Kingmaker II-Game Over

[MrBuddyLee]

Thok lol!

I think ubertimmy, ChannelDelibird and pablito are scum based on what I've read so far. I also think the new Kingmaker was NOT in game one!

PJ, fire away, we need a list of questions for everyone by afternoon tea.

[MrBuddyLee]

Pretty sure the Kingmaker, knowing any sane Kingmaker from game 1 would have crowned Glorkus Rex, has deviously led scum astray by making an absurb choice for king that will result in an increase in both Tylenol and dictionary sales in Q3.

Still thinking pablito, ubertimmy and CDB are scum. Yos, whaddaya think?

[MrBuddyLee]

Dear Glork and PJ,

Why are you "worried" about protecting the Kingmaker at this point? They're a vanilla townie who passes the role of Kingmaker on to another vanilla townie upon their death. What makes the vanilla townie who selected PJ as king any more worth saving from nightkill than the next vanilla townie down the line? PARTICULARLY this early in the game... Your tears for the lurking Kingmaker taste crocodile-flavored to me and thus your accusations reek of an attempt to cast wrongful aspersions upon a player with a better-than-average record of hunting scum.

Dear PJ,

Why are you "outing" a strategy of mine which has proven helpful in nailing scum but which doesn't really work once it's broadcast to the members of a game?

Dear cbox,

MrBuddyLee has been

voting for a lot of people with little or no reasoning

. In the same vein,

he has only asked for other people’s opinions

(both yos’s and everyone’s in general) rather than expressing his own.

This would also make sense if mrbuddylee, pablito, and glork were all mafia

, because

MBL also defended glork in a post.

1) I haven't voted for anyone yet, so why do you not only say I have, but insinuate my reasons for the votes I haven't cast are suspect? Town is accurate with their statements because they don't want to lead people astray in the hunt for scum. Your inaccurate statement is a significant scumtell.
2) You state I defended Glork in a post, which I haven't either. The closest I came to "defending" Glork was making a tongue-in-cheek comment about his performance last game, which implies nothing whatsoever about his alignment in this game. Your misrepresentation of my actions, AGAIN, is easily viewed as an attempt to lead town astray and away from appropriate lynch targets.
3) You state that I've only asked for other people's opinions instead of expressing my own. This is a blatant lie. In my two posts thus far I've made four observations, three of which are distinct. I've asked Yos for his opinions on an issue, and asked PJ half-jokingly to come up with a list of questions for all 24 players of the game. You say I've expressed no opinions, I've given three (five if you count each allegation of scumminess {CDB, timmy, pab} separately). You say I've only asked for others' opinions, I've only done that once. The factual planets are aligned 5-1 against your lying, scummy observation.
4) You posit that three players, {MBL, Glork, pablito} are scum together, which is akin to the primary observation I made in the two posts you found scummy. And your logic tying the three together is faulty or nonexistent. I didn't defend Glork, and you give no reason whatsoever for plopping pablito into your hypothetical Axis of Ebil. You imply "(your first 3 accusations) would make sense if {a,b,c} are scum together", but your conclusion in no way whatsoever logically follows from your reasons.

It's amazing that you managed to stuff so many false/illogical statements into your little bitty 58-word shepherd's pie of an accusation against me there. NOW is when I'll ask the entire town for their opinions for the first time.

What does everyone think of the bearer of such a gross bill of false goods? Simply careless as hell, or scum hunting baby bunnies with a shotgun?

vote: cardb0ardb0x

[MrBuddyLee]

er...

ShadowLurker has similarly been voting with little to no explanation, but I just kind of want to bring it up, it’s not that big an issue...
I’m not giving him a vote, though.

Why not? It's not like a vote is particularly dangerous in this game, and at least your observations on him are accurate, unlike your observations of me... the dissonance reeks of either protection of a scumpartner or of fake protection in an attempt to incriminate town, and giuven the thoroughness of your logic thus far I'd easier suspect the former.

So, overall, I would suggest executing pablito, and if he is confirmed scum (is their role revealed when they are killed?) i guess glork would be next. Obviously I'm not completely sure about any of them.

Why would you suggest executing pablito when a) the game's nascent and b) you're not really sure? And why would you attempt to set up a 1-2 pablito-Glork punch so blatantly, knowing full well that pab could be scum cozying up to town to make them look bad?

[MrBuddyLee]

Wait, how did eleventy people post in the last three hours without referring to mr. box's box o' lies? That's physically unlikely and morally untenable!

I suppose one logical explanation is that the morning crew of chimps doesn't read.

[MrBuddyLee]

I agree with some of cardb0ardb0x's statements, but the whole tone of that post is assuming that immediate action needs to be taken. I can forgive that mistake from a newbie, nonetheless someone like MBL shouldn't have.

MBL's comments on cardb0ardb0x just make me feel awkward.

Can you please explain why my points against box make you feel awkward? At least one other person found them well-founded.

[MrBuddyLee]

box, this game is about explaining every little thing
particularly when pj is king
for you to fade to black makes scumdar go ding ding
i recommend you buck up and sing
the names of your scumpartners so their necks we may wring

[MrBuddyLee]

examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious.

Awwww, you're so SWEET!

Seriously, though, only Fritzler gets to lynch people around here cause they're obnoxious. People who push for lynches of the "obnoxious" regardless of contribution to the cause are more likely scum.

Sorry if it feels like you're being ganged up on, but your behavior is not pro-town so far. Maybe try changing that instead of surrendering. Give it the old college try.

So who're your scumpartners?

[MrBuddyLee]

It's actually kinda nice knowing the strategies scum will probably try in this game, because I already spent last game trying to think of them. It's pretty interesting being on the other side of the fence this time, I will be curious to see the strategies scum try to use after the game is over.

Good stuff. I 95% believe your sincerity in making that statement. I 5% think you should be strapped to a lightning rod and tasered for trying to subtly brainwash us into thinking you're town.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, I was trying to say I believed PJ's sincerity. I'm guessing he's town. Interesting follow-up attacks off my comments.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Glork

for clowning when there's so much to analyze.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sequence of events:

1) I post a pretty reasonable attack on cbox. Like eleventy billion lines of juicy text to analyze.

2) cbox posts a lot of content in response, including a fair amount of boo-hoo.

3) Three people vote me in the following 24 hrs with

nary a word

about my attack or their opinion of cbox.

Pathetic. This is a mountainous game guys. Your vote means very little, especially seeing as how you can sprinkle a dozen of them like apple seeds across the countryside.

[MrBuddyLee]

So, pablito, if your vote on me is justified, what do you think of the ones placed with no justification whatsoever?

[MrBuddyLee]

cbox, here's the thing. I don't know your alignment. I'm attacking you because I want to try to discern your alignment. You should see that as a positive development. It's not a rivalry in the least... and if anything I say seems unfair or disproportionate you should point it out in an attempt to discern MY alignment.

There's not really any such thing as a bandwagon in this game either. The King gets to look at the "wagon" on you and decide if it's meritworthy or not. I suspect he'll look more at your words and arguments against you than at the number of votes against you. And if the king makes a bad judgment and chooses to execute you unfairly, as you say that'll provide info not only on the King but also on the people who voted you.

And I didn't really quote you out of context. You called me annoying, which was the most interesting part of both the snippet and the greater quote. I hope in time you'll see a grilling as less annoying and more part of the mafia process.

[MrBuddyLee]

Vaughn's failure to lurk is a stark difference from last game. He's prolly town.

[MrBuddyLee]

*takes a wrench to MoS's sarcasm-detector*

[MrBuddyLee]

Although, i still think we need to combine our efforts and concentrate on 3-5 people....

Isn't it a tad early for that?

I still feel like mrbuddylee's attacks on me were a little too vehement and opportunistic. he discovered factual errors and poor logic in my posting, which i suppose would, in the eyes of mafia, make me a really easy lynch.

Apologies. I'll be sure to let your factual errors and logic slide next time.

[MrBuddyLee]

Pablito is definitely scum. Who else sees the slightest bit of difference between an FOS and a vote in THIS game? Only jumpy scum.

For the record, I'm thrilled with MoS's policy of not voting. No problem with it whatsoever.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Rosso.

I doubt scum would act that retarded, so he's probably town. This is a "get your shit together, man" vote.

[MrBuddyLee]

2.) Since it's pretty clear I'm not the Kingmaker, I think I will advocate a Glork-King tomorrow, although I think I would personally prefer a Thok-King (simply because Thok almost seems to be matching my brainwaves this game), both strong players (who are attentive to the game), and who I am currently thinking are likely to be town.

This rubbed me the wrong way, tiger. If we have an impressionable Kingmaker, they'll likely heed your will. Hypothetically, scum can easily kill the one of those two that's town, leaving us with a scum king tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

Scum are 67% more likely to apologize for their inactivity.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote everyone, vote: Channel Delibird

I don't get an ounce of scumminess from bird/Phoebus's posts yet, just laziness and weirdness. I don't groove on some of the suspicions CDB expresses, and I'll go into detail on those in another post soon. I also want to evaluate pabs because he's said some weird shit.

I think even though we've got a LOE we should still all keep commenting on people off the list. I'll do a full reread and post tonight if possible.

[MrBuddyLee]

Giving up does not help your case, and if you are a townie then it doesn’t help the town win.

Sounds awkward.

apart from the me voting MoS bit, which I am not and don’t feel is necessary yet. If MoS continues to refuse to vote, that opinion will change.

Earlier in this post you said why not vote two people since we can, implying looser voting standards in this game. It's odd that you'd then hold back on an MoS vote here.

I hadn’t thought of doing that in a scum-king situation, but I’m glad you did.

Sounds awkward.

FoS: Petroleumjelly No need to keep letting us know. It sounds like you’re anxious.

Sounds awkward.

Wanted an LOE early.

It just looks like he’s trying to fall into line with everyone else (blending in, as I’m sure you know, helps scum).

Sounds awkward.

So yeah, not a huge case against CDB, it's more the awkward nature of his words that makes me suspect he's scum trying to pro-town. But not all that much, actually, so I'm going to look at other suspects.

[MrBuddyLee]

he's scum trying to pro-town.

Sounds awkward.

Fucker.

[MrBuddyLee]

Add to the List of Execution: Bird1111, Phoebus, ChannelDelibird, Pablito

.

[MrBuddyLee]

People acting weird:

pablito
MoS
Phoebus

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork, Mert?

[MrBuddyLee]

Rosso, Twomz, CTD.

There's definitely 75% more scum in thar than in your average batch of bad apples.

I'd go with Twomz personally cause he was full of excuses yet never found the time to get er done. CTD isn't his normal useful self which is significant. And Rosso's uselessness is a slightly scummier flavor than usual due to extreme chirpiness.

There are other people who are scummy as well by inactivity but I'd give em a day to snap out of it. Rikimaru and Pooky, to call out two. Town's made it easy for a scum king to execute whoever the fuck he wants today without looking bad. Nice work, lazy bastards.

[MrBuddyLee]

You commented on 16 players but not on Mert, Glork. Since he's said a few notable things, I figured maybe you could give us your opinion on him.

[MrBuddyLee]

You commented on 16 players but not on Mert, Glork. Since he's said a few notable things, I figured maybe you could give us your opinion on him.

Do you even read this fucking game? Do you remember a few pages back when I questioned Mert and asked him to thoroughly explain the reasons for his votes? Did you read his extensive responses?




Why, oh why do you insist on being an absolute

idiot

, MBL?

Glork, you asking Mert about his vote does not equal you telling us your opinion on Mert.

Ergo, if there's an idiot, it's you. lrn2read.

Your failure to include him on your review of 16 players is noted. Particularly considering you pretended to grill him on his votes.

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, your attempts to link me to Mert specifically have also been noted. If I made comments on 16 other people, then there are 7 people that I did not make comments towards. You might want to note my failure to include them in my "review" as well.

::LAMEPOSTING::

[MrBuddyLee]

This king sucks. Terrible judgment.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey, here's a theory.

Bird's scumpartners kicked him in the nuts overnight and told him to start posting so he didn't screw them over.

Anyone else got a better theory for why an indifferent player suddenly puts together a lengthy analysis?

[MrBuddyLee]

lol right after the nutkicking post. Let's have that discussion over again, NOT.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote ubertimmy, Fritzler, whoever else is lurking

It's a mountainous game. We need words, not just votes.

Also, imagine the dilemma that a PJ Scumking faces. He loves being town, he loves finding scum, and yet he is scum and the sole burden of executing falls upon him. He will probably not execute scum unless it's the obvious choice, and there was no obvious choice day one. He's embarrassed to have to appear to be a crappy king--before the game he probably dreamed of matching or exceeding Glork's performance as king in the first game.

So how does a PJ Scumking respond to that situation? I think he puts the job of hunting scum off as long as possible and doesn't do his usual thorough job. He puts a scum in his list of suspicion as a distancing tactic in case he's caught later. But ultimately he lynches the scummiest town he can reasonably execute, his argument for the execution is wishy-washy accompanied by much angst because he wants everyone to know he tried him best and it's not really his fault if he doesn't hit scum.

So now the question is, does this describe PJ's behavior day one. I'll reread to check, but I wanted to post these thoughts while they were fresh in my head. I think they're an accurate estimation of how PJ would deal with being a scumking.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL is on my list for question-evasion and pseudo-defenses of his theory without explaining what he thought was actually going on.

This is horseshit. I answered everything asked thoroughly and in a more-than-timely fashion.

Even more alarming to me was the fact that he presented the theory, defended its plausability, and said he was hoveing around 60% sure that Bird was a "nut-kicked" scumbag, but

never actually put a vote on Bird.

The siresns are so loud and ringing, I can hear them in my sleep. Even *NOW* after checking in, MBL votes for Timmy, Fritzler, and "everybody who is lurking" but still hasn't voiced his official support for a Birdlynch. Does

ANYBODY

else see this as more-than-slightly-odd?

This is stupid. I made it eminently clear that I think Bird is a very likely scumbag. Votes barely matter in this game compared to words, and I'm about as far on the record in support of a bird execution as one can be.

You're reaching, Glork. It smells foul. If you have sirens going off in your head, it's more likely that you need to replace the battery.

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork, I have a little more respect for the average scummer than you apparently. I was a little more concerned with the contents of my posts indicting bird than I was in covering my ass with a vote. This is why I also support MoS's decision not to vote in this game: if people, particularly kings, are too lazy to read posts and instead rely on vote counts, they deserve to lose.

As for the bandwagon issue, I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that a series of valueless, unsupported votes gives a king any more legitimate reason to execute in this game, which is all that matters. If he executes for an illegitimate reason, then he's probably scum. So "bandwagoning" isn't the least bit dangerous. Unsupported voting, however, is, because it leaves room for fudging reasons later.

Glork off to a terrible start as king today, and the question is... why?

[MrBuddyLee]

votes -- even in this game -- are an indication of the officialness of one's suspicions. Inconsistencies between one's voting record and one's additional attacks, debates, questions, or stances can be important scumtells.

So, for the record, you think I may have been trying to obfuscate my position on bird. That blows my mind. I wouldn't think in a million years anyone could find my comments anything but clearly accusatory. I think your judgment is exquisitely poor if you actually think that, and since I know in general your judgment is not that poor, I suspect foul motives.

[MrBuddyLee]

So... yes, I do think that your posts could have been proposing a theory, letting others take off with it, then backing down as non-accusatory. I certainly thought that they were accusatory -- but your lack of a vote worried me, since it left me thinking, "Man, it seems like he's going to back down from this once it gets moving and claim that he didn't actually believe it, or that he was joking."

Sadly, it'll be impossible to prove this, but I think all my followup posts on the bird issue were pretty clear about the strength of my opinion. The original one was the only one that lacked conviction and purely posited a theory, from what I recall.

[MrBuddyLee]

I think Glork and PJ are probably both scum. It feels like Glork's going through the motions today, and PJ isn't on to it, which is very un-PJ. I also think pablito's acting way more quirky than any townie has a reason to behave--I smell some kind of cooked-up nonsense there.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm just not feeling the usual aggressive pro-town curiosity from PJ and Glork. It's going to tick them off that I'm saying that, but I have to state what I note. It's not that they're not participating, I just don't feel the usual force and seeking behind their words.

LuckayLuck, your suspicions seem to align with posting style and public opinion to a great extent. The people who post with a more analytical, expository style get a pro-town vote from you. And to some extent it feels like your suspicions "go with the flow" which could be seen as scum trying to appease town by agreeing with as many of them as possible. I'd like to see more specific analysis from you on relationships between people, for example, between Pablito and Glork or between Glork and bird.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sure thing. One definition would be, "When someone as high profile and controversial as pablito makes a 300 line long analysis post, you don't skim over it only to agree with a one-liner comment he makes about people not doing homework in his subsequent post."

Another definition would be:

PJ, on the other hand, never lets go. And he usually gets going right off the bat.

I realize the crashes have affected game interest and pacing, but I'm still feeling a selective avoidance from you and PJ.

I'll go back and reread your reigns from KM1, but offhand I recall you being a less...

benevolent

king.

[MrBuddyLee]

[*]MrBuddyLee: my read is that he is a strong insightful player, I am leaning strongly townie.

MBL is reading "slightly townie" upon my read

I don't see that anything's happened in the interim other than Glork put me on his execution list. What's with the significant change of opinion, Luckay? This could be another example of what I pointed out, you trying to go with the flow so as to not piss off the King or other influential players.

[MrBuddyLee]

PJ:

1.) I am feeling better about Glork after reading through his interaction with Mert and after rereading his posts from an attempted more objective point of view. I will admit I have fantasized about executing him today and watching him come up scum (I think that would be ironically apropos), but I haven't managed to convince myself he's scum. ><

2.) Since it's pretty clear I'm not the Kingmaker, I think I will advocate a Glork-King tomorrow, although I think I would personally prefer a Thok-King (simply because Thok almost seems to be matching my brainwaves this game), both strong players (who are attentive to the game), and who I am currently thinking are likely to be town.

Why advocate a Glork king even though a) you would prefer a Thok-king and b) "haven't managed to convince myself he's scum" is hardly a ringing endorsement.

My current suspicions are primarily Bird1111 (which began for very weak reasons, but there has been absolutely no content from Bird which leads me to want to change my opinion on him) and Phoebus (for his voting record on the largest bandwagons on the basis of 'gut', which I simply have a hard time 'digesting')

This suspicion of bird looks somewhat like you are warning a scumpartner that they're not contributing and you'd be forced to vote for them if they didn't *nudge nudge* give us some content. You even make sure to say your suspicions of him are for weak reasons, laying the groundwork for moving off him if he posts content.

As recently as two days before deadline, you said:

I still have not found anybody I would actually be willing to execute other than Bird1111 and Phoebus.

Then the deadline's bumped 2 or 3 days and immediately pablito and Glork comment on Rosso being scummy for lurkish and unusual behavior. No one else has mentioned Rosso in five or so pages. But suddenly the King's last minute execution list reads:

People I Strongly Consider for Execution
Phoebus
Bird1111
Rosso Carne

And then PJ picks bird to elaborate upon, and does so in a way that appears to lay the groundwork for him to take bird off the table. He says people don't see merit in the bird case, says bird's more a lurker than anything, and asks the mod for a potential replacement.

I also think I should detail my thoughts on Bird1111 a little bit more, since people either seem to not get my case or do not feel it has much merit...

With no elaboration on the Rosso thing whatsoever. He's basically letting Glork and Pablito speak for him. Which is odd.

I have a hard time reading lurkers, so if worse comes to worse, I have no problem in having them replaced, or culling them off. Lurkers who I also consider to be scummy (and by way of lurking have avoided recent detection) only strengthens my general policy.

Mod, if I do not execute Bird1111 today, can he be replaced by somebody more active?

This reads somewhat like clumsy avoidance of an execution of your lurky scumpartner.

I'm the only one to comment on Rosso for a bit after that, saying he's an OK lynch but not a great one, and then pablito chimes in to note PJ's sudden inclusion of Rosso. Pablito says he'll approach the impending execution possibilities assuming they will be pro-town, which is curious.

He takes bird off PJ's list for him:

My guess is that bird1111 is highest on PJ's list but the fact that bird1111 has been an extreme non-poster in this game is making PJ reconsider it slightly. I mean, bird1111 has barely even bothered to defend himself. I wonder if a replacement on bird1111 will make us suspect the replacement less or even more and whether that's the path that we want to take. Also, is there enough compelling evidence alone by bird's lurking actions to find him as our best option as scum?

And doesn't comment on what the impact of a pro-town bird execution would be like.

He signs on to a Rosso lynch:

I'm intrigued by PJ's extremely sudden inclusion of Rosso. I like it, but I have to wonder what the thought process for PJ was.

and then theorizes about what a pro-town Rosso lynch would result in:

The only people who have voiced concerns on Rosso are Glork and me. And both of us are fairly visible enough that a Rosso execution (which turns up with Rosso as town) won't necessarily change people's minds on us.

Then theorizes about a pro-town Phoebus execution and even says it's likely he'll turn up town but would yield ok stuff:

the wagon on him and the deduction used is so pallid that a Phoebus execution is probably going to end with a town death. Nonethless, knowing his confirmation for sure can give us some insight into others in this game.

Note again for emphasis,

pablito left out the possibility that bird would turn up town upon execution, despite saying he'd analyze all three potential targets that way.

The obvious theory being that pablito knows bird's not gonna turn up pro-town.

At deadline

, PJ fishes for support of a Phoebus lynch and begs for help:

Any input right now would be appreciated.

He gets none, then explains his odd last-minute Rosso campaign. Pablito gives the thumbs-up on Rosso.

Now this is huge: Glork posts FIVE TIMES in the two hours between PJ begging for help and PJ's execution of Rosso. And basically goofs off, gives PJ no clear advice whatsoever.

This is very un-Glork, if you ask me.

Thok, pablito and MoS weigh in--Thok helps take Phoebus off PJ's list, pablito encourages a Rosso execution, and MoS doesn't give an opinion.

PJ executes Rosso, who only Glork and pablito had found scummy enough to vote for. Rosso, who had found PJ and Glork scummy. Nine people had more votes on them than Rosso, including both bird and Phoebus, and PJ dodged a bird execution with moral support from pablito. Pablito, who had the most votes on him (9) yet never made PJ's list of execution.

Start of next day Glork votes pablito, MBL, Pooky, leaving off

* Phoebus, who he'd found scummy the previous day
* bird who contributed nada D1, and
* ChannelDelibird, whose execution Glork specifically said he supported at the end of D1.

I need to reread this massive mess of a post to try and draw some conclusions from it. I see protection of bird by PJ and pablito, collaboration between PJ, pablito and Glork, lack of scumhunting and extreme spectating down the stretch by Glork. I think I see pablito knowing more than he should, and accidentally indicating that to us. And PJ pushing a Glork kingship D2 despite finding

Thok

to be a better candidate for kingship.

[MrBuddyLee]

Clearly, the big associations are between pablito and PJ. I think pablito looks scummiest based on that summary I just posted, with PJ a close second. And I do think it's odd that with PJ clearly dithering between Phoebus and Rosso, you chose to let him dangle in those final few hours. I noted that you posted an analysis a bit earlier, but I still find your lurking presence and failure to comment on the specific issues raised in those last few hours odd.

I'll get into more detail in a bit on your question. And I think I was recently killed in a Mountainous as town--Back to the Basics.

[MrBuddyLee]

I made that long post because the way yesterday's lynch went down didn't feel right to me, pablito's been downright bizarre, and it feels like Glork's throwing darts at a board as king today. I started by going back over PJ's posts from the end of D1 and more info kept turning up that appeared relevant. I'm not sure all three are scum or are connected. I just want to spit thoughts out in case over time they congeal into a big picture. Some of this evidence, for example, jives with the "bird's scumpartners kicked him in the nuts overnight" theory, because PJ and pablito were the primary nutkickers of bird end of yesterday.

Also, forgot to mention this last night. I believe Fuldu theorized in game one that scum are more likely to refer to the scum team in a flavorfully correct way. Glork is the only person I've seen refer to scum as "assasins" during my rereads. There may be others who have, but I noted that Glork did for certain, and the ghost of Fuldu says take note.

[MrBuddyLee]

PJ didn't have a choice about his kingship, and in fact, didn't approach it with his usual vigor. Glork explicitly stated that he wished he HADN'T been chosen king, so he's not willingly in the spotlight. And you--if you're scum you clearly made a choice at the start of the game to WIFOM this exact topic, which means you'd push this exact argument sooner or later. "I'm high profile, which scum wouldn't be."

There's no cop to fear, so high profile is not a terrible thing. Clearly it worked to your advantage last night, as you got the execution you and only you lobbied for.

[MrBuddyLee]

I find it interesting that in that game, MBL considers me very clever, whereas all of his arguments in this game basically rely on me being incredibly dumb scum. MBL, could you please clear this up for me?

Kingmaker's a very different game, in that the King bears the sole burden of choosing he execution. I'd expect PJscum in a random game to manipulate players into voting for town. I'd expect King PJ to be consternated because ultimately HE will be the one to have to look bad by executing town. I think that disconnect between his desire to maintain his excellent scumhunting reputation and his need to execute a townie would manifest in various ways, including intentional errors of omission and selective choices of who to press on what issues. I've said this town made it easy D1 for PJ to execute just about whoever he wanted to, so I don't place the burden of the oddness of the D1 lynch on PJ by any means. I also don't think he's being "dumb", I just think he's acting a little differently than I'd expect PJ to act.

I don't even understand your attack on Glork in that post. What was he supposed to do?

I'd expect Glork to offer you specific advice on which one of the three of your LOE to execute, like pablito did. Instead, he brought popcorn, was clearly there and very interested, and didn't give you the "HAMMER, HAMMER!" schtick that he so often does.

I thought the wording of your king advocations was odd, and I remarked upon it. You "personally preferred" Thok but you "advocated" Glork.

MBL claimed that the only reason a player would suddenly become interested in a game, after doing nothing beforehand, would be if his scumbuddies "kicked him in the nuts"

Not "only". I never said that. But it's a major reason why a player could suddenly start posting at the start of D2.

Fuldu's observation/conclusion was erroneous. The fact that you're even attempting to use it as evidence here is just another red flag in my book. You've just jumped to the top of my list, buddy. Congratulations.

Fuldu was town. His observation was valid and even made sense. Just because it didn't hold there doesn't mean it can't be a general scumtell that scum is more likely to know their rolename and use it. It's a valid point to raise, and you've come up with a reasonable defense.

I think MBL is town and wrong

In that long post, everything's wrong? I think a lot of it is compelling, particularly the part where pablito says he's going to evaluate three people as if their execution would be a pro-town execution and then doesn't do so for bird. That looks like a slip.

(MBL's) points that I feel are weak and/or flawed (the two biggest in my mind are his attempts to connect me to Mert and his most recent insinuation that Fuldu's "scum are likely to use flavor" theory held/holds true

I like to post when I spot something, even if it's not going to 100% prove anything. A lot of little things add up sometimes, and the truth or fallacy of each individual point gets proven over time. I think it's a more pro-town way to play than biting my tongue when I see something because I'm afraid if it doesn't prove 100% convincing it'll earn me votes.

I start to get the distinct feeling that MBL is searching for excuses to attack me.

And bird. And PJ. And pablito. And LuckayLuck. And cbox. And the lurkers who haven't given us anything to analyze. It's not "searching for excuses to attack, it's making valid observations that can be discussed. Stifling discussion? Interesting approach for a king to take in a Mountainous game.

I don't see his(MBL's) attacks on myself having any merit (and as I shoot them down, he keeps dropping the subject and finding some *other* excuse to go after me

If we got into a back-and-forth on the minutiae of every point we raise, we'd bog down and dominate the thread. I come back to the stronger points that need clarification, and I let the lesser ones die. I think it's healthy.

I feel that MBL's case on Glork not airing his views directly before the execution doesn't make sense since there were many other people who didn't do so.

Glork was there watching the thread and posting. Three or four other people were as well. Thok gave advice on who to lynch, and Thok turned up protown. pablito did. MoS didn't. I see giving PJ advice in that situation as the townish thing to do.

Mastermind of Sin: He is NEVER the right execution. Keep him around.

Hmm. This is wrong on so many levels.

I need to reread his posts more closely, but I find Pooky's play pro-town thus far. It's odd that he tops Glork's list with me.

It's time to drag the lurkers out from under their rocks. This is, after all, a Mountainous game.

Finally, to anyone who thinks I'm trying to irrevocably link Glork, PJ and pablito, you're wrong. I can't make sense of it yet because there are some things about it which don't fit the story. I'm uncertain about their alignments and I'm posting my observations and thoughts. I think it's entirely possible that any one, or even all three, could be town. But there's definitely been weirdness and discussing things that don't make sense is how we find scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

While I think Thok is never a bad pick for scum to execute N1, I'll note that the longer Glork, PJ and Pooky are left around the closer they should be watched. Glork in particular is a prime N1 scum target. Particularly in a game where it'd make sense to off someone who'd make an excellent pro-town king.

Scum could be playing WIFOM games. They could lynch ubertimmy tomorrow to make us wonder why the good scumhunters aren't being lynched. But if I die tonight or soon, keep in mind that the longer the "good" players, the ones who'd make good kings, remain alive, the more closely they should be watched.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'll fully answer your post later, but your attempt to play me against MoS is noted when I wasn't criticizing him at all. I pointed out he did the same thing as Glork did end of D1. I did that to be fair, not to say that I specifically found MoS scummy. I honestly haven't reread MoS lately to know. I am currently pressing Glork because a series of things don't seem quite right about his play.

Why didn't you accuse me of defending MoS when I approved of his decision not to vote? I smell a selective rat. And my comment about Luckay's quote regarding MoS is simply to point out that it was a bizarre statement, considering that MoS is scum at least 30% of the time. Clearly, SOMETIMES MoS is the right lynch, so it's mindboggling that Luckay would say he's NEVER the right lynch. (Emphasis his.)

Meh, maybe I'll answer a few more, since your post kind of irritated me. As I posted Fuldu's theory, I actually didn't go back to see how it played out, I just remembered that I found it a reasonable theory when I joined that game and read his posts. And I was n_lich, so I found Fuldu's point reasonable even though it wasn't accurate in my case. n_lich was confirmed town pretty early in that game, and I'll have to reread to see if your recollection is accurate that you encouraged your scumpartners to push that line of reasoning.

Rest assured, I find it entirely logical that scum would be MORE likely to know they are assassins than town. The reason it came to mind is because while rereading Glork's posts I saw the word 'assassins' come up, and the fact that scum were assassins had COMPLETELY left my mind at that point. Which reminded me of Fuldu's comment, so I reinvoked it.

If Glork is not CONVINCED that somebody is scum, WHY would he insist on 'hammering' anybody!?

lol. He does it all the time. More specifically, I meant that he's very opinionated, and when he DOESN'T try to help drive things it's odd. Not that he was supposed to act berzerk. I just saw that he was present and not helping PJ make a final decision. It could be nothing, it could be scum not wanting to be seen helping their scumpartner, it could be scum happy with the direction the lynch is headed and deciding to lay low and eat popcorn while a pro-town king languishes. I dunno yet, obviously.

You did an OK job as king D1 but it wasn't the day a lot of us expected. You didn't browbeat scum and lurkers and drag things out into the open. I know you were very busy in real life, but I have to be honest, D1 was not vintage PJ. If you're trying a different strategy, that's fine, noted. But you knew it was significantly your job to get info to make your decision and you didn't get that info. And town got lynched.

And yes, I consider many players good players, MoS, CTD, Yos amongst them. Scum can't kill all the good ones N1, so obviously your presence amongst the living right now is not a scumtell. But YOU got kinged, Glork got kinged, and Pooky is an award-winner. I chose to name you three because you're high profile and die often and early as far as I know. I'd think scum would have feared a Glorking D2 and significantly considered offing him.

[MrBuddyLee]

Note, I disagree with you that the King bears the sole burden of a missed execution

Funny, I don't remember saying that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ugh. Glork, if you execute me this hastily, I'm going to hit you over the head with a frying pan.

Can everyone please pipe up with how you will view Glork if he executes each one of the people on his list? If you DON'T do this, I request that everyone view you as scum tomorrow for avoiding weighing in.

I am town. I'm attacking the King vigorously, which is clearly the easiest way to get executed in this game. I know that if I get executed and am scum, all my king attacks will have been in vain, or rather will have the opposite effect of reinforcing the King's status. This is not a gambit, hoping I'll luck out and be left alive and my scumteam can continue to chip away at pro-town Glork's credibility. I'm town attacking Glork and others because I find them scummy. Read my posts for sincerity and decide for yourself, and let the King know how you feel. I think I have brought up good point after good point that can be used now and in the future to find scum.

Glork, I find it beyond ironic that after the last vote count, in which I had zero votes on me, the next post was you saying "doh, I forgot to vote MBL."

You are pushing a case that your town doesn't agree with.

Zindaras voted me just now to join you in your folly, and I think his reasoning was far less than thorough. Pablito, Nightson, sv, Luckay explicitly said they find me townish. The rest of the town doesn't find me scummy enough to vote for.

You're going to get crucified tomorrow if you lynch me today unless you drum up some more support, so I suggest you start working on that now.

Yos, a lot has happened that you haven't commented on. You're pretty defensive, and haven't done a very good job of pointing out scum, in my opinion. To some extent that's your general playstyle, to stick to narrower lines or question and response, but I think at this point it's essential that you start doling out some meatier, broader analysis on all the players of this game. If you get executed today, and turn up town, I will have very little idea how you felt about the majority of the town. I've never seen you as scum, and maybe this "less insightful, somewhat aloof" Yos is what scum Yos looks like.

[MrBuddyLee]

And I chuckle as I call it "your town".

[MrBuddyLee]

God, is Glork's execution list terrible. "Hey, Ima choose between four good scumhunters, help me pick one while we ignore the lurkers and less experienced scum."

I just reread Pooky. He hasn't expressed many opinions on various players. He has made some valid points, like the "KM as executioner" point and pointing out the folly of Glork drawing attention to himself if he's town. Pooky's thin on suspicions in all games lately, I think it's a survival tactic due to past NK issues, and it's tough to tell whether he's scum or town now. I think the king should demand more info from Pooky. I'd also like Glork to reiterate his reasons for wanting to execute each person on his list. The list posts by player functionality is crippled and makes searching for this ourselves very difficult right now.

Yos has been primarily defensive, and suspects Twomz and Phoebus, two people who haven't said much. For bad votes with no stated reasons on bad wagons. He finds PJ pablito bird cbox townish. He's gone from finding Glork explicitly pro-town to finding him suspect over the past three weeks. Meh play by Yos overall.

Pablito, I've commented on recently. I think I may have found a slip in his post about PJ's execution list, but that requires that bird and pabs are scum together. I think he gave PJ cover or encouraged PJ to execute Rosso. Thing is, he's posted an absolute shitload of content, and if he's protown he's very helpful town to have around. If he's scum, he'll probably hang himself and his friends. Unless he's a master of achieving randomness of suspicion and comment, which I don't kn9ow cause I haven't played with him much.

Why are none of the useless people on the execution list? This is a Mountainous game ffs. My scumteam won Himalayan with the following strategy:

* lie low
* express balanced suspicions of safe targets
* keep lurkers and noncontributors around to endgame to cast suspicion on later

Please add CTD to the people who find my actions reasonable this game. Also,

vote: CTD

. I've read him in games where he was fabulously insightful. Where's the curiosity, CTD? Your defense of me, while accurate, is easily something scum could do safely, knowing that when I come up pro-town someday, having defended my arguments will be a +1 in your book. I'd really like to see a complete list of CTD suspicions beyond the lurker list of votes you posted three weeks ago.

Glork said:

I'm going to read over CTD's posts soon to see how I feel about him. Hey Fritz, who are CTD's scumbuddies?

But CTD's not on the list of execution, only on a Glork list of possible scum. Fascinating.



Twomz's posts today:

Lol, in all my games the major posts attacking or defending <____> are gone.... wtf?

still here

Glork voted Twomz but did not add him to his execution list despite Twomz posting absolutely nothing for three weeks. Curious.

Mert has been useless for a month and a half. I don't see his posts before that as terribly scummy, but his suspicions have been thin and reiterated: Phoebus, bird, pablito. Surely Mert's got more insight than that, and I will say that in Himalayan I found it easiest to repeat the same suspicions over and over--it reinforced them and at the same time made me look active when I wasn't actually adding any new suspicions to the game or offending anyone new who might then take a closer look at me. Full list of suspicions please, Mert.

vote: Mert

Rikimaru: four posts, one about nothing, three about pablito. And Rikimaru hasn't made Glork's radar. Brilliant Kingship, your majesty.

vote: Rikimaru

cardboardbox posted substance once today, three weeks ago, to attack three lurkers. Nothing since. No attention from the King on cbox for this slackness that I've noted.

saying that Glork shouldn't execute someone he thinks is scum (assuming he was executing you), simply because the rest of the town wouldn't like it is stupid

This is nonsense, Nightson. If you're a king, you decide who you want to execute, then you run it by your town. If they don't agree with you, you listen to them, seeing as how the majority of them are good guys. If you go ahead and execute your target anyway:

1) You'll probably nail a townie
2) You'll probably get annihilated tomorrow for going against the wishes of your town.

I am not making this observation selectively towards Glork. PJ also did not make a good case against Rosso, did NOT get the town's support for the lynch, and today PJ is viewed as suspect by many for it. It's a DUH thing: get your town's support for your lynch, and if you can't make them buy your case, maybe just maybe you're wrong about it.

Guys, we aren't going to get investigation results on cbox or StallingChamp or Rikimaru. It's going to come down to day eight and four of these slack bastards are going to be around along with three scum. And unless we put them on the hotseat

NOW

and get them talking, it'll be a coinflip as to which are scum and which are town. Good luck with that.

Rather than further insult Glork's kingship, I'll say how I'd have handled today. I wouldn't make a stupid list of execution until I'd dragged the lurkers out of hiding, put them on the spot and gotten them on the record. Or demanded replacements. Only then would I feel comfortable narrowing the focus to a couple of players. Glork is effectively giving the megalurkers cover with his LOE. Today is now officially about {Pooky, Yos, Pablito, MBL} and the bottom feeders can keep hiding out. They're off the hook. And Glork's sealed the deal by saying he knows he's going to execute, removing all incentive for scum to comment at this point.

Ugh, terrible.

[MrBuddyLee]

Zindaras voted me just now to join you in your folly, and I think his reasoning was far less than thorough.

How is my reasoning far less than thorough? You can just say that it is, but you don't explain that at all.

You're going to get crucified tomorrow if you lynch me today unless you drum up some more support, so I suggest you start working on that now.

I don't like how you're trying to scare Glork out of executing you here. I don't think you should be executed today (I find Yos even scummier), but I don't like this.

2) I'm not trying to scare Glork out of executing me. Read more carefully. I'm trying to get Glork to drum up town support for his case against me. If he can't, that says something. Anyone who thinks I'm trying to intimidate Glork out of executing me is wrong. I'm asking him to lay out his case to see if it holds water, because that's how the game is played. Nightson just voted me for the same reason you don't like my comment here: you both misread it.

1) Here's your case against me:

I don't like how he's(MBL's) playing. At all. He attacked pablito, timmy, SC, cbox and Glork early on, then said pablito, Phoebus and MoS were being awkward, then made a list of execution containing Rosso, Twomz and CTD. Day 2 he voted Fritz and timmy.

Zind, you don't explain what's wrong about any of this

at all

. "No reasoning".

He's posted strange stuff all game. He stated pablito was suspicious for changing a vote to a FoS. He tried to link Mert to Glork. He brought up the nutty nuts-theory. He tried to link PJ, pablito and Glork. He stated that PJ/Pooky/Glork should've died, not Thok.

Again, you don't explain why ANY of this is strange. It's not self-evident, trust me.

Why

do you find the nut-kicking theory strange, for example? Why do you find any of the above listed things strange? Many people have found many of those observations of mine quite reasonable, so make your case.

I also noticed a lack of interaction between him(MBL) and Yos, which could be construed as distancing. I definitely think he's scum right now.

Aha. A specific. The only explanatory detail in your entire case against me. I am correct when I say that your case against me is not explicitly well reasoned. Which puts you in the excellent company of his Majesty.

[MrBuddyLee]

Right Glork, I'm the moron. You're just the guy who gave Phoebus, Rikimaru, Mert and Nightson homework and then made a list of execution

WITH NONE OF THEM ON IT

even though

they all ignored your homework for three weeks.

You didn't give homework to or prod Twomz, you didn't prod box, you're not under deadline. But you've got an execution target. Yay for you, let's get today over with quick before one of your lurky scumpartners checks in and says something stupid so you have to kill them.

And I'm pretty sure I've asked for more info from lurkers in this game. You may have too from time to time, but your actions speak otherwise with an LOE out and an execution decision before the lurker issues are even resolved.

It's tough to be thorough right now with "list all" broken (it's the scumhunter's best tool imo) but I'm trying my best to be accurate. And you're trying your best to hurry this day to completion. You have NO idea how scummy you look right now, do you Glork? If you're town, you'd best actually read our posts to see why town finds you scummy, and take it to heart. You're stifling the game by narrowing discussion to your list, whether that's your stated intention or not.

[MrBuddyLee]

Actually, MBL, there's one more thing that bothers me. For your ranting about how I haven't handled lurkers well enough, you've done nothing yourself to promote activity in this game. You have not asked for a single modprod or replacement request. You have not asked a direct question to a lurker. Only just now, as you tried once again to rip into me, did you even make a focused attack/case against a specific lurker. Explain the hypocrisy behind your allegations that

I'm

not doing enough, when I've asked for prods on a semi-regular basis, and asked specific questions of Mert and Der Hammer to get them to read and post. Explain how you can justify your attack when you yourself have made

EXACTLY ZERO

requests for modprods or replacements.

This paragraph is propagandist bullshit.

1) I've commented on lurkers in 477, 745, 749. I don't lynch in this game. The king does. The king therefore is the only one with the muscle behind threats against lurkers. Nightson's even said you shouldn't give a shit what your town thinks. You're the lyncher. You make the threats.

2) You saying I've done nothing to promote activity in this game is an utter load of horseshit. I expect a few people will take you to task on this one. I've probably addressed more players directly than anyone else. I've probably promoted more theories and connections for people to comment on. What are you talking about?

3) You're the king. It's not hypocritical for me to expect you to do a better job of prodding and asking for lurker replacements than me. That's absurd. I think you're trying to APPEAR like you give a shit about lurkers, but the fact that you made a LOE when you did speaks otherwise. By the way, those homework questions that you're so proud of didn't jump out at me as particularly insightful.

4) I don't have to ask for prods or replacements to be doing my job. And I certainly don't have to ask for them in order to find you slack for the way you're approaching the lurkers in relationship to this game.

I will seriously do a jig if you turn up scum. You're trying harder to look good than you are trying to play well.

*** Oh, also. Fritzler's been pushing CTD all game. You haven't asked him for more. This implies you're thoroughly satisfied with that contribution and are pretty sure CTD is scum. Is that accurate, and if so, why isn't CTD on your list of execution? If he DOESN'T belong on your LOE, then why haven't you pressed Fritz for an opinion on the four people on your LOE? ***

[MrBuddyLee]

I maintain that your insinuation that I'm rushing anything is beyond ridiculous. I said I know who my execution target is. But I also said that I had no plans on making the execution anytime soon, since I wanted to see all open discussion topics come to an end. THAT INCLUDES THE PENDING ANSWERS FROM THOSE WHO HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO MY HOMEWORK.

Hay kids, your homework will still be due on the last day of school. It won't count towards your final grades, cause I already calculated them, but turn it in anyway, K? Huggles.

[MrBuddyLee]

Seriously. Explain the entirety of this post, rather than going "oshit, Glork has come to a decision. He's 'rushing' things." I fucking dare you. Because I don't think you can legitimately back up the kind of assertion you're making.

"This post":

Oh, and for the record, I now know who I will be executing today. I won't make an execution yet, and I will not announce my victim right now. I think the discussion right now is going very well (although I really wish that more people would participate actively in the discussion). I'd like to see this continue.

Discussion is oriented towards FINDING SCUM. Once you've said YOU KNOW WHO YOU'RE EXECUTING, do you really expect

most people

to continue discussing things the same way they were? You already have a lurker problem, and once you seal your little black envelope of doom with someone's name inside it, it's probably only going to get worse. You're naive if you think your rushed pronouncement was good for town and has no chance of having a negative impact. If scum wants to be safe right now, they can pick someone off that list and agree with you that that person is scummy.

Glork, you've gotten two people to agree with your reasoning behind putting me on your LOE. Zindaras, who gave no reasoning, and Nightson who misread a post of mine and reached an erroneous conclusion the day after he explicitly stated he thought I was pro-town. The lack of support for your points from this large town is extraordinarily notable. Once again, I request that you find a significant number, say five players willing to support my execution. I don't take being on your list lightly, as you can tell, and I plan to fight it.

I'm going to pipe down for a bit. There's a lot for other people to comment on, and no one likes reading endless walls of text from the same players.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sorry, I promised to stfu but there's more to respond to:

I'm not particularly worried about Glork executing me. He'd only do it as scum at this point (without town backing him), and it'd probably be his death sentence tomorrow. I'm more interested in understanding why his LOE sucks so bad and why he feels he's done enough work to be able to declare he's decided who to execute.

MBL, Yosarian, and Pooky currently make up my tentative Execution List.

I think it's apparent that MBL and Pooky are atop my list (

Yos has slipped just a tiny bit

, and Pablito is beginning to rise), and barring something fairly significant, I will be executing one of the four of them.

You should know my thoughts on Yos. He's on my execution list; I am definitely leaning towards him being scum right now.

Oh, and for the record, I now know who I will be executing today.

Glork, please explain how Yos made your LOE, then he slipped down your list, then you're leaning towards him being scum, and in the midst of all this fluidity, you achieved certainty over who you'd execute. All in a span of four days. What events caused this fluidity in your opinion of Yos? Please answer this question without going back to reread the thread--it's the past four days I'm concerned with here, and they should be fresh enough in your head to recite your thought process from memory.

[MrBuddyLee]

Don't be so goddamned fatalist, MBL. Finding scum is a process, and people still discuss to find scum even if they think that they have settled on a lynch for that day.

Yeah, maybe five of us. The rest will be happy that you've made your decision and lay back and eat cake.

[MrBuddyLee]

I have already stated that I believe Fritz is pro-town. That does *NOT* mean that I agree with the conclusions he has drawn.

Fritz's actions this game:

1) CTD is scum, lynch him NOW PJ!
2) CTD is scum, lynch him NOW, Glork!
3) Pooky is a good guy.
4) PJ is scum and omitted analysis of his scumbuddy. (maybe a joke by Fritz, dunno)

You disagree with every post of substance Fritz has made.

*He finds CTD above and beyond scummy, you don't have CTD on your execution list.
* He finds Pooky gg, you have Pooky atop your LOE.
* He commented that PJ was scum, you defend PJ actively as pro-town.

So please tell me what evidence you have that Fritz is gg. You disagree with EVERY point I make pretty much, and I am bg. How are you finding Fritz to be gg?

Please give us specifics on what's changed your opinion of Yos back and forth in the past four days.

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork, do you have any assignments for me while I reread the thread?

Hey Zindaras, I'm curious, are you pitching or catching for Glork's team in tonight's doubleheader? Good god, man, I didn't think anyone could possibly kiss up more than pablito did, but you've done it. Congratulations. I counted thirty-seven distinct suckups to Glork by you, and you've only been in the game four days. And I nearly split a spleen laughing when I read this:

spectrumvoid: I'm getting the feeling she's trying to stay on the Kings' good side (she's been friendly towards both Glork and PJ).... I definitely think she's scum.

I can't believe you have the gall to say that when every other sentence you type is a defense of a Glork action or an attack on a comment about Glork. pablito did it strategically for some curious reason or another, but yours looks more like straight up brown-nosing, and it's going to trash your credibility in this game if you're not careful.

You say you're primarily finding Glork and pablito innocent because of who's attacking them. Well, let me tell you how I see your entry into this game. As scum or town, you decided to make faith in Glork the cornerstone of your worldview. Now, every action anyone takes is seen by you through Glork-colored glasses. And it doesn't sound like you're keeping the option open that the people criticizing Glork are town--you're trying to splat every single anti-Glork point down with a giant flyswatter.

If you're town, you should view my arguments from both perspectives, one of which is the truth: I'm legitimately suspicious of Glork and others, I'm not distancing from Yos or CTD, because I'm town. If you're town, I hope you realize you're on an island by yourself as you find everything I say scummy and you find everything Glork says smells like roses. It's true that occasionally one town makes a brilliant scum discovery that no one else agrees with, but let me tell ya, ace, this ain't that time. You're utterly tone-deaf on this one. Or you're scum.

Addressing your reasons for finding me scummy (which I think are all secondary to the real reason: cause I'm being big meanie to your pal Glork):

You go from pablito/timmy/sc/cbox/Glork to pablito/Phoebus/MoS to Rosso/Twomz/CTD. That's quite a changing list. I find that suspicious, since, to me, it seems a bit like you're just trying to find a good execution target and you disregard the rest.

This is a silly comment. Since when are suspicions not supposed to change over the course of D1? OMG MBL U RANDOM VOTED PHOEBUS AND U DONT FIND HIM SCUMMY NEMORE WTF

I find it odd that you attacked pablito for changing a vote to a FoS. There really is quite a small difference, but I don't see why only scum would see that difference.

Scum are more concerned with their image than town. Thus they'd be more likely to draw attention to changes in their image via tricks like this. I believe the first scum caught in Himalayan was nailed for doing something similar. I never said it was a guaranteed tell, just something to note.

Linking Mert to Glork was rather ridiculous, in my eyes, when Glork was asking Mert for clarification.

You bought Glork's "linking" paranoia hook, line and sinker, which is not surprising given your deepfelt love for him. What actually happened is that Glork made a big post commenting on most of the players in the game. I noticed that he left out Mert and asked him for his opinion of Mert. Glork called me a fucking idiot who couldn't read. I corrected him--he'd actually never given his opinion of Mert, so he was wrong and I was immensely relieved to not be a fucking idiot. That is what actually happened, and it doesn't surprise me that you were too busy sucking Glork's toes to get the story correct.

The nuts-theory...I have played in quite a few Mafias, and I've never seen it happen.

And you find me scummy for thinking it up? Got a surprise for ya boy genius: PJ thought it up independently at the same time I did.

Linking PJ, pablito and Glork. Again, pablito was on PJ's and Glork's execution list.

I'm not trying to irrevocably link those three--I clearly stated such. I'm just presenting evidence that may help draw conclusions later. Are you saying scum kings wouldn't ever put any scumpartners on their LOEs? That's deliciously naive of you.

I don't see the reasoning why PJ/Pooky/Glork should've died over Thok, so I think you're trying to cast suspicion on good, active players that way.

I thought you found Pooky a sucky, inactive player. I stated that Thok was a perfectly fine scumkill N1, so congratulations for missing the crux of my point entirely.

Sorry if this post seems harsh, it's actually all in good fun. And you really should get your nose out of there before any permanent damage is done.

[MrBuddyLee]

Nightson and Twomz are the most obvious skimmers who don't seem to give a rat's ass about finding actual scum. I'll weigh in on the rest after more people have posted their opinions of Glork and his LOE. Glork, I'm inclined to trust you on the Zindaras thing. I guess being kissed up to doesn't ping your scumdar like it does mine. The fact that the guy entered the game and posted War and Peace doesn't hurt his credentials either.

[MrBuddyLee]

Here.

Zin, the fact that you're posting volumes makes me more likely to think you're town interested in figuring out alignments. The more people post, the more they put themselves at risk for sounding phony, because they KNOW who the scum and innocents are. This is why I try to get everyone to post a lot of responses to a lot of varying crap: it's like the police grilling a suspect. Do it enough times, get them emotional, and you'll catch them in a slip. They'll change a fact or suspicion, or they'll word something in a way that belies their knowledge of someone's alignment. Of course, you'll piss off a few townies in the process, but since when are the cops supposed to be nice guys?

If you're phony, you're doing an OK job of it. If you're for real, I'd broaden your focus and free up your mind a bit if I were you. You're letting one wrong conclusion quite possibly lead you down some wrong paths.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm playing.

[MrBuddyLee]

OK, so bird was just lynched as scum in Space Monkey Mafia. Though he experienced an epiphany in

this

game and decided he wanted to be a contributor, he did not have the same epiphany in Space Monkey. He pretty much got lynched for never posting jack, and for a little suspicious behavior too.

I find the dissonance odd, and am going to roll today with the working theory that bird got his shit together in this game and posted a MASSIVE post because his scumpartners asked him to.

He was nutkicked.

He is scum.

unvote everyone, vote: bird

[MrBuddyLee]

Please elaborate, Z, that's an empty statement.

[MrBuddyLee]

Well, I'm not saying it's anything definite either. But if his pattern across two games is to lurk and be unhelpful, but suddenly he posts a doozy at the start of today in THIS game, I'm comfortable with the hypothesis that he got nutkicked by his scumpartners overnight.

[MrBuddyLee]

Remove MBL, Pablito from the Execution List. Add Mert to the Execution List

Hmm, maybe his scumdar's not broken after all. Or he's wily scum.

Rikimaru's usually more helpful than this, and if he doesn't make an effort soon I'm gonna venture a guess that he's scum along with bird.

[MrBuddyLee]

Really, how different is Pooky from Bird? Are you (and/or others) really going to use the excuse that Bird's

overnight

inspiration indicates that he was nutkicked?

Pooky's actions can be explained by a multitude of in-game factors we can all see in thread. He got threatened publicly; he posted big.

Bird's actions cannot be explained by anything in thread. He was threatened, he DIDN'T post, someone else got executed, and with no intervening events in game, bird posted massively to start D2. The two situations are massively different. And I'm stunned Glork that you never even put bird on your execution list. The only thing I can think is that I was the one who proposed nutkicking and Pooky bought into it, you had us on your LOE, so you "thought bird was innocent cause scummy people found him 'scummy'".

I'll reread your posts in a sec, so please ignore this if you've already done it, but Glork, please post anything bird's done personally to make you think he's pro-town.

Oddly enough, he says he would expect me to throw a noncontributive scumbuddy under the bus. And if I had executed him as scum a couple of weeks ago, that would've basically been what I did.

This reads oddly no matter how many times I read it.

[MrBuddyLee]

I think Mert would be a bad execution today. He posted a lot and it most all made good sense. Even though he's disappeared, I see no reason to kill a player who had the incentive to provide pro-town insight.

Mert would probably be capable of the same pro-town insight as scum, but I think the fact he posted well should keep him from being killed today.

There are plenty of slackers and ne'er-do-wells I think are better targets. I am against a Pooky lynch today, a Yos lynch today, a pablito lynch today. I don't think killing any of them would yield significant additional info on other players, and I think each will be able to be gauged by their words in the days to come. I'd rather kill someone currently scummy who we'll have trouble getting a read on later because they don't say much. Pooky pabs Yos just havent crossed the threshhold for me yet, and I'd rather we not off them today.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Lowell

Ouuuuugah.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: MoS

[MrBuddyLee]

Good luck, town! *shakes fist at scummity scum*

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd be happy to mod if McQueso doesn't have a backup mod. Let me know if that becomes necessary.

[MrBuddyLee]

bird was nutkicked

that is all