WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[Axelrod]

Hello everyone! Sorry for being late, but I have been out of town.

I've read everything through once (quickly) and I'm unimpressed by Mr. Flay's response to his wagon. It appears almost textbook "mafia caught by Cop day 1" response.

That said, I haven't played with Mr. Flay before, so I can't really say how he normally would or would not react to such an accusation.

It seems to me that he is the one who ought to be giving up more information, however, as opposed to Tamuz. His neck is on the line after all.

Couple other people jumped out at me also. Looks like there could be a lot of scum in this game.

[Axelrod]

Scummy Observations:

Mach Man: in his first post, states the blatantly obvious. Also didn't like the way he voted for Mr. Flay after Tamuz' post.

ChanelDelibird: saying his ridiculous first vote on MMOD

wasn't

a joke vote. WTF?

Karn: random votes are stupid--random vote. WTF?

Mariyta: too helpful? and agreeing with obvious things. And asking for clarification on a "non-random" vote could be seen as Cop-fishing. Voting Mr. Flay says "here's hoping" Tamuz is right--with a ! Scummy.

armlx: also didn't like the way he voted Mr. Flay (partly because I have used the

exact

same line when voting for a fellow scum who had been caught out. )

Albert the great: mainly for the "well done, Tamuz"

Bascas:

another

interesting reaction to Tamuz's post. The little doesn't make it seem more sincere. Defends Flay. Wagons Karn.

Mr. Flay: I don't understand his defense. Says Tamuz is wrong because he has no idea about his sanity. Don't understand what he means about giving the protective roles a choice of 2 targets, and that someone will die? Then wants the supposed Cop to come out with his information (which is what I would do if I was scum--try to get as much info as possible before you go down.) In some way, he doesn't seem outraged enough by the whole situation.

Broomhead: vote Flay, if Tamuz is wrong warns will vote for him.

Not scummy: PJ

Eh. I would like Tamuz to confirm one more time that Mr. Flay is scum. He says he's not a Cop, which is all well and good, I'm not asking him how he got his info or what his role is. I just want confirmation. His first post was too certain to have just been a "guess." If he confirms it, I'm voting Flay.

Tamuz, if this was just a gambit, I think it's time to say so.

[Axelrod]

That was a lot of poetry to not give a straight answer. But I'm taking this:

Yes Armlx, not a real cop investigation
In fact a fake one like WMDs in that nation
If it were possible a vote to you would be a strong temptation.

To mean you really have nothing. And I gather you can't unvote. Which means the evidence against Flay is strictly by way of his somewhat off (to my way of thinking) response to your "accusation."

blah.

Vote: Mariyta

. Scummiest of the rest to me at this stage.

[Axelrod]

vote count:
9 Kanr1 - (TSS, Spamwise, Friztler, Bascas, Mr. Flay, Yamahako,
5 Mr Flay - (Tamuz, Pooky, Karn1, Coron, Broomhead
Channeldbird, Petrojelly, Armlx))
3 Mariyta - (Ameliaslay, Karn, Axelrod)
1 Fritztler - (Mrbuddylee)

This is extremely messed up. Correction please?

[Axelrod]

I'm not voting for anyone who claims Nynaeve/Cop without a counter-claim. That's nuts. There's no way that's a scum role (baring bastard modding in the extreme), and surely she'd be in the game.

Yamahako: let me be clear. If

you

are Nynaeve, and this is why you know Karn is full of it, that's one thing. In that case we string him up and smile. Yes that "outs" you, which is what he might want, but frankly, if he's lying the mafia will be looking at you anyway because of your reaction so you are practically outed already, and you might not get the Doc protection.

If there's no counter-claim this is a retarded lynch.

Unvote: Mariyta

- Karn, answer me this, however, why'd you ask that question and why'd you pick pick her?

[Axelrod]

I'm not voting for anyone who claims Nynaeve/Cop without a counter-claim.

hmm, there seems to be a sign on Axelrod's door, it reads: "gone fishin' be back later"

there is no doubt in this game that there will be multiple cops, so that would just be outting more and more cops(if karn is one)

What?

I'm not asking for any generic "Cop" to counterclaim being a Cop. Not at

all

. I am looking for the person who's actually

Nynaeve

, if it's not Karn, to say so--without saying what their actual role is at all. That's all we would need.

If no one counters, we are left with the conclusion that (1) Karn really is Nynaeve - in which case I suggest it's

significantly less likely

he is scum, or (2) Karn's not Nynaeve, but Nynaeve is not in the game and was given to scum as a safe claim. In which case it seems Yam's main point (that Karn is making it up) would be wrong. I wouldn't base a lynch on a "flavor" analysis either--i.e. that character would never be that role because of such and such that happened in the books.

This is basic mafia 101 folks. You don't lynch a claimed Cop day 1. The risk in letting him live a while (and I believe eventually he would be caught out--possibly even tonight if we tell him what question to ask) is far, far less then the damage we do killing him if he speaks the truth.

[Axelrod]

For what its worth, I have role relevant information regarding the character Nynaeve being a doc. That's why I am so sure. If he turns up town go ahead and lynch me tomorrow, but trust me he's scum.

Now see, this is probably where recent familiarity with the books would be helpful. I read the first 7 but the last time I picked one up was literally 1996. So, yeah, now I remember Nynaeve as a Doc makes much sense, and if she's a Doc. it could possibly be bad for her to claim (although catching a scum out is still not a horrible trade).

In any event, I'll accept your info.

Unvote;

Vote: Karn

Really, I totally forgot she was a healer.

[Axelrod]

@axelrod, does anyone really have a super good logical reason for picking their night 1 target?

Yes? Seriously, there are plenty of reasons you might have. Good ones and Bad ones. But there's some reason, right? Which you still haven't said.

[Axelrod]

I believe we need 2 more votes to finish this.

Anyone not convinced yet?

[Axelrod]

Heh. I agree with TSS, except I've got like three more people on my hit list in addition (which would be, for reference, armlx, MrBuddyLee, and Broomhead). I realize they can't all be scum, even in a game this size. But I'd say there's a

disproportionate

amount in there.

[Axelrod]

I want to put something out there in case I get ganked one of these nights:

Not this past night but the night before, someone tried to put a collar around my neck but I broke free. I suspected yesterday that Tamuz had been a victim of some kind of mind-control collar, but I guess that wasn't the case. If anyone else had the collar incident happen to them, we might want them to speak up now.

I am somewhat confused by this post. Night 1 (i.e. the

same

Night Tamuz would have theoretically been affected) someone tried to put a collar on you but you "broke free" (how nice for you). So naturally you think that Tamuz is being controlled because...you think the mad collar person can put 2 collars on different people every Night? You think after failing on you he got to try someone else? You think someone might have been collared this night, but also broke free? If the person didn't break free, do you think they are going to be able to tell us they have a collar on right now?

What makes today a better time to have told us this than yesterday?

Basically you have told us that someone is out there trying to put collars on people (that would be Seashan, right? And the collars presumably would prevent use of the power and/or give someone control over another player? Am I remembering the storyline corrently). This is potentially useful information, but I really don't understand your timing here. Would the Seashan even be a scum group in this game ( Im speaking flavorwise--remember, haven't picked up the book in 10 years. Last I recall, they weren't too nice, but not necessarily "evil" either. And there was some hint that Mat might end up married to the queen or something like that. Anything more up to date on them? Yes, I realize I could look this stuff up, but I really don't feel like it. ) I guess I'm wondering if this could be the actions of a

townie

role-blocker/vote-controller, etc.?

Thoughts on that?

On the other hand, I have played games where (as mafia) we pretended to have been attacked (or role-blocked, etc.) on Night 1 to try and make ourselves look better subsequent Nights.

[Axelrod]

I'm going to accept what MBL is saying for now.

I might be willing to vote Mariyta. I was suspicious of her yesterday, but the person I really, really want to vote is Armlx. And right now they are voting for each other.

I think I mentioned before, but this post:

Thats what I'm talking about

Vote Mr. Flay

Is, literally, the exact same thing I said once in a game where I was scum and my scumbuddy had been outed by a Cop. In that game, I regretted the post immediately after I made it because I

knew

it sounded too forced and "happy" to be a genuine sentiment. Doesn't seem genuine to me now either.

And the rest of his posts don't look any better. Mostly one-liners. In and out very quickly. Mostly agreeing or parroting stuff other people have already said.

Vote: Armlx

[Axelrod]

Is Pooky in this game? He is, right?

Do we think he's forgotten he's in the game?

also armlx, please come explain why you are not scum. I'll PBPA you. You know I will.

[Axelrod]

You asked:

/me lurks until we can play mafia and not role specualte.... I have no clue about anything from the series....

Cute opening. Discourages role speculation (not who has what role, but what kind of role might have done what kill based on the morning scene, which is not bad speculation, in my opinion.)

Thats what I'm talking about

Vote Mr. Flay

The post I've mentioned before. Sounds like a scummy me. Too happy?

Karn is clearly scum because he said he would "probably" vote someone with a guilty investigation on them. I picked up on that one too.

Others (TSS?) have said Karn was giving off tells, and someone (?) asked what Karn did. Armlx fills in a blank here. This is not scummy.

Since its not a real cop investigation, I guess I'll go for the other scum....

Unvote, Vote KArn1

Quickly jumps off Flay-wagon. Quicker than I probably would have given the somewhat ambiguous nature of Tamuz hint. Jumps the next biggest wagon.

Vote stands, I think thats too much of a flying pumpkin role to be real (unless it has existed before, in which case I will unvote).

Disbelieves Karn's role-claim, but with the caveat that if it's an actual role he'd unvote. Now I can't say if armlx

really

had never seen that role before or not. Only that I, like others, have seen it before.

Unvote

Ok, the role isn't something that was pulled out of Karn's ass, so it could be real.

While were on it, anyone know any good questions we can have Karn1 ask the mod?

Now at this point I have posted my post where I said voting to lynch a claimed Cop was just stupid. Armlx seems to be following my lead here. Seems over-eager to use Karn's superpowers now.

Vote Karn

Lack of background knowledge kicks me in the nuts again. No clue his "role name" was a nut high healer......

Still, HAMMAH!!!!!

Again, following me here, I recognized that Nynaeve was more likely to be a Healer (and also that Yam was practically screaming it was his role). Again, seems too eager/happy with the whole "Hammah" thing.

Flay prolly was scum. Karn's name wasn't in red either.

Flay

probably

was scum?

I trust MBL here as his general play behavior is like this.

Maritya seems out of place tho

Vote Maritya

And finally, his great logic in voting for the wagon of Mariyta. Seems "out of place." What does that even mean?

All your posts are short. 1 or 2 sentences. Following others votes. Quick to jump on scum, but just as quick to jump off again when given any reason. Seemed too happy about his first vote for Flay and the hammering of Karn. Playing up your ignorance about the set-up. General bandwaggoning.

That's about it.

[Axelrod]

Hey Mariyta, I think you have 10 votes now.

Rather than posting elipsis, you might want to consider doing something more useful like, say, claiming.

[Axelrod]

Okay Mariyta, after Tamuz's post was clarified to NOT be a Cop inspection (as far as we knew at least), and people were talking like he might have been mind controlled, you unvoted Flay.

What made you decide to kill him later?

[Axelrod]

All hail the Mighty Black Ajah! We who had no Night kill to start the game, but had to identify a Forsaken before gaining one. Who proceeded to have one member die to scum (I'm assuming) crossfire Night 1, neatly informing the Mason group he was a part of of the Traitors in their midst, and another Night 2 (to I have no idea), and then the 3rd was replaced without his replacement being informed that his predecessor had already role-claimed (a scum name) to his Mason group. Awesome.

We rock.