Kingmaker II-Game Over

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #39 (isolation #0) » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:34 pm

And now begins my masterful plan of finally playing through an entire game without voting. Unless I become king, lol.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #64 (isolation #1) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:08 am

@PJ, #2C) Deal with it.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #103 (isolation #2) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:49 am

I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #119 (isolation #3) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:42 am

Machiavellian-Mafia wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.
You can draw all the attention you want and still be very unhelpful for the town, it's called lurking in plain sight.
Vote: MOS

So? I'm not arguing whether or not it's helpful (that's another debate). I'm arguing that I'm clearly NOT trying to stay under the radar. That, in and of itself, is a ludicrous claim made by someone just trying to stir up suspicion.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #121 (isolation #4) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:44 am

Yosarian2 wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:@PJ, #2C) Deal with it.
Well, I won't "deal with" you not voting. The only thing voting does in this game is give pro-town people information. It gives both the king and the kingmaker direct, easy to find and interpret information about who most of the town finds scummy and who most of the town trusts at any given point in time, both of which are absolutly vital to the town's chances of winning the game. It gives us a clear, easy to follow record of what you think, have thought, and have done during the course of the game. It lets us see who voted for who, when, and why.

Voting gives the town information the town NEEDS to have, and without the normal risks of speedlynches or accidental hammers or such. So refusing to vote is actually an even MORE anti-town action in this game then it would be in a normal game, because in a normal game scum have some solid reasons to vote; here, they have less.

So I think at this point I'm going to continue voting for you, MOS, until you make at least one vote.

You'd better hope I become King soon, then. I'm not afraid of the big bad vote. If the King decides to execute me, so be it. I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #125 (isolation #5) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:43 am

Yosarian2 wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:
You'd better hope I become King soon, then. I'm not afraid of the big bad vote. If the King decides to execute me, so be it. I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.

Can you actually make any kind of argument why you not voting is helpful to the town?

And I don't know why you're assuming the opinion of the people who don't like your "plan" to never vote is meaningless. For one thing, our current king has already said he is going to take votes into account when making a list of people he'd consider executing. For another, making multiple people wonder why you're acting in an apparently anti-town way is bad because you never know who will be king tommorow.

Nope. It's not antitown, either. It's just how I feel. And I don't feel like voting. Also, I'm not assuming that your opinion is meaningless, I just

don't

care

. For those of you skimmers who use votes to keep track of shit, then you can assume that I find no one scummy, if it makes you happy. If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #129 (isolation #6) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:34 pm

Twomz wrote:MoS, the big red letters and repeated bringing up of your post was meant to counteract that happening. You will be watched if I have anything to say about it... so be forewarned *shakes finger*.

Shadowlurker... try not to assume anything in mafia. But, even if the king is scum, there's nothing he can do except try to hurt the town, or hide himself under the position.

So basically, you admit to contradicting yourself but you don't care. Got it.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #132 (isolation #7) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:00 pm

Thok, you should fix your siggy. You need quotes around hiab's name.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #136 (isolation #8) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:25 pm

Ameliaslay wrote:
Vaughn wrote:
MrBuddyLee wrote:
PJ wrote:It's actually kinda nice knowing the strategies scum will probably try in this game, because I already spent last game trying to think of them. It's pretty interesting being on the other side of the fence this time, I will be curious to see the strategies scum try to use after the game is over.
Good stuff. I 95% believe your sincerity in making that statement. I 5% think you should be strapped to a lightning rod and tasered for trying to subtly brainwash us into thinking you're town.
Glad I'm not the only one who saw that.
My sentiments precisely.

Glad I saw you two trying to play MBL's 5% into something a little bigger than that by reinforcing the idea in everyone's minds.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #150 (isolation #9) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:19 pm

Yosarian2 wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote: Nope. It's not antitown, either. It's just how I feel. And I don't feel like voting. Also, I'm not assuming that your opinion is meaningless, I just
don't
care
. For those of you skimmers who use votes to keep track of shit, then you can assume that I find no one scummy, if it makes you happy. If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.
Yes, we can keep track of what you have said without you voting, but it will be harder, and it'll be harder to tell when something was a big deal to you and when you were just making observations. In any case, it'd be damn hard for a king to figure out what the town is thinking without people voting. Let's say you say "Yos is looking scummy", then 5 pages later say "Glork is looking scummy", then later you say "Ameliaslay, you just misrepresented Yosarian". Now think of everyone in the town saying things like that but not voting. Do you really think any king would be able to get an idea of what the town in general thought? Would anyone really feel the need to defend themself?

Voting costs the town nothing, and it gives all kinds of useful information that will help us catch scum. Therefore, voting is a pro-town action.

so? Does it look like I'm trying to make myself look protown?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #151 (isolation #10) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:21 pm

spectrumvoid wrote:Box. I'm not buying the newbieness. Playing on emotion is a scum-tell. Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell. Giving up is a scum-tell.
vote: cardb0ardb0x.

MMOS: no one is asking for you to conform to anybody. All we're asking is for you to vote. If you don't use your vote, we won't know what we're thinking. If you don't care, why the heck are you playing mafia? And why do we have to take notes on what you say? Pro-town players should make an effort to help the town obviously.

FOS: Ameliaslay and Vaughn for trying to overplay what MBL said about PJ.

I meant that I won't comment on the differences between the previous game and this one since I wasn't in it.

I don't have to care what you think to play mafia...

As for the notes, a) they'll help you be a better player, and b) since people are complaining that it'll be harder to track my suspicions, if you take notes it'll be easier

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #168 (isolation #11) » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:15 am

Machiavellian-Mafia wrote:
MOS wrote:I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.

MOS wrote:If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.

MOS wrote:I don't have to care what you think to play mafia...

As for the notes, a) they'll help you be a better player, and b) since people are complaining that it'll be harder to track my suspicions, if you take notes it'll be easier
It's kind of interesting that you keep saying everyone needs to read your posts and take notes to find out who you suspect, yet you have not written about any suspicions in any of your posts yet.

Wow, you're so full of shit. Clearly you didn't take my advice and actually

read

my posts.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Machiavellian-Mafia wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm amused by the lengths Twomz is going to to insinuate that I'm trying to stay under the radar. If I was trying to stay under the radar, why the hell would I inform you that I plan to never vote this game unless I become king? That's counterproductive, since the very statement draws attention to this fact.
You can draw all the attention you want and still be very unhelpful for the town, it's called lurking in plain sight.
Vote: MOS
So? I'm not arguing whether or not it's helpful (that's another debate). I'm arguing that I'm clearly NOT trying to stay under the radar. That, in and of itself, is a ludicrous claim made by someone just trying to stir up suspicion.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Twomz wrote:MoS, the big red letters and repeated bringing up of your post was meant to counteract that happening. You will be watched if I have anything to say about it... so be forewarned *shakes finger*.

Shadowlurker... try not to assume anything in mafia. But, even if the king is scum, there's nothing he can do except try to hurt the town, or hide himself under the position.
So basically, you admit to contradicting yourself but you don't care. Got it.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Ameliaslay wrote:
Vaughn wrote:
MrBuddyLee wrote:
PJ wrote:It's actually kinda nice knowing the strategies scum will probably try in this game, because I already spent last game trying to think of them. It's pretty interesting being on the other side of the fence this time, I will be curious to see the strategies scum try to use after the game is over.
Good stuff. I 95% believe your sincerity in making that statement. I 5% think you should be strapped to a lightning rod and tasered for trying to subtly brainwash us into thinking you're town.
Glad I'm not the only one who saw that.
My sentiments precisely.
Glad I saw you two trying to play MBL's 5% into something a little bigger than that by reinforcing the idea in everyone's minds.

Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #184 (isolation #12) » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:03 pm

MrBuddyLee wrote:Vaughn's failure to lurk is a stark difference from last game. He's prolly town.

Vaughn lurks as town, too

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #192 (isolation #13) » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:51 am

Yosarian2 wrote:I don't really see how trying to tie people together is a scum tell anyway; it's a perfectly reasonable way of trying to find scum.

Mastermind of Sin wrote: Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.
It was not all that clear from those posts that you suspected those people, MOS. Just because I disagree with a point someone makes does not automatically mean I suspect them. And it's still not clear which one you suspect more, and your posts are certanly not going to put any pressure on any of them or get them to respond or defed themselves in any way, and it didn't even get me to take a closer look at them or anything like that, so I must say that as a scum-hunting technique, your one-liner responses without votes seems pretty worthless.

If you're not going to vote, you should at least "fos" or something, and I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to even just clearly state "I am currently suspicious Twomz". Do you really think everyone is going to sit down and pore through every one of your posts to try to get some kind of hint as to what MOS might or might not be thinking?

I don't see how the way you're playing here could possibly help the town in any way, or how it could possibly find scum. Especally in a game where the town has no information roles, if you're not going to help the town find scum during the day, you're going to have to die.

dying is fun

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #201 (isolation #14) » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:40 am

I believe PJ is protown.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #208 (isolation #15) » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:14 pm

box is protown. Not very intelligent, it seems, but protown.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #210 (isolation #16) » Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:51 pm

spectrumvoid wrote:
MOD: I voted for phoebus, but it isn't in the vote count. Sometime Sept 16/
.

Phoebus seems more scummy. Someone said that he didn't post for some time, but that's not true. He posted a vote. I agree he still seems scummy.

I believe PJ is protown. His frustration sounds genuine. One question though: did you know this was mountainous when you signed up? (I sympathise with you over points 3-4. *pats*)

While Glork's comments are irritating, I'm not sure they show that he's scummy. It sounds more like someone being immature.

MMOS: care to clarify why box is protown?

care to clarify why he isn't?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #212 (isolation #17) » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:08 am

Then why was PJ made king day 1? He can't be made king again until there are 7 people left, if he's still alive.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #214 (isolation #18) » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:43 am

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #219 (isolation #19) » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:02 am

spectrumvoid wrote:Wow. I really should start learning from PJ. In most games, after page 10 or so I usually make some big mistake. I finally went to read Kingmaker I, and I admire his analysis.

MMOS: Everyone is assumed to be protown until he/she does something that makes him look scummy. That's the way mafia works. Or else I could jsut go around randomly accusing anyone for the entire game. So the onus is on you to explain why he's scummy, not for me to show why he's town.

Argh... I didn't realise Fritz was here. He's on my blacklist of weird players.

I think you're confusing yourself. I'm the one who said he was protown. I'm asking you to explain why he isn't protown. By your own logic, my request was indeed logical, so you should tell me why he's scummy.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #238 (isolation #20) » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:30 pm

:goodposting:

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #240 (isolation #21) » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:39 am

<3 Phoebus

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #264 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:24 am

I have a bad feeling about Glork. Just a hunch, but

IGMEOY: Glork

You better be on your best behavior, son.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #266 (isolation #23) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:45 am

cardb0ardb0x wrote:
Ameliaslay wrote:
cardb0ardb0x wrote:Umm... 1 newbie question. How long are days/nights expected to take in an online mafia game? And yeah, FoSes and votes are kinda different, even though the rules of kingmaker don't specifically state so.
Getting antsy for it to be night?
lol kind of, i'm used to entire games taking sometime over half an hour, as opposed to half a year... and it must kind of stink to spend 14 days deliberating and end up lynching a townie...

umm, how is that even possible on a forum game? Are you playing with like 4 people?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #283 (isolation #24) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 pm

Glork wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I have a bad feeling about Glork. Just a hunch, but
IGMEOY: Glork
You better be on your best behavior, son.
Best behavior my ass.

YOU HAVE NOTHING ON ME!

I have Amelia on you! Pictures, at least >_>

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #286 (isolation #25) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:14 pm

Wanna see? They are teh awexome.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #300 (isolation #26) » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:24 am

To use Glork's way of putting it:

Whoa, kids, it's only page 12. You're a bit antsy for that LoE, buds.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #302 (isolation #27) » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:33 am

leave everyone open so the scumbaggos can't fade into the background.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #306 (isolation #28) » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:16 am

If you want to know who he thinks is scummy, read his posts...he's been outlining his suspicions and placing votes to make it easier, even.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #324 (isolation #29) » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:49 pm

phoebus is too awesome to be scum yet.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #392 (isolation #30) » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:11 am

Apparently. That's dumb.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #405 (isolation #31) » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:58 am

MrBuddyLee wrote:
unvote everyone, vote: Channel Delibird

I don't get an ounce of scumminess from bird/Phoebus's posts yet, just laziness and weirdness. I don't groove on some of the suspicions CDB expresses, and I'll go into detail on those in another post soon. I also want to evaluate pabs because he's said some weird shit.

I think even though we've got a LOE we should still all keep commenting on people off the list. I'll do a full reread and post tonight if possible.

We have a LOE?

spectrumvoid wrote:I don't like the way box specially picked out that comment of pablito's to accuse pablito of implying he's a mason. There have been many (way too many) other totally weird comments that some people have said in this game that I can't make sense of.

I am more-or-less satisfied with pablito's latest post explaining his actions. And so
unvote: pablito

MBL: I don't get why you're saying that people who are lazy and weird cannot be scum.

Saying someone is not scummy because of something they did != Saying they can't be scummy. It's a negative declaration (that is, he's saying that this action can't be construed to make them scummier, but it doesn't make them innocent, either)

MrBuddyLee wrote:he's scum trying to pro-town.

Sounds awkward.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #416 (isolation #32) » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:56 am

PJ, don't execute Phoebus. You'll regret it. He's definitely protown. Just because people don't like the way he's playing doesn't make him antitown. I've played with Phoebus as both scum and town, and this is different from either, so him acting differently is not a scumtell. I'm more inclined to believe he's town BECAUSE of the way he's acting. You're better off executing bird.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #417 (isolation #33) » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:57 am

You should also consider executing one of Thok, Ubertimmy, or Yosarian2. I bet at least one of them is scum.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #419 (isolation #34) » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:08 am

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #421 (isolation #35) » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:11 pm

Also, anyone who is voting a lot of people but has no one voting them is suspect in my book. That means they're spreading suspicion around while laying low enough that no one is really watching them. Add Twomz to the list right next to Thok tyvm.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #424 (isolation #36) » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:02 pm

Thok wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Also, anyone who is voting a lot of people but has no one voting them is suspect in my book. That means they're spreading suspicion around while laying low enough that no one is really watching them. Add Twomz to the list right next to Thok tyvm.
You're seriously claiming that I've been "lying low"? I've already been in arguments with Ameliaslay, Vaughn, Pablito, and now you. I believe the only people with more posts in this game than me are Glork and pablito.

Also, using votes as a criterion for whether somebody has been picking up/spreading suspicions seems suspect coming from you, given that you've specifically chosen not to vote. If you'd actually have backed up your "gut" with votes, you'd currently be voting at least four people (possibly more depending on how one interpreted your past history), while only having one on you.

Sorry, I didn't mean laying low as in not posting. I just meant that he wasn't garnering much suspicion/attention. The whole comment was aimed at Twomz anyways. You were already on the list, hence why I asked to have Twomz put up on the list next to you (It's an alphabetical list

)

So what if I'd have at least 4 votes if I was voting? I said I'd tell people my suspicions without voting and I am. And I DO have a vote on me, so there is at least one person who definitely suspects me.

No one has to listen to what I'm saying, I'm just telling you who I think is probably scum. If you don't listen to me, too bad. If you do, good for you. I just figured that since Phoebus is definitely not a good choice for execution today, I should proactively help in finding alternatives instead of just bitching about people wanting to execute him.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #432 (isolation #37) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:00 am

<3 Phoebus. This is exactly why he shouldn't be executed today. Look at the way he's posting. It has obvious marks of a protown person who was prepared to play this way, at least for Day 1. I would know because I've done it before.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #434 (isolation #38) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:39 am

spectrumvoid wrote:I don't get MOS reasons for 'clearing' Phoebus. He says Phoebus has played differently in other games when he's scum or town... We aren't saying Phoebus is scummy because of his difference in playstyle compared to his other games.

Also, MOS sounds like he's accusing random people. Again, giving a crap reason, 'gut'.

I went back as promised. I think bird and Phoebus are currently tied... both are unhelpful, the only thing is I don't like Phoebus's responses too.

Then why are you saying Phoebus is scummy, if not because his playstyle is wierd?

"gut" is NOT a crap reason. Gut is not a reason at all. It is merely an announcement that you don't have hard factual reasons for someone to be scum, but you still have this feeling that they are probably scum, so instead of searching for crap reasons to justify it, you admit it by saying it's a gut feeling, because

that's what it really is

. It's not a crap reason at all.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #438 (isolation #39) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:59 pm

spectrumvoid wrote: I stand by point that 'gut' is a bad reason. You should have good reasons for voting someone.

I'm not voting anyone, am I?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #439 (isolation #40) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:01 pm

petroleumjelly wrote:Oh, thank goodness, at least I have three more days to think about this. I'm pretty busy tonight, so I can't post much...

MoS, could you please explain what makes you think Phoebus is town? I don't recall ever having played with Phoebus, and I frankly cannot set aside time to look over all of his games to determine his 'normal playstyle'. I only vaguely recall one game I have read with him in it (Gotham City) where he was generally unhelpful (until it came time to lynch the unnightkillable townie), and pressed people almost primarily on 'scum-tells'. He was scum in that game, and I am really not seeing what differentiates his play in this game from that game (granted, I have not read Gotham City for quite a while, so my memory may be skewed).

My main bone with Phoebus is that his "gut votes" just happened to be done while hopping on the largest bandwagons. Gut votes, in my experience, are often used to strike out in an odd direction (such as, if I were to vote somebody who has not been under much suspicion [say, Thok] on the basis of 'gut'). Gut votes which simply add to somebody who has already been suspicious (and against people who
already
have cases presented against them) do not sit with me, especially when the same person does it on
four people
. I am more than willing to consider what you are saying, but I am going to need more basis than "I will regret it" and "he is always unhelpful" (severely paraphrased).

I think his play is this game is generally different from his play as both scum and town. By itself, i think that his play shows that he's a protown player who doesn't particularly want to think much on Day 1, but came into the game knowing the kind of responses he'd get to that kind of play. That's what I've read out of his responses.

Also, even Thok said Phoebus is probably protown, so you shouldn't execute him.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #445 (isolation #41) » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:33 am

Yosarian2 wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote: I'm not voting anyone, am I?

Hey, his wording, not mine

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #446 (isolation #42) » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:36 am

spectrumvoid wrote:Why 'even Thok'?

Sorry about that, I meant to say you need good reasons for accusing someone. (My defence: vote counts are so confusing this game... I went by tone of posts instead of vote numbers )

Well, yes, his play could be different. But different play does not = scum or = town, it's just a matter of playstyle, not alignment.

That's exactly my point. the fact that he's playing differently does not in and of itself point towards a particular alignment, but if you look at the particular playstyle he's using, while it may not be optimal protown play, there are earmarks here and there that point to him being protown, as I've already pointed out.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #452 (isolation #43) » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:04 pm

Thok wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:
spectrumvoid wrote:Why 'even Thok'?

Sorry about that, I meant to say you need good reasons for accusing someone. (My defence: vote counts are so confusing this game... I went by tone of posts instead of vote numbers )

Well, yes, his play could be different. But different play does not = scum or = town, it's just a matter of playstyle, not alignment.
That's exactly my point. the fact that he's playing differently does not in and of itself point towards a particular alignment, but if you look at the particular playstyle he's using, while it may not be optimal protown play, there are earmarks here and there that point to him being protown, as I've already pointed out.
I didn't say that Phoebus's play suggests that he is protown; I said that the interaction of his play with yours suggests that it's not the case that both of you are scum. I am not ready yet to rule out the case that your scumdar is just off.

Then why are you voting me, and not him? Clearly you are more inclined to believe I'm scum and he's town than vice versa.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #456 (isolation #44) » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:55 am

Because he also has a personal issue with Vaughn, since he had already asked for him to be executed.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #463 (isolation #45) » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:23 pm

Glork wrote: *SMACK* MoS for Post 405. For someone who's justifying his not-voting in part by telling people to read the entire game/thread carefully, he's not doing a very good job of it himself.

I only said that because people complained about not being able to read me because I'm not voting. Everyone else is voting, and I already know where I stand, so the comment didn't apply to me.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #467 (isolation #46) » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:11 pm

cardb0ardb0x wrote:why hasn't ubertimmy said anything? by the way, is there any particular reason why his avatar is pretty much the same as shadowlurker's?

It's the other way around.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #489 (isolation #47) » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:22 pm

Just don't kill Phoebus

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #515 (isolation #48) » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:27 pm

Glork wrote:
PJ wrote:My problem is that I am trying to understand why MoS would defend Phoebus for reasons I don't even understand, and for reasons I think do absolutely nothing in making me think Phoebus is pro-town. If MoS is scum, I seriously doubt he would defend his partner so blatantly and so poorly (WIFOM, blah blah, I know). If MoS is town, then he might actually be on to something, and I am just plain not understanding what he is getting at. (Of course, he could easily be town and completely wrong, in which case I will have to thwack him over the head later).
One thing about this.... the only time I can recall watching MoScum extensively was CoOps Mafia, in which he defended DGB near the beginning of her implosion. Though you say you wouldn't expect MoS to blatantly defend a scumbuddy, I've seen it in person. It's a distinct possibility.

That's because DGB was the only person in my scumgroup that could efficiently investigate people for me. I needed those investigations, so I had to stick my neck out to keep her alive for longer even though I knew it would get me in trouble. Even with what went down, I think we had a good chance at winning if not for random shit that happened afterwards.

What possible reason could I have for thinking Phoebus was more important than myself in my scumgroup, unless the mafia in this game have a bunch of special power abilities? What could I hope to gain by sticking my neck out on Day 1, knowing that once one of us died and was revealed as scum, the other would probably be executed in the near future? This isn't the sort of situation where sticking my neck out to give a scumbuddy one extra day will mean the difference between winning the game and losing it.

I would have no reason to do this except for the express purpose of trying to wifom you into thinking I wasn't scum with him, but the wifom would only come into full effect AFTER he died and was revealed as scum, so you get into the big circle of logic and points that make my head hurt, so I'm not gonna bother trying to type it all out. It's really up to you to spin the wheel of circular logic and pick a place to stop.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #550 (isolation #49) » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:00 am

Bird would be a good execution a day or two from now.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #672 (isolation #50) » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:28 pm

StallingChamp wrote:Ok, have a bit for now (re-reading Day 2, made it up to Pooky and Glork's argument about "bandwagonning in kingmaker is tech")

Vote: Pooky, Fritz, MoS

All three have not posted much content at all. I realize I haven't been the most active poster either, but they are much more experienced than me, and so I expect more from them. If they are always like this, I might withdraw my vote but I have never played with them. Can someone confirm or deny if this fots their normal playstyle?

Specifically, I dislike Pooky for post 570, and dont like his insuing debate with Gork either. To be honest, when I read it first, I read it as a general statement, NOT meaning specifically in this Day of this game.

MoS has also made me worry about him, because twice now (bird and Pheobus) has he come out and instructed the King not to execute someone under large fire without giving reasons for his defense of them. Again, if this is normal, please tell me.

This is all I have time for at the moment, I will finish my re-read later this weekend and comment further then.

What more reason do I need? I already explained that I felt this was somewhat normal for Phoebus and that I disagreed with the evaluation of bird's play. I hardly call that giving NO reason. Perhaps if you explained what you expected me to say, that would help, yes?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #693 (isolation #51) » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:43 am

OMG! Someone actually understands me!!! :O <3

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #732 (isolation #52) » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:56 am

Vacation until a week from monday

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #898 (isolation #53) » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:30 am

MrBuddyLee wrote: Why are none of the useless people on the execution list? This is a Mountainous game ffs. My scumteam won Himalayan with the following strategy:

* lie low
* express balanced suspicions of safe targets
* keep lurkers and noncontributors around to endgame to cast suspicion on later

* kill MoS for calling everyone correctly the night before he exposes the rest of your team

And you wonder why I'm not being as helpful at pwning the scum in

this

Mountainous game?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #899 (isolation #54) » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:42 am

Yosarian2 wrote:Care to give any actual reason for that, MOS? Or are you just still annoyed that I attacked you day 1?

I don't think I was ever annoyed at you, although perhaps it was something so minor that I don't even remember it anymore. I just feel that your contributions this game have the earmark of Yoscum, so I'm putting the MoS Stamp of Approval on that part of the LOE.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #926 (isolation #55) » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:15 am

CrashTextDummie wrote:Quote fest ahoy!

Zindaras wrote:
I voiced my opinion, I placed my vote. What else do you expect me to do? Come begging to the king whenever I feel a player hasn't posted enough, so he may do something about it?
Why not? I mean, it doesn't have to be begging, but you can try to bring it to the King's attention.
placing my vote = bringing it to the King's attention

What's so hard to understand about that?

Zindaras wrote:
It should also be noted that there's a difference between not posting at all for a while and posting every once in a while and saying nothing of susbtance in the process. It has already been proven in this game that prodding ubertimmy does not result in him posting any useful content.
Then why did you vote him? Prods nor votes were really helping.
Because his excessive lurking warranted a vote. Duh.

I place my vote where I feel it belongs. Whether or not it helps is unfortunately out of my hands.

Zindaras wrote:You could not make an extensive case on PJ? I mean, really, you think PJ is scum, you vote him, but you can't make a big case on him, even if he's been arguably the most prolific player Day One?
I don't need to have an extensive case on someone in order to voice my suspicion on them. I appreciate your little fantasy about catching all the scum in one fellow swoop, but it's too ambitious for your own good. I can tell that you're wrong about at least one of the the trees you're barking up on. Right now I think you're barking up on the wrong entire forest.

It would take a colossal blunder from someone like PJ for me to nail him on Day 2 of a mountainous game. What he did was not damning, but it was enough for me to be suspicious of him at the beginning of Day 2, and I voted accordingly, in a post that was longer and more thorough than the one you keep referencing, I assure you. It was lost in the crash, so I reposted a condensed version of it. Tell me what's scummy about that.

Zindaras wrote:
I really hope you are joking here, but pointing out scummy posts and voting accordingly is what a pro-town player is supposed to do. You did it yourself when you declared me scummy for one post I made. If I were able to make a detailed case against someone on D2 shortly after a significant number of posts have been lost, this game would be a lot easier.
Yes, you are correct. But you need to do more than just that. Pointing out scummy posts is not enough. You need to keep focusing attention on the players, ask them questions, be inquisitive.
3/4 of the players in this game are not doing what you're asking of me. Why exactly do you single me out?

Zindaras wrote:So, because Rosso was town, PJ
has
to be scum?
Because Rosso was town and executed under what I consider to be very dubious circumstances, that makes PJ more likely to be scum, yes.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped acting like I was desperately trying to get PJ executed. You're the one who pushes BS cases like your like depended on it.

I think PJ was just under a lot of pressure, from the deadline and from himself, and that made him screw up.
Please go back and look at Rosso's posts and tell me he deserved to be lynched over them. He's generally not the easiest fellow to read, but at the very least, he wasn't giving off bad vibes. At worst, you could say he was typical Rosso, which rarely tells you anything about his allignment.

PJ knows Rosso. I really can't picture pro-town PJ going over his posts at the last minute and thinking that he's more deserving of an execution than any other player in the game.

Zindaras wrote:I can't comment on what SC said, since it was lost in the crash, before I got in this game, but it seems like a weak case altogether.
That's just lovely. You can't comment on what SC said (which is quite correct), but for some reason you insist that me picking up on it is hugely scummy.

Zindaras wrote:The difference is that I've looked at all your other posts and found nothing in there that speaks for you.
I'm sure you went over the abundance of posts that speak for StallingChamp while you were at it. I have to say, Zindaras, you're exhibiting some extreme double standards in this game.

What made your vote on ubertimmy useful, exactly?
You're awfully fond of ubertimmy, aren't you? If my votes weren't "useful" in your opinion, I'm sure you'll agree that they weren't harmful either, correct?

You have made it perfectly clear by now that you don't agree with any of my votes, I get it. But I still haven't seen an argument for why they are scummy.

And if it's any comfort to you, I don't think yours are that hot either.

Zindaras wrote:You can make cases against whoever you want to. If they are good, the King will consider them and listen to you.
I don't consider it my job to make perfect cases so that the king may pick off all the scum one by one, because I'm not dilusional. I'm trying to contribute as best as I can and I will continue to point out what I believe to be scummy actions or players along the way, whether you like it or not.

I generally don't make big big cases unless it's a good one and I am confident I have caught a scum. I can't say yet whether you're even trying to catch scum, but I can tell that your cases aren't good ones. At the very least, this makes me seriously doubt your judgement.

----------

I think I already answered Yos' questions, but I'm gonna go back and do a reread in the next couple of days anyway. I'll post my thoughts on a couple of players when I get there.

*eyes glazed over*

Can you give me a 2 sentence summary of what you said? I might actually know what that was about, then -_-

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1019 (isolation #56) » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:38 am

Yosarian2 wrote:
PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:LuckayLuck: I expect he’s not scum from the sheer number of players he’s marked off as townie to highly townie, I would expect a scum player to mark off fewer townies in order to keep more viable lynch candidates around. I also don’t believe he’s working to get people to not suspect him by saying he thinks they are townie because he’s simply cast too many of those connections.
Agreed. His posts so far look very pro-town to me.

PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: Mastermind of Sin
He starts off by saying he’s never going to vote till he’s King, certainly something I’d expect from MoS, it doesn’t really change whether he’s more or less likely to be scum because this guy honestly doesn’t care about what role he is when he does things, if he wants to do it, he’ll do it regardless of which side he’s on.

He honestly doesn’t say very much this game, he doesn’t push very hard for the people he thinks are guilty or defend adamantly the people he thinks are innocent. Basically he won’t be saying much, this is type of behaviour is more in line with general MoS behaviour, he will pursue it regardless of alignment. I’m more willing to put him in my townie column because I’ve just seen so many games where MoS psuedolurks through and will defend his lurkish strategy.
I still don't like his "I won't vote" stance, and he hasn't done as much as I would like this game, but he has committed to strong non-logical stances on several people, just flatly declaring that cardboardbox, PJ, and Phoebus were town for no apparent reason. This actually is pretty typical behavior from a pro-town MOS, he often "goes on gut", is absolulty convinced he's right, gives no arguments to back himself up, and then is frustrated no one listens to him. I'll take another look at him later if some of the people he's defended turn out to be scum, but for now, I'm slightly leaning towards him being pro-town. Want to hear more from him though, and it'd be nice if he'd answer my questions (such as "who would be on your LOE right now if you were king?").

Pooky wrote: Mert
The guy doesn’t really say much of substance, I can say the same thing for plenty of players so far. The easiest way for scum to hide is to stay within the current, when they see most players lurk, they will follow along and do the same.
Agreed.

In general, I like Pooky's analysis posts so far, his logic is quite similar to what I've been thinking, and he's moved up to about neutral in my eyes (he was around "slighly scummy" before, back during the pre-crash bird wagon).

I take offense to this. I would argue that I generally DO make arguments (outside of scumchat) and present reasoning why I think someone is scum. This game is an exception. Perhaps if you could link me to other games where I have exhibited this behavior, it would lend weight to your claim, because i certainly don't remember doing something like this often.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1067 (isolation #57) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:25 am

I support either a Yos or Pooky execution, good finds, Glork. I'd still prefer Yos, though.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1074 (isolation #58) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:16 pm

MrBuddyLee wrote:
vote: MoS

<3

I love it when you attack me ^_^

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1149 (isolation #59) » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:52 am

SV, you missed that I was willing to see Pooky die, just thought Yos deserved it a little more.

Currently, however, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Glork is a good execution for today.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1171 (isolation #60) » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:46 pm

Glork, if I cared whether or not I died, I would hardly be playing like this. My response about the Mountainous game was a joke, but you clearly didn't pick up on that. I hardly see how I am "flip-flopping" my position. Agreeing that your analysis seems right and agreeing with an argument that makes you seem to be scum are not opposite events. It's entirely possible for you to bus a scumbuddy and make a logical sounding argument while being scum, Glork. The fact that you would suggest that the realization of such an occurrence is considered "flip-flopping" just makes me more certain that you are the play today.

As far as bird goes, i didn't have quite the same thinking as LL. I merely felt that it would be beneficial to hear a little more from him before we got rid of him, give him a chance to redeem himself and convince me he's not scum, since I wasn't suspicious enough to want him gone yet.

ROFL. I honestly want you to try and explain how changing your mind is an inherently scummy action. This should be good. When further evidence is presented for or against a person, said evidence has the ability to sway the minds of other players either in support or attack of said person. This is hardly uncommon, nor is it particularly scummy. As the day wore on and Pooky failed to show any signs that he could be protown, I became more willing to put him on the priority lynch list.

Wow Glork. You almost had me believing I'd done something scummy for a second there. Then I actually read the quote about Yos's clarification question

in context

, something your subquote in the link failed to do. I didn't say that his scummy actions were minor or forgotten, but that whatever it was (and I still haven't bothered to figure it out, because it's not really relevant) that had

annoyed

me was minor or forgotten. That's a completely different meaning than what you are implying with the format of your analysis.

*NOTE: In Pooky's big huge analysis, he says that he is "more willing to put him in my townie column" due to MoS' behavior. In a game waaaay back a while ago (I forget which one, but I can find and cite it if anybody cares that much), I said something like this: "A scumbag who's giving opinions on everyone is most likely to place a 'mostly neutral, though leaning towards pro-town' label on a scumbuddy." Pooky might have done this here, with MoS.

You know, I'm feeling good enough that I think I'll even take the bait on this little tidbit, since I don't really care if it makes me look scummier. I have a little question for you, Glork. When's the last time that Pooky was considered a typical scum player? Just wondering

.

I thought I already explained the voting tell. Out of context (using just the vote count), someone who has placed a lot of votes without receiving many themselves seems to be flying under the radar or not really garnering much attention, in part because they have spread their suspicions around so much that they aren't really committing to making concerted attacks on any particular people. I figured that early game, that was as good a tell as I was going to get.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1198 (isolation #61) » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:08 pm

Glork wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Glork, if I cared whether or not I died, I would hardly be playing like this. My response about the Mountainous game was a joke, but you clearly didn't pick up on that. I hardly see how I am "flip-flopping" my position. Agreeing that your analysis seems right and agreeing with an argument that makes you seem to be scum are not opposite events. It's entirely possible for you to bus a scumbuddy and make a logical sounding argument while being scum, Glork. The fact that you would suggest that the realization of such an occurrence is considered "flip-flopping" just makes me more certain that you are the play today.
The reason I choose to interpret your play as flip-flopping is partially because you won't give any explanations as to why you're saying what you do. In fact, at least twice, you've "become convinced" through someone else's argument that the town should take a certain action. That seems
VERY
flip-floppy to me.

Eh. I didn't ask you to believe what I say. I'm just telling you what I think, for the record, so that when I eventually die and am revealed as town you can use it. I'm not particularly concerned for my own well-being, and I'm not particularly interested in giving explanations for everything I say. Take it or leave it. If you would prefer, I can lurk and say nothing at all.

MoS wrote:As far as bird goes, i didn't have quite the same thinking as LL. I merely felt that it would be beneficial to hear a little more from him before we got rid of him, give him a chance to redeem himself and convince me he's not scum, since I wasn't suspicious enough to want him gone yet.
...alright, that's fair enough. Bird has since then been replaced by K-Scope. What do you think of Scopey?

Has Scope posted yet? I haven't noticed. I've been a bit distracted.

MoS wrote:ROFL. I honestly want you to try and explain how changing your mind is an inherently scummy action. This should be good. When further evidence is presented for or against a person, said evidence has the ability to sway the minds of other players either in support or attack of said person. This is hardly uncommon, nor is it particularly scummy. As the day wore on and Pooky failed to show any signs that he could be protown, I became more willing to put him on the priority lynch list.
Oh, come off it, MoS. I don't think that changing one's mind is scummy. I think that repeatedly throwing out new suspicions and suggestions, without any comment on your previous suspicions/inklings, without giving any reasoning whatsoever, and without . Don't pull this "I'm not scummy for changing my mind" shit with me. It's the entire way you've played so far. You're completely uncooperative, and you're not giving any of
us
a chance to figure out whether
you're
scum or not. I somewhat ignored your play early on, but now I'm starting to think that you have something to hide -- that you won't give any reasons for what you say or do since you don't want anybody connecting you to certain other players (read: your scumbuddies).

lol. See above.

MoS wrote:Wow Glork. You almost had me believing I'd done something scummy for a second there. Then I actually read the quote about Yos's clarification question
in context
, something your subquote in the link failed to do. I didn't say that his scummy actions were minor or forgotten, but that whatever it was (and I still haven't bothered to figure it out, because it's not really relevant) that had
annoyed
me was minor or forgotten. That's a completely different meaning than what you are implying with the format of your analysis.
Point conceded. I didn't read your response post carefully enough.

Thanks. Sorry about the...attitude, shall we call it. I wasn't in the best of moods at the time (not your fault, unrelated to the game).

MoS wrote:
*NOTE: In Pooky's big huge analysis, he says that he is "more willing to put him in my townie column" due to MoS' behavior. In a game waaaay back a while ago (I forget which one, but I can find and cite it if anybody cares that much), I said something like this: "A scumbag who's giving opinions on everyone is most likely to place a 'mostly neutral, though leaning towards pro-town' label on a scumbuddy." Pooky might have done this here, with MoS.
You know, I'm feeling good enough that I think I'll even take the bait on this little tidbit, since I don't really care if it makes me look scummier. I have a little question for you, Glork. When's the last time that Pooky was considered a typical scum player? Just wondering .
My experience with PookyScum thus far mainly stems from when we were scumbuddies in Goats Mafia. Pooky freely attacked people who were not in our scumgroup, but he largely ignored what happened with his scumbuddies (Aelyn/Romanus). Considering Pooky was attempting to make a "genuine analysis" on everybody in the game, he couldn't simply ignore you (or his other scumbuddies). So I've come to the conclusion that he likely kept opinions of most (if not all) of his scumbuddies in the neutral to seemingly-protown range.

So basically, MoS... yes, I do expect that Pooky would behave in a "typical" scum manner in this case.

Hmm. That doesn't really square up with how I've seen him as scum before, but I'll give it to you anyways. It's not like either of us is going to convince the other, since we've seen him in different games. Although it does beg the question of whether or not Pooky has seen the post you referred to, although this is another one of those things that people will probably laugh at and say it's not likely. But I thought I should point it out anyways for those of you that don't cast aside possibilities.

MoS wrote:I thought I already explained the voting tell. Out of context (using just the vote count), someone who has placed a lot of votes without receiving many themselves seems to be flying under the radar or not really garnering much attention, in part because they have spread their suspicions around so much that they aren't really committing to making concerted attacks on any particular people. I figured that early game, that was as good a tell as I was going to get.
Alright, I see where you are coming from. But I think that you've exhibited many of the same traits that you yourself consider(ed) scumtells.
Throughout Day One, only two people voted for you. You yourself had not garnered many votes.
Over the course of Day One, you expressed suspicions of or advocated executions of Twomz, AmeliaSlay, Vaughn, Glork, Thok, UberTimmy, and Yosarian2. You also asked that PJ execute Bird over Phoebus, but I'm willing to let that slide since you defended Phoebus so adamantly. Though you did not
vote
for anybody, it is evident that you threw out suspicions
all over the place.

When you were asked to clarify some of your points, you avoided answering the inquiries on more than one occasion. I've already noted these, yet you seem to have decided not to reply to them either. You are at least as guilty of "trying to stay under the radar" as Timmy, Thok, or Yosarian were, considering you blatantly
avoided
replying to people who had questions for you.
I really, really
REALLY
want to hear how you care to explain the fact that you can have the audacity to bring up a tell on Timmy/Thok/Yos while exhibiting the exact same tell yourself. I don't want any of this "But since I wasn't
voting
anybody, the tell doesn't apply to me" nonsense.

I hardly think that I was flying under the radar. I seem to recall getting in trouble for my stated style of play. I may have not gotten a lot of votes, but I certainly made myself noticed. It's possible that the others did as well, but I didn't see it, so it was worth pointing out at that time of the day.

Anyway, since you seem to have once again selected what you want to respond to, I'm going to quote a couple of things that I said/asked to which I want you to directly reply:
spectrumvoid wrote:Post 438 is an interesting one. Spectrumvoid says that MoS should provide reasons for how he votes, and MoS, instead of providing any reasons, chooses to harp on the semantics of her post by merely saying, "I'm not voting anybody." No, MoS isn't voting anyone; we're all well aware of that. But he has been making claims about who is scum(my) and who is not. In the absence of votes, reasons for suspicions are essential to decent pro-town play.
...
Spectrumvoid even clarifies that she wants him to give reasons for his accusations, and in his response (Post 446), he once again ignores the inquiry altogether. Instead, he chooses to repsond to her comment regarding Thok.

See above. I don't feel compelled to provide reasons for all my suspicions, and theatening me with death isn't going to make me more pliable. I'll post what I want to, when I want to. Deal with it.

Glork wrote:The big thing is that
MoS has not backed any of his claims or suspicions with any shred of evidence
.* He has either chosen not to respond, has said "Gut," or has said that he doesnt "need" to provide any further evidence or discussion. This is absolute crap. Players
do
need to provide evidence for their accusations.
Glork wrote:I have a question for you, MoS. If you lurk, don't provide any reasoning for your opinions, and play the "survival" game, how do you expect
anybody
to trust or believe you when the town approaches endgame?

Simple. I don't expect to reach endgame. However, I doubt any scum are going to kill me very soon, since I'm such an easy person to push for execution. I'll die eventually, if not today. *shrug*

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:30 am

I need to rethink my suspicions, I'm confused and in too many games at once. I'll try to get something together eventually.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1232 (isolation #63) » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:48 pm

Just because I don't feel like explaining some things doesn't mean I have to be consistent. I like being inconsistent. It's more fun

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1234 (isolation #64) » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:26 pm

Of course it does. Every time you can't figure out if someone is scum or not, they're scum

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1250 (isolation #65) » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:00 am

Yosarian2 wrote:I'm getting happier about the idea of lynch MOS, the more he delays answering any question in any useful way.

My three main suspects are the same, but MOS just moved to the top of the list.
confirm vote:MOS

Jesus, I just posted two days ago. Class started this week, you can't expect me to be able to post all the fucking time. Give me a break.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1251 (isolation #66) » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:01 am

And now for the fun to begin. I'm going to post an analysis of each player, and I'll hopefully get through a third of the game today. If anything, my summary of their actions should give you some good reference to work with. I would suggest directing replacements to these posts in the future.

CrashTestDummie:
Day 1 -
- Votes Glork for wanting the King dead Day 1
- Votes Pablito for defending Glork
- Votes bird1111 for "joke voting" Glork and Pablito, then unvoting them later
- Has townie vibes from Glork but is more suspicious of Pablito for not getting on Bird's case enough
Day 2 -
- Confused by pablito's play, unvotes
- wants pressure on ubertimmy, doesn't state reasons
- votes PJ for lynching Rosso on short notice
- votes StallingChamp for a post lost during the crash
- votes Twomz for bandwagon hopping and asking putting Burden of Proof on the victim instead of the attacker
- votes ubertimmy again for lurking
- attacks pablito for giving pj blanket immunity for his actions Day 1
- Agrees with MBL's stance on PJ and Pablito
- Sees no reason to execute Yos or MBL, claims confusion over Pooky and Pablito, and needs to reread Mert. Only StallingChamp should remain on the LoE
- Suspicious of LL's "too many townies" in his initial analysis
- Makes solid (imo) defense against Zindaras's attack on him (thrice)
- Finishes reread of Mert and agrees that he should be on the LoE
- Questions PJ's stance on Mert based on previous games he's player with him
- Doesn't want Yos or Pooky to be executed, prefers StallingChamp and Twomz
- Asserts that he doesn't quite think Yos and Pooky are scum, but that there isn't a case against Yos and that Pooky has been giving off protown vibes
Day 3 -
- No Posts Yet

Result: I am fairly impressed by CrashTextDummie so far. I largely feel protown vibes from him, and the only thing that seems a little off-color was his insistence that Pooky was protown, even given the fact that Pooky largely did nothing besides his one big analysis. Perhaps my timeline is off, however. I would not want to see a CTD execution anytime soon.

Dead Rikimaru:
Day 1 -
- Considers distancing tactic between pablito and Glork
- Claims that he didn't promote a pablito/Glork pairing, just that pablito is trying hard to be paired with pablito, can't think of a protown reason for it
Day 2 -
- votes pablito, no additional reasoning
- No post from Oct 27 until Dec 12, nothing of substance or length until Dec 18
- Doesn't find Yos scummy (good post)
- Claims to be unable to read Pooky, prefers him over Yos
- Amused that the LoE only contains those who have criticized Glork
Day 3 -
- Ask for top 3 suspects from each player
- Doesn't believe in randomly executing lurkers
- Calls for prods on lurkers
- Asks why Glork would bus a scumbuddy early in the game (My answer: Because he knows someone like you would ask yourself this question. Glork has admitted to being willing to bus any and all partners if he thinks it will get him a free pass through the game)
- States there are too many lurkers
- Asks me if my position on Phoebus is the same (I'll get to him eventually)

Result: I'm fairly unimpressed with Dead Rikimaru's play so far. I believe he has contradicted himself Day 1, been generally unhelpful and non-committal Day 2, and has barely offered any of his own insight into the game. His Day 3 actions have been far better than the first two days, but that is to be expected from the pressure of being King. Even so, asking for suspects and collecting reasoning is a good way to pick people to go after without having to dig up your own reasoning (he can use a conglomeration of other person's reasoning to get a protown player lynched), and being concerned with lurkers is something that scum often do to try and look helpful and protown. Everyone is concerned with lurkers, but scum tend to overdo it a bit. I could definitely see Dead Rikimaru as scum right now.

Der Hammer:
Result: Der Hammer has 5 posts, all of which are him saying that he was gonna or is going to post his thoughts soon, but he keeps getting delayed. His most recent post said he would post his thoughts 3 days ago. I could see him as lurking scum, and definitely not useful at the very least. He needs to post substance soon.

Fritzler:
Day 1 -
- Asks pj to kill CTD
- Likes Mert
- Vouches for Pooky
- Wants CTD dead
- Agrees with Glork's CTD vote
- Asks why CTD isn't dead yet
- Votes CTD
- Agrees with Twomz's post that Fritzler is one of the funnier players in the game
- Says that SV confused pj with pooky about keyboard problems
- Asks if we can kill CTD now
- Says "duh" that he's protown, claims everything he says has intrinsic merit, says "duh" that he found something with CTD, fixes Glork's D1 suspicion list to only include CTD
- wants us to check out his sig
- Wants to know why CTD isn't on any of pj's lists for execution possibility
- Calls pj CTD's scumbuddy
Day 2 -
- Wants glork to reread CTD's posts quickly
- Says MBL being scum in the last mountainous game bodes ill for him this game
- Claims to be Pooky's scumbuddy
- Basically calls StallingChamp a hypocrit, for voting Pooky/Fritz/MoS for lack of content
- Calls StallingChamp a rookie that shouldn't speak
- Pointless response to co-mod post
- Asks Glork to kill either CTD or himself (Fritzler)
Day 3 -
- Asks why he isn't king, votes Nightson
- Claims that Yosarian, Spectrumvoid, Kscope are his top 3 suspects
- Says that Nightson shouldn't bother rereading because he's going to die
- Says he'd execute Glork if he was king
- Another pointless response to Mod

Result: What happened to CTD? Fritzler never gave a good reason to suspect him in the first place (And i think CTD has been fairly protown), but after Day 1 he only mentions him once, and by Day 3 he has whole new suspicions out of nowhere. This has parallels to my play this game, with the exception that I don't believe I have clamored for someone's death so adamantly, only to drop them out of existence. Also, for being so similar to my play this game, I don't think he's come under that much fire from other players beyond the occasional vote, whereas I have been attacked by the majority of the players in this game, nearly. I could see him as scum, or perhaps just lazy. Wouldn't mind seeing him hang.

Glork's is gonna take a while, and I have class soon, so it'll have to wait until later.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1262 (isolation #67) » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:42 pm

lol, no classes tomorrow afternoon. I will tackle Glork next, unless you guys want me to skip him for now. He has 211-some posts in a game of 1260, whereas prolific PJ only has 55 and I have about 67.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1264 (isolation #68) » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:44 pm

Unless someone was replaced recently, I'm not going to judge people by the actions of their predecessor. It's next to impossible for them to defend against, and since they have no idea what that person was thinking, there isn't a real way to figure out the motives for their actions, since we have no reactions to read when we analyze them.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1266 (isolation #69) » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:15 pm

You do realize that I used the same wording with Dead Rikimaru, right? My wording comes from the fact that I naturally digress into paper-writing form when I write long posts, and I am fairly good at coming up with, for lack of a better word, "eloquent" wordings on the spot as I write. I would consider myself a well-developed essayist. I have lots of practice.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1276 (isolation #70) » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:08 am

Lowell wrote:
petroleumjelly wrote:
spectrumvoid, Post 1268 wrote:I don't think Glork was under significant pressure to execute scum yesterday.
Also I noticed that quite a few people wanted to execute non-scum
, and Glork could have very well not chosen to execute his 'scum-buddy'. So I'm removing Glork from my list.
How many of these "non-scum" were people pushing on yesterday? And, more importantly, how did you
know
they were "non-scum"?
Yeah I noticed this too.

Okay, even if I buy SV's claim that this was an innocent slip, the argument STILL doesn't make sense. Are you saying anyone who wanted to execute ANYONE OTHER THAN POOKY is suspicious? You can't possibly believe this...

vote SV and MoS

I'm adding MoS (2nd preference) because his latest efforts, though numerous, haven't had a townie feel to them. Usually I'm a sucker for pro-town vibes and people under pressure often convince me that they're not scum. But that hasn't happened for whatever reason.

On the opposite side of things, I'm sold on GLORK and RAFK being town. SV's point is actually correct, other than the unfortunate slip-up.

I'll get to posting more later. I bought my first home last week, so I'm a bit busy...

LoL, that's because I don't particularly care if I make it through this day. I'm doing this out of generosity, so that when I die you know that what I said was made from a protown perspective and can lynch all the scumbags I nabbed for you. No need to get townie feels now, you'll get plenty of townie vibes when the mod announces my death.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1283 (isolation #71) » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:30 pm

spectrumvoid wrote:MoS: Doesn't giving up = scum tell? I don't like this defeatist attitude.

My question again: How do I see posts in isolation after page 1? I want to do a player summary.

All the posts are shown on one page when you view in isolation.

LoL, if I'd given up I wouldn't be posting anymore.

Erm, it's looking a little bleak as to when my next content will come. Tomorrow I'm gonna be busy all evening and have classes during the day, and there is a huge roleplaying convention at my Uni on Saturday that I'm going to all day. Maybe something will get done on Sunday depending on homework.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1302 (isolation #72) » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:47 am

Glork wrote:I could accept a CTD execution in the event that MoS is not executed.

MoS, do you plan on finishing that analysis soon? You wouldn't want to let us down like Pooky did, now would you?

If/When I have time. I hardly care about this game more than RL issues, and I have a lot more of those.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:13 am

I won't have a top 3 until I finishing doing the analysis of everyone, but right now Dead Rikimaru is one of my top 3

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1316 (isolation #74) » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:11 pm

I skipped Glork, pablito, PJ, Yosarian2, and Zindaras, since they have a crapload of posts. Here's everyone else.

KaleiDoscope (Replacing Bird):

Day 2 -
- Suspicious of CDB and PJ, notes Pab/Glork connection and MoS trusting people early
- Suspicious of Pablito, CDB, and Pooky (and votes them), also somewhat suspicious of Fritz, Phoebus, and PJ (Gives reasoning)
- Undecided about LuckayLuck, thinks Glork's play is a little off, thinks MBL is town, also thinks Zindaras is town
- Unvotes CDB when Lowell replaces him
Day 3 -
- Votes Pablito
- Not convinced that MoS is scum yet, interested in MoS's replies
- Suspicious of Yos
- Not happy about MoS bandwagon
- Top 3: Pablito, Der Hammer, Phoebus

Result: I'm not seeing Kscope as particularly town or scum right now (OMG he placed him in his neutral category, scumbuddies LOLOLOL!). He has come a long way from Bird's behavior, but I would like to know what he thinks of Fritzler and PJ still. He named them on his suspicions list yesterday but hasn't touched them since, contenting with ONLY a Pablito vote until asked to give 3 suspects.

Lowell (Replacing CDB):

Day 2 -
- Declares Zindaras as most protown player so far, also MBL is high up there. Lists CTD as well. Phoebus and MoS considered protown, insinuates that MoS has attempted to become King. No opinion of Nightson or Pooky, neutral towards SV, neutralish towards PJ. Votes Yos, Pablito, and LuckayLuck with reasoning.
- Comes up with a plan to have the Kingmaker out themselves every day and act as proxy to the King, guaranteeing a protown executioner.
- Comes up with a plan to have everyone make a List of Good Kings for the Kingmaker to get ideas from.
- Wants to know how Glork narrowed his list to Yos and Pooky. Declares Kscope protown.
Day 3 -
- Confused as to choice of new King
- Asks King to help pressure the lurkers
- Thinks Glork is town (with reasoning)
- Votes SV and MoS, SV for freudian slip and MoS for recent efforts not seeming protownish. Thinks Rafk is town
- Votes CTD

Result: I'm getting a protown feel from Lowell. He's getting involved and presenting his own arguments for his suspicions. He also came up with two good plans that I didn't see before and apparently didn't get a lot of discussion. I see no reason why we shouldn't use the plans Lowell came up with. We need to implement them now, especially after we got a scummy person as king (Dead Rik). The Kingmaker could use input and reasoning as to who would make a good king.

Mert:

Day 1 -
- Votes CDB
- Speculates about good strategy for forming an LoE
- Votes MoS and Bird for their voting patterns
- Disagrees that parallels between CDB and RA from KM 1 point to CDB being town
- Votes Phoebus for not being helpful, unvotes MoS for being more vocal
- Wonders why pablito is acting so strange intentionally
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz and Pooky for the nutkicking theory (supporting it)
- Asks for replacement

Results: Generally protownish feeling, nothing strong. He needs to be replaced.

Nightfall (Replacing UberTimmy):

Day 2 -
- 1 post, Dec. 16th.

Results: He needs to be replaced.

Nightson:

Day 1 -
- Votes pablito and phoebus, thinks cdb is town
- Defends reasoning for his votes
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz for stuff lost in crash
- Thinks MBL, Glork, and PJ are town, not sure about Pablito
- Unvotes, has a problem with a Yos execution
- Votes pablito and MBL (for logical fallacies)
- Will reread (Dec 5)
- Will reread (Jan 3)
- Will reread (Jan 10)

Result: Needs to be replaced.

Olio:

Day 2 -
- Votes pablito, LuckayLuck, and Nightson
- Asks pablito why he voted him
Day 3 -
- Top 3 suspects: pablito, LuckayLuck, Nightson; SV and MoS are contenders for T3
- Votes MoS for changing his mind without explanations
- Thinks townies need to know why someone was lynched, not just who should be lynched.

Results: I'm neutral to Olio. He's done more than this, I just wrote what stood out to me. He hasn't done anything scummy.

Phoebus:

Day 1 -
- Votes MBL, CDB, and pablito
- Votes mert
- Gives reason for votes as joining bandwagons after reading
Day 2 -
- Doesn't like bird's opening post, votes Bird
- Votes pablito and Yosarian, gut reasoning
- Said he would be more active Day 3

Results: I believe he asked for replacement, but I feel that he was being genuine in his posts. I will have to see how his replacement does.

Samus:

Day 2 -
- Single post (Dec 16)

Results: He needs to be replaced, NOW

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1335 (isolation #75) » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:36 am

Mastermind of Sin wrote:LoL, that's because I don't particularly care if I make it through this day. I'm doing this out of generosity, so that when I die you know that what I said was made from a protown perspective and can lynch all the scumbags I nabbed for you. No need to get townie feels now, you'll get plenty of townie vibes when the mod announces my death.

*bump* for SV

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1336 (isolation #76) » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:40 am

petroleumjelly wrote:Um. I don't think the Hero is the most decisive reason as to why scum would want the Kingmaker outed.

Here's why:

If the scum know who the Kingmaker is (especially by this time in the game), they can effectively gauge how suspicious the Kingmaker is of them, or if the Kingmaker thinks they (collectively and individually) are town. If the Kingmaker is pursuing a largely bad set of suspicions, the scum will leave him/her alive, since the Kingmaker will likely be choosing Kings in such a way that will further their agenda. If the Kingmaker is spot-on, "close enough", or choosing good Kings (even through happenstance), they will probably kill them. And this will likely continue until the scum find a Kingmaker who either thinks a particular scum is town (and might even bestow Kingship on scum), or who is pursuing multiple people who are actually town.

Outing the Kingmaker might help today (if Dead Rikimaru is a scum-King), but after that point the scum will only have even more control and influence over how the rest of the game is played.

If they leave the Kingmaker alive, then we know that Kingmaker is making wrong decisions and can adjust. It becomes a giant ball of WIFOM that leaves the scum better off just killing the Kingmaker.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1353 (isolation #77) » Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:16 pm

petroleumjelly wrote:...

That post made no sense to me, MoS. How is it you conclude that no matter what, the scum are "better off killing the Kingmaker"?

I would like to tentatively add pj to my top 3 list. The whole point of that post was to confuse the scum and make them assume that they WERE better off killing the kingmaker, even if that wasn't entirely the case. I figured an intelligent protown player would realize this and go along. He's nowhere near Dead Rikimaru on my list, but he's closer, pending a full reread of his posts. I'm not sure when that'll happen, since I'm having RL issues lately.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1382 (isolation #78) » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:43 am

Yosarian2 wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote: I figured an intelligent protown player would realize this and go along.
Heh...so, you thought the pro-town players would all understand what you were trying to say, but that the scum would be dumb enough to just go along with it and follow your advice about who they should kill?

Point taken. I didn't think of that

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1384 (isolation #79) » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:45 am

petroleumjelly wrote:*snip*

I'll have to review your analysis posts later.

Oh good. At least I got someone to read them. I wouldn't have wanted to go through all that effort just to have nobody read them.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1386 (isolation #80) » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:46 am

petroleumjelly wrote:How far had you read when making that post, TS?

It shouldn't matter. My alignment hasn't changed yet this game

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:08 am

LoL. You act as if I've only made one silly post this game

I find it hard to believe that such an intelligent person as yourself fails to realize the significance of my actions so far this game. I would explain further, but coming from me it would just be called WIFOM, so I won't bother.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1450 (isolation #82) » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:42 am

Glork wrote:Seriously. I'm getting
VERY
impatient. I like this game so far, but I find myself wanting
anything
to happen, and I'm getting very bored. So bored, I've started merely skimming other players' posts.

Also,
Unvote DragonsofSummer
... I still feel like I think Phoebus was town. I donno.

And you wonder why I don't particularly care about this game anymore? LoL

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1454 (isolation #83) » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:11 am

Glork wrote:
MoS wrote:And you wonder why I don't particularly care about this game anymore? LoL
Don't give me that shit. You've been acting like a bum since your very first post of the game.

Yes, but at least at the beginning of the game I was contributing. The bumness has been increasing exponentially.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1457 (isolation #84) » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:13 pm

Yeah, our Kingmaker sucks.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1486 (isolation #85) » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:34 pm

Wow, that game review has things in it that I don't even remember happening...way too long. I'll wait to see what he actually has to say about the players before I revise my opinion of him, though. He's still in my top 3.

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:02 am

Y'all need to learn the difference between a defeatist attitude and someone who expects to die but still makes an effort to contribute anyways.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1525 (isolation #87) » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:02 am

pablito wrote:So really, Dead Rikimaru goes through the trouble of making and posting all those comments and you guys (not all of you, but there's a lot) can't be bothered to look or comment on what he's said?

Seriously, if you're going to comment on his inactivity or lack of hammer, then at least do something with what he's given you. Dead Rikimaru may be lagging, but he's hardly unpassionate.

It'll help him make his decision quicker if you can process and discuss in the same manner as how he would like to proceed.

a) I already did a summary of everyone's play (except a few of the more prolific posters) that is more up-to-date than DR's, so his is useless to me
b) He's merely presenting facts and didn't stop to analyze anything, so there's nothing to comment on. If he's factually wrong about something, point it out, but you can't really argue against or comment on a summary that doesn't give any opinions.
c) He's probably scum, so I can avoid any possibly bias of his influencing me by not reading his post carefully. I don't lose anything by not reading it because of a).

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:04 am

Damn scum...

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1542 (isolation #89) » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:49 pm

Not to mention being scum.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1543 (isolation #90) » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:50 pm

*sigh* can we lynch DR already?

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1546 (isolation #91) » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:57 pm

I didn't see a problem with it.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:08 am

good for you!

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1579 (isolation #93) » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:42 am

restart = bad

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1595 (isolation #94) » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:44 pm

Yea, it's Dead Rikimaru that we're sure has left the site, not Der Hammer. Der Hammer deserves a prod.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1598 (isolation #95) » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:48 am

Our king is gone from the site.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:22 pm

I wish you would kill yourself, Smashy. Alas, that probably won't happen.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1610 (isolation #97) » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:47 pm

Mastermind of Sin wrote:And now for the fun to begin. I'm going to post an analysis of each player, and I'll hopefully get through a third of the game today. If anything, my summary of their actions should give you some good reference to work with. I would suggest directing replacements to these posts in the future.

CrashTestDummie:
Day 1 -
- Votes Glork for wanting the King dead Day 1
- Votes Pablito for defending Glork
- Votes bird1111 for "joke voting" Glork and Pablito, then unvoting them later
- Has townie vibes from Glork but is more suspicious of Pablito for not getting on Bird's case enough
Day 2 -
- Confused by pablito's play, unvotes
- wants pressure on ubertimmy, doesn't state reasons
- votes PJ for lynching Rosso on short notice
- votes StallingChamp for a post lost during the crash
- votes Twomz for bandwagon hopping and asking putting Burden of Proof on the victim instead of the attacker
- votes ubertimmy again for lurking
- attacks pablito for giving pj blanket immunity for his actions Day 1
- Agrees with MBL's stance on PJ and Pablito
- Sees no reason to execute Yos or MBL, claims confusion over Pooky and Pablito, and needs to reread Mert. Only StallingChamp should remain on the LoE
- Suspicious of LL's "too many townies" in his initial analysis
- Makes solid (imo) defense against Zindaras's attack on him (thrice)
- Finishes reread of Mert and agrees that he should be on the LoE
- Questions PJ's stance on Mert based on previous games he's player with him
- Doesn't want Yos or Pooky to be executed, prefers StallingChamp and Twomz
- Asserts that he doesn't quite think Yos and Pooky are scum, but that there isn't a case against Yos and that Pooky has been giving off protown vibes
Day 3 -
- No Posts Yet

Result: I am fairly impressed by CrashTextDummie so far. I largely feel protown vibes from him, and the only thing that seems a little off-color was his insistence that Pooky was protown, even given the fact that Pooky largely did nothing besides his one big analysis. Perhaps my timeline is off, however. I would not want to see a CTD execution anytime soon.

Dead Rikimaru:
Day 1 -
- Considers distancing tactic between pablito and Glork
- Claims that he didn't promote a pablito/Glork pairing, just that pablito is trying hard to be paired with pablito, can't think of a protown reason for it
Day 2 -
- votes pablito, no additional reasoning
- No post from Oct 27 until Dec 12, nothing of substance or length until Dec 18
- Doesn't find Yos scummy (good post)
- Claims to be unable to read Pooky, prefers him over Yos
- Amused that the LoE only contains those who have criticized Glork
Day 3 -
- Ask for top 3 suspects from each player
- Doesn't believe in randomly executing lurkers
- Calls for prods on lurkers
- Asks why Glork would bus a scumbuddy early in the game (My answer: Because he knows someone like you would ask yourself this question. Glork has admitted to being willing to bus any and all partners if he thinks it will get him a free pass through the game)
- States there are too many lurkers
- Asks me if my position on Phoebus is the same (I'll get to him eventually)

Result: I'm fairly unimpressed with Dead Rikimaru's play so far. I believe he has contradicted himself Day 1, been generally unhelpful and non-committal Day 2, and has barely offered any of his own insight into the game. His Day 3 actions have been far better than the first two days, but that is to be expected from the pressure of being King. Even so, asking for suspects and collecting reasoning is a good way to pick people to go after without having to dig up your own reasoning (he can use a conglomeration of other person's reasoning to get a protown player lynched), and being concerned with lurkers is something that scum often do to try and look helpful and protown. Everyone is concerned with lurkers, but scum tend to overdo it a bit. I could definitely see Dead Rikimaru as scum right now.

Der Hammer:
Result: Der Hammer has 5 posts, all of which are him saying that he was gonna or is going to post his thoughts soon, but he keeps getting delayed. His most recent post said he would post his thoughts 3 days ago. I could see him as lurking scum, and definitely not useful at the very least. He needs to post substance soon.

Fritzler:
Day 1 -
- Asks pj to kill CTD
- Likes Mert
- Vouches for Pooky
- Wants CTD dead
- Agrees with Glork's CTD vote
- Asks why CTD isn't dead yet
- Votes CTD
- Agrees with Twomz's post that Fritzler is one of the funnier players in the game
- Says that SV confused pj with pooky about keyboard problems
- Asks if we can kill CTD now
- Says "duh" that he's protown, claims everything he says has intrinsic merit, says "duh" that he found something with CTD, fixes Glork's D1 suspicion list to only include CTD
- wants us to check out his sig
- Wants to know why CTD isn't on any of pj's lists for execution possibility
- Calls pj CTD's scumbuddy
Day 2 -
- Wants glork to reread CTD's posts quickly
- Says MBL being scum in the last mountainous game bodes ill for him this game
- Claims to be Pooky's scumbuddy
- Basically calls StallingChamp a hypocrit, for voting Pooky/Fritz/MoS for lack of content
- Calls StallingChamp a rookie that shouldn't speak
- Pointless response to co-mod post
- Asks Glork to kill either CTD or himself (Fritzler)
Day 3 -
- Asks why he isn't king, votes Nightson
- Claims that Yosarian, Spectrumvoid, Kscope are his top 3 suspects
- Says that Nightson shouldn't bother rereading because he's going to die
- Says he'd execute Glork if he was king
- Another pointless response to Mod

Result: What happened to CTD? Fritzler never gave a good reason to suspect him in the first place (And i think CTD has been fairly protown), but after Day 1 he only mentions him once, and by Day 3 he has whole new suspicions out of nowhere. This has parallels to my play this game, with the exception that I don't believe I have clamored for someone's death so adamantly, only to drop them out of existence. Also, for being so similar to my play this game, I don't think he's come under that much fire from other players beyond the occasional vote, whereas I have been attacked by the majority of the players in this game, nearly. I could see him as scum, or perhaps just lazy. Wouldn't mind seeing him hang.

Glork's is gonna take a while, and I have class soon, so it'll have to wait until later.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I skipped Glork, pablito, PJ, Yosarian2, and Zindaras, since they have a crapload of posts. Here's everyone else.

KaleiDoscope (Replacing Bird):

Day 2 -
- Suspicious of CDB and PJ, notes Pab/Glork connection and MoS trusting people early
- Suspicious of Pablito, CDB, and Pooky (and votes them), also somewhat suspicious of Fritz, Phoebus, and PJ (Gives reasoning)
- Undecided about LuckayLuck, thinks Glork's play is a little off, thinks MBL is town, also thinks Zindaras is town
- Unvotes CDB when Lowell replaces him
Day 3 -
- Votes Pablito
- Not convinced that MoS is scum yet, interested in MoS's replies
- Suspicious of Yos
- Not happy about MoS bandwagon
- Top 3: Pablito, Der Hammer, Phoebus

Result: I'm not seeing Kscope as particularly town or scum right now (OMG he placed him in his neutral category, scumbuddies LOLOLOL!). He has come a long way from Bird's behavior, but I would like to know what he thinks of Fritzler and PJ still. He named them on his suspicions list yesterday but hasn't touched them since, contenting with ONLY a Pablito vote until asked to give 3 suspects.

Lowell (Replacing CDB):

Day 2 -
- Declares Zindaras as most protown player so far, also MBL is high up there. Lists CTD as well. Phoebus and MoS considered protown, insinuates that MoS has attempted to become King. No opinion of Nightson or Pooky, neutral towards SV, neutralish towards PJ. Votes Yos, Pablito, and LuckayLuck with reasoning.
- Comes up with a plan to have the Kingmaker out themselves every day and act as proxy to the King, guaranteeing a protown executioner.
- Comes up with a plan to have everyone make a List of Good Kings for the Kingmaker to get ideas from.
- Wants to know how Glork narrowed his list to Yos and Pooky. Declares Kscope protown.
Day 3 -
- Confused as to choice of new King
- Asks King to help pressure the lurkers
- Thinks Glork is town (with reasoning)
- Votes SV and MoS, SV for freudian slip and MoS for recent efforts not seeming protownish. Thinks Rafk is town
- Votes CTD

Result: I'm getting a protown feel from Lowell. He's getting involved and presenting his own arguments for his suspicions. He also came up with two good plans that I didn't see before and apparently didn't get a lot of discussion. I see no reason why we shouldn't use the plans Lowell came up with. We need to implement them now, especially after we got a scummy person as king (Dead Rik). The Kingmaker could use input and reasoning as to who would make a good king.

Mert:

Day 1 -
- Votes CDB
- Speculates about good strategy for forming an LoE
- Votes MoS and Bird for their voting patterns
- Disagrees that parallels between CDB and RA from KM 1 point to CDB being town
- Votes Phoebus for not being helpful, unvotes MoS for being more vocal
- Wonders why pablito is acting so strange intentionally
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz and Pooky for the nutkicking theory (supporting it)
- Asks for replacement

Results: Generally protownish feeling, nothing strong. He needs to be replaced.

Nightfall (Replacing UberTimmy):

Day 2 -
- 1 post, Dec. 16th.

Results: He needs to be replaced.

Nightson:

Day 1 -
- Votes pablito and phoebus, thinks cdb is town
- Defends reasoning for his votes
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz for stuff lost in crash
- Thinks MBL, Glork, and PJ are town, not sure about Pablito
- Unvotes, has a problem with a Yos execution
- Votes pablito and MBL (for logical fallacies)
- Will reread (Dec 5)
- Will reread (Jan 3)
- Will reread (Jan 10)

Result: Needs to be replaced.

Olio:

Day 2 -
- Votes pablito, LuckayLuck, and Nightson
- Asks pablito why he voted him
Day 3 -
- Top 3 suspects: pablito, LuckayLuck, Nightson; SV and MoS are contenders for T3
- Votes MoS for changing his mind without explanations
- Thinks townies need to know why someone was lynched, not just who should be lynched.

Results: I'm neutral to Olio. He's done more than this, I just wrote what stood out to me. He hasn't done anything scummy.

Phoebus:

Day 1 -
- Votes MBL, CDB, and pablito
- Votes mert
- Gives reason for votes as joining bandwagons after reading
Day 2 -
- Doesn't like bird's opening post, votes Bird
- Votes pablito and Yosarian, gut reasoning
- Said he would be more active Day 3

Results: I believe he asked for replacement, but I feel that he was being genuine in his posts. I will have to see how his replacement does.

Samus:

Day 2 -
- Single post (Dec 16)

Results: He needs to be replaced, NOW

This should help your reread, Smashy.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1619 (isolation #98) » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:56 pm

I believe I have votes because I have chosen a radically different playstyle than most (in the singular instance of this game) and have proceeded to defy the establishment and do whatever I want during the game. Pretty much all the reasoning against me stems from that.

Mastermind of Sin · Post Post #1633 (isolation #99) » Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:39 pm

It's not hard to make a correct summary as scum. You merely restate facts that

anyone in the game can double check, so if you were wrong you'd be screwed

. Making a summary means nothing unless you state some opinions based on your summary and analyze it, something DR completely failed to do. His summary looks like an attempt to look protown without actually helping out very much, since anyone that had read the thread would know most of what he said anyways. He failed to make an LOE or execute someone because he went AFK from the site, not because he's protown. In fact, saying that he's protown because he failed to fulfill his duties as king makes no sense at all. Being away from the site has no indication of alignment. It simply means you're

gone

.

As for PJ, how can you call his reign as king very town-like, when he put someone on his LOE last minute and executed them before they had a chance to defend themselves. Deadline isn't much of an excuse, since it's his fault for putting them on the chopping block so close to deadline. That's hardly protown play. He may have made other actions that were protown, but his reign as king was definitely NOT a point in his favor.

I'd like to add LL to my top three list, making it DR/Smashy and LL (with PJ at a lesser third spot for now).

Mastermind of Sin · Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:24 am

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:17 pm

Der hammer, try to use the various summaries people posted to at least get an idea of who you find suspicious.

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:30 pm

You might wanna fix your tags.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:49 am

shush, CES =P

Mastermind of Sin · Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:13 am

Post your suspicions, if you haven't already. Respond to other people's suspicions, find scum, etc.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:30 pm

I'm feeling a little better about LL, but not much.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:06 am

Lowell, have you given us your suspicions yet?

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:09 pm

LL, why are you more suspicious of Yos? You explained somewhat why SV went from very townie to getting your vote, but so did Yos. Why did that happen?

Mastermind of Sin · Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:50 am

Zindaras wrote:Going purely on gut right now, I'd say voidybuns is the best execution.

What's the reasoning against SV again?

Mastermind of Sin · Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:13 pm

That's what I like about his playstyle. I find it somewhat refreshing, if not at least generally effective. People higher up on his lists have tended to be more likely protown, from what I've seen.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:51 pm

Aww, we'll miss you Olio

Mastermind of Sin · Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:28 pm

Erm, I wasn't confused until you fixed the typo...

Mastermind of Sin · Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:27 pm

ThAdmiral wrote:yeah, probably more like a day.

If you can read this thread in a day, I'll be quite impressed.

Mastermind of Sin · Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:29 am

No one will tell me why SV is scum...

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:15 pm

Smashy needs to be executed, see my previous reasoning.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:34 pm

Mastermind of Sin wrote:And now for the fun to begin. I'm going to post an analysis of each player, and I'll hopefully get through a third of the game today. If anything, my summary of their actions should give you some good reference to work with. I would suggest directing replacements to these posts in the future.

CrashTestDummie:
Day 1 -
- Votes Glork for wanting the King dead Day 1
- Votes Pablito for defending Glork
- Votes bird1111 for "joke voting" Glork and Pablito, then unvoting them later
- Has townie vibes from Glork but is more suspicious of Pablito for not getting on Bird's case enough
Day 2 -
- Confused by pablito's play, unvotes
- wants pressure on ubertimmy, doesn't state reasons
- votes PJ for lynching Rosso on short notice
- votes StallingChamp for a post lost during the crash
- votes Twomz for bandwagon hopping and asking putting Burden of Proof on the victim instead of the attacker
- votes ubertimmy again for lurking
- attacks pablito for giving pj blanket immunity for his actions Day 1
- Agrees with MBL's stance on PJ and Pablito
- Sees no reason to execute Yos or MBL, claims confusion over Pooky and Pablito, and needs to reread Mert. Only StallingChamp should remain on the LoE
- Suspicious of LL's "too many townies" in his initial analysis
- Makes solid (imo) defense against Zindaras's attack on him (thrice)
- Finishes reread of Mert and agrees that he should be on the LoE
- Questions PJ's stance on Mert based on previous games he's player with him
- Doesn't want Yos or Pooky to be executed, prefers StallingChamp and Twomz
- Asserts that he doesn't quite think Yos and Pooky are scum, but that there isn't a case against Yos and that Pooky has been giving off protown vibes
Day 3 -
- No Posts Yet

Result: I am fairly impressed by CrashTextDummie so far. I largely feel protown vibes from him, and the only thing that seems a little off-color was his insistence that Pooky was protown, even given the fact that Pooky largely did nothing besides his one big analysis. Perhaps my timeline is off, however. I would not want to see a CTD execution anytime soon.

Dead Rikimaru:
Day 1 -
- Considers distancing tactic between pablito and Glork
- Claims that he didn't promote a pablito/Glork pairing, just that pablito is trying hard to be paired with pablito, can't think of a protown reason for it
Day 2 -
- votes pablito, no additional reasoning
- No post from Oct 27 until Dec 12, nothing of substance or length until Dec 18
- Doesn't find Yos scummy (good post)
- Claims to be unable to read Pooky, prefers him over Yos
- Amused that the LoE only contains those who have criticized Glork
Day 3 -
- Ask for top 3 suspects from each player
- Doesn't believe in randomly executing lurkers
- Calls for prods on lurkers
- Asks why Glork would bus a scumbuddy early in the game (My answer: Because he knows someone like you would ask yourself this question. Glork has admitted to being willing to bus any and all partners if he thinks it will get him a free pass through the game)
- States there are too many lurkers
- Asks me if my position on Phoebus is the same (I'll get to him eventually)

Result: I'm fairly unimpressed with Dead Rikimaru's play so far. I believe he has contradicted himself Day 1, been generally unhelpful and non-committal Day 2, and has barely offered any of his own insight into the game. His Day 3 actions have been far better than the first two days, but that is to be expected from the pressure of being King. Even so, asking for suspects and collecting reasoning is a good way to pick people to go after without having to dig up your own reasoning (he can use a conglomeration of other person's reasoning to get a protown player lynched), and being concerned with lurkers is something that scum often do to try and look helpful and protown. Everyone is concerned with lurkers, but scum tend to overdo it a bit. I could definitely see Dead Rikimaru as scum right now.

Der Hammer:
Result: Der Hammer has 5 posts, all of which are him saying that he was gonna or is going to post his thoughts soon, but he keeps getting delayed. His most recent post said he would post his thoughts 3 days ago. I could see him as lurking scum, and definitely not useful at the very least. He needs to post substance soon.

Fritzler:
Day 1 -
- Asks pj to kill CTD
- Likes Mert
- Vouches for Pooky
- Wants CTD dead
- Agrees with Glork's CTD vote
- Asks why CTD isn't dead yet
- Votes CTD
- Agrees with Twomz's post that Fritzler is one of the funnier players in the game
- Says that SV confused pj with pooky about keyboard problems
- Asks if we can kill CTD now
- Says "duh" that he's protown, claims everything he says has intrinsic merit, says "duh" that he found something with CTD, fixes Glork's D1 suspicion list to only include CTD
- wants us to check out his sig
- Wants to know why CTD isn't on any of pj's lists for execution possibility
- Calls pj CTD's scumbuddy
Day 2 -
- Wants glork to reread CTD's posts quickly
- Says MBL being scum in the last mountainous game bodes ill for him this game
- Claims to be Pooky's scumbuddy
- Basically calls StallingChamp a hypocrit, for voting Pooky/Fritz/MoS for lack of content
- Calls StallingChamp a rookie that shouldn't speak
- Pointless response to co-mod post
- Asks Glork to kill either CTD or himself (Fritzler)
Day 3 -
- Asks why he isn't king, votes Nightson
- Claims that Yosarian, Spectrumvoid, Kscope are his top 3 suspects
- Says that Nightson shouldn't bother rereading because he's going to die
- Says he'd execute Glork if he was king
- Another pointless response to Mod

Result: What happened to CTD? Fritzler never gave a good reason to suspect him in the first place (And i think CTD has been fairly protown), but after Day 1 he only mentions him once, and by Day 3 he has whole new suspicions out of nowhere. This has parallels to my play this game, with the exception that I don't believe I have clamored for someone's death so adamantly, only to drop them out of existence. Also, for being so similar to my play this game, I don't think he's come under that much fire from other players beyond the occasional vote, whereas I have been attacked by the majority of the players in this game, nearly. I could see him as scum, or perhaps just lazy. Wouldn't mind seeing him hang.

Glork's is gonna take a while, and I have class soon, so it'll have to wait until later.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I skipped Glork, pablito, PJ, Yosarian2, and Zindaras, since they have a crapload of posts. Here's everyone else.

KaleiDoscope (Replacing Bird):

Day 2 -
- Suspicious of CDB and PJ, notes Pab/Glork connection and MoS trusting people early
- Suspicious of Pablito, CDB, and Pooky (and votes them), also somewhat suspicious of Fritz, Phoebus, and PJ (Gives reasoning)
- Undecided about LuckayLuck, thinks Glork's play is a little off, thinks MBL is town, also thinks Zindaras is town
- Unvotes CDB when Lowell replaces him
Day 3 -
- Votes Pablito
- Not convinced that MoS is scum yet, interested in MoS's replies
- Suspicious of Yos
- Not happy about MoS bandwagon
- Top 3: Pablito, Der Hammer, Phoebus

Result: I'm not seeing Kscope as particularly town or scum right now (OMG he placed him in his neutral category, scumbuddies LOLOLOL!). He has come a long way from Bird's behavior, but I would like to know what he thinks of Fritzler and PJ still. He named them on his suspicions list yesterday but hasn't touched them since, contenting with ONLY a Pablito vote until asked to give 3 suspects.

Lowell (Replacing CDB):

Day 2 -
- Declares Zindaras as most protown player so far, also MBL is high up there. Lists CTD as well. Phoebus and MoS considered protown, insinuates that MoS has attempted to become King. No opinion of Nightson or Pooky, neutral towards SV, neutralish towards PJ. Votes Yos, Pablito, and LuckayLuck with reasoning.
- Comes up with a plan to have the Kingmaker out themselves every day and act as proxy to the King, guaranteeing a protown executioner.
- Comes up with a plan to have everyone make a List of Good Kings for the Kingmaker to get ideas from.
- Wants to know how Glork narrowed his list to Yos and Pooky. Declares Kscope protown.
Day 3 -
- Confused as to choice of new King
- Asks King to help pressure the lurkers
- Thinks Glork is town (with reasoning)
- Votes SV and MoS, SV for freudian slip and MoS for recent efforts not seeming protownish. Thinks Rafk is town
- Votes CTD

Result: I'm getting a protown feel from Lowell. He's getting involved and presenting his own arguments for his suspicions. He also came up with two good plans that I didn't see before and apparently didn't get a lot of discussion. I see no reason why we shouldn't use the plans Lowell came up with. We need to implement them now, especially after we got a scummy person as king (Dead Rik). The Kingmaker could use input and reasoning as to who would make a good king.

Mert:

Day 1 -
- Votes CDB
- Speculates about good strategy for forming an LoE
- Votes MoS and Bird for their voting patterns
- Disagrees that parallels between CDB and RA from KM 1 point to CDB being town
- Votes Phoebus for not being helpful, unvotes MoS for being more vocal
- Wonders why pablito is acting so strange intentionally
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz and Pooky for the nutkicking theory (supporting it)
- Asks for replacement

Results: Generally protownish feeling, nothing strong. He needs to be replaced.

Nightfall (Replacing UberTimmy):

Day 2 -
- 1 post, Dec. 16th.

Results: He needs to be replaced.

Nightson:

Day 1 -
- Votes pablito and phoebus, thinks cdb is town
- Defends reasoning for his votes
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz for stuff lost in crash
- Thinks MBL, Glork, and PJ are town, not sure about Pablito
- Unvotes, has a problem with a Yos execution
- Votes pablito and MBL (for logical fallacies)
- Will reread (Dec 5)
- Will reread (Jan 3)
- Will reread (Jan 10)

Result: Needs to be replaced.

Olio:

Day 2 -
- Votes pablito, LuckayLuck, and Nightson
- Asks pablito why he voted him
Day 3 -
- Top 3 suspects: pablito, LuckayLuck, Nightson; SV and MoS are contenders for T3
- Votes MoS for changing his mind without explanations
- Thinks townies need to know why someone was lynched, not just who should be lynched.

Results: I'm neutral to Olio. He's done more than this, I just wrote what stood out to me. He hasn't done anything scummy.

Phoebus:

Day 1 -
- Votes MBL, CDB, and pablito
- Votes mert
- Gives reason for votes as joining bandwagons after reading
Day 2 -
- Doesn't like bird's opening post, votes Bird
- Votes pablito and Yosarian, gut reasoning
- Said he would be more active Day 3

Results: I believe he asked for replacement, but I feel that he was being genuine in his posts. I will have to see how his replacement does.

Samus:

Day 2 -
- Single post (Dec 16)

Results: He needs to be replaced, NOW

I would also support a Fritzler execution.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:08 am

Mastermind of Sin · Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:26 am

You forgot one.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:26 pm

I would suggest strongly considering a mnowax execution. Look back at his posts, he has posted pretty much all one-liners without contribution, voting people for no good reason. For the third time this game he has voted me, and his reasons for those votes are as follows:

Vote 1: No Reason Given
Vote 2: Shameless Bandwagoning
Vote 3: "i dunno but i guess"

His other votes (and the reasoning given) have been:

Dead Rikimaru - "kill anyone!"
Smashy - "DR was stalling too much"
pablito - "For getting me into this game with his sig!"
Smashy - "i thought Dead was scum, sorry"
Toaster Strudel - "i like pop tarts biatch!"

His only reasonable votes have been the ones on Smashy, and he's just taking other people's reasoning and then even acting like he's sorry for voting him. Really, if you think someone is scum, don't be sorry for voting their replacement. That's just silly.

It looks to me like mnowax is just posting enough to not be called a lurker, but not actually being useful in any way, shape, or form. He's also muddying things for our king by making it look like there is more suspicion on people than there really is, when he doesn't even really think that person is scum or have a reason to vote them.

I like a mnowax execution better than a Fritzler one, even.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:37 pm

pablito ftw

Mastermind of Sin · Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:44 pm

You do that ^_^

Mastermind of Sin · Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:10 am

Still not seeing a reason to suspect speccy.

Mastermind of Sin · Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:37 am

mnowax wrote:OK then. I will get a chance hopefully tonight or tomorrow and do a full ecal on MoS. I just wanted to stay out otf the posting novels and such, but if you want one you'll get one. until then
UnVote all, Vote: Mastermind of Sin
ill prove it in a later post.

I love a good OMGUS. We got ourselves a nervous scummyscum

Mastermind of Sin · Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:41 am

Zindaras wrote:It's a while ago, Mossy, but I think I outlined pretty well why I suspected voidybuns when I came into the game.

thanks, that's why I couldn't find it.

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:49 am

Still waiting for mnowax to explain how I'm scum. So far he's just reiterating arguments that have already been used against me not once, but multiple times before in this game. No new contribution from him yet.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:45 pm

mnowax wrote:Yeah i might be lurking a bit because ( until now ) i haven't had much to say, it doesn't mean i don't care about this game. Leave the dead weight behind and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

On a separate note, MoS, My theory is that you have a tendency of just throwing out suspicions, which thats fine if its who you think is scummy, but you throwing the " X is town " without you really being suspicious of anyone disturbs me a bit. Thats all, it's not much, but it seems to me to be a change in play style. i don't like to meta-game, but in this case it is almost obvious to me.

Go ahead make me sweat. I am not afraid of going to the noose to show everyone I am town.

Note that he once again fails to actually respond to my points against him, AND fails to finish his analysis of me that would supposedly "prove" that I am scum. Now that his OMGUS of me has been called bullshit, he doesn't want to finish it and backs off to reiterating the "theory" that he's already said. His backing off from it shows that he really didn't have proof that I was scum, which means that he's just scum OMGUSing me. Also note that on top of all this, he falls back to the "you'll be lynching a townie" defense. I think we bagged ourselves a good one this time.

Der Hammer, why did you vote mnowax saying you'd unvote when he said something, when he'd just posted on the same page and was at least giving a semblence of contribution? Your vote on him looks a lot like a scumbuddy trying to quietly jump on the wagon. I suggest we execute Der Hammer after Mnowax.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:43 am

Der Hammer, I wanted your explanation, not some assumptions made by me. If you're scum, it's better to make you explain yourself than give you a free ride.

As for calling Der Hammer for tomorrow, that's merely because I am pretty convinced right now that Mnowax is scum, so Der Hammer is going on my suspicion list, but not as a possible execution for today. Fritzler, Smashy, and Der Hammer will have to wait for tomorrow, because we already have a scum today.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:58 am

MoS: No kill, obviously
VitaminR: No kill, just not worth killing him right now
SV: No kill, I think he's just misguided at worst, but possibly scum. It's not like I've made an effort to "look" protown this game.
Smashy: Kill, I've already explained why
Mnowax: Definitely Kill, reasoning should be obvious by now

Mastermind of Sin · Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:33 am

I would strongly advise against any consideration of a Shanba execution in the near future.

I'm not satisfied by Kscope's response to Shanba, but I think we have scummier people than him to deal with at the moment.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:39 am

mnowax wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:[
One other thing that has been strangly missing today is defenses; basically none of the people on my LOE have even tried to make an argument why they shouldn't be lynched or tried to respond to the points raised against them, which seems a bit odd to me.
I guess that there is no need to be defensive in this situation. you can kill me, you can not kill me. there is nothing that i can say that would change your mind one way or another. I am Town. That is the only defense that I need.

I really hate this reasoning/argument/bullshit

Mastermind of Sin · Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:58 am

Argh, not another one...

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:54 pm

PJ, it was meant to be an early-game determinant, since there really wasn't enough material to work with to make me think that anyone without any votes was there because they truly looked protown.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:07 am

If DR/Smashy/Replacement are indeed scum when they die eventually, I will be very suspicious of VitaminR and Battle Mage. That being, said, it's a long way off since I truly hope we get rid of mnowax today. At best, he's the scummy mcscum scum that he looks like, and at worst, he's a very bad townie.

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:48 am

mnowax wrote:I have been prodded, but i still have nothing to say.

the scum has given up...

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:13 am

LoL, for someone who professes that "looking" scummy doesn't necessarily make him scum, you seem intent on getting someone else executed for "looking" scummy. Great arguments there, chief.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:49 am

I'd quote you, but it's in an ongoing game, so that'd be breaking the rules to quote it. The point is, you get by in games because people become convinced that you just look scummy in every game, and you've accepted that as valid reasoning from them. Then you turn around and ask for me to be executed because I look scummy, when a quick skim over some past games or just simply asking people who have been around and are familiar with my games would reveal that I tend to look scummy in most every game I play, especially ones like this where I start off the game essentially telling you that I'm going to look scummy and that I don't really care if you don't like it.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am

lol, you haven't played with me much

Although I have to admit, my playstyle is markedly different than a normal game, given the theme and mechanics, so basing past games on how I look this game was probably not a valid argument on my part. Although, the same goes for you as well, I suppose.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm

Do we have a deadline? I hope not.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:17 am

Umm, I don't know what page, but I posted (and re-posted) a summary of most of the players a couple times during the game, that might help the reread.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:39 pm

probably not.

Mastermind of Sin · Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:09 pm

Methinks RafK is mnowax's scumbuddy, or just completely unobservant. Yosarian was not at all responsible for mnowax's jump to the forefront, I was the one that pointed out how scummy he was, and mnowax did all the work for me.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:28 am

And here they come out of the woodwork to protect mnowax. Took you long enough. You people don't read very well, do you?

Mastermind of Sin · Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:14 pm

RafK wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Methinks RafK is mnowax's scumbuddy, or just completely unobservant. Yosarian was not at all responsible for mnowax's jump to the forefront, I was the one that pointed out how scummy he was, and mnowax did all the work for me.
Yes and yes- but it was Yos' choice to do so. He's the king. He didn't have to give a crap what you poiinted out (for example, he hasn't put spectrumvoid or battle mage on the spot despite PJ's analysis). Yos is responsible for who he puts on the LOE and who he executes.

Yos: I never said I was in favour of executing Vitamin R/Phoebus, but you did and he was even on your initial list of suspects today. I'm pointing out your inconsistencies. My preferred executions are still you and SV, which I'm not likely to get while you're King. A Vitamin R lynch, however, would at least have one saving grace: presuming he turns up town, it would shine a light on those who tried to get him executed yesterday while they weren't personally responsible for it... a mnowax lynch provides relatively little information, since until now he hasn't been at the centre of discussion.

So are you trying to tell me that SV and BM haven't had a lot of discussion about them, because Yos didn't put them on the LoE? I'd like to see you explain that one.

It's not about whether or not he gives a crap about what someone says. It's whether or not he agrees with them enough to consider executing them. He happens to agree with my points against mnowax more than PJ's points against BM and SV, and he's not the only one. Mnowax was under a lot of suspicion well before Yos decided to put him on the LoE. In fact, if I remember correctly, Yos put mnowax on the LoE initially

because

of the amount of suspicion there was against him from the town on the whole. Yos did NOT bring mnowax into the spotlight, he was already there. Your whole argument is rather baseless.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:14 pm

EBWOP: And it looks to me like you're reaching to try and put pressure on Yos.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:11 am

<3 Skruffs

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:17 pm

Battle Mage wrote:good luck lol. you'll need it
Oh and btw-kill MoS while im away.

Skruffs wrote:Hi guys.
I'm, uh, I'm replacing Shanba.
Jesus.
*begins to read*

pfft.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:44 pm

a) I'm not scum
b) I openly declared that because of the mechanics of this game, I would be playing somewhat differently
c) All of the above

Mastermind of Sin · Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:48 pm

Mastermind of Sin · Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:42 am

No one on the LoE is nearly as good a choice as mnowax at this point. I don't think Battle Mage is worth the execution, he's getting replaced, so we'll be rid of his troublesome playstyle soon enough.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 04, 2007 10:21 am

*glares at Skruffs*

Why did you make DR king!?

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 04, 2007 10:29 am

NVM, Skruffs replaced after that happened. I forgive you.

I want to look more into mnowax2 (aka Battle Mage aka Smashy aka Dead Rikimaru) and Fritzler today. Since mnowax1 was protown, a lot of my suspicions connected to him are no longer valid. However, those two were near the top of my suspicions for other reasons, so I think they'd be a good execution today. I'll try to see who else looks scummy, although I probably won't have time until after Finals. We'll see.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 04, 2007 10:32 am

Interesting king choice, especially since Skruffs' predecessor was just about to pressure Zindie before he disappeared and had to be replaced...

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 04, 2007 11:39 am

Same here, both for the fact that the person he's replacing is probably scum, and because I'm not all that enthusiastic about having him in the game given past protown performance, not to mention his lack of activity in the first place.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 04, 2007 1:28 pm

I could see an SV-scum but I'd have to reread to see if I really think Yos is a scumpartner...

Mastermind of Sin · Sat May 05, 2007 9:54 am

Toaster Strudel wrote:Considering how painfully long it is to lynch someone in this game, zombies are extremely annoying. They undo all of yesterday's work, krrrap!!!

I think Yos is town. MoS's overwhelming eagerness reminds me of his behavior in Bad Idea Mafia II where he was the Godfather.

And I'll support PJ's campaign. I want to test PJ, really.

vote: MoS, SV

Uhh, what?

Mastermind of Sin · Sat May 05, 2007 10:04 am

mnowax wrote:
Vote MoS

I was quite suprized when i replaced battle mage what my role is now. I am still favoring a Master execution for the reasons that i have stated before. I am so far getting pro town vibes from Petrol-jelly

RafK wrote:How did we go from:

Yosarian's
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 511#544511
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 820#548820

in which mnowax wasn't on the shortlist or the final List of Execution, to mnowax not only joining the list but becoming Yos' main target?

My feeling on mnowax remains as it was: I don't have a strong read on him, either way, but the way this day has turned around and zero'd on him makes me feel that he's being set up as a "safe" kill... there's not going to be much information from mnowax because not many people (if any) have taken really strong stands about him, but at the same time he hasn't done anything especially townie that makes him look like an insupportable choice.

I am particularly amazed after all that has happened that Yosarian hasn't put his money where his mouth is and put Phoebus' replacement front and center for the lynch. Perhaps he's not interested in proving himself wrong?

I point this stuff out, of course, because I think we're watching a scum King at work and I would like to make sure his tactics are not missed.
I agree with Rafk here i believe that i was being set up for a kill here. I dont believe that Yos was in on it, but i do believe that a lot of the people who were Trying to take me down were scum. The following votes were placed on me:

Fritzler
Shamba
Thadmiral
Thesp
Toaster Strudel
and our King, Zinderas

More to come.

Mnowax, unless you've actually got reasons why I'm scum, please just shut up about it and try to be useful. You were executed yesterday because you attacked me using craplogic and then failed to defend yourself, not because a ton of scum jumped on your wagon. I wouldn't be surprised if a scum jumped on the wagon later, but that's because you were legitimately scummy and full of shit. Instead of just OMGUSing everyone who legitimately thought mnowax1 was scummy, how about you read through and actually give good reasons for your suspicions.

Here's some things to get you started actually contributing:

What do you think of Spectrumvoid, Yosarian2, Zindaras, Fritzler, and RafK, individually?

Why do you think Zindaras was elected King?

Do you think there is a connection between SV and Yos2?

What do you think of petroleumjelly's analysis's of everyone so far?

Why do you think mnowax1 completely failed to defend himself against legitimate points brought up against him that explained why he was scum?

Mastermind of Sin · Sun May 06, 2007 6:04 am

Go Thesp, Go!

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 07, 2007 11:14 am

Sadly enough, I agree with Fritz-scum's above post.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue May 08, 2007 5:16 pm

Actually, mnowax, I think everyone sees it, they've just realized that I'm acting scummy as a result of my pre-planned playstyle this game

.

Thok, if possible, could you list out a bit of an explanation of why you think I'm scum? I'd like a chance to respond to it. As you can see, I've been attacked many times in the past, and to date, I've responded adequately to every reason brought against me. Had I not, I would not be living right now, so if there's anything you don't think has been covered yet, feel free to bring it up.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed May 09, 2007 5:24 am

Toaster Strudel wrote:This latest missive from MoS is uber-weird. PRE-PLANNED PLAYSTYLE???

Gimme a break.

vote: MoS

Mastermind of Sin in his first post of the game wrote:And now begins my masterful plan of finally playing through an entire game without voting. Unless I become king, lol.

GG retention skills...

Mastermind of Sin · Wed May 09, 2007 5:25 am

petroleumjelly wrote:Hmm. "Thok" should be "Thesp", MoS - and I agree that I would like to see exactly where all those X's came from. If he has notes (inferred, but not definitely so), he shouldn't have much trouble relocating what he found scummy.

However, this:

MoS wrote:As you can see, I've been attacked many times in the past, and to date, I've responded adequately to every reason brought against me.
Had I not, I would not be living right now
, so if there's anything you don't think has been covered yet, feel free to bring it up.
Doesn't follow. All it means is that none of the Kings we've had so far has executed you. Otherwise everybody could claim "I must have responded adequately to everything brought against me, because I haven't been executed".

That was me being somewhat overdramatic. *shrug* Even so, I've been attacked pretty hard by a lot of people

and

been on one if not more LoE's, so my point still stands, if not to the severity of degree that I previously stated.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed May 09, 2007 5:31 am

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I support either a Yos or Pooky execution, good finds, Glork. I'd still prefer Yos, though.

This is the only post I could find that mentioned Pooky before he was executed. Just so you know.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 10, 2007 12:08 am

Toaster Strudel wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:GG retention skills...
What's GG?

Good Game

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 10, 2007 12:09 am

RafK wrote:I think it's worth knowing which way you're thinking at this point, though.

The mnowax execution has changed extremely little since he wasn't a focal point for any of the ongoing arguments through the last couple of days (which if you listen to me is a strong sign of Yos being scum, given that he avoided executing anyone he'd previously argued against). I suspect that a lot of the town (those talking, anyway) probably feel like they'd just be repeating themselves if they re-stated their opinions now. I know I would. It's just statements, not argument. There's no-one in particular to convince.

The argument begins once the block is set up and we have something to argue over and someone to convince.

That's pretty much how I feel.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 11, 2007 9:32 am

yea lowell's not a bad guy to look at today, either.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 11, 2007 9:49 am

Yos pretty much covered it right there. Person C is the scummiest of the lot, by far. At least Persons A and B are putting in some effort and not trying to slide in to the rear yelling the battlecry from safety.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 11, 2007 10:22 am

But is Yos making an argument for RafK being suspicious?

Mastermind of Sin · Sun May 13, 2007 12:16 pm

Thesp wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Actually, mnowax, I think everyone sees it, they've just realized that I'm acting scummy as a result of my pre-planned playstyle this game
No, you're acting scummy because you're scum.

Hardly. Are you sure you've played in games where I've been scum before?

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Thok, if possible, could you list out a bit of an explanation of why you think I'm scum? I'd like a chance to respond to it. As you can see, I've been attacked many times in the past, and to date, I've responded adequately to every reason brought against me. Had I not, I would not be living right now, so if there's anything you don't think has been covered yet, feel free to bring it up.
This last statement is flat-out wrong. There are a number of reasons you could be alive which are unrelated to how adequately you may or may not have responded to accusations. (As I read further, looks like PJ beat me to this observation.)

Did you also read further to see me explain this statement in response to PJ's observation, or are you doing selective reading?

Also, I think defenses are highly overrated. Your eagerness to prove yourself as worthy to respond to accusation bothers me, and seems to be more like something scum would be eager to do. (The scum mentality argument frequently goes something like this - "Make a good argument against me which I don't refute / I refute all your arguments, whether you agree with my refutation or not / You have no basis on which to lynch me, how dare you think you can".)

My playstyle in general bothers a lot of people. That doesn't make me scum. Also, my only point with the reference to refuting arguments is that the MoS-hate had died down for the most part recently. If people had not agreed with my refutation of earlier points brought up against me, I do not see why this would happen. Therefore, on the basis that people must have agreed at least somewhat with my refutations, I asked if you had something new to bring to the table.

petroleumjelly wrote:Hmm. "Thok" should be "Thesp", MoS - and I agree that I would like to see exactly where all those X's came from. If he has notes (inferred, but not definitely so), he shouldn't have much trouble relocating what he found scummy.
My notes are not terribly detailed, but vague references I made as I went along. I had the benefit of knowing some of who's town and who's scum in the readthrough. Here's what I sketched:
Thesp's Notes on MAstermind of Sin wrote:X - Wifom
Of course.

X - attacks Vaughn indirectly via bad argument (184)
What? So, someone says that Vaughn not lurking is a sign that he is protown, and I point out that he often lurks as protown, too. First off, I see where you might think it is an attack on Vaughn, but it's not. It was an attack on the crap logic that MBL admitted was craplogic in his next post, meaning I was right. Secondly, how is pointing out the
facts
making a bad argument? I fail to see where an argument was made, other than pointing out that MBL's assumption was wrong.

X - strong irrational defense of Phoebus, rattles off three people that might be scum, including 2 townies and Yos
And? Day one is fun, ain't it?

X - Tries to have his cake and eat it too
I do love my cake. Why didn't anyone tell me there was cake in this game?

X - Pooky is overly vague in suspicion of townieness on him
And Pooky was scum.

X - Tries to accentuate he was willing to see Pooky swing
Why wouldn't I, when someone says that I wasn't willing to see Pooky swing? If I died and came up scum, and someone accused you of not wanting me to be lynched, would you not accentuate that you had in fact said you DID want me to be lynched?

X - WIFOM again with condescension
It's a new fad for me.

X - refuses to read prior players for insight
And? I know how it sucks to replace someone who was being scummy and was actually town. It fucking blows. So here I am, trying to be nice about it and let people get by on their own merits. That's not such a bad thing, is it?

X - "Trap" post
Explain, please.

L2Der Hammer - requests prodding rather than replacement
And? How is this scummy? I would much rather NOT replace people whenever possible, for the same reason that it really sucks to try and read a replacement since they can't tell you why their predecessors did anything, so prodding is always the first option.

X - Pushes mnowax execution
And? He was legitimately scummy. Since when is being wrong an inherently scummy thing?

X - "And at worst..." argument
Am I wrong?

XX - Asserts his unreadability
You go count the number of times I'm lynched as town as opposed to scum and tell me I'm wrong. While you're at it, pay special attention to games where I'm scum.

X - intimidates mnowax defenders
Yup. That was pretty fun.

I've seen a lot of blatant WIFOM rom MoS in regards to his chosen playstyle this game (which is overly vague and problematic in its own right), and have been uncomfortable with many of his arguments. I was uncomfortable with Pooky's words on MoS, and even less comfortable at MoS's lack of words on Pooky, when it's clear that Pooky has been worth discussion (and notably, MoS's only words are passing words of support for a Pooky execution, while more strongly pushing another bandwagon, a hallmark fo wanting to appear against a scumbuddy).
Erm, how is my playstyle "overly vague"? You're just talking out of your ass, now. My very first post explained my playstyle pretty clearly. Also, it would be nice if you pointed out the WIFOM instead of just saying it exists. Then write a 50-word essay about the effectiveness of WIFOM and Jeep's Scumtells in finding scum after they were published. Thanks.

RafK wrote:He said from day 1 that he was going to refuse to vote, and that's what got him into trouble from the start. It's not something he just invented.
I'm not sure you've read MoS's post very well, especially given Toaster Strudel's very rational response.

Please explain how Toaster Strudel not believing that I had a pre-planned playstyle showcased a rational response that showed attention to detail and having read the thread before posting.

Anything else?

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 14, 2007 10:08 am

Here is my earlier analysis of Fritzler:

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Fritzler:
Day 1 -
- Asks pj to kill CTD
- Likes Mert
- Vouches for Pooky
- Wants CTD dead
- Agrees with Glork's CTD vote
- Asks why CTD isn't dead yet
- Votes CTD
- Agrees with Twomz's post that Fritzler is one of the funnier players in the game
- Says that SV confused pj with pooky about keyboard problems
- Asks if we can kill CTD now
- Says "duh" that he's protown, claims everything he says has intrinsic merit, says "duh" that he found something with CTD, fixes Glork's D1 suspicion list to only include CTD
- wants us to check out his sig
- Wants to know why CTD isn't on any of pj's lists for execution possibility
- Calls pj CTD's scumbuddy
Day 2 -
- Wants glork to reread CTD's posts quickly
- Says MBL being scum in the last mountainous game bodes ill for him this game
- Claims to be Pooky's scumbuddy
- Basically calls StallingChamp a hypocrit, for voting Pooky/Fritz/MoS for lack of content
- Calls StallingChamp a rookie that shouldn't speak
- Pointless response to co-mod post
- Asks Glork to kill either CTD or himself (Fritzler)
Day 3 -
- Asks why he isn't king, votes Nightson
- Claims that Yosarian, Spectrumvoid, Kscope are his top 3 suspects
- Says that Nightson shouldn't bother rereading because he's going to die
- Says he'd execute Glork if he was king
- Another pointless response to Mod

Result: What happened to CTD? Fritzler never gave a good reason to suspect him in the first place (And i think CTD has been fairly protown), but after Day 1 he only mentions him once, and by Day 3 he has whole new suspicions out of nowhere. This has parallels to my play this game, with the exception that I don't believe I have clamored for someone's death so adamantly, only to drop them out of existence. Also, for being so similar to my play this game, I don't think he's come under that much fire from other players beyond the occasional vote, whereas I have been attacked by the majority of the players in this game, nearly. I could see him as scum, or perhaps just lazy. Wouldn't mind seeing him hang.

More Result: Mentions CTD once more Day 3: "are we finally killing CTD?"
Only one post today, saying he disagreed with mnowax's post saying who he thought was scum. Don't wanna to a PBPA of what happened since my last one, but he hasn't dont anything useful or any sort of contribution since then, so I still think he's a probable scum sitting mostly under the radar.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 14, 2007 10:26 am

VitaminR:

- Will reread
- Says he'll do a quicker reread since he was getting attacked
- Slight scum vibe against Dead Rikimaru
- At page 16, thinks SV and PJ are scum, Pablito and MoS town
- One of Rafk/KaleiDoscope is scum for jumping on the pooky wagon quickly
- Fritz is suspicious (w/ reasons), Zindie is protown
- Fritz is protown for actually participating. Undecided about PJ, votes SV, RafK, and Kscope. Don't execute MoS, VR, or Smashy, execute SV
- Thinks Pablito has been consistent and protown
- Likes Shanba's posts
- Wants to hear from Yos
- Doesn't want Yos to ignore SV
- Outlines reasons for SV vote
- Tries to explain his predecessors actions
- Responds to SV's responses, still wants her execution
- Asks Yos what he thinks of the SV case
- Says the SV is scummy because of a pattern, not a single scummy thing
- Explains his change of stance against Dead Rikimaru, emphasizes that he is not wishy washy about MoS being town
- Continues previous post
- Addresses PJ's points against him, posts analysis of DR/Smashy.
- Doesn't think Yos's position against him is justified
- Explains above post
- Explains vote on Rafk
- Explains vote on Kscope
- Elaborates on above post
- More argument with Yos and Rafk
- Unvotes Kscope
- Asks SV to respond to PJ's analysis
- Doesn't want a mnowax lynch, still wants SV dead
- Agrees with RafK's argument against Yos about VR suspicion
- Response to Yos
- Votes SV, likes RafK's recent posting, FoSs Yos
- Asks how Zindie is reminded of VR's Space Monkey playstyle

Results: I get a fairly good vibe from VitaminR. He's consistent and reasonable in his posts, I wouldn't want him executed any time soon. I do have a few questions for him, though.

VR, could you update us as to how you feel about the following people right now:

Dead Rikimaru/Smashy/BM/mnowax
PJ
Pablito
MoS
Kscope
RafK
Fritzler

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 14, 2007 12:37 pm

Thesp wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Did you also read further to see me explain this statement in response to PJ's observation, or are you doing selective reading?
Pardon me for thinking you were full of crap with that statement as well. (I think my argument was a stronger version of PJ's, FYI.)

Even if you thought it was crap, you still failed to address it. Also note that I have since then re-addressed it to answer your specific "version" of the argument.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:My playstyle in general bothers a lot of people. That doesn't make me scum.
I agree. It's your role PM that makes you scum.

I repeat. When's the last time you've seen a game where I was scum?

Am I to assume that you then agree with my answers to the rest of your points since you saw fit to not respond to them?

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 14, 2007 1:57 pm

I agree with Yos xD

Mastermind of Sin · Tue May 15, 2007 5:18 am

Why do you think Fritzler is protown, VitaminR?

Mastermind of Sin · Tue May 15, 2007 6:11 pm

Thesp wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Even if you thought it was crap, you still failed to address it. Also note that I have since then re-addressed it to answer your specific "version" of the argument.
I don't feel like making everyone else wade through crap all the time. I think it's less significant than other things that could be said, and enough was said for people to make up their minds about it without me saying, "I disagree".

I find it very hard to believe that you could completely disagree with my response, unless of course you are making the mistake of assuming I am scum and basing your responses off the assumed fact that I am scum.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I repeat. When's the last time you've seen a game where I was scum?
What's the significance of this question? Am I unqualified to think of you as scum if I've not read a game with you as scum? Am I privy to special and helpful information if I have?

Yes to the second question.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Am I to assume that you then agree with my answers to the rest of your points since you saw fit to not respond to them?
No, I just don't feel like getting into the online verbal equivalent of a slap-fight. I disagree with you and think you're lying about your motivations. You think I'm mistaken or being deceitful. I'm not sure where we go from there. I suspect that even if I were to convince you that you were scum (perhaps you'd forgotten what your role PM said), you wouldn't assent to it. There were two things I'd been pondering on, which I felt like commenting on since -

I don't particularly feel you are being deceitful. I'm not sure where you picked that up from, I haven't tried to attack you in any way since you started attacking me.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:And? I know how it sucks to replace someone who was being scummy and was actually town. It fucking blows. So here I am, trying to be nice about it and let people get by on their own merits. That's not such a bad thing, is it?
(A similar argument may have been brought up, or it may have been poor recollections of my mind imagining this argument as I read.) What you are trying to do here is eliminate tools we have for finding scum. Suppose a player had said, "I'm scum. I'm scummity scum scum scum." Suppose, for a moment, we believe such a statement to be an indication of being scum. Then, said player leaves the site after an answer is demanded of his replacement. What you are to suggest in such a situation is that we ignore the actions of the predecessor, which are clearly helpful in lynching correctly. The replacement may not be able to answer why his predecessor went crazy, but he does indeed have the same role, regardless.

If someone did something like that I would vote them regardless of replacement. However, when the only previous actions are slightly scummy or not at all, I much prefer to give the person a relatively clean slate, because it's bullshit to ask them to explain why the person they replaced did something slightly scummy.

I am not intimating that such slam-dunk cases exist here, but certainly those tools are available, and to actively discourage use of them is anti-town. It remains to be seen whether it is borne of scummy motivation, but I suspect it is. I feel like it was said to pre-empt an attempt to examine a scumbuddy on the basis of his scummy predecessor. I am uncertain of whom it might be, but I would be very keen on examining more closely should you turn up scum.

I won't, you'll be sorely disappointed.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Erm, how is my playstyle "overly vague"? You're just talking out of your ass, now. My very first post explained my playstyle pretty clearly.
I find it fascinating that you claim to have a nigh unreadable alignment and are constantly misunderstood, and simultaenously assert that your suspicions and lynch desires are evident. Suppose for a moment you are making a serious inquiry of another player, in trying to divine their motive. It is not clear as to whether or not you suspect them. Should they turn up scum, it seems you'd be able to point to this interaction and assert, "I was suspicious of them", and should they turn up town, assert, "I was trying to determine their townieness". It allows you to prod scumbuddies fairly openly, allowing them the opportunity to receive in-thread correction about possible scummy indicators, while allowing you the levity to not be pinned on it one way or the other (or worse, be credited one way or the other). Votes and FOS'es are significant because they're
tangible
. They give us further markers to examine player interactions. In an essentially mountainous game, the fact that you flatly want to deny such player interactions is telling to me.

So, you're asserting that I haven't been clear in who I wanted executed, I haven't ever said something to the effect of "we should execute x", and I haven't ever proclaimed that I thought someone was protown? Votes are not the only way to indicate how you feel about someone. If you can prove that I've done none of the above (all of which are just as tangible as a vote or FoS), then maybe you have a case. Maybe.

Now, you have every right to say, "Nuh uh", as you likely will (I would), but please understand if I don't believe what you say. I don't mind hearing what you have to say if you feel so inclined to do so, but also don't assume that simply answering my assertions makes them go away as if you are correct. I'm not going to have a contest to see who can answer the most, but you can bet I'll answer if I feel it'll be worthwhile to read. (And I have the time/energy at that moment. )

Yet another indication that you are operating on the

assumption

that I am scum. You have convinced yourself that I am scum, so no amount of reasonable posting by myself can convince you otherwise.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 17, 2007 9:33 am

Thesp wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I repeat. When's the last time you've seen a game where I was scum?
What's the significance of this question? Am I unqualified to think of you as scum if I've not read a game with you as scum? Am I privy to special and helpful information if I have?
Yes to the second question.
I was hoping you'd say this. The most recent game appears to be so recent it can't be discussed (it's an ongoing game). There are ethical concerns which prevent me from going further on that.

To be fair, if you want to call upon the

most

recent game, that would be Bad Idea II, which is not an ongoing game. Just sayin'.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:If someone did something like that I would vote them regardless of replacement. However, when the only previous actions are slightly scummy or not at all, I much prefer to give the person a relatively clean slate, because it's bullshit to ask them to explain why the person they replaced did something slightly scummy.
But why bother asking them to explain what their predecessor did, and only
use
what the predecessor said or did? Sure, the replacement may not be able to answer for their predecessors actions, but it's still
useful
. If someone replaces now, you're asking us to disregard 80+ pages of information, which seems absurd to me.

You're not reading my statements. If their predecessor did something terribly scummy, that could factor into a vote. However, if they were only slightly scummy or neutral, I'm not going to waste my time and everyone else's trying to press the issue.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:So, you're asserting that I haven't been clear in who I wanted executed, I haven't ever said something to the effect of "we should execute x", and I haven't ever proclaimed that I thought someone was protown?
This argument is also crap. There are some where it's abundantly clear (for example, your thoughts on mnowax the 1st), but for most players, it's not at all clear. You seem to ignore this, even when other people have asserted it's not clear, by saying "read my posts", then wondering why everyone's questioning you on this.
Simply because you are clear on an occasional instance does not mean it is clear in
most
instances.
For further example, it's thoroughy ambiguous (to me, at least) as to whether or not you have suspicion of me. Votes and FOS's aren't the only way to express suspicion or a desire to see someone lynched, but they are the clearest and easiest way to indicate that. Your deliberate obfuscation is troubling.

I've said "read my posts" only once or twice, and only in the early game. Since then, I have been more than clear on who I thought should be executed. Do I really have to go back and quote it all out for you? I don't want to waste people's time with a quote chain if I don't have to.

MoS in response to Thesp wrote:I don't particularly feel you are being deceitful. I'm not sure where you picked that up from, I haven't tried to attack you in any way since you started attacking me.

Reading retention, much?

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Yet another indication that you are operating on the assumption that I am scum. You have convinced yourself that I am scum, so no amount of reasonable posting by myself can convince you otherwise.
Why must it be that I'm operating under the assumption that you're scum, rather than I might read what you have to say and simply think that you're not being honest? I've changed my mind before on people's responses - to this post I've read yours and I don't think they're coming from a townie. I don't think this is as unreasonable as you seem to be making it out to be.

It looks like there's some other conversation going on not involving MoS that looks far less interesting. I'll take a look at it later - I'm behind in a couple of my games.

Considering that you're just flat out

wrong

on some of your "points" against me, it's certainly as unreasonable as I'm making it out to be. You aren't stopping to fully check your facts before you accuse me of things. You are taking actions of mine from the early game and assuming they have been reciprocated throughout the duration of the game, without actually checking to see if that was the case. If you had checked, you wouldn't have accused me of such things.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 17, 2007 1:14 pm

Why should I agree to disagree? You are completely convinced I'm scum and I'm not, so I'm doing everything in my power to point out where you're wrong in your arguments so that you realize I'm not scum and can actually help us find the true scum. Agreeing to disagree wouldn't help us at all.

And like I said. If you can't find where you're wrong in your accusations, just let me know, and I'll quote posts that prove you completely wrong. I'm just giving you a chance to see it for yourself first.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 17, 2007 1:34 pm

Oh yes, Thesp. You are totally correct in saying that I haven't been clear on how I felt about people this game. Not at all.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:box is protown. Not very intelligent, it seems, but protown.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:You should also consider executing one of Thok, Ubertimmy, or Yosarian2. I bet at least one of them is scum.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I support either a Yos or Pooky execution, good finds, Glork. I'd still prefer Yos, though.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:And now for the fun to begin. I'm going to post an analysis of each player, and I'll hopefully get through a third of the game today. If anything, my summary of their actions should give you some good reference to work with. I would suggest directing replacements to these posts in the future.

CrashTestDummie:
Day 1 -
- Votes Glork for wanting the King dead Day 1
- Votes Pablito for defending Glork
- Votes bird1111 for "joke voting" Glork and Pablito, then unvoting them later
- Has townie vibes from Glork but is more suspicious of Pablito for not getting on Bird's case enough
Day 2 -
- Confused by pablito's play, unvotes
- wants pressure on ubertimmy, doesn't state reasons
- votes PJ for lynching Rosso on short notice
- votes StallingChamp for a post lost during the crash
- votes Twomz for bandwagon hopping and asking putting Burden of Proof on the victim instead of the attacker
- votes ubertimmy again for lurking
- attacks pablito for giving pj blanket immunity for his actions Day 1
- Agrees with MBL's stance on PJ and Pablito
- Sees no reason to execute Yos or MBL, claims confusion over Pooky and Pablito, and needs to reread Mert. Only StallingChamp should remain on the LoE
- Suspicious of LL's "too many townies" in his initial analysis
- Makes solid (imo) defense against Zindaras's attack on him (thrice)
- Finishes reread of Mert and agrees that he should be on the LoE
- Questions PJ's stance on Mert based on previous games he's player with him
- Doesn't want Yos or Pooky to be executed, prefers StallingChamp and Twomz
- Asserts that he doesn't quite think Yos and Pooky are scum, but that there isn't a case against Yos and that Pooky has been giving off protown vibes
Day 3 -
- No Posts Yet

Result: I am fairly impressed by CrashTextDummie so far. I largely feel protown vibes from him, and the only thing that seems a little off-color was his insistence that Pooky was protown, even given the fact that Pooky largely did nothing besides his one big analysis. Perhaps my timeline is off, however. I would not want to see a CTD execution anytime soon.

Dead Rikimaru:
Day 1 -
- Considers distancing tactic between pablito and Glork
- Claims that he didn't promote a pablito/Glork pairing, just that pablito is trying hard to be paired with pablito, can't think of a protown reason for it
Day 2 -
- votes pablito, no additional reasoning
- No post from Oct 27 until Dec 12, nothing of substance or length until Dec 18
- Doesn't find Yos scummy (good post)
- Claims to be unable to read Pooky, prefers him over Yos
- Amused that the LoE only contains those who have criticized Glork
Day 3 -
- Ask for top 3 suspects from each player
- Doesn't believe in randomly executing lurkers
- Calls for prods on lurkers
- Asks why Glork would bus a scumbuddy early in the game (My answer: Because he knows someone like you would ask yourself this question. Glork has admitted to being willing to bus any and all partners if he thinks it will get him a free pass through the game)
- States there are too many lurkers
- Asks me if my position on Phoebus is the same (I'll get to him eventually)

Result: I'm fairly unimpressed with Dead Rikimaru's play so far. I believe he has contradicted himself Day 1, been generally unhelpful and non-committal Day 2, and has barely offered any of his own insight into the game. His Day 3 actions have been far better than the first two days, but that is to be expected from the pressure of being King. Even so, asking for suspects and collecting reasoning is a good way to pick people to go after without having to dig up your own reasoning (he can use a conglomeration of other person's reasoning to get a protown player lynched), and being concerned with lurkers is something that scum often do to try and look helpful and protown. Everyone is concerned with lurkers, but scum tend to overdo it a bit. I could definitely see Dead Rikimaru as scum right now.

Der Hammer:
Result: Der Hammer has 5 posts, all of which are him saying that he was gonna or is going to post his thoughts soon, but he keeps getting delayed. His most recent post said he would post his thoughts 3 days ago. I could see him as lurking scum, and definitely not useful at the very least. He needs to post substance soon.

Fritzler:
Day 1 -
- Asks pj to kill CTD
- Likes Mert
- Vouches for Pooky
- Wants CTD dead
- Agrees with Glork's CTD vote
- Asks why CTD isn't dead yet
- Votes CTD
- Agrees with Twomz's post that Fritzler is one of the funnier players in the game
- Says that SV confused pj with pooky about keyboard problems
- Asks if we can kill CTD now
- Says "duh" that he's protown, claims everything he says has intrinsic merit, says "duh" that he found something with CTD, fixes Glork's D1 suspicion list to only include CTD
- wants us to check out his sig
- Wants to know why CTD isn't on any of pj's lists for execution possibility
- Calls pj CTD's scumbuddy
Day 2 -
- Wants glork to reread CTD's posts quickly
- Says MBL being scum in the last mountainous game bodes ill for him this game
- Claims to be Pooky's scumbuddy
- Basically calls StallingChamp a hypocrit, for voting Pooky/Fritz/MoS for lack of content
- Calls StallingChamp a rookie that shouldn't speak
- Pointless response to co-mod post
- Asks Glork to kill either CTD or himself (Fritzler)
Day 3 -
- Asks why he isn't king, votes Nightson
- Claims that Yosarian, Spectrumvoid, Kscope are his top 3 suspects
- Says that Nightson shouldn't bother rereading because he's going to die
- Says he'd execute Glork if he was king
- Another pointless response to Mod

Result: What happened to CTD? Fritzler never gave a good reason to suspect him in the first place (And i think CTD has been fairly protown), but after Day 1 he only mentions him once, and by Day 3 he has whole new suspicions out of nowhere. This has parallels to my play this game, with the exception that I don't believe I have clamored for someone's death so adamantly, only to drop them out of existence. Also, for being so similar to my play this game, I don't think he's come under that much fire from other players beyond the occasional vote, whereas I have been attacked by the majority of the players in this game, nearly. I could see him as scum, or perhaps just lazy. Wouldn't mind seeing him hang.

Glork's is gonna take a while, and I have class soon, so it'll have to wait until later.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I skipped Glork, pablito, PJ, Yosarian2, and Zindaras, since they have a crapload of posts. Here's everyone else.

KaleiDoscope (Replacing Bird):

Day 2 -
- Suspicious of CDB and PJ, notes Pab/Glork connection and MoS trusting people early
- Suspicious of Pablito, CDB, and Pooky (and votes them), also somewhat suspicious of Fritz, Phoebus, and PJ (Gives reasoning)
- Undecided about LuckayLuck, thinks Glork's play is a little off, thinks MBL is town, also thinks Zindaras is town
- Unvotes CDB when Lowell replaces him
Day 3 -
- Votes Pablito
- Not convinced that MoS is scum yet, interested in MoS's replies
- Suspicious of Yos
- Not happy about MoS bandwagon
- Top 3: Pablito, Der Hammer, Phoebus

Result: I'm not seeing Kscope as particularly town or scum right now (OMG he placed him in his neutral category, scumbuddies LOLOLOL!). He has come a long way from Bird's behavior, but I would like to know what he thinks of Fritzler and PJ still. He named them on his suspicions list yesterday but hasn't touched them since, contenting with ONLY a Pablito vote until asked to give 3 suspects.

Lowell (Replacing CDB):

Day 2 -
- Declares Zindaras as most protown player so far, also MBL is high up there. Lists CTD as well. Phoebus and MoS considered protown, insinuates that MoS has attempted to become King. No opinion of Nightson or Pooky, neutral towards SV, neutralish towards PJ. Votes Yos, Pablito, and LuckayLuck with reasoning.
- Comes up with a plan to have the Kingmaker out themselves every day and act as proxy to the King, guaranteeing a protown executioner.
- Comes up with a plan to have everyone make a List of Good Kings for the Kingmaker to get ideas from.
- Wants to know how Glork narrowed his list to Yos and Pooky. Declares Kscope protown.
Day 3 -
- Confused as to choice of new King
- Asks King to help pressure the lurkers
- Thinks Glork is town (with reasoning)
- Votes SV and MoS, SV for freudian slip and MoS for recent efforts not seeming protownish. Thinks Rafk is town
- Votes CTD

Result: I'm getting a protown feel from Lowell. He's getting involved and presenting his own arguments for his suspicions. He also came up with two good plans that I didn't see before and apparently didn't get a lot of discussion. I see no reason why we shouldn't use the plans Lowell came up with. We need to implement them now, especially after we got a scummy person as king (Dead Rik). The Kingmaker could use input and reasoning as to who would make a good king.

Mert:

Day 1 -
- Votes CDB
- Speculates about good strategy for forming an LoE
- Votes MoS and Bird for their voting patterns
- Disagrees that parallels between CDB and RA from KM 1 point to CDB being town
- Votes Phoebus for not being helpful, unvotes MoS for being more vocal
- Wonders why pablito is acting so strange intentionally
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz and Pooky for the nutkicking theory (supporting it)
- Asks for replacement

Results: Generally protownish feeling, nothing strong. He needs to be replaced.

Nightfall (Replacing UberTimmy):

Day 2 -
- 1 post, Dec. 16th.

Results: He needs to be replaced.

Nightson:

Day 1 -
- Votes pablito and phoebus, thinks cdb is town
- Defends reasoning for his votes
Day 2 -
- Votes Twomz for stuff lost in crash
- Thinks MBL, Glork, and PJ are town, not sure about Pablito
- Unvotes, has a problem with a Yos execution
- Votes pablito and MBL (for logical fallacies)
- Will reread (Dec 5)
- Will reread (Jan 3)
- Will reread (Jan 10)

Result: Needs to be replaced.

Olio:

Day 2 -
- Votes pablito, LuckayLuck, and Nightson
- Asks pablito why he voted him
Day 3 -
- Top 3 suspects: pablito, LuckayLuck, Nightson; SV and MoS are contenders for T3
- Votes MoS for changing his mind without explanations
- Thinks townies need to know why someone was lynched, not just who should be lynched.

Results: I'm neutral to Olio. He's done more than this, I just wrote what stood out to me. He hasn't done anything scummy.

Phoebus:

Day 1 -
- Votes MBL, CDB, and pablito
- Votes mert
- Gives reason for votes as joining bandwagons after reading
Day 2 -
- Doesn't like bird's opening post, votes Bird
- Votes pablito and Yosarian, gut reasoning
- Said he would be more active Day 3

Results: I believe he asked for replacement, but I feel that he was being genuine in his posts. I will have to see how his replacement does.

Samus:

Day 2 -
- Single post (Dec 16)

Results: He needs to be replaced, NOW

Mastermind of Sin wrote:It's not hard to make a correct summary as scum. You merely restate facts that
anyone in the game can double check, so if you were wrong you'd be screwed
. Making a summary means nothing unless you state some opinions based on your summary and analyze it, something DR completely failed to do. His summary looks like an attempt to look protown without actually helping out very much, since anyone that had read the thread would know most of what he said anyways. He failed to make an LOE or execute someone because he went AFK from the site, not because he's protown. In fact, saying that he's protown because he failed to fulfill his duties as king makes no sense at all. Being away from the site has no indication of alignment. It simply means you're
gone
.

As for PJ, how can you call his reign as king very town-like, when he put someone on his LOE last minute and executed them before they had a chance to defend themselves. Deadline isn't much of an excuse, since it's his fault for putting them on the chopping block so close to deadline. That's hardly protown play. He may have made other actions that were protown, but his reign as king was definitely NOT a point in his favor.

I'd like to add LL to my top three list, making it DR/Smashy and LL (with PJ at a lesser third spot for now).

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Smashy needs to be executed, see my previous reasoning.

Mastermind of Sin wrote: I would also support a Fritzler execution.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I would suggest strongly considering a mnowax execution. Look back at his posts, he has posted pretty much all one-liners without contribution, voting people for no good reason. For the third time this game he has voted me, and his reasons for those votes are as follows:

Vote 1: No Reason Given
Vote 2: Shameless Bandwagoning
Vote 3: "i dunno but i guess"

His other votes (and the reasoning given) have been:

Dead Rikimaru - "kill anyone!"
Smashy - "DR was stalling too much"
pablito - "For getting me into this game with his sig!"
Smashy - "i thought Dead was scum, sorry"
Toaster Strudel - "i like pop tarts biatch!"

His only reasonable votes have been the ones on Smashy, and he's just taking other people's reasoning and then even acting like he's sorry for voting him. Really, if you think someone is scum, don't be sorry for voting their replacement. That's just silly.

It looks to me like mnowax is just posting enough to not be called a lurker, but not actually being useful in any way, shape, or form. He's also muddying things for our king by making it look like there is more suspicion on people than there really is, when he doesn't even really think that person is scum or have a reason to vote them.

I like a mnowax execution better than a Fritzler one, even.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:I would strongly advise against any consideration of a Shanba execution in the near future.

I'm not satisfied by Kscope's response to Shanba, but I think we have scummier people than him to deal with at the moment.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:NVM, Skruffs replaced after that happened. I forgive you.

I want to look more into mnowax2 (aka Battle Mage aka Smashy aka Dead Rikimaru) and Fritzler today. Since mnowax1 was protown, a lot of my suspicions connected to him are no longer valid. However, those two were near the top of my suspicions for other reasons, so I think they'd be a good execution today. I'll try to see who else looks scummy, although I probably won't have time until after Finals. We'll see.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Here is my earlier analysis of Fritzler:

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Fritzler:
Day 1 -
- Asks pj to kill CTD
- Likes Mert
- Vouches for Pooky
- Wants CTD dead
- Agrees with Glork's CTD vote
- Asks why CTD isn't dead yet
- Votes CTD
- Agrees with Twomz's post that Fritzler is one of the funnier players in the game
- Says that SV confused pj with pooky about keyboard problems
- Asks if we can kill CTD now
- Says "duh" that he's protown, claims everything he says has intrinsic merit, says "duh" that he found something with CTD, fixes Glork's D1 suspicion list to only include CTD
- wants us to check out his sig
- Wants to know why CTD isn't on any of pj's lists for execution possibility
- Calls pj CTD's scumbuddy
Day 2 -
- Wants glork to reread CTD's posts quickly
- Says MBL being scum in the last mountainous game bodes ill for him this game
- Claims to be Pooky's scumbuddy
- Basically calls StallingChamp a hypocrit, for voting Pooky/Fritz/MoS for lack of content
- Calls StallingChamp a rookie that shouldn't speak
- Pointless response to co-mod post
- Asks Glork to kill either CTD or himself (Fritzler)
Day 3 -
- Asks why he isn't king, votes Nightson
- Claims that Yosarian, Spectrumvoid, Kscope are his top 3 suspects
- Says that Nightson shouldn't bother rereading because he's going to die
- Says he'd execute Glork if he was king
- Another pointless response to Mod

Result: What happened to CTD? Fritzler never gave a good reason to suspect him in the first place (And i think CTD has been fairly protown), but after Day 1 he only mentions him once, and by Day 3 he has whole new suspicions out of nowhere. This has parallels to my play this game, with the exception that I don't believe I have clamored for someone's death so adamantly, only to drop them out of existence. Also, for being so similar to my play this game, I don't think he's come under that much fire from other players beyond the occasional vote, whereas I have been attacked by the majority of the players in this game, nearly. I could see him as scum, or perhaps just lazy. Wouldn't mind seeing him hang.
More Result: Mentions CTD once more Day 3: "are we finally killing CTD?"
Only one post today, saying he disagreed with mnowax's post saying who he thought was scum. Don't wanna to a PBPA of what happened since my last one, but he hasn't dont anything useful or any sort of contribution since then, so I still think he's a probable scum sitting mostly under the radar.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:VitaminR:

- Will reread
- Says he'll do a quicker reread since he was getting attacked
- Slight scum vibe against Dead Rikimaru
- At page 16, thinks SV and PJ are scum, Pablito and MoS town
- One of Rafk/KaleiDoscope is scum for jumping on the pooky wagon quickly
- Fritz is suspicious (w/ reasons), Zindie is protown
- Fritz is protown for actually participating. Undecided about PJ, votes SV, RafK, and Kscope. Don't execute MoS, VR, or Smashy, execute SV
- Thinks Pablito has been consistent and protown
- Likes Shanba's posts
- Wants to hear from Yos
- Doesn't want Yos to ignore SV
- Outlines reasons for SV vote
- Tries to explain his predecessors actions
- Responds to SV's responses, still wants her execution
- Asks Yos what he thinks of the SV case
- Says the SV is scummy because of a pattern, not a single scummy thing
- Explains his change of stance against Dead Rikimaru, emphasizes that he is not wishy washy about MoS being town
- Continues previous post
- Addresses PJ's points against him, posts analysis of DR/Smashy.
- Doesn't think Yos's position against him is justified
- Explains above post
- Explains vote on Rafk
- Explains vote on Kscope
- Elaborates on above post
- More argument with Yos and Rafk
- Unvotes Kscope
- Asks SV to respond to PJ's analysis
- Doesn't want a mnowax lynch, still wants SV dead
- Agrees with RafK's argument against Yos about VR suspicion
- Response to Yos
- Votes SV, likes RafK's recent posting, FoSs Yos
- Asks how Zindie is reminded of VR's Space Monkey playstyle

Results: I get a fairly good vibe from VitaminR. He's consistent and reasonable in his posts, I wouldn't want him executed any time soon. I do have a few questions for him, though.

VR, could you update us as to how you feel about the following people right now:

Dead Rikimaru/Smashy/BM/mnowax
PJ
Pablito
MoS
Kscope
RafK
Fritzler

Oops.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 17, 2007 1:38 pm

Thesp wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:You are completely convinced I'm scum and I'm not, so I'm doing everything in my power to point out where you're wrong in your arguments so that you realize I'm not scum and can actually help us find the true scum.
Where are you looking for the real killers, OJ? On the golf course? I haven't seen a whole lotta scumhunting going on from you. I'm perfectly willing to consider other people as scum, please point me in the directions you think I should look, preferably with tangible votes. Instead, I'm wasting my time answering you.
That's
my problem, not that I think you're scum, but that I feel the need to waste my time answering you when I should be looking for your buddies.

Wait! You mean I haven't said who I thought should be executed today? :O Oh excuse me. I must be failing in my duty as a townsperson. Please hold while I go tell you who could be scum.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:NVM, Skruffs replaced after that happened. I forgive you.

I want to look more into mnowax2 (aka Battle Mage aka Smashy aka Dead Rikimaru) and Fritzler today. Since mnowax1 was protown, a lot of my suspicions connected to him are no longer valid. However, those two were near the top of my suspicions for other reasons, so I think they'd be a good execution today. I'll try to see who else looks scummy, although I probably won't have time until after Finals. We'll see.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:yea lowell's not a bad guy to look at today, either.

No, you're right Thesp. I haven't at all said who I thought was scum today. I must've been distracted with something today...You have my sincerest apologies.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 17, 2007 4:35 pm

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 18, 2007 11:01 am

ex-pablito...lol...can't you just call him Thesp?

Mastermind of Sin · Sun May 20, 2007 9:01 am

Zindie is neglecting this game

Mastermind of Sin · Tue May 22, 2007 9:09 am

Mod, please prod Cogito Ergo Sum, ThAdmiral, and mnowax

Our king made requests of them and they haven't posted since then.

Yosarian2, Lowell, RafK (I know he's away for 2 more days) need to also fulfill the King's requests, instead of ignoring them.

Also, did anyone notice this?

mnowax1's last post:

mnowax wrote:Am I walking to the gallows?

Great and I liked this game a lot. I am town though, and you will find that out when i am killed. I don't believe Yos is scum for this though. My suspicions are definitely on MoS and BattleMage. Sorry man you replaced the scummiest person so far in this game. Final words of a Dead Man are true. I hope that my life will be for the good of the Kingdom. Long Live the King!

mnowax2's first post:

mnowax wrote:
Vote MoS

I was quite suprized when i replaced battle mage what my role is now. I am still favoring a Master execution for the reasons that i have stated before. I am so far getting pro town vibes from Petrol-jelly

RafK wrote:How did we go from:

Yosarian's
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 511#544511
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 820#548820

in which mnowax wasn't on the shortlist or the final List of Execution, to mnowax not only joining the list but becoming Yos' main target?

My feeling on mnowax remains as it was: I don't have a strong read on him, either way, but the way this day has turned around and zero'd on him makes me feel that he's being set up as a "safe" kill... there's not going to be much information from mnowax because not many people (if any) have taken really strong stands about him, but at the same time he hasn't done anything especially townie that makes him look like an insupportable choice.

I am particularly amazed after all that has happened that Yosarian hasn't put his money where his mouth is and put Phoebus' replacement front and center for the lynch. Perhaps he's not interested in proving himself wrong?

I point this stuff out, of course, because I think we're watching a scum King at work and I would like to make sure his tactics are not missed.
I agree with Rafk here i believe that i was being set up for a kill here. I dont believe that Yos was in on it, but i do believe that a lot of the people who were Trying to take me down were scum. The following votes were placed on me:

Fritzler
Shamba
Thadmiral
Thesp
Toaster Strudel
and our King, Zinderas

More to come.

So, mnowax1 was wrong about mnowax2 being scum, but obviously mnowax1's second top suspicion is clearly spot-on, right? Riiiigggghhhttt...

Oh, and I'm still waiting for mnowax2 to give reasons why I am scum. mnowax1 didn't have any reasons against me, and I will not accept "I agree with Thesp" as an argument against me. Come up with your own reasoning.

Mastermind of Sin · Tue May 22, 2007 10:47 am

VitaminR's defense of Dead Rikimaru/replacements doesn't sit well with me, either. His argument is basically "Protown people do this, too, so you can't think he's scum for doing this." The problem is, there is always going to be at least one instance of where something scum would do has been done by a protown person. That doesn't change the fact that doing so is detrimental to the town and scummy in general. Nothing outside of cop investigations and the like is ever concrete in this game, so scummy actions is the best we have to go on. When a bunch of scummy actions are done by one person, we conclude that they could be scum. You can't say "oh, this person has done a crapload of scummy actions, but individually, each of these actions are something that a protown person might do, too, so this person clearly isn't scum." Making such an argument takes out every possible way to find scum outside of power roles, and that makes the game rather boring as well. Just because a protown person might do something doesn't mean that they are motivated to do so in the interests of the town. A protown person has no incentive to be lazy, inactive, or self-serving. It is not in the interest of the town for a protown person to do any of these things. Therefore, you can't just forgive someone for doing this just because a protown person might do it. If you do, you give scum places to hide and arguments to push suspicion off themselves. If all scum start being lazy, inactive, and self-serving, what's the tell them apart from the protown people that are being lazy, inactive, and self-serving? Giving them a free pass isn't going to help us at all.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed May 23, 2007 6:57 am

Thesp wrote:
Zindaras wrote:Zindie's long weekend off is being taken away by other occurences. I have been following the game (though I haven't taken the time yet to read the whole MoS-Thesp debate).

I'll execute someone when I feel the game isn't advancing anymore.
Get a LoE up. Now.

Agreed.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed May 23, 2007 12:56 pm

I'd like to hear VitaminR's response to the various responses to his defense of DR/mnowax2. I think Fritzler is the best choice for execution of the LoE players, although perhaps not the most informative lynch, since most people are refusing to comment on him, from what I can tell. VitaminR is probably the most informative lynch, but I think he's the least likely to be scum out of the three. Voidybuns is somewhere in between, a balance of informativity and scumminess.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 24, 2007 7:34 am

VitaminR, what do you think of this analysis of Dead Rikimaru? This was made before he disappeared as king, so it has nothing to do with the lurking, etc. that PJ was talking about.

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Dead Rikimaru:
Day 1 -
- Considers distancing tactic between pablito and Glork
- Claims that he didn't promote a pablito/Glork pairing, just that pablito is trying hard to be paired with pablito, can't think of a protown reason for it
Day 2 -
- votes pablito, no additional reasoning
- No post from Oct 27 until Dec 12, nothing of substance or length until Dec 18
- Doesn't find Yos scummy (good post)
- Claims to be unable to read Pooky, prefers him over Yos
- Amused that the LoE only contains those who have criticized Glork
Day 3 -
- Ask for top 3 suspects from each player
- Doesn't believe in randomly executing lurkers
- Calls for prods on lurkers
- Asks why Glork would bus a scumbuddy early in the game (My answer: Because he knows someone like you would ask yourself this question. Glork has admitted to being willing to bus any and all partners if he thinks it will get him a free pass through the game)
- States there are too many lurkers
- Asks me if my position on Phoebus is the same (I'll get to him eventually)

Result: I'm fairly unimpressed with Dead Rikimaru's play so far. I believe he has contradicted himself Day 1, been generally unhelpful and non-committal Day 2, and has barely offered any of his own insight into the game. His Day 3 actions have been far better than the first two days, but that is to be expected from the pressure of being King. Even so, asking for suspects and collecting reasoning is a good way to pick people to go after without having to dig up your own reasoning (he can use a conglomeration of other person's reasoning to get a protown player lynched), and being concerned with lurkers is something that scum often do to try and look helpful and protown. Everyone is concerned with lurkers, but scum tend to overdo it a bit. I could definitely see Dead Rikimaru as scum right now.

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 24, 2007 8:48 am

CES, what do you think of SV?

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 24, 2007 12:58 pm

Thesp wrote:
Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:You're supposed to think about your LoE, Zindaras. You're undermining your own authority here, dude.
QFT.

I'm sorely disappointed in the list of execution,
especially
when there are two players who have more formal suspicion expressed against them than two people on the list. I'm especially disappointed not to see MoS not on the list for consideration.

I would support a spectrumvoid lynch. I oppose a VitaminR lynch, and am ambivalent about Fritzler (I think there are a number of better targets out there).

Vote: Zindaras
.

Which four people would you be referring to, Thesp?

Mastermind of Sin · Thu May 24, 2007 4:33 pm

So you consider votes to be the only form of "formal suspicion"?

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 25, 2007 7:14 am

Zindie: 1 || Thesp: 0

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 25, 2007 9:27 pm

Cavane, the reason I didn't answer the first question is because I'm not sure what I think the answer is. I can't really defend myself any more than the answer I gave to that question and the comments I made that led to him asking the question, because if I say anything more, Thesp is just going to blame WIFOM on me, and you can't defend against that, so I'm not going to bother continuing that line of thought.

Mastermind of Sin · Fri May 25, 2007 10:48 pm

To be honest, SV is probably our best execution today. I agree that Fritzler is starting to look like yesterday's lynch, even though I think he could be scum. SV is another possible scum, and there's been enough debate on her that we'd gain a lot of info from her execution.

Mastermind of Sin · Sun May 27, 2007 11:57 am

The comments and actions regarding a possible Fritzler execution are seeming a lot like those regarding Mnowax's execution yesterday.

Mastermind of Sin · Sun May 27, 2007 11:58 am

Thesp wrote:
Zindaras wrote:Vote: Fritzler, VitaminR

*gasp*

Now it's 4/3-3/2. I honestly don't see how 4 out of 16 means it's the "will of the people", or any more than Fritzler and Vitty are.
This helps. Thanks!

Why are you still side-stepping Mastermind of Sin? Why isn't he on there?

Also, lynching someone because it will give us information is a terrible reason to lynch someone.

Thank you for completely ignoring the fact that I think SV is scummy and sidestepping that issue to try and twist my words into something bad.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 28, 2007 9:37 am

Thesp, it's not a bad reason

unless

you don't think the person is scum. Taking two relatively scummy people and lynching one because they give you more information to act on the next day is a

good

thing, not a terrible thing.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 28, 2007 10:23 pm

I don't think Zindaras is assuming everyone is town. It is not required that you assume someone is town if you don't assume them to be scum. This is not black and white.

Mastermind of Sin · Mon May 28, 2007 10:41 pm

Now I know why DGB irritates me so much...

Mastermind of Sin · Tue May 29, 2007 6:49 am

Zindaras wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Now I know why DGB irritates me so much...
Hmm?

Zindaras wrote:I think you've missed my point a bit. I was mostly saying that I don't think we should just ignore her and act like she's scum when she's not found to be scum already. We should at the very least just let her talk. Just going and saying she's scum and not letting her talk won't work.

Also, I don't assume everyone's town either. I just don't assume anything. Assuming anything automatically makes one's perceptions clouded.

When you think someone is scum, you can say that others are scummy by association with that first one. However, asides from stating them for future use, if you die, such feelings are useless, as they are not actually solid logic until the first player dies and is found to be scum.

She takes your above statement to the extreme. She assumes someone is scum, then assumes that other people are scum by association, then further assumes that more people are scum by association with the associated scum. It's a really irritating strategy that doesn't help at all, because we still don't know if the first person was scum.

Mastermind of Sin · Wed May 30, 2007 1:32 pm

Yos, what do you think of Cavane?

Mastermind of Sin · Wed May 30, 2007 5:31 pm

Thesp wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Thesp, it's not a bad reason unless you don't think the person is scum.
This is wrong. This is a rationalizing justification for lynching someone despite not thinking they are the ideal lynch. If you think they're the ideal lynch, you wouldn't need this argument.

This post has no relevance to proving that it's a bad reason.