WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Loudmouth Lee

[MrBuddyLee]

Can we be sure he has info? Perhaps Tamuz just found Mr. Flay's posting style scummy.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, I'm thinking mind control here. Definitely don't lynch Flay just yet.

[MrBuddyLee]

Killing a claimed cop isn't an action to be taken lightly. Everyone should read the history and state their specific reasons for offing him before placing a vote. Or unvoting him, for that matter.

[MrBuddyLee]

Why are there still votes on Flay?

[MrBuddyLee]

1.) Karn1’s random vote was on Mariyta (who he has now claimed an innocent investigation on, making this, if true, a very badly placed random vote)

Karn, I'd like to hear your explanation for that random vote.

[MrBuddyLee]

meh, I think it's dicey to lynch a claimed confirmable power role. I find karn's random vote bizarre because you'd think a cop wouldn't do that to someone he cleared. can't make up my mind on that situation, so i'm erring on the side of caution and asking questions.

I weighed in on both big wagons today, asked good questions and I'm not sure who I want to vote for yet. It should probably go on someone who's still on Flay, because I think the "evidence" against Flay has been deemed way questionable if not outright false.

[MrBuddyLee]

meh, I think it's dicey to lynch a claimed confirmable power role. I find karn's random vote bizarre because you'd think a cop wouldn't do that to someone he cleared. can't make up my mind on that situation, so i'm erring on the side of caution and asking questions.

He is in no way confirmable. You're next on my list - I've got role information that says he's lying, his claim is bogus but there is mafia strategy behind it, he had 8 votes on him to make him claim what he did to create WIFOM. This is as good a first day lynch as you can get.

*edited before posting* Let me rephrase that. You didn't read my post carefully. His power role claim could have been to some extent confirmed or disproven by having him ask questions we decided on and seeing if the answers rang true. Irrelevant now, cause he's toast.

You may have mistaken my "confirmable" for "confirmed". If so, do I still get to be on your little list?

[MrBuddyLee]

I want to put something out there in case I get ganked one of these nights:

Not this past night but the night before, someone tried to put a collar around my neck but I broke free. I suspected yesterday that Tamuz had been a victim of some kind of mind-control collar, but I guess that wasn't the case. If anyone else had the collar incident happen to them, we might want them to speak up now.

[MrBuddyLee]

I am somewhat confused by this post. Night 1 (i.e. the

same

Night Tamuz would have theoretically been affected) someone tried to put a collar on you but you "broke free" (how nice for you). So naturally you think that Tamuz is being controlled because...you think the mad collar person can put 2 collars on different people every Night? You think after failing on you he got to try someone else? You think someone might have been collared this night, but also broke free? If the person didn't break free, do you think they are going to be able to tell us they have a collar on right now?

What makes today a better time to have told us this than yesterday?

Basically you have told us that someone is out there trying to put collars on people (that would be Seashan, right? And the collars presumably would prevent use of the power and/or give someone control over another player? Am I remembering the storyline corrently). This is potentially useful information, but I really don't understand your timing here.

Your excessive "skepticism" is noted.

I hinted at the possibility of mind control day one. I figured there could be more than one collar-slapper-onner, yeah, wasn't sure. And yes, they failed to get it around my neck. I brought it up today because I thought there was a chance someone else would confirm a similar event. And because if I get ganked eventually, at least you'll know something about this phenomenon and know who got hit with it N1. If no one pipes up, there may be someone wearing a collar in our midst, which is important to consider. If it happens to me again and I actually get collared, I'll probably be hungry from the exertion of fighting the attacker.

[MrBuddyLee]

What would you like to know? I've explained much of what I've done already but I'll be happy to give it another go.

PJ, first of all, why I spoke out against the FlayWagon--I read from Tamuz's posts that he was being forced to vote Flay all day. I would think that alone would be a good reason to halt the wagon that started because of Tamuz's words in the first place. That plus my knowledge of a collar-wielding madman added up to wariness. Entirely logical, no?

Second, if someone tried to snap a collar around your neck, what would your first thought be? Mine was that someone had tried to bring me into a cult and failed, and my second thought was that maybe there was a role with mind control powers over one person a day based on the application of a collar. I read on the web and found examples of similar concepts in the WoT series and figured it was a reasonable explanation for the strange occurrence.

Third, if you check out Mormon II mini, you'll see that I'm aware that cult can't recruit scum. If I was scum, I wouldn't have announced this result. My first thought was that there's a % chance of failure in the control.

Fourth, the KarnWagon? I'm hesitant to kill claimed power roles this early if they can be confirmed or if the evidence is shaky. I did note your observation about Karn's random vote on Mariyta and reread his post there, and I thought it at least plausible that if he was a cop that he was using humor to indicate that Mariyta was his innocent result for the night.

Random votes are stupid IMO. That being said

Random Vote: Mariyta

So after he died, if he turned up cop we might be able to look back and say "oh yeah, he said a vote on Mariyta was stupid, she must have been his innocent result for the night." Didn't turn out that way though.

I brought up this info now because it's something you all know now about this game that you didn't before I spoke up, and I didn't see anyone else coming forward. If there's a cult, now you know. You wouldn't know about it now or potentially any time soon if I had held the info and gotten nightkilled.

And you're voting me. I find it curious that some of you'd choose to try to start a bandwagon on the bearer of info rather than question them first. Awfully cavalier...

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh, PJ, and this was a sarcastic dig at Tamuz for his overzealous pursuit of me in another game:

Can we be sure he has info? Perhaps Tamuz just found Mr. Flay's posting style scummy.

As Spamwise noted:

Considering he'd only posted once, I doubt that.

[MrBuddyLee]

PJ, back to your post from a while back, I know it looks unusual in retrospect that I didn't vote Karn and encouraged people not to lynch Flay. I can only ask that you view my actions based on information available at the time. I think those actions were reasonable if not correct.

Pooky, you've been awfully quiet this game, day one you voted and that's about it. How are we supposed to say you're pro-town with that kind of behavior? Four other people besides Pooky stayed on the FlayWagon to the end of day one even though it was evident there might be something weird about it. Regardless of how it turned out, their decisions are notable.

Coron doesn't typically move his vote a lot, so I dunno about him.
Karn1, well that made sense for him to stay there.
Tamuz says he didn't have a choice.
Broomhead, this twilight post made me curious about you, considering you were still on the flaywagon:

thats it, so tell us karn, are you scum or did we mess up?

Not sure you're evil, but something there made me wary. Something to note for later days.

[MrBuddyLee]

Mariyta, your vote on armlx is poorly founded, according to your statements. You're doing it because Tamuz pointed at him, and because Tamuz successfully pointed at another scum. But Tamuz has told us he got the Flay info from an unnamed source, and that he doesn't have any more such info. I think it's fair to infer his suspicion of armlx is based on his reading of armlx's scant postings.

I'm not saying you're wrong to vote armlx, but the way you did it made you look fishy--like you were shirking responsibility for your vote and relying too heavily on Tamuz. And you haven't amended your statements in light of current facts.

[MrBuddyLee]

I could see an irresponsible vig hitting Albert after yesterday's discussion.

I kinda made up my mind yesterday that Axelrod and Dbird acted strange when grilling me. I realize what I had to say was reasonably doubtable, but some of the things they said didn't ring quite true with me. That plus Dbird's expressed reasons for not voting Mariyta looked odd made him look more suspicious than Axel. So I reread overnight and I'm comfortable starting out with a

vote: Channel Delibird.

[MrBuddyLee]

Care to elaborate, Cyan? I'd like to know why you find me suspicious.

[MrBuddyLee]

You weren't involved in lynching Karn nor Mariyta

Demonstrably false. I posted against her. Voting is not the only way to contribute, and I've chosen my words carefully in order to comment on several people the past few days.

You even tried to attack people for not believing Karn's 'Super Cop' claim.

I didn't attack them--I gave one mild reason in each direction and said I couldn't make up my mind on the situation. I do recall stating that killing a confirmable claimed role should be considered carefully before action, which is not really an attack.

You avidly defended Mr. Flay, who...also turned out to be scum. From what it looks like, you more or less fabricated a theory about mind control.

My avid defense of Flay was actually correctly noting that Tamuz's vote was coerced.

Lastly, you came out of nowhere to attack ChannelDelibird this morning, giving no reason except, apparently, a general case of 'OMGUS'.

I'm in the unique position of having had an unusual night experience, telling the town for its benefit, and viewing the reactions. I found Axelrod's and Delibird's reactions suspect for very different reasons. I think it's reasonable for you to find my story suspicious, but it's true, and if your posts don't allow for that possibility or ask unusual questions about my experience, I get scummy vibes from you.

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't remember Tamuz' saying that his vote was coerced..I remember people speculating that and him not confirming, and him going out of his way to say that whomever is playing Rand didn't coerce his vote(and to be fair, the only real speculation at that point was that Rand had coerced his vote..I took his denying that as denying that his vote was coerced period).

Being who I am
My actions had some pre-plan
given by the mod, oh great Satan

I must have lead a wagon
In my service to the great Dragon
But for now I'm as good as a drunk without a flagon.

Why I choose to wagon Flay
That I would rather not tell today
And no more information from that source in my hand does stay

I know you think I am under control
But that is no more true than I have the bowl
But know I am now in free control of my soul

The one thing I had to do
Was lead that bandwagon through
And all my actions are true blue

It reads like his role forced him to lead a wagon and not move his vote all day, and someone told him Flay was a good target.

You're right, you did criticize Mariyta..and then not vote her. I didn't mention that on purpose, because I wanted to see if you'd use it as a defense. To me, the fact that you were against her, yet, wouldn't vote her, only makes you look more scummy, and the fact that you used this line of defense, only moreso.

For future reference, please feel free to hold my words against me, not just my voting pattern.

[MrBuddyLee]

who kept trying to get people to vote Albert the Great?

PJ, the silent speaker and just lol:

they may have just agreed on something from the book that could create a possibility, though I agree, it doesn't look good to agree with scum.

mFoS: Albert the Great

[MrBuddyLee]

Is there any reason we're voting for themanhimself other than the fact that Fritzler feels like it?

Curious thing to say when you could sort by poster and figure it out yourself. I understand that's what you eventually ended up doing, but you did it under coercion and that gets you way less than half credit.

You're still more than half scummy in my eyes. A read of all your posts shows a tendency to be inordinately influenced by Tamuz's posts. That's a behavior I attribute to scum wanting the cover of a safe entity for their actions. I'm not saying Tamuz is scummy, I'm saying that you're putting way too much weight into his posts, and you're not a newb so I find that entirely scummy. You're taking cover.

Actually, I just read over themanhimself's posts and it didn't take long because there were only two. I know he replaced but there was a 10-day gap in between them. I suppose there is some justification on the wagon (I hadn't thought there was any reason because I hadn't noticed themanhimself at all during the game).

This rings hollow.

[MrBuddyLee]

Most of your suspicions or clearnings of others have come with reason: Tamuz said so. I find that fishy.

[MrBuddyLee]

Not sure I'm feeling themanhimself hate just yet. Two unspectacular posts does not a scum make.

Spam's 100% certain Yos is scum--tough to go against that. But I will, for now.

[MrBuddyLee]

That's good. I still don't get the TMH thing though.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sometimes it's best not to doubt Jelly. I usually have reasons for what I do. My reasons this time happened to be Fritzler. No more asky-questions.

I'm not asking you to explain, I just don't see it yet is all. Anyhow, we already have one 100% guarantee to deal with today.

[MrBuddyLee]

FOS: Cyan.

I've found things I didn't like in like 75% of your posts. And it's always different--over the top, sketchy logic, shaky voting reason. There are plenty of others to deal with first, but I'm certain I'm not the only person who's noticed that you stand out.

[MrBuddyLee]

Are we gonna let Yos off the hook for that claim? Spam, does his claim jive with your 100% certainty he's scum?

[MrBuddyLee]

PJ didn't have any points against you, and he hopped from TMH to Yos to you today. Maybe he earns green stamps for visiting cool wagons.

I think you're scum for reasons I stated earlier. If the Yos wagon doesn't pan out, I think you're the best bet for today.

[MrBuddyLee]

ps, that was in response to:

Could you tell me exactly what the points against me are, please? You seem very vehement and it'd be nice if I had something to defend myself against.

[MrBuddyLee]

Guys, the person who started the Yos train hopped off it.

As we approach this deadline, I suggest you hop off Yos and MMOD and onto the ChannelDBird express, as it looks like the best chance of catching scum today.

[MrBuddyLee]

Tamuz,

I'll admit the DBird lynch is one based less on pure evidence than on gut feeling, but I honestly think his post history is the scummiest of those who remain. I think he's fairly likely to turn up dirty.

I do think your Cyan vote is a decent place to be as well, though it's clear you're voting on gut as well. I still don't know what to make of the Yos and mmod wagons from earlier today.

[MrBuddyLee]

Couple observations:

1) Pooky's been way too inactive. But his voting pattern shows him to be pro-town.

2) broomhead's been replaced in other games but appears to be inactively included in this one. Absent for over two weeks, and before that I got a bad vibe from him, but not necessarily a scummy one. I think he should be prodded/replaced.

3) Channel DBird's been scummy. Another doctor? Claiming early, scattering suspicions? I'm not buying it.

4) What's up with Spamwise and the 100% thing?

[MrBuddyLee]

Yos, someone said they're 100% sure you're scum, and yet you're not voting for them. I find that unusual. Do you think they made an error in judgment, or that they're scum?

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Illumina

I also sent the mod a message about the TSS situation. No reply.

Logicticus was scummyish and absent--that character that was nightkilled is scum, right?

[MrBuddyLee]

I actually like Theory 2 alot, and Theory 1 to some extent. I'm still not sure about MBL, because I feel like he defended Flay, Karn, and Mariyta, and they all ended up being non-town(it's possible that Taim was actually the Vig, but, this seems unlikely to me). However, his immediate suspicion of CD yesterday, even if only for reasons that he knows, makes him seem more town to me. So..I'm not really sure there, but theories that support the 'someone tried to collar me' theory certainly help.

That makes him MORE suspicious, I'd say. He defended all the non-towns, and in an effort to look more town ratted out his mafia buddy.

You really only have two choices with regards to me and the collars. I was the first person to blab about them, so either I'm the collarer or I am telling the truth and a collaring failed on me. Well, actually there's a third possibility that the whole collaring hullabaloo is a ruse and mmod and I are both making stuff up about it. Post-post edit, a fourth possibility is that a collaring succeeded on me. The second choice is the truth, but I understand that you all can't know that for certain.

You're misrepresenting my behavior, mmod. I didn't defend Flay per se, I pointed out that Tamuz was coerced to keep his vote on Flay for day one and thus we should view that vote with a grain of salt. I defended Karn so much as to say we should be cautious about lynching a claimed power role. And I don't believe I ever defended Mariyta, I only cast suspicion upon her, which means you either misread something or just made some bullshit up to try and discredit me.

As for ChannelDBird, I read scummy insincerity in his actions and posts and decided he was the best lynch yesterday. I did the same with logicticus this weekend while reading the thread, and possibly illumina as well.

[MrBuddyLee]

Man, you masons are having all the fun in this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

I want to hear Spamwise's side of this tale before I vote. It's likely to differ substantially from Illumina's, but I'm pretty sure Yos is scum based on the events. The only other likely possibility is that both Illumina and Spam are scum, but if that's the case, they'd both get nailed if Yos turns up innocent, so their actions don't make sense in that light. More likely that one is scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

Including me, there are currently 4 people in the masonry.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to name them--can you please do that?

Illumina, why didn't you vote Yos yesterday? Why'd you let ChannelDBird die instead of pointing in any way whatsoever to the only person you knew for certain was scum?

Spamwise, is it safe to explain why you were 100% certain Yos was scum, and why you backed off of your vote for him?

I don't think the collars are a cult thing. As someone said, a cult that can't recruit many townies can't win, and I'm an example of a townie who couldn't be collared.

mmod, is it safe for you to explain how you know BJ died collared?

[MrBuddyLee]

Cause he's a nub. Are you suggesting that his character magically transformed from Alvarian into Merilille night one?

[MrBuddyLee]

good luck with the athletic christian ladies

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Yosarian

[MrBuddyLee]

I find it unlikely that Illumina would sacrifice herself just to get Yos kilt. Either:

1) She's mistaken, or
2) She's telling the truth about his role

She knows she'll likely get lynched tomorrow if Yos dies as Merilille. So Yos is prolly Alvarian. The evidence she got from TSS could hardly be explained away as ambiguous--Illumina has committed herself to this path.

So Yos is the right lynch for today. More info from Spam and possibly mmod would be useful as well. Keep in mind for tomorrow that Illumina could be a member of a second scum group if that can possibly fit the flavor, but her nameclaim makes that less likely so.

To Cyan, Fritz and others who continue to find me suspicious, I think your interpretations of the collar incident implicating me as scum are wrong.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: Yosarian

[MrBuddyLee]

I think it has to be a female-based collaring, which would explain why it failed on me. I'm a d00d. In the series it seems to be a one-to-one correspondence between collarer and collaree, and gives control to the collarer. Probably not a cult. Not sure if the collarer is good or evil.

[MrBuddyLee]

We don't really have a problem. We just lynch Yos, who both Illumina and Spam are certain is scum. Then we deal with their dispute tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

There's such a thing as keeping a summer game from losing momentum, too. I agree, more info is good, but not at the expense of team spirit.

[MrBuddyLee]

They both think Yos is scum. Thus we're offing Yos--we just want to hear Spam's story first.

At least, that's how I see it.

[MrBuddyLee]

I say we give him one more day and then we kill him.

[MrBuddyLee]

Mmmhmm, I'm certainly a better target than your mason partners who've graciously pointed you out as scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

I was surprised to see Spamwise hold off on Yosarian, and I came to suspect that Spamwise may be in league with him, which would explain why he inexplicably held off and why he was going after him in-thread in the first place. So I PM'd Spamwise last night asking for his reasoning and if Yos had revealed anything convincing in his defense (As a survival tactic, I insinuated that I considered the possibility of Spamwise being scum unlikely, and the probability of Yos being scum as incredibly high, in case Spamwise really was scum. That way, I may have been kept alive because Spamwise considered me to be in his pocket, if he were scum, and thus I'd live until today in order to reveal this). I got no reply from Spamwise, which makes me suspicious. While I suspect him, I'm not ultimately sure whether he's scum or not.

I'd like to see you two work this out in public before we move to night.

[MrBuddyLee]

More lies is good.

[MrBuddyLee]

Quick post before I head out: no, greyjoy's claim wasn't made in any joking context whatsoever, to my knowledge. Also, Spamwise, we still need to know why you decided to hold off on Yos yesterday.

I thought the general consensus was that Channel Delibird was the play for the day, so I held off.

unvote

Vote: Themanhimself

When I said I'm fairly sure that Yos is scum, I mean 100% sure that he is. But if themanhimself is a better play for today then that's cool.

Are we gonna let Yos off the hook for that claim? Spam, does his claim jive with your 100% certainty he's scum?

Yes. It's quite wierd I know, but we'll work it out.

unvote

Vote: Cyan

...

[MrBuddyLee]

Well that's an interesting change of tune.

[MrBuddyLee]

6. mystery meat of doom
7. Lordy - (replaces max)
8. petroleumjelly
9. Fritzler (replaces lml)
12. MrBuddyLee
13. Machiavellian-Mafia
14. Anonymities (replaces TheMan himself (replaces Ameliaslay)
15. armlx
20. Spamwise
22. Illumina
23. Ghyrt (replaces - broomhead )
25. Tamuz
28. Bascas

At least six scum dead. Probably not more than three left, likely less.

Spam and Illumina ratted out their mason partner. Tamuz has ratted out a scum or two. Do we have any other solid leads on alignments?

[MrBuddyLee]

I will look this up as well, but I'd like to hear it from you guys: what are the Ashaman killing methods?

[MrBuddyLee]

I think Tamuz is a good guy. I'm not convinced about anyone else particularly, though I'm leaning towards PJ and Ghyrt are ggs as well as Spam/Illumina.

[MrBuddyLee]

pj: an uncounterclaimed Rand is as close to a confirmed innocent as we can get. Have you really been so confident in your abilities that you saw a vig every night as the right plays? Why do you feel mmod's knowledge of your broomhead order clears him?

lordy/max, pretty much zero contribution. lordy has a rolename/safeclaim that will please us.
fritzler: claiming coolness with lordy. max kinda hinted they were a pair.

m-m: seems pro-town

armlx: can't tell

spam, illumina: mason lovers gettin along today

ghyrt, pj: likely ggs due to the Rand thing

Tamuz: pointed in good directions, seems to have inside knowledge

Bascas: terrible post history

Anonymities/themanhimself: terrible post history til yesterday. hinting at certain knowledge of priests in the game. Bold claim of provable townness.

vote: Lowell/Bascas

for a terrible post history including a pair of whoppers about AlberttheGreat.

fos: Skylink/armlx

Lowell and Skylink, what do you guys make of Fritzler and lordy?

[MrBuddyLee]

petroleum has claimed the protagonist of The Wheel of Time, Rand. He hasn't been counterclaimed.

[MrBuddyLee]

By the way, it's conceivable that Rand was given to PJ as a safe claim and that Rand's just not in this game at all. THAT would be an amazing twist, considering no one else was given a safeclaim. It's not terribly likely though, considering PJ's killed two people I was suspicious of as scum and has voted pretty well.

I think a massclaim might be a good idea at this point, and we should discuss whether investigative roles should look into PJ considering:

* he's killed every night
* confirming him will give us 100% confidence in his nightly vigs

[MrBuddyLee]

ps. Anonymities' roleclaim is credible.

[MrBuddyLee]

It seems like most people have some power or another, which will be difficult to fake multiple days of data for.

[MrBuddyLee]

Let's do it.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sure you don't want people to hold back certain night actions depending on the believability of the claim? If someone claims a main character and goes uncountered maybe we should hold releasing night actions til all have claimed. Less chance for constructed counterclaims that way.

[MrBuddyLee]

What's your character's name?

[MrBuddyLee]

yeah that's a pro-townish role. neeeext

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm Juilin Sandir, thief-catcher extraordinaire. I'm in a hotel lobby and will check back later after a tour of the bars of this shitty little town.

[MrBuddyLee]

Back Monday. Don't lynch Tamuz, Fritz, PJ, lordy, mmod, Lowell or M-M before I get back please.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm assuming that vigging a cop is thought of poorly, even amongst a bloodthirsty gang of vigilantes?

Please feel free to review my posts and see if they're consistent with a cop with, count em, a shitload of results. If need be I'll spell out my results for everyone, but there's always a chance that the current ambiguity is worth something.

Your calls, but if you lynch or vig me you're mentally-challenged.

ps. Back tomorrow from vacation and will be fully-active. Has there been another possible cop in this game, or did you really think a "thief catcher" was a good lynch?

[MrBuddyLee]

I haven't investigated you yet, Mr. PJ, because every time I thought you were just unscummy enough that an investigation on you would be a less-than-optimal choice. Turns out I'm rather glad I trusted my gut. As for why I hinted that a cop should investigate you, I didn't want anyone thinking I was a cop, and apparently it worked. Sadly, I'll probably be dead tomorrow morning.

Pooky: innocent
broomhead: I feel a reason to fear him but he has no evil in him (i assumed vig)
logicticus: scum
thesilentspeaker: i intended to follow the silent speaker but was instead taken by the hand and led to follow channeldelibird, who I indeed determined is foul scummy scum.
tamuz: innocent

That's by memory and I'm a few drinks down in a strange town. I was also grabbed night zero/one and attempted to be collared, as I've said, but the collaring failed.

Why would you think Juilin Sandir's a minor role? Do you still doubt my cop claim, Rand?

I think PJ's Rand. I am not 100% sure he's good guy, but the fact that broomhead's not investigated-evil makes me feel much better about PJ. I'll re-read when I get home tomorrow to determine where my vote belongs.

[MrBuddyLee]

Wait, did you actually go through my post history to see if what I'm claiming matches up with what I posted? I tried to hint at my results the whole way, and since I'm clearly a sane cop, all the results match up to reality. If you have doubts, I think the broomhead investigation would put those doubts to rest, seeing as how scumpartners of logicticus/dbird wouldn't have known on day two that broomhead was "to be feared".

So that makes me a good vig tonight beeecauuuse...

[MrBuddyLee]

That's all fine and dandy--maybe pick someone less useful to gut.

Does anyone need me to make my case for why I'm a cop? I'd like to be taken off the chopping block, kthx.

[MrBuddyLee]

PJ, I'm not thrilled about something: you were willing to suspect me based on the fact that I'm a fringe character. Yet you thought mmod was going to claim my character, and you've found mmod pro-townish for some time now. I understand that part of why you found him pro-townish was due to the information he bore, but your flip-flop on the plausibility of the Sandir role disturbs me. You even compared my claim to the false doctor claim earlier in the game, knowing full well that the likely real doc had already been killed when the fake doc claim arose. There was no counterclaiming cop and yet you put me at the top of your vig list. If it's not scummy play it's sloppy play.

Also, you say you've thought I was Matt since Day Two and yet you voted me on Day Two and FOSed me on Day Three. If you weren't Rand, I'd find that very, very dicey behavior.

There is always the slim possibility that our mod has given us a neutral or extremely dark character with a safeclaim of Rand, and if Skylink is scum but not the last one I think town should not consider Rand 100% cleared.

If it weren't for my investigations, I'd rattle off as possible scum:

Skylink
Anonymities
Lowell
Spamwise
Illumina
Tamuz


I think Fritzler and lordy's roles are believable. I think mmod pretty much has to be who he says he is, particularly seeing how ballsy such a false claim would have been before Tamuz claimed. I've found M-M's play to be pretty pro-town all game.

Ghyrt is not evil according to my investigation. Same with Tamuz. Ghyrt's innocence possibly but not necessarily implies PJ's innocence.

Iam al’Lan Mandragoran, Lord of the Seven Towers, Lord of the Lakes, and true Blade of Malkier. I am Morainnes warder, whilst I do not know her I can still defend her from attack.

Lowell, how are you not a power role and yet you can defend Pooky (Morraine) from attack and yet you didn't defend her from attack. Help me understand this please.

[MrBuddyLee]

When you originally claimed Juilin Sandir, on the other hand, you

did not

claim an ability, which led me to believe that you were either holding out to see what abilities

other

people would claim, or that you were a vanilla townie.

I said I was a "Thief-catcher" and I thought you of all people would pick up on that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Well, you didn't assume I was Matt or Tamuz was Thom or mmod was juilin then... you just thought it was likely, eh?

Your past "assumption-not-assumptions" have made you less likely to suspect other people even if you didn't assume anything.
After my nameclaim, for whatever reason, you plopped me atop your vig list. I just found it strange that you didn't offer my claim up the same luxury.

[MrBuddyLee]

PJ, it'd be reckless of me not to consider you as a possible scum. No one's confirmed in this game as far as I know, and fortunately we have at least one candidate for a confident lynch. But I'll be surprised if the mod hasn't thrown us a twist of any kind in this setup, and I'm on the lookout for it, as apparently are you.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'll add that as Rand you've had the confidence to try to direct this game to an unprecedented extent. I don't have a problem with the way it's going thus far, but I'm wary of giving any one player too much leeway. "Rand" is the type of claim that earns its bearer a cakewalk to endgame if we're not careful, and on the off-chance you're scum, I don't want to see you get off scot-free.

[MrBuddyLee]

We should agree on the vig as well, if we want one.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd get M-M's specific rolename before proposing further action.

[MrBuddyLee]

So PJ can't talk to his Ashaman but M-M can nightchat with his collared channeler. Curious.

[MrBuddyLee]

And now that I think on it: Ghyrt, does your role explicitly mention that you work for Rand Al'Thor? If so, that might be enough to get MBL to shut his big yap, because he is consistently heading in the wrong direction.

I'm thinking no-kill might be the way to go tonight, as Illumina mentioning that M-M did not want to kill last night checks the story out. Skylink could very well be the last scum for all we know anyways.

It's never the wrong direction to ask thoughtful questions, and I think I've been consistently helpful in this game.

I'm fine with a no-kill tonight. If Skylink's not our last scum then maybe we'll learn something from the flavor of any nightkill that occurs. Well, you all will, as I'll quite possibly be dead.

vote: Skylink

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh, and a guy like M-M couldn't collar more than one channeler at a time, right? I think collaring control is a 1-1 relationship.

[MrBuddyLee]

I got a "not malicious" (paraphrased) on M-M. I thought he had a good chance of turning up scum after I read this last night:

Damane ("leashed one") are women who can channel and are controlled by use of an a'dam. Women who can channel but who have not yet been made damane are called marath'damane

So technically the one who collars is NOT the marath'damane, the one who GETS collared is. Either our mod made a mistake or something weird is going on.

[MrBuddyLee]

That's the second player who disappeared from the list of players as if they'd never existed in the first place. We got no official word on tss's death other than a delayed appearance in the post #1 list.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, who'd ya collar?

[MrBuddyLee]

We need full claims today. Someone was roleblocked and there was no kill, right?

Also, does Anonymities take one person into his hut, preventing them from using a night action and protecting them at the same time? If that's the case, I'm surprised he, Rand or myself are not dead this morning, as we are seemingly the top three threats to scum. Can you successfully roleblock the person who tries to kill you, Anonymities?

[MrBuddyLee]

What's the "someone you found" info you have?

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm a waste of a kill because M-M controls my night actions.

However, keep in mind that I'm still collared by M-M: if I had any night actions, I wouldn't be in control of them anymore.

That first statement is odd coming from someone with no night actions.

I tried to collar Lordy last night.

M-M, can you keep more than one person collared at a time?

If you successfully collar, say, Fritzler tonight, what happens to Illumina?

Did the mod tell you Illumina's role or did she? Do you have any indication of her alignment? How do you know what night actions you can or can't perform with her?

What was the result you got back from the mod when you tried to collar lordy?

M-M, do you get to talk to Spamwise at night now?

Illumina, do you get to talk at night with Spamwise?

Illumina, what did the mod tell you when you were collared about your current and future ability to perform your night actions?

Spamwise, were you told about anything related to a change in your mason partner?

And why are people not very curious about all this?

[MrBuddyLee]

Claim something or nothing, everyone, pleeeeeeease. And propose a lynch.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey guys, I sent in a PM right before I left asking Gleeman to have me investigate Illumina once night fell, but when I got back there was no reply. It looks like the message got sent, so I'll PM and see what's up.

[MrBuddyLee]

Illumina: I sense a fearsome power growing within her but I do not believe she is the evil sort.

[MrBuddyLee]

OK Tamuz, I think you've played fairly pro-town this game. You were absolutely right about the CDB wagon--it lacked substance, but unbeknownst had a cop investigation behind it. You were right about Flay Mariyta and Yos, right about Spamwise, and didn't try to wagon me for a change which is somewhat shocking. You expressed reasonable doubt about PJ and Ghyrt, Fritz and Lordy. I think your judgments have been relatively sound.

BUT--I don't understand how you glean your information. PJ makes a good point. And the stanza that strikes me as unaddressed at this point is:

As far as powers I'm confused
Because knowledge (Flay & Yos) to me have cruised
But from what I am bamboozed.

Is there anything else you can tell us about how this knowledge arrived in your lap?

Ghyrt--you haven't done much scumhunting this game. You show no interest in winning the game for town by outing the hypothetical last scum--none whatsoever. Please grace us with your opinions.

I wouldn't be surprised if the dragon were scum.

Meaning PJ?

M-M--it's been 3 1/2 weeks since your last post of substance. You also don't appear to give a damn about finding the remaining scum. Please give us your thoughts.

Other people have been lousy contributors but their roleclaims are not nearly as discomforting.

[MrBuddyLee]

The three people I'd like to kill off in order are:

M-M
Ghyrt
Fritzler

But since Ghyrt cannot be vigged, the only way to kill him is to lynch him.

I suggest a possible course of action:

Lynch Ghyrt
Vig M-M
Roleblock M-M

Or not roleblock him if the roleblock implies a protection from Vig.

Also, PJ, you mention the possibility of a cult:

6.) Illumina (Unless M-M specifically comes up as a Cult Leader role)

I've considered the possibility of you being a cult leader as well, but two things speak against that:

1) Too much power: recruitment plus kills
2) In a game with no reveals of role, a cult would be difficult if not impossible to detect and thus unbalanced.

So yeah, I think we'll probably win if we off Ghyrt and M-M. Thoughts?

[MrBuddyLee]

6. mystery meat of doom
8. petroleumjelly
9. Fritzler (replaces lml)
12. MrBuddyLee
13. Machiavellian-Mafia
14. Anonymities (replaces TheMan himself (replaces Ameliaslay)
22. Illumina
23. Ghyrt (replaces - broomhead )
25. Tamuz

I wouldn't kill mmod, PJ or Anonymities any time soon.

This leaves M-M, Ghyrt, Fritz, Tamuz, Illumina.

If we kill two every day/night and the most scum can kill is one, that means that at worst:

5 town, 1 scum tomorrow
2 town 1 scum the next day

If we only lynch it goes at worst:

6 town one scum tomorrow
4 town one scum the next day
2 town one scum the third day

Question is, which course is preferable? I have the feeling my investigations may have outlived their use, as one of the most likely suspects has quite possibly godfathered an innocent result. I've also considered that I'd be dead right now if I posed a threat to scum as a cop. The alternative is that one of {PJ, mmod, Anonymities, MBL, Fritz} is scum, and Fritz, the most likely of those has a quite protown roleclaim.

Also, the above numbers don't hold if Ghyrt is killed. Fresh investigation results aside, if nothing else changes, is he the likely lynch tomorrow?

Is the balefiring of lordy viewed as an attempt to eliminate surety of Fritzler's alibi? We weren't able to confirm lordy's identity and thus are unable to confirm Fritz's relationship with lordy. WIFOM, sure, but it looks like an attempt to bring Fritzler to the forefront of suspicion. I suppose it's equally possible that Fritzler balefired his partner to eliminate any evidence of a tainted role? Is there anything about the mechanism of balefire that would prohibit any of these possibilities?

[MrBuddyLee]

I am not thrilled about the nexus between PJ, M-M and Ghyrt.

The nights when balefiring occurred, the three of them did things out of their usual pattern of activity.

The night TSS was obliterated, M-M claims to have targeted PJ, PJ claims to have targeted his Ashaman, and Ghyrt claims to have done nothing due to PJ's order.

The night lordy was obliterated, M-M claimed to have targeted lordy and PJ claimed to have done nothing along with Ghyrt.

Every other night, M-M targeted someone as far as we know. Every other night PJ vigged someone and Ghyrt did the dirty work.

Also, the balefire seems to get more powerful each day. It may prove critical that we kill off the most likely sources asap before it gets any stronger. I'm more hesitant about killing off PJ, but I don't see a problem with killing Ghyrt and M-M immediately. Can anyone else please post their thoughts on this?

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: M-M

If I get balefired tonight I'm gonna be pissed. Lynch Ghyrt tomorrow if I die, please, and don't give PJ all your trust.

[MrBuddyLee]

From my perspective, I think mmod and Tamuz are clearest, followed by Anonymities and then PJ. Based on their play primarily, along with investigations and their claims. PJ falls a bit due to his proximity to the balefire nexus.

Illumina and Fritz are next on my list half because of their roles, half because of how they've played.

M-M and Ghyrt are at the bottom of my list, primarily due to their coincidental behaviors on balefire nights.

I don't think we should fear the loss of a vig at this point. Without one we likely have four mislynches before we're cooked. I think we should axe the people who admit to being able to kill, as they're the most likely source of our problems. That pretty much means M-M, Ghyrt, PJ at this point. Any thoughts on whether these three as our next few lynches makes sense?

In my book:

1) PJ has kilt a lotta scum. If he's scum this has been a Bussapalooza. Possible but not so likely. He'd also have to be investigation immune in my book, to do this with such audacity and to let the cop live this long.
2) Ghyrt hasn't done much other than get ordered around. Not much proof of protownitude.
3) M-M has not exactly delved the depths scrying for scum. He's more told us what he's done.

My vote stays on M-M but I'd also be comfortable moving it to Ghyrt tonight.

[MrBuddyLee]

I think PJ should be lynched before me, if it comes to that But we're a long way from discussing that, unless of course I disappear tonight.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey, I'm just handing out advice should the inevitable happen and your cop gets silenced by death.

Many of you have the potential to use balefire as you've described your roles. I do not. My statement stands.

[MrBuddyLee]

Vote count please. And let's see some votes. Ghyrt or M-M sounds like we're down to.

[MrBuddyLee]

You're trusting PJ when he says Ghyrt's his only killing outlet.

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't trust PJ 100%. I want a Ghyrt lynch tomorrow most likely unless investigations turn up anything interesting.

[MrBuddyLee]

6. mystery meat of doom
8. petroleumjelly
9. Fritzler (replaces lml)
12. MrBuddyLee
14. Anonymities (replaces TheMan himself (replaces Ameliaslay)
23. Ghyrt (replaces - broomhead )
25. Tamuz

Shouldn't it be seven remaining, Gleeman?

[MrBuddyLee]

*sheds a tear*

[MrBuddyLee]

No cultists died in the making of this film.

[MrBuddyLee]

Any of several events would have tipped the game in the town's favor.

1) More cultists earlier would have meant a cultist surely would be killed and revealed sooner. Town suffered terribly due to the lack of awareness of cult.

2) If an investigative role had stayed pro-town for longer, they'd have hit cult eventually.

3) Scum could have hit Maesema sooner.

4) Town could have lynched Maesema sooner.