Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[Blonde Doctor]

Hey guys! Sorry I'm a bit late with my start, but I just wanted to let you know I was here. : )

I'm working on catching up as soon as possible, but I just wanted to let you guys know my general theory on replacing into large/long games like this:
-I plan on ISOing the mod.
-I plan on ISOing my predecessor.
-I plan on rereading the last 10 pages.

Basically I don't think there's a whole lot else to get by reading a whole bunch of RVS and beginning-of-the-day stuff, and if people are vigilant in their cases, then they'll say everything I need to know about a player(s)/I'll see everything I need to know from the way they present their cases.

If there's anything pertinent you think I need to know, that would be more convenient than reading the first 35 pages, feel free to holla' at me and point it out.

See you soon!
~BD

[Blonde Doctor]

@BlondeDr- I would throw in a ISO of flipped scum, to get a glimpse of interactions, etc. on first read. And all "almost" lynches.

That's a really good idea. I have a hard time putting pieces together like that, but I'll offer whatever I come up with. In other games I've read, I find that if there are two running wagons for most of the day, you should probably lynch both of them eventually, since you wouldn't want to find that if the first one was a mislynch, the other was scum who "got away."

I would fully advocate that kind of pressure, though not follow it religiously since obviously there can be many factors that effect the next day's lynch (i.e. investigation results, etc).

Also, I'm most likely not going to have a huge wall-o-text kind of catch-up, since those are annoying to read (and write ), but I will make sure to make note of the bigger points from all of the different "sections" I'm reading, including now the ISOs of flipped scum and "near lynches."

[Blonde Doctor]

7 pages just today...you guys are making it hard for me to keep up! O_o

Ok, so I've ISOed "myself" and the mod, and read up to the Kendall wagon, all while trying to keep up with this stupid activity!
-I was interested in seeing the whole tunneling point of view...apparently it generated the discussion it needed to, haha.

Kendall: I think you mixed up Jmurph with Beefster. (This means Kendall and Jmurph aren't the same alignment) What is your read on Beck?

-This is weird...it would only imply that if one is mafia, it's highly unlikely the other one is mafia as well; HOWEVER, this doesn't mean they can't both be town. Such a curious statement to not even acknowledge that possibility...
-re: the cop discussion (this was within a couple pages of my replacing in), I don't think a cop should investigate whomever is "scummiest" by the end of the day, because chances are they're going to be a pretty big target for a lynch the next day, and if you come up with an innocent, then you run the risk of either outing yourself to save a lynch, or having wasted an investigation on someone you can't save...if that makes sense?

I'm also ISOing Kendall and DonJosh (now petroleum).

Up through page 8:

-Speaking of which, it's worth noting Don's 129 is very curious...seems veeery much like he's avoiding anything scummy...but then he comes out right in the open and says "I won't do this because it LOOKS scummy"...wtf...
-In the next post Kendall points out that he thinks Beck is preemptively excusing himself from scummy behavior, where in the same vain RIGHT BEFORE Don does the same thing...selective "scumhunting"?
-keeping a vote on someone != tunneling...

Kendall wagon:

you are voting for me because i am trying too hard to be pro-town. how is someone exemplifying extreme pro-town behavior your first suspect to be mafia? that, in itself, is a logical fallacy.

-*sigh*
-I agree with Ray Montano when he said it seemed like all Kendall was doing was throwing spaghetti.
-Still going...oh boy...kind of facepalms all across the boarder with this one...I need to sleep before I can keep reading and swallow any more of this.
-Umbrage started the Kendall wagon...

[Blonde Doctor]

Either way, I have a newb read on Kendall from the first few pages. I am inclined to call his play newbtown, but I can't make up my mind.

I think Kendell's wagon was very much scum driven. I see Kendell making a lot of the same mistakes I wouldn't necessarily think about making, and Umbrage tried to use that to her advantage. It was very easy for many people to hop onto it because she would say things that initially looked anti-town. I'm kind of phone-posting checking in, but when I get back to a computer tomorrow I'll post the catch-up thoughts that I gathered through the night (totally missed the lynch while trying to catch up on the recent parts of the game at the same time...blast large games... ).

[Blonde Doctor]

unvote

VOTE: SodaSpirit

I don't feel like catching up.

As promised, this scumbucket is finished. Today.

VOTE: Beefster

Don't like a lot of what he's done; really exhausted right now though, have a big day I prepared for tomorrow. Therefore my actual case will be posted in my next available moment.

This is stupid. How does that make him scum? I really hope you have something better to back this up because it seems like an empty reason to vote for someone after apparently being gone for so long..

[Blonde Doctor]

Blonde Doctor, are you finished with your catch up?

OOPS Quote mine

I mean, I've been giving thoughts about the things I've read...is that what you mean? These large games go faster than what I'm used to reading...

Rainbow's claim seems legit to me but as others have said I expect at least 1 scum in there. Not sure who it is yet but expect at least 1 and maybe two

if we do have a dual scum group.

What's a dual scum group? Aren't we just finding one?

Flavor's claimm just obliterated my semi-scummy read on her. I never really believed woody would be a one shot vig and that's it. The joat claim makes a lot of sense and fits the character much better.

I agree with this. I thought Flavor was the cop at first, so I always thought he was town, and there wouldn't be a scum JOAT, right? That would be really powerful I think.

Hiraki said something funny in regards to Umbrage. It sounded like he was trying to defend her and sluff her actions off on being a VI instead of them being scummy, while still allowing for the possibility of being on her wagon by calling it a "policy lynch."

Finger of Supicion: DeathNote

Rainbow...why is the town not as concerned with finding a serial killer? Also, what's a stalling tactic?

@Farside...have I dropped an empty vote? Or did I misread something...

Preview Edit:
I think if there's an opportunity to clear neighbors with each other, they should. That would be like masons, and pretty powerful for town.

[Blonde Doctor]

@Farside...have I dropped an empty vote? Or did I misread something..

I don't recall saying anything to you. Are you sure it's me that asked about a vote?
Also there was more then one person that called Umbrage a VI.

Gragh. I was trying to figure out who that was in my reread, but I can't find it anymore.

meh I thought about this and I might as well claim. I'm the other alien neighbor. It's why I argued with people's thought process and calling the claim fake.

I'm alien #2. My reason's for finding NtW more scummy came from the QT. He didn't chat during pregame. He claims to be busy and didn't know the game had day talk. I was also the person whom believed all of us needed to come to a consensus and discuss our scum reads in case there was scum in the neighborhood. NtW night 1 had Bobz, FA and glow as scum suspects and I tried to get him to explain his reasoning and he never did. Many questions got ignored and when I called him out he walks out of the QT which heightened my scum read more.
Rainbow and myself discuss at length our views about the players in the game and how we read people. That is why I see her as town. She was all for shooting Umbrage night 1 and just wanted the town to come together to be a unity.

Also as I said to Oversoul. If all neighbors put the same name in as a target the chances of that target being vigged is nearly 100% the person who does the kill is 1 out of 3. We don't know whom gets picked as the person doing the vig ability or whom the claw picks.

THAT'S SUCH A COOL DYNAMIC.
/nerd alert
Ok, so I believe you on this. It also really surprises me that Nanook says:

So yeah, both Farside and Rainbow probably have a good case against me. If I were in their shoes I'd feel the same ...

My only defense is that returning after 2 years and jumping right back into 4 games apparently was stupid. That's really all I've got on that. If my neighbors choose me tonight, then I will most likely join them.

because how can you admit that someone has a good case on you. It's like you're giving up? I also agree with bobsnox...if you think there's the possibility of "so and so" being a town PR or scum...why the rash decision to accept more of a possibility of them being scum? Surely, the pros of waiting to find out, potentially keeping a town PR alive, far outweigh the cons of not bothering to wait and hoping you hit scum...
I also think that you could've replaced out if you didn't think you could handle that many games...

@jmurph...I'm sorry I don't have an avatar yet...I'm not really sure how...?

Preview Edit:
@Jakalope...did you miss the third claim? It very much explains a lot of the case on Nanook (at least to me). Also, did your read on Nanook change? Or...I don't understand what would've changed other than flips...

[Blonde Doctor]

@Jakelope...it was [url=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3368887]farside22/url].

[Blonde Doctor]

Oh no, I can't even do that right... O_o

@Jakelope...it was farside22.

[Blonde Doctor]

I hate when I forget to submit posts, haha.

Well that makes my vig choice easy.

Was not bluffing.

I don't think it's very fair to judge Juls on the fact that she answered the questions immediately after she replaced in and clearly hadn't read much of the game yet. I mean, I wouldn't have known that the had been an assigned person to answer the question until jmurph said something.

It sounds like Juls could be a variation of a vengeful townie? If she's scum, though, I don't want to give her an extra kill cuz then we can't do anything about who she kills. How does that in any way make sense? Wouldn't it be better to vig-kill her and lynch someone else?

@mod...Do the gifts change depending on whether they're town or scum?

[Blonde Doctor]

@Juls - Does this ability stay or is it only for this game day?

This is the important question to me and why I haven't voted Juls. If the ability is only for today, then I say our best bet is to lynch Juls. If she's scum, hey, we've still lynched scum, even if we trade a townie for it. If she's town, we get the ability to use the shot on someone we think is really scummy. But that's just me.

That's actually a really good point since the trade-off seems to be good unless she shoots a PR...but that's always the risk of a vig, too...right?

HOWEVER,
I don't know that I even want her dead. It's not like a regular vig shot. We're potentially risking a townie for a townie, when we already have a vig shot at our disposal, with at least two seemingly competent players to use it. Honestly, I don't think it was wise to claim that, since the only way you could use it is if you were dead, so she basically just used it to try to keep herself alive. This whole thing is so silly.

I will not be voting for her today because of the stupid reason that she answered questions

she didn't even know she shouldn't answer

. So dumb...

@inHim...why not just keep pushing for a chkflip lynch if you want him dead so badly? Why risk putting his death in the hands of an unknown?

@Jak...what makes you think the shot is unblockable? I actually have a theory.
Also, why the sudden turn-around on Nanook AGAIN? What about being in the neighborhood all of a sudden makes him

less

scummy, especially knowing how the other two neighbors feel about it...

[Blonde Doctor]

@Juls - Does this ability stay or is it only for this game day?

This is the important question to me and why I haven't voted Juls. If the ability is only for today, then I say our best bet is to lynch Juls. If she's scum, hey, we've still lynched scum, even if we trade a townie for it. If she's town, we get the ability to use the shot on someone we think is really scummy. But that's just me.

That's actually a really good point since the trade-off seems to be good unless she shoots a PR...but that's always the risk of a vig, too...right?

HOWEVER,
I don't know that I even want her dead. It's not like a regular vig shot. We're potentially risking a townie for a townie, when we already have a vig shot at our disposal, with at least two seemingly competent players to use it. Honestly, I don't think it was wise to claim that, since the only way you could use it is if you were dead, so she basically just used it to try to keep herself alive. This whole thing is so silly.

I will not be voting for her today because of the stupid reason that she answered questions

she didn't even know she shouldn't answer

. So dumb...

@inHim...why not just keep pushing for a chkflip lynch if you want him dead so badly? Why risk putting his death in the hands of an unknown?

@Jak...what makes you think the shot is unblockable? I actually have a theory.
Also, why the sudden turn-around on Nanook AGAIN? What about being in the neighborhood all of a sudden makes him

less

scummy, especially knowing how the other two neighbors feel about it...

[Blonde Doctor]

Hey guys! I'm really sorry, but my internet crapped out and the guy is coming on Monday to fix it (friend's computer). This is my only game, so I'll be back to catch up then.

At quick glance, I'm glad to see the wagon on Juls died down because that was silly, and I approve of TheJakelope wagon.

B~D

[Blonde Doctor]

Hey guys!

I only have a few pages to look at, but I have very, very strong town reads on Juls and farside. Their interactions with each other have been very pro-town.

I have also realize how confusing it is to follow Rainbowdash's thought process (as well as his referring to people as "ponies"...), but I have a town read on him as well.

Re: BP townie things...couldn't he just be investigated by a cop or something if he have one? I don't see how risking the possibility of bobsnox being scum is worth keeping him alive til the end. It's the liability that now all of a sudden we have a whole bunch of wifom at the end of the game. Can you see why it might actually be better for town, instead of calling people stupid?
I would advocate for his lynch ONLY if we can't confirm his innocence in another way, like through the joat or something (they have the ability to investigate, right?).

I don't have time for other thoughts since I'm traveling today, but I will definitely get the rest up when I settle down again. : )

B~D

[Blonde Doctor]

What happened to claiming?

I know bobs has been confirmed scum and all, but wouldn't it be helpful to the neighborhood at the very least to hear some claims?

Just sayin.

So, when someone complains about people voting prematurely, and continues to vote the same way (i.e. doesn't do anything about it)...would you say that's hypocritical, or no? It sounds a lot like finding a way to contribute without actually backing up what you're saying.

Hrm...

I can't really argue with the mechanics of a hider, but oh my I feel less good about where I plan to vote.

@Mod...I would like to see inHim replaced by RandomActs so he has a chance to play, especially if he's probably already been catching up in the game.

[Blonde Doctor]

First of all, wholey bugger, I'm so sorry. The blackouts last week fried my computer and I wasn't quite around over the weekend anyway, so it wasn't on my list of priorities to find a way to log in. I'm really sorry about that though, since obviously I should've...

SORRY MOD.

Second of all, I'm Bonnie, town (from Toy Story 3.

Third of all,

There's no fucking way there are 8 Mafia in this setup.

Going with what I'd played in before.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3085757

How many are there?

That's multiscum, meaning more killing and more opportunity for crosskills=more scum.

With three kills a night and only one accounted for town, how could you possibly assume that there's only one mafia group with limited mafia...

[Blonde Doctor]

Oh man...large games...

I want to apologize to my scum team for not playing up to par. I thought I could ride Spyrex's "naivete" town read on me, but eventually I got lost in the speed of the game and lacked a lot of my own original input. This has always been my problem and probably always will be.

I want to thank Scott for allowing me the opportunity to replace into the game.

Also, I wanted to say this about Glowball's counterclaim. I actually think it helped the scum team with claims in the end because then people were questioning the legitimacy of safe claims for scum. There was a lot of talk about "we can prooobably assume they don't have safe claims based off of Umbrage's deal" etc. Not realizing that it was unnecessary also kind of adds to the fact that I think she was probably doing it for sake of credit because she already ~knew~ Umbrage was scum, but wanted to pull someone awesomely, fantastic stunt that would allow her to bask in the glory of being "right."

It's unfortunate that anyone would cheat like that. I hope that she realizes that she doesn't have anything to be proud of in this game. It was most definitely a dishonorable loss for her.
And for someone who freaks out about people who are "rude" to her, she sure does talk up a pretty rude storm herself...

BUT.

Town played magnificently, and had I not had a different wincon, I would've loved to see their hard work pay off (I was almost secretly rooting for them in the end there). The credit for scum win definitely goes to PJ and jmurph.