D.N. Does Star Wars (Town Victory)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Where were we?

Oh yes,

VOTE: WrathChild

I'll have to review who else is scummy besides WC, Slaandar and Kdub.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You seem to have forgotten your 'post restriction' also ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – Have any of the non-struck through replacement players NOT PMed you that they are still involved?

--

Iecerint fixed his errors.

So despite the fact that your role PM was NOT deleted by the crash and you had multiple problems with your claimed post restriction before the fact that you actually had one escaped you at the start of the day?

At what point do you get penalized in a way that we can actually see with your continued ‘errors’?

--

Just to have some counterballance to that Fennin bogus.

Then vote WrathChild and get a wagon started. I know he’s active on site. He needs some love in the form of votes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Then at least give me something to sheep on. I don't know what the wrath vote/waggon is supposed to be about and I haven't got the time to reread right now

It is 100% from the prior thread. I'll dig up the specifics either today or tomorrow for you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The above post would have been better served in personal notes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So you think I'm scum b/c I couldn't really remember anything from the old game? Is there a reason you keep chainsawing?

Here's a question for you Nero -

You are accusing Shadow for chainsaw defending both Iecerint and Fennin. Which would require all three to be scum. Doesn't make much sense in my book given you were random voting which also makes no sense.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA til Monday morning after this post for my usual weekend family duties.

--

I’m doing a re-read of the archive soon but Shadow’s recent posting reminds me 100% of why he’s Town.

--

This.

Oh, so you eagerly await Wrath’s analysis of the posts while you have given us a Vote and this? Why exactly aren’t you providing analysis and scum-hunting?

--

He put a vote on Slandaar that was based on questionable reasoning

No, it isn’t questionable at all.

Slaandar’s reason for voting Malee was terribly scummy. He voted her simply because she provided content. Not for the content itself – simply because she provided content.

Speaking of Slaandar – why exactly is he posting all over site but not doing anything here?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Iecerint’s fence-sitting on Slaandar at Post 57 is noted.

Ooba lurking does not give me happy thoughts. Low content ooba is generally scum ooba. I need to review his activity in the archive …

--

Doesn't require them to all be scum, just SD. A chainsaw is player C attacks player B for attacking player A.

I know what a chainsaw is. You need to explain how Shadow pointing out terrible logic / attacks makes him scummy and not scum-hunting – ie you need to explain why is attacks are scummy.

--

cos I didnt know this game had started again?

link to archive and also magna can explain why hes accusing me of avoiding a thread I had no way of knowing existed would be great.

Oh really? You didn’t know the game had started? Yet in the next post after I call you out for avoiding the thread (12 hours later) you suddenly have found the thread? It's just luck that you happened to 'find' the thread right after I called out you for avoiding it. Lulz, no.

Since you’ve made it an issue I’m about to turn this explanation into charcoal –

March 8th – DN posts his Reboot sign-up thread..

On March 9th you posted in that thread saying you were “confirmed to go again!”. So clearly as of March 9th you knew that the game was restarting. Did you just 'forget' to keep reading this reboot thread where he directly posted that the game was up? Strike 1.

Deathnote opens the game thread again on March 14th at 7:05pm EDT. You don’t post here until Sunday the 18th at 11:50am EDT after I call you out.

What is your on-site activity between those points? 8 posts on site including a post in an ended game here in Theme Park. Are you saying you are so incompetent you couldn’t see that this game restarted despite you posting in the Reboot thread and posting in Theme Park WHILE THE GAME WAS GOING? Strike 2 and 3. You are out scum.

Yeah, your explanation doesn’t hold water. The scum-tell of ‘showing up only when called out while being active elsewhere on site’ applies right here.

UNVOTE: WrathChild
VOTE: Slaandar

Malee is scum probably too... her replacing out is a scumtell from her. She made all that effort in those posts and then gives up? really? no. Thats not town.

So giving effort is a scum-tell and replacing out is a scum-tell? Yeah, you need rope.

also anyone accusing me in any suspicous light of avoiding a thread is prob scum

I had highest post count in thread before crash taken into consideration why would I avoid the thread purposefully? answer I wouldnt whatever alignment based on my previous post count

Oh look how cute … flailing scum!

Why are you avoiding the thread so far? Perhaps because, pre-crash, Town MoI, Shadow and Andrius all found you totes scummy and were moving to have you hung / blasterized?

And the “I have a high post count I can’t be scum” is so funny …

Why would I lie?

Because you are scum, right? Do I win a prize for being correct?

--

But that's not why Fennin voted Slandaar. He admits that Malee just provided a summary and not analysis, but his claimed reason for voting Slandaar was that he somehow inferred that Slandaar was afraid Malee's play would develop into something useful. If he suspected Slandaar for the reason you claim, why didn't he just say that?

Sorry, not buying it. Malee’s posts did have analysis and clearly Fennin had to have voiced that reason at some point for you to give it as here. Seems to me the crux of your vote on Fennin is that he ignored your questions which is personally motivated IMO.

What are your thoughts on Slaandar Kdub?

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna Explain why I as scum would not post WHILE KNOWING THE THREAD EXISTS untill you call me out? and then I think OMG BETTER POST!!! seems pretty terrible play as scum dont you think? What benefits do I get as scum for doing such a play? why did I suddenly decide to megalurk when previously I posted so much? I could have lurked before the crash but it coincided with it. And oh look im back posting after I find thread??? strange.

I don't know why you didn't post here while posting all over site ... again perhaps the fact you were getting some significant scrutiny before the game crashed. You tell me - why were you avoiding the thread? I see in this post you don't address the timeline work or dispute it in any way.

What were going to do after I called you out? Not post at all? That's not viable given your activity on site. So you put yourself in a bad position by dodging the thread and are now scrambling. It's not like you would have been in a better position by continuing to avoid posting here.

Your reaction (OMGUSing everyone who points out that your activity is scummy and popping up the second you were called out) certainly doesn't come from a Townie perspective.

What does Town gain from not actively posting in thread while posting all over site and having acknowledged the existence of the Reboot thread? Why don't you explain that for us?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I didnt say that either actually...

If you can go and find where I said that please or are you lying?

Oh so Post 76 was pointless fluff and not an assertion that wall-posting on WrathChild's part did not mean he was Town?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have told you. I did not know the thread existed.Now you admit there is no scum motivation/benefit to it... You dont know. So why are you voting me?What does your timeline prove? that I didnt post here because I didnt know the thread existed?One thing to note this 'ended game in themepark' was subscribed to as it had been going for 4 months or so... go check. Meaning I never saw the list of games.I received no PMI did not know thread was here untill I checked on Sunday and oh I found it and ... posted.

Did you or did you not post in the Queue Reboot thread?
Did you stop looking at that thread the second you posted in it?
Are you suggesting you never ONCE looked at any other threads other than the ones you had been posting in every time you came to MS between Wednesday and Sunday?

Since I've now told you twice a viable reason why you as scum would lurk why do you keep repeating that there is no scum motivation? That's a clear lie.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes to all

So you realistically expect people to believe that you saw the Reboot Sign-up thread, posted that you were back in again in said thread, never once checked the thread again for status updates and despite posting on site never once looked at the Large Theme list of games to see if this game was restarted?

Why didn’t you bookmark / subscribe to the sign-up thread like you did with War in Heaven?

Why didn’t you check back once in 9 days to see the status of the game in the Reboot thread?

Seriously your behavior makes absolutely no sense. At all. The more realistic scenario is that you were dodging the thread. I know for a fact you consider that a scum-tell.

What is this viable reason Magna? You seem to think I as scum would not be able to see how bad I would look if I was caught not posting here but posting elsewhere purposefully.

Again since you are incapable of reading –

You had picked up significant pressure pre-crash for your scummy play. Andrius, Shadow and myself all were pushing you. Thus laying low would allow your scum-buddies to get the Fennin alternate wagon going strong again.

Hey look ... a Fennin wagon immediately exploded as the thread opened. Imagine that.

You seem to be presenting the situation in a way to suggest that scum (aka yourself) always play completely optimally. This is not the case as slips and scummy play are how scum get caught and lynched. DERP.

How about this if you still insist I am scum we go 1v1 today if im lynched you are turbo lynched next? and vice versa if you flip town first.

Hoping I will back down from pressuring you if you wave the ‘1v1’ flag around? Nope, not happening.

If you really thought I was scum and wanted a 1 v 1 you would have actually voted for me there. You didn’t. So you are more interested in posturing than thinking I am scum.

Die scum die!

Either 1. You think im the worst mafia player ever

or

2. You are scum.

or I guess

3. You are in fact the worst scumhunter ever.

Well I know 2 and 3 are clearly incorrect so if you are setting these up as the only options it would have to be 1.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My point was to say that Shadow's point was a sound point (i.e. responding to hypothesizedTown-Slandaar's perceived misread). I think and have always thought Slandaar is town, annoyance at recent behavior notwithstanding.

Oh look yet another example of a blown post restriction ....

Ok, so you think Slaandar is Town. Is he VI-Town then? Because his tendancy to call everyone who suspects him confirmed scum immediately is a sign he's a pretty bad player then.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Iecerint has built many relational tells around the premise that Slandaar is scum. Iecerint is very reluctant to let go of this premise because it will make Iecerint read the game over again.

Um is this right? You've just come off saying you don't have a scum read on Slandaar and now you have build many relational tells based on him being scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Iecerint errs when Iecerint becomes emotional. <_<

That reminds me ... why are you so 'emotional' over my observation that you were fence-sitting on Slandaar?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well thats the truth.

Well, it’s at least what you are presenting as the truth.

So who is scum who is voting Fennin then? and I assume you think Fennin is town. Why is that?

Once you flip scum I can go back and review the timing and speed. On gut I had a scum read on Kdub from the original thread.

As to Fennin – he’s null. His posting was whelming in the first thread but hardly obv-scum. On the other hand plenty of my scum reads (such as yourself) are voting him which makes me think he probably is Town.

No I am saying I as scum wouldnt play full on retarded which is what you are suggesting.

And yet you think everyone you call scum is doing the same. So, no, I’ll take your self-meta and throw it out the window thanks.

Do you agree? you vote yourself if I am town?

Why aren’t you voting yourself or me? I find it hard to take this for anything other than scummy grandstanding given I am the only one of us actually voting each other. You aren’t even agreeing that it’s a 1 v 1 but keep asking me about it. Funny, huh?

I think you missed the point. I view you as viewing me as 1 which makes me believe you are 2 or 3 because a townie assuming someone is 1 is 3 or 1 themselves... However you seem intelligent so you are in fact 2. Scum.

Yup, that’s complete crap. I view you as scummy and am voting you. Your over-simplified and stance on the situation really isn’t relevant to me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nope. Once you actually make a commitment yourself then we can talk.

Until then keep up with your empty posturing about 1 v 1.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You seem so certain im scum but at the last minute you back off?

How strange.

Lulz. I've backed off? I'm still voting for you. How have I backed off?

I'm ignoring the smoke-screen that you are attempting to raise with your empty 1 v 1. You know ... the one you keep talking about while not voting me. It's empty posturing by which you are artificially trying to present a Town persona.

If you really thought it was a 1v1 situation you would have actually voted me. You haven't. You are blowing smoke hoping to distract people.

Why aren't you voting me again if you really want a 1v1?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I cant be bothered to read ALL of these WoTs on my phone atm but I'm getting a town read on slandaar and magna looks like a townie trying too hard.

Did you just call the Slandaar versus Me series of posts Town versus Town without having actually read the posts?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I dont care about 1v1, SD is better vote than you...I just wanted to see if you really believe I am scum but you failed.

You pretty much are solidifying my opinion that you are indeed 1 on that list of yours.

I don't think you are scum? I'm voting you and holding your feet to the fire.

But Shadow is a better vote than me when you think I'm scum? One of us is afraid to support their position that the other is scum. It's not me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Kdub

- In reading throught he archives here is what Fennin said about Malee with his Slan vote -

I suggest we lynch Slandaar today.

Vote: Slandaar

Accused Malee of being prob scum. Me thinks he is afraid that Malee will last long enough to put on interesting reads and analyses. You trying to discredit her = scummy. Although what she posted = more of a summary than real reads, she did something. What did you do?

I disagree wholeheartedly with your suggestion that Fennin voted Slan for anything other than Slan's bad vote on Malee for giving content. And also your stance that he admitted it wasn't content isn't valid - he says it was 'MORE' a summary. The important word is more.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh and another little tidbit from the archive

This guy is scum

Its obvious.

He tried to lurk out of the early suspicion he garnered.

What do we see here? Direct acknowledgement from Slandaar that scum will attempt to lurk out pressure early on in the game (in the quote above he is referring to Fennin).

Yet when I call him out for doing the exact same thing he goes off on a rant about how that's the stupidest play ever for scum. See the Cognitive Dissoance? Can't be a valid tell to use against someone (Fennin) that suddenly isn't a valid tell when applied to himself.

Confirm Vote - Slandaar

[MagnaofIllusion]

What the heck is wrong with you people?

Why are we pushing this 'Lurking' thing on Slandaar?

It's as easy as checking the pm you got that said that D1 was starting.

See anything missing or not?

Some of us did not get start of day Pms from Deathnote ...

The question remains - do you find his explanation that he posted in the Reboot Queue thread that he as back in and continued to post on site but failed to either check back in on the status of the game in the Reboot thread or look in the Large Theme area believable?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@ANDY

– GOD DAMN IT STOP PLAYING FUCKING LOL AND POST UP IN THIS BITCH. I’M TIRED OF SLAPPING AROUND THE SCUM AND MORONS WITH ONLY SHADOW AS TOWN TO HELP ME!!!

--

dear god
the cache is sucking my will to live

Either post content or eat Blasterfire Sleepy. My tolerance for 'Lulz, I'ma play like this cause I can" is at an all-time low.

--

Magna is either scum pushing too hard or a very deluded townie.

Oh, so you know for certain that Slandaar is just a horrible player as opposed to scum? Hmmm … what alignment player would be in a position to know that for certain?

--

I dont care about 1v1, SD is better vote than you...

So your 1v1 talk was all fluff after all. Not surprising.

You make it sound like I have not clearly stated I think SD is scum also

What is the issue with me voting SD a scum read and not you Magna? what is my scum motivation behind it?

Oh I’ve been waiting for this from you –

Prove I said that you didn’t think SD was scum and that I ever said I had a problem with you voting?

If you can’t prove it with quotes you are obviously scum lying and making crap up.

Seriously – prove it with direct quotes!

Of course you know very well that I have been demonstrating that all your 1v1 talk is just fluff that you hoped would distract people.

On another front – no response at all to the obvious Cognitive Dissonance you were showing in Post 116. Or just going to duck that like too?

--

It's all WIFOM to me- or perhaps a better word/phrase would be 'irrelevant'.

Maybe when he first posted in this thread, is when he first checked up on the status of the game?

How am I to know this happened, or whether he in fact just lurked until he posted?

I'm not, and therefore it won't have any bearing on whether I think he is scum or not.

I'm kind of surprised that it seems that way for others though. It's baffling.

Oh, so someone not posting under pressure is irrelevant to their possible alignment?

What do you then think of Slandaar’s accusations against Fennin that I recovered from the archive at Post 116? Why didn’t you speak out about the irrelevancy of that accusation when it occurred?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have already said I wanted to see YOUR belief in YOUR read, you fell short.

And I’ve said you are scum fluffing a 1 v 1 who isn’t willing to commit to your fake-read on me as scum. So you fell short, as usual.

There was a purpose to it.

Yup. You were scum trying desperately to do anything to get the attention off yourself with fake fluff!

The reason your accusations so ridiculous is because you think I think I would lurk untill I am called out then instantly reappear (which makes it look like I lurked - why would I do that as scum?). When there is no reason to believe that over any other version of events one of which is the truth (I didnt know thread existed)

It burns when you get caught and can only keep repeating “I’m an incompetent moron who could not click the Theme Park link and see the thread or click the Reboot Queue thread I posted in for a status update. Yup, I can’t do something MoI’s 7 year old daughter can pull off” as your only defense, huh?

I said 'it sounds like' prove where I said you said this

If you can’t prove it with quotes you are obviously scum lying and making crap up.

Seriously – prove it with direct quotes!

So you admit you can’t back up your statement and admit to being a lying scum-bag with this dodge response when you accuse others of being scum for doing the same (as you did with Shadow in the first thread)? Cognitive Dissoance away!!!!

MORE SLANDAAR VOTES PLEASE – HE’S JUST DIRECTLY CLAIMED SCUM.

I was under some pressure previous to crash and was posting the most in the game which completely contradicts the idea I as scum lurk out of suspicion. Now, taken into consideration why is my version of events (the truth) so unbelievable? why are you basically saying I am lying with no proof?

No, it doesn’t contradict it at all. The break and resurrection in the thread allowed you an opportunity to do so. Your alternate suggestion is that you are completely incompetent and were unable to click on threads other than bookmarks / subscriptions for multiple days. You are the one who keeps making the argument that you aren’t an idiot but your explanation at how you possibly missed the thread revolves solely on you being one. See I’m giving you credit for being scum actively trying out a tactic as opposed to a derp. Maybe that's a mistake on my part.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Wrath

– what happened to that analysis you were going to do?

Elmo needs to post in thread or get prodded ASAP since he is likewise posting all over the site while not posting here.

--

Slandaar vs SD reminds me of this exchange:

So ooba – are you saying you have never seen scum dodge posting in a thread under pressure? I just want to be clear because you are bending over backwards to make an excuse for every stance and action Slandaar takes.

Also – why is it SD versus Slandaar on this issue when I was the player who originated the observation?

Also – why is Nero’s re-RVS vote scummy but Peregrine’s not?

- I also think you're wrong about Slaandar. I'd like to point out the logical vs emotional theory I had earlier. Can see parallels with respect to Chess and Gandalf in BoM. (I'm not sure if I responded to SD's statement about chess being a "troll" that game; I thought he wasn't trolling and was trying hard to scumhunt until called out)

And I’ve said my piece on this – you can’t have it both ways. You can’t dismiss my issues with Slandaar as playstyle differences and thus not valid while you simultatneosly had suspicion on Malee who was a logical style player and not consider your problem with her to be a similar playstyle difference. If you can read Emotional players better than Logical players can it stands to reason that Logical players can read other logical players better than you can, does it not?

--

You are being so ridiculous... you are tunneling so hard... You are not reading things correctly.

I have started to think you are town.

Wait, whut?

I was obv-scum who couldn’t possibly be a Townie because I voted obv-Town you and kept calling your Malee vote absurd.

Now because I’m on to you and not letting up you think I’m possibly Town? Backing away from the scum read on me in hopes that I will lower my scum read on you?

Here is what you said in Post 113 –

You make it sound like I have not clearly stated I think SD is scum also

What is the issue with me voting SD a scum read and not you Magna? what is my scum motivation behind it?

You are claiming that I suggested you didn’t make your scum-read on Shadow clear. You have no backed up where I suggested this.

I’ve also clearly discussed my problem with your vote for Shadow and not me – you proffered an empty 1v1 when you refused to vote me even when I am voting you. So clearly my problem with your Shadow vote (other than it is on a Town player) is that you are using it as a crutch to defend your faked 1v1 call where you refuse to vote me. Now you are claiming I failed some ‘Grand Tarp’ reaction test when you’ve yet to explain my scum motivation for any of the above.

This game is a two-way street for Town players. You don’t get the luxury of asking for motivations from everyone else but never providing them yourself. In fact your insistence on doing so combined with your inability to provide support for your attacks while banging others for not doing the same (which I can reference in the initial thread if you want) screams Cognitive Dissonance which is a reliable scum-tell.

Now in Post 138 you are using weasel-wording (“I said it ‘sounds like’”) in an attempt to back away from my accusations.

I like a WC vote btw

He was clearly just parroting what Magna said earlier.

So aside from the fact that you once again are just throwing out accusations with no support –

You are making a parroting accusation. Is Wrath scum parroting the person you are also calling scum and thus directly parroting his partner?

Do you think my votes and accusations against Wrath (in both the first and second thread) are bussing then?

Buddying to ooba in this noted also.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm gonna go ahead and "Chainsaw" here (I think that's what it's called) and VOTE: MaguaofIllusion.

I will put up a quote wall for my reasonings tonight when I get to a PC. It revolves around his attacking of Slandaar though. It's just too all over the place and half the things he is accusing him of hold no base and are just illogical.

I believe he is a scum who is pushing way too hard. There is another possibilty though which I think is far more likely as I have done it before....

And that is that they are

both

scum. The reasoning for this is that Magua seems so set on Slandaar being scum to the point where he is pulling things out of thin air and making mountains out of molehills to incriminate him. It's almost as if he

knows

he is scum and that after Slandaar is lynched and flips scum, he will have gained immense town credit and will, in theory, be safe.

Nice juicy post right here -

1. Actively chooses to 'joke' about being scum (via the Chainsawing reference).
2. I can't wait to see your wall. I look forward to you supporting your accusations.
3. I'm scum bussing my partner Slandaar because you like to bus as scum?
4. I'm chuckling since you can't even get my user-name correct ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

1. What do you mean? The "Chainsawing" term this site holds means the act of accusing someone for attacking another player right?

On MS Chainsawing is when one scum attacks another player who is attacking their partner. In this case - I'm attacking Slandaar and you are now attacking me. You get the added scummy bonus of establishing in your post that we are both scum that way regardless of what either of us eventually flips you have the added bonus of being able to attack the other.

I'm smelling the ozone of PEW PEW PEW here ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - Can we please have a Vote-Count?

[MagnaofIllusion]

The Wiki has all the answers you seek!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, upon review of meta I don't see moving my Slandaar vote anytime soon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Explain this meta read Magna

Nope. I'm going to play just like you and not give answers while demanding them from others.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can you just offer some bullet points as to why you believe Slandaar is scum Magna? And vice versa. (If you believe he is scum slandaar.).

So let me get this straight. I'm scum who is pushing my scum partner and now you are asking us to both bullet-point the case on the other? Just want to be clear.

Reading isn't a hardship Princess.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Andy

- Don't worry ... I'm not buying anything Foxace is selling at this juncture ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Given Post 165 is completely unreadable without serious Mod intervention I'm not sure I want to see more like that from you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Or if you are in the same thread use [p@st=185][/post] with the @ replaced with an o.

Example - Post 185

[MagnaofIllusion]

ooba has also disappeared from the site twice in the past year. I'm not really surprised at his low activity.

I know this to be true but when he does he disappears completely. Scum ooba does tend to post in a very different way than Town ooba. Look at Back to the Future Mafia (if it still exists) or Atomic Mafia as examples.

Now that he’s here and posting I think I’ll be able to get a good read on him.

So I'm limiting my exposure to LoL, Magna. As I said inthread I was V/LA through the weekend so Monday was the first day I really had to read. I TRY MY MASTER.

I keep on top of you because I care Andy. I had no reason to keep you motivated in AFFC because it suited my purposes to have disintested Andy around for possible mislynch. Here I don’t want you sliding into disintrest. Town needs all the voices it can get active given we have so many missing players currently.

--

I appreciate that Kdub continues to soft-sell his interest on Wrathchild in Post 174.

--

- I dispute this statement: "He's not posting here while posting everywhere else on site = scum". If I want to avoid posting in a particular game as scum, I tend to avoid posting on the site altogether (barring circumstances where I'm modding). Selectively ignoring one game is a surefire way of drawing attention to yourself - which is exactly what you don't want to be doing as scum.

Yes, I agree that doing it in the manner described is not a smart move. The kicker for me (and why I’m not letting Slandaar go yet) is two-fold

1. The timing of his return is just after I called out his absence. Possibly coincidence, but then …
2. He actively posted in the Reboot Queue thread once and NEVER checked back in to look at the status. I can’t reconcile that behavior with anything other than sheer incompetence and I’m trying hard to not assume people are morons.

Yes, at the end of the Day it’s not the flaming dagger of scum-tell on it’s own. But I had a scum-read on Slandaar before “Post-gate”.

I didn't say the RVS-vote was scummy. The contradictory part was calling it a RV but then accusing SD of chainsawing -implying he thought Iece was scum when he made that vote.

That makes sense then, thanks.

So, yeah, that's my way of admitting my initial vote may have been due to a difference in playstyle and probably wrong.

Ok, that makes sense.

Your turn to unvote Slan and join me on the WC wagon; Slan is not a good lynch; Forget "Back to the Future Mafia" and think more "Battle For Olympus" - should make it easier.

But Back to the Future was so much more recent …

I’m not removing my scum read on Slandaar but I will work with you on Wrath since I have a scum read on him also.

UNVOTE: Slandaar
VOTE: WrathChild

--

Magna

I am town

Who is scum?

I’ll tell you who else are my scum reads --

WrathChild – I will codify my prior thread suspicion into a case.

Kdub – Blaster direction stance + lack of understanding of the process (Kdub is not a dummy and clearly is familiar with nuanced and complex mechanics), stance on Fennin, and distancing links to WrathChild.

Those are my strongerst reads outside yourself. There are undoubtedly scum in the lurkers / non-returing slots just based on the massive amount we have.

But here's a question to you - why do you suspect Wrath?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Might go into detail later dont feel like it right now.

Put it this way - if you don't go into detail about it within 24 hours I stop listening to ooba, move my vote back to you, and campaign for your lynch the rest of the day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Explain why I should? what does it matter if I do or dont post it? I have locked myself into the reasoning and the posts from which the reasoning stems... yet you suggest I have no reasoning? or what? why are you trying to make me post a case on WC when I want the SD lynch?

Well because if you want me to take you seriously with there being any possibility of you NOT being Mafia this game you need to start somewhere.

You want to play the "I'm not going to give reasons because I'm totes cool" game feel free to continue.

Posting a general post number and a stupid picture isn't reasoning. Sorry ... it's not. Be explicit as to what specifically you see as scummy behavior and why you think it is such.

Or don't and get wagon / Blasterized. I'm not too particular at this point.

@ooba

- Please either get your Town read to not play like Sammy Scumbag or stop trying to convince me he's a bad lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What is scummy about not posting it in the next 24 hours?

Also why are you not voting SD? I see you reply to nearly all my posts but not my case on SD, couldnt find a fault? strange... so you must think hes scum?

I’m going to address this post in relation to the two halves.

On Part 1 –

There is nothing scummy about 24 hours. That’s an arbitrary deadline I have established. What’s scummy is saying “I think WC scum”, being asked why, and responding with a vague reference, a picture of a bird, and the phrase “I’m not motivated, maybe later”. The deadline is to induce motivation.

On Part 2 –

1. The cheeky stance that “I’ve read your case and couldn’t find fault with it so I must agree” just absolutely oozes as "Look at me I'm scum". It couldn’t be farther from the truth. I read your case. It was as non-compelling to me as I’m guessing it has been to everyone else given that it has generated no support. Whatever your personal delusion about it being “rock-solid” stems from it’s completely misplaced.

2. Shadow is Town. I’ve gone so far as to call him obv-Town. I didn’t like him in my recent run-down of scum. Your inference here is that I’m scum because I’m not acting logically for reasons A and B when both are fabriactions on your part.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome idanyboy. Content stat please!

--

After Post 198 I feel even better about my vote and this wagon. I’ll summarize his conclusions –

1. Kurtis’s slot was useless.
2. Peregine is not scum-hunting and fluffing.
3. Malee is Town and Slandaar is being fence-sat upon.
4. First sighting of actual direct comment that someone is scummy. Note, unlike the long posts at 2 and 3 where there is tons of verbage Wrath has no reason WHY Nexus is scummy.
5. Kdub is Town. Given I’ve already pegged them as possible partners this is not surprising.
6. Ooba’s postings are hollow and he has ‘bad feelings’ about him. I need to go back and see what Wrath’s feeling were prior to ooba’s vote on him.
7. Fennin has issues surrounding him but Wrath doesn’t want to repeat (as in actually take a stance) on them. Malee, kdub and Slandaar are all Town if he flips scum (despite the fact he’s already called two of the three Town).
8. I’m Town. I hate buddying.
9. Midnight is useless.
10. Iec isn’t faking a post restriction and I’m going to call him not scum via Mod Outguessing.
11. CDB, Elmo, Kurtis (again), Midnight (again), Andy and Nexus (again, but he was also scummy earlier) are useless.

So when you get to actual commitment to positions in this thread we have –

Nexus is scummy.
Malee and Kdub are Town.

That’s it. The rest is fence-sitting / non committal garbage. Not to mention that lumping Andy in with CDB and the rest is so incorrect (he doesn’t have a ton of posts but has more content than at least half the player-list) it hurts my brain.

Who is Wrath voting? Nobody. No vote since the thread re-opened

When you write as much as Wrath has but commit to basically zero postitions on who is scum it’s active lurking seeking Town activity points.

More Wrath votes!

--

Its a parrot type of bird was important.

It isnt a vague reference I gave you a post number.

The type of bird really has no relevance given it explains nothing about scum motivation. So did you mean Post 80 specifically? Because the phrase “around post 80” is a vague reference.

I dont want to fuel a WC lynch at this point. I want the SD lynch therefore I dont feel like posting the reasoning right now. It is nothing to do with motivation.

SD/

WC

/Malee(sleepy)/Fennin
Thats team scum.

Hello Captain Scumbag!!!

Let’s look closely at this folks …in Post 177 Slandaar calls out the WrathChild as a member of the scum-team.

Yet when called to explain his read he says what we see at Post 204.

If Slandaar was Town looking to hang scum and listed WrathChild as a member of his suspected scum team you would think he would have no problem actually saying why he is scum or voting him.

But instead we get this – “I don’t want to fuel his wagon because I want my Shadow wagon (which no-one buys) instead”. That’s not a sign of Town hunting scum.

That’s a scum-claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Partly the way SD has left us to duke it out since he started the lurker stuff.

Um I was the one who pointed out you were posting on site while not posting in thread so if anyone started the “Slandaar was selectively avoiding the thread” it was me.

--

Hey, Magna.

The reason I didn't take solid stances in that post

was because I needed to analyze current events first. I'm not like Slandaar and I'm not running around throwing my hands up in the air yelling OMG Scum!

Keep the bolded in mind when you read the rest of what I quote. Remember, WrathChild is directly saying he didn’t take any solid stances.

Additionally let me translate something for you useless = scummy.

Then why didn’t you actually call them scummy in the first place? Keep in mind – you just said you didn’t actually take any solid positions.

Andy has only recently started to contribute. Look at the archive. How are my town reads fence-sitting? I was getting my re-read done and putting down my initial thoughts before I went through the current thread events which should certainly have an impact on my reads from the original thread. And calling me out for not voting? Come on, the tiger attack sent this game in a tail spin and it came back online while I was on a business trip. I'm not capable of just hitting the ground on this thread at the moment. Plenty of other players aren't voting.

1. You are once again conflagrating posting volume with contributions. I have read the archive. Andy does not spam like others but his posts are generally VERY content rich.
So saying he is not contributing is bunk.
2. I said you were fence-sitting on every read but Malee and Kdub. Your misread / attempt to misrep is noted.
3. The content is the archive is still content. You should easily be able to provide solid reads (which again, you directly admit you did not do) from those post.
4. The thread has been open for 8 Days. You’ve had plenty of time to compile basically useless posts that give no reads. Instead you could have easily jotted down notes from the archive and given your scum / Town reads from there. Instead you chose to post what is essetntially fluff that makes you look active.
5. “Why me” tell noted.

Can everyone please read my post and not MoI's worthless recap of it. Let me point out some important distinctions here:

I do want everyone to read Post 199 where he posts his information, Post 211 where he says “I didn’t take any solid stances”, and then Post 212 where he immediately contradicts himself and tries to portray his post as full of solid stances. And then vote Wrath.

8. I'm starting to question MoI's towness after this terrible straw man recap by him. I've played with MoI scum and with MoI town, but never has MoI actually lockjawed on me like this. Usually I find logic in his cases and didn't see him be this aggressive as scum. However, I was never the focus of his attacks in previous games so I can't tell if this is a biased perception or not. The recap by him was extremely poor and a pretty clear manipulation of my comments. I don't like it.

Throwing Wikiterms like ‘straw-man’ isn’t going to disguise your OMGUS right here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna:So when I suspect WC but don't make him my top suspect, it's "distancing", yet when WC calls me town, it's further evidence that we are partners. If WC had called me scum instead, would you have reached the opposite conclusion? My bet is that you would have called that "distancing" as well.

I had you down as possible partners pre-clash based on your interactions. Nothing in this thread has so far changed that.

Case in point - since the game started you have flirted with Wrath as a possible scum-suspect but never approached questioning him in any significant fashion or actually voting for him. Just some mild "I think Wrath might be scum".

Wrath began the early game in the Archive with some suspicions about you and Nero as partners that melted away over time. Suddenly, upon his finally posting some content, you are obv-Town. I absolutely need to go back and pull quotes.

But let's continue - I see you have zero focus on Wrath. What do you think of his catch-up post and subsequent reaction? Do you still think he is scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Huzzah!

At this stage I think my thoughts are pretty well established and I want to hear reads and thoughts from all our helpful replacements!

Thanks to all of you no matter what your alignment turns out to be! You can't play Mafia without players!

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: SD

Magna explain SDtown to me

Nope.jpg. I don't justify my Town reads to scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: WrathChild

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well he was still in the game at that point and it wasn't clear that he was going to be replaced, so there was still a chance to pressure him and get answers, but since he's been replaced now, you are correct.

This fails to explain why you haven’t done any questioning of Wrath, who you were calling scum, while parking your vote on Fennin. Wrath was here and he had plenty of content in the prior thread to question / attack.

--

hi, replacing cdb, anything important in the archive I should keep in mind?

Just read it yourself. It’s not that long and that will keep your insights untainted.

--

I provided a lot of insights and comments and now that the game crashed again for two weeks you all should be thankful that I posted something like that and save you a shit load of time going back through the nightmare archives... again... to get caught up. Now you can scum hunt with out wasting so much archive time. Your welcome. It will be my legacy when I die.

What is this? We should be thankful that you put together your summaries? Firstly summaries like that do nothing for scum-hunting. You are giving very, very limited comments that don’t show the actual context and wording originally found in the archive. Secondly the archive itself is not that hard to catch up on. Asserting that you’ve saved everyone tons of time and that you are very Pro-Town doing so isn’t true.

--

Fennin (for crumbing the way he did)

When you get back you need to explain in full why you suspect Fennin for this.

--

Unvote.
Vote: BBmolla

FoS: Midnight, WrathChild

You said you re-read. Reasons are necessary. Show them.

--

I think I still prefer SD lynch

But really Magnascum seems very possible...

Oh, so now I’m back to being scum again. Noted.

PEW PEW PEW

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since we’ve had a really erratic Day 1 thanks to the crash and otherwise I thought I would put my case on both Slaandar and WrathChild from both thread together for everyone to see.

First up – Slaandar

--

The following post from

Archive Page 3

is what first really made Slaandar hit my scum-dar:

why are you voting kise fennin?

you dont get to vote without reasons like I do.

Slaandar had been flopping his vote around with pretty much no reasoning. This post first struck me as odd for the inconsistency on two fronts –

1. The “I can do this but you can’t” standard isn’t a Town point of view IMO.
2. Slaandar was questioning Fennin in regards to this but doesn’t seem to really care about the ‘tell’ – one the same page Kurtis voted for CDB with no reason and in fact Nexus called him out on it immediately.

Next comes

Archive Post 127

–

Malee please view the activity overview

Now

If you can explain why you felt the need to make some huge town looking analysis which says very little when the game has only been out of RVS for about 3 pages that would be great.

Firstly we see Slaandar floating the “I’m active so I must be Town” sentiment that he’s been trying to pass off all game when activity isn’t anything other than a play-style tell.

Second we see the start of his attack on Malee for actively posting content which is scummy as I’ve explained before.

Archive Post 134

solidifies this stance:

I tell you what I will explain why you are prob scum then you tell me what you think;

You have just made huge town-looking walls that say literally nothing. I read them and at the end I ws like 'well that was pointless' now;
The question is why did you think it is a good idea to post such walls and so early in the game when there is so little to analyse
Probably scum looking for town cred from walls/effort
If you were town you should be able to realise how little there is to analyse and therefore realise ISOing everyone accomplishes nothing.

Now we move on to you omgusing as soon as I dont give you the towncred for your effort

as town you would not care because you didnt post for towncred
as scum you care you just put in effort for no return and so are annoyed at me -> omgus

This is not even mentioning the way your NC/Fennin/Vince reads do not align correctly

1. As discussed Malee’s posts say quite an adequate amount for a general reads set of posts on page 5/6. So that portion of the attack is poor.
2. The premise that making walls is a Town cred grab coming from scum is very poor considering his personal stance that making tons of posts is a Town tell. What this reads as is a play-style difference that he is trying to pass off as a scum-tell.
3. Note when analysing Slandaar’s play later he is trying to pass off OMGUS reaction to pressure as a scum tell. Then compare that with his own play where he attacks Shadow and myself directly once we suspect him. Cognitive Dissoance.

Next we have:

Too many questions being directed at me not enough time to answer

I am town.

so no more suspicions need to come my way.

OK? OK!

Now let me scumhunt without being asked tons of useless questions.

He later tries to say this was directed at me but nothing in the post itself says that. Furthermore it’s further inconsistency / hypocrisy that he doesn’t want to answer questions but expects others to do so.

His very next post shows this –

Show me why you think this.

I need to see quotes and you explaining how that implies its 'because she posted content' and not 'what the content says'.

Here he immediately requests answers and quotes to prove a point.

And at

196

we have another case of OMGUS out of Slandaar in regards to Fennin – he attacks him directly for suspecting him for his bad Malee case:

Why single me the actual lead antagonist of Malee and not the many sheep who followed me fennin? am I really some scum mastermind leading town onto Malee?

you are not genuinely scumhunting are you.

I’ve already pointed out his the inconsistency in

Archive Post 190 and 192

in my

Archive Post 251

.

I think

Archive 320

post by me pretty clearly outlines another scummy move that Slandaar does rather consistently – try to turn attacks against him on others without showing how they are invalid. In this case it was my pointing out he wasn’t doing anything in follow-up.

Then at

Archive Post 325

he begins trying to spin that my attacks on him are attempts by scum to “draw attention to myself and off Malee and Fennin”. Yet attempt to frame any action taken against him as only possibly being scum motivated. I can’t be someone who thinks he’s scum … nope I’m scum who is desperately trying to get attention off other players.

And now we transition into the active thread –

I think it has already been rehashed to death my stance on his avoidance of the thread until I called him out.

Again at Post 51 we get another round of “Anyone who suspects me is scum”.

Now let’s move on to the scummiest play he’s made in the new thread – Post 102 where he floats the concept of a 1v1 me versus him. He immediately (Post 105) begins attempting to say I’m backing off my scum read on him since I didn’t move my vote to him and say “Yup, 1 v 1 you must die”. He continues on this line of thinking saying I “failed a reaction test”. The kicker is of course he didn’t vote when he proposed this 1v1 or at any time during the discussion. So his conclusion is that I’m scum for having my vote on another suspect (Wrath) and not showing my ‘commitment’ to him as scum. Yet he’s Town as him taking the same course of action was a ‘test’ of me. Cognitive Dissonance in his reasoning.

His response to another bout of Cognitive Dissonace I highlighted in Post 116.

Post 137 is his move to ‘meta’ away his suspicion of me. I’m scum who tried to deflect from two partners (Malee and Fennin). I’m scum for failing his 1v1 ‘reaction test’. I’m scum for suspecting his pop-up appearance when I called him out. Yet suddenly I’m Town because I am tunneling. Reads to me as appeasement – if I stop calling MoI scum maybe he’s leave me alone and go away. Lulz, no.

Finally around Post 177 he lists WrathChild (the play under the most pressure in thread aside from himself) on his scum-team. When I ask him to show his reasoning he gives a pointless photo and says “Maybe later” to his suspicion at Post 190. That reasoning never comes despite me hammering on him to provide it. I wanted Slandaaar on record for relational tell reasoning with Wrath. Wrath just suddenly appeared on his scum list and Slan can’t provide reason for why. Yet at Post 204 he specifically refused to vote Wrath for the following reasons –

I dont want to fuel a WC lynch at this point. I want the SD lynch therefore I dont feel like posting the reasoning right now. It is nothing to do with motivation.

Um whut? He doesn’t want to wagon a scum suspect? That’s clearly not Town. He insists on non-starter singleton vote on Shadow as opposed to actually trying to hang a suspect with some momentum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

YES YES YES
IM ALMOST HOME
AND THEN I'LL PROVIDE
*content*

Failure to actually do this in your next post will result in me reaching through the Internet and giving you an Atomic Wedgie. You have been warned …

--

I didn't think there was anything of his (WC) worth responding to, whereas I was focusing on trying to get support for my stronger suspect. Like I said, my initial read on him was pre-crash, and his post-crash play has basically been nothing.

And that’s my point. Pretty much all of his posts pre-crash are there for you to scum-hunt from. And in looking at the Archive your read there wasn’t based on any direct interactions either, IMO. I'm not seeing any effort on your part to actually push a Wrath wagon at any point. Or even explain your read. Your vote has pretty much been affixed to Fennin for the long term.

Plus you still have “Blastergate” at the front of my mind.

--

I'd support a lynch on:
Andrius

Now that you have caught up you need to actually explain this read.

--

Let us discuss something... But please no walls.

Nope. Learn to live with long and detailed responses. Forums Mafia is a game of written words. Dislike that I actually use them? Not my problem.

In 9-10 days, do you find it scummy that I changed one opinion... my opinion on you?

I think my case just posted should answer this for you.

I basically rethought a WIFOM reason, do you remember how I thought you re town? nothing to do with your arguments it was all to do with how ridiculous your tunneling of me is. The thing is I realised something, 'killed night 1'. Which I assume is true, so when you are scum you need to batter down lynches because on day 2/3 when you are not dead people will ask why you are not. Use your influence early as scum. The feelings of WC/Kdub adds to this hugely.

Yup, keep trying to handwave away my suspicion on you as ridiculous. That always works so well when dealing with me.

And this is a scummy line of thinking on your self-admitted WIFOM.

1. I have a title “Killed Night 1”
2. Your conclusion from this is that my relentless scum-hunting comes from scum because I want to push through lynches before I’m not dead and people question it.

Yup, that’s moronic. I certainly as Town wouldn’t be looking to find and hang scum before my usual early demise in an attempt to help my Wincon. Nope, that’s not reasonable at all.

Do you seriously think I am scum still?

Derp. Of course

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI- Early arguments with WC made him early suspect. But less so now.

Can you link or reference in some way what you are responding to here?

--

You still have not dropped the lurking argument. This shows you are pushing too hard and do not care on the answers I give you.

Great. Explain to me why Town who has a scum-read on someone has to take their statements at face value. Scum never lie, right?

Do you see how my read on you and how it has changed would be nearly impossible to fake? it changes with new information, do you see that? do you think im scum who can replicate this kind of flowingness to my reads?

Nearly impossible to fake? Flowningness? Um, no.

There’s been no new information. Here’s how I see your read on me.

1. OMGUS – Magna thinks I’m scum so he’s scum.
2. Appeasement – He’s not letting up so I’ll stop calling him scum and call him Town hoping he will focus elsewhere.
3. OMGUS – I’ll fabricate some WIFOM argument and call him scum again since 2 didn’t work.

also where is SD magna?

Good question. He hasn’t logged onto MS for over two weeks. Is he scum for not posting within 3 days of the thread opening? Yes or no answer please!

--

UNVOTE:

PEW PEW PEW

--

Don't worry, MoI says Andy is obv-town, so just trust him or he'll call you scum 500 times.

So once I post my case you can respond to the case instead of just stating that I’ve just been calling you scum with no reason.

--

In fairness, Iecerint would like to note that Iecerint has sometimes crumbed Iecerint's rolename in games (most recently in [REDACTED]), even while understanding that it makes no sense. This is more likely to happen when Iecerint receives a rolename Iecerint flavorenjoys.

So you see a reasonable possible explanation for Fennin’s action. Is he scum for the crumb?

[MagnaofIllusion]

He wont drop ONE point against me that actually applies in a more extreme manner to TWO (Andrius/SD) of his 'townreads'

Hohoho you fucking lying scumbag.

True or False -

You posted on site after the thread was opened in other threads here on MS?
You posted in the Reboot Queue thread actively saying you wanted to play more?
You failed over the course of 5 days to click ANYWHERE on site other than the thread you were posting in?
You popped up out of the blue right after I called you out?

Now point to those elements that apply to Andrius or Shadow! I'll be waiting you cheeky fucking scumbag.

PEW PEW PEW

[MagnaofIllusion]

IIecRC, Iecerint thought Fennin was scummy for attacking Slandaar for attacking Malee (i.e. before the crumb had even been identified, back when Iecerint thought Slandaar was 110% obvtown and Malee was suspect). So reasonable people can think Fennin is scummy for reasons that have nothing to do with the crumb.

So is Slandaar 110% obvtown to you still? I don't see much in the way of reads from your slot these days.

[MagnaofIllusion]

As Iecerint has already indicated (I think? And Ooba said something similar, too, IIecRC), Slandaar's play since the reboot has been unsettling. Hence, Slandaar does not remain at 110%. Iecerint still thinks Slandaar is town, though, as the original town read was unambiguous, and Iecerint has learned to trust these impressions most of the time.

Great. List your 4 biggest scum reads currently with a line or two about why each is scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Peregrine, do you have a seperate role name and role?

@Peregrine

– You need to answer this in your next post!

--


Iecerint pretty much refuses to commit to any reads or scum-hunt in his posting. Very non-commital and Anti-Town of you Iec.

--

Slandaar

– Stop dodging and answer the four questions I asked in Post 288. They go directly to the heart of your bullshit attempt to fabricate a claimed inconsistency in my play.

You are accusing me of avoiding a thread. What proof is there that I didnt know thread existed? none.
SD/Anrius know of thread but just dont post

The massive inconsistency here is staggering.

You state that no ‘proof’ exists that you were avoiding the thread and thus you can’t be suspected. Nevermind that, once again, you were posting actively on site during the time frame when you ‘didn’t know’ the thread was open (5 or so Days) and had actively posted in the Reboot Queue thread stating you wanted to play (which you claim to never have checked again).

Simultaneously you make a statement (“SD/ Andrius know of thread but just don’t post”) that there is no ‘proof’ for. You cannot prove that they knew the tread was open. Again, nevermind that Andy posted with 2 days of the thread being open without being called out.

Yup – you are so starggeringly contradictory in your post it can ‘t be from a Town perspective IMO.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sleepykrew is an acceptable lynch for me on policy after Post 316.

Oh look, Iec has an invisible and I’m going to assume unproveable ‘punishment’ for breaking his ‘post restriction’. How quaint.

@Peregrine

– one more Prod-dodge without answering BB’s question and you get my vote. Even over obv-scum WrathChild.

@WrathChild

– should I not think you are making your cases solely on the viability of that player’s lynch not based on what you see as actual scumminess?

--

Scums
MoI
Peregrine
Andrius
BBMolla (= Fennin)

And now is the point where put you on the likely scum / PEW PEW PEW list. Because I’ve played with Town Iec. Town Iec may be infuriating but he doesn’t Herp-A-Derp lurk it up and post basically non-content.

--

I have an opinion on the Peregrine "slip" and some subsequent reactions to it, but I'll wait until he answers the question about his role name to share.

I eagerly await this input.

--

I think we need to direct blasterfire btw.

Nope.jpg.

It’s already been explained why this is a terrible idea that benefits scum far more than Town. That said I’m not shocked to see you floating it since you are scum and all.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, recent activity shows me that PeregrineV has made a full page of posts all over site but is dodging this thread and answering what is needed from him.

I can't stand that.

UNVOTE: WrathChild
VOTE: PeregrineV

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA this weekend staring at 1pm EDT today for Easter and regular family duties.

@Anyone with Concerns about my focus on Slandaar

– the following quote encapsulates my problem with his slot, distilled right down to the core.

I think that slot is scum. What is your point? just a little fact; she replaced out here before some other games she was in.

In Post 369 Slandaar responds to SOO who pointed out his constant weak shots at Malee’s slot with that.

He’s basically giving himself the freedom to make any action a ‘scum-tell’ (including the order that Malee replaced out of games) since he has a Scum read on the slot. That's Town play is Slandaar's stance.

Simultaneously he is banging me about my suspicion of him and saying “He’s attacking something that isn’t a scum-tell, he’s scum”. So I have a scum read on his slot and am interpreting his actions in a way consistent with my read. And I'm scummy for doing that.

Cognitive Dissonance in full bloom. I’m giving the thread a break from pointing out the many, many other scummy posts Slandaar has made since enough people have groused about it. Make no mistake – I still have a solid scum read on the slot.

--

If you refer to the lack of specific reasons, it's because that's not how the decisions were made. Rather, my guts churn sometimes. Any reasons produced would be framing events in light of my churning, which means they would mainly be rhetorical. When churnings are judged trustworthy enough for sharing, specific statements have been made of the form "X is town."

If you want to take the ‘mysterious and guarded’ route and say “it’s gut” and are scum then by all means go ahead. It will make hanging you easier long term.

You ISO, on review, is filled to the core with fluff. Why again should I think you are Town?

--

@MoI: Umm, I'm the first person to push a case/lynch on Peregrine, how is that being opportunistic as you are implying?

It has to do with timing and circumstances. The actual PBP case you laid out happened just after BB pointed out facts regarding Peregrine’s fishing that really put him on the Hot-seat. You, however, had already voted Peregrine in a post where you responded to Kdub with the reasoning “Let’s try something fresh”. Yes, you did express soft suspicion of Peregrine in your Post 198. The timing of your ‘case’ (which happened at least 5 days after your vote) may just be pure coincidence but does look suspect to me given my read on you.

--

Why him over me?

Um, whut? Why did I suspect the person pushing the scum role-fish / crumb attack over the person whose slot I haven’t found scummy all game and made a rather insightful post regarding the first person?

--

Now, why do you want to make sure that we know you are Yoda? Given mod rule #4, help me understand the mentality of breadcrumbing ANYTHING.

Are you seriously asking this question? If you are you simply aren’t thinking at all from a Town perspective and need Rope ASAP.

@Shadow (371)- You seem to indicate that Slandaar is scummy, but so am I? Are we scum together?

You know that this is? A bona-fide slip.

Free internet cookies to anyone who can point out why.

The town motivation is none, since your claim will be believed or disbelieved on the merits of your play at the time you actually make the claim.

The scum motivation is that because the character is a good guy in the star wars universe, you will breadcrumb the good guy role in the hopes that come claim time, you can point back and say, "see, I'm Yoda, a good guy! I hinted back in post 1!" hoping that that will weigh more in the mind of the audience than the mod's admonition that it has no bearing on alignment in this game.

Does this make sense? If not, explain how you are confused and I will try and clear it up for you.

Nope, doesn’t make sense at all.

1. That you can think of

NO

Town motivation for the slot’s breadcrumbing means you aren’t approaching the game from a Town perspective.
2. The fact that you pointed out Mod Rule 4 undercuts completely your ‘scum motivation’.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Iec does not require you to think that Iec is town. However, Iec feels uncomfortable when you request specific content, dispute the content of the content requested, and then call Iec scum. (Though that really doesn't sound that outrageous when Iec writes it out like that....)

And I don't really care what you dislike, honestly.

A list of names is not content. Sorry, it's not. Content is material with which we can judge whether your motivations and claims make sense and come from a Town perspective. Slandaar is providing tons of content to be judged by. You are providing, at least post Reboot, nothing more than lists (which you excuse with 'gut') and fluff surrounding your Post Restriction.

So no, your assertion that I requested content and you provided actual content is inaccurate.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The fact that only BB has bothered to comment on Peregrine’s slip makes me go hmmmm…

--

I'm not voting PV because he leans town for me. A lot of people have scum reads on PV and the reasons are going over my head. WC's case on PV was based on lack of good content in his ISO, a lack that has been remedied.

Do I find it impossible for him to be scum? Far from it, but I'd much rather rid town of you.

Hey Shmugen … care to explain the bolded for me?

@BB: Firstly, you're a moron if you think any game with this amount of testers would have a role that was unkillable all by themselves.

Please give me your credintials that indicate you have extensive experience balancing games here on MS to make such a statement.

I say a lot of things in 'odd' ways, and believe you me, I almost wish I was scum.

Now I have to put you in the Scum pool also Shmugen …

--

there is a difference between scum tone and town tone.

scum have more of a 'lynch this scum' tendencies throughout their posts while town have more 'is this scum' tendencies.

not liking how BBmolla tries to paint PV as a rolefisher. peregrine was clearly speculating on why someone would lead D1 with an obvious breadcrumb, nothing to do with actual role information.

Moving Anxiety into my scum pool for this post.

--

Meh. Fennin was barely tipping the nullscummy scales.
My games with BBMolla have both been me=town and him =scum, so I'm keeping my eye on him. The breadcrumb thing is probably one of those MD discussions.

Other than the breadcrumbing (which you suggest is a MD issue and thus possibly not a scum-tell) what about Fennin’s play said he was barely null? I don’t see anything in your ISO other than the breadcrumb element.

@MoI (re breadcrumbing) saying it doesn't make it true, and all you've done it said it. Through the whys in there and I'll listen.

If you were Town you’d have considered the whys and understood that stating them was anti-Town. Now that BBMolla has claimed I’ll actually say them –

1. VT player with a ‘Big Theme Name’ breadcrumbs said name as a means to draw a Nightkill / Block and help out Town power-roles.
2. Players with Nightkill / Targetting immunity seeking to also draw Nightkill / Blocks / other scum powers for the same reason as 1.
3. Drawing out scum-bags who aren’t thinking on a Town basis.

Possibly Fennin was trying 2, but clearly it also applied to 3 since it netted you.

@BBMolla- No one wants you claim. And I find your crumbing excuse lacking.

I don’t want you to claim but I’ll just keep repeating that I don’t find your explanations reasonable unless you claim …

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW

--

Wait. You and your predecessor claimed one of the most powerful PRs in the game and you think there are other PRs more powerful than yours? You have no problem being NKed!? You go back and forth from being unkillable to being untargetable by force powers and blasters and back again. Before Peregrine weaseled a claim out of you I thought it was pretty obvious your slot was town, but now I have no idea because you just farmed it so hard. Still, if Peregrine is scum as I expect he is, then I think you're just playing dumb not scum.

1. Please indicate how Information roles are not considered ‘Powerful’ and important to Town in your thinking.
2. He was Town up until a scum read of yours pushed him to claim and now you don’t know? Please explain how that makes any sense.

--

BB: You're saying your role would be OP for scum? It's pretty fucking OP for town too. Do not believe.

So you are saying with theoretically (if you are Town, anyway) no idea of the set-up to make a balance judgement this is your conclusion?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So here you are saying that, using this logic, town Emperor Palantine should be breadcrumbing his ass off. You know, big theme name and all.

Charming attempt to say that I was advocating a position where players MUST do something when I said nothing of the sort. And by charming I mean scummy.

If Palpentine (or whatever his name is) was a Town VT or Nightkill / Action immune role then breadcruming it could be a good move. Since he’s Town the scum know he is (barring some sort of Serial Killer / Multi-scum set-up) and thus may decide to use some actions / a kill on him that could fail / protect other Town players.

It is necessary? Of course not. Some of us have no problem drawing kills / actions as VTs. But once again - you lack of understanding of the Town perspective speaks volumes.

He could have merely said "I'll take care of that tonight" if he wanted to "draw the NK". But that's NOT what he did.

So what? That means his reaction is bad not scummy.

Since I don't agree with your 1, and and think your 2 is weak, I disagree. If I thought he was all townie and scary and shit as scum, I'd just NK his ass, not muck it all up in the thread.

Does NO U usually work for you? I’ll be frank – I don’t buy your WIFOM about what scum Peregrine would and wouldn’t do. The fact that you don’t find ANYTHING else about Fennin’s play anything but Null but pushed scummily on the breadcrumb issue means you need to die.

No matter what I say your going to interpret it the way YOU want and then try to attribute it to me?

Yup, the good old “Can’t Win, Will Not Try” defense.

Eat rope.

Basically claiming anything about how kills can be made before they are made indicates inside knowledge. And your not only doing that, your expressing multiple kill types?

Just like making arguments revolving around you ‘not making sense’ as someone’s Partner before N1 even falls. Town doesn’t know if we are Mutli-scum / Mafia and SK.

--

1. I do not understand well why people think PV is scum. I believe he may be town, but I am not opposed to changing my mind on this point later in the game. I would much rather lynch Slandaar than PV.

Yeah, I completely botched that read of what you were trying to say. Makes sense when you spelled it out here.

I have no experience balancing games here on MS. I think the reason games require review to be played are to catch large holes that the designer may have missed. I refuse to believe that the designer and however many reviewers the game had all missed that Yoda was unkillable. Now, bulletproof is a viable role, but to assume that a combination of powers on a single character would make someone bulletproof on day 1 without that being the stated intent of the role seems insane to me.

Then you don’t honestly know what you are talking about then when you are discussing it ‘slipping by reviewers’. I’ve been a role (wiped out by Tiger Attack) that was completely immune to all actions at Night if I chose and was Town. In fact it was even more powerful than that but that element alone shows that your understanding of what is reasonably possible in a set-up is flawed.

--

What slip are you referring to?

The slip I pointed out in Post 395. Simply skimming my posts to see when I address you Wrath?

1. Please indicate where I said information roles are not considered powerful or important to Town. However, a Bulletproof, Untargetable, Self-Redirector is definately among "ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PRs IN THE GAME". Another example of you misrepping me. This is actually a very scummy stab by you.

In your flurry of questions you said –

You and your predecessor claimed one of the most powerful PRs in the game and you think there are other PRs more powerful than yours?

The implication is clear as fucking day that he shouldn’t think there are other roles more powerful than his. Information roles are incredibly powerful and it makes logical sense for a player, from a Town perspective, to have formulated a plan to draw NK / Blocks with his claimed role to free up possible investigation roles to do their thing.

So no, the scummy play is squarely in your court.

2. Wrong, if you read my summary, you'd know that I thought it was scummy when Fennin was in the slot, but when BB came in and said Fennin had a plan it was pretty obvious what that was, which made me think he was town. I don't know about him anymore because he panic-claimed far from a lynch, regardless if it was the direct result of Peregrine or not, it was still an over-eager claim. I have a really hard time telling the difference between bad and scummy play, you know this.

Are you referring to your long IoA ‘summaries’ that I found to be very vague and fence-sitty? Yeah, I read those. Your point?

You are flip-flopping back and forth on the issue like a fish out of water. First Fennin is scummy but then BB was likely Town but now you don’t know whether he is bad or scum.

Just to clarify, you think me AND peregrine are scum?

Why can’t you be?

--

Chainsaw much? Iso ooba's posts and tell me you seriously believe there's scumhunting there. There's no reasoning for his scumpicks in the post you cited, but there is reasoning for the players he wouldn't vote for i.e. buddying. ooba strikes me as someone who is posting just to post, wanting a presence in the thread without ruffling too many feathers. Parroting others on WC seems like safe play designed to not draw attention.

Have you ever played with Town ooba before? And use of Chainsaw before any alignment flips noted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Slandaar’s Post 480 can be summed up as “Nexus is voting me so he’s scum”.

Ooba and Andrius have their Town reads revoked and are now classified as Null reads.

--

unvote,vote: Andrius

Um, whut? Your reaction to being put in my scum suspects pool is to vote Andrius?

--

1. Post 395 "Slip": I didn't know what the slip was, that's why I asked.

And now you’ve been directly linked to my pointing it out and don’t comment at all ...

2. The implication!? I said ONE of the most powerful PRs, IMPLYING that there are MORE THAN ONE powerful PRs, which his surely is ONE OF. You are smoking crack and make no sense. The fact that you are even arguing this is mind-blowing.

Then what exactly is the point of ‘calling BB out’ with all the questions then if you are not disagreeing with the premise of what would be his Town reason for his slot’s breadcrumb. You are ‘confused’ but the fact remains it makes logical sense for Fennin to have crumbed as he did with that claimed role to ‘protect’ other Town power-roles and little sense as scum to have crumbed Yoda given the oft-quoted Mod rule regarding alignment.

The fact that you call that flip flopping is stupid. Things happened, when things happen, reads can change. Oh I forgot, once you think someone is scum, you can never think otherwise, right MoI?

1. Oh certainly reads can changed. Either because Town gets new information or scum is forced to move stances. Using that as a defense doesn’t really apply.
2. More undermining and insulting language noted. If you’d like to point to where I said anything to that effect be free to link there. Otherwise this is just you misrepping my position. Your play has been suspect and scummy this game. I suspect you. Later events in the game may change that read.

4. Me and Peregrine scumbuddies?: I just thought it was pretty clear that we wanted each other dead and when whats-his-face came in and suggested it I was a bit surprised and asked him to clarify.

A ring-a-ding Wrath makes the exact same slip as Peregrine.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And your supposed to be investigating the person who first mentioned it, because scum notices breadcrumbs and care (right MoI?).

Scum caring are the people who kept making it an issue (like yourself).

My vote is in a good place.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Step 1: BBmolla claims to be unkillable

Kdub

- please explain to me why Day 1 the best reaction to this claim is to lynch it without any other flips or relational information by which to base it on. I'm quite curious to see your logic in why flipping him today is Pro-Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am not saying we should flip him specifically because of his claimed role. I am saying we should flip him because I think he is scum and there are relational tells to other players based on interactions and not his role.

I've yet to see anything OTHER than "Bread-crumb" / Rolegate thrown his way other than your "He wasn't answering my questions" charge which really doesn't mean much to me.

As to the relational tells you are going to need to justify why you would not then want to lynch any of them you found scummy as opposed to lynching that claimed Role. Because lynching Bulletproofs / Variants Day 1 makes ZERO sense from a Town perspective.

If he's Town his claim creates tough decisions for scum in a number of areas and he's specifically warned any Town Power Roles not to use their ability on him and waste it. And downside to his lynch at this stage far outweigh the possible benefits IMO.

You are going to have to do much better than what you have presented so far case-wise so far to get this lynch.
So either step up or revisit on futher days.

[MagnaofIllusion]

There are some people who think that a bulletproof claim is automatic grounds for a lynch, even if said player has been pro-town. I am not in that camp to that extreme, but I understand the sentiment - the player will never die other than via lynch, it tends to be a common SK/godfather power, and (in contradiction to what you claimed above) creates tough decisions for the town the closer they get to lylo with that player still alive. I'm surprised that you would claim the opposite here, but please explain. Regardless, it's not even BB's claimed role itself that bothers me, it's the flaws in his claim and the way he claimed it.

1. Yes, it does create a tough situation for scum. Firstly they have to consider whether Town BB is actually unkillable or not. Granted they may already have a notion from his claim as structured but they can't be 100% certain (or are morons). Thus they risk letting a player effective scum-hunt and become Obv-Town if they don't 'take him down' via lynch immediately. Which is why I highly suspect that at least one of the people who 'want him dead' are scum.

2. It's anecdotal but another MD thread had me collecting examples of Bulletproof claims and whether they were Town / Scum / 3rd Party and whether they were real. The fact that Serial Killers (and sometimes Godfathers) are bulletproof does not mean Town are Bulletproof in at least equal proportion. So unless you can find complete statistics on the spread of bulletproof roles between Town and Scum using that argument isn't valid.

3. Town of course would have to judge whether BB should be lynched closer to LYLO. That isn't today and pre-supposing it puts Town in a bad spot doesn't address the realities of gameplay that would happen between now and closer to LYLO. That argument is effectively Appealing to Fear with "What if he's scummy near LYLO" when there is no guarantee the game gets near LYLO with BB's alignment in doubt.

4. Your opinion of 'flaws' in his claim and 'problems with presentation' differ from mine. So again ... if you can't bring up anything outside the claim that warrants lynch at this stage and you are Town then you need to move on to other suspects. I find it suspect that you can't find suspects who are scummy independant of relationally with BB.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Got Error 500 message when responding so Syndrome gets a special for his eyes only response first before the rest of my posting -

First of all:
VOTE: MaguaofIllusion
I'll get to that in a second.

Would it be condescending to state that the fact you can’t even get my name correct is an indication of the quality of your post? Yes, but I'm doing it anyway.

1. His case on Slandaar is pretty much BS, and the fact that he pushed it so hard is scummy in itself. Why is he tunneling on Slandaar so hard for "dodging the thread" when other players were also not posting here? Why does he still continue to try and discredit Slandaar after posting a logical town explanation why he missed the thread? And why does he continue pressing charges even after other players confirmed to not receive a prod PM, and the mod confirmed to not have given everyone a prod? Why is he not attacking Andrius or ShadowDancer for doing the same later on? The whole ordeal really seems to me like mafia grasping at straws to get rid of a dangerous town player.

1. You’ll have to do better than a generic hand-wave of “His case is BS”. I’ve written a full case on Slandaar. Address specific points you feel are BS so I can slap your logic around a bit.
2. Slaandar’s argument is hardly solid and obv-Town logically. I’ve yet to see a logical explanation for him posting on site in other threads over a 5+ day period that doesn’t revolve around him being too lazy to look beyond the threads he as posting in. Here’s a hint – one of those threads was here in Theme Park. Simply scrolling his finger once in that time-frame would have revealed the ‘grand secret’ of this game being open.
3. Please show me documentation that Andrius and Shadow were posting on site in the time-frame where they were not posting here after the thread re-opened the secondn time. Until you can do that you are trying to manufacture a supposed ‘discrepancy’ in my behavior using incorrect facts. Scummy.

I wanted to respond to this in particular. After pretty much getting caught in his own contradiction, MoI's only response is "you're an idiot". Maybe Slandaar really just didn't bother clicking something other than bookmarks/subscriptions. How does this make him an idiot? And more importantly - even if he was lying about the whole thing and really did see the thread - HOW does that make him scum? Town lurk and avoid posting in threads all the time. Town also lies about it all the damn time. Your excuse is "he was under pressure" - pressure from who? Didn't seem like there was much pressure on anyone at the time.

1. What contradiction are you claiming exists? The one that you tried to assert above? Please give details so I can properly respond. Otherwise this is another wall of words meant to look impressive when it’s just empty fluff.
2. Slandaar was one of the top scum reads at the time the thread was Tiger Eaten along with Fennin and Malee. Your suggesting that no-one was being pressured at all is tanamount to saying nothing happened during the first 15 pages of the game.

Yeah, this whole case is garbage and I find MoI scummy for pushing it so hard.

More pointless rhetoric. Prove your assertion. Put up or shut up.

2. Constantly calling SD obvious town, without ever saying why. Bitch you better start explaining yourself. Is he "obvious town" because he's your scumbuddy? And why is Hasdgsadfdfg obvious town?

I’ve already explained why Shadow is obv-Town… do you not read? I love your empty bravado of “Bitch you better do this”. Or what? You’ll act like an aggressive 13 year old suburban spoiled brat whose never been in a fight but talks tons of trash more?

The rest of this just more pointless fluffery. What other than adding empty words do you expect to gain from typing “is it because he’s your partner”? Seriously that’s complete uselessness on the order of me asking you “Have you stopped obsessively masterbating yet?”. It’s a no-win question that serves no Town purpose.

Look at this shit. MoI is attacking Iec for providing content! Hypocrite.

He's constantly hand-waving scumtells directed at a select few of people

while bashing others for doing the same. Inconsistency in the way he hands out scum-reads. Probably adding Iec to your scumlist because he suspects you.

The irony of the bolded coming from you given your strenuous hand-waving in Slandaar’s defense is noted. Cognitivie Dissonance away!!!!

A list of names with no reasons why they are scum is not content. You suggesting it is?

Scumslip 1: knowing that there are Mafia Goons in this game. Scumslip 2: knowing that scum get blasters at all! The fact that you mention goons in particular getting blasters and not mafia in general is highly suspect and sounds like it could be coming from inside information - if you're going to assume scum get blasters at all, why assume it's only Goons? Where in the OP does it say anyone other than Vanilla Towns get blasters?

Lulz this is funny.

1. Scum slip for knowing ‘Mafia Goons’ are in the game? That’s cheeky and funny as all get out. Show me more multiple Mafiascum Large Theme completed games without at least one Mafia Goon. What you are peddling as ‘inside knowledge’ is not being a moron.
2. Do you not understand what the word regardless means? I ask because as you quoted form Archive Post 251 –

Regardless of whether Goons are considered Vanilla or not the concentration of Town with Blasters as opposed to Total with Blasters is going to be higher than the concentration of Town to total

This says “It does not matter if Mafia Goons get blaster like VTs per the OP or not … Town will have far more blasters in it’s hand than scum do”.

Should I consider it a scum-slip that you know there aren’t Mafia Goons in the game or that they don’t have Blasters like VTs?

And disregarding the scumslips - MoI is outright trying to stop all blaster strategy, which is scummy. I think it's pretty freaking important for town to have a consensus on who to shoot. We need at least 3 shots for the kill to count, so having NO discussion can lead to NO extra kill. We're essentially getting an extra lynch here - trying to say we shouldn't discuss it because scum can influence it is like saying we discuss who to vote in the topic because scum can influence our opinion. Fucking horrible logic there.

Nope.jpg. ‘Directing’ a group Vig is failure and only benefits Scum. I’ll lay out some facts of how Mafia works for you so you can be enlighted and perhaps understand.

1. VTs are in all likelihood the overwhelming majority of Town roles. Probably between 75 to 60%.
2. Town as a whole outnumber scum by at worst a 66% to 33% ratio and probably less. That’s at worst a 2-1 ratio.
3. Goons may or may not have blasters. Even if they do the ratio of Goons to scum Power-roles is at most likely at worst 50 / 50 assuming a single scum team.

20 people started this game. Worst case Town started off with a 14-6 ratio. And for this purpose we are assuming a Single Scum team.

So at 60% VT ratio we have 8 Town Blaster votes.
At 50% Goon with Blasters they have 3 Blaster votes.

Town in this scenario have a 8-3 advantage and hold 73% of the Night Blastare votes.

In this same set-up Town holds a 14-6 advantage of general “Direct the Night action” day discussion votes, and thus hold a 66.% percent of the vote.

Town are better off letting each Town member judge who is scummy and worth shooting at Night than letting Scum as a whole help direct Blaster fire at scummy looking Townies and away from their own members.

If Goon don’t have Blaster’s it’s a slam-dunk since Town holds 100% of the Night actions but only 66.6% of the Day discussion.

Of course I can show you multiple games where publicly ‘directing’ Vig shots as opposed to letting the Vigs exercise their own judgment failed miserable and helped scum immensely. Perfect example – Cyclic Experiment X01.

I think I've said enough for now, but don't think I'm done.

Oh I hope so. Either you will continue to show that your arguments are weak and possibly scummy or you just might convince the scum-team that they actually have a chance of mislynching me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – Please give us a Vote Count ASAP. It is not very helpful this close to deadline to have no confirmed vote-counts to analyze and based decisions on

@Syndrome

– you probably need to weigh in with an opinion on Post 549 in your next offering to the thread.

Dislike briz’s return to the thread at Post 538.

--

Why are you voting me again Nexus?

oh right... because I call myself town.

Seems like legit scumhunting.

As legitimate as voting everyone who calls you scum.

--

MAGNA DONT YOU LEAVE ME FOR A PEREGRINE WAGON.
SLANDAAR STILL BREATHES.

Not for long he doesn’t. I certainly vote him today. He’s one of my 4 or 5 acceptable lynches.

Where have you been? Don’t say LOL.

How familiar are you with DeathNote and his games?

This is a good point.

--

Just so we're absolutely clear on your position, you don't find the fact that he amended his claim after being questioned to be suspicious? And I have brought up stuff outside the claim (which several others have agreed with previously), you just don't agree with it apparently.

I have absolutely no problem with the way the claim unfolded. In fact it is a Town tell. Scum wouldn’t have any reason to not carefully have prepared their claim.

And yes, I don’t agree with “Ignoring me questions” is scummy. And I don’t recall any other points outside the claim that I found compelling. If I’m missing something please let me know.

BB is extremely active elsewhere on the site with the deadline coming up soon.

BB’s already shown why this was terrible but the fact that BB is active all over site because he replaced into a metric Assload of games to help Mods out really makes me want you to eat copious Blasterfire with this attack Kdub.

--

I actually started suspecting Malee for having a Myra(?) Jade (

who is a bad guy

) avatar in pre-game but switched it after the game started like she was scum and was worried about having a bad guy for a picture.

This, as has already been mentioned by others, and your subsequent back-pedal at Post 527 dings my scumdar. People change avatars all the time on site. And the fact that Deathnote promised “powers” that turned out to be more annoying than anything is good reason for Malee to have abandoned the Theme Avatar.

Furthermore the bolded files right in the face of Mod’s “Film alignment does not equal Game Alignment” rule. Remind me – did you suspect BB for breadcrumbing Yoda? This will be on the Midterm Quiz.

--

@MoI: I have no idea what you're talking about as far as a slip goes. I didn't in the first post and I didn't in my post and I still don't now.

I’ll explain it for the benefit of those who have missed it – both you and Peregrine have said something to the effect “How can we both be scum?”

It’s a slip for the same reason why attacking someone for having a scum-read on both yourself and someone else that you also have a scum-read on … it betrays the inside knowledge that we aren’t in a multi-scum game.

It’s Day 1. We’ve had no kills or flips to help distinguish the number of factions floating around. Why should a Town player say “How can we both be scum together” when from an objective standpoint you shouldn’t have any clue whether we have more than one scum faction?

Where did I call BB out with all these questions?

Are you saying the following from Post 437 isn’t ‘calling him out’ as possible scum?

Wait. You and your predecessor claimed one of the most powerful PRs in the game and you think there are other PRs more powerful than yours? You have no problem being NKed!? You go back and forth from being unkillable to being untargetable by force powers and blasters and back again. Before Peregrine weaseled a claim out of you I thought it was pretty obvious your slot was town, but now I have no idea because you just farmed it so hard.

Still, if Peregrine is scum as I expect he is, then I think you're just playing dumb not scum.

The bolded clearly leaves space in your read of BB for him to be scum if Peregrine isn’t.

So either you were calling him out in the above or you typed that paragraph for no significant reason other than fluff. Which is it?

The bolded also shows more of the slip mentality I was talking about above.

-So you attacked me for flip flopping, but as you say here town or scum can change stances, so you're attacking me for something town or scum can do.

No I’ve said that Town, with new information (aka flips and more Day of play), can certainly change their opinion. I’m saying that your changes are characteristic of scum who don’t have actual reads and are manufacturing theirs.

-All game you have had one set of reads and basically stuck to them, then you accuse me of flip flopping. I don't think I've seen you once this game change a read based on events, it's almost like you're avoiding it.

Well you haven’t been looking closely then. I’ve revoked my Town read on both ooba and Andy for behavior that for them indicates possible scum alignment.

But let me ask – what ‘events’ are you talking about that warrant a significant read change on my scum reads? Please be specific.

5) Syndrome vs. MoI: I give Syndrome some major credit on this attack. I think his points are good and its interesting that this has not been commented on at all since he posted it.

I’d like you to specifically state which points you found good and why.

Wrath’s Post 529 is another example of IIoA. He made 7 points. Points 1, 3, 4, and 7 specifically do not address actual alignment reads Wrath got from the ‘events’. Simply say things that aren’t alignment relevant (aka PlayerX is useless.).

Point 2 is further repeating he thinks Nero is scum.
Point 5 is further repeating he thinks I’m scum

6 is fence-sitting on Andy.

UNVOTE: Peregrine
VOTE: Wrath

--

@MOI , i might have missed it, but where exactly did Andy ping some bad juju for you?

He’s barely active. Andy HATES being scum and in the past he’s been pretty easy to read – a very active Andy is a Town Andy. He’s going to blame LOL for his low levels and AFFC showed he could be fairly passive as Town. I don’t think he’s scum but I don’t think he’s obv-Town at this stage.

--

Iecerint has trouble getting excited about this game. Whenever Iecerint thinks about posting, Iecerint discounts those feelings by the risk of PR violation and posts elsewhere.

So you are blaming your lack of content and posting on the Post Restriction you are claiming … how ever so quaint ….

[MagnaofIllusion]

Slandaar

- have you ever played a role like VT here before? I have. Town players are certainly more than capable of making a well informed decision after we see a flip. Heck, they might even get some help in the matter. You directing plan is stupid, Anti-Town and not going to happen.

[MagnaofIllusion]

-MoI is scum. However, I need to see a VC to be sure that me switching to him at this point will not result in my lynch.

I'll get to the rest of your post but this needs highlighted directly.

You are calling me scum but are worried whether voting for me will result in your lynch? If you were Town who seriously thought I was scum you wouldn't worry whether you pushing on me would result in votes to you. When you flipped Town there would be some consideration to your position (probably not much to be fair ... Towns in general are horrible about reviewing dead player's suspicions).

But this ... this is something else. You are worried about the end result of you voting me. Not a Town perspective. I can point to you any number of games where Town Magna has voted targets considered generally Town because I thought they were scum. Some of which directly or indirectly resulted in my death via lynch for it.

My vote stays.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, even i understood what WC was saying in that sentence...

So you understood that self-preservation is more important than actually voting for somone he thinks is scum based on his stance there?

[MagnaofIllusion]

1. Scumslip: Did you even read the last game you modded, in which I was town, where I continually pushed the assumption that we are against a single scum team, until proven otherwise? How the fuck can you call it a scumslip when someone says "Scumbuddies" Day 1. That's the most bogus thing I've ever seen. Are you really telling me that we should be playing under the assumption that there multiple scum teams? That's bullshit. You play to the standard until proven otherwise.

No I’m saying you, as Town, shouldn’t be playing under ANY assumptions Day 1. Like assuming there is only 1 scum-team. Yet you harped on the “we can’t be buddies” angle more strongly than makes sense. Hell scum bus and you know this since you keep saying you have to ‘check my meta’ (which I notice you haven’t actually done, or at least no evidence you did it exists in thread). So why would you and Peregrine’s ‘suspicion’ of each other mean anything to anyone pre-flips? On top of your other play your ‘Why can’t we be buddies” dings my scum-dar as possible inside information slipping out.

2. Questioning BB: Yeah, his panic claim was suspicious. You ever heard of Rhetorical Questions? There's a good example. Now that that's cleared up let's look at your accusations. You said, I left room for BB to be scum in my wording:

"Still, if Peregrine is scum as I expect he is, then I think you're just playing dumb not scum."

Damn straight I did. Do you know he isn't scum? The intended meaning of that statement is pretty clear, I think Peregrine is scum and that probably means BB isn't. Oh wait MoI, we might be playing multiball right? So me making associative assumptions are scumslips right?

Yes, I have heard of Rhetoric Questions. They don’t serve any purpose for Scum-hunting. Why would you flood that post commenting with BB with what is equivalanetly fluff?

I don’t think he’s scum. I’ve yet to see anything that indicates it to me in his play. Of course ANYONE can be scum and barring Masons or other roles there is no such thing as 100% certainty. The issue I have is that you are going out of your way to say “I could be wrong”. If your were uncertain as Town you could have said “I’ve got no clue on BB at this point …” and waited for the relational flip of Peregrine to hit.

So you said town with new information can change their opinion, but when I change my opinion its manufactured. How do you differentiate between manufactured and uniformed townie reads?

How do I differentiate? It’s called looking for scum. I see scum intent in your posts both pre and post crash. Do you not understand I think you are scum at this stage?

4. Flip flopping vs. Tunneling: So you're saying you flip flopped on Ooba and Andy? You must be scum. As far as important events, read the posts, people have and have not contributed in differing amounts. I'm not going to go through the thread and point out every single post I think might have some significance. The fact is that I don't see you getting a scum read on someone and then realizing, "Oh hey, they might actually be town".

Once scum forever scum in your book and I can tell you the scum motivation in that pretty easily.

Oh, so you can’t provide me with anything to point to that is obvious that I should have noticed and said “Hey, Wrath is not scum” as a result of. That’s what I’m asking for.

My Town-read on Andy and ooba changed because they have failed to continue playing to their Town-meta this game.

The bolded is a complete lie and trying to sell it as fact is Strawmanning.

5. Syndrome Points against MoI:
-White-Knighting/Scumbuddy preservation on Malee Day 1 Pre-Crash
-Attacking Slandaar for lurking after Reboot when other players did the same or worse
-Making OBV Town calls with little to no reasoning
-The push on Iec who apparently has a debilitating posting restriction. Seriously, posting restrictions suck and one as serious as Iec's appears to be can easily suck out motivation to post.
-Halting of Blaster Strategy

Point 1 isn’t valid since, you know, we don’t have a flip on that slot. Cow flips scum and you can make that argument. Otherwise you are attributing scum play to something that doesn’t come from scum more than Town – Town are fully capable of seeing a crap attack and pointing it out.

Point 2 – SHOW ME WHERE OTHER PLAYERS DID NOT POST IN THIS THREAD OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME WHILE POSTING ELSEWHERE ON SITE. I’m tired of people claiming it happened when it hasn’t. Put up or shut up.

Point 3 – Not a scum tell. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Point 4 – Iec doesn’t have a ‘debilitating’ post restriction. The only impact it has is that he has to replace personal pro-nouns with his name. That’s something that is easily handled in a word processing program with the Replace feature. It also doesn’t prevent him from pointing out why OTHERS are scummy. Yet Iec is leaning on that crutch (if it even exists) to basically active lurk. It’s rather bullshit and I’m not going to let him pretend he can’t accompany a ‘list of scum’ with reasons simply for this ‘Post restriction’. So once again, not a scum-tell.

Point 5 – Pro-Town on every level.

So, yeah, what you like really isn’t indicative of scum play. It’s why you keep my vote.

MoI obviously is speaking out against Blaster Strategy, but it is only to "Appear Townie" because he doesn't really mean it. How many times has he included, "PEW PEW PEW PEW" in his posts. This is subtle influencing on blaster strategies. While publicly speaking against it, he is in fact trying to control or guide blaster shots with those comments.

Oh look – Strawmanning on the highest order. Having a systematic, organized Blaster-strategy is not Pro-Town. I’ll already linked you one game highlighting why.

But here you are pretending my pointing out who I am considering shooting in the face at Night is ‘subtly’ influencing people. Bullshit. Nothing subtle about it. I’m not saying “ONLY THESE PEOPLE CAN BE SHOT”. That’s stupid and Anti-Town. I’m letting my suspicions be made clear.

6. 7 Point 529 Post: Since when does ever point need to include a alignment read. Why can I not just discuss current events with out fear of being called scum for it? Let's go with your accusation that Points 1, 3, 4, and 7 are non-important (I'll address that further), you agree that point 2 and 5 do reflect reads of mine. Two reads in one post!

At that point that's more content than Peregrine, Shadow, Nexus, Ooba, Midnight and Iec

combined had contributed over the previous couple of days.

Why are you discussing fluff that isn’t scum-hunting (which you pretty much cop to in this response) if you are Town? No reason. If you had just posted 2 and 5 then I could see that as honest scum-hunting. Instread you pad your posts with stuff that says to me “Look at me I’m Pro-Town providing lots and lots of content” when the content is well over 50% not relevant to scum-hunting.

The bolded is interesting Cognitive Dissoance specifically in regards to Iec – you’ve been waving the “Poor Iec” flag around saying “Lay off” yet here you are trying to say you are Town for superior content “TO IEC”. DOES NOT COMPUTE!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Had to break up my post due to 500, more posts incoming ...


I’ll be LA after 4pm EDT today for weekend family duties so I’ll have my vote positioned where it is going to be at deadline by that point.

--

I wanted to get votes but didnt expect so many

Well perhaps this says your play is not a Obv-Town as you expect. You probably need to adjust your expectations.

--

3. I say that at some point, we are going to have to lynch BB. How is this a non-important comment? Do you disagree MoI?

Nope, I disagree wholeheartedly. You saying “we are going to have to lynch him simply for his claim” makes no sense. BB only needs to be considered for lynchingif Town is approaching a hypothetical LYLO situation or if he plays scummy before then. Why would you lynch him if he looks Town and we lynch / kill scum rapidly?

4. Peregrine continually being worhtless furthers my belief he is scum, so go ahead a scratch this from your "No alignment Reads list" and put it in the Reads category. So chalk another misrep up to our misrep leader, MoI!

Being worthless isn’t a scum-tell. DERP.

7. This is me saying we should blaster the content lite as we are more likely to get information from lynching active posters. If anything it should get the lighter posters to be more active and we save ourselves the trouble of lynching lurkers. How is this a non-important comment? Do you disagree MoI?

Players with Blasters should choose to shoot who they think are the best targets based on the flips that have occurred. Period.

Be that a lurker who looks scummy or a scummy looking active player.

Now to address, my "fence sit" on Andy. So I saw some scummy things and some townie things, this game is hard and I'm not blessed with MoI's god-given gift to be certain a player is either town or scum. I find that this type of gift is enlightened when the player already knows who is town and who is scum.

Empty rhetoric. Your play is scummy. Sorry that offends your delicate sensabilities.

--

You have 2 top scumreads, one has a wagon, one doesn't. You have a wagon on yourself as well. Deadline is in 12hrs or so...if a no lynch occurs, top votes gets lynched...
try to lynch the scumread with a wagon? or try and lead a lynch your scumread without?

MoI doesn’t worry about his only life and concentrates on pushing his scum-reads not worrying about whether pushing will result in a back-lash on himself.

If Wrath felt that Peregrine was really scummy he'd be focusing his attention on him. Instead he's more worried about responding to me. If my suggestions were as obv-bad as he seems to be trying to assert he shouldn't be using 100% of his energy trying to show why.

--

Fine, I just wanted your clear stance on this. Scum get caught through blown fakeclaims fairly often though. I strongly disagree that this is a town tell.

Town also get lynched when people claim they ‘botched’ their claims also. I’ll like to know where you get your statistical evidence that it happens to scum more than Town.

So I’m calling you on this. Show me one other example in a Non-Marathon game of scum getting caught with a ‘blown’ fake-claim Day 1 after crumbing heavily Day 1.

I’ll be waiting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1.

It's not your case on him later on that I have a problem with, it's the fact that you pushed THIS PARTICULAR POINT extremely hard.

Yes you did post an actual case on him based on more evidence SEVERAL DAYS LATER, and that was well after you realized nobody would sheep you based on what you posted before.
You also don't seem to have any problem with SD or andrius avoiding the thread, meaning you're being selective in the way you're handing out your scumreads. My best guess? You didn't like the way Slandaar was getting suspicious of you and this is the only thing you could think of to try and discredit him and look like you're scumhunting.

The bolded is backtracking. You said my case on him was pretty much bullshit. Now it’s not that the case was bad it was just a simple point. If you think I would be worried about Slandaar being suspicious of me you probably have to do a little more reading of games …

2. You've yet to see the logical explanation beyond the logical explanation that he's already given you? What exactly do you think is illogical about it?

Well I was trying to give Slandaar the benefit of the doubt and not suggest he was a Derp. Clearly he’s Town so that was a bad move on my part.

3. You know as well as I do that it's impossible for me to do that. But to me they're just as guilty of "avoiding the thread" as Slandaar was. Now tell me why you never commented on their absense or accused them of being scum for being too stupid to type mafiascum.net into the address bar. What is your official policy on lurkers?

This is an epic level strawman. Congrats.

1. If you can’t show that Shadow and Andrius were exhibiting behavior that I was pointing out as scummy (posting on site in multiple places over a period of 5+ days while not posting in thread here) why do you keep suggesting my behavior doesn’t align? Either show that Andrius and Shadow were posting on site but avoiding this thread for an extended period or stop trying to suggest their behavior was equivalent.

The issue isn’t the not posting. Had Slandaar simply not posted for 5 days after the thread opened back up I would not have thought thing 1 about it. It was the specifically not posting here while posting elsewhere on site that is the issue.

2. Again … I’ve checked on others who are absent. Shadow and Andrius (also ooba, why don’t you mention him perchance?) were not posting on site when they were not posting here. Pretty simple process.

2) I just meant that when the new thread was reopened, all votes were erased and

pretty much everyone was posting like they were clueless and forgot about what's going on.

Why would scum be afraid of posting when they could easily use this opportunity of a confused town to cause chaos or give themselves a better first impression? What exactly do you think was Slandaar afraid of?

I very much so suggest that the bolded isn’t accurate at all. I certainly didn’t lose my ‘suspicions’ and others felt the same.

I can show you many examples of players who were suspected (which Slandaar was, the archives clearly show multiple players voting or engaging with him) avoiding threads while posting elsewhere on site and being scum. Your suggestion that it doesn’t happen is laughable.

No, you have not explained anything at all. You have said some generic blanket statements but nothing concrete. If it is so obvious you should be able to point out exactly which posts have these hidden town-tells that everybody except you keeps missing. You should also be able to explain why they are town tells so that people will understand and agree not to lynch said townsperson. This is being a good townie 101.

This makes me chuckle. Shadow is obv-Town for

A. Having thought process that echoed my own in the original thread (similar reads and suspicions). I’m Town. When I see someone thinking along similar lines to me I think odds are great they are also Town since they are approaching things from a Town perspective.
B. Playing to Town-Shadow meta from multiple games I’ve shared with him (Andy’s Olympus Mafia and Back to the Future Mafia being best examples).

You don’t think that’s ‘good Town’ enough? Not my problem. The whole ‘You should share so Town doesn’t mislynch them’ also is funny. Shadow is under zero pressure. I’m busy hunting scum not worrying about someone under no pressure being lynched.

YOU were the one who suggested this. Or do you not remember page 6 of the archives? When Slandaar attacked Malee for postng a list of names with no reasons why they are scum you lashed at Slandaar. You say that Malee was posting content, but Iec is posting non content. Tell me, how is what Iec posted any different from what Malee posted? Why is he accused of being scum for it and why is Malee patted on the back? Hypocrisy, like I said earlier.

Fucking bullshit. Malee posted multiple posts with her insight into people’s early play reads from that. That’s far and away different than Iecerint simply listing 4 players with NOTHING AT ALL ELSE IN THE POST.

The fact that you are trying to draw an Apples to Apples comparision here is scummy as fuck.

I understand what you were trying to say, but I find the wording of it suspicious. You essentially are saying there are only two options:

It’s a theoretical discussion used to show that ‘Town Directing of Vigs is BAD BAD BAD”.

Did you read the link in question? Where I as Town had the exact same argument with people and where directing the Vig led no scum Deaths?

The fact that you mentioned goons in particular is highly suspect to me, when nothing at all in the OP suggests it.

I’m still waiting for that link to a Large Theme game that doesn’t have at least one Mafia Goon. Until I see it I’m going to continue to think that you made a terrible planned attack that you are trying to slowly extricate yourself from.

I'll just have to point you to Post 561 where slandaar explains it a lot more ellegantly than I could. If Mafia get blasters then we're screwed since they can concentrate their shots in one place.

Slandaar may be Town but he’s wrong. We can feel free to disagree but I’ve got every occasion I’ve ever seen of directing Power-roles early on backing me up.

In summary
1) MoI thinks my post is fluff
2) MoI is trying to discredit my attack on him by calling me scum, as well as "a spoiled 13 year old child"
3) MoI has not made an effort to defend his actions other than tactics like 1) and 2)
4) MoI is scum.

Well let’s see in response –

1. It was fluff.
2. I’m using the exact same tactics as you? So your own insulting tone was Town? Cognitive Dissonance away!
3. Clearly incorrect.
4. Lulz. No.

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW

For the record I think the explanations given are bad. I think blaster talk should be treated just as seriously as lynching during the day.

I think comparing it to a vig kill is misleading.

Tomorrow we should probably put more serious thought into it and have everyone discuss it rather than just casually mentioning it in passing.

Bolded – No, that’s exactly what it is … a Group Vig kill held in the vast majority (if not 100%) by Town's control. Any direction of the kill only helps scum to shape the discussion. End of story.

What about it? I'm going to assume you linked to the wrong post because I don't think there's anything to comment on.

Because it shows your lack of concern with Anxiety both –

1. Giving Peregrine a Town reads with no-explanation.
2. Suggesting that a single vote on Andrius was ‘pressure’

In your ‘case’ (and I use the term loosly) on my you attacked me for not giving reasons for my Town read on Shadow and for suggesting Slandaar who was suspected by a least three people was under pressure.

So you don’t blink at Anxiety for not giving reasons for his Town read but just called me obv-scum for the exact same offense.

And he’s suggesting that a single vote on someone constitutes viable pressure which you clearly disagree with.

It’s like you don’t honestly think those things are scum-tells but thought you could make them stick to me as such.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI scum would not really surprise Iecerint, but Iecerint understands where Slandaar/WrathC are coming from on giving him a little bit of benefit of the doubt.

Likewise I would not be surprised at all that you were scum faking a post restriction to avoid having to scum-hunt. But future days and Force-Powers I’m sure can sort this out worse comes to worse.

Peregrine appears scummy to me, but the ease of the lynch makes me feel very wary, so Iecerint is voting elsewhere.

I’d like you to elaborate on how you can find any lynch ‘easy’ given that no-one looks to have gotten anywhere near even L-3 today up until the deadline push?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI can you flail some more please?

Classic scum response - when you can't actually make an argument just call responses flailing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Haven't really got to read this weekend but a quick glance over pages indicates Peregrine is likely the only viable lynch.

UNVOTE: Wrath
VOTE: Peregrine

No lynch Day 1 is terrible ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Syndrome was obvtown btw, so shame on you townies who blastered him.

That was me. Going at the person who can direct all the Blasterfire probably wasn't a good move.

VOTE: WrathChild

Hey look. Multiscum. He knew the being linked to someone (with all his "How Can We Be Partners" whining) who could flip scum and not be his partner was a bad thing.

I'd also vote Andy at this stage ...

Will re-read later.

MOD - I'll be LA from 4pm EDT today until Monday for my usual weekend family duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Dr or Nexus.

Nope. Sorry, regardless if you are confirmed Town I'm not mindlessly sheeping you just because of your status.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And you do need to explain the SD read now

or you will be lynched for it.

Nope. Feel free to waste your time posturing. Clearly by the swath of votes for a variety of persons since the thread opened you aren't the Alpha Thread leader you hope to be.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let's play a guessing game.

1. Guess who KNEW there were two scum teams before Day 2?
2. Guess who KNEW SD was on a second scum team as opposed to an SK?

Lulz. This makes my Day. You spent Day 1 screaming “I can’t possibly be scum with Player X” (and that is true since Peregrine was Town) but now want to play the “MoI had inside information” game.

As is stands looking at the flips as mentioned by BBMolla based on the flips Shadow was very likely a Serial Killer. I’ll be frank that I just scanned the flips, saw two non-Town colors, and voted.

The fact that your wagon exploded as it did today and your terrible logic above does probably mean you are just typical terrible Wrath and not scum Wrath.

UNVOTE: Wrath
VOTE: Andy

Like ooba he’s playing to his scum meta and the fact that he actively has signed up for Team Mafia (as much as you can at this stage) means any excuse that he’s not interested in Mafia due to LOL doesn’t hold water. So can have my vote until I get a chance to re-read. Odds are strong that ooba’s partners are hidden in his Town reads and his scum read on Wrath doesn’t strike me as bussing from memory.

I’ll want to re-read ooba Monday when I have actual time.

And yes, I’m specifically not bothering to answer Slaandar’s question in this post. How cheeky of me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In looking at Slandaar's post - I have to laugh.

I'm specifically claiming a Vig ability - I can direct Blaster shots at night to a limited degree (which I'm not disclosing). You want to make an argument that I'm scum with that ability? Knock yourself out. Otherwise I'll just ignore you like I do other confirmed Town VIs.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Slandaar

– Why aren’t you voting me? Aren’t you supposed to be ‘punishing’ me for ignoring your questions as confirmed Town? Aren’t I number 1 on your scum list? If you are going to make threats at least follow through with them …

Anxiety gets some scum points for Post 794 from me. And Post 829 also makes him a good lynch IMO. And his attack on Cow at Post 859 pings me a scum on a gut level.

Shmugen gets some scum-points for the minor fishing in Post 798 and Post 809 is a pretty clear “fake Town concern” post. Post 844 coming on the heels of his own fish at 798 is scummy. And Post 846 screams scum for reasons I will not elaborate on currently.

Iec continues to lightly support the notion I am scum without actually doing anything to commit to that position via vote. He’s likely scum.

Based on my current reads Briz also gets a scum read for Post 838. ShottyJr jump is opportunistic, he shows signs that he knows Wrath will be a bad flip with both his ShottyJr and Split reads (and those are the reasons he thinks they are scum shows foreknowledge of his flip), and his fence-sitting on me waiting for ‘general opinion’ to shift is scummy.

--

And now I get to ShottyJr’s claim. The ‘Immune to Force-Powers’ part of the claim is pretty important IMO regardless of his alignment when considered in conjuction with BB’s claim.

If both are Town then odds strongly favor (as does the General Grevious flip) that Jedi comprise a significant portion of the remaining scum. Not all I'm sure (given the Count Dooku flip) but a significant portion.

I very much doubt both ShottyJr and BB are scum together so a scum flip from one more or less confirms the other as Town.

I don’t think I’ll be supporting a ShottyJr lynch at this juncture.

--

Wraith should have been the days1 lynch. He's prolly scum.

SD voted me for voting Iece so he might be his buddy.

lets lynch scum Shmugen, Slan.

vote:Shmugen

So let’s see. In this post we get the following from Nero –

1. WrathChild should have been yesterday’s lynch. He’s probably scum.
2. Iecering is probably a Shadow buddy (althought evidence actually says he is a Serial Killer so this is a point in your favor in trying to link Shadow to someone)
3. Vote for Shmugen based solely on sheeping Slandaar.

Any reason you are buddying up to Slandaar so strongly?

--

Does anyone think ooba left his vote on WC in an attempt to distance from a buddy?

Doubt it … ooba’s scum meta is to defend buddies not bus. See Back To the Future Mafia as a recent example.

--

Explain please. This makes it sound like you killed syndrome specifically because he thought you were scum. Why not WC instead? You were on him far more than you were on syndrome.

You don’t Vig easy lynch candidates. Wrathchild was exactly that – Town Peregrine was a direct counter-wagon to him. You can see from the immediate wagon on him today that he was primed for a follow-up lynch.

Syndrome swooped in and made his ‘case’ on me after Slandaar became Mod confirmed Town. Aside from the dubious merits of his case is smelled to me very much of scum looking to capitalize on Slandaars’ newly anointed status, buddy up to him by going after one of his biggest detractors, and finally pushing a wagon close to deadline that had no chance to actually go anywhere.

For good measure we have other elements I’ll not discuss and the fact that I would pick up a Town read (Anxiety - his “MoI is on to something about Sydrome” post) and further distinguish some very good links (those who said “Hmmm Syndrome’s case has merit” but hung back from acting on it).

I'm not ready to declare shotgun as guaranteed scum yet, but his play so far is baffling. No player is seriously this dumb.

Don’t commit to this as concrete. I’ve seen ShottyJr’s play in other games.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Summary of current scum reads –

Andrius
Anxiety
Shmugen
Iec
Briz

@MOD – Can we get a VoteCount so I can see where my vote would best be served? Thanks!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lynches I oppose: (Town read - don't see these changing)
18. Iecerint
20. Slandaar

Lynches I won't support today: (Town read but some might change depending on flips)
1. MagnaofIllusion
2. Kdub
17. ShadowDancer

4. SleepyKrew Malee
- Decent town vibes from Malee. SK not providing content is a bit distressing but sticking to original read.
3. PeregrineV
- Same scumlist as mine and voted both of them (WC\Fennin). Didn't look like bussing votes.

Lynches I'd rather not have:
14. Nero Cain
- Despite the misunderstanding about the chainsaw, has been consistent in his views during the game. We dont agree on some scum reads (SK,Slan) but overall posting appears protown.
16. brizingre1idanyboy Kise
- Town vibes from Kise early on. Also like brizingre's scum\town list.
9. Nexus
- Pure gut; reminds me of his play in Test of Faith Mafia. (where he was town)

Here is ooba’s list of reads from Post 323. Odds are overwhelming in favor of him having at least 1 scum-buddy (and likely more) in these categories.

Thus the pool of scum based on ooba are – Iecerint, Kdub, BB, Nero, Briz, Nexus

Keep this in mind Long-term.

[MagnaofIllusion]

SD isnt an SK read his bah post

Magna do you want me to vote you?

Yes, dead Serial Killer Shadow would never WIFOM for the fun of fucking over Town

Again - why aren't you voting your top Scum read at this stage?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now SD was an SK? I thought he was on a second scum team? Which one is it?

Probably a Serial Killer. If you were bothering to read and engage your brain you would have noticed that my initial "multi-scum' comment was based on a quick glance at the flips (seeing multiple colors). Upon reading it when I had more time I noticed that Shadow was specifically "He was also a scummy (only one scummy) person." which indicates he was a Serial Killer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So based on my top scum reads from Post 891 and the vote-count I need to move my vote to

UNVOTE: Andrius
VOTE: Iecerint

The only one of my scum reads that actually currently has a vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have been modkilled for saying something like that before

I think BB will be also

You cant say you are scum without being modkilled because otherwise it conftowns you as scum are not allowed to play against win con which is what it is, therefore anyone who says they are scum even joking has to be modkilled.

Unless there is something in the rule-set that specifically bans claiming scum you probably should spend less time making pointless posts like this and more time actually trying to lead Town.

Junk posts like this only give everyone more reason to ignore you.

--

Not necessarily, Magna. Take the (only one scummy) comment and compare it to the Ooba flip, which describes him as 'scummy scummy'. What I took away from that is the (only one scummy) comment was to differentiate between the two of them with more than just colors, not that SD was on his own.

Of course you think this. Scum with ooba have every reason to make it believed that Shadow wasn’t a Serial Killer so as to allow them to ‘scum-hunt’ for his partners and avoid hunting for their own.

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@MOI-not buddying Slan.

You aren’t?

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Cow’s vote on BB is really stretching …

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Don't like this explanation.

Well bully for that. Unless you want to take up a MD discussion this is just a philosophy debate about how Mafia roles should be played.

Nope, syndrome made his case on you before Slandaar claimed. That makes all of these reasons false except for the last one.

Yes, I did check back after you said this and you are correct …

That doesn’t change the motivation for someone as scum (who knows that Slandaar and I aren’t scum unless you want to argue that Shadow’s flip indicates Mutli-scum not SK) to buddy up to one in attacking the other to exacerbate the focus on two players who aren’t scum. Playing into a conflict between two high profile Town playes is totes Scum behavior.

If you don’t buy these explanations why are you willing to give me more time? That’s the part of your post that is blatantly off. You’ve made all these points suggesting my explanations are lies (which isn’t Town) and yet are unwilling to push on me. That’s not Town behavior as opposed to scum behavior who KNOWS lynching me is going to be a long, hard fight that probably ends up back-firing on at least 1 scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Slaandar I've explained my read many times. Your failure to read isn't my issue.

He saw your case on Malee for the bullshit it was. I saw the exact same thing. You yourself have said you were purposefully playing 'Anti-Town'. You just don't understand the difference between scummy and Anti-Town.

And I don't think you understand the concept of buddying ...

At this point I'd ask you to do something useful but I know it's not going to happen. Back to ignoring you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why is it you dont pester Nexus or Dr or any of these other useless people?

Here's a question - which of the three of you is confirmed Town?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Shmugen’s latest posts where he consistently goes out of his way to ‘affirm’ his Town status speaks of a level of worry about his survival that I find interesting.

--

Sure, but I feel strongly about this. I think scum are more likely to joke about being scum.

Anecdotally I’d say that my experience says 180 degrees the opposite – far more often than not I see Town (bad Town, but Town all the same) making jokes about being scum.

--

Anyone else feel like MoI is buddying me?

Lulz. Really? I’d actually have said the opposite since you were all “MoI I love you” when I was busy fighting off the rather stupid momentum towards your lynch yesterday.

--

So tell me why you are pestering conf town and not scumbags who have posted nothing?

Heavy lies the Crown dear boy. You’ve become confirmed Town. Your responsibility is at this stage to do more, not less, based on that status. Don’t like it? Tough luck buddy. Them’s the breaks. And by more I mean effective driving of lynches and scum-hunting. Not more as in flitting around the thread posting random posts about whatever strikes your fancy at the moment.

--

Several factors. First, I had a slight town read on you yesterday. Second, your explanation for the kill, though dubious, isn't a smoking gun. Finally, your ability is basically proven, and your future actions with that ability can potentially go a long way determining your alignment, both by analyzing the setup balance and whether you use it in a pro-town manner.

So you’ve spent a significant portion of today stating your ‘suspicion’ that you never intended to move on in the first place? How is that Pro-Town behavior at all? If you are Town you’d have been better served pursuing players you actually think are scum and want to lynch. As it stands it just looks like you were plugging your ‘suspicions’ into place to make sure you were positioned to move in my direction as opposed to actually scum-hunting.

--

Kdub vs BBmolla looks to be townvtown

moar nexus votes plz

Oh look … the Zang tell out of one of my top 5 scum suspects who happens to be actively lurking. Nice.

--

Like I said before, as long as you don't attack MoI, you should be fine. That being said, I will repeat we should be lynching people that will post and Blastering people who don't. Blaster fire is a perfect solution to cull lurkers. When we can actually interact with a player during the lynching process we are left with much more information than if we lynch a lurker a blaster a suspicious player. That's why what MoI did last night is inexcusable for town in my book. I think MoI is a good enough player to know this and hence my suspicion of him being scum.

Your opinion on my use of what is effectively a Vig really doesn’t matter much. I’ll be frank – your stance that I’m Mafia / Serial Killer who shot Syndrome and then came right out and claimed it under zero pressure today is pretty preposterous and stupid.

Syndrome was hardly the paragon of ‘active players’ you are wanting to suggest. He pretty much weighed in on only 1 player – me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Glad you agree your point was lulz-worthy BB.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And yet you constantly steal the crown for yourself.

From the “Useless Commment” Department ….

What is exactly the point of this comment? Are you criticzing me for scum-hunting? For being active? What is the point of this comment?

general tells are very meh in my book. I don't like the idea of a townvtown that has been perpetuating since day one; I don't see the scum motivation but maybe you might get too hung up on applying a general tell to a specific situation. Yes I am active lurking, because I have other games that I am playing/modding that are currently a higher priority.

1. I’m hardly shocked that you find a general tell that possibly incriminates you meh.
2. You don’t see the scum motivation to grab ‘Town Cred’ by calling conflict between Town players that?
3. Thanks for confirming that Shadow was indeed a Serial Killer if you flip scum. Because in multi-scum you’d have no reason to assume everyone not aligned with you is Town.
4. So your other games are just convienantly ‘more important’?

[MagnaofIllusion]

My offer still stands - I will cast my vote among any of my current scum reads (Andrius, Anxiety, Shmugen, Iec, Briz) based on what would make the largest wagon among them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah Im the townleader round here Magna

No more undercutting me!

Townleaders aren't declared. They are made via actions.

So stop whining about it, actually lead by example and I might just stop busting your chops!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magnas tone reading abilities: 0

Lulz.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What changed from the "opportunistic scum" read that you had on me 5 pages ago? You made absolutely no comments and suddenly your read seems to be completely different.

I'll give you a hint ... it's because he actually doesn't have reads and is making it up since he's scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Shmugen’s Post 1001 reinforces my read on his slot.

--

it was a comment about your personality, you have been constantly undercutting slandaar and from what I can tell it is because you like to be the townleader. I am basically telling you to let slandaar do his own thing; while I may not agree with his dr vote he has been constantly pressuring people and your beratement will only serve to demoralize him.

So it was a comment that has no relevance to your read on me and isn’t helpful in determining my alignment. What is the purpose of posting it other than to fluff up your posts?

2. You don't see town motivation to stop a townvtown?

No, not really. If it is a Town versus Town conflict and enough people agree then it will sort itself out as neither side will gain traction on lynching the other. Again it certainly is something scum looking to buddy up to both sides might do.

And in the end Town mediating is much less useful than hunting scum IMO.

--

MOI - still trying to wrap my head around you...what was the purpose of coming out and claiming what you did about responsibilty on Syndrome? based on what you said, and if i'm guessing correctly, enough people wanted you dead to warrant a Syndrome kill.. and I doubt Slandaar had a blaster shot if he could ModConf himself...then we have the NK's...unless we have another Vig or a redirector who got very lucky, i don't eally see how there could be only 1 scum team.

Trying to translate this to understandable English is hurting my head and making me question sword’s alignment. Because I’ve seen his Town play and he’s very understandable and generally makes good conclusions. This is 180 degrees the opposite.

I’m also concerned by what I see as possible fishing for a Redirector / Busdriver at the end. Because a bus-drive that resulted in a scum shot being redirected from Slandaar to either ooba or Shadow would make sense to me.

--

MoI: Read on Nexus, Cow and Shotgun?

I have no real Nexus read. I probably should ISO him because I’d not have remember he’s in the game at this stage.

Cow is a general Town read based on Malee being a Town read and my theory regarding Force-users being a good number of the scum. His claim makes sense as Town and so far I have no reason to question it.

Shotgun is a VI or alt trying hard to be a VI. That’s all I will say so far but based on my previous posts I’ll not support a wagon on him today.

--

"significant portion", really? As if I haven't been pursuing others? Apparently you think it's suspicious to voice negative opinons of people even if I primarily want to lynch someone else today.

Yes, I’d say so. You really haven’t been doing much in driving a wagon on BB today. Lots of questions and ‘explain this to me’ but no real “This is why we wagon him” that’s effective Town pursuit.

And the rest of today’s ISO is questioning me and some weak interaction with Shmugen. Maybe my perception is clouded by the fact that I don’t see you are really going after scum via knowing I’m Town and my Town read on BB.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30 PM EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

VOTE: Split

I’ll be frank – Post 1010 and his whopping 16 posts in thread doesn’t sit well with me when he’s actively signing up for multiple other games instead of focusing his attention on this on.

--

Iec is still scum for basically active-lurking through the thread. Very much not Iec-Town behavior.

He’s probably going to have to eat Blaster at some point sooner or later since he’s nicely buddied up to Slandaar.

--

Your statement was that I spent a "significant portion" of today expressing suspicion of you when you weren't a top lynch candidate today. A glance at my iso today reveals that this obviously isn't true from a quantitative standpoint. If you were trying to argue that it is true from a qualitative standpoint (your suggestion that I'm not actually pursuing a BB wagon), well that goes directly against your assertion that I never intended to move on my suspicion of you.

As I mentioned – your pursuit of BB is what furthers my suspicions. Odds of him being scum are astronomically small especially since we had Shadow who was a Non-Blaster Non-Force killing Serial Killer in our midst. Very little reason for him to manufacture that claim which makes him a pretty big target to said SK. I don’t see you focusing on Scum with either of your two top ‘suspects’ today.

You aren’t in to top of my scum pool but I don’t see your play as very Town. I guess it’s a Burden of Proficiency thing – I expect better from you as I know you are good at this game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do your own legwork Slandaar. It's not hard - go to my profile and look at my threads.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI Shadow wasn't an SK.

And you know this how?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@BB

– a faked Bah post isn’t exactly something unheard of. That said I read the “only once scummy” line as saying he was the only member of his faction AKA a Serial Killer. Time will tell I suppose.

--

Magna I get the impression for you you do not wish to help me read you in anyway

Do you think this is protown?

You should get the impression that I’m not your secretary.

You’ve been calling me scum since you started your ‘Teehee’ little ‘Im going to play Anti-Town” crusade. I’m not really interested in doing pointless legwork (as in it is criminally easy to see all my threads) as opposed to finding scum.

What would games of mine as scum do for you if I found them myself for you? It would make no sense for you to say “Aha, he’s not playing like that here so he’s Town” since I’m the one doing the fetching. And if your read is not going to change why should I bother?

My impression of your play – you’ve wasted the potential of a confirmed Town slot in your spammy posts that really don’t bring anything to the table as far as demonstrating why people are scum.

Yup Nexus is lurking. So is Split. You ignore my reasons for voting him. Do you think I am incorrect in thinking a player who says “I’m so busy”, minimally posts here, and then goes and signs up for two NEW games isn’t scummy?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wait MoI. Are there two scum teams or was SD an SK?

Why do you keep pointlessly asking the same question over and over?

It’s been answered for you already.

No follow-up to your question about Nexus / Cow / Shotgun reads?

And what are YOUR reads on those players?

--

where does it say Shadow was non-blaster, non-force killer? Did I miss it?

I don’t know – did you put no effort into analyzing the Nightkills?

Syndrome was blastered. No-one else was. There is no way scum could stop every Blaster vote so unless you think I am lying about re-directing the blaters and that scum somehow protected the actual Town Blaster target via Doc then that kill is clearly accounted for.

So that leaves Ooba and Shadow. Shadow didn’t kill himself. Thus ooba’s death flavor most likely comes from Shadow (or his faction if you don’t think he’s a SK). I don’t think “fell in a hole” is a Force-based kill method. Do you?

--

Split’s Post 1035 is pure OMGUS. Happy with my vote as it stands.

It seems to me that MoI was implying that he suddenly thought ooba was town because of meta reasons after thinking he was scum for meta reasons.

Or the correct interpretation is that I was questioning to see if you had played with ooba before. Since if you had any experience with both Town and Scum ooba you would know easily what to look for.

What gets me is the constant referrals to meta instead of the actual content of ooba's posts. Contrast that with what he's said about other players, where he specifically addresses their content and posts, or lack thereof.

What gets you? The fact that he is easily able to be read on meta alone? Are you trying to assert that is it isn’t valid to determine someone’s alignment via meta if it is strong evidence? Please be clear about your assertion.

Bolding mine. MoI deliberately leaves his own name out of the list of "the pool of scum." While still relying on his "meta" read of ooba. Which was either proven wrong, or stretched to fit MoI's purposes because he's ooba's scumbuddy. In other words, MoI directs other players to "note" a list of names that he subtly left his own name off of.

Speaking of stetching …

1. How was my meta read on ooba (calling him scummy for lack of activity) proven wrong? That’s clearly an untrue assertion on your part.
2. Is your assessment I should include myself on a list of scum? That’s comically stupid. I know I’m Town. I’m not going to scum-hunt myself.

--

Not exactly, your scumhunting was unreasonably biased, you clearly did not care what I said, you were not scumhunting you were pushing mislynches.

Bullshit.

I want to check something, If you do not wish me to check said thing, my read wont change therefore its in your interests as both scum and town to give me links. The only way my read on you will change at this point is via meta.

1. How are you unable to check it yourself. Are you incapable of using the features I directed to you on your own?
2. I don’t give a crap about your read. Is that not clear? Keep it if you want. Your Mod-confirmed status doesn’t mean I’m going to bother ‘sucking up’ to you. That’s what scum will be doing. You actually are reminding me a bit of Fate here – scum will certainly want to keep you alive as long as you are pointed in the wrong direction as your Mod-confirmed status will allow you to push mislynches more effectively than scum.

I want to understand why you voted Split over Nexus, why not vote Nexus the leading wagon, seems important to have an opinion on said player if you were town.

Um, whut? Did you not read the reason I have for my Split vote?

--

can everyone explain their hascow town read to me? (and without the use of Malee was town so has is town)

Why again can’t a Town read on Malee be a valid reason for a Town read on Cow?

[MagnaofIllusion]

That Malee town read musta been pretty week since you threatened the slot with blasterfire. I don't see anything pro-town in Cow's posting and if you don't find anything pro-town perhaps you should re-examine your read.

Are you talking about Sleepy? Poking him to get action via Blaster fire in an effort to get 'effort' from his terrible-self is hardly expressing "suspicion".

Please indicate where I say I don't see Cow's play as Pro-Town again.

[MagnaofIllusion]

3 (RE: MoI): The reason I asked again is that I feel that the SD=SK thing is BS. Why is SD an SK and not Ooba? Why did you come in Day 2 so convinced there were two scum teams? Why did you spend a lot of Day 1 attacking people based on the idea that there were two scum teams? Why all of a sudden are you convinced one of the scums that were killed last night was an SK? Also, please explain why an SK would WIFOM the town in a bah post.

Can you provide your reasons why Shadow as SK is bullshit? Just saying that isn’t good enough Wrath – you need reasons.

I didn’t ‘come into Day 2 strongly thinking we had 2 scum teams’, I saw two non-Town colors when I skimmed the flips and voted accordingly. After others pointed out the differentiation between Shadow and Ooba’s flips I reviewed the Mod post and judged accordingly.

Please explain why a Serial Killer would NOT WIFOM to screw with Town.

Please explain how your behavior being so absolutely worried about being tied to a player deemed scummy doesn’t look like scum who knows we are in Multiscum before any flips are made.

4 (@MoI's #1059): I didn't have time to follow up on Friday, but the reason I asked for those reads was because they were suspicious in my book. I find it weird that you have no read on the day's vote leader. You vote split for lurking but not Nexus. You say Cow is town, Cow says you're town, noted. On that note it also bothers me that you are set-up speculating based on force powers which seems fruitless and pointless confusion. I do agree with you on Shotgun though. I've secretly put a sign on his back that says, "Blaster Me".

Why do you find it weird that I have no strong lead on the vote-leader who in my experience doesn’t have a meta of low activity only as scum? Nexus has contributed jack shit in most games I’ve seen him in, be he Town or scum. And I’ll be frank – part of the reason I’ve not been motivated to go after Nexus is Slandaar is pushing him so hard and I don’t think much of Slandaar’s scum-hunting.

--

Fair enough. Though I don't really see the point in trying to get effort from a slot that you feel is town.

Um, whut?

1. You have a Town read on a slot.
2. Said slot starts not contributing.
3. The player occupying that slot is NOT knowning for not contributing only as scum (aka it isn’t an alignment tell).
4. You prod said slot for content as more Town slots being active is a good thing for Town.

You don’t think this makes sense?

I don't think you've ever commented on Cow's play and I never said you said that. So I guess I'll ask you now.What do you think of Hascows play?

He’ll go on my ISO list after Nexus if I can get motivated. That said – his stance on BB’s joke about scum reads as pretty Town. If he was scum not wanting to make waves I doubt he goes boldly forward with a vote on BB based on the very weak reasoning he gave – that he feels ‘strongly’ that scum are more likely to call themselves scum than Town are.

[MagnaofIllusion]

but you have a town read and you're looking for scum. Other than his vote and potential night action I don't see why its important that he actively scumhunts and participates. Also if SK is not know to contribute as scum and therefore playing to his scum meta then why is he a town read or am I misreading #3?

If you don't understand the importance of Town players actively scum-hunting and not just voting I don't exactly know how to explain it to you.

You are misreading 3 clearly. SK is generally inactive regardless of alignment. So thus, unlike ooba / Andy, him lurking / derping it up is not an alignment tell and it is certainly worth the effort to get him to be active if possible.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh look, a bunch of "No, U" and "YUZ IS SKUMZ" rhetoric in reply to that case.

It's funny Split that you had no interest in me as 'suspect' in any other manner than an off-hand "I'd vote him" until I specifically call you scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dear Slandaar,

Your ability to understand what "No, I don't care" means and ability to actually use the God given features of MS are noted as completely non-existent. Please don't bother with your faux Tough Guy act ...

Magna

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dear Slandaar,

If you had a brain you could easily click the handy-dandy Wiki button in my profile, see my list of game (which is not 100% up to date since the Tiger Attack ate my most recent entries) and then easily compile a list to quickly reference yourself. If that would take you hours you are less intelligent than a chimp. My daughter could do that in 15 minutes and she's in the Second Grade.

Magna

[MagnaofIllusion]

Anxiety still continues to basically coast through the game. Prob-scum.

Also Iec so totally is also coasting scum.

I’m done dealing with Wrath. His love of circular questioning is more than I give a care about. Just remember my read on him is dumb-Town not scum.

--

@MOI-The only time I remember playing with SK he was town and pretty active. (190 posts in a day phase!!!)

And every game I’ve played with Sleepy he’s been a non-content providing slug and Town each time IRIC.

--

Magna is much more petulant this game than he was in MST3k. I've got this voice in my head saying that he may well be scum.

Oh so being petualant is a scum-tell?

--

so let's look at Ooba's death flavor...falling down a hole. So what you are proposing is that there is only a single scum group and Shadow (as SK Boba Fett) "pushed Ooba into a hole."

Yup, and it’s like the hole is the Sarlaac Pit from Return of the Jedi …

But no that makes no sense. Furthermore - what other 'Hole' makes any sense at all? Is it Jabba's Rancor pit? In that case shouldn't you be wanting to hang Shotgun. I'm very curious what other 'hole' makes sense as a kill flavor for a player.

--

Oh, I'm already voting for him. SOrry!

Why would you be sorry for voting someone you thougth was scum.

For the record – your fake VI play is wearing thin. I’ve done an ego-search on you. It doesn’t hold up. Trolling should be confined to F62.

--

Quite a blatant mischaracterization of my case. You must have done it on purpose since you proceeded to respond to my points.

What is there to respond to on this? You are basically saying “He’s mischaracterizing my case” which is more buzzword Bingo.

Did you not only suddenly take an interest in voting me and making said case AFTER I called you lurking scum? Yes or no? In fact you started out today crowing about your ‘brilliant read’ on ooba and how you should be sheeped. That’s classic “Town Cred Grab” from scum who bussed / distanced their partner.

So we have at best, a lie from you about your intentions in asking me about ooba's town meta. By your own words, you thought he was town at the time you asked me if I had played with him before. Further, your explicit use of "town ooba" instead of "Scum ooba" reinforces my belief that you are lying now.

I’m glad you put this on record. Once I eventually flip your “He’s lying about motivation” gets blown up and your reasoning will come under proper scrutiny.

But let’s address the your points – That I am ‘lying’ because I asked you a question while not having a scum read on ooba. Is it your suggestion that I can’t scum-hunt players independent of my read on other players? If the answer is No then how does my read on ooba matter to my trying to determine what I think about your slot? In fact a Town read on ooba (which I didn’t have by that point) would strengthen my reasoning for questioning you about your hunting.

My assertion is that none of your reads on ooba were genuine. You are ooba's scumbuddy, and gave meta reads on ooba while avoiding addressing the actual content of his posts. Your "read" of ooba changed as was convenient.

Oh how did my read change when it was ‘convienant’ if I am his scum-buddy? Are you suggesting I would know, as ooba’s scum-buddy, that he was about to be Nightkilled?

1. You're right in a way, it's hard to be proven wrong since you went the gamut of scum-town-null on ooba, all based on meta. I would call that being wrong, if you were town. Since you're scum, I'll just call it opportunistic.

Pure rhetoric. I’ll still be interested in how you frame it as opportunistic.

2. Instead of quoting ooba's reads, and noting what you know about his meta, you went the extra step of spelling it out for us while conveniently avoiding drawing attention to the fact that you should be a suspect as well. It's comically stupid that you thought it would go unnoticed.

This is so stupid I can’t even.

Are you seriously suggesting that hypo-zTown MoI should have pointed himself out a suspect despite suggesting he is Town? Is that your premise here?

Please defend how any alignment (and mine is Town) should justify listing themselves on a suspect list when they MUST be approaching the game from the standpoint (true or not) that they are Town. Town never includes themselves in a list of suspects as they KNOW THEIR OWN ALIGNMENT. Derp.

Can you feel that, Magna? I'm voting you sooo hard right now.

I’m glad … it will make your push look even worse when you are throwing down pointless fluff rhetoric like this!

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

No.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Iec couldn't be more scum.

Hey Iec - is this a Bastard game? Yes or No?

If your answer is 'No' the chances of the Mod explicitly telling us Slandaar is Town and lying to us is exactly 0%.

If your answer is 'Yes' please show your work.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You mean like the way you screamed OMGUS at my case before you then addresed it?

It was OMGUS. You only suddenly built said case ‘after’ I called you out as scummy for signing up for games while doing jack shit in thread.

And whammo – suddenly you are alive with activity. Strange how that came about, huh?

I was looking into links to ooba, and it was a happy coincidence that you provided your lazy, easily debunked case on me prior to reporting my findings.

How is my case ‘easily debunked’? You did sign up for multiple games while doing crap here. But let’s discuss your “I was looking for links and you suddenly made a case” angle.

Day opened on on Friday April 20th.

You posted your “IMMA BOSS SCUMHUNTER FOR CALLING OUT OOBA” on Friday April 20th. So you ostensibly were looking for ooba’s partners the day the thread opened.

I vote you for being active lurking scum on Friday April 27th. A full week later.

You suddenly have you case together the same day 8 hours later.

So your premise is that you had been building this miracle case on ooba for a full week with no sign of it appearing and suddenly when I call you out for active lurking I’m doing it do pre-empt your massive scum-hunting?

Lulz, no.

You've lied in your response:

Nope.jpg. Appealing to Repetition by saying something over and over doesn’t make it true. You’ve yet to show how I ‘lied’ that is anything other than you stating an opinion and not fact.

You clearly were implying you thought ooba was town at the point you questioned me

about playing with him before. In your very next post, you downgraded ooba from town to null.

The bolded is not correct. Anything else to support that statement other than “Split says so”?

What? That's not what i'm saying at all. When ooba didn't post, you called him scum. When he did, you "thought" he was town and didn't press him at all about your supposed meta read. When I brought up my case, you conveniently downgraded him to null. I.E. opportunistic

What exactly should be pressed on a meta read? I’d like examples. Should I link you to games where I played with ooba scum who was as low poster and games where I played with ooba Town who wasn’t? I need specifics about what you think makes this scummy.

You seem like a smart player, I simply refuse to believe that you are failing to grasp my point. You're defending in a way you probably hope will cause others to disreguard my case. Once more, as simple as I can make it:
1. ooba flips, you quote his reads post.
2. You note that you believe ooba's scum meta is to defend his scumbuddies.
3. You list those ooba thought was town, while conveniently failing to mention he thought you were town.
Step three is completely unneccessary if you are town. Provide the info, yes, but trying to lead the town into the conclusion you'd prefer them to have? Scummy.

Um you couldn’t be more wrong. And that makes more sense coming from scum than Town.

There is ZERO reason for a Town player to say “Hey, ooba defends his scum-buddies as scum” and then list possible buddies and include yourself. Sorry, that’s completely stupid. Your suggesting it was scummy completely fails. I would expect every player on that list, if they believed in said meta on ooba, to make their list the same except flipping out themselves (who they know 100% are Town) and placing me (since they do not know my alignment) back on said list.

That you keep saying that it is scummy for me to have done so is terrible.

Again with the dismissal of my case. Let the town decide if it's pointless fluff or if it has merit. Attempting to frame my case as nothing makes you look even scummier.

Oh, so you can reference my posts in any way you see fit but I’m not allowed to point out your posts that are not scum-hunting for Town? Um, no. Do not pass Go, get shot in the face!

And Magna, what's your case on me again?

Just want the town to know why you're compelled to leave your vote on me when you could be voting for someone who has a decent case on them.

Ding ding ding … the classic “you can’t vote me because I don’t have a fully formed case written about me” excuse. Again … nope.jpg.

What do you think about ShadowDancer's possible partners Cow and BB?

Do you not read the thread? First I think Shadow Dancer was a Serial Killer so trying to play the ‘Link players to him’ game is a great way to have people chasing their tails looking for scum that don’t actually exist.

I’ve called BB Town repeatedly. In my response to Wrath I said I had a Town read on Cow’s slot mostly from Malee and lack of what I see as scum motivated play.

--

Being petulant is not a scumtell, Magna, but it is quite different than the town Magna I know.

So you are voting me for something you say isn’t a scum-tell. Nicely done!

--

I dunno why I'm getting suspected. I've done nothing wrong. Midnight Sorrow was like confirmed Town?
I'm not scum. Let's lynch Magna. Cuz he's scum. I know it.

Oh you’ve done nothing wrong. I see. Good to know.

You are suspected because you are (purposely in my opinion) playing severally Anti-Town. I’m stating for the record here you are a stunt Alt of an experienced player who is doing a DrShotty impression to make a point about VI play somehow. Which you clearly know.

--

In reading Nexus’s ISO (all post crash) –

Post 440 – His scum list is Wrath / BBMolla / Sword / Slandaar and Shmugen. The fact that he says he’s “unsure” of ooba dings my scumdar.

That’s pretty much all his content. 15 posts and a bit of observation here and there with mostly prod dodging.

I had to go to ooba’s “ASOFAI” Large Theme to look at Nexus Town there to see if this level of complete uselessness is in his Town meta. And I’m not seeing it.

Tuesday’s gone with the wind and no signs ofyour “scum-hunting”

Probably scum …

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is not worth discussing

Lets just lynch Magna

Yup. Don't put any effort or thought into the game ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

If you provide meta links, I will look through them, I will evaluate certain ideas, if you dont, I wont.
Its really that simple.

This is why you are putting no effort into the game.

Is that a sign of your eventual turn to the Darkside? [/off sarcasm]

Its amazing how you are coming to the conclusion Nexus is scum only when you are leading wagon and hes 2nd biggest.

Why not yesterday? or earlier today?

So coincidental...

Not that I disagree but the timing is just so scummy.

Further evidence that you are not making any effort to think.

So it’s scummy for me to conclude Nexus is probably scum but not bother voting him?

And I scum ‘not bussing’ him?

My mind it boggles seeing your posts.

Honestly I probably would have actually looked at him earlier if it had been anyone but you pushing for him as scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, you've been calling me not scum all game and now you've changed your mind? Fine. Hardly the most protown.

Can you link me to posts where I've said specifically you 'aren't scum'?

And for the record -

Drmyshotgun is not Drmyshottyisik. They are two separate players as I believe they've played together in a game and would have gotten site-banned for violating the "1 per game" site rule.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So it's confirmation bias. Noted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You've said all the time the reason you've been ignoring me is because of Slandaar's pushing on me, which is stupid, and ridiculously suspicious that you now decide to focus on me because the heat's been turned up.

None of this is pointing to where I called you Town ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

1 = most likely to have scumbuddies 5 = least likely

Um, no. Ooba's scum meta is to NOT BUS. He defends his scum-partners pretty strongly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m really bored now – can we just move along rather than puttering around like a bunch of retirees?

My scum reads in vaguely decending order – Iec, Andrius’s slot, Anxiety, Split, Shmugen, Nexus, Briz.

We don’t really get common enough Vote-Counts to really know what wagons are current but it looks like either Nexus or myself is the lynch for today. People not voting us probably need to either make a real strong push on their candidate dejur or pick your poison between us.

I’ll pretty much be prod dodging the rest of the Day until lynch. Sorry Deathnote but I have lost all interest in this game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from today at 4:30pm EDT until Monday AM for my usual weekend family duties.

Look at the completely fascinating lack of push by any of my scum-suspects (although Andrius’ slot gets a pass for being not in the game all day).

Scum is content to just let momentum for either myself or Nexus run out the clock. That makes me think that Nexus is probably Town. If he is scum at least one if not more of his buddies will easily be found in the players who facilitated the following shift (from Mod Vote-counts) –

MagnaofIllusion- WrathChild (L-8)
Nexus- Iecerint, 4nxi3ty, shmugen, BBmolla, Brizingre1 (L-4)

MagnaofIllusion- WrathChild, drmyshotgun, splitfarvle (L-6)
Nexus- Iecerint, shmugen, BBmolla, Brizingre1 (L-5)

MagnaofIllusion- WrathChild, drmyshotgun, splitfarvle, Slandaar, shmugen (L-4)
Nexus- Iecerint, BBmolla, Brizingre1 (L-6)

Again my suspects for scum are (removing Nexus for the moment based on the total lack of passion and activity in thread) – Iec, Andrius’s slot, Anxiety, Split, Shmugen, Briz (or his slot if he is replacing)

Anxiety, Shmugen, and Split have all either moved to me (Split) or away from Nexus.
Iec and Briz are parked on Nexus all day.
Andrius’s slot is V/LA.

The nice spread between these suspects reinforces my “Nexus and MoI” are both Town. Scum are just happily sitting back and letting the impending deadline force Town to wagon to ‘assure’ a lynch.

VOTE: Shmugen. I’ll happily wagon the most viable of my scum suspects at this point.

--

On a side note those players expressing that my Post 1155 was anti-Town / suspect / scummy without voting for me are also possible suspects. This group includes Kdub (at Post 1181). Very little reason to reinforce the wagon if you don’t want to actually commit a vote to it.

--

Post 1182 – This is the third refrain in Schmugen’s “I’ll get better” chorus. The first was his “Now I’ll discuss with people” and the second was “I don’t want to be Blastered tonight”. And yet Shmugen isn’t doing anything active to get better.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Post 1191 will be very important to analyzing this Day. Specifically the fact that at that point in time the vote count was –

BBmolla- Kdub, hasdgfas (L-7)
MagnaofIllusion- WrathChild, drmyshotgun, splitfarvle, Slandaar, shmugen, NeroCain (L-3)
Nexus- Iecerint, Brizingre1 (L-7)
shmugen- Nexus, MagnaofIllusion, 4nxi3ty, BBmolla (L-5)

Shmugen’s wagon had grown to within 2 of my own and forced him to claim Hated. After I flip it will greatly benefit Town to go back and look at the vote movements related to both of us … those who hopped on and off our wagons. If Shmugen is indeed scum very likely you will catch at least one of his partners after this critical juncture moving to me. Probably someone like Iec who had quietly been active lurking and keeping away from my wagon like the plague up until Shmugen really got momentum.

--

Iec think the argument against lynching MoI is that his blaster manipulations make him a less ideal early lynch, all things being equal. Of course, this doesn't apply if you don't think they're equal.

With the Hated claim, Shmugen looks like a good blaster target.c

Shmugen ever flips scum? Hang Iec. Not that you shouldn’t have already since he’s obv-scum.

--

Where is Magna to defend against all this? it is alot of heat and I would have thought he would say something by now.

And on the another note. I think I am in love with Slandaar your posts in combination with pictures bring tears of joy to my eyes.

Let’s see you replaced Andy didn’t you? Yup, probably scum.

1. Let’s buddy up to Slandaar, especially after your slot was one of the top 3 Slandaar haters Day 1. Scumtastic.
2. If you were reading the thread you would know I am LA on weekends. Nice positioning to make a jump to say “He’s scum avoiding the thread”.

I'll do a partial claim at this point in the form of a request, as I'll be somewhat away all night and don't want anyone surprised. I am hated, so kindly cap the votes on me to 7 if you want my fullclaim.

My question to you is … why did you not immediately claim Hated when you entered the game? As a Town aligned player that is the obvious correct move.

I’ll have to mull over what I think about this development. Normallly a Hated role is pretty much assured Town. The only exception is Mutliball, which I don’t believe this game to be.

After Post 1202 I really don’t know what to think. It has all the hallmarks of scum comfortable with his claim and not wanting to fuel my mislynch.

Vote stays.

--

OK, can someone please explain to me why players like Nexus and drmyshotgun can lurk and sheep wagons all day while providing no analysis, yet BB can do the same and get away with it?

Kdub this absolutely stinks. If you are Town I expect better. Shotgun has gotten attention because he is purposefully playing the VI-alt game not for lurking. This is also terrible since neither of the players you have indicated have actually flipped.

I’ll grant you that BB is more or less unreadable today but the push on him Day 1 was bad all the way around.

If the viable options today are Shmugen or MoI, I would prefer a Shmugen lynch. He is scummier, and I think Magna can potentially buy himself town credit depending on his ability and how he uses it tonight. I will switch to Shmugen in a couple days if things don't change.

And if Shmugen and I are both Town? Lynch Kdub immediately.

This could not be a more transparent play to do the following –

1. Keep his vote idled on a non-starter lynch all Day long. BB is not getting lynched and your play avoiding actively doing anything but staying glued to him is terrible.
2. Position himself to say “ I told you so” when I flip Town since natural momentum will push my lynch over Shmugen’s (or any other option).

Makes less sense if Shmugen is scum but if he's not? Hang him.

--

Slandaar gets his own little section at the bottom because I’m not doing scum-hunting here and more pointing out the massive holes in his play.

I am town and will never view Magna as town.

And that is your problem. I’ll drop a few facts on you, very similar to those you threw at me before you confirmed yourself.

1. I’m the second most active player in the game. Booyah. It’s funny that your “I’m active and Town” stance from Day 1 somehow doesn’t apply to me.
2. I’ll put it bluntly since you can’t actively disengage from your butthurt over my attacks on you – I’ve claimed a Vig role. One that is clearly supported by the Nightkill flavor (note how Syndrome was hit by ALL Blastar shots that Night). No-one has counter-claimed or even suggested my claim was bogus. You want to suggest I’m Mafia scum (as in aligned with ooba) who has the ability to co-opt the Town driven Blastar mechanic. Knock yourself out. But until you can cross that hurdle the fact that you are blithely ignoring that shows how poor (and I’m guessing personally driven) your ‘crusade’ is.

But I digress … I was busy showing how poor your thought processes were.

Magna cannot explain his SD read, is it a coincidence Magnas likely buddy Ooba (will get to in a sec) is on the team that kills SD? (this is an assumption but very likely)

First off you clearly are either incapable of reading or just hoping repeating things regarding the Shadow read. I’ve explained it multiple times. Shadow’s read on your terrible Malee attack (and it was terrible, no two ways about it) matched my read which is from a Town perspective. Plus his approach to this game was very reminiscent of both Olympus Mafia and Back to the Future Mafia. He was Town in both places.

But to further show your lack of logic – what exactly is my motivation, as hypothetical scum, to Nightkill the person I’ve been calling Town all Day long and who reciprocates that read? Hmmm? Especially since clearly the scum would have some idea that another faction (be it a Serial Killer or other scum) is out there based solely on their faction nuimbers. I’ll be waiting for something that makes a hint of sense. I don't expect it to come as it's probably the worst possible play for any scum faction to kill someone who

A. Professes a strong Town read on a member
B. Could be under serious fire after Day 1 pushing the confirmed Town (no matter how scummy he played until the Innocent Child halo).

Read the Magna -> Ooba interactions here. Magna unvotes me because of what ooba, says. But Magna based on his previous posts SHOULD suspect ooba. Why does Magna listen to ooba? Why does Magna TRUST SOMEONE HE SHOULD SUSPECT BASED ON HIS COMMENTS? it does not make sense from a town Magna perspective but a scum magna scum ooba? yep.

Really? It makes sense for scum Magna to listen to his patner and not keep pushing you, who were scummy as fuck? Especially given that Multi-scum theory people keep floating. Nope, makes no sense. But keep on with your blather.

All three of us, all three of the confirmed town in this game suspect Magna. This is not something to take lightly. This is fact. Magna is suspected BY THE TOWN.This is not some conspiracy theory, Magna is/was viewed as scum by every confirmed town in this game.

And of course that means that all three of you have terrible scum-hunting skills, or at least you do in regards to reading me.

I think its likely this save Magna wagon is a desperate attempt by scum. Nexus/BB/Magna all on one wagon? DO NOT WANT.

We must stand strong

The Magna Lynch must happen

I’m just dropping this here for post-game (I would say the dead thread but I think it will probably be awhile for you to get there since I doubt the remaining scum are threatened in the least).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Come on scum ... get busy pushing my mislynch through. It will be all the more obvious if you just lurk it out pretending to scum-hunt and let Town have a rush at Deadline. You might be able to salvage some Town cred (I'm lying totally right here ... you are screwed at this juncture).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Saying it will be a mislynch on your own lynch = Doesn't do much.

Stop pretending. Playing in an stunt alt is highly over-rated. Whoever you actually are you are probably better than that ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ths was never my stance. My point that went over your head was you are accusing the most active player in the game of lurking. Which as we can see is actually ridiculous.

Oh really? You didn’t correlate activity with Town before the crash? Let’s examine your response at Post 126 and 129 of the Archive in response to Malee …

Malee please view the activity overview

Now

post count thing was me saying I have posted more than most.

Malee is prob scum

Malee had just given you a ‘Null’ read and wanted more posts from you. Now you certainly were posting a lot just with no real content to this point (this is when you began your ridiculous Malee push).

And your reaction to a Null (not a Scum) read from Malee?

“I’ve posted more than most, you are scum”.

The only way you can make that conclusion is if you are asserting she should have given you a Town read for posting often (even with mostly fluff). Thus you are inherently asserting Activity – Town.

You can keep arguing if you want to but saying you only said this in regards to your brain-lock in being unable to be a big boy and recognize the thread was open for 5 days without a Prod to hold you hand then you would be lying.

Yep. If the blaster mechanic is towndriven, why is your role needed from the towns perspective? all those with blasters can make a decision on their own... isnt this what you were saying yesterday?
I honestly don't care about this though its a desperate argument, theres no reason your role has to be town (line above) so im not getting into setup spec now. Simple.

So you don’t want to get into set-up spec when it undermines your postion. Noted, got it.

You can’t provide a Scum motivation for immediately claiming my direction of all Blastar shots to Syndrome right at the start of the Day under no pressue. Case closed. Thanks for playing.

You say it was a town perspective, but to me, it was the scum perspective. Note, SD took that side, he was scum.

And it definitely was the scum perspective, its much easier for you as scum to come after me than agree and go after Malee... hey, this was one of my minor points on SD.

Point 1 – regardless if this is Multi-scum or Shadow was a Serial Killer he had reason to authentically scum-hunt the other scum faction during the Day. So your first point makes no sense.

Point 2 – Which is it? You keep talking out of both sides of your mouth on the issue of your Malee case.

Side A – It was honest scum-hunting.
Side B – It would be easier for scum to attack you than agree with your Malee case.

These two premises CANNOT co-exist.

If your stance is you were doing great scum-hunting work on Malee then Town should agree with you (since you are Town) and have wanted to lynch her.

Now if it was easier for scum to attack your case on her than support it the case must be so fundamentally not good that it looked like you were scum for doing so.

So which is it … keep in mind if you believe Multi-scum you have to believe that scum would be doing their utmost to look out for the other side.

So in the end you want it both ways and you can’t have it as such.

There is no reason 1 scum faction would know there is/very likely is an SK.
To show you were right on one of your reads and discredit mine. To get rid of someone who ooba seemed to think was a PR. Its someone you can't push day 2 if he flips town. You restore some credit to your reads.

If you believe these you really don’t understand good Scum play. The only scum who kill people to "make their reads look good" are stupid scum.

I don't believe you can think the lurker argument was worth pushing so hard and for so long. I told you the only way is to show me meta so I could decide if you do tunnel this ridiculously as scum or not, but you didn't produce which is massively antitown.

You are scum.

What you believe is irrelevant. My mistake was giving you credit for not being a complete derp and thinking you would not need hand-holding like a child to find the thread again. I will

NEVER

make that mistake again.

No, I’m not. But thanks for just repeating things over and over.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because I wanted to Wrath. You have an issue with that?

As to my V/LA announcements - I make them universally across the board in all my games. You have a reason to suggest I not consistently do so that is alignment relevant? Also given that Sean actually did exactly as you suggested (where is MoI?) this weekend I think it is warranted.

Also Wrath - why not comment about the substance of my posting as opposed to secondary issues like this that are not scum-hunting related?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I may have to be replaced ... Pming Deathnote now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’ll keep posting until Deathnote makes a decision about replacement or not.

Oh Wrath why didn’t you re-appear to respond to my post and give your other thoughts after you caught up on work?

--

@Magna: I didn't claim hated immediately for two reasons. One, I'd never been hated before and figured mentioning it when a wagon cropped up would be good enough and Two, I didn't want scum to get the wrong impression. Hated VT seems a silly thing in a large theme with no VTs.

This makes no sense. You thought that you would be making yourself a ‘target’ by claiming Hated since a Hated VT makes no sense? A Hated player with a Blastar (Greedo perchance) makes all the sense in the world. I despise the soft-claim here and factually scum really do not like Nightkilling Hated Townies. I would know … I survive to almost endgame as one in Olympus Mafia in a game with no VTs.

Furthermore if you believe this is Multiscum the normal “Hated players are Town” site meta no longer applies.

--

My vote is on BB, but I have been consistent in my suspicion of Shmugen and expressed my willingness to vote him. It's not like people are going to just look at my vote and suddenly forget that I had other suspects.

And this response doesn’t say a single thing to suggest my comments regarding your alignment if Shmugen and I are both Town.

You are sitting with your vote parked non-productively on BB. He’s not getting lynched today. You say you have other ‘suspects’ but are not actually voting them.

Scum who thinks we are both possible Town is happy to not move their vote until the last moment.

1. If I get wagonned and lynched before deadline you’ve idled your vote nicely and kept your hands clean. Inaction is scum beneficial. You are doing nothing to move the day forward.
2. If you actually do vote Shmugen at deadline and he flips Town you can say “Well, I preferred a BB lynch but had to make sure we got a lynch on someone” and obsolved yourself of much of the responsibility for your vote.

What is your case on Shmugen BTW. Your own words, if you please.

--

I agree with this, and further, I think he's your other buddy. Andrius was the other player I thought might be linked to you due to your mentioning his lurkiness above other lurkers as you did with ooba.

Lulz.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So you are a Town Watcher after we've already had a Town Tracker Enabler flip?

And you are a straightforward Watcher with no twists or turns to your role?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tell me, Nero, which part of my plan do you find scummier? The part where I volunteer for death later in the game, say Day 3 or 4, or the part where I try not to waste a town lynch and force scum to get rid of the threat?

Shmugen let's be real here ... you 'volunteering' to be a lynch later in the game isn't helpful if you want to take the stance that you are mislynch.

If you are Town who will be 'wasting' a lynch at any point in the game where you are lynched. And frankly with two non-Town players down you should not be really all that worried about bargaining when you should die but more worried about lynching scum.

Especially with a Blastar mechanic that means you can get offed at any point.

UNVOTE:

I need to consider the implications of your claim and whether two Town Soft Information roles make sense given what we have.

I'm actually staying in the game per my discussion with Deathnote for the record.

MOD - Please disclose the specific information we discussed. Thanks!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Whelp I can't hang out any longer waiting for Deathnote.

More explanation after he posts.

VOTE: Iecerint

He's still scum and at this juncture I have to put my vote with one of the scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Iec thinks it is likely that Shmugen is lying and trying to draw protective roles with his "Neutral Watch on Slandaar" claim.

Iec is trying to balance that with his feeling about lynching claimed investigative roles.

Iec fence-sits like a champ and continues to do no scum-hunting at all while active lurking like a champ.

KILL IEC WITH FIRE!!!!

Deadline is coming … more Iec votes please!!!!

--

I have an issue that you felt it necessary to unnecessarily announce VLAs. The content is fine, but there is an issue with throwing your hands up in the air and yelling "EFF THIS!" and then coming back as if it never happened.

Well see I have an issue with focusing on things that you can’t even suggest are alignment important as opposed to actual scum-hunting.

Well given how much stupidity Slandaar was throwing in thread I couldn’t stay away. Sue me. Do you think it makes me more likely to be scum? If not why mention it?

--

I want this expanded on. Because from the turn of events and Mod response I am thinking that you knew there were two scum teams all along, but for some reason you wanted to flip back to implying that it was Scum Team and SK.

(Magnas scum because he knew there were 2 scum teams then was like lol no its only 1 to hide this fact)

See this is why I find you both to be terrible players.

So you both are suggesting the following –

1. Scum MoI fakes a stance that Shadow was a Serial Killer.
2. Scum MoI needs to reverse this stance so he feigns replacing out.
3. Scum MoI gets the Mod to confirm two Scum factions as a defense for said shift even though that would absolutely be interfering with the game.

See this line of thought I so stupid I can’t even begin to understand how you both think it’s possible.

The reason for my possible replacement and the Mod’s statement –

I came across information out of thread that confirmed indeed we have two scum factions in this game in a way that didn’t divulge any other information. I can’t detail it more clearly than that.

I consulted Deathnote on his opinion as I believed this was information I should not have confirmation of based on the Mod’s manner of flipping scum after Night 1. He indicated that he did not intend for it to be unclear and after discussion about what information I had come across he indicated that he didn’t think my replacement was warranted.

Thus he made the post to clarify that the Mafia faction status publicly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna I think... is... town

Sigh

No no ... don't back off now. You are so close to appeasing your personal ego in pushing through my mislynch. Scum crosskilled for us very nicely so you can not feel too bad about doing it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

No how about we lynch scum Iecerint. Kthanks!

Seriously. Look at his ISO. Tell me it isn't "I've buddied up to confirmed Town and am going to active lurk through the game taking no solid stances at all".

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. And specifically this weekend with a charity golf Scramble on Saturday to help with and Mother’s Day on Sunday my posting is likely to be restricted to late nights if at all.

What are your thoughts on smugen?

I get a bad feeling from his posts that I haven't been able to put my finger on. Can't decide if he's scummy town or scum <-------7.5 on the wishy-washy scale I think.

Also, Oh. My. Gods. Every time I come across a post by my predecessor I want to go find my mommy and have her tell me everything will be okay. *shudders* I have a similar reaction to a good number so Slandaar's posts...for a different reason though.

While I don’t have much time I wanted to add two things here.

1. Shmugen’s claim is SUICIDE as scum in mutli-scum. The opposing team can’t even risk a scum Watcher living long term since he could effectively decimate them and get ‘Town cred’ at the same time. So even going on about it is pointless. See Clash of Kings Mafia for evidence of why this is true.

2. Tammy congratulations you have just hit on one of my most reliable personally kept scum-tells. Yes, the congratulations was sarcasm.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So we have approximately 4 hours or so to deadline.

The following players have posted since the last Mod Post and are not currently voting for a wagon that has a prayer in succeeding –

BBMolla, Tammy, Luckyjt, Split, LordChronos

Need to be put through a meat grinder. No reason to pussy-foot around this close to deadline as Town.

--

Okay to the stuff that actually matters. Are you suggesting the claim is possibly fake or because of the claim it's pointless to wonder about his alignment. I haven't had a chance to even see who claimed what yet.

Was it not perfectly clear from my post? Shmugen claimd Hated Watcher. A Watcher is a deathknell claim for scum at this early stage of the game. Stormtrooper is literally a 100 times better claim at this stage. Because we are in multiscum and a Watcher can fuck up scum’s day. So he can’t be left alive to possible have scum take advantage of his Hated status since can ruin their existence with a catch on them killing a Confirmed Town role (who also have to go ASAP).

And the fact that each faction is already down 1 player thanks to crosskilling only makes the danger greater …

--

I don't like the other wagons. Why would I vote for someone who I don't think is scum unless it's to avoid a no lynch?

Notice the empty Town stance. Hint there Scumfarvle … deadline is in hours.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well congratulations I guess ...

This game unfortunately was a train-wreck across the board. Town played pretty poorly as a whole, scum didn't do much better, the Tiger attack killed the continuity, and the mass amount of replacements really was a pain. The game was more or less lost for scum based on flavor which is never a satisfying way to get a victory.

Deathnote I really have to say I was surprised at the effort you put in here. Andrius sold you as a Mod to play under and really some of the flaws in your moderation (inconsistency in flips and updating, the whole "Fell in a hole / trap" mess-up, etc) really were not good.

I think this is the final game in my records that was part of the Tiger Attack. Finally I can put that part of Mafiascum history behind us.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Actually I do have an important question - why were iDany and Foxace force-replaced?

[MagnaofIllusion]

They were caught communicating outside of this thread about the game.

Ok thanks ... my blacklist of iDanny stands ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey MoI,
Was this what you thought you needed to be replaced out for?

http://forums.station.sony.com/strategy ... c_id=78802

Nope.