Mafia in La-La Land (Game over!)

[Shamrock]

What's up!

VOTE: Bitmap

[Shamrock]

PM those questions weren't random so we didn't ever enter rqs (and have been out of the rv stage for a while).

Vote: Reck

, mostly since first reaction being complaining about page length isn't something I consider a good reaction (personally while more reading the 5 pages are more of a good thing since it helps decide on people more).

Is this scummy?

@inox - have no fear, the walls will come later!

[Shamrock]

Is it? (as in can't you decide)

Well, presumably I was asking you because I wanted to hear your answer. That is how questions work, you know.

So, is it scummy?

[Shamrock]

I was assuming you were asking it in general (since asking someone are they scum isn't the best question). Anyways yes it's somewhat scummy for targeting reck instead of some of the more talkative people that are easier to determine a read but I wanted the people who've posted little so far to talk more.

Ahh, I seem to have phrased my question poorly. What I meant was: was Reckoner's post scummy?

[Shamrock]

So you think expressing dismay about the size of the game is something scum are more likely to do than town? Why? And why would voting him provoke him to talk more/sooner when the game has just started?

[Shamrock]

This seems like extremely spurious reasoning. You think that a player is more likely to be scum because they don't feel like reading 5 pages of RVS at 3 AM? Really?

I suspect you realize this and are too scared of backtracking to admit that it was a shitty vote.

[Shamrock]

"A small bit for the reason stated before, but mostly I want him to talk more."

Nothing new to add there. Yes I think it's more likely a scum then town. The main reason remains to see him talk more.

And do you think that a single vote from you, which you have already admitted is for pressure purposes, is likely to make him talk more/sooner? (Or, to ask the same thing in another way: why should he feel pressured by your vote, especially given the short length of time this game has been running?)

[Shamrock]

Oh right.
He's obvscum. Thanks for the heads up!

Care to explain why? I was originally suspicious of him for his reckoner vote but his responses felt pretty town to me.

[Shamrock]

That's nice.

UNVOTE: Bitmap
VOTE: Konowa

[Shamrock]

Blastoide should also explain why he voted Bitmap over Shamrock, when it reads as if he has a stronger read on Shamrock.

Actually this is a good point.

As of now I want to vote you but you've got so many votes on you that I don't consider it necessary.

3 votes is "so many"? What's wrong with wagons?

[Shamrock]

I am voting for Bitmap over Shamrock because I can see how Shramrock questioned Mehdii in two ways. The way I explained earlier, and also in a pro-town way. He could've done it to make sure that Mehdii wasn't just resting his vote there. Bitmap on the other hand only posted fluff and sheeped a vote. None of that can be seened in a pro-town way this far. Thus I have a null on Shamrock and Bitmap is leaning scum. That is why my vote is on Bitmap.

Ehmmmmm this isn't what you said at all, in your previous post you called me null leaning scum.

If this was your reasoning for voting Bitmap over me then why did you call me null leaning scum in your previous post?

[Shamrock]

That's not what I asked. I mean, okay, so that's why you're keeping your vote on Bitmap

now

. But when you voted him in post 163, that's not the reasoning you gave then - in that post, you saw only the scummy possibility behind my questioning of Medhii. What I'm asking you is: why did you vote Bitmap in post 163?

There is an inconsistency to the thread of your logic here that I find scummy.

[Shamrock]

Konowa, why did it take you so long to tell us why Mehdi's scum?

This.

I also am waiting on Blastoide to address the disconnect I pointed out.

I'm pretty sure he just did.

[Shamrock]

I don't see any reason not to claim dreams. Only one person dreams per night so it's not like we'd be outing that many people. If the information turns out to be totally worthless then we can reconsider but if most dreams are on par with the one listed in the setup then it seems worth it.

[Shamrock]

Eh

UNVOTE: Agar
VOTE: Staeg

Shamrock:

What do you think of Blastoide, and how has your recent exchange with him altered your opinion (if at all)?

Forgot to respond to this. I don't care much about the fact that he voted Bitmap over me, but I reeeeally don't like the way he at first tried to pass off the "well there are two ways of reading Shamrock's push" thing as his reasoning in the original post when it clearly wasn't - it makes it look like scum trying to fake a thread of logic rather than a townie actually following one. However, he may have just been confused, and the pressure vote on Bitmap is a reasonable answer. I want to keep my eye on him.

[Shamrock]

Simply put re-assessment. I have already explained why I thought Mehdiscum. However, since no one agrees with that, I am obviously doing something wrong.

What, exactly, changed your read on Mehdi? Just the fact that nobody seems to agree with you?

[Shamrock]

Konowa can you be more specific about why you changed your read on Mehdi?

[Shamrock]

@Reck- Have no fear, I don't think you're town.

Luckily, your buddy defended you while you were gone.

Vote: Shamrock

I assume this is a reference to me questioning Mehdi? His vote on Reck set off my false-participation sensors. I'm not sure how you would interpret that as me defending Reck. I don't even have a read on Reck.

At this point I'm increasingly unconvinced that Konowa is scum despite the stupidity of his opening posts.

I actually agree that PMysterious's #264 is scummy, but from what others were saying it sounds like this isn't really that out of the ordinary for him? Can someone who has played with him before give an opinion on that?

There's something in Matt's posts that Just Feels Wrong to me but I can't point to what it is. However, I'm open to arguments on Inox, though I haven't really seen much from him pushing me in either direction. (@Seastorm/Inox - roughly how many games have the two of you played together?)

UNVOTE: Konowa

[Shamrock]

oh I forgot to VOTE: PMysterious

[Shamrock]

Please explain how this is scummy. I'll be glad to defend myself if you do.

fence sitting and trying to be cute about it

who do you think is scum

[Shamrock]

What was bad about his ignoring peta's scumread, all peta said was "that's scummy", there wasn't really anything for him to respond to.

[Shamrock]

What, in your opinion, would a non-scummy response to peta's #372 be?

[Shamrock]

You would be right, Matt, except that peta wasn't actually making any arguments. All he said was:

that was a p. scummy post by manho i don't really like it

To my eyes, there is no argument in that post that necessitates a response. I will repeat my question, since you chose to ignore it: what would a non-scummy response to the above post be?

[Shamrock]

Oh, I misunderstood your post. Ok.

[Shamrock]

Do you understand what a rhetorical question is?

[Shamrock]

I never heard the term fence sitting before. I'll bring up scum reads tonight or tomorrow. Don't worry, I usually never lie.

what happened to thsi

[Shamrock]

UNVOTE: PMysterious
VOTE: Bitmap

Bitmap say something useful.

[Shamrock]

konowa wagon?

Meh, I don't really like it, I don't get a scum feeling from him.

However, I'm also feeling significantly less comfortable with the PM wagon now after seeing the other people who joined me on it.

@Bitmap: You and me both, lol. But why are you voting Matt in this game - just out of spite?

[Shamrock]

Is that inconsistent with his town play? I was under the impression that you had played with him multiple times before.

[Shamrock]

Actually I like this wagon, Imma sheep it.

UNVOTE: BitmapUNVOTE:
VOTE: KoC

[Shamrock]

mehhh

UNVOTE: Bitmap
VOTE: KoC

[Shamrock]

Wow.

VOTE: PMysterious

[Shamrock]

Please show me where I voted PM because of a "scumslip" (hint: you can't because I didn't)

[Shamrock]

a large helping of the reasons I was voting him to begin with:

I actually agree that PMysterious's #264 is scummy

fence sitting and trying to be cute about it

plus a healthy dash of:

It's that either he's scum or he's town and he'll get to lylo


And I don't want him anywhere near my lylo

[Shamrock]

Btw I do not like AT ALL the way Blastoide has been falling under the radar after his scummy behavior earlier. This is everything he has posted since Aug 23:

Sexy prod-dodge. I'll get to this soon once I am done visiting family.

I think that this is a perfect chance to see what we can get out of Kondi's replacement.
VOTE: Kondi
As for the Manho wagon. I don't think that Matt is a strong enough town read for me to blindly follow him just yet.

My computer has been shutting down a lot lately. I will comment as soon as I can once my mom comes's back with the laptop which should be tomorrow morning. I'll try to comment from my phone, but don't count on it.

[Shamrock]

I don't know about Shamrock. I've found Shamrock's posting slightly town, but I think the 'wow' thing is scummy because how he justifies his vote later (and implies that he didn't think what happened recently was important) contradicts with him saying 'wow'.

Meh, I didn't phrase that post very well. The "wow" was indeed a reaction to PM's recent posts, particularly the one Matt "daykilled" him for; I selfquoted to point out to reck that I'd already been voting/suspecting PM earlier, since he (reck) doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game.

[Shamrock]

except there was no fencesitting in that post. he was asking for an explanation.

Huh?

[Shamrock]

The quoted phrase there was the question he was asking me, not the post I was calling fencesitting. The post that I think is fencesitting is this one:

All of your statements are wrong.

1)Yes it is accusatory. That is the point.
2)Was asking Reck to clarify his statement since what I said was two parts.
3)It is not negligable. I view Reck's entrance post as null, so for someone else to see it as scummy and combining the fact that said person has not said anything worthwhile so far it is relevant.
4)Yes I am asking for scum reads from Mehdi because he hasn't said anything yet. Why would this be an afterthought?

Nope, I'm right

I don't care who's right. As long as we lynch Scum, I'm happy.

If you think THAT post is not fencesitting, then, well, I disagree.

[Shamrock]

PV: the way he kept changing his reasons for voting Bitmap instead of me when asked about it. It felt like there wasn't a coherent train of thought behind his vote. Read #163 and then #199-205. On its own, it's nothing enormous (and is less significant at page 29 than it was at page 9), but the fact that he reverted to lurking after being questioned is suggestive to me of a scum getting intimidated after being called out on doing something stupid.

Really wondering why PM is capable of responding to comments about his avatar but not to peta's question...