Royal Family Mafia - Game Over!

[Thok]

random vote HackerHuck

for rhyming with LuckayLuck.

[Thok]

Very silly vote counts, mod. Good show.

[Thok]

Obviously bird is a kamakaze[/sarcasm]

[Thok]

I got the impression that LuckayLuck's third reason was based off of a newbie protown tell that he uses. (I could be wrong, of course.) I can't assess LL's particular tell, since I don't know what it is, but I do believe that there is a "typical protown newbie behavior", and what little I've seen of Canuckle's play fits in with that.

Obviously, further posts by Canuckle will allow us to better assess his protownness or scumminess.

[Thok]

The Official “Abridged Yu-Gi-Oh!” Vote Count!

Ibelly, I think I'm pregnant. And Bakura's the father!

(OK, I made that statement up. But I'm just letting people know I'm still here.)

[Thok]

Happened to me in the beginning. When I started playing on mafiascum I was so bored of games being so slow and used to have sigged that I try to have quick days in all my games since I was lynched for that couple of times.

Perhaps you should try playing chat mafia or consider looking for a mafia site with a faster pace?

Alternatively, you could try being more aggressive. You know, bandwagon, attack people, hunt for inconsistancies, etc.

Stupidity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I have much more sympathy for Jack's complaint about long days, since at least he's made some attempt to vote/push things. As far as I can tell, Twito's decided not to put in any effort and is now leeching onto LuckayLuck.

unvote Hackerhuck, vote Twito

[Thok]

Since LL for better or worse has dominated the thread, I just wanted to add a couple of paragraphs about my thoughts on him/his style of play.

LL has claimed that he has a system of finding townie tells that are useful to him. I find that reasonable; it's not a standard style of play, but it may be one that works for him. I don't expect him to 100% accurate (nobody can be 100% accurate), but if he is town and if his instincts are simply better than average, his input can be useful.

I will say that his townie spreadsheet is not helpful in some respects; while LL gives his impressions of who he thinks is protown, his spreadsheet doesn't tell us for the most part why he thinks people are protown. Saying "lots of townie tells" is something of a copout that avoids explaining why somebody is protown or antitown. (Not that LL should explain the townie tells for each person in all the full gory details, as if he's town that could help scum decide what sorts of things he is looking for. But if LL is town, simply making some of his reasoning more apparent would make him more useful).

It also strikes me as strange that much of the discussion of LL has been fairly theoretical (discussing if townie tells really exist), but that it feels like very few people have asked LL to give some example of what he is looking for.

[Thok]

On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.

Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.

I consider this a protownish tell from Canuckle. I'd prefer going after Twito.

[Thok]

It's more of a trying to actually understand the argument and not simply blindly trying to refute it sort of thing.

[Thok]

One more question(I know, I have a lot, but this site has many more phrases and what-not than other places I've been):

On this forum, if you

Confirm Vote

someone, does that mean your vote is irreversible?

No, it just means you're really confident about your vote being correct.

About my protown tell, I admit that it wouldn't work for everybody. If I asked what WIFOM means, I'd expect everybody to laugh in my face.

However, I'm using the additional information that Canucklehead is relatively new to the forums (essentially there's an additional fact that I don't believe that he has had time to adjust his game in such a way to avoid certain newbie town/scum tells).

[Thok]

Not that I can't appreciate what you are trying to do Pooky, but didn't you try this in Lights Out and have it fail disasterously? Unless you're going to be careful with the admittence policy, most of the scum will jump at the chance to try to hide within this team.

(Also, my avatar is hurt by your support for superheroes. Supervillains need love too, especially the Spot.)

[Thok]

Blah, I've been putting this game on a backburner.

Is there a point to the Bogre wagon other than "LL says so"?

Is there a point to the IH wagon?

[Thok]

Any news for us Canucklehead?

[Thok]

Canuckle, why are you exposing a massive liability to your role for everybody to see?

[Thok]

Zindaras's name is green, which suggests he's town-aligned. Also, we're missing too many kills for there to be an SK around. Cult strikes me as unlikely, given that the high mod PJ would rather burn himself alive than deal with cults.

If anything, I might guess that he was a miller or a protown survivor.

[Thok]

vote:Jack

When I turn up town, watch Jack, STD, and Twito. That is all.

Twito? He's um, dead. We lynched him day 1.

vote IH

[Thok]

After a truly enchanting dinner, I managed to pour enough Whiskey down our collective throats for him to confess to me that he was plotting to murder me most surreptiously during the next night.

Alright, then.

Vote: Thok

Shtick people. Shtick.

(I've really been neglecting this game.)

[Thok]

You argument that IH townie seems to be that nobody made any arguments about him; but there was all that stuff from Ether yesterday.

(I'm also voting him because I felt when he gave out names on who he found suspicious he was just spouting out mostly random names when he said who he felt was scum (in post 833); he included a person who was already dead.)

[Thok]

Yes Thok. I randomly chose some names and shouted out SCUMSCUMSCUM.

I'm sticking with Jack.

I did say mostly random; Jack I'm sure wasn't random.

[Thok]

1.Why
2.Thok, why did you think that my suspicions were random?

I think your Jack suspicion wasn't random, it's a natural continuation of what you've been doing the last few days. But you really haven't said much about STD, and the third person you've listed was Twito, who was dead. It felt like you were trying to list Jack and two random names to look at.

Looking over your posts, I can see where you think HackerHuck suspicious.

[Thok]

(I've really been neglecting this game.)

Yeah.

So, I'm back. I don't think I'd mind a Thoklynch especially. Better than Pooky's last two picks. I want Thok's opinions of Cogito, Jack, MoS, Nightson and Day 2. (I am aware of his...meh, I'm not referring back to the V/LA thread, some kind of condition; I'm patient, sympathetic and probably a bit run-on-sentence-happy. Stupid "being awake for over 24 hours straight due to time zone swaps" factor.)

On CES-A wise person (PJ) told me to look out for CEScum when he's trying to be helpful and chatty and to figure he's townie when he's being not helpful and just voting people. CES has been not helpful and voting people; ergo he's probably town.

Jack is either scum or a pigheaded townie. I don't like his response to the Twito wagon late day 1, when he already had voted for him earlier. Don't like his WIFOM defense.

Have little to no read on lurkerNightson. Why mention him and not other lurker types (Fritzler, Bogre, TEOM)?

Not a fan of MOS attack on LL. He hasn't been saying much.

Day 2 thoughts
Don't like Canuckle revealing details about his role that can't help town.
Wow, the Arafax lynch comes out of nowhere and looks a lot like the sudden jump onto me today (Pooky placing a vote, lots of people following, Ether pushing support of it for frankly dubious reasons [in retrospect the Arafax-IH connection was stretched).
If I didn't have Canuckle around, I'd think Pooky/Maz were scummy.

Also Ether, is there a reason you've stopped rhyming?

OK, a look over things makes me want to reconsider the IH wagon; I'll go with an

unvote, vote MOS

[Thok]

I do find it weird that LL's assessment of my scumminess/townieness depends more on the contents of Twito's role PM than on my actions, for what it's worth.

[Thok]

An Unofficial Vote Count since we need one (with a deadline in 4 days)

IH – 4 – Jack, Cogito Ergo Sum, Fritzler, TheEyeofMordor
Thok – 3 – PookyTheMagicalBear, Canucklehead17, Maz Medias
Cogito Ergo Sum – 3 – Save the Dragons, HackerHuck, the silent speaker

Mastermind of Sin – 2 – Ether, Thok

Jack – 1 – IH
Nightson – 1 – VitaminR
LuckayLuck – 1 – Mastermind of Sin
Fritzler - 1 - LuckayLuck

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch!

Not Voting – 2 – Bogre, Nightson

If I understand the deadline lynch rules, we need a majority of a normal lynch to lynch (so 6 votes, as a majority of 10). We also have

Mod

, I would like prods on the following people, (everybody who has yet to post in March, last day posted included). Alternatively, I'd be happy with a general activity check. Also, could you clarify my interpretation of the deadlin rules?

Bogre (Feb 28)
Canucklehead17 (Feb 28)
Ether (Feb 24)
HackerHuck (Feb 24)
Nightson (Feb 20)
PookyTheMagicalBear (Feb 22)
the silent speaker (Feb 28)

[Thok]

From what I've seen, by martyr PJ means what's commonly called a bodyguard (he mentioned his use of the terminology in this post in mafia discussion). I think both of those are on MBF's flash intro.

I can see too many reasons for an extra death for us to be sure what caused it now
1. Might have something to do with Martyr+Canuckle's claimed investigation of LL.
2. Might have something to do with Jail (LL was locked up before).
3. Might have something to with roles/role mechanics yet to be revealled.

[Thok]

I am here. No need for a prod.

[Thok]

I'd be happy with a Jack lynch at this point. He's been the second option for a while (when we know the first options-IH and Arafax) have been town. And it seems his only scum hunting technique right now is "Vote scummy looking people on my bandwagon and deny I've done anything"; Best-wosrt case scenario he's a completely useless protown player.

[Thok]

I'm not voting Jack because he's currently at lynch -2, and I'm willing to let him talk for a while.

And as for my comments, most of Jack's votes have been attacking Canuckle (probable cop), attacking Arafax (known town) for his vote on Jack, and attacking IH (known town). You haven't been getting lynched despite a large portion of the town finding you scummy for a significant portion of the game, and the people who've you've OMGUSed attacked have been getting lynched as town.

[Thok]

Hey Jack. Name 3 people you think are likely to be protown.

[Thok]

So, you've given me the two obvious choices (claimed cop plus investigation target), one of whom you've voted repeatedly, and the other person you gave is the one of the few people today who has said "don't lynch Jack!". Again, this gives an example of how you're not really analyzing people and just calling people scum if they vote for you.

As for your argument.

You voted IH.

I actually gave reasons for my vote. I also changed my mind after assessing how the IH wagon came to be.

And there hasn't been a large portion of the town finding me scummy. This is the most votes I've ever had.

You were one of the alternatives to Twito day 1. The only reason people have been holding back on voting you is because town has been giving Canucklehead a chance to investigate you and because town decided to go after IH/Arafax instead.

I haven't OMGUS attacked anyone except c-head and he hasn't been lynched.

You attacked Arafax for voting you without an explanation and eventually voted for him. You voted me for attacking you. And most of the people you have been attacking are getting lynched as townie. So, my point still stands.

[Thok]

What is your point? Everyone who is lynched had the majority of the vote. I was not the only person contributing to either wagon. You haven't given a reason for singling me out (I suspect it's because I'm at -2).

Actually, IH was deadline lynched with the minimal possible necessary votes.

(And for what it's worth I said stuff about you because I was specifically asked my opinion of your wagon.)

So, you've given me the two obvious choices (claimed cop plus investigation target), one of whom you've voted repeatedly, and the other person you gave is the one of the few people today who has said "don't lynch Jack!". Again, this gives an example of how you're not really analyzing people and just calling people scum if they vote for you.

Jesus christ. You ask me for three pro town players and I give you a list of the three players I feel are most likely to be pro town. What did you want?

I asked what I wanted to see. I'm also giving my intepretation of your choices. I think I'm perfectly within my rights to be suspicious of you claiming that you believe C-Head is protown when your actions (repeatedly voting C-Head, and in fact voting him today) don't correspond with that claimed belief.

"Jack – 6 – VitaminR, HackerHuck, Save The Dragons, Cogito Ergo Sum, PBug, Canucklehead17 "

I have said c-head is probably town. I have said I think VitaminR is scum. I haven't called HH, STD, CES or PBug scum. Yet they are voting for me. Your argument is factually incorrect once again.

I said that your votes have mostly been of the form "attack people who vote you", not that you've attacked everybody who has voted you.

(Incidentally, you have voted CES and Nigthson (who PBug replaced) before.)

You seem to be following the classic scum strategy of accusing the people who were on townie wagons. In every game townies vote to lynch townies. Townies can get lynched without any of the mafia voting for them.

No, I'm accusing a person who I feel was part of the driving force that got IH/Arafax got lynched. If I just wanted to attack somebody who voted for multiple townies, I'd be voting Fritzler or TEOM.

In addition, you have seemed to have managed to get to lynch -2 without my help.

[Thok]

Actually Jack let's just look at your play today.

You start out by voting Canucklehead; as VitaminR explained, even if you had questions there was no reason to vote him until he had least tried to explained those answers. VitaminR votes you. Hackerhuck agrees and also votes you.

You proceed to vote VitaminR, claiming you "still find him scummy" (which is ironic given your earlier attack on Arafax for not explaining their votes). (I've seen your earlier comments about disliking VitaminR jumping off and on the IH wagon; even though he explained that he disliked the IH wagon and jumpeed on it because he didn't see better wagon. Your comments feel like scum trying to pressure VitaminR into voting IH.)

MOS FOSes you, and CES, STD, and PBug vote you with little comment. You proceed to ignore all four of these. Canuckle votes you, and you proceed to claim he's scum for blatant bandwagony (despite having just ignored the other equally clearly blatant bandwagon votes).

VitR prods me and then asks for my opinion of you; I give it and you proceed to attack me for my comments.
-----------------------------------

So let me ask this; why do you have no problems with CES, PBug's, STD, and HH's votes today, and MOS's FOS? (I'll even grant that it seems that you think VitR's vote on you today is a valid vote; you sem to find him scummy for other reasons). Moreover, this set of voters includes two of three unconfirmed people you think are most likely to be protown.

[Thok]

Ether, do you want to give your reasons for defending Jack? Otherwise, I don't think we're getting much else out of him.

[Thok]

Since this is the only post I feel I haven't replied to I will.

Again, this gives an example of how you're not really analyzing people and just calling people scum if they vote for you.

On IH:

If I said anything about Jack and this, it would only be because he had supported HackerHuck's idea.

For whoever it was that asked what the point behind the IH wagon was, this is it. I can't believe this kind of misrepresentation is unintentional. I never supported his idea in the slightest, I said I didn't see the point in pooky's thing because we could just vote for people and that Hacker's idea wasn't significantly different from pooky's and that neither were scummy because peoples suspicions are already out there.

Ether is the only one to provide ample reasoning of the wagon on me. = P I'd like an explanation from Jack and Zindaras, OTHER than "I agree with Ether LAWL"

Already given but I don't mind summing up. As scum you have to avoid being found out. You can and seem completely innocent but this is hard. You can lurk but this can bring negative attention. You can also try and confuse the town by going after a lot of people and keeping attention away from yourself. You consistently, and I believe deliberately, misread peoples posts to mean something suspicious. You say things like "this was a joke...or something more sinister" without any more explication. All the while you appear to be looking for scum like a good townie.

Didn't C-head investigate Jack and get guilty?

= / I'm confused.

haha, I call bs on this. Vote:IH

So, you've voted IH because he made two obvious mistakes. Both of which involved attacks on you. Great job!

On Arafax:

Jack uses too much WIFOM among other things - Vote Jack

Simply Jack, I found you scummy yesterday....Today someone else seemed more scummy at first, but I have changed my mind on that....Honestly, I won't pick out the specific posts, etc....It's in my notes and I find you play scummy.

STD - Care to explain your vote?

you do see the irony in asking STD to explain his vote while your given reason for voting me is "you seem scummy-nothing specific"

I'm thinking Arafax is scum based on a bandwagon vote which he can't give a reason for.

So first it was wifom which you've given up on, next it was that I was treating MoS differently which you've retracted, now it's my vote for c-head which you somehow managed to forget until reread despite the fact that quite a big deal was made out of it? I don't buy that one bit, you're just grasping at reasons for your bandwagon vote.

Is your point that you knew the vanilla townie role title was "Peasant"? It's in the OP, this signifies nothing, why would you try to use it as an argument?

You voted Arafax because he couldn't explain his vote on you. (Even though he did actually try to give an explanation about your C-Head vote and your use of WIFOM to deny that you've done anything.)

But perhaps my definition of analysis is wrong. Dictionaries often lie I've been told. Let's see what reasoning you've had for your votes.

as far as I can tell, Twito's decided not to put in any effort and is now leeching onto LuckayLuck.

unvote Hackerhuck, vote Twito

Hey look, it's an explanation of how we've caught the only scum lynched so far in the game.

Twito? He's um, dead. We lynched him day 1.

vote IH

Not a fan of MOS attack on LL. He hasn't been saying much.
...
I'll go with an unvote, vote MOS

Oh, the analysis!

You've snipped a lot of stuff I've said away (for example I made various comments about why I felt LL was town, or the stuff I posted in response to Ether. Or in fact, the stuff I've said today (although you would claim it's not "analysis").

So let's see:

I'd be happy with a Jack lynch at this point. He's been the second option for a while (when we know the first options-IH and Arafax) have been town.

Terrible and scummy reason. The first options were town so the 2nd must be scum! Or rather, he's more likely to be an easy lynch.

You've been allowed to live for several days? Why could that be? Oh wait, maybe because scum have chosen to not go after you and try to get you lynched. Now why would they do that? Could it possibly be because you are scum?

And it seems his only scum hunting technique right now is "Vote scummy looking people on my bandwagon and deny I've done anything";

Shown to be completely false, this shows that Thok didn't even bother rereading, which means he isn't actually thinking too hard about it, scumtell.

Um, read my comment again. You have been going after scummy looking people who have been voting you. You may have added some gussied up reason for your vote, but fundamentally that's all you've been doing. And you have been denying that anything you've done is scummy. Your main defense has been "Just because I vote Canucklehead, or helped to lynch IH and Arafax, or protected Twito, that doesn't mean I'm scum!"

Well guess what. Do scummy things enough times, and we'll believe that you are scum.

Best-wosrt case scenario he's a completely useless protown player.

scummy scummy scummy reason.

Because we're definately in the best-worst case scenario, right? There's absolutely no chance you could actually be scum, right?

[Thok]

In addition to what's been said, I can't see a Lost Prince having a page, or any servants at all.

vote MOS

[Thok]

I am here. I will try to post something more substanstial tonight/tomorrow, when I can actually pretend to have free time.

[Thok]

As far as I can tell, you're the only cleared person Pooky (by being Canuckle/BM investigated). Ether was jailed a few days ago, for what that's worth.

(This is not a real post by me-I'll try to fake free time tomorrow morning. Also, ala VLA, I won't be around much this weekend.)

[Thok]

BMQ?

[Thok]

I think Thok's voting pattern is pretty telling: distancing one day, avoiding townie lynches, jumped onto scum late.

I think this is a poor assessment of my play. I started the Twito wagon, was fairly aggressive in attacking Jack (one of the townie lynches that it was claimed I was avoinding.) You can legitimately criticie me for not speaking about the CES wagon (I would have gone against it, since as I mentioned earlier in the game CES's play had resemebled his typical protown play.) The only scum I "jumped on late" was MOS, who was cop investigated and had claimed things like miller.

I'd also argue that you've given a fairly good description of Ether's play; she got on Twito late, jumped away from the IH and Jack wagons (after pushing the Arafax wagon). I'm not sure why we aren't giving TS /Ether more scrutiny.

[Thok]

Roll eyes.

[Thok]

Your last post was 11 days ago. How is that roll eye worthy?

The fact that you chose to devote a post solely to prodding me is roll eyes worthy.

[Thok]

If you are trying to increase activity in the thread, then you also would have considered prodding

TSS (last post Sunday)
Sarcastro (last post Sunday)
HackerHuck (last post Sunday)

You also would have said things like "We need more activity in this thread", or given more reasons why you want to lynch whoever you want to lynch.
-------------------------
If you were trying to actually put pressure on me, you might do things like move a vote or FOS onto me, perhaps with some additional reasoning.
-------------------------
So, the roll eyes is really a "what the hell are you trying to accomplish with a mere prod/replacement request"?

[Thok]

I think people need to learn what "over-defensive" means. It means being excessively defensive, as opposed to "pointing out what others are doing".

Why would I say we needed more activity in the thread when what I wanted to do was get you posting.

Gee, then maybe you would have said "I'd like to see more posting from Thok", or asked me questions about what you'd like me to discuss. I don't read minds.

(Taking a quick look at HH's post)

Explain to me why HH's post is so bad. Even by standards of this game, Bogre was an excessive lurker. I could see that in the absence of any additional info, or if one felt that most of the other people in the game were protown, that you would be a better than average lynch for that reason alone.

[Thok]

My original post "Roll Eyes" was clearly not a massive rant. Nor was my second, one sentence reply.

As for my comment about HH's thing, did you miss the whole "Bogre was an excessive lurker even by standards of this game"? It's clear that HH's concern was not simply because of your behavior, but because Bogre has a grand total of 11 posts in the first 56 pages on this game. He's not said "I have no reason to think TSQ is scum", but rather "I have no ability to figure out what's going on with a massive question mark in the game".

Moreover, your response to HH is essentially a disguised "overdefensive" version of OMGUS.

[Thok]

Whatever.

Doing some rereading I'd prefer a Sarcastro lynch to a STD lynch, assuming that I was given only those two choices. Sarcastro has contributed little (except to say "let's lynch X or Y because I say they are scum"), PBug 's posts are weird, as are Nightson's. Both of the first two make comments about Ether that I want to think a bit about, given that I'm not fond of TS/Ether. (PBug appeals to Ether to get a vote on Jack, Nightson does an "Ether is tricksy" comment, which might be puffing up of her. Standard PBug is scummy in every game he play caveat applys to the first comment.)

From STD I get a "trying to figure out what's going on" vibe, as opposed to the "lets bandwagon for not particularly well explained mystical voodoo reasons" vibe I get from almost everybody else. I consider this a strong point in favor of him.

[Thok]

FoS: Thok

Advocating a Sarc lynch is an obvious scum ploy.

As if this thread didn't have enough mystical voodoo.

[Thok]

STD is appealing to emotion, puppies and fowl. Hey Sarc, why not switch your vote to STD?

If you won't, and you give me a GOOD reason not to switch to STD, I'll see if I could switch to HH myself.

The current STD-TS interaction

STD: TS, please explain your vote for me
TS: I just find you scummy
STD: Maybe you could explain your vote
TS: I don't remember, I only sort of found you scummy
STD: Um, OK
TS: Look! A nonexistent appeal to emotion! And scummy use of pop phrases! Kill STD!

vote Toaster Strudel

[Thok]

Your complete lack of an attempt to actually respond to the contents of my post is noted.

[Thok]

To metagame STD he is usually more astute and helpful. He just seems to be coasting along, dodging suspicions, deflecting suspicions on other people, just cruising the game. When I looked at the voting pattern, I saw instances of lazy voting, but I am myself too lazy at the moment to check back. You dismiss his appeal to emotion, but his mention of puppies dying etc. was not so much of an argument, as soap opera fluff.

Your future attempts to discredit me will be duly noted, haha. You are predictable.

Note the comment "pop phrases". His comment about puppies was not an "appeal to emotion" to get you to unvote him, but pointing that you weren't actually attempting to justify your vote on STD at all which is especially galling combined with your comment that "you didn't find him particularly scummy, just a bit more than usual".

The double standard of complaining that STD has been lazy while you can get yourself up and moving to actually explain or justify your vote is humorous.

Basically, you're attacking STD without giving him any actual arguments to defend himself against.

[Thok]

Your future attempts to discredit me will be duly noted, haha. You are predictable.

I'll also note the preemptive attempt to discredit me.

[Thok]

Are you honestly trying to claim that an obvious joke is an appeal to emotion? Five to ten days after the fact (depending on which post you want to pick)?

Does the content of STD's 1540 or 1549 actually change if he doesn't include those line, or replaces the line in 1540 with something like "This is not helpful"?

[Thok]

unvote

I could vote for Thok. He hasn't been pressured much, has he?

vote: Thok

I'm curious what TSQ will say about this vote.

[Thok]

I'm curious what TSQ will say about this vote.

Are you saying this because you want me to think you two are buddies? I don't think it'll work.

I'm saying this because I want to see how TSQ will react. Depending on his reaction, I can get some info out of his play.

[Thok]

Hey maybe you are scumbuddies with Thok after all. Why did Thok seek out YOUR opinion in particular?

I felt your vote on me (putting pressure on me sort of out of the blue) was like HH's plan for lynching TSQ. I wanted to see if TSQ's response to your proposal was consistent with his response to HH's proposal.

Basically, I was setting a test for TSQ. Look, his response is consistent.

[Thok]

Basically, I was setting a test for TSQ. Look, his response is consistent.

That doesn't say much about his alignment, does it? What kind of phony test is that?

Had he not been consistent, I would have gone after TSQ, as that would have been evidence that he was being insincere about his arguments against HH.

[Thok]

Had he not been consistent, I would have gone after TSQ.

ORLY? You would have gone after TSQ? He's verifiably fabricating evidence, why don't you go after him for that?

You're verifiably made a ridiculous argument about STD.

I'll also point out that when I attacked TSQ for his arguments on HH, you accused me of being scum with HH. When TSQ makes a similar vote for you, you declare me to be scum with TSQ. Change your story much?

[Thok]

Ugh with those night choices. Ugh with a 50% role.

A quick search of Ether's posts includes a claim that she thought Jack was a cop (around day 4) which would explains her targetting Jack (but why stop Night 4? Jack was still alive.)

Why do you no longer have the 50% doc? (Given your actions, you've implied it's gone away.)

[Thok]

I can't believe that TS was protown.

I'll be down for a mass-claim. Any thoughts on the lack of killage, or should we wait until the mass claim to discuss that?

[Thok]

Um, yeah.

Can we get a prod on TSS?

(Note: I appreciate the irony of me requesting a prod. But we need to start doing something today.)

[Thok]

Assuming two scum left, we need to be unanimous to lynch a scum. At least one of Hacker or Sarc should be scum, on account of Hacker not being quicklynched. I suspected Sarc when I thought TS was innocent, and Hacker when I suspected TS was scum; since TS was innocent,

vote: Sarcastro.

If he turns up scum, I would look at STD or TSQ next.

Would scum really quick-lynch with 2 scum and 7 alive? (With 3 scum sure, but then the game should be close to over.)

I suggest somebody starts rolling dice for a claim order. Normally I'd suggest a person who looks innocentish to make the order, but I don't think such a person exists.

[Thok]

We're going to need a prod/replacement on STD to keep things going.

I'll also claim now. I'm a Peasant. I'd prefer TSQ to go next.

[Thok]

TSQ-could you tell us precisely what your role name is?

[Thok]

We need STD to go (or his replacement; I've informed PJ by PM that STD needs to be prodded or replaced).

[Thok]

Sarcastro's role strikes me as too weird to be fake, and seems semiconsistent with what we've seen in the game.

vote the silent speaker

[Thok]

The Royal Family of Jellugi (

formally consisting of the King, Queen, Prince, and Princess

) have for many years been in power, through an unjust seizure of the throne. Their laws have been appalling, their use of power tyrannous. Taxes are inversely proportional with overall happiness: too high and too low, respectively.

Unless the mod is lying to us or left out one of the scum roles suggested by the flavor text, we still have at least two scum left (the Queen and the Princess).

If the lack of killing is the result of a power role, it has to come from TSQ, as no other power role has a claimed mechanic that could stop a night kill (unless something really weird is going on with Sarcastro's role or one of the townies). A deliberate no-kill seems unlikely, especially since we haven't had a kill either of the last two nights.

FOS TSS, Hackerhuck

. From my point of view, it's very likely that at least one and possibly both of you are scum.

[Thok]

I don't necessarily believe that "lack of nightkill" equals "doc protection", especially given the relatively weirdish roles we've seen. It's possible that some combination of TSQ/STD/VitR are a Tooth Fairy/Walrus type role, and that the mafia can only kill under certain arrangements of the exits being sealed or not. This is possible even if none of those three know how their role works.

I ought to go and check how the arrangement of gates connects to the presence or lack of people being killed.

[Thok]

I'm sort of tempted to just vote one of TSS or HackerHuck (probably TSS), since I don't believe either of the claimed power roles is lying about said role.

[Thok]

Short answer-I find it likely that both of you and HH are scum, but there are more people that you could reasonably be paired with than HH if I'm wrong about our power roles. (Which is really saying that a you-TSQ scum pair is more likely to me then an HH-TSQ scum pair; Sarcastro's interactions suggests he's not pair with either of you).

I also feel like you're trying harder to manipulate events than HH. I also noticed that VitR was suspicious of both of us when he was killed; for me, that suggests you could have killed him to keep him from participating.

[Thok]

I don't really see how there can only be one scum remaining. Ignore flavor and consider game balance: with only 1 scum remaining we would have 5 scum (two of whom were a spy and a traitor) in a 23 person game. I might believe that would happen in a purely vanilla game, but we've also had multiple power roles.

[Thok]

Huh? You really are trying a random vote? That seems like a horrible play right now.

[Thok]

No, it's not a random vote. It's a pure gut vote. I just don't like the feeling I'm getting from your posts, and it's really all I have to go on.

Except that you didn't have a problem with my posts (for the most part) until today, and you had been focusing on HH until recently.

[Thok]

So in other words, you're voting me in a potential lynch or lose situation, for a reason you can't explain, that only applies to today?

[Thok]

Where's TSS?

[Thok]

Why should I confess?

[Thok]

I confess to being handsome, clever, and protown.

[Thok]

Because this isn't a game of questions.

Do you have anything you actually want to say? Or are you just going to throw BS accusations at me?

[Thok]

However, Sarc-Thok is impossible, and Thok hasn't been quicklynched. Therefore Thok or Sarc is scum. Since both Thok and I think the power can be trusted, Sarc is not that scum. Therefore

vote: Thok

. From my standpoint it's him or Hacker or both.

That's a horrible reason to vote for me rather than Sarcastro. If I'm town, I could be (and it looks I am given the lack of quicklynches) wrong about the whether we can trust the power roles.

Unless scum is Sarcastro-TSS town is going to lose, so I need to assume that and

vote The Silent Speaker

. I feel good about this, given that Sarcastro started going after me when I mentioned that I was planning on voting TSS today.

[Thok]

I can not tell you how close I was to all out bussing thok once sarc placed that vote. PJ has just informed me that thok was very strongly considering bussing me, because he didn't know I had control of the drawbridge, and hence thought it was a terrible claim. We're both lucky that neither of us actually did it.

Once STD didn't counterclaim you, I was less inclined to bus you. I wouldn't have had a problem with you outright bussing me after Sarcastro voted me.

@Sarcastro-whatever. You didn't actually have a reason for voting me. (The only reason I can deduce is that you thought that I knew the set up and TSS didn't. Except that there was no viable reason not to believe that two scum were still alive from the flavor.) I'll give you credit for realizing my partner was TSQ and not HH, but without any actual arguments you weren't likely to persuade HH to change his mind.

Frankly, I should have been lynched immediately once TS came up town. If anybody had bothered to look at the Pooky-led wagon on me, you'd have noticed that all of the relevant players were both town and dead.

If anything scum could have won this game sooner if we had nightkilled better. If we didn't delay killing BM one night to take out VitR (who I knew was a Watchman, but who'd guess Watchman=Tooth Fairy Mason and not Watcher), then we wouldn't have lost MOS and we'd actually would have been able to night kill in the later part of the game. If we kill BM-Pooky-VitR instead of VitR-BM-Pooky, we don't lose either of Fritzler or MOS and waltz to victory.

[Thok]

@Sarcastro-fair enough. Good game

@HH-to be fair we never had time to kill you. You'll notice that after Night 0 all of our night kills were either power roles, or cop investigated innocents, or both. The only time we might have even considered you as a kill was as an alternative to Zindaras night 3, and by that time we already knew you were a Peasant.

Fun with mafia bloopers

I've already mentioned the whole thinking "Watchman"=Watcher thing. The loss of the Jester/Spy has already been discussed.

There was a period of time where I thought Bogre might have had a lover with vig abilities. (This isn't as ridiculous as it sounds: the two nightkills we had nothing to deal with were LL and Occult, who both had gone after Bogre without much support from others.)

I spent a nontrivial amount of time considering the existance of a 3rd traitor role, mainly for balance reasons. Given Sarcastro's role name, he was a likely choice for this role, if it existed. Indeed, I spent some time saying to PJ about how much I'd be annoyed with Sarcastro if he was a Traitor.