Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[Mehdi2277]

VOTE: Enigma

Procrastinated thread reading and I'll do it now. Currently on page 11 and enigma's early play with how he just backed off so easily on nacho was bad (noir vote a point in his favor, but considering it looks like two scum teams that doesn't really help much especially when the vote was weak too). Pasch's early play is scummy for how he could take alsark's joke claim as a serious evil one.

If I am missing something current (ergo avox votes with no explanation tell it to me). I'm not going to try reading the last pages without going from the start.

[Mehdi2277]

Well it's going along as I read so I'll end up reading the flips fully later anyway. And explain how pasche looks scummy for x is bad?

From where I'm at other read wise is town on titan, xtoph (primarily for 262), nika's slot, and deas. Saw some discussion on vifam but so far weak town read.

[Mehdi2277]

Nacho repeat argument?

[Mehdi2277]

Does red cheery make sense nacho (or disagree with titan)?

[Mehdi2277]

Well one scum team has been called light green. I'll refer to the other known one as red (it's the color I associate most with mafia).

[Mehdi2277]

Not reading til later, but going off the last couple of pages still don't think xtoph is scum (his all tone doesn't feel paniced, but overly logical town nor does the things he's asking look like desperate defense or anything). Zdenek's frustration comes off genuine. Maenara something told me they were town (specifically I think they're first post of the day that short wall that outside of xtoph doesn't really just follow other people nor does the later back and forth look scum flailing or trying to stay hidden). BT's mae vote feels forced along with his questions. Fate considering you haven't read the whole game how did you get a town read on him (and if someone wants to quote a past reason that works too). Zeta (or whatever the greek letter is) can be considered town for similar to maenara just helping his own fos along that isn't really with the rest at all.

Nacho what's bad on the malpa reasoning?

Next over reacting is a player tell and unless backed with meta shouldn't be treated like a scum tell.

Zeta plenty of catch up posts occur. They are far from rare (and posting a list of links to games you haven't done them quickly is scummy how?)

[Mehdi2277]

1594: He did post links in 1579. My point isn't that the links backed up he did catch up posts but his willingness to post them. I've heard the reasoning why it's good scum do them. Town reasoning is pretty simple, it's a way to show a flow of thoughts and just be able to add your own opinion on what's happened then end with some reads that followed something. It's a common enough thing and saying it's scummy in general or even just the wall is scummy overall doesn't work well without being specific.

1605: Nacho so which is more likely? The reasoning he's pushing shows a good amount of thought and looks genuine to me.

1616: Pretty sure you could understand what he meant and give more then that.

1617: Providing data not asked on yourself and self meta are essentially the same thing. Only real difference is whether one's subjective or objective self meta.

1619/1620: Being wrong on a player doesn't kill overall ability.

1621: That questions shows thought plus what did he expect the response then? To be oh I'm lazy. Nah he was probably getting a reason why people are voting someone not cause the wagon to disappear by that question.

1627: Any meta on malp being the type of scum to buddy a lot?

Someone else say your read on cE (or more on why he's being fairly ignored when I don't see a reason for him as town)? Followed by the sheer amount of lurking is really letting multiple people float by (which I admit I'm partly doing but ignoring it is definitely not helping).

Quil's logic flows pretty easily and saying that focusing on people (when declared) is scummy in this large of a game is just dumb (I honestly probably couldn't say all of your names right now).

[Mehdi2277]

I'm assuming he's referring to the game broken/cheated comment. And honestly I know multiple players that feel sad as town to play in a game broken for the town. Thinking of it and really a lot of his play that tends to appear more makes me have him as town.

Mae you said he was on popular wagons. Whether SAR is some special reason or not he's shown it untrue. Point is how does not make you reconsider a bit instead of just continue with the attack and modify.

Aldusk explain the BT and my read. Along with how cE is weak scum not worthy of a wagon to be willing to go on.

[Mehdi2277]

BT generally seems to put effort into this game, linking stuff, checking votes, analyzing as necessary. He doesn't post tons, but his reads are about right.

K, thanks.

Nacho how many people are obv scum?

Continuing lynching scummy lurkers works best early on (that and I'm not a big fan of maenara or cheery wagons based on what they've said today). AV is more doable if no one wants to move to cE.

[Mehdi2277]

Brood want to answer the question of do you think malp is the type of person to buddy a partner that obviously? Meh, the wagon on him is better then mae or cheery too.

~Mehdi

[Mehdi2277]

Today's posts by them. Read only them then explain to me how they're good wagons (and I haven't bothered reading most of day 1 so I'm just using day 2 and anything quoted today to make reads mainly).

Maenara something told me they were town (specifically I think they're first post of the day that short wall that outside of xtoph doesn't really just follow other people nor does the later back and forth look scum flailing or trying to stay hidden)

Plus for Mae also doesn't feel connected to anyone. They seem to mainly be attacking and looking at people instead of entering a lot of defending.

As for cheery he just feels relaxed and fine today as well while being attacked. Do you think asking aren't I one of the main suspects too is a question likely to come from scum?

[Mehdi2277]

Quote important ones then. I probably won't read most of day 1 til thanksgiving break, but until then if you have a good day 1 reason to vote someone it shouldn't be hard to say it again with quotes as needed.

[Mehdi2277]

And cheery's current whole line of comments serves minimal scum motivation. It's not really getting nacho lynched nor does it help him a ton. Yeah I think he's town based on day 2 posted.

[Mehdi2277]

Nacho remind me how brood's obv scum?

[Mehdi2277]

Minimal cE commenting. VOTE: Brood with the reason primarily being 1748.

[Mehdi2277]

So is mae a bigger scum read then?

[Mehdi2277]

Isn't por a vig? Or am I remembering something wrong.

[Mehdi2277]

Explain Sunshine and fate reads. Fate seems normal (that and I agree with his point on the laziness the malpa wagon has become). Curious how he got a scum read on cheery in 1780 (I don't consider asking why someone is ignoring a wagon scummy).

You could also swap over to brood too. Is that list of other scum reads in order of scumminess or just random order?

[Mehdi2277]

When I say lazy I'm referring to votes like robo (philla being another example although in a different way). That and my own pet suspicion on brood and cE is higher.

[Mehdi2277]

So OMGUS when it barely fits but sounds like a nice word to use?

[Mehdi2277]

Mae I think you're town. What's your read on me then if it's town would you like to back me up on brood?

[Mehdi2277]

Or for the second one:

"Malpa stop playing dumb. I can see why town wants you dead."

[Mehdi2277]

Any games for the last year? I realize he probably doesn't have any recents to compare to, but assuming his scum play from 09 is the same as his scum play of 2012 is a dumb assumption.

[Mehdi2277]

What year are those games from?

[Mehdi2277]

So other wise they're back wards? I mainly skipped to the last one to see if it was recent. Well that works better for connecting things then he's just being close to past scum.

VOTE: Malpa

And change the question to mae to would you be willing to back me up on malpa now vs waiting. I believe my vote puts malpa at L-1.

[Mehdi2277]

My vote will make more sense if you ask me in a few weeks.

[Mehdi2277]

That and previous night actions, character, and flavor if any.

[Mehdi2277]

Nacho why the drop off malpa?

[Mehdi2277]

His claim isn't worth much until he expands on it. Sure those questions apply but at the same time he hasn't really answered the second or 3rd himself (for the second we still don't know what "super" means).

[Mehdi2277]

Deas same question I asked nacho.

[Mehdi2277]

Can you predict my next question?

[Mehdi2277]

Dan that was a case where he was a jk and scum. So comparing it to saying the claim is just fake to the alignment is still scum is different.

[Mehdi2277]

Cause it's his meta to buddy other scum as scum usually instead of directly bussing and he did it to two scum when we've only had 4 deaths (and both are scum from the same team).

I still do want to hear his targets and what super jk does before he's lynched.

[Mehdi2277]

Cheery quote the strange interactions nacho has with flipped scum.

[Mehdi2277]

Why titan?

Ald when do we lynch someone without a cop report? 100 percent sure to be scum for a lynch just rarely happens. I will accept 50 percent happily.

[Mehdi2277]

And malpa still missing who's your character?

And ald the defense when the attack is three quotes long shouldn't be a long defense. I think countering three quotes long of an accusation shouldn't think that long to write and would be fairly short to say even while on v/la.

[Mehdi2277]

And nacho I actually agree with him being obv scum right now based on really bad associations. I already said that I can explain how my read on him went in more detail in the future, but not now.

[Mehdi2277]

Nacho how is cheery attacking you scum motivated when the attack is doubtful to get a lynch on you? I don't agree with the attack and while it's a weak attack I disagree it makes him scummy.

P-edit: The interactions I've seen given are three quotes. I could counter them with a made up reason in 2 minutes. I'm sure he could too if he had an honest defense.

P-edit2: I find nacho fine with malpa. He isn't doing it in some sly way. He's defending pretty clearly with why (thinks there are better lynches and today's one is lazy).

The rest is interesting though, although I'm curious how much suspicion pandorica ever had day 1 (yeah I still haven't read most of day 1).

[Mehdi2277]

Titan if you could someone not known as a town read of mine (like mae) who would it be (besides malpa)?

Same question to nacho and fate plus any other person I've shown trust in.

[Mehdi2277]

Add kill between could and someone.

[Mehdi2277]

Meh, thought on it and with all the vig curiousity well I'm one. And unlike some others I like my kill directed so I was debating claiming (treating it somewhat like a second lynch where I care on opinions of who to shoot, but still have control over it). I shot no one last night (hadn't read enough to shoot). Aradia 0_0. Minimal flavor which just deals with time powers that can be used to beat people and like for breaking things. Curious where cheery got all roles have flavor (sounded like he had long flavor) when mine was fairly short.

Titan I'd need more on avox to shoot him. Brood or cE I'm leaning towards (cE more since while scummy none of you want to lynch the super lurker so shooting him would work well).

[Mehdi2277]

Well the way you said it just sounded like it the flavor itself would make a big difference so I thought you meant you had a decent amount of flavor.

Torgon what does sunman mean as a reply to that quote?

[Mehdi2277]

Before day end and I've been thinking on how directed kills would work. I don't really mind a vote on who I kill as long as it isn't town reads.

[Mehdi2277]

A weak one yes. Town reads can be argued out of and fate honestly doesn't seem different then I expect of him. Even weak scum reads I wouldn't shoot unless multiple said yes with some reason (add that as a rule that while voting works the votes have to have more reason then robo's malpa vote for me to care for them).

[Mehdi2277]

Same as others I'd need more then shoot this guy please to consider it. Reasons/logic/quotes work great.

[Mehdi2277]

I can see multiple vigs. I'm curious what happened to claiming character and flavor (it's not like it'd hurt to claim it if you've given role already). Beyond that play wise from what I've read I don't find them scummy although I disagree with vig usage (I prefer claiming my shots and then letting scum deal with it along with some directing since it makes a semi lynch) but that's more theory.

[Mehdi2277]

Remind where por pushes you today and where he pushes you as the guy he wants to shoot soon?

[Mehdi2277]

So how is cheery worse then malpa from that quote if that's making you go don't see cheery as scum to this?

Still disagree with you on mae.

[Mehdi2277]

Theory is he's green scum correct? There's a pretty easy way to test his claim. I shoot him and he jailkeeps me. If he dies then he didn't jailkeep me. I doubt he's a roleblocker since green already has a dead role blocker (black roleblocker maybe but the case on him is associations with green scum). Not sure how likely an actual jailkeeper and a roleblocker are on the same team.

Nacho I actually find 2149 fairly comforting when it comes to Brood. Not original, but the line of thought he's pushing there I like.

So back to VOTE: cE. Cheery's grown more doable and mae is pushing me when I'm about the only person who trusts them is annoying and good at the same time.

[Mehdi2277]

And for anyone thinking I'll be roleblocked, assuming malpa is green scum then black would have no desire to stop me, green is doubtful to have two roles that can block roles (and follows I don't think green would have two redirection type roles), and town shouldn't be stopping me.

[Mehdi2277]

Quick check on one thing:

Mod: How'd conflicting stuns work? Specifically jailkeeper targeting one person while being stunned themselves by a different player?

[Mehdi2277]

K, at the moment only problem I could is black scum roleblocking malpa if they have a RB to make sure he dies, but whether they'd do it (when it'd be fairly useless if he was scum) and could do it hampers that some. If he dies as town jailkeeper that'd at least confirm one team (likely black mainly since two RBs feels doubtful) has a roleblocker still alive.

[Mehdi2277]

Robo who are you voting? Since saying the problem with the plan is scum won't follow it would mean you think I'm mafia. Vifam I'm also curious where would mafia bother shooting him come in. The idea is for me to shoot him.

Anyways claim wise I'm going with either a. he's mafia and that's not his role (two stunners on one team of likely 4-5 feels strange) or b. he's town and that is his role so it should be easy for him to stun me. This plan basically says if he's alive tomorrow we aren't lynching him for a while since it'd confirm I got blocked or something similar.

Remind me why cE is ignored again? We've cleared up he's a weak general scum read and that he's lurked a ton, but that's not enough somehow.

[Mehdi2277]

Before that. Back when I started wanting him lynched near the beginning of the day. Point is he's a weak scum read that's staying alive (in this case with a replacement that'll appear later). Or was he ever super active?

[Mehdi2277]

Link please?

[Mehdi2277]

Buld what do you think of mae considering you know their meta better then I do.

Ald it's better than robo's reservations to it. Although it's dodging answering problems of this particular one (sure a RB would screw me over but how likely do you think felt is to have a RB and a 1 shot global RB).

And buld I maybe blind (well I'm skimming an iso), but how is cE being fairly active even though I see some blanks post wise compare to flaking out?

P-edit: Philla want to actually vote cE then?

[Mehdi2277]

Do you know why I want to vig malpa? Him being scummy isn't the only reason (or I'd be voting him right now instead).

[Mehdi2277]

Then I just disagree with you. Weak posts show some effort and making multiple is different then not making any posts.

[Mehdi2277]

Vifam I claimed vig. My plan was basically shoot malpa and him jailkeep me under the guess that if he's green scum he won't be a RB since that'd mean green scum would have two role blockers.

[Mehdi2277]

Jailkeeper + 1 shot RB/Redirector + Jack of all trades + unknown (maybe + another unknown) doesn't look like a likely scum team to me.

[Mehdi2277]

Robo I'm referring to you saying how could things wrong with hoping mafia kill malpa or something when it was me who claimed I'll shoot malpa.

Fate a not green scum result is close to not scum when the case on him is based on associations with green scum.

[Mehdi2277]

He's replaced out, but his slot can still be lynched just fine.

The claim actually was just wanting to make people be able to partly direct my shot since I thought the opinions and associations it'd add would be worth claiming and the plan just came after that.

P-edit: The kills is something I've considered a bit, but have yet to see someone comment on the obvious. Why was there 3 kills? The two vig claims both say they either didn't shoot or shot didn't work (which would mean a potential 5 kills per night).

[Mehdi2277]

The claim actually was just wanting to make people be able to partly direct my shot since I thought the opinions and associations it'd add would be worth claiming and the plan just came after that.

That's why I claimed (and that's I think the 3rd time I've answered why I claimed).

And explain b more? Shooting someone who's going to be lynched isn't bad since it essentially skips one lynch and let's town look at the next (although I'd have to agree with it first).

[Mehdi2277]

Dgb who'd you shoot after malpa?

Ald remind me why you have that read (all it was before was for giving content).

Build him not bring green scum removes the main case on him so while doesn't clear him it defintely lowers his chances of being scum.

As for why I'm treating malpa like this it's because of his claim. Instead of lynching a pr it's not hard to check whether he can stun or not.

[Mehdi2277]

And adding to that shooting by direction has the benefit of speeding up a mislynch. If the town wanted me to shoot them and I shoot elsewhere even if they're town they'd still likely be lynched.

[Mehdi2277]

Vifam how is that a contradiction? Liking someone's vote =/= liking them. If he's obviouslyscummy you could add more then two quotes that aren't even a contradiction.

[Mehdi2277]

Dgb meta wise I've seen him play short posts in Name of the Wind mafia.

Vifam firstpart of that last sentence still applies (mainly if he's obviously what are one or two things he's done you dislike?)

[Mehdi2277]

You realize when black scum wouldn't have shot noir that means they either shot pandorica or epic. Vifam I'm curious why black shot epic instead of pandorica, but a bit of logic doesn't make guessing where shots happened impossible.

Beyond that I don't mind vifam's continuation on avox and VOTE: Avox.

[Mehdi2277]

Por does this feel likely:

Jailkeeper + 1 shot RB/Redirector + Jack of all trades + unknown (maybe + another unknown) doesn't look like a likely scum team to me.

Malpa to be a jailer and green scum makes it true (and if he's not green scum then for me the main part of the case was his interactions with green scum so the idea of him being green would fail).

[Mehdi2277]

He can. But when the case is primarily associations with green scum which him being able to block would make him as unlikely green that kind of removes a big part of why he's getting lynched.

P-edit: His associations aren't just with tazaro but also with pandorica.

[Mehdi2277]

It's essentially I plan to shoot him to test his claim. I don't think he's likely black scum based on what the main argument for him is (and green with that power makes a doubtful scum team).

Why avox, well after malp he looks fine. Vifam gave more reasons on why before.

[Mehdi2277]

Why vote cheery instead of av right now then? AV's wagon has definitely grown.

[Mehdi2277]

Dgb did you read the post I claimed in? It was today.

[Mehdi2277]

Meh, thought on it and with all the vig curiousity well I'm one. And unlike some others I like my kill directed so I was debating claiming (treating it somewhat like a second lynch where I care on opinions of who to shoot, but still have control over it). I shot no one last night (hadn't read enough to shoot). Aradia 0_0. Minimal flavor which just deals with time powers that can be used to beat people and like for breaking things. Curious where cheery got all roles have flavor (sounded like he had long flavor) when mine was fairly short.

Titan I'd need more on avox to shoot him. Brood or cE I'm leaning towards (cE more since while scummy none of you want to lynch the super lurker so shooting him would work well).

Here if it helps you. As for why I claimed I've answered that multiple times already.

[Mehdi2277]

AD considering I'm shooting a PR claim (well one that can stop it) and he's still suspected do you think it's worth keeping a suspicious pr soft claim alive anyway?

[Mehdi2277]

We're stale mating at 3 people right now. Cheery, avox, and malp. Malp gets shot and everyone on that wagon should still disperse, and while I prefer an avox wagon I could accept cheery if we lynch avox tomorrow (unless he actually confirms himself which I doubt will happen).

[Mehdi2277]

Mae what exactly is your suspicion on me? It appeared after I claimed, but how does the claim bother you?

[Mehdi2277]

I can shoot you. If you don't want me to be the one asking I could ask someone else to (I'm not the most suspected person in this game to be unable to do that). You're not unstoppable and can just ignore any questions asked to you.

[Mehdi2277]

There's a difference between want and ability to shoot you.

[Mehdi2277]

I also support having people tell me why the plan sucks vs just it's bad. Some have, but more haven't.

Still wouldn't want the mae wagon though. Cheery I can swap to, but no for mae.

[Mehdi2277]

Green Team
Roleblocker/JK + Goon (assuming both sides have a goon) + Jack of all trades + Global 1 shot RB/Redirector

Does that sound like a likely scum team? Since that's what it takes for malp's claim to be true and for him to be the green scum a lot think he's likely to be.

[Mehdi2277]

My plan only works if he's alive since it's to check his power. Which is why I don't want him lynched.

[Mehdi2277]

I claimed vig. I want to shoot malp to test his pr claim. Others think this is a stupid idea since other role interactions can mess things up. Iso Mae, malp, cheery, and av (part of the arguments deal with interactions with dead scum so iso them too). They're the main people pushed for a lynch (I town read mae though). It takes a lot of votes to lynch a player so getting them all on one of them has been slow. That summarizes the game state.

[Mehdi2277]

Other claim is por being a vig as well. And to clarify malp claimed a jailkeeper variant.

[Mehdi2277]

Shi why? And dgb remind me why shi is a town read?

[Mehdi2277]

xthoph what's your research say on malp's reaction to being nearly lynched as scum? (I'm assuming he's been lynched as scum in the past)

[Mehdi2277]

Titan would voting shi also work? At this point I'm quite near anyone not named malpa and I don't think is town.

[Mehdi2277]

Add on to the end of that last post:

is ok to lynch.

[Mehdi2277]

I'll also add you're slot wasn't super town. You're slot was weakly suspected then some came in and helped a bit then replaced out not long after. I don't remember many people with town reads on you (I asked dgb since she's one).

Continuing the problem with malpa is that again either argue he's black scum or if he's likely green scum let me shoot him and test the claim since JK/RB isn't likely alive on the green team.

[Mehdi2277]

Meh, the reaction is pretty town (also not very smart considering you were still unlikely to be lynched today especially with how much others have been pushed).

[Mehdi2277]

I believe that sets malp to L-1.

[Mehdi2277]

Nothing that I haven't already said. If he's lynched my vig shot should be somewhat predictable.

[Mehdi2277]

don't vig shinori

Shrimp was town.

DGB is on her game with that call.

I think my post before that shows how much I want to vig shi.

[Mehdi2277]

Cheery was my shot. Assuming por shot I'd have expected 4 deaths not 3. Beyond that main change is one of the counter wagons to malp is pretty likely scum (although apathy in that lynch affects things a bit) and currently VOTE: Brood.

[Mehdi2277]

And AV curious what you think right now.

[Mehdi2277]

No I didn't shoot n1. Cheery counter wagon was why. As for brood I'd kind of shoot multiple people at once if possible not one.

[Mehdi2277]

Mae he was bread crumbing a innocent. Cops claim guilties or tunnel a lot more then that. How do I go from trusted yesterday after being unsure to not trusted?

Brood if I shot you I would also be voting cheery. So what exactly did it change? Honestly I just think one of the counter wagons was ideal and cheery was often mentioned as another suspect.

[Mehdi2277]

Titan who's your second biggest scum read?

[Mehdi2277]

Main thing is I'll say this now, anyone who hammers without warning and giving me time to say things will be vig shot. There's some things I'm thinking on.

I still think this is a dumb lynch though (kind of similar to all my remarks on mae yesterday). And the scum slip is what? Thinking it was a guilty and jumping on a wagon. Well if it was a guilty that people believed to have been hinted the wagon would have sprouted either way. So that leaves skimming. Yeah great argument.

[Mehdi2277]

If zdenek's stances generally are weak not sure how a weak stance on malpa is scummy here.

I'm more willing to agree on philla though.

[Mehdi2277]

Brood I honestly mostly ignore shot suggestions unless you actually convince me the person is scum or I already think they're scum. Cheery was a counter wagon quite a bit and that was why he got shot (counter wagon to malp who flipped town).

[Mehdi2277]

If it makes you feel better I originally shot you and then changed shots.

Getting kills directed can be done by convincing me someone's worth voting for. I said it before but I won't just vig someone because people say so without reasons.

[Mehdi2277]

Tammy probably did. Anyways fate opinion on philla/brood? That and vifam's play when mae was pushed doesn't look scum (unless he's scum with mae which I don't think is true). Then hinted cop innocent.

[Mehdi2277]

A refusal to claim without a hammer intent.

[Mehdi2277]

Don't want to. Pretty clear on I don't want mae lynched and unlike malp it's not because I want to test mae.

Mae, you may continue to push me as hard as you desire. I'll honestly ignore it from you when it comes to fosing me.

[Mehdi2277]

Actually the ask assertive players what their reads are is an extremely dumb scum tell (especially when I have a ton of meta proving I ask a lot anyway). In fact they're best to ask. If I want someone lynched then getting the people who actually are pushing to think they're scum is ideal.

Rest also is bad, but I can't see this argument helping me.

[Mehdi2277]

And titan could you respond to 2667?

[Mehdi2277]

I claimed vig a while back. And shot cheery last night.

[Mehdi2277]

It's meta for some reason. I like it. You're kind of having trouble getting the last couple votes to lynch her so why claim if there's a good chance the lynch will be elsewhere?

[Mehdi2277]

The bigger problem with vifam is I think xtoph would show some indication he knows someone is town and that only really fits vifam. Along with I generally don't mind his votes or suspicions. As for fate's accuracy on average sure, but I'd prefer to follow my own stronger scum reads.

[Mehdi2277]

Is a town a who lynched scum every day I helped somewhat in a good enough reason to sheep me on Brood?

[Mehdi2277]

Deas what's your read on DGB?

Dgb how is claiming in general good? Because that's what it's when mae is several votes away from being lynched (this question applies to any who suspected him for lack of claim or showed dislike toward the lack of claim).

Shi elaborate on zdenek.

Lastly for reads bumi explain why you find sanjay and mae scummy.

Vote wise, brood I've yet to see much argument for him town ever. Av similarly, but different in how some think he's town just won't explain it much. Mae wagon should still collapse. Philla is one that should sprout too.

And for anyone who's called me close to confirmed then is there a reason you're still voting mae (this applies to bulder mainly although really anyone with a strong town read on me).

[Mehdi2277]

You could vote brood, av, or philla for me as a start if you need to solidify somewhere.

[Mehdi2277]

Better protection targets, protective role didn't trust him, or protective role didn't exist.

[Mehdi2277]

And continuing on that there were 5 kills that could have been shot last night. I only see 3 deaths.

[Mehdi2277]

I saw 3 deaths n1. Por claimed his kill didn't happen. I didn't shoot. So 3 + me/por = 5. Technically 4 is possible if a living redirector exists although I find 5 more likely.

[Mehdi2277]

Either way 4/5 at least one kill that would be expected didn't occur.

As for protection targets I personally would have chosen Titan if I was a doc. I may disagree with them on some reads, but they do push quite a bit and be clear where they are.

P-edit: It wasn't decided, that was just one idea. I personally think a second scum redirector isn't as likely as simply having 5 kills that can be shot.

[Mehdi2277]

Although redirector could have changed the target died and that could just cover it. I honestly don't remember who Por wanted to shoot n1, but if it was who he likely shot n2 then why redirect if it was on someone not on your scum team.

P-edit: Well want to respond to the doc part? Assuming 4 what kill do you think was blocked?

[Mehdi2277]

Loaded words don't really help much. Again the slip was I was skimming or didn't remember what I thought read properly.

[Mehdi2277]

And titan you're voting who again? I'm fine with an avox lynch, but why not vote him then if you want it?

[Mehdi2277]

Bumi claim.

I'm assuming you'd respond no, but there's no point in claiming if they're not going to be lynched. I don't want mae lynched.

[Mehdi2277]

Do you think having people claim in general is good? I don't which is why I'm against mae claiming unless he's actually going to be lynched.

[Mehdi2277]

Mae same opinion on me still? You realize I could easily have let the wagon kill you if I desired.

[Mehdi2277]

I honestly don't trust dgb at all at this point. I wouldn't oppose her as a lynch, but she's not a preference. Brood/Av work best (then let me shoot the other).

[Mehdi2277]

Vifam for a person who can argue they're confirmed town you could push the lynch you want more besides fate is wrong and mae isn't evil.

[Mehdi2277]

UNVOTE: Brood VOTE: Av

[Mehdi2277]

Dan why do you think fate is mafia? So far I just find him a bit more apathetic to the game.

[Mehdi2277]

Since av has more votes then brood and unlike you I don't think mae is scum nor are you likely to convince me to change there.

P-edit: I could follow it. And bt who's my two/three person pool?

[Mehdi2277]

If vifam wants you dead that badly because you're a strong town role he could just night kill you. Much easier and less dealing with I pushed a mislynch of a great pr (which already attracts night kills so why soft claim, but not hard claim it).

[Mehdi2277]

I was voting brood. I noticed av had a bigger wagon and suspect them similar amounts. I swapped. Make sense?

Who did you think is scum besides mae then? That and last time my kill wasn't ever I'll shoot this person. First time I did it.

[Mehdi2277]

Honestly my reason was mainly tone. If you need else vote wise his malpa vote appeared first then later he actually justified it more then being vague (and in the vote itself he was saying he was doing it to look at top lynch candidates) and strength of conviction for malpa scum when the vote was first just looking at who people want to lynch, looking at top lynch candidates when considering cheery and others were still being pushed then it wasn't that hard to just continue where he wanted to go, posts like 1820 and 1831 feel useless, part of 1912 dealing with word usage, don't post if you're V/LA is awful, etc.

[Mehdi2277]

Honestly my reason was mainly tone. If you need else vote wise his malpa vote appeared first then later he actually justified it more then being vague (and in the vote itself he was saying he was doing it to look at top lynch candidates) and strength of conviction for malpa scum when the vote was first just looking at who people want to lynch, looking at top lynch candidates when considering cheery and others were still being pushed then it wasn't that hard to just continue where he wanted to go, posts like 1820 and 1831 feel useless, part of 1912 dealing with word usage, don't post if you're V/LA is awful, etc.

[Mehdi2277]

I'm still more curious on how soft claiming great role scum need to kill isn't worse then just hard claiming. Either he has a strange role like quadz's last upick that needs to not claim or he should just claim. First isn't too likely to me.

[Mehdi2277]

I suspect him.

Tomorrow

I think he's using town's best power.

Now what could have caused this transition without much of an explained reason for him in between?

[Mehdi2277]

Fate if you vote AV and he flips town you can have my vote for the rest of the game as long as I'm not voting myself, mae, titan, dan, or S&R (basically people I think are town and add sanity + mae who's just town) along with priority control kill wise (same list of people I won't vote for not killing). Kill control I'm letting occur to. Really don't think this is AV as a PR. Him being apathetic as pr doesn't fit for trying to be scummy if he wants to live when he's claimed it and it doesn't fit if he's trying to be town but have votes that just seem to change with little transition and convictions that change pretty quickly.

[Mehdi2277]

I can say I think I was defending mae before the wagon got big so it wasn't that.

Currently av, brood, fate, dgb, and philla I don't trust. Sanjay I don't mind currently. I think his play so far is fine and it's mainly just his slot that was bad although cE didn't say that much either. Shinori is likely town for the strange vanilla claim. Trust Sr/buld/titan/mae/dan. Bumi/ald less so but currently they're fine. Rest null (zeta was town too for day 2 play but that's become little play today).

[Mehdi2277]

Oh and add vifam to trust.

Fate I wouldn't want to lynch currently though since of the people I don't trust I still suspect him least.

[Mehdi2277]

I believe avox is at 9/10 votes.

[Mehdi2277]

Fate if you vote AV and he flips town you can have my vote for the rest of the game as long as I'm not voting myself, mae, titan, dan, or S&R (basically people I think are town and add sanity + mae who's just town) along with priority control kill wise (same list of people I won't vote for not killing). Kill control I'm letting occur to. Really don't think this is AV as a PR. Him being apathetic as pr doesn't fit for trying to be scummy if he wants to live when he's claimed it and it doesn't fit if he's trying to be town but have votes that just seem to change with little transition and convictions that change pretty quickly.

Fate no comment on this?

[Mehdi2277]

Buld if the brood vote was based on my push there can you switch to av (or why not av?).

[Mehdi2277]

Because of...

[Mehdi2277]

So laziness means 0 conviction with votes? Look at who he's voted and how he's acted tonally as if he's pretty confident with the read but still ends up swapping with little transition. There's a reason that isn't laziness. Or why claim a pr if he doesn't want to full claim. I doubt it's a role that gets hurt by being full claimed and he's already made scum want to night kill him.

[Mehdi2277]

It's called confidence av will flip scum.

[Mehdi2277]

AV that deal still works and as for you dying I still have a gun. I'm still currently happy with this lynch considering who you suspect and that somehow fate is still good to sheep. The game would be a lot quieter with dan, S&r, and vifam dead.

[Mehdi2277]

Av he did post something similar for the mae wagon (called I'll write a case later). And you had 3/4 more votes then mae by the time he switched.

[Mehdi2277]

Next why do you want me to take that deal anyway? You don't even have me on your scum list. You're not trying to fos me much yet you want me to be lynched if you somehow flip town. No, I'm not going to stop pushing you because you said that.

[Mehdi2277]

How am I trying to scuttle away. I'm saying I'm pretty willing to shoot you so I think that should be enough to say I still think you're scum (plus I won't stop pushing you).

[Mehdi2277]

It's called another reason I want to kill you. Unless that sounded like me thinking you're town. I'd rather lynch you now then have to wait til night.

[Mehdi2277]

How does that make a difference for you being scum? Best I can see is you claiming someone from the opposite scum team shot me if they actually did.

Bold is kind of stupid, but sure.

If you flip town I'll vote myself and let myself be lynched.

[Mehdi2277]

Voting mae is even more stupid though.

[Mehdi2277]

AV I won't touch you for one day and night. Then either day 4 you have something worth saying, are dead by the other scum team, or I'll tunnel you to death.

UNVOTE: Av VOTE: Brood

[Mehdi2277]

Honestly my reason was mainly tone. If you need else vote wise his malpa vote appeared first then later he actually justified it more then being vague (and in the vote itself he was saying he was doing it to look at top lynch candidates) and strength of conviction for malpa scum when the vote was first just looking at who people want to lynch, looking at top lynch candidates when considering cheery and others were still being pushed then it wasn't that hard to just continue where he wanted to go, posts like 1820 and 1831 feel useless, part of 1912 dealing with word usage, don't post if you're V/LA is awful, etc.

That's the reason for the brood lynch.

[Mehdi2277]

Fate, dgb, brood, and Philla is the current pool of vig shots. One of those 4 should be lynched today.

[Mehdi2277]

Mae the blunt version is I can't see ever getting me lynched so I'd recommend either treating me like town or just focus on pushing whoever you're on. Av isn't the push for now though.

[Mehdi2277]

Until day 4 yes where either you change my mind with the rest of your play today and action or I go back to fosing you. Currently I don't see s&r or dan as scum. You trusting fate makes that lynch a pain to do together. What's your opinion on dgb, philla, and brood?

[Mehdi2277]

Day 2 maybe when I first gave the town read on him (one of my first posts when I replaced in). Remind how scum motivated his push on me is when I'm one of the few who trusts him. And remind me that the scum slip that's been repeated is still stupid.

[Mehdi2277]

Zdenek I currently have as null. Explain why he should be scum vs null and sure I'll consider him as a kill target.

UNVOTE: Brood VOTE: Fate

[Mehdi2277]

Maenara something told me they were town (specifically I think they're first post of the day that short wall that outside of xtoph doesn't really just follow other people nor does the later back and forth look scum flailing or trying to stay hidden).

Add in who she's fosing and how she's voting which doesn't seem like she's trying to make her votes look great. She's tunneling me, but voting you so either she's really dumb scum or just fosing me instead of voting since she can't get my lynched. The slip is still dumb. Her play outside of it has had a lot of people call her scummy, but I think cheery was the only one who could write a case (from an iso for a game with this many posts where I could make a scum case on myself) with most of the points being fairly weak.

[Mehdi2277]

Ald the likelihood of me reading day 1 is a bit low. Saying her day 1 play is awful and she's lived til now and that it's hard to find much else to actually have someone attack her with besides the slip and besides just calling it scummy?

Av vifam town is mainly because I actually think he's shown more sanity then several of you plus his reads and mine match fairly close.

Ald is primarily his reads and reasoning to explain them. One example of that is when I asked him on his town read of me and how he responded.

I'm willing to change to Philla if that wagon actually grows.

P-edit: I could make a ton of excuses. Skimming, tired (I know I read some of the pages for games past 1AM often), etc. What's scummy in it besides lack of reading comprehension which I disagree is scummy. I'd think scum would be a bit more careful when it comes to voting or care how their voting looks to at least do more then just glance or forget what's being said about the person they're voting.

[Mehdi2277]

I give up. Mae is going to be tunneled forever like this and it's not worth dealing with (that and I'm already a major kill target). Fine the real reason is I know she's town and have known it for a while. I can kill every night, but I'm not sure if I want to clarify how I know she's town besides saying role reasons. I can full claim the rest of my role if people think it's ideal but what I've claimed so far is true just I haven't revealed everything and letting scum wonder how powerful I am has some benefits (plus me full claiming in full reveals a bit of info I don't see why it should be said currently). I didn't think I can become anymore desirable of a scum kill anyway since it sounds like with you watching me that scum already are likely to shoot me. At least you watching me should protect me.

I'm also sad that by the looks of it few or none of you caught on to that. I thought my defending her that excessively since the start should be a sign to good players that I know she's town.

And now that she's town by claim (or if you still think she's scum vote me) any comments? Sanjay being trusted more is connected to this since why defend her. Fate being the weakest and strange scum read is the same reason. Fate/Sanjay/Me/vifam were the only ones to really defend her early on. Or how about people heavily scum reading her? I don't care if her play was bad, but the wagon was definitely a pain to deal with.

[Mehdi2277]

Bumi catching on and most of the rest of you not is also a bit sad since he's only been in this game for day 3.

[Mehdi2277]

When did you catch on, bumi?

[Mehdi2277]

Zdenek plus the people I mentioned before are all people that can be consolidated on.

I'd also recommend if we have a JK to target mae or vifam since they both have innos (well xtoph hinted one on vifam). Doc go target Av. Av night action shouldn't be blocked by a JK.

[Mehdi2277]

They can try. It's a vague plan. Av is watching me so that should be my protection. Av needs protection of some kind but shouldn't be stunned so JK on him is a no. Vifam/mae are both decent protection with innos on them (although I admit mae's weak play might keep him alive so he can be used for PoE later on).

[Mehdi2277]

Really jk just means any protection role non doc. Assuming we have one normal doc in this big game + some other protection role that'd work fine for now. Sadly malpa dead does hurt JK chances (especially without any JK cc).

[Mehdi2277]

Main update. Mae is town because of my role stuff and anyone on that wagon should disperse now. Other update is Av claimed odd night watcher.

Depends really. I've stayed up til 4 AM more then once (and have stayed up all night a few times in the summer). I've woke up as late as 3 PM sometimes because of it. I'm in central time. Funny thing was during black flag where you said reg was town for posting late I was looking at mafia during 4 something -5 something AM working on OS's long thor case.

[Mehdi2277]

His laziness isn't only for town him as shown by market place mafia. I'd enjoy knowing why he's town if you can remember.

P-edit: Mae's on that list titan.

[Mehdi2277]

To go means be lynched/killed or be removed from the lynch. Last page has me basically saying I know he's town by role stuff.

[Mehdi2277]

Malp

Avox
Phill
Broodking

Maenara

Malp flipped town. Av claimed odd watcher. Mae is town by way of me. Brood/phil are good lynches/vig kills.

[Mehdi2277]

Remind me why sanjay defended mae when it would have been an easy mislynch to get if he was scum. As for vifam xtoph hinted to an innocent on him.

[Mehdi2277]

cE's play was scummy so he's not too bad of a lynch. Currently though brood and philla are ideal.

[Mehdi2277]

Yes I'm sure. I'm not giving to reveal what I know about mae unless people deem it wise.

[Mehdi2277]

Can someone explain why Sanjay > Brood or Philla? He's not bad, but at the same time seeing him go first I don't really like.

[Mehdi2277]

Well guns are at least nice to use for others. Now consolidating on someone decent works best. VOTE: Sanjay

[Mehdi2277]

I'll shoot in my pool of 4. Mainly because I don't want to make the target obvious.

[Mehdi2277]

No I didn't shoot n1. I would have if I hadn't been lazy reading. At this point I still haven't read most of day 1.

As for check cheery I couldn't. I'm leaning towards just full claiming since what you're thinking of my role is likely wrong.

Wagon wise again I'd rather consolidate on brood, but at this point I just don't want to be dispersed everywhere. Titan would you switch to brood (same question to everyone voting sanjay right now).

[Mehdi2277]

Wagon wise again I'd rather consolidate on brood, but at this point I just don't want to be dispersed everywhere. (same question to everyone voting sanjay right now).

Which includes s&r.

[Mehdi2277]

Not sure what that means (assuming why swap), but if the assumption is right since currently I have brood as a strong scum read (reasons found before) and sanjay to be better for his own play even if his predecessor hurts the slot.

[Mehdi2277]

Tammy you're creeping me out tonally. Brood who's on your list is the one.

[Mehdi2277]

Well it's going along as I read so I'll end up reading the flips fully later anyway. And explain how pasche looks scummy for x is bad?

From where I'm at other read wise is town on titan, xtoph (primarily for 262), nika's slot, and deas. Saw some discussion on vifam but so far weak town read.

Mehdi - if you had role related reasons tht made maenara for sure town from night one, why didn't maenara shoe up in your reads list at the start of day two here? This post comes after deasvail voted maenara and AD said she could be black scum.

I could have, but the point would have been? I gave myself a reason to town read mae soon after that when I saw her posting, but I didn't want the town read to look like it was for role reasons before I decided to claim.

Tammy she's mod confirmed town to me.

[Mehdi2277]

Since I'm either scum using the night kill to only shoot suspected people, a SK who vig claimed for no good reason day 2, or I'm a vig. That and it's something awesome called being town read. Games are so much more fun that way.

[Mehdi2277]

And I'd like to know what these roles that discover someone is town while telling them are? Most investigation or other roles that can find out someone's town don't tell that person they're town (mason being the main exception).

[Mehdi2277]

Me + mae + bumi + dan + S&r + buld + titan + BT

Anyone you'd argue for/against town block wise?

[Mehdi2277]

I want vifam there too, but he's more split.

[Mehdi2277]

AV depends on his play for tomorrow, but thinking I'm leaning to let him in. For now I don't want (although having vote with us is always good) him in but a day later that could be changed. Forgot nacho and currently his play has been actually fairly strange. Not bad, just odd gut wise. Choices he's making while explainable still seem weird. Wouldn't want him in it.

UNVOTE: Sanjay VOTE: Brood If that block is formed let's see how well it works (that and sanjay's reaction isn't bad at all to getting that many votes).

[Mehdi2277]

Specifically a. he didn't lurk, b. he's responding continually and staying with his line of thought, c. he's scum hunting not defending too much, d. he's not taking into account viability of a lynch at the moment with his scum hunting. D and B are the main ones.

[Mehdi2277]

I think he'd be more opportunistic as scum with his life on the line not attack someone who isn't going to be lynched. Interestingly I gave that reason for mae town too so that's one other townie who did something similar today when being voted a lot.

[Mehdi2277]

Zdenek vote brood. Mae is confirmed town according to me. Vifam is hinted town. Beyond that a lot of arguing and reads discussion.

[Mehdi2277]

Actually bumi/bt what do you think on shi on the block? His vanilla claim day 2 felt pretty genuine.

[Mehdi2277]

They're best in a game this size. You don't trust brood. Vote him. I've said why so either argue the why or swapping works well.

[Mehdi2277]

Brood offense:

Honestly my reason was mainly tone. If you need else vote wise his malpa vote appeared first then later he actually justified it more then being vague (and in the vote itself he was saying he was doing it to look at top lynch candidates) and strength of conviction for malpa scum when the vote was first just looking at who people want to lynch, looking at top lynch candidates when considering cheery and others were still being pushed then it wasn't that hard to just continue where he wanted to go, posts like 1820 and 1831 feel useless, part of 1912 dealing with word usage, don't post if you're V/LA is awful, etc.

As for sanjay defense:

Specifically a. he didn't lurk, b. he's responding continually and staying with his line of thought, c. he's scum hunting not defending too much, d. he's not taking into account viability of a lynch at the moment with his scum hunting. D and B are the main ones.

[Mehdi2277]

It's a town voting block. Not a great player voting block. If it was the second fate/dgb/nacho would all be one pretty quickly. Wutloski has coasted a pretty good amount in my opinion. Mae is clear. Bumi and buld I trust.

[Mehdi2277]

If it can get votes controlled even if most of the decision is by the better players it works.

[Mehdi2277]

Wutloski and nacho I won't agree on ranking. Rest sure.

brood
phil
sanjay

[Mehdi2277]

To clarify on I don't want nacho/wutloski in the town block deciding who we're voting.

[Mehdi2277]

Icon joke towards zdenek.

[Mehdi2277]

I did already. Aradia Megido. Flavor can be found somewhere day 2 (it's incomplete, but what's given is true).

[Mehdi2277]

Dgb and nacho aren't on it (well some arguments have appeared for them, but I still disagree nor is it really a majority wanting them).

[Mehdi2277]

Which is why she's ignorable town. I gave up and claimed for a reason. I honestly don't think she'd have lived without my claim even with my defense.

[Mehdi2277]

Slowly liking zdenek more. We'll agree to disagree on Sanjay I guess. For now whoever gets the most votes with that ranking system is where the town block votes. I'll leave my vote on Brood for now, but if sanjay gets the most votes then I'll switch later.