It makes it less confusing for guys like me.

Eh a lot of people have a lot of noise in thread but you have a lot. Point in case: Random video link that does not even help make a point. I find day 1 high noise generators are likely scum because they are happy posting in the thread faking activity and not trying to figure out who scum is. There is your basic theory for signal to noise ratio being a scum tell. Your defensiveness to the subject and how I moved up your scumdar only earn you more scum points.

@Varsoon- Why did you self describe yourself as a "weaker voice". Can you explain what you meant by that? What makes a voice weak?

Ultimately, your play-style has been loud, but without substance. Your defenses seem more like backpedaling rather than standing your ground. The average user has posts about 10~20 times in this forum and you've made over 100 posts, and to what end?
You also support a really suffocating, elitist playstyle towards me, at the very least. I'd like to have a fun game with everyone in this thread, regardless of alignment, and it's pretty damn unfair how you've been towards me.
So, yeah, I hold a vote on you for personal reasons coupled with logical ones.
You're scum, through-and-through.

@Varsoon/everyone- I also find it hilarious that you mock me for making this argument on you and you make a similar argument on someone else. This makes me laugh.

11: RVS Vote
13: Why even say this? You're pressuring an RVS vote, I guess?
24: In response to what? You really seem to just be throwing a vote down to see what sticks, and this is the first of many. You bring up my sheeping as a cause to put votes on me, but this currently looks like a sheep of Nacho, if anything. You hop on the easiest wagon, which would be one on a D1 PR claim.
27 and post 29: You just seem lynch-hungry rather than actually trying to garner info. It's a lot of "What the Fucks" and "Don't Insult Us", rather than actual worth-a-shit town play.
30: Seems like you don't like absolutes. I'll point out every time you use an absolute from here on out, since you don't seem to think you're inconsistent.
37: "there is obviously a scum motivation behind a fakeclaim" -absolute. " I don't even know where to start in explaining how that doesn't work." -Absolute. It could work.
38: More of the same thing from 13. Now that you're out of RVS, it just seems like a thing you do. Of course, you can explain the wagons you don't clusterfuck over a cliff with "I supported wagons that weren't popular, see? I'm not scum!" Too easy of a break to give you.
57: Despite being so dead-set on Sven as scum, here you return to a player who hasn't even likely been online since your RVS push. It seems like a positioning tactic to come off as more consistent, but it's inconsistent with how you felt about Sven just minutes before.
58: Playing town.
68: Sets up lynches. If Sven is your scum-buddy, that is. If Sven flips town, then this just looks like town-positioning and even I've done this as scum.
81: "Name a Lurker", I really don't see any town motivation to amusing this sort of WIFOM coming from Cabd.
87: So, departing from the pressure that went nowhere and the Sven that you still think is scum, here's a GIF vote because he avoids hot-topics? What about the other half of the playerbase? Literally looks like a vote put on GIF for being active, hinging on levied offenses that are the very things that Orc is decrying in this post.
92: More absolutes, calls Cabd town and all that. Honestly, I've given up on stating every technically absolute thing you've said, but jeeze, man, c'mon.


Ug, I'm only halfway through this ISO on you and it's already a headache. Let's fast-forward:

108: Sonic vote again. Really wants this. Could literally be pressuring one of the fifty-two lurkers but keeps with sonic because town's consistent and Orc sure is town.
119: Throwing the vote around like it is RVS despite the game being 100 posts deep.
133: If the policy of Rach is a joke, it's one made in bad taste. Also, nice townlist. Should be a null-list.
141: Hey, nice to be in another game with you, I look forward to having fun and--oh, no, nevermind, you're a jerk. Refer to my recent posts on why this is a problem.
367: Talked about this already. The fact you keep an RVS-esque joke thrown down during 200 posts is really strange, given your voting methods so far and the fact you're so opposed to me/see me as scum.
436: Weak rationale on a weak vote on another new entry. Again, seem to be just tossing around a vote.
667: 200 posts later, a return to the TD wagon that didn't push itself enough, I guess. You never stay with any wagon, but seem to bounce to what makes sense at the time.
679: Am I supposed to read your votes as pressure? Why aren't you squeezing harder and on more questionable players? The most active players are Nacho, 2, and Sven, outside of you.

dntfkingcare
Sajin
TiphaineDeath
Andrius
Aj The Epic
Ghostlin
BROseidon 2
Metal Sonic
TMTOLBTWNTOF
fferyllt

These people all have less than 10 posts in a thread verging on 700 total.
Orc and pals, can you be less chatty?
Go talk to people in AIM or something.
It's literally noise -and- confusion, and it lets players like TD and AJ, who have been pressured fairly, just sit back and do nothing while others gab, waffle, and WIFOM the game into oblivion.

Right. Fake activity hunting. I have been part in a game that lynched the person doing this crazy amount of activity hunt day 1 and 2. You know what they flipped? Mafia (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=11674) . Fferyllt is not even part of the game and is part of the 2 hydra. Did you even read the names of the people you are acting like you want more content out of?

This game does not have an activity problem. At all. It has a Varsoon problem. Still happy with my Varsoon vote.

@everyone- Please work on lowering the amount of contentless posts in this game. There were several pages that I felt could of belonged in off topic, sheesh.

[Sajin]

Cool, put them in bold with my name next to them so I'll see them next time.

Or just ask them again right here/direct me to the post.

You have about 5-6 points addressed right to you in post 1006.

[Sajin]

Sven/Reverend is still town.

Your predecessor claimed Miller Tracker before he went out. I could see you claiming Miller as town Miller Tracker, sure. I could not see you playing the whole "I don't care if I'm lynched today" if you were also a power role on top of the miller aspect, though. I also didn't like that you had excuses for the late Miller claim after replacing in.

Really Nacho? Are you town this game?

I need to read some more fferylit.

@Varsoon: Do you have any intention of addressing any of the points I brought up against you in post 1006? Or will you continue to not answer concerns?

[Sajin]

I understand why my slot is a problem for you guys. But you have to ask why as scum sven would first of all claim miller, then full claim miller-tracker for no apparant reason, and why I would come in and say stuff like "tracker role sucks" without having the means to back my comment up. I'm a lot more careful, at least I try to be, when scum. I tend to be haphazard when town, because I just post what I think and don't worry about how it's perceived by town. When scum, I read back my posts to try and make sure I'm not fucking up. Of course, this is self-meta, which isn't of any use to anyone who doesn't know my game. But jiffy is aware of my town game, and he knows I can be all over the place.

Please stop doing this. I recently started reading you as town, and it hurts that you do things like this to me.

You do it to yourself. Fine you can be town. Do me a favor and get varsoon to answer my case while I am gone for memorial day weekend.

[Sajin]

No, I'm not worried. I'm just wondering why I'm there. I should be null at worst.

Everyone is town until proven otherwise.

I disagree with this mentality. The mentality for me is everyone has the possibility of being scum until shown to be more likely or less likely so.

This is why you will find yourself at the end of my lynchrope if you are a non contributor. You just find yourself there more quickly with scummy play.

Right now nacho and Mac hit me as town.

Null on AJ.

@KBW: Why?

@Rev, Give me a second, I'll refute all your points. I care, and I have you as town, but you're making me really doubt that, and, as town, that's probably not something you wanna do--make town think you're scum, that is.

Could you scum it up any more?

Again you use subtle town references to emphasise your alignment. I don't feel the need to do that when town. This follows from your very first post, which is a town claim. This is what I mean by obvious scum. It's almost too obvious.

I don't care if any townies think I'm scum. I'll either get lynched or vig'd, then yay the miller issue is cleared up. It's actually a lot easier to play miller than I anticipated, at least so far it is.

Slam a vote, start a wagon, and get me lynched.
I'm town now and I'll still be town then.
Alternatively, you could actually hunt scum.

@Varsoon- Your post content is absolute crap. If you are town, there should be no problem with responding to my case on you. Your blatant disregard to it shows me you either don't care about my vote on you or you are trying to dodge it and hope it goes away. You claimed you responded in 1914 but I have seen no such post.

What is really sad is over the last 30 or so pages I think its probably coming from town. But your still being a huge distraction even if you are town. Fix it please.

ok, basic reads:

Rev - null, but not liking putting his null reads in scum pile.
Cabd - townie
Metal Shounic - null
Varsoon - annoying but town
and AJ - same as always, jerky. leaning scum

Explain the Varsoon read.

Varsoon, I think you're scum at this point, but honestly, I think a lot of it is mob mentality on the part of others, except for Rev. So if you'll kindly redirect me to a post or posts you've made that details every reason you're not scum instead of saying you've been playing town and leaving at that, I'll retract my scumread.

@TMTO: This is a strawman setup. Please don't do this with reads.

Nacho, yeah I attacked Orc for being an AtE player. But that's a true part of his process. There's nothing denying that. Other than that, I'm sorry I'm having a shit game. Not going to go into preservation mode.

I would like to point out (Actually, it wasn't really planned) that while I was gone, you may have talked about me a lot, but you generally stuck away from voting for me simply because I hadn't posted at all (exception: rach). This is, unfortunately, happening with the only confirmed scum player in this game, TmT.

@Broseidon: Where is TmT confirmed scum?


I think 2 is probably scum this game. This is mostly based on the fferylit half of the hydra's tone and subject content.


@Varsoon preview edit: This is funny coming from someone that has the most noise in their posts among anyone in the thread.

[Sajin]

@Broseidon: Where is TmT confirmed scum?

Everything you quoted me as saying was said by AJ.

My bad. I was reading too quick to catch up and failed a quote cut.

@AJ then, Where is TmT confirmed scum?

[Sajin]

@Sajin: Sorry about being shitty town.
Give me the post number of your case and ask any other questions you now have.
I've been all over the place in this game, and I'd like to -actually- do some town work rather than cynical alignment confirmations.

@SAJIN: I want to re-iterate what I've said here.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that there's not much hypocritical, considering that I've got less than half the posts that 2 does.
How do people not have a solid read on 2 yet?
I'm doing an ISO right now to solve this once and for all, at least, for myself.
There's no way a player is 400 posts deep and people haven't agreed on an alignment.

Post count is not indicative of alignment nor is it indicative of how easy someone is to read.

You probably just have a flawed perspective on post count->alignment.

Just lower your fluff content and keep your posts on topic is all I ask. One of the reasons Orc could not find your gambit is the amount of fluff posts in the thread. Post 1006 is the relevant concerns I brought up about you and I am still interested in why you self described yourself as a weaker voice and I am also curious what you think is a "suffocating playstyle". Look it up in that post for context.

And yes 400 posts may not be enough to determine alignment.

[Sajin]

Hi Venmar.

Recap of this game probably looks like:

2/Aj constant suspects
TMT is scum but no one wants to lynch for some reason. (Had 8 null reads in his one read list)
GIF is town without question
Rev claimed miller/tracker early on in the thread
Varsoon is trolling. Came up with a strategy that almost got people modkilled. Luckily, people actually have played this game before.
Rach is also trolling. But apparently town.
Andrisu and BRO seem to be incredibly busy and so most of their stuff is catch-up posting
Orc, Nacho, BnB, 2 posted way too much early on. 2 still posts way too much.
Cabd is almost certainly town (based on a few townslips)
Majiffy may get leashed by mollie
Metal Sonic has an infamous 2 minute iso of Tiphlaine Death. We're trying to get him to admit he didn't read anything. (he also "read" 30 pages in 15 minutes)
Buldermar (part of 2) posted the first wall he's ever posted (I guess)

In actual game events, we only have 1 claim (Sven/Rev's) which caused a lot of discussion. He claimed Miller first and 10 pages later added tracker. On switch-in, Rev only claimed Miller. Later admitted to full claim being true, said he didn't want to full claim his power role even though he expected to get lynched. Something about "Oh trackers are useless anyways..."

And you fault Rev for this, AJ? Theoretical situation: you start a different game and you read your miller tracker role pm. How do you play it, AJ?

Beauty and the Beast is really really really really really really town btw. Meta+content.

I also think fery is playing with a scum role pm this game. I can't read the other half of the hydra but I do not think this is fery's town game. Way too defensive on various topics for me to think it is a town slot.

vote: 2

(Sorry for not posting more working 2 jobs atm)

[Sajin]

I'm starting to suspect we might have a lyncher/lynchee... but I'm not sure if that's the sort of thing that would be in a game like this. Would explain a lot though.

Please don't start with this. If there is 3rd party win condition should not affect town play ever. The victory condition for such a 3rd party will not end the game prematurely, and if it does I will lynch the mod in the post game.

Lynch based on scum play and town play and don't use this as a reason to doubt.


But hey out of curiosity what would a lyncher help explain?

[Sajin]

Unvote

Yo. Sup.

101 pages.

I will skip them all.

Who's scum? And who should I be sheeping?

I am fine with you sheeping Beauty and the Beast and myself and joining the 2 wagon for today. After that, I expect independent thoughts from your slot. Better yet, independent thoughts before the day ends. Don't disappoint.

Actually it was more of a collective effort of Eddard and 6 others, so he only really gets 1/7 of the credit

I thought it was just Eddard and Reed. I know there were 7, but i thought it only took 2. Meh.

@Rach - It's mostly a gut feeling really. Not seeing much scumminess.

@Venmar- Have a spine please. If it is a gut feeling and you felt like posting about it, it must be because you were trying to convince someone else of your position. Yet you have nothing to backup your position. This earns scum points from me.

[Sajin]

Nevermind that was 'jiffy.

Signing posts to distinguish which half of the hydra is which is op.

Basic observational and deductive skills in a game that is based on the development of these very skills is op.

Sure but it would probably help more people get a clearer picture with signing. I usually am a stickler on this about hydras, but mollie made your hydra really easy to read for me so I personally don't care if you sign or not. But, helping everyone else out would be awesome. It would just take a quick -MAJ.

[Sajin]

@Venmar- Have a spine please. If it is a gut feeling and you felt like posting about it, it must be because you were trying to convince someone else of your position. Yet you have nothing to backup your position. This earns scum points from me.

- Lol wtf is this.

It is a proper reasoned accusation. What is the point of your post? If you disagree with what I said, say so and explain.

[Sajin]

I am fine with you sheeping Beauty and the Beast and myself and joining the 2 wagon for today. After that, I expect independent thoughts from your slot. Better yet, independent thoughts before the day ends. Don't disappoint.

- So you want SAD to have independent thoughts, but

only after

he is done supporting your wagon? Sounds a lot like you're only fine with him sheeping because he's initially supporting your wagon, which sounds like if he was sheeping anyone else your stand would be a lot different. tsk tsk.

You try replacing into a game 3 days till deadline in a 100 page thread and try to make heads or tails of the game without sheeping. Sounds like you just wanted to bring up some OMGUS to me because you did not like my last post. Tsk tsk. A reply to that post would be nice too.

[Sajin]

I am fine with you sheeping Beauty and the Beast and myself and joining the 2 wagon for today. After that, I expect independent thoughts from your slot. Better yet, independent thoughts before the day ends. Don't disappoint.

- So you want SAD to have independent thoughts, but

only after

he is done supporting your wagon? Sounds a lot like you're only fine with him sheeping because he's initially supporting your wagon, which sounds like if he was sheeping anyone else your stand would be a lot different. tsk tsk.

You try replacing into a game 3 days till deadline in a 100 page thread and try to make heads or tails of the game without sheeping.

Sounds like you just wanted to bring up some OMGUS to me because you did not like my last post. Tsk tsk. A reply to that post would be nice too.

- I'm sorry, but are you fucking retarded?

No I am not retarded. I would sheep if I replaced into a game close to deadline. I answered your question care to answer mine?

[Sajin]

@Venmar- Have a spine please. If it is a gut feeling and you felt like posting about it, it must be because you were trying to convince someone else of your position. Yet you have nothing to backup your position. This earns scum points from me.

- Lol wtf is this.

It is a proper reasoned accusation. What is the point of your post? If you disagree with what I said, say so and explain.

Venmar this is the initial question I asked you. Can you respond to that?

[Sajin]

Venmar.... really really likes waffles. I will decide on his alignment when I get a better answer to my concerns yesterday than "I answered it already"

Why is sajin town again?

I want to look at him and varsoon today

Sajin 1955

Varsoon among others, 2015, 2094- wtf? Last two paragraphs complete shit trying too hard to convince he's town, 2189 like a continuation of 2094

Get an avatar please.

Why is sajin town again?

I want to look at him and varsoon today

What you are reading is how abrasive my playstyle can be and because it is different than how the average player plays town you assume he must but be opposite of what the average player is (town) and is therefore scum. If that is correct, then please talk to nacho or someone else and get a reason from them. If that is not correct, feel free to ask me some questions.

Your also wrong about varsoon.

WHY IS MELIA A VANILLA?????????????????????????????????????/


bork what is this flavor mismatch

Because if flavor matched power in all cases you would have an imbalanced game because many people could be cleared by a little mod meta and a mass claim. Welcome to good mafia setup design. (Side note, I have no idea about the flavor of this game, I am assuming your claim about melia is accurate that she is a main character)

ON topic:

Bleh, I misread 2

good job Bnb, you were still on my town list still so meh

2 was degraded from town to leaning town, just before the lynch

oh and reverend wasn't lying! #1

Sonic just earned 10 scum points from me. Will that be cash or credit Mr Sonic?

[Sajin]

I picture a 50 foot wall between these 2 houses complete with spiked fences. Do you know anything else about each other besides that the other is your neighbor? Yes or no is fine.

Also how long is your conversation (post count of your quicktopic, or length)

Are you day neighbors? Or just night?

[Sajin]

Venmar.... really really likes waffles. I will decide on his alignment when I get a better answer to my concerns yesterday than "I answered it already"

[Sajin]

So, in my read of the remaining four/five people on 2's wagon, I started with Sajin. (The following people had no connection to 2: BRO and Mac and I had cleared them of associative tells/nothing clanging wrong in their ISO. Venmar/don't fucking care...well, honestly, DFC did NOTHING day 1, and Ven's not be indicatively telling.)

A bit of background: I liked an early post by Sajin in my catchup, but nothing he had done recently had really meshed well with me. I was, however, expect in general a townish push in 2's direction, interaction. For example, BNB was mentally cleared by me from a null due to his fight with 2, I couldn't see the fabrication there. I found some things that bothered me. I did share this with Orc last night, although I am changing it up a little bit in case of the whole 'thou shall not quote outside this thread' is a rule.

I'll sort this into two categories: things that are more having to do with association, and general tells for me, so the players not buying 'scum on the 2 wagon' can ignore any ravings I have in the second half.

Things that bother me in a scummish way:

*No reads post. While he does have some stances, Town players are quick to have a progression of reads with set reads. He's missing the 'set reads' part of 'progression of reads'. I'm not sure this is the same thing that Nacho and BnB talk about when they talk trajectory. (I will talk more about progression of reads in a part below.)

*He rolefishes Sven by asking point blank what his role name was. (I'm talking about 190, if you want to play along.) Admittedly, this could be taken out of context. I'm not thrilled 100% of him asking more information about how our neighborhood works either or AJ doing the same, but I concede that might be paranoia talking. Yes, I answered the questions he posed mostly because they don't give scum a huge advantage.

*There's some causal cogitive dissonance between his stance in #2060 with KBW and his stance later in #2086. Granted, you could argue he's talking mostly about fluff in his stance in #2060 and #2086, but the very essence of not contributing to Town is not posting hardly anything at all; so the stances to me read awkward. (Note: I didn't share this with Orc, I just noticed it myself.)

Associative Things (2 wagon):

*He votes 2 in #2060, but the remainder of his push, the person he most interacts with the remainder of the day is Venmar. He even mentions accusing Venmar in one post. He doesn't push 2 at all except to mention it'd be ok for SAD to vote them in #2556. The posts don't indicate any interest in attacking 2 further. There's no natural progression there, not even a half-way passive '2 is scum' post. In other words, he votes someone and doesn't seem that interested in their lynch. He's more interested in cross-examining Venmar (which, my read last night made me think he thought Venmar was scum).

Also, he forms a causal link in #2556 to BnB, who is generally seen as town by saying to SAD 'You may sheep me and BnB today...'. This is a 'town by association' trick. Smooth.

*There's no other interaction between him and 2, and the reasoning for the 2 wagon is incredibly weak. He mentions that Fery is defensive (which is almost verging on tone), can't read the other half of the hydra; and doesn't ask another question. In fact, if 2 asked him a question, he doesn't answer it, and 2 took swipes at a lot of people, Nacho and BnB among them. It makes no sense and is tied with the bullet point above. If you can't read half of a hydra, why wouldn't you interact with them as much as possible.

More to come, and I will be voting but I want an answer from Varshoon about my question.

If your logic is rolefished Sven, therefore scummy that is a horrible horrible logic fail. If you would call that rolefishing, then I would rolefish a miller claim again and again and ask for clarification on a claim again and again. That is what I did with both miller and neighbor claims. I laughed when I read this logic. Please, tell me how if I was scum I would gain an advantage by doing those? Sven/rev was obvious town.

I disagree with your logic about hydras. I had a scum read on fery due to meta, but I could not read the other half. I also have a town read on mollie due to meta but I cannot read majiffy. But BECAUSE they are hydras that is perfectly fine because they only have one alignment. I have no need to get a read on the one half applies to the other. This is the great thing about hydras. Why would it matter if I cannot read the other half of the hydra in both of these cases? It doesn't....

@Ghostlin: clarify why my handling of Sven or my stance on reading one head of a hydra should be remotely considered scummy.Also, how experienced of a player are you? (And if you would not mind, let metal sonic reply to the case/my response first)

By the way, I did answer it before.

@Venmar- Have a spine please. If it is a gut feeling and you felt like posting about it, it must be because you were trying to convince someone else of your position. Yet you have nothing to backup your position. This earns scum points from me.

- Lol wtf is this.

It is a proper reasoned accusation. What is the point of your post? If you disagree with what I said, say so and explain.

- No, it's nitpicking, and your reasoning is incredibly stretched to say the least.

Here I think.

Really venmar? Really? You know that was not good enough for me. I would think you would be willing to give a few more words on the subject rather than what I can obviously see for myself already.

Vote: Venmar

Varsoon town:

I'd rather lynch the newb. Why? It prevents you underestimating them, and, furthermore, you can meta the experienced ones. Every scum has the same level of power in the game (that is, a night kill) outside of PRs, so if it's equally likely that both are scum, the question becomes not so much who holds tangible power but what the nature of intangible power is.

Varsoon scum:

Oh right, now i get you, it read like scum sitting there forgeting that confirming someone town means confirming the scum

Makes sense.
Still, I don't want the time issue to make us over-rush things. We should be really sure about who we lynch. I'd rather not risk a mislynch on something that isn't substantial, or a fluke.

That said, I wish Voided could come in and make some comments. It hasn't been that long since his last post, but I feel like it's better to have a lot of posts and interactions to look at and garner reads from rather than just a few.

Varsoon town:

No, you didn't. But if you start talking about 'not-so-talkative' people, you should have at least players in mind.
Because it's way too early to talk about things like that. Take me for example. Just after you posted it, I was done with dinner. Before I started posting, I only had 1 post. Why? Because of my sister's birthday, staying over at my boyfriend's and work. People have lives and calling them out after one day of playing is bad.
I want the pre-game over and you, Serra and Untrod caught my interest during it. For me, it's good enough to look at it.

Pre-game is over.

Let's keep our personal lives out of the game. ATE comes up sometimes and I'd rather it not in this one. I've seen games where scum has lurked 15 pages and made clever dodges about family and loved ones in order to dodge suspicion. We all, as players, understand that people are busy and can't lurk the forums 24/7. I think that we can also agree that if a player makes no post within about 5 days, they should be scrutinized.

With as many power roles as there are, it's an interesting set up. We, however, should play as if there are just town and mafia for now. PRs can become an issue to think about after the first day. Talking about it today will only lead to fluff discussion and won't get to the core of what needs to get done--scumhunting.

I'm going to go on a limb and say that one of the people posting so far is scum. Why? Scum often posts early on in threads instead of waiting to introduce and post. Also, it's statistically likewise, too, assuming a 1 to 3 scum/town ratio.

Varsoon scum:

@Orozorro: I don't like participating in RVS. I'd rather do something to get players engaged and out of random voting and flinging baseless accusations until something sticks.

Yeah, that should definitely read "I'd rather not give them that pleasure."


I'm kinda curious as to what AA means about balancing it out, myself.

Orozorro, what do you think of the other players?

I like this post. This is exactly what I felt day 1 too from some different posts. I think Varsoon is town though.

No fucking way waynegg would be scum and forget mac is dead. He'd have read the shit out of his quicktopic. Twice for good measure.

Townslip

It might have been on purpose



Sajin, put it into credit for me kthx

I may need to re-iso aj again

Interesting. Callous disregard to my previous comment.

Metal Sonic: What do you think about what ghostlin posted about me? What do you think about my response?

(I would prefer to have metal sonic's opinion on that case before you reply, ghostlin if you do not mind).

[Sajin]

Sajin, what do you think about AJ?

I have my doubts, but yes I think AJ could be scum.

How many scum groups do you think there are, Nacho?

[Sajin]

So, here's how this goes: I'm going to read, let you guys do work and when you want my final reads, I'll give them.

(I'm VT, so there isn't any need for claim. This lynch will go through.)

As right now, too much of what I say is taken as WIFOM, it is best if I keep to myself here.

Yeah....this post is horrible.

@Venmar: Seriously how hard is it to answer a question? Would be easier just to answer then complain about it.

@Tiphaine: AJ has more experience then to be in that position.

This is my hydra, my fault.

[Sajin]

@Venmar: Your still a bit of a moron by making it way too obvious. But I guess since 3 people have no idea then it was not obvious enough.

Ghostlin: Go reread end of day 1. Report back when you have found something please. Also I had a good reason to vote park on venmar yesterday. Lets see if someone else points it out for you, or you find it first.

Also Ghostlin, I don't think you responded when I asked how experienced you were yet? Or were you waiting for sonic?

Sonic: Respond with what I asked of you yesterday.

Vote: RachMarie

It is extremely obvious why there were one death more last night then the night before.

[Sajin]

I don't think you responded when I asked how experienced you were yet?

I'm fairly experienced. I'm not Nacho/DGB experienced, but I played for quite a few months before I site flaked and came back.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

Because then I think you should of picked up on end of day 1, start of day 2 event.

Thoughts on RachMarie?

[Sajin]

@Andy you really don't understand my vote even though you claim to. Your not even reading the thread.

@Orc I completely agree with you on sonic scum. But we should lynch Rach today.

Why was my case derp. Don't discredit me Majiffy...

Also, I will be keeping an eye on Rachmarie. Don't let me die baby Rachy.

PEdit: Lol I called AJ town. Venny is so good.

You really think he did not crumb, Orc?

[Sajin]

@Ghostlin, you ever getting back to me about end of day 1 end of day 2 event?