In 15 Crazy wrote:I'm also struggling to figure out why you asked that question. What were you planning on doing with the results to your survey?
First sentence seems disingenuous, second seems counter-productive.
In 15 Crazy wrote:I'm also struggling to figure out why you asked that question. What were you planning on doing with the results to your survey?
Ranmaru wrote:@Imaginality: How does random votes make Pom scummy? Can you expand on why Crazy's second sentence was counter productive?
@Crazy: Since when have you put yourself on invisible?
In 49 Crazy wrote:Imaginality is in my Top 3 for sure, but he needs to post some more first, and I don't want to explain why he's scummy NOW because I don't want to upset his natural play.
Crazy 387 wrote:I think it is somewhat reasonable to think that one of the scum probably knew Furry - providing that Ellibereth didn't manipulate this situation himself by killing Furry, which was another one of my worries with the original question.
Then you should read the arguments. From how I read it, smalls was using Low Key's scumreads which were based on Hiraki being scum. We know this has been disproven, so I don't think these are too useful. For as far as I know, LK's read on me was apart from the Hiraki-wagon, a general read that would still apply if LK was alive today.
Crazy wrote:Okay, screw this Pom wagon. My only read on her is of someone that obviously didn't have enough time to devote to this game, especially since she ended up requesting replacement. If she happens to be scum, then it's by luck.
Crazy wrote:I see no particular reason to lynch her now, before her replacement comes in, at least.
Crazy wrote:He never responded to the wagon on himself or came up with any decent reads. I suppose he probably will try soon, but I doubt anything he will say will change my mind at this point.
Red Coyote wrote:VTs have two uses in a traditional game of mafia. Providing an unknown variable for the scum to deal with and scumhunting. Given that small has already thrown away half of his value to us, he has to rest entirely on his ability to scumhunt.
smallpeoples343 iso41 wrote:Quite frankly, I don't know who to suspect. I've thought that you were innocent, and maybe [Low Key] was a little too persuasive (maybe that's why mafia killed her...), then when she died, I was planning to use her suspicions, but now I feel hesitant
smallpeoples343 iso32 wrote:iamausername wrote:smalls, why are you only using one of your votes?
This was a question a long time ago, but I just got on, so I was still deciding who I should put my second vote on.
Quilford wrote:DrippingGoofball wrote:You could investigate me instead of vig'ing me you know. Being vig'ed is humiliating. Especially with my history of being Nk'd by the scum. Though Ranmaru's pants-on-head is an unfortunate insurance policy against that happening.
Oh, so you're a godfather? Good to know.
Ranmaru wrote:Vote: Kunkstar
Vote: DGB
smallpeoples343 wrote:Kunkstar... I'd say scum.
Amrun wrote:I am interested in the mason's town read... I can't think of any legitimate reason for a mason to not give a reason RC is supposedly town.
DrippingGoofball wrote:HackerHuck wrote:vote: Crazy
vote: Ranmaru
Amrun is my alternate.
I like DGB's to do list - I think I'll get to that once I'm more up to speed.
This is the scum's only post so far.
Crazy wrote:My town read on DGB is largely based on her not calling WLC scum, yes. I saw your low risk/reward vs. high risk/reward crap, and the "high reward" scenario would only apply if everyone in this game loves to WIFOM as much as I do. And they don't, so it was hardly a "high reward" at all.
Crazy wrote:-Appeal to Emotion is never a scum-tell as far as I'm concerned, since we're all a bunch of hardened sociopaths that aren't really going to be swayed by appeals to emotion. I never see anyone going "Aww, I really don't want to hurt his feelings by lynching him." Why is AtE a scum-tell for you?
Crazy wrote:DGB's quickhammer of Kunkstar would be bad scum play since it stopped Kunkstar from claiming a post restriction
Tarhalindur wrote:Second scum is Imaginality (horribly, horribly under the radar).
DGB wrote:Wanting to lynch IC players to confirm smalls' alignment for one...
DGB wrote:His absence on most wagons is worrisome.
Tarhalindur 1219 wrote:Crazy's been pushing imaginality. IMAGINALITY. And his case is quite solid.
DrippingGoofball wrote:Empking wrote:DrippingGoofball wrote:Empking wrote:Do people honestly think that "I'm town" is genuinely coming out of DGB's mouth. She's being insincere. That's a bulletproof scum tell.
Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft
It's interesting that you don't question my sincerity that you're scum.
I understasnd that town can sincerely think I'm scum.
So, you're saying I'm town.
And that Isincerelythink you're scum.
Could it be because you are scum?
DrippingGoofball wrote:imaginality wrote:My reads as promised
Full disclosure: I changed the order. removed the reasons, and added headings.This is purely rhetorical and does nothing to demonstrate why imaginality might be scum.
DrippingGoofball wrote:imaginality wrote:Empking, always hard to read, seemed maybe null D1, but he's contributed pretty much less than zero D2. He's among my suspects now but maybe 5th behind DGB, smalls, Crazy, and kunkstar - who I didn't think was scummy 'til now, but unless WLC flips scum (doesn't seem likely) this hammer is definitely really bad.
It took that crap hammer to make imaginality find kunkstar "REALLY BAD."
Empking is now a suspect but ooooooooooooooh, FIFTH, I kid you not,FIFTHbehind a whole bunch of players. He suspects Empking more, but imaginality has to put him in fifth position. Why bother? This is token suspicion at its best.
DrippingGoofball wrote:imaginality wrote:Amrun's good posts on the last few pages mean she's now a clearer town read to me. With Ranmaru looking obv-town, and, if we have three scum, I think the two remaining scum are either {DGB, Crazy}, or {smalls, Quilford/Empking}.Tarhalindur seeming town too
This is interesting.Imaginality also had RedCoyote as town, but in iso his comments on RedCoyote are very wishywashy.
"@Ellibereth: why are you votingRed Coyote? "
"@Red Coyote:do you think we need to get rid of smallpeoples343 simply because of his claim"
Talking IIoA withRedCoyote:"usefulness to town = % likelihood of being town * ability to contribute effectively (both scumhunting and using role powers if applicable) usefulness = towniness * effectiveness U=T*E"
DrippingGoofball wrote:imaginality wrote:I'm voting them both but I'd rather lynch DGB, who can run riot over the town if scum,
See, that's one of those logical snags. Why isn't he also saying in the same breath that I'm a tremendous asset to town? And he doesn't say"she's scum and could run a riot over the town"he says "scum." IF.IF
DrippingGoofball wrote:imaginality wrote:...You're scum, annoyed you weren't able to come in, take control, and lead the town to its destruction.
imaginality is one of the scumbags leaving Ranmaru alive everyday to decimate the town with krapreads.
Imaginality has been EXTRAORDINARILY CONSISTENT. This is a mega-scumtell. His "reads" pretty much do not ever waver. There is an instance of unvoting Crazy, but then he revotes later. He was suspicious of my predecessor Pomegranate since the RVS. He never, ever bothered to give me a chance. Imaginality was completely entrenched in finding me scum - there is absolutely no amount of town tells I can drop to make Mr.ConsistentScum change his mind.
DrippingGoofball wrote:imaginality wrote:smallpeoples343 wrote:Kunkstar... I'd say scum.
And yet you vote DGB 'to be normal and join the others'?
Grr. I still think DGB is scum, and I guess smallpeoples343 could be bussing with this lazy-scummy post. But that's a stretch if DGB is scum GF or other scum PR. I think smallpeople343's post fits more neatly with a DGB town, kunkstar7 + smallpeoples343 scum scenario. The 'vote town but list your buddy as your second (in this game third) suspect' approach.
Taking that into account, I think kunkstar7 should be lynched today ahead of DGB, since he's still scummy under either scenario.
Here, he berates smalls for voting me, and actually considers the possibility that I may be town for a minute, still hanging on to that stupid theory that I'm a GF. Now, even though imaginality has smalls on this scumlist, he is not voting smalls. He's voting me instead, presumably because I'm the key to figure out smalls' alignment, though in his post, the logical step would be the reverse... another logic snag. And yet... as he considers the possibility, at last, that I'm town... he still hangs on to his CONSISTENT STANCE: "I still think DGB is scum" - so despite calling it a stretch in the same sentence, he clearly announces that smalls is frikkin bus'ing me, of all things.
DrippingGoofball wrote:
Here's a defense of kunkstar:
imagescum wrote:Oh hey, Empking's vote has put kunkstar7 at L-1. No quick-hammers please.
Hey. I apologize for hammering your buddy before he had a chance to fakeclaim.
DrippingGoofball wrote:TL;DR - extraordinarily and un-naturally consistent, most reads are wishy-washy, logical stream only considering foregone conclusions and not other side of coin, will not change his mind even if his own "logic" dictates that he should, pretty much hasn't changed his mind on anything all game, softly protective of kunkstar despite his horrid hammer the day before.
imaginality wrote:I'm not feeling sure enough to back either a Quilford or Empking lynch today.
DrippingGoofball A wrote:It demonstrates that the bulk of your "reads" are null-to nullish. It was NOT rhetorical.
DrippingGoofball B wrote:imaginality wrote: [kunkstar's] Day 1 posts read well.
Erm, no, his FEW posts were poor to the point of hammering him without a chance to fakeclaim.Please support your statement that kunkstar's Day 1 posts "read well" and why your read remained unchanged after Day 1, and why it took kunkstar's second claimless hammer to finally vote him with some reluctance.
imaginality wrote:kunkstar7 - town read: in particular for cases made in isos3, 4 and 11.
DrippingGoofball C wrote:imaginality wrote:And are you complaining about me clearly suspecting 5 people now, when you complained about me having a bunch of weak reads earlier?
Nope, in fact, fifth position means you pretty much won't vote him.
DrippingGoofball D wrote:imaginality wrote: Really? Also, you conveniently ignore the fact this comment on Empking wasin response to Ranmaru asking me my read on Empking.I'm not sure how else I could've answered the question except by saying which position he was at in my list at the time.
It's still a way of saying you won't vote him.
PLUS - Empking was behind "DGB, smalls, Crazy, and kunkstar"(kunkstar being a FORCED scumread at that point, calling him town became untenable), and three players you have CONTINUALLY declared were scum, smalls, Crazy and myself.
DrippingGoofball E wrote:imaginality wrote:I had a "slight town" read on RedCoyote because I've played with him before and felt his play was consistent with here, and he was making sense to me, read-wise. I feel more confident he's town now, not least because of known-town Ranmaru's confidence in his mason buddy's reason for that slot being town. Tarhalindur actually scumhunting helps, too.
And Tar disappeared after the suspicion went away, but you can't change your mind, that's inconsistent, right?
DrippingGoofball F wrote:imaginality wrote:I said 'if' because Idon'tyou're scum. I didn't say "but she can be really helpful as town" because Iknowdid/doyou're scum. Like, I'd probably have said I was 80% sure you're scum. 80% chance of very bad stuff clearly outweighed the 20% chance of very good stuff. If I'd felt more 50-50 about you then I'd have taken your asset-as-town-ness into consideration.think
That's a very scumvenient excuse, you should still have considered the 20% chance.
DrippingGoofball G wrote:You are unvarying in your fake consistency, and your stubborn pushing of a scummy agenda of defending some buddies (kunkstar), bus'ing one (possibly smalls) ans weakly distancing from the third (Empking).
DrippingGoofball H wrote:imaginality wrote:Is that how it's looked? To me, I've wavered in my reads on smalls and Crazy, still find Quilford and Empking tricky to read, and thought Amrun was suspicious for a bit before lately having a townread on her. I've been consistently townreading Ranmaru and Tarhalindur's slot, admittedly.
Oh really. Besides the tiny unvote on Crazy, where have you wavered on smalls? Quilford & Empking tricky to read, that's just keeping YOUR SCUMOPTIONS OPEN, it's not wavering. It's not wavering.
DrippingGoofball I wrote:imaginality wrote:And my read on you has stuck throughout because Pom's scumminess had already dug you into a hole, and since then your play has been based nearly entirely on this:
DGB's scumposting algorithm
1. Roll a D20
2. Act accordingly:
1: threaten to retire
2-5: Scumputer time!
6-8: Insult Ranmaru's intelligence
9-11: Insult the whole town's intelligence
12-13: Predict town loss
14-18: Appeal to emotion
19-20: Fake being hammered
OK, how is that scummy?
(i)I'm insulting Ranmaru-MASON-of-the-godawful-town-reads and offending him at every opportunity, HOW IS THAT SCUMMY?Like, how is this helping my scum goal to survive to endgame, compared to, say, being consistent and (ii) having a lot of vague reads,like you???
(iii)How is the scumputer scummy? I'd like to hear your reasons.
(iv)How is insulting the town's intelligence scummy? Is there a snowball's chance that this will help people get off my back?
(v)How is predicting a town loss scummy?
(vi)How is AtE scummy, are you relying on cheap wikitells?
(vii)How is faking being hammered scummy?
DrippingGoofball J wrote:
Where do you get this roll D20 business - UNLIKE YOU, I change my mind when the evidence is there.
DrippingGoofball K wrote:
AND STILL
I could have frikkin hammered Quilford, he thinks I'm scum, and I'd be out of a pickle. BUT I WANT TO LYNCH SCUMnot save my own KEISTER. Again.
DrippingGoofball L wrote:imaginality wrote:DrippingGoofball wrote:imaginality wrote:smallpeoples343 wrote:Kunkstar... I'd say scum.
And yet you vote DGB 'to be normal and join the others'?
Grr. I still think DGB is scum, and I guess smallpeoples343 could be bussing with this lazy-scummy post. But that's a stretch if DGB is scum GF or other scum PR. I think smallpeople343's post fits more neatly with a DGB town, kunkstar7 + smallpeoples343 scum scenario. The 'vote town but list your buddy as your second (in this game third) suspect' approach.
Taking that into account, I think kunkstar7 should be lynched today ahead of DGB, since he's still scummy under either scenario.
Here, he berates smalls for voting me, and actually considers the possibility that I may be town for a minute, still hanging on to that stupid theory that I'm a GF. Now, even though imaginality has smalls on this scumlist, he is not voting smalls. He's voting me instead, presumably because I'm the key to figure out smalls' alignment, though in his post, the logical step would be the reverse... another logic snag. And yet... as he considers the possibility, at last, that I'm town... he still hangs on to his CONSISTENT STANCE: "I still think DGB is scum" - so despite calling it a stretch in the same sentence, he clearly announces that smalls is frikkin bus'ing me, of all things.
It wasn't my clearest post but basically what I was saying there was:
1. smalls looks scummy, but I don't think he's scum with DGB - it's an either-or deal here
2. so let's lynch kunkstar7 today, because he's also pretty scummy, and could be scum with either of them
3. meanwhile my other vote's on DGB because I think she's scummier than smalls
It is not possible for be to be more town than I am in this game. You don't sound stupid; why you haven't figured out that I'm town leads me to believe that you don't want to read me as town, because as scum, you'd be closing a lynch option for yourself, and you don't want to lynch your buddy Empking.
DrippingGoofball N wrote:imaginality wrote:You claim hammering kunkstar7 without letting him claim was townish. No.
READ MY SIG. It was totally 100% townish. If we were scum together, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would have made him have a fakeclaim ready./wifom. READ MY SIG.
DrippingGoofball O wrote:imaginality wrote:"Woohoo, I'll get myself some townpoints for hammering scum!"
I predicted that I'd come under heavy fire, if not outright lynched, for not letting scum wiggle out of a pickle with a fakeclaim. I predicted that. Such is this town. Anybody would have predicted that it would earn me SCUMpoints, not TOWNcred.I DID IT ANYWAY.
DrippingGoofball P wrote:imaginality wrote:I annoyed DGB-scum by not letting up on trying to get her lynched, some of my earlyish reads were weak rather than strong reads, I weighted conclusions according to likelihood, I used reads of interactions to narrow down scumpairing possibilities, I 'protected' kunkstar7 by... erm... saying we should lynch him and voting for him.
Nice misrep. You only annoyed me this game day after much consideration. I was more annoyed with Ranmaru, and I didn't vote Ranmaru, who survived the night. Most of your readswereweak. The kunkstar vote was a hail-mary vote, you couldn't keep your UNCHANGING stance on kunkstar anymore after that. Your scumpairing possibilities didn't narrow things down, they left things UNCHANGED despite your own fake train of thought. And yet you ask how could a townie possibly know he was scum??? You know I'm town, don't you.
Amrun wrote:Am I a terrible person if I don't read that?
DGB wrote:I'm too exhausted to re-re-re-respond.
And it's mostly the same thing he said in his previous post with different words, more obfuscation, and more obstinacy to stay consistent.
DGB wrote:If you move your Crazy vote to smalls (who you can vote while saving face for consistency), we can have 5 players with 3 votes. Crazy isn't getting lynched anyway, that vote is a complete waste. Exciting race.
kunkstar7 iso3 wrote:Pom: Not particularly thrilled here, the fact that she took an RVS vote and made it serious with only the word "scummmmmy." is sketch. The fact that she mentions two posts later that she has no one better to vote is sad too.
Vote: Pomegranate.
kunkstar7 iso12 wrote:Vote: Pom; Vote: Crazy. Still need to reflect on interactions between flipped players and these two, but they are still my stronger scumreads.
DGB iso6/7 wrote:kunkstar7 > on the defensive [...] Vote: kunkstar7
DGB iso8 wrote: