Kingmaker II-Game Over
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.Permanent V/LA.-
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So? I'm not arguing whether or not it's helpful (that's another debate). I'm arguing that I'm clearly NOT trying to stay under the radar. That, in and of itself, is a ludicrous claim made by someone just trying to stir up suspicion.Machiavellian-Mafia wrote:
You can draw all the attention you want and still be very unhelpful for the town, it's called lurking in plain sight.Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.Vote: MOSPermanent V/LA.-
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You'd better hope I become King soon, then. I'm not afraid of the big bad vote. If the King decides to execute me, so be it. I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.Yosarian2 wrote:
Well, I won't "deal with" you not voting. The only thing voting does in this game is give pro-town people information. It gives both the king and the kingmaker direct, easy to find and interpret information about who most of the town finds scummy and who most of the town trusts at any given point in time, both of which are absolutly vital to the town's chances of winning the game. It gives us a clear, easy to follow record of what you think, have thought, and have done during the course of the game. It lets us see who voted for who, when, and why.Mastermind of Sin wrote:@PJ, #2C) Deal with it.
Voting gives the town information the town NEEDS to have, and without the normal risks of speedlynches or accidental hammers or such. So refusing to vote is actually an even MORE anti-town action in this game then it would be in a normal game, because in a normal game scum have some solid reasons to vote; here, they have less.
So I think at this point I'm going to continue voting for you, MOS, until you make at least one vote.Permanent V/LA.-
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Nope. It's not antitown, either. It's just how I feel. And I don't feel like voting. Also, I'm not assuming that your opinion is meaningless, I justYosarian2 wrote:Mastermind of Sin wrote:
You'd better hope I become King soon, then. I'm not afraid of the big bad vote. If the King decides to execute me, so be it. I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.
Can you actually make any kind of argument why you not voting is helpful to the town?
And I don't know why you're assuming the opinion of the people who don't like your "plan" to never vote is meaningless. For one thing, our current king has already said he is going to take votes into account when making a list of people he'd consider executing. For another, making multiple people wonder why you're acting in an apparently anti-town way is bad because you never know who will be king tommorow.don't. For those of you skimmers who use votes to keep track of shit, then you can assume that I find no one scummy, if it makes you happy. If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.carePermanent V/LA.-
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So basically, you admit to contradicting yourself but you don't care. Got it.Twomz wrote:MoS, the big red letters and repeated bringing up of your post was meant to counteract that happening. You will be watched if I have anything to say about it... so be forewarned *shakes finger*.
Shadowlurker... try not to assume anything in mafia. But, even if the king is scum, there's nothing he can do except try to hurt the town, or hide himself under the position.Permanent V/LA.-
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Glad I saw you two trying to play MBL's 5% into something a little bigger than that by reinforcing the idea in everyone's minds.Ameliaslay wrote:
My sentiments precisely.Vaughn wrote:
Glad I'm not the only one who saw that.MrBuddyLee wrote:
Good stuff. I 95% believe your sincerity in making that statement. I 5% think you should be strapped to a lightning rod and tasered for trying to subtly brainwash us into thinking you're town.PJ wrote:It's actually kinda nice knowing the strategies scum will probably try in this game, because I already spent last game trying to think of them. It's pretty interesting being on the other side of the fence this time, I will be curious to see the strategies scum try to use after the game is over.Permanent V/LA.-
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so? Does it look like I'm trying to make myself look protown?Yosarian2 wrote:
Yes, we can keep track of what you have said without you voting, but it will be harder, and it'll be harder to tell when something was a big deal to you and when you were just making observations. In any case, it'd be damn hard for a king to figure out what the town is thinking without people voting. Let's say you say "Yos is looking scummy", then 5 pages later say "Glork is looking scummy", then later you say "Ameliaslay, you just misrepresented Yosarian". Now think of everyone in the town saying things like that but not voting. Do you really think any king would be able to get an idea of what the town in general thought? Would anyone really feel the need to defend themself?Mastermind of Sin wrote: Nope. It's not antitown, either. It's just how I feel. And I don't feel like voting. Also, I'm not assuming that your opinion is meaningless, I justdon't. For those of you skimmers who use votes to keep track of shit, then you can assume that I find no one scummy, if it makes you happy. If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.care
Voting costs the town nothing, and it gives all kinds of useful information that will help us catch scum. Therefore, voting is a pro-town action.Permanent V/LA.-
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I don't have to care what you think to play mafia...spectrumvoid wrote:Box. I'm not buying the newbieness. Playing on emotion is a scum-tell. Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell. Giving up is a scum-tell.vote: cardb0ardb0x.
MMOS: no one is asking for you to conform to anybody. All we're asking is for you to vote. If you don't use your vote, we won't know what we're thinking. If you don't care, why the heck are you playing mafia? And why do we have to take notes on what you say? Pro-town players should make an effort to help the town obviously.
FOS: Ameliaslay and Vaughn for trying to overplay what MBL said about PJ.
I meant that I won't comment on the differences between the previous game and this one since I wasn't in it.
As for the notes, a) they'll help you be a better player, and b) since people are complaining that it'll be harder to track my suspicions, if you take notes it'll be easierPermanent V/LA.-
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Wow, you're so full of shit. Clearly you didn't take my advice and actuallyMachiavellian-Mafia wrote:MOS wrote:I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.MOS wrote:If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.
It's kind of interesting that you keep saying everyone needs to read your posts and take notes to find out who you suspect, yet you have not written about any suspicions in any of your posts yet.MOS wrote:I don't have to care what you think to play mafia...
As for the notes, a) they'll help you be a better player, and b) since people are complaining that it'll be harder to track my suspicions, if you take notes it'll be easierreadmy posts.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.Mastermind of Sin wrote:
So? I'm not arguing whether or not it's helpful (that's another debate). I'm arguing that I'm clearly NOT trying to stay under the radar. That, in and of itself, is a ludicrous claim made by someone just trying to stir up suspicion.Machiavellian-Mafia wrote:
You can draw all the attention you want and still be very unhelpful for the town, it's called lurking in plain sight.Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.Vote: MOSMastermind of Sin wrote:
So basically, you admit to contradicting yourself but you don't care. Got it.Twomz wrote:MoS, the big red letters and repeated bringing up of your post was meant to counteract that happening. You will be watched if I have anything to say about it... so be forewarned *shakes finger*.
Shadowlurker... try not to assume anything in mafia. But, even if the king is scum, there's nothing he can do except try to hurt the town, or hide himself under the position.
Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Glad I saw you two trying to play MBL's 5% into something a little bigger than that by reinforcing the idea in everyone's minds.Ameliaslay wrote:
My sentiments precisely.Vaughn wrote:
Glad I'm not the only one who saw that.MrBuddyLee wrote:
Good stuff. I 95% believe your sincerity in making that statement. I 5% think you should be strapped to a lightning rod and tasered for trying to subtly brainwash us into thinking you're town.PJ wrote:It's actually kinda nice knowing the strategies scum will probably try in this game, because I already spent last game trying to think of them. It's pretty interesting being on the other side of the fence this time, I will be curious to see the strategies scum try to use after the game is over.Permanent V/LA.-
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dying is funYosarian2 wrote:I don't really see how trying to tie people together is a scum tell anyway; it's a perfectly reasonable way of trying to find scum.
It was not all that clear from those posts that you suspected those people, MOS. Just because I disagree with a point someone makes does not automatically mean I suspect them. And it's still not clear which one you suspect more, and your posts are certanly not going to put any pressure on any of them or get them to respond or defed themselves in any way, and it didn't even get me to take a closer look at them or anything like that, so I must say that as a scum-hunting technique, your one-liner responses without votes seems pretty worthless.Mastermind of Sin wrote: Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.
If you're not going to vote, you should at least "fos" or something, and I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to even just clearly state "I am currently suspicious Twomz". Do you really think everyone is going to sit down and pore through every one of your posts to try to get some kind of hint as to what MOS might or might not be thinking?
I don't see how the way you're playing here could possibly help the town in any way, or how it could possibly find scum. Especally in a game where the town has no information roles, if you're not going to help the town find scum during the day, you're going to have to die.Permanent V/LA.-
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care to clarify why he isn't?spectrumvoid wrote:MOD: I voted for phoebus, but it isn't in the vote count. Sometime Sept 16/.
Phoebus seems more scummy. Someone said that he didn't post for some time, but that's not true. He posted a vote. I agree he still seems scummy.
I believe PJ is protown. His frustration sounds genuine. One question though: did you know this was mountainous when you signed up? (I sympathise with you over points 3-4. *pats*)
While Glork's comments are irritating, I'm not sure they show that he's scummy. It sounds more like someone being immature.
MMOS: care to clarify why box is protown?Permanent V/LA.-
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I think you're confusing yourself. I'm the one who said he was protown. I'm asking you to explain why he isn't protown. By your own logic, my request was indeed logical, so you should tell me why he's scummy.spectrumvoid wrote:Wow. I really should start learning from PJ. In most games, after page 10 or so I usually make some big mistake. I finally went to read Kingmaker I, and I admire his analysis.
MMOS: Everyone is assumed to be protown until he/she does something that makes him look scummy. That's the way mafia works. Or else I could jsut go around randomly accusing anyone for the entire game. So the onus is on you to explain why he's scummy, not for me to show why he's town.
Argh... I didn't realise Fritz was here. He's on my blacklist of weird players.Permanent V/LA.-
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umm, how is that even possible on a forum game? Are you playing with like 4 people?cardb0ardb0x wrote:
lol kind of, i'm used to entire games taking sometime over half an hour, as opposed to half a year... and it must kind of stink to spend 14 days deliberating and end up lynching a townie...Ameliaslay wrote:
Getting antsy for it to be night?cardb0ardb0x wrote:Umm... 1 newbie question. How long are days/nights expected to take in an online mafia game? And yeah, FoSes and votes are kinda different, even though the rules of kingmaker don't specifically state so.Permanent V/LA.-
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We have a LOE?MrBuddyLee wrote:unvote everyone, vote: Channel Delibird
I don't get an ounce of scumminess from bird/Phoebus's posts yet, just laziness and weirdness. I don't groove on some of the suspicions CDB expresses, and I'll go into detail on those in another post soon. I also want to evaluate pabs because he's said some weird shit.
I think even though we've got a LOE we should still all keep commenting on people off the list. I'll do a full reread and post tonight if possible.
Saying someone is not scummy because of something they did != Saying they can't be scummy. It's a negative declaration (that is, he's saying that this action can't be construed to make them scummier, but it doesn't make them innocent, either)spectrumvoid wrote:I don't like the way box specially picked out that comment of pablito's to accuse pablito of implying he's a mason. There have been many (way too many) other totally weird comments that some people have said in this game that I can't make sense of.
I am more-or-less satisfied with pablito's latest post explaining his actions. And sounvote: pablito
MBL: I don't get why you're saying that people who are lazy and weird cannot be scum.
Sounds awkward.MrBuddyLee wrote:he's scum trying to pro-town.Permanent V/LA.-
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PJ, don't execute Phoebus. You'll regret it. He's definitely protown. Just because people don't like the way he's playing doesn't make him antitown. I've played with Phoebus as both scum and town, and this is different from either, so him acting differently is not a scumtell. I'm more inclined to believe he's town BECAUSE of the way he's acting. You're better off executing bird.Permanent V/LA.-
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Sorry, I didn't mean laying low as in not posting. I just meant that he wasn't garnering much suspicion/attention. The whole comment was aimed at Twomz anyways. You were already on the list, hence why I asked to have Twomz put up on the list next to you (It's an alphabetical list )Thok wrote:
You're seriously claiming that I've been "lying low"? I've already been in arguments with Ameliaslay, Vaughn, Pablito, and now you. I believe the only people with more posts in this game than me are Glork and pablito.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Also, anyone who is voting a lot of people but has no one voting them is suspect in my book. That means they're spreading suspicion around while laying low enough that no one is really watching them. Add Twomz to the list right next to Thok tyvm.
Also, using votes as a criterion for whether somebody has been picking up/spreading suspicions seems suspect coming from you, given that you've specifically chosen not to vote. If you'd actually have backed up your "gut" with votes, you'd currently be voting at least four people (possibly more depending on how one interpreted your past history), while only having one on you.
So what if I'd have at least 4 votes if I was voting? I said I'd tell people my suspicions without voting and I am. And I DO have a vote on me, so there is at least one person who definitely suspects me.
No one has to listen to what I'm saying, I'm just telling you who I think is probably scum. If you don't listen to me, too bad. If you do, good for you. I just figured that since Phoebus is definitely not a good choice for execution today, I should proactively help in finding alternatives instead of just bitching about people wanting to execute him.Permanent V/LA.-
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Then why are you saying Phoebus is scummy, if not because his playstyle is wierd?spectrumvoid wrote:I don't get MOS reasons for 'clearing' Phoebus. He says Phoebus has played differently in other games when he's scum or town... We aren't saying Phoebus is scummy because of his difference in playstyle compared to his other games.
Also, MOS sounds like he's accusing random people. Again, giving a crap reason, 'gut'.
I went back as promised. I think bird and Phoebus are currently tied... both are unhelpful, the only thing is I don't like Phoebus's responses too.
"gut" is NOT a crap reason. Gut is not a reason at all. It is merely an announcement that you don't have hard factual reasons for someone to be scum, but you still have this feeling that they are probably scum, so instead of searching for crap reasons to justify it, you admit it by saying it's a gut feeling, becausethat's what it really is. It's not a crap reason at all.Permanent V/LA.-
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I think his play is this game is generally different from his play as both scum and town. By itself, i think that his play shows that he's a protown player who doesn't particularly want to think much on Day 1, but came into the game knowing the kind of responses he'd get to that kind of play. That's what I've read out of his responses.petroleumjelly wrote:Oh, thank goodness, at least I have three more days to think about this. I'm pretty busy tonight, so I can't post much...
MoS, could you please explain what makes you think Phoebus is town? I don't recall ever having played with Phoebus, and I frankly cannot set aside time to look over all of his games to determine his 'normal playstyle'. I only vaguely recall one game I have read with him in it (Gotham City) where he was generally unhelpful (until it came time to lynch the unnightkillable townie), and pressed people almost primarily on 'scum-tells'. He was scum in that game, and I am really not seeing what differentiates his play in this game from that game (granted, I have not read Gotham City for quite a while, so my memory may be skewed).
My main bone with Phoebus is that his "gut votes" just happened to be done while hopping on the largest bandwagons. Gut votes, in my experience, are often used to strike out in an odd direction (such as, if I were to vote somebody who has not been under much suspicion [say, Thok] on the basis of 'gut'). Gut votes which simply add to somebody who has already been suspicious (and against people whoalreadyhave cases presented against them) do not sit with me, especially when the same person does it onfour people. I am more than willing to consider what you are saying, but I am going to need more basis than "I will regret it" and "he is always unhelpful" (severely paraphrased).
Also, even Thok said Phoebus is probably protown, so you shouldn't execute him.Permanent V/LA.-
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That's exactly my point. the fact that he's playing differently does not in and of itself point towards a particular alignment, but if you look at the particular playstyle he's using, while it may not be optimal protown play, there are earmarks here and there that point to him being protown, as I've already pointed out.spectrumvoid wrote:Why 'even Thok'?
Sorry about that, I meant to say you need good reasons for accusing someone. (My defence: vote counts are so confusing this game... I went by tone of posts instead of vote numbers )
Well, yes, his play could be different. But different play does not = scum or = town, it's just a matter of playstyle, not alignment.Permanent V/LA.-
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Then why are you voting me, and not him? Clearly you are more inclined to believe I'm scum and he's town than vice versa.Thok wrote:
I didn't say that Phoebus's play suggests that he is protown; I said that the interaction of his play with yours suggests that it's not the case that both of you are scum. I am not ready yet to rule out the case that your scumdar is just off.Mastermind of Sin wrote:
That's exactly my point. the fact that he's playing differently does not in and of itself point towards a particular alignment, but if you look at the particular playstyle he's using, while it may not be optimal protown play, there are earmarks here and there that point to him being protown, as I've already pointed out.spectrumvoid wrote:Why 'even Thok'?
Sorry about that, I meant to say you need good reasons for accusing someone. (My defence: vote counts are so confusing this game... I went by tone of posts instead of vote numbers )
Well, yes, his play could be different. But different play does not = scum or = town, it's just a matter of playstyle, not alignment.Permanent V/LA.-
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I only said that because people complained about not being able to read me because I'm not voting. Everyone else is voting, and I already know where I stand, so the comment didn't apply to me.Glork wrote: *SMACK* MoS for Post 405. For someone who's justifying his not-voting in part by telling people to read the entire game/thread carefully, he's not doing a very good job of it himself.Permanent V/LA.-
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That's because DGB was the only person in my scumgroup that could efficiently investigate people for me. I needed those investigations, so I had to stick my neck out to keep her alive for longer even though I knew it would get me in trouble. Even with what went down, I think we had a good chance at winning if not for random shit that happened afterwards.Glork wrote:
One thing about this.... the only time I can recall watching MoScum extensively was CoOps Mafia, in which he defended DGB near the beginning of her implosion. Though you say you wouldn't expect MoS to blatantly defend a scumbuddy, I've seen it in person. It's a distinct possibility.PJ wrote:My problem is that I am trying to understand why MoS would defend Phoebus for reasons I don't even understand, and for reasons I think do absolutely nothing in making me think Phoebus is pro-town. If MoS is scum, I seriously doubt he would defend his partner so blatantly and so poorly (WIFOM, blah blah, I know). If MoS is town, then he might actually be on to something, and I am just plain not understanding what he is getting at. (Of course, he could easily be town and completely wrong, in which case I will have to thwack him over the head later).
What possible reason could I have for thinking Phoebus was more important than myself in my scumgroup, unless the mafia in this game have a bunch of special power abilities? What could I hope to gain by sticking my neck out on Day 1, knowing that once one of us died and was revealed as scum, the other would probably be executed in the near future? This isn't the sort of situation where sticking my neck out to give a scumbuddy one extra day will mean the difference between winning the game and losing it.
I would have no reason to do this except for the express purpose of trying to wifom you into thinking I wasn't scum with him, but the wifom would only come into full effect AFTER he died and was revealed as scum, so you get into the big circle of logic and points that make my head hurt, so I'm not gonna bother trying to type it all out. It's really up to you to spin the wheel of circular logic and pick a place to stop.Permanent V/LA.-
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What more reason do I need? I already explained that I felt this was somewhat normal for Phoebus and that I disagreed with the evaluation of bird's play. I hardly call that giving NO reason. Perhaps if you explained what you expected me to say, that would help, yes?StallingChamp wrote:Ok, have a bit for now (re-reading Day 2, made it up to Pooky and Glork's argument about "bandwagonning in kingmaker is tech")
Vote: Pooky, Fritz, MoS
All three have not posted much content at all. I realize I haven't been the most active poster either, but they are much more experienced than me, and so I expect more from them. If they are always like this, I might withdraw my vote but I have never played with them. Can someone confirm or deny if this fots their normal playstyle?
Specifically, I dislike Pooky for post 570, and dont like his insuing debate with Gork either. To be honest, when I read it first, I read it as a general statement, NOT meaning specifically in this Day of this game.
MoS has also made me worry about him, because twice now (bird and Pheobus) has he come out and instructed the King not to execute someone under large fire without giving reasons for his defense of them. Again, if this is normal, please tell me.
This is all I have time for at the moment, I will finish my re-read later this weekend and comment further then.Permanent V/LA.-
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* kill MoS for calling everyone correctly the night before he exposes the rest of your teamMrBuddyLee wrote: Why are none of the useless people on the execution list? This is a Mountainous game ffs. My scumteam won Himalayan with the following strategy:
* lie low
* express balanced suspicions of safe targets
* keep lurkers and noncontributors around to endgame to cast suspicion on later
And you wonder why I'm not being as helpful at pwning the scum inthisMountainous game?Permanent V/LA.-
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I don't think I was ever annoyed at you, although perhaps it was something so minor that I don't even remember it anymore. I just feel that your contributions this game have the earmark of Yoscum, so I'm putting the MoS Stamp of Approval on that part of the LOE.Yosarian2 wrote:Care to give any actual reason for that, MOS? Or are you just still annoyed that I attacked you day 1?Permanent V/LA.-
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*eyes glazed over*CrashTextDummie wrote:Quote fest ahoy!
placing my vote = bringing it to the King's attentionZindaras wrote:
Why not? I mean, it doesn't have to be begging, but you can try to bring it to the King's attention.I voiced my opinion, I placed my vote. What else do you expect me to do? Come begging to the king whenever I feel a player hasn't posted enough, so he may do something about it?
What's so hard to understand about that?
Because his excessive lurking warranted a vote. Duh.Zindaras wrote:
Then why did you vote him? Prods nor votes were really helping.It should also be noted that there's a difference between not posting at all for a while and posting every once in a while and saying nothing of susbtance in the process. It has already been proven in this game that prodding ubertimmy does not result in him posting any useful content.
I place my vote where I feel it belongs. Whether or not it helps is unfortunately out of my hands.
I don't need to have an extensive case on someone in order to voice my suspicion on them. I appreciate your little fantasy about catching all the scum in one fellow swoop, but it's too ambitious for your own good. I can tell that you're wrong about at least one of the the trees you're barking up on. Right now I think you're barking up on the wrong entire forest.Zindaras wrote:You could not make an extensive case on PJ? I mean, really, you think PJ is scum, you vote him, but you can't make a big case on him, even if he's been arguably the most prolific player Day One?
It would take a colossal blunder from someone like PJ for me to nail him on Day 2 of a mountainous game. What he did was not damning, but it was enough for me to be suspicious of him at the beginning of Day 2, and I voted accordingly, in a post that was longer and more thorough than the one you keep referencing, I assure you. It was lost in the crash, so I reposted a condensed version of it. Tell me what's scummy about that.
3/4 of the players in this game are not doing what you're asking of me. Why exactly do you single me out?Zindaras wrote:
Yes, you are correct. But you need to do more than just that. Pointing out scummy posts is not enough. You need to keep focusing attention on the players, ask them questions, be inquisitive.I really hope you are joking here, but pointing out scummy posts and voting accordingly is what a pro-town player is supposed to do. You did it yourself when you declared me scummy for one post I made. If I were able to make a detailed case against someone on D2 shortly after a significant number of posts have been lost, this game would be a lot easier.
Because Rosso was town and executed under what I consider to be very dubious circumstances, that makes PJ more likely to be scum, yes.Zindaras wrote:So, because Rosso was town, PJhasto be scum?
I'd appreciate it if you stopped acting like I was desperately trying to get PJ executed. You're the one who pushes BS cases like your like depended on it.
Please go back and look at Rosso's posts and tell me he deserved to be lynched over them. He's generally not the easiest fellow to read, but at the very least, he wasn't giving off bad vibes. At worst, you could say he was typical Rosso, which rarely tells you anything about his allignment.I think PJ was just under a lot of pressure, from the deadline and from himself, and that made him screw up.
PJ knows Rosso. I really can't picture pro-town PJ going over his posts at the last minute and thinking that he's more deserving of an execution than any other player in the game.
That's just lovely. You can't comment on what SC said (which is quite correct), but for some reason you insist that me picking up on it is hugely scummy.Zindaras wrote:I can't comment on what SC said, since it was lost in the crash, before I got in this game, but it seems like a weak case altogether.
I'm sure you went over the abundance of posts that speak for StallingChamp while you were at it. I have to say, Zindaras, you're exhibiting some extreme double standards in this game.Zindaras wrote:The difference is that I've looked at all your other posts and found nothing in there that speaks for you.
You're awfully fond of ubertimmy, aren't you? If my votes weren't "useful" in your opinion, I'm sure you'll agree that they weren't harmful either, correct?What made your vote on ubertimmy useful, exactly?
You have made it perfectly clear by now that you don't agree with any of my votes, I get it. But I still haven't seen an argument for why they are scummy.
And if it's any comfort to you, I don't think yours are that hot either.
I don't consider it my job to make perfect cases so that the king may pick off all the scum one by one, because I'm not dilusional. I'm trying to contribute as best as I can and I will continue to point out what I believe to be scummy actions or players along the way, whether you like it or not.Zindaras wrote:You can make cases against whoever you want to. If they are good, the King will consider them and listen to you.
I generally don't make big big cases unless it's a good one and I am confident I have caught a scum. I can't say yet whether you're even trying to catch scum, but I can tell that your cases aren't good ones. At the very least, this makes me seriously doubt your judgement.
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I think I already answered Yos' questions, but I'm gonna go back and do a reread in the next couple of days anyway. I'll post my thoughts on a couple of players when I get there.
Can you give me a 2 sentence summary of what you said? I might actually know what that was about, then -_-Permanent V/LA.-
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I take offense to this. I would argue that I generally DO make arguments (outside of scumchat) and present reasoning why I think someone is scum. This game is an exception. Perhaps if you could link me to other games where I have exhibited this behavior, it would lend weight to your claim, because i certainly don't remember doing something like this often.Yosarian2 wrote:
Agreed. His posts so far look very pro-town to me.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:LuckayLuck: I expect he’s not scum from the sheer number of players he’s marked off as townie to highly townie, I would expect a scum player to mark off fewer townies in order to keep more viable lynch candidates around. I also don’t believe he’s working to get people to not suspect him by saying he thinks they are townie because he’s simply cast too many of those connections.
I still don't like his "I won't vote" stance, and he hasn't done as much as I would like this game, but he has committed to strong non-logical stances on several people, just flatly declaring that cardboardbox, PJ, and Phoebus were town for no apparent reason. This actually is pretty typical behavior from a pro-town MOS, he often "goes on gut", is absolulty convinced he's right, gives no arguments to back himself up, and then is frustrated no one listens to him. I'll take another look at him later if some of the people he's defended turn out to be scum, but for now, I'm slightly leaning towards him being pro-town. Want to hear more from him though, and it'd be nice if he'd answer my questions (such as "who would be on your LOE right now if you were king?").PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: Mastermind of Sin
He starts off by saying he’s never going to vote till he’s King, certainly something I’d expect from MoS, it doesn’t really change whether he’s more or less likely to be scum because this guy honestly doesn’t care about what role he is when he does things, if he wants to do it, he’ll do it regardless of which side he’s on.
He honestly doesn’t say very much this game, he doesn’t push very hard for the people he thinks are guilty or defend adamantly the people he thinks are innocent. Basically he won’t be saying much, this is type of behaviour is more in line with general MoS behaviour, he will pursue it regardless of alignment. I’m more willing to put him in my townie column because I’ve just seen so many games where MoS psuedolurks through and will defend his lurkish strategy.
Agreed.Pooky wrote: Mert
The guy doesn’t really say much of substance, I can say the same thing for plenty of players so far. The easiest way for scum to hide is to stay within the current, when they see most players lurk, they will follow along and do the same.
In general, I like Pooky's analysis posts so far, his logic is quite similar to what I've been thinking, and he's moved up to about neutral in my eyes (he was around "slighly scummy" before, back during the pre-crash bird wagon).Permanent V/LA.-
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Glork, if I cared whether or not I died, I would hardly be playing like this. My response about the Mountainous game was a joke, but you clearly didn't pick up on that. I hardly see how I am "flip-flopping" my position. Agreeing that your analysis seems right and agreeing with an argument that makes you seem to be scum are not opposite events. It's entirely possible for you to bus a scumbuddy and make a logical sounding argument while being scum, Glork. The fact that you would suggest that the realization of such an occurrence is considered "flip-flopping" just makes me more certain that you are the play today.
As far as bird goes, i didn't have quite the same thinking as LL. I merely felt that it would be beneficial to hear a little more from him before we got rid of him, give him a chance to redeem himself and convince me he's not scum, since I wasn't suspicious enough to want him gone yet.
ROFL. I honestly want you to try and explain how changing your mind is an inherently scummy action. This should be good. When further evidence is presented for or against a person, said evidence has the ability to sway the minds of other players either in support or attack of said person. This is hardly uncommon, nor is it particularly scummy. As the day wore on and Pooky failed to show any signs that he could be protown, I became more willing to put him on the priority lynch list.
Wow Glork. You almost had me believing I'd done something scummy for a second there. Then I actually read the quote about Yos's clarification questionin context, something your subquote in the link failed to do. I didn't say that his scummy actions were minor or forgotten, but that whatever it was (and I still haven't bothered to figure it out, because it's not really relevant) that hadannoyedme was minor or forgotten. That's a completely different meaning than what you are implying with the format of your analysis.
You know, I'm feeling good enough that I think I'll even take the bait on this little tidbit, since I don't really care if it makes me look scummier. I have a little question for you, Glork. When's the last time that Pooky was considered a typical scum player? Just wondering .*NOTE: In Pooky's big huge analysis, he says that he is "more willing to put him in my townie column" due to MoS' behavior. In a game waaaay back a while ago (I forget which one, but I can find and cite it if anybody cares that much), I said something like this: "A scumbag who's giving opinions on everyone is most likely to place a 'mostly neutral, though leaning towards pro-town' label on a scumbuddy." Pooky might have done this here, with MoS.
I thought I already explained the voting tell. Out of context (using just the vote count), someone who has placed a lot of votes without receiving many themselves seems to be flying under the radar or not really garnering much attention, in part because they have spread their suspicions around so much that they aren't really committing to making concerted attacks on any particular people. I figured that early game, that was as good a tell as I was going to get.Permanent V/LA.-
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