Mortal Kombat Mafia (Game Over: Mafia Win)

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: Palisade

Amrun is scum, too.

[zMuffinMan]

Hi, catching up

VOTE: T-Bone

^scum

brb 6 pages

[zMuffinMan]

t-bone
cooldog
bogre
weyouns
amrun

I'd be up for voting any of those 5 into the pit with palisade. ftr, I think palisade is town now.

[zMuffinMan]

Im very suspicious of anyone NOT voting for Ludi at this point.

I'm gonna assume you think Ludi is town and Palisade is scum. Why Ludi over someone else?

[zMuffinMan]

Ludi wants it anyways and its too early in the game to turn the tide away from Ludi at this point. Besides, there are no suspects anywhere.

How is this a good reason to put Ludi in the pit?

Also not exactly sure what you mean by

'there are no suspects anywhere'.

[zMuffinMan]

Bogre is just blowing smoke.

Agreed. But I think Bogre is likely scum, so you know... I'd rather see someone like him in the ring than Ludi.

Everyone pretty much recognizes Palisades as scum

Yeah, I was of this opinion, but a reread makes me second guess my scum read on Palisade. I think he's town. And, in hindsight, he got voted into the pit way too easily.

I'd rather go after scum than have Palisade fight Ludi. The only reason I'd consider voting Ludi at this point is if I thought Ludi was scum, and then it would only be to see Ludi die in the pit.

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin looks like scum, white knighting and shit.

No, I'm town, white knighting and shit. I'm going to assume this means you think Palisade is town, right?

[zMuffinMan]

What would be the point of me-as-scum white knighting scum who's likely to be lynched regardless of what I say?

I was really just asking because you're not voting and you haven't really mentioned Palisade at all, other than his claim.

Do you think he's town?

[zMuffinMan]

Reck yesterday: You're wrong about Amrun
Reck today: AMRUN IS SCUM

lol

VOTE: WLC

[zMuffinMan]

Totally. You caught me. I must be scum. It has nothing to do with the fact I called Amrun scum yesterday and you told me I was wrong, and Im totally not noting the irony of this change of opinion. Damn, Im way out of my depth here.

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: Amrun

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: WLC

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: WLC

[zMuffinMan]

Who did you watch last night?

[zMuffinMan]

Why did you watch Fate N1 and who did you watch last night and why?

Just answer the questions.

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: GhostWriter

[zMuffinMan]

MoS, I also think Palisade is town, but if scum have an ability that makes the other person in the ring die, he's probably the best sacrifice for a number of reasons (claimed VT, suspected by a lot of people, etc etc).

I doubt scum do have an ability like this (unless both teams have it, or one team has it and the other has an amazingly powerful ability to balance it), so I don't think it really matters. Or if they do have it, it's probably limited in usage in some way, so if they really want to use it on palisade to save a lurker, good on them.

VOTE: Palisade

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, like I said, I don't think they do have an ability like this, so I don't see the point in fussing about who goes in the ring with GW. GW is the lynch for today. Unless you're voting someone else to make a point of some sort (in which case congratulations, nobody cares), there's no reason not to vote Palisade.

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: GhostWriter

[zMuffinMan]

What's funny is that black dragons don't even consider Cooldog enough of a threat that he should be NKed.

I'm going to assume the fact that he was pierced by shurikens AND had his heart ripped out means that both teams targeted Albert.

Anyway.

VOTE: Bogre

[zMuffinMan]

Nah, Palisades is cool. Pretty sure he's not scum.

ftr, I'd be fine with lynching any of the following:

Nanook('s replacement)
Fonz
IS
Bogre
NC

[zMuffinMan]

Why toog? And what do you think of his claim (and the circumstances around which he claimed)? All I've seen you write about Toog is that he has posted fluff and... you may have quoted one of his posts elsewhere or something.

And I'm going to assume you unintentionally left out Fonz, for whom you've had a major hardon for a while now.

[zMuffinMan]

In other words, he is guessing and is full of shit.

Hi, IS. Meet mastin.

mastin, this is IS.

Now you two have been formally introduced.

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: fonz

[zMuffinMan]

It's like no one likes voting for scum unless there's a guilty report.

derp.

[zMuffinMan]

Because this is his ISO:

Oversoul is scum. Oversoul is scum. Oversoul is scum. Choose WLC. Choose GhostWriter. Oversoul is scum. Oversoul is scum. Oversoul, do something other than weasaling around.

Not exaggerating, that is all Bogre has said all game.

[zMuffinMan]

No, if Oversoul is scum, Bogre is at least not scum of the same faction.

[zMuffinMan]

why toog? vote fonz. do it.

[zMuffinMan]

He happened to guess my alignment.

That's not your "alignment", that's your passive (your alignment would be "town"), and I have no idea why you're ruling out the possibility (read: very likely possibility) that scum have fake claims with this information included. I highly doubt the mod would gimp the scum team/s by not giving them something like that.

I think toog is probably town independent of this, so it doesn't really bother me, but pretty much everything you just wrote is wrong, and pointless.

So.

Why are scum flipping "mafia" instead of specific factions?

[zMuffinMan]

Quote 1 - non-committal fluff designed to look like content - irrelevant to the state of the game in any way
Quote 2 - adds nothing - it's essentially "I don't think we should lynch semi-confirmed Amrun and springlullaby is probably miller" - OK, cool. This doesn't make him town.
Quote 3 - non-committal with Palisade (doesn't say he thinks Palisade is town or anything, just says he wants reasons), and still has a strong hard-on for Oversoul.
Quote 4 - more Oversoul, fencesitting with Fonz/Palisade, and some comment about kiwi that's meaningless.

And those last two quotes are AFTER you called him town, but whatever...

Quote 5 - Why does this make him town?
Quote 6 - This is crap on a sandwich. How does this make him town?

[zMuffinMan]

choose: oversoul

[zMuffinMan]

mercy: oversoul
choose: oversoul

[zMuffinMan]

Has this been explained?

Obviously a limited-shot janitor or some special mechanic that janitors a kill because Albert clearly told us that Fate died N1 (at the hands of GhostWriter).

That the cop kills are mafia and that head burnt is probably vig, even though I don't get why T-Bone.

I actually agree with this. Prior to today, I was working off the assumption that there are two different scum factions (you know, 2 specific millers + 2 specific cops, etc), but this game makes a lot more sense if we assume there's only one scum faction in this game (a combination of black dragon + invaders).

Need to read some stuff.

[zMuffinMan]

Because you weren't as vocal about it.

[zMuffinMan]

I can totally sheep this vote.

VOTE: IS

Didn't like his push on Palisade at all.

[zMuffinMan]

@toog,

tbh, the only thing that really doesn't make sense if there's only one scum team is the double kill flavour on ABR.

But, if we assume that it's a single team and an even-night vig, a whole lot of things start making sense (the missing kills, the choice of kills, the fact that scum is flipping "mafia" instead of a specific faction and the fact that the mod refuses to answer any questions about what this means).

In any case, it's largely irrelevant at the moment. It's just something that made a whole lot of sense to me when I thought about it.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, I toyed with the idea that it was colour-coded, but here's the thing....

Assume Kira is Black Dragon and Shao Khan is Invader... Why are both their role flips #BF0000? Sure, their names are individually colour-coded (as is every other name), but roles seem to share the same colour code based on alignment. So why are opposite factions flipping the same colour code?

[zMuffinMan]

I'm running on the assumption that Shao and Kira are both Black Dragon, and the other faction hasn't flipped yet. Is there something wrong with that assumption?

It doesn't make sense flavour-wise. Shao Kahn is not a part of the Black Dragon syndicate.

[zMuffinMan]

Nero vs IS in the pit today would make me very, very happy.

If he is scum, he would of course have known that Palisades was town, and he was Pal's only defender.

Well, if you're working on the assumption that there are two scum factions, then no, he would not have known that Palisades is town. And as far as I can tell, you still are working under that assumption, aren't you? Which makes this a very interesting thing to say.

Also, MoS wasn't Palisade's "only defender". I've been calling him town for most of the game. Admittedly, I wasn't as vocal about it because after a while it all seemed to fall on deaf ears, but still... point is, you can't really attack MoS for this.

And I'm more inclined to believe that scum was in the people who were, say, pushing an alternate lynch without being vocal about Palisade being town (for example, Bogre, who never gave his own read on Palisade, but was going on about how he didn't see the case and didn't like so many people jumping on Palisade, etc etc, standard scum reaction to a town-wagon his buddies are pushing).

Yet kira is conf black dragon, and shao khan flipped the same color as her. They're most likely on the same team, one faction or two factions.

Yeah, that's the point I've been trying to make since the start of the day. Everything points towards there being a single scum team (consisting of Invaders - e.g. Shao Kahn - and Black Dragons - e.g. Kira) and an even-night vig, except for the kill flavour on ABR.

[zMuffinMan]

If you think the Palisade wagon was scum driven, then why not vote for one of the people who was actually driving the wagon? (hint:

vote IS

)

[zMuffinMan]

Everyone's name flipped a different colour. But everyone's role was specifically colour-coded based on their alignment. I think I already covered this. ;/

As for whether it makes sense flavour-wise for there to be a single scum team, I'd say it does make sense. If, for example, you assume this is a mix of several storylines, it's entirely possible that Kano, and therefore the rest of the Black Dragons, are working under Shao Kahn in an invasion of Earthrealm.

Also wouldn't say it's entirely useless flavour speculation, because if it is a single scum team, then, for example, all the links between Amrun and WLC that suddenly disappeared because she was investigated as a non-BD begin to make a lot more sense.

[zMuffinMan]

ftr, I'd be willing to drop this speculation until we see another scum flip, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in assuming that every single player's name is individually colour-coded and there's no real underlying meaning behind it.

[zMuffinMan]

Do you deny that he was very obviously misrepresenting me? There is no way in a billion years what he said was a scumslip actually was. Do you deny that his scumlists seem to have been very, very inaccurate?

How much experience do you have playing with mastin?

Also, in regards to CSL.

iirc, #844 was a response to me saying something about Bogre v Oversoul. There are a couple reasons I don't think this is very meaningful.

1) I think Bogre is scum, so yay, anyone else who thinks this is good in my books as long as they eventually help me get Bogre lynched at some point in time.
2) I'm going to play the "too scummy to be scum" card here. That was an utterly stupid statement for CSL-scum to make. I also read it as somewhat genuine suspicion, and the derpness in not realising the implication (that Bogre is scum either way) isn't something I'm looking at too deeply right now. At least for today, I'm mostly going to ignore her because there are far bigger fish to fry.

Would you be willing to compromise on a NC or IS or even a Bogre wagon? (

what is your read on them?

)

--

Also I'd like Muffinman and MOS to explain their positioning on the Oversoul wagon.

What?

[zMuffinMan]

You mean what I my thoughts on Oversoul? Town. Explanation? I think he's town. The whole "gambit" mistake and the ensuing posts from him read as genuine. People who I think are scum jumped on it. No surprises there.

My thoughts on the people on his wagon? I have no strong feelings that any of you are town. It's unlikely that all three of you are scum, though. kiwi is probably town, just bad.

[zMuffinMan]

@NC,

It was meaningless reaffirmation that I'd much rather an Oversoul lynch than a Palisade lynch, when given a choice between the two. It had nothing to do with position on the wagon.

Besides that,

It very much looks like you, and Muffin were changing wagon position to be the hammer vote.

... makes no sense, unless you're suggesting we could hammer while already being on the wagon or something?

You're really, really confused about something.

[zMuffinMan]

@amrun,

Why?

@fonz

In regard to CSL, she's been around for too long for me to believe she's that level of derp. I think she was trying to throw suspicion on already-suspected Bogre, but then left herself an out in case he was rival scum. She jumped a popular wagon in Pali with no real reasoning in the first place, then she was ok with putting Oversoul in 'so long as Palisade dies' then she flip-flopped between them and now Oversoul is apparently scum because Palisade was town, or something. It's just scumtacular.

I don't think the length of time someone has been around is a measure of anything.

I can see how you came to the conclusions you came to, I just completely disagree that was CSL's intent. At the time, reading it in context, I thought it was CSL looking at what I said and considering possibilities, not really setting anything up.

I agree the Palisade/Oversoul flip-flopping when they were in the ring was a bit weird, though. CSL is still way down on my want-to-lynch list, though.

pedit: will respond to that soon, but I never said you were "coasting", I said I didn't like your push on Palisade. I also didn't like your D1 "

hey guys, let's shove Ludi in the pit with Palisade NOW. Anyone not doing this is suspicious

" crap.

[zMuffinMan]

*gasp*

No...

Anything but that, please...

Spare me.

PLEASE

[zMuffinMan]

I made a rock solid case on Palisades. He was ignoring lurkers, making bullshit lists and making weak desperation cases on me.

This is far from a rock-solid case.

I was damn happy when he got lynched.

Yes, I know. That's why I'm currently voting for you.

Because Mastin decided to screw up his game and flipped town? You think that makes ME look bad?

Yes. I think your case on mastin was craptastic. It didn't seem genuine. It felt like IS-scum trying way too hard to lynch mastin.

At first I was thinking that Muffin was the scumbag for the silly sheeping.
Or MoS is also making bullshit lists and floating around like a vulture in order to see if this little wagon on me gets any traction.
Or Toog for doing the same thing as MoS.
Or maybe Fonz for making bullshit mini-lists and narrowing down from a pre-prepared field. But at least Fonz looks like he is scumhunting.

Is this one of them "bullshit lists" you were attacking mastin for making?

Or was he doing something different to this?

Oh hey, Ludi was all over Palisades shit too, and he didnt even have a case other than being Ludistradamus.

This is actually the reason I think you're more likely scum than Ludi. You felt the need to have lots of (poor) justification for your vote. Ludi didn't.

Ludi is probably CR but that can wait until tomorrow.

Muffin, if you dont like my push on Palisade, why do you insist on getting on your knees and gobbling Ludi over his?

Because I enjoy the taste. Problem?

I don't think I said anything about Ludi's push on mastin prior to this post. I don't think it was scum-motivated, though. I think yours was. That's why in a nutshell.

Did you even look at his ISO before you screamed Leroooooooy Jeeeeenkins and started coming after me?

Yes. I don't think he's anywhere near as likely to be scum as you are. And threatening to go after me when you're done with Ludi means nothing to me, but does make me raise an eyebrow.

Are you saying that you're going to be going after me regardless of whether Ludi is town or scum, or are you saying that you're really, realy sure Ludi is scum and I'm scum with him, or what?

Read again, none of you are suspects except for Ludi.

Well, shit. It's good to know you intend to go after someone who's not even a suspect of yours when you're done with Ludi.



---------------

It's basically taking a pretty mediocre suspicion as a base (Pushing for Palisade lynch) and then repeatedly poking him with sticks to see what he'll do.

eh, it's not so much "pushing for a palisade lynch" as it is the way in which he did it.

Poking him with a stick seems to at least be getting a reaction. Do you have a problem with this? I have a stick here with your name on it if you'd like to join in on the fun. It's like poking animals except this one can speak human.



---------------

Anyways,

These people are town:

Nacho
GI
MoS
Toogeloo
Oversoul

And these people are scum:

IS
Bogre
NC

And everyone else falls somewhere in the middle. I don't feel great about Amrun. I think kiwi is really dumb but I don't think that makes him scum. Ludi, Darox, CSL, Fonz; I don't see myself pursuing any of their lynches today, they get to be temporarily town.

[zMuffinMan]

Hey. We should play a game. Scum posts then town posts then scum posts then town posts and so on and so forth and we do it like this for the rest of the game.

IS has started so I'll be the town post. Then Bogre can be the post after me.

[zMuffinMan]

Ludi simply decrees Palisades was scum, repeats it over and over again with no reasoning or case in points for 30+ posts, but thats perfectly townie and kosher.

Yes.

IS examines what palisades is doing, analyses it, deems it to be scummy actions, lays the explanations out, further explains them, but thats what scum incarnate do?

That is the gist of it. You catch on fast.

You do understand how ridiculous that sounds, right?

I don't. See, I know, in your mind, you think that you look pro-town or something, because you had a 'good reason' to be voting palisades, and you justified it over and over again, saying he must be scum and all the evidence points towards it, etc etc. But here's the thing. It looked like scum trying way too hard to justify a poor vote.

Why I don't think what Ludi did was necessarily scummy: Because I didn't see the same need to justify his thoughts. I didn't see the same "he's done this and that and he must be scum!" He just came across as a townie who was confident in his read, albeit wrong.

From the flip, you should be able to determine who weakly and strongly pushed the lynch, who weakly or strongly defended him, who busts out with inconsistencies, you analyze the wagon, etc etc. You know, SCUMHUNTING.

So what's your opinion on the Palisades wagon then, apart from Ludi being obvscum? Which pushes were weak, which pushes were strong, which defences were weak, which defences were strong, and what does this mean? Are you going to do any... you know... SCUMHUNTING? Is Ludi a one-man team who orchestrated the Palisades lynch with 8 or so townies?

Or does scum hunting only work when Ludi is lynched?

Sorry, I'm new to this whole concept. You'll have to teach me the ropes.

Mr Muffin and Ludi are advocating "gut reactions" but wrapping them up in this thin veil of logic and reasoning that doesnt exist.

I don't think I ever pretended that gut wasn't a major part of the reason I think you're scum. Gut tells me that your push on Palisades was bullshit. Gut tells me you're scum. That is, at least initially, why I voted you. I'm not thinly veiling anything.

[zMuffinMan]

@IS,

1) I'm not asking you to tell me the entire scum team (although you're free to give up your teammates if you want). I'm asking you to analyse that Palisades wagon and tell me who's scum on it (apart from Ludi) and why. Since you claim you hunt scum by analysing wagons, surely this isn't too big an ask.

2) You use "logic" and "reasoning" and that same logic and reason indicated that mastin must be scum, right? And you're telling me your method of scum hunting is somehow superior or something? When Ludi flips scum will you be screaming, "nuh uh, I'm not scum, it must be muffin! Look at him, he doesn't rely completely on 'logic'!!!!"?

3) You're acting like I have some connection to Ludi other than his vote also being on you. I don't. He happens to think you're scum. I happen to think you're scum. I don't happen to think he's as likely to be scum as you are. It's as simple as that. You asked for an explanation for why I think this way, I told you, and now I'm strongly attaching myself to Ludi because I explained it. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

4) I'll play along with you for a minute. Hypothetically, suppose you were scum, would you play in a way that you perceive is pro-town? For example, would you use "logic" and "reasoning" to push cases for mislynches? If so, how would I, a mere pleb in comparison to the scum hunting king that you are, determine the difference between your play as scum and your play as town?

[zMuffinMan]

when ludi flips town*, even. I shouldn't post just after I wake up.

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin is just out for blood

True. This fits my MO with how I've played the rest of this game. Bloodthirsty, without a care for finding scum. I just want people dead.

Im not switching my vote off LudiScum.

I'll tell you what...

If you were willing to vote for, say, obvscum-Nero, then I'd consider moving my vote from you to him as well.

Because if we're not lynching you today, and people don't seem to want to lynch Bogre for some absurd reason, Nero is a reasonable compromise.

What are your thoughts on Nero?

----

@Darox,

Nero thoughts?

[zMuffinMan]

ebwop: Nero is

the only

reasonable compromise.

Lost my train of thought half-way through writing that sentence.

[zMuffinMan]

Of course I understand that we could only do one or the other but if you had a town read on both, what made you decide that a OS lynch would be better?

Because I could only choose one or the other.......................

Really, I initially thought "fuck it, I'm not even going to choose one of them" and I ignored this thread for like the first 24 hours or so after it went into choosing stage. Then I thought about it, realised that even though I thought both of them were town, Oversoul was probably less useful to town (yeah, I actually think

mastin

is more useful than Oversoul) and decided if one of them had to go, it should be Oversoul.

thoughts on MOS?

Town

The IS wagon is scummy as fuck.

Internet Stranger (5) - Magister Ludi, zMuffinMan, Amrun, Mastermind of Sin, CSL

Why?

[zMuffinMan]

btw, when Nero flips scum, and people begin to realise that there actually is only one scum team, CSL and Oversoul are 100% town.

[zMuffinMan]

HAHAHAHA, DID YOU JUST SAY... YOU THINK AN ENTIRE 4-MAN SCUM TEAM IS ON IS?

[zMuffinMan]

I feel bad that the scum drew a CSL/Nero/Kiwi team, but hey, that's the RNG.

replace Nero with Amrum and Kiwi with MOS and add in Muffin and you gots your team.

[zMuffinMan]

Jesus Christ, I spit up the tea I'm drinking when I first read that. Screen was covered in saliva and tea. Awesome.

There are 4 scummy as fuck players and 1 idiot.

Is Ludi the idiot?

And, assuming you think the scum team is CSL/Amrun/MoS/Muffin, where does Oversoul come into this?

As for why I think MoS is town, it's because, quite simply, he is. Do I really need to go into specifics here?

[zMuffinMan]

More to the point, at what point did you begin to suspect a CSL/Amrun/MoS/Muffin scum team and why? Like, I haven't even seen you mention me prior to now. Have I always been a suspect of yours?

[zMuffinMan]

@ IS,

Put your vote on Nero in your next post and help me get him lynched and I'll leave you alone today.

Just read over Nero again in ISO. I'll cut off my wang and eat it if Nero flips town. No jokes.

[zMuffinMan]

I think you're wrong. Or scum.

If I realllllllllllllllllly need to make a case on Nero, I will. But not tonight, tired. Tomorrow, though. He is scum.

And I planned to do some sort of VCA, but I haven't got around to it yet. For my own reference if I ever get around to it... #76, #176, #817, #921

[zMuffinMan]

it doesn't clear either of them from not being scum.

It does, when you realise that Nero's scum meta is to tunnel townies until he absolutely

must

mention his teammates to avoid suspicion.

[zMuffinMan]

I forgot about this game. Prod dodge. Reading stuff tomorrow. Also,

Unvote

VOTE: Nero

Seems to be the cool thing to do now.

[zMuffinMan]

If Palisade hadn't been lynched yesterday, people would have tried to lynch him again today. Oversoul wasn't lynched yesterday, and no one is really pursuing that wagon anymore today. Why?

People

were

trying to pursue the Oversoul wagon at the start of today (he was the largest wagon at the start of today). It just didn't happen because there were other suspicions (e.g. IS, CSL) that cropped up.

This is the correct answer:

Oversoul was town and mafia simply didn't care who got lynched

*this is a prod dodge with promises to stop being lazy later tonight*

[zMuffinMan]

OK, well I'm perfectly fine with deadlining a showdown between Nero and CSL.

I'll obviously be voting Nero and I'll get a case up in the next couple hours before this goes to choosing stage (probably won't be online again before the deadline, just past midnight where I live and I'm sleeping probably until the deadline...)

[zMuffinMan]

Incoming wall.

Apologies for the length, but apparently some people like "cases", and as much as I hate writing them, I figured I may as well do one for the people that want it.

For those that don't, I'll include a tl;dr so you can scroll down to the end. Long story short, I think every... single... post from Nero is scummy, and here's why...

#39: Pointless fucking post. At this point, cooldog already had a substantial wagon on him. What does Nero do? Durrrrrrr don't mess with mastin, and don't mind me while I'm not providing any content. I'll put a useless vote on Fate and avoid doing anything meaningful.

#143: ... the fuck is this? More durrrrrrrr shit that was ignored in the midst of "scummier" stuff that happened D1.

Wooooooooooo skipping on to D3 because there's absolutely no content from him before D3.

#688: Pointless crap about MoS being spring's buddy if spring is scum, and pointless crap about lurkers (showing a bit of cognitive dissonance here?)

So, up until this point, NC has managed to get by without having anything to say on this game apart from thinking that MoS is scum if Spring is, but hey,

NO ACTUAL SUSPICION OF SPRING

. No reads. No nothing. I

guess

this is kind of understandable if you think that maybe he was waiting until after the conf-scum lynches were over to give his reads, but then why the fuck did he bring up the thing with spring-MoS? And that whole part about lurkers was just plain weird.

So, skipping ahead to D4...

#756: Ah. His first scum read of the game? Maybe? But only because Oversoul's posts irk him. For some unexplained reason. Yeah... And apparently the "lurkish" nature of T-Bone and timeater is something that he hates.................................. fucking facepalm

#865: OK, it looks like his hatred for T-Bone's "lurkish nature" has turned into full-blown suspicion of T-Bone. Let's look at why... Because he attacked Snake(CSL) for not contributing to discussion... and because he didn't vote Snake in his first post of the day. And this is apparently proof that T-Bone is scum... Ah. Understandable. OK, that makes perfect sense. SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU VOTE PALISADE INTO THE RING WITH OVERSOUL WHEN ALL YOU'VE SAID ABOUT OVERSOUL ALL GAME IS ONE LINE (THAT HE IRKS YOU)? WHERE'S THE FUCKING OVERSOUL CASE?

Sifting through more pointless crap from Nero, we reach D5.

So what does Nero do D5?

He starts by telling us that Oversoul should have been lynched yesterday in #1009.

He moves on to telling us that Nacho's scum meta is to defend his scum buddies (let's just ignore the fact that Nacho is voting Nero and pretend this isn't blatantly an OMGUS FoS) in #1056. There's also his first expression of suspicion of CSL and a request for MoS and I to explain the whole unvote/vote thing we were doing during the choosing stage of D4 (which was entirely irrelevant and a moot point to pick on when he could... Oh, I don't know, ACTUALLY HUNT SCUM). This pointless lack of scum hunting continues in #1060 and #1063 (and it's ironic that he talks about his job being scumhunting in #1063 when it's 1000 posts into the game and he's yet to actually do any). Oh wait, he kind of asks a question of Nacho in #1064 that could maybe be possibly sort of construed as scum hunting? Maybe? More likely it was a "hey, go look elsewhere!" plea.

Oh, cool, we finally have a sort of case on Oversoul from Nero in #1065. Let's see...
- He buddies (that's pretty damning, I've never seen town do that).
- He has no original reads (well, at least he has reads... but really, why is this even scummy?)
- Something about him being stupid?
- Something about him trying too hard? (actually this spoiler wall is golden, because Nero tries to imply that Oversoul claimed scum/third party... Holy fuck)
- Something about misc stuff (again, this spoiler wall is golden. misrep about Oversoul apparently trying to discredit the GW wagon by asking why Albert didn't claim D2, as though that wasn't a legitimate question. something about Oversoul being V/LA and still posting being scummy. some bullshit about OS's pali read. some bullshit about an admission of guilt. some bullshit about rolefishing when he wasn't even rolefishing)

See, if this was a case on IS, IS would be having a field day with Nero. But nope, it's a case on Oversoul, a relatively weak player (no offense). And people are ignoring it even though Nero is scum hunting a weak player for a mislynch because they can't read Oversoul as town for some reason.

Moving on to #1123... We have Nero claiming he's not tunneling Oversoul (lol), Nero attacking Oversoul for more meaningless shit... maybe some sort of suspicion of MoS? And we finish off this post with his reads

I would very much like any combination of Oversoul/CSL/MOS in the ring today.I feel those are the three most likely scum.

I also have scum suspicions on Toog/Darox/Amrun/Fonz.

For the record, he hasn't mentioned any of his other "scum suspicions" at any point in the game prior to this. No talking to them, no talking about them, no nothing. But anyway, that's not what's important. It's what he does with these suspicion and where they disappear to later on (because I don't fucking know what happened between here and the next time he gives his list of scum suspects).

#1163 we have Nero continuing his attack on MoS, this time claiming that because MoS did not vote for IS when he initially had a scum read on IS, MoS is scummy. For the people who are really slow........... MoS was already voting another of his suspicions (Fonz). And some more crap about OS. Woo, getting tired of this OS shit, actually.

#1196: Well, fuck... It only took him 1200 posts to do something that looks like he is possibly scum hunting. Sort of, maybe? Some questions, but as of yet, I've seen him do nothing with the answers.

#1204 OK, so 81 posts after his #1123. Let's take a look at how his reads list has changed.

I feel bad that the scum drew a CSL/Nero/Kiwi team, but hey, that's the RNG.

replace Nero with Amrum and Kiwi with MOS and add in Muffin and you gots your team.

Wait a second... Where did I come into this? Hmmm... I think I've seen that list of people somewhere before... That looks like a list of people that have expressed suspicion of Nero. And, hey, would you look at this...

Internet Stranger (5) - Magister Ludi, zMuffinMan, Amrun, Mastermind of Sin, CSL

I've already sort of covered why I find this fucking hilarious, but what happened to Toog/Darox/Fonz from #1123? Or why did he even suspect them in the first place?

There's also some other meaningless crap about Oversoul in #1204, but I think I'm beginning to sound like a broken record attacking Nero for this. He's tunneling a weak and easy target. It's disgustingly scummy.

#1206 I... I don't even... What... What is this?

I'm thinkin' one scum faction with 1-2 independent SKs or a SK team like the one seen Road to WrestleMania Mafia

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Baffling. Simply baffling.

Moving on to #1220... Apppppppparently, OS i giving him SK vibes (whatever the fuck SK vibes are and however the fuck he is supposedly getting these vibes). And some bullshit about how if there's 7 scum in the game, it's plausible that he's caught 5 of them (with 4 of the IS wagon...) derpderpderpderpderpderpderp

#1223 is pointless.

#1226 lollllllllllllllllllllllllllll Ludi has apparently gone from idiotic town to scum or something

#1236 and #1238 woooooo, ad hom is what cool kids do.

#1263 Some bullshit justification for his suspicion of MoS and I. Yeah, apparently I only think he's scum because he suspects MoS. Totally didn't think he was scum way back in #744 or anything. Nah, that was just me listing him there because I thought there was a good chance he's town and I wanted to lynch him anyway.

And there's nothing worth mentioning in the rest of his ISO (oh look, he attacks OS again, this time for not being active in this game, wooooooo, more shit to add to the "not even slightly valid case on OS" file).



TL;DR

HE'S SCUM
LYNCH HIM

And when he flips scum, know that Oversoul is TOWN, CSL is TOWN, and Ludi is also probably TOWN, as is MoS (but he's town anyway).

Please don't lynch CSL when he goes into the ring with Nero. CSL is an obvious mislynch and quite clearly a counter-wagon to Nero-scum. Kill Nero today.

And if I die tonight, hang Bogre tomorrow in my absence if I'm right about Nero.

That's all I ask.

[zMuffinMan]

He's town because Nero is scum. It's more like "CSL is not scum of the same faction as Nero" than "CSL is town". If there's a single scum faction and no third parties, then I think CSL is town after a Nero scum flip.

Yeah, I know. CSL is lurking. CL is "opportunistic". That's why he's a good counter-wagon for scum to be on. He's an easy lynch.

[zMuffinMan]

And also the composition of that CSL wagon.

CSL (7) - The Fonz, Darox, GreyICE, Toogeloo, Internet Stranger, Bogre, Nero Cain

No. If CSL was scum and Nero was a mislynch, half of those people would be on Nero.

[zMuffinMan]

I find Nero scummy, but there's some evidence of the possibility of actual scumhunting there, no?

No.

Unless you count his push for Oversoul's lynch.

He asks some questions here and there, but nothing that could really be considered "scum hunting" because he does absolutely nothing with the answers, he pursues none of his "scum suspects" apart from Oversoul, is "scum suspects" have a tendency to vastly change for unknown reasons with no explanation.

CSL just slips one vote after another onto a growing wagon and hopes no-one notices.

At least you can tell where CSL's suspicions lie.

I'd even argue CSL has done a bit more in the way of scum hunting because I can clearly see what his suspicions really are, even if I don't like some aspects of his play.

Regardless, point isn't about who's done more in the way of scum hunting, it's about who's actually scum.

And I'm not overly concerned with getting "he"/"she" right.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the people doing less scum hunting are necessarily scum. There are other ways to get reads on people (and I know you know this because you have a town read on Oversoul for sort of the same reason as I do, even though he hasn't done all too much in the way of scum hunting in this game, at least not that I can recall).

I do not have any strong feelings that CSL is town independent of Nero (although the lack of effort is something I'd describe as more likely to come from lazy town than lazy scum, because lazy scum still needs to try and look town), but if Nero is scum, I'm 99.999% certain that CSL is town, or at least not scum of the same faction as Nero. This is based entirely on Nero's posts, it has nothing to do with what I think of CSL's posts.

But you think Nero is likely scum anyway, right? Do you have an issue with lynching Nero over CSL? And then maybe reconsidering CSL if Nero flips scum?

The gender thing wasn't a deliberate point. It was more that I'd already written "he"/"his" a few times in the post, realised it when I got to the end, and couldn't be bothered to go back and change it.

[zMuffinMan]

I take back what I said about Oversoul not scum hunting. Brief skimming of his ISO reveals he's done more scum hunting than CSL and Nero combined. Regardless, you don't have a town read on Oversoul because of his scum hunting.

[zMuffinMan]

Well, let's look at this. He voted Amrun D1.

Um, no, he first voted Amrun on like D2 or D3, whenever Amrun was the wagon that was going to compete with one of the scum wagons. His D1 posts were "vote fate lolol fate vs cooldog" then "vote spring lolol spring vs palisade" and nothing else. A minor point, but yeah, it's not like he voted Amrun D1 prior to the info lynches happening.

Goes after Oversoul, pushes him from there. His other suspect was T-Bone, who died overnight, so obviously that suspicion has gone.

Right, but if we're looking at it in terms of "scum hunting", his vote on Oversoul on D4 was because Oversoul irked him - nothing else. I don't see how you think this is at all different to what CSL is doing.

He had given far more in the way of reasons to want to lynch T-Bone than Oversoul (even though those reasons were craptastic), yet he was content with forcing a Palisade vs Oversoul fight, having done absolutely nothing that you would consider scum hunting up to that point.

This is everything before D5.

D5:

also points up MOS and CSL as scummy and gives reasons.

No.

I don't recall him ever giving reasons for thinking CSL is scummy. Maybe I missed it. But it was basically "I find CSL scummy" and then he continues to call her scummy.

As for his suspicion of MoS, it's based entirely on the fact that MoS did not vote for IS when he first expressed suspicion of IS, which makes absolutely no sense because MoS was voting for you at the time. It's essentially like him suggesting you'd be scummy if you voted for him because you didn't vote for him when you first expressed suspicion of him. It's not a valid point. It's not scum hunting. It's doing the sort of misrepresenting that made you want to lynch Palisade.

Shifts later in the day when it's obvious there isn't going to be an Oversoul wagon but there might well be one on secondary suspect CSL, which is good town play.

Um... NO.

He voted for LUDI, who he had called IDIOTIC TOWN for the entire day. Then he shifted to CSL in recent posts.

[zMuffinMan]

#1226 - Ludi - who he'd insisted was idiotic town and hasn't expressed any suspicion of whatsoever the entire game
#1263 - Oversoul again
#1294 - i.e. the previous page when it's fairly obvious that this is going to be CSL vs Nero - he votes for CSL.

That's not town play. Don't even pretend it is.

[zMuffinMan]

These are all the posts Nero mentions CSL

#1056 - no reason, just "CSL is pretty scummy"
#1123 - again, no reason
#1163 - again, no reason
#1196 - still no reason, sensing a pattern though... Not entirely sure what that pattern is but I'll tell you when I'm done
#1206 - still no reason
#1207 - still no reason
#1214 - still no reason
#1220 - still no reason
#1226 - still no reason
#1294 - Oh here's a rea- HAHA JUST KIDDING, still no reason

[zMuffinMan]

Fonz, if you get time before the choosing stage, just go through my wall on the previous page. It's not *that* long, probably a 5 minute read at most. It tells you everything about why you're wrong if you're even considering the possibility that Nero is town, and if you don't agree with it, I want to know why.

I'll do a short version if you want.

These are the people he's expressed suspicion of this game:

Oversoul, T-Bone, Amrun, MoS, CSL, Toogeloo, Fonz, Darox, Muffin, Ludi

These are the people he's given reasons for:

Oversoul, T-Bone, MoS

These are the people who were a scum read at one point but he's completely forgotten about with no explanation:

Toogeloo, Fonz, Darox

These are the people he has given valid reasons for suspecting:



And yeah, that's pretty much a summary of his scum hunting so far.

[zMuffinMan]

No, that's my argument against you telling me that he's been scum hunting. That shit is specifically in response to your #1309.

My argument for why he's scum is that when he does give reasons (for example, Oversoul, MoS, T-Bone) the reasons are laughable, and his lines of thought are scummy because he's inconsistent and hypocritical. Well, that's in a nutshell, if you want elaboration, go to the wall.

[zMuffinMan]

Nero encompasses everything you thought made Palisade "scummy" and more.

You've only ignored it because Palisade was doing it to you and Nero has been doing it to Oversoul and a couple others.

[zMuffinMan]

I recall you saying something about Palisade being scummy because he misrepresented you, right? Nero has directly misrepresented Oversoul on more than one occasion. For example, this is part of his original "case" against Oversoul in #1065:

- Something about him trying too hard? (actually this spoiler wall is golden, because Nero tries to imply that Oversoul claimed scum/third party... Holy fuck)
- Something about misc stuff (again, this spoiler wall is golden. misrep about Oversoul apparently trying to discredit the GW wagon by asking why Albert didn't claim D2, as though that wasn't a legitimate question. something about Oversoul being V/LA and still posting being scummy. some bullshit about OS's pali read. some bullshit about an admission of guilt. some bullshit about rolefishing when he wasn't even rolefishing)

I am not making any of this up. He tried to get away with saying that Oversoul claimed third party/scum, he tried to get away with other misreps like Oversoul supposedly trying to discredit the wagon on GhostWriter... Read the last to spoiler walls in that post.

His other arguments against Oversoul are no more valid.

It amazes me that you think Palisade's arguments were less valid than Nero's.

Do you fully understand why he thinks MoS is scum?

Anyway, I'm going to sleep now and I won't be on again before choosing stage begins if this gets deadlined into a Nero vs CSL match.

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: Nero

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: Nero Cain

[zMuffinMan]

CHOOSE: NERO CAIN

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: Nero

[zMuffinMan]

No. IS vs Nero should be the day's match.

You should just lay down and die. It would make this game so much easier for me.

[zMuffinMan]

If I had potential to NK you, Nero, you'd be dead.

Anyone wanna help me out with some setup speculation?

We've had two black dragon flips (Kira + Kano), one invader flip (Shao Kahn), they've all flipped "mafia", same colour, nothing denoting different factions.

Ludi was pierced by shurikens last night. Albert was also pierced by shurikens. Shurikens only on odd nights, burn victims on even nights. Maybe a 2-man SK team? One an even night killer, one an odd night killer? I originally thought maybe the burner was an even night vig because I could potentially see those shots coming from a vig, maaaaaaybe.

Is 17:6:2?

--------

Anyway, might as well tackle Nero's wall of bullshit now.

Was tentative about voting GW.

Well, this should actually point to me being far less likely to be scum... Correct move for scum isn't questioning a claimed watcher when he's caught your buddy... Just sayin.

Wich is a huge contradiction b/c his case on me is basicly "Nero doesn't explain his reads" Muffin hasn't explained a single read beyond me.

On the contrary, I didn't even have an issue with the fact that you're not explaining your reads. I even go as far as to say. in #1297 that I really don't think it's important that you didn't explain some of your reads. The point about you not explaining your reads is that Fonz was suggesting that you were actually scum hunting and giving reasons for your reads when you simply weren't. Personally, I couldn't give two shits about whether you explained them, my issue with your reads has nothing to do with lack of explanations.

Why only them? If your premise is "Nero is scum therefore he's attacking town" Why are Amrun and MOS excluded from this list?

Should they have been in my list?

LOOK AT THE SCUMSLIP GUYS!!! Somehow he knows that I'm tunneling a townie.

[CSL] being an EZ lynch//=town.

It does when he's a counterwagon to you.

[zMuffinMan]

If Nero is town, he's dead weight. I'll be money on all his suspects flipping town. And I bet if he wrote a town list, it would be mostly filled with scum.

That said...

Nero, who do you think is town?

I want to lynch from that list today, if we're not lynching you.

[zMuffinMan]

bet money*

[zMuffinMan]

I like part of Nero's idea that Ludi wasn't the only scum on Stranger

Ludi has like what? 3 partners still alive at most? I don't think it's entirely impossible for his partners to have distance from Ludi, especially if they'd already committed to attacking one or both of CSL and Oversoul. If IS is town (or, more specifically, not scum of the same faction as Ludi), I don't particularly see Amrun (as Ludi's buddy) thinking it was a good idea to help Ludi attack IS when there was a veritable smorgasbord of mislynches available. Like, it's possible I guess, but even apart from the fact that I was on that wagon, I'd look at the people who were either trying to discredit the townies on the wagon (e.g. Nero) or someone like Darox, who's just been generally useless for most of the game and insisted that he never "felt" or "saw" the IS wagon, which may very well have been because Ludi was driving it.

One thing in particular that started to bug me on reread was Amrun's continued insistence that she is Town based on a non-Black Dragon scan. It seems she is pushing a bit too hard on my reread, and that she is either Invader or SK trying to constantly show innocence.

I had similar misgivings but I thought about it, and while I'm still mildly suspicious of Amrun, I could see Amrun-as-town saying the same sort of things. At the very least, I think there are better places to look for scum than Amrun today.

[zMuffinMan]

OK. That's great.

Who's scum, Darox?

[zMuffinMan]

The only town reads of mine that are still alive are Toogeloo, Oversoul, GI and Nacho (though my GI and Nacho reads come from their predecessors because they themselves have done almost nothing in this game).

Everyone else is somewhere between null and scum.

I want to chuck Nero and IS in the ring today and see what happens. I'm pretty sure Darox and Bogre are scum of some sort, too. Fonz, too, maybe. Amrun is on the townier side of my null reads. kiwieagle is a VI and I can't read him.

[zMuffinMan]

why do you think an K, vig or rival scum team would target Ludi over you?

[zMuffinMan]

You plus everyone below Bogre in the player list works well. Including Bogre, that is.

So. Are you going to put a vote on someone or be less useless than you've been all game long at any time in the near future?

[zMuffinMan]

OK.

When you're done finding the real scum, tell me.

btw, what do you think the setup is? 2 scum teams? Or 1 scum team plus SK? Or 1 scum team plus multiple SKs? Or something else entirely?

[zMuffinMan]

Pretty sure Kiwi is town, he's just really trying to help scum. Unless #1394 was acting (and, quite frankly, I don't see kiwi-scum being able to come up with something that astonishingly bad), he's town.

Although, interestingly, his thoughts about IS as SK are in line with mine.

8. Nachomamma8
10. GreyICE
13. The Fonz
15. kiwieagle
16. Internet Stranger
17. Bogre
18. Toogeloo

Yeah, we really should be lynching from Nero's town list.

IS, Bogre, Fonz and Nero himself are all great candidates to put in the ring today.

I didn't really like Timeater's play, but nacho made the slot look better. And I also don't like Kiwieagle's play. In fact, I am willing to bet that your benefactor, IS, is someone who has done very little scumhunting for themselves.

if they truly believed you, they would simply vote for Ludi the next day and go with their own reads for a nightkill and the first person to come to mind is Kiwi with that regard.

Dude, you're so close, but so far. There is no 'benefactor'.

[zMuffinMan]

Hey GI, vote Nero.

[zMuffinMan]

I think Fonz is scum, so yeah, I guess so.

Have you got around to finding the "real scum" yet?

[zMuffinMan]

............................... Goddammit, if you're not scum, you're stupid.

Nero, let's play a game. For the duration of this game, I'm going to assume you're town, and you can assume that I'm town, too. Now, I'm thinking we're looking at 5 anti-town players remaining (probably 3 mafia and 2 SKs who shoot on even/odd nights). So today is a very important day because we need a scum lynch if town wants any chance of winning (unless I'm wrong about the numbers). Now let's also assume that Oversoul is 100% town, no questions asked. And that IS is 100% scum, and he is the SK who was responsible for the Ludi kill last night because he thought it would earn him town cred (lol benefactor lol lol lol lol). Put those two aside for now. I want you to tell me which 4 players would be scum and why.

In the spirit of this game, I'll start by giving my own thoughts. I think Fonz is responsible for the burn kills and yesterday I was considering the possibility that he was a vig but it's far more likely he's SK - regardless, I think he's scum of some sort because he's sure as fuck not playing like town. I think Darox is scum because he's been completely useless all game, has done virtually zero scum hunting, and is currently coasting by doing nothing outside of saying he doesn't see a case on IS. I think Bogre is scum for virtually the same reason I think Darox is scum, he's just a useless pile of shit. I'm not sure who I'd suspect as the final scum but I have town reads on almost every other player in this game.

Your turn.

[zMuffinMan]

1) Trying to lead the town (White Knighting is important to SK's since they are normally cop immune from what I have seen)

*clap* *clap*

You figured out an SK in this setup is most likely investigation immune when the cops only figure out whether someone is an invader or a black dragon.

You're very sharp.

2) Quote above

True fact: If I had potential to NK, I'd take out Nero. Or Bogre/Darox. Hint: If burner wants to earn town points, hit one of these players.

3) Aligns himself heavily with Ludiscum on a wagon against me.

Right. You're suggesting I'm SK who knew Ludi was scum and decided to align myself heavily with him to kill off someone I (as SK) knew was town or something?

5) Trying hard, HARD, to scapegoat someone else as an SK.
5a) If Muffin was town and he really thought I was an SK, he would be all over my shit again with this bullshit ala Ludi, not taking these dinky potshots at me.

You

are

the SK.

I don't for one second believe some 'benefactor' of yours took out Ludi because he believed your case when there were far better shots (hint: NERO) and no one paid you any attention when you were screaming for Ludi's lynch yesterday.

You were responsible for the Ludi kill.

But the town in this game is fucking stupid and wants to let you off the hook and continue mislynching for whatever fucking strange reason.

Muffin is the most dangerous of them all though.

OK, that's nice.

Now tell me, IS.

Apart from your suspicion that I'm SK, tell me who you think is scum. Tell me who the mafia is, Ludi, because I know you're not mafia, so you can at least help me out there before I try to get you lynched.

Also your muffin-SK crap is hilarious. You think I, as SK, would take out Ludi?

hahahahahahahaha

----------

Let's not forget that the slot that killed both is Reiko, an Invader who is more likely aligned with Shao Kahn than anyone else that has flipped.

I don't think the kill on Ludi/ABR was done by someone aligned with Shao Kahn. Shao Kahn was clearly mafia-aligned, not a specific mafia, just "mafia". There's been 3 "mafia" flips, all the same colour. It's best to just assume that there's a single scum team and two different killers apart from that (one even night, one odd night). Odd night is most definitely a serial killer.

----------

@Fonz,

What are you smoking?

Are you actually suggesting that you think there's a possibility that the guy who uses shurikens is town and took a shot at a claimed watcher just because it's ABR?

There's only ONE missing kill in this game, and that's the N1 kill (and even then, we don't know it's missing if Fate was double-killed and janitored). Every other night there's been two kill flavours.

[zMuffinMan]

btw, white knighting is completely my meta, regardless of my alignment. I always strongly defend my town reads and strongly push my scum reads, regardless of how little support I have.

You are so scum it's not even funny, IS. There is absolutely no way you are flipping town.

So I was thinking, and actually, caps lock rage might be the best way to get my point across.

HEY

TOWN

LISTEN UP

TODAY WE ARE LYNCHING IS

TOMORROW WE ARE LYNCHING NERO OR BOGRE OR DAROX

YOU NEED TO SHAPE UP AND START LISTENING TO ME INSTEAD OF GOING AFTER MISLYNCHES

I AM RIGHT. I AM AWESOME. SHEEP ME INSTEAD OF BEING RETARDED.

IS IS 100% SK. I GUARANTEE YOU THIS. WE LYNCH HIM TODAY, HE FLIPS ODD-NIGHT SK, WE FIGURE OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE SETUP, YAY EVERYONE IS HAPPY.

DON'T ARGUE WITH ME. DON'T DOUBT ME. JUST LISTEN TO ME AND HELP ME TRY TO SALVAGE THIS GAME BECAUSE IT'S HIGHLY LIKELY WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF LYLO/MYLO SINCE YOU GUYS INSISTED ON PITTING TWO TOWNIES AGAINST EACH OTHER D4 AND INSISTED ON KILLING THE TOWNIE IN THE RING D5.

DO. WHAT. I. SAY.

Sorry, I'm not very good with caps lock rage so I don't know if I'm doing it right here.

Hopefully this got the message across though.

I just want people to stop being stupid and actually look at the game and realise that IS is scum, Nero is scum, Darox is scum, Bogre is scum.

@ Toogeloo, I think you're town, but I think you've been completely wrong in most of your suspicions this game, and I just want you to take a leap of faith today and help me lynch IS.

@ Amrun, help me lynch IS. I guarantee you he'll flip SK, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind about it.

@ Oversoul, sheep me this game, I'll lead you to victory.

@ GI, Bogre is scum, but not the lynch today. Help me lynch IS first. Nero or Bogre can die tomorrow, I just want obv-SK dead today.

Here's the plan:

Put Nero in the ring first, just so we have scum in the ring. Put IS in the ring second, then lynch IS, not Nero. Nero can wait. He's mafia, but he's not as important to kill right now.

Get rid of IS today, please.

[zMuffinMan]

btw, even accounting for the 3 day night phase, it's been almost 9 days since Bogre posted and 6 days since Nacho posted. Need prods.

[zMuffinMan]

I know.

I'm suggesting it's 3 mafia and at least 1 SK, probably 2.

Technically it's not going to be LyLo/MyLo, but town probably won't have a majority is what I'm saying, and I don't trust scum to cross kill.

[zMuffinMan]

(I think it's 7:3:1:1 or 7:3:2 right now)

[zMuffinMan]

These are the mafia characters still alive: Kobra(BD), Shang Tsung(Invader), Reptile(Invader) <- I think that's a single scum team of invaders + BDs <- probably Nero, Bogre and Darox?

IS is probably Reiko(SK) - he killed Ludi last night for town cred. It seems to be working because town is oblivious in this game and wants to lose.

Scorpion is probably responsible for the even-night burn kills (and quite possibly SK, too) <- probably Fonz?



inb4 "how could you possibly know that? inside info lolol"

[zMuffinMan]

OK, that's great.

Now, when you feel like doing any scum hunting whatsoever, feel free to join in the game and pretend you're town.

Wanna help me lynch IS today? Then you get to keep Nero alive for at least one more day and you get rid of a pesky SK.

[zMuffinMan]

Why? If he's town, it helps you, if he's SK, it helps you.

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin, I'm all good with IS dying and all, but if he's an odd-night SK and today's an even day, I think we can better spend our time killing Nero.

Sure, as long as IS dies tomorrow.

If IS is an odd night SK, what does that make Fonz?

Not an odd night SK.

Do I get a prize for figuring this out?

But I'm looking at Fonz/Nero/IS remaining as scum, probably. Bogre needs to flake so he can stop being a wildcard, but everyone else is town enough.

Pretty sure there's still 3 mafia remaining and at least 1 SK. So at least 4 scum.

[zMuffinMan]

How come you are pulling a Mastin and only including the most vocal players though? Don't you think any lurkers can be scum at all?

Bogre is a lurker. I think he's scum. I've been calling him scum all game. Darox is active lurking, so I wouldn't exactly call him vocal, either.

Why do you only attack the people who openly oppose you?

Do you mean "why do people I attack openly oppose me"?

Because you said not a word about me until I called you scum, Nero said not a word about me until I called him scum, and yesterday I was a town read for Darox, but hey, guess what... that's changed because... I'll give you three guesses.

All you are doing is a poorly disguised OMGUS, Muffin. Suddenly IS and Fonz are SK's? Are you insane? We were scum a second ago until I brought all of this up.

I always refer to anything that is anti-town as scum. If I'm talking about mafia, I'll say mafia, not scum. SK is scum. Mafia is scum. Anyone whose win con is in direct conflict with town's win con is scum.

Besides, I can't OMGUS when I'm the initiator.

[zMuffinMan]

Dude, what's funny is you were saying I was most likely town until I continued attacking you today. And I'm the one OMGUSing.

Silly, IS. You're caught scum, you can continue flailing until it's your time to die tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

hahahahahaha

I just went back and checked some of your posts from yesterday ISO.

In #1216 I'm the towniest of all the people who were on your wagon, apparently.

Hmm. Let me go check what OMGUS means. According to mafiawiki, OMGUS means "to attack someone who is calling you town". Yep, I'm definitely OMGUSing you. My apologies, IS.



Also, check out Darox's scum/town list yesterday and compare it to today

What's the major difference? Oh yeah, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that I wasn't attacking Darox yesterday and his read on me was town then.

[zMuffinMan]

Actually, I'm most probably wrong about Darox/Nero/Bogre all being scum unless one of them is SK. They aren't all mafia together, that's for sure. They've voted together in succession far too much.

[zMuffinMan]

Cool. Odd night killer is still a serial killer though, and it's IS.

And if Darox figured it out, it's not like scum didn't know.

Do me a favour and kill Bogre tonight, please. Thank you in advance.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, and I figured out yesterday you were responsible for the burn kills, I thought you were an even night vig up until you refused to lynch Nero and the fact that odd-night is a serial killer so even/oddnight SKs (possibly aligned) sort of made sense.

[zMuffinMan]

Well, to be honest, I think the biggest factor that made CSL town was that she was a counter-wagon to Nero.

CSL (7) - The Fonz, Darox, GreyICE, Toogeloo, Internet Stranger, Bogre, Nero Cain

^ That wagon there has at most 4 town on it.

Yeah, CSL was playing like shit, but still...

[zMuffinMan]

So, do you think Nero is town then?

[zMuffinMan]

Your case kinda feels house of cards

How so?

All Nero's done is attack Oversoul, who is most likely town, attack other townies, who have now flipped town, attack me in OMGUS-like fashion and I know I'm town. Sure, maybe he's just a really, really scummy townie whose reads are really, really horrible...... or maybe not.

That said, I personally don't have a problem with chucking Nero in the ring with Darox. High likelihood they're both scum, so.

[zMuffinMan]

also what I don't understand is... If Nero is town, why the fuck aren't scum jumping all over him?

Nero v Darox is all cool in my books today as long as IS dies tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

Thing about Bogre... there's nothing you can say about him that isn't also true of kiwieagle.

Except that kiwi has said some drastically stupid things that don't make sense from the perspective he's scum.

Bogre is just being a scummy lurker.

Out of curiosity Muffin, what exactly was the reason that Fonz cant be an even night SK? I mean you just took what Fonz said as gospel. Not even a simple question, not a shred of doubt. Nope, just Fonz isnt IS, so it must be true! You swallowed that up like Oversoul. Somehow I want to think that youre smarter than this Muffin, so this tells me that youre playing a game here. Maybe its a hardcore tunnel game thinking thats the only way to get rid of me.

He's claimed even-night vig. It's a controllable role, and he's a good scum kill, so it'll resolve itself. It's not about whether or not I believe him, it's about whether or not he's a concern. And, like I've already said, I could potentially see those shots as vig shots, but there is no fucking way an odd-night vig threw shurikens at a claimed watcher who delivered scum to us on D3. Shurikens = serial killer

How do you not realise this?

I still heavily suspect you, Muffin, of being the other SK due to your actions and your weak circular arguments.

What weak circular arguments? If I'm an odd-night SK, surely you have better things to do today than go after me. Or do you think I'm just a regular SK who's missed several kills?

Do you have

any

suspects other than me, or are you just going to say "oh my god, muffin sucks!" all day?

White Knights are NEVER to be trusted and all need to ALWAYS be put to death.

That's an interesting theory. Good luck with that.

[zMuffinMan]

Cool. So you could get behind the Darox wagon, then?

[zMuffinMan]

What the fuck, IS? Am I reading this right? You think I'm SK (as in, you think I have no verifiable information that tells me whether or not Nero is town or scum), but you don't want to go after Nero

*purely*

because I'm pushing him and I think he's mafia? What's your opinion on Nero independent of my push on him?

You know why I'm asking you to scum hunt even though I think you're SK? Because you're not aligned with the mafia.

Re: The whole white knight thing. It's what I do. Regardless of my alignment. Although I do it far more as town than scum, I think. White knighting isn't scummy. I don't know whether you actually think it is or whether you're just saying it because you're obv-scum and flailing, but whatever.

So Muffin, tell me a reason why you dont want to push and pressure and pied piper people onto Nacho.

I think timeater was town. He was one of my stronger town reads while he was around. My town read on nacho is almost entirely because of timeater. I don't actually understand why you think he was scummy.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm reading over timeater in ISO but it's late and I'm tired so continuing after sleep.

How do we test him

By getting him to kill Bogre

what do we do if Fonz makes it to end game?

Deal with the situation when it arises. If we haven't hit scum by then, then we deserve to lose anyway.

[zMuffinMan]

It's not like he can hide the flavour for his vig shots. If obv-town ends up burned to death, treat him as a SK. It's that simple.

[zMuffinMan]

damn straight I'm feeding him targets, IS.

I want Bogre dead. I've been calling him scum alllllllllll game, literallly since one of my very first posts I think, but people have insisted he's town with a scum role PM, however the fuck that works.

If scum don't consider a claimed vig a threat and want to keep him around for the WIFOM factor, good on them. I hope they all die to burn kills.

Problem with that is that as long as Mafia is alive and an odd night SK, he only has to shoot 2 times or so before we get to end game.

That is why we lynch the odd night SK tomorrow. Hint: It's IS!

[zMuffinMan]

Are you bulletproof, IS?

Why would I ask Fonz to shoot someone I think is a SK?

[zMuffinMan]

What's funny is that in #1509, IS slipped that he knows I'm not the odd night SK. If he thought I was the odd night killer, he wouldn't use the word "suspects" like that.

[zMuffinMan]

Do you think I'm mafia, Darox?

Why was I town yesterday?

[zMuffinMan]

wat

[zMuffinMan]

It's almost like Nero is some sort of powerful scum PR and Darox is intentionally trying to be scummy as fuck so we lynch him instead.

[zMuffinMan]

Im not so sure that Muffin is the SK anymore, but im sure this will be confirmed over time.

Oh, really? Well, that's cool, I guess. I am still sure you're the SK, but thanks anyway.

Why are you still voting me?

They arent following along in lockstep with the self-proclaimed White Knight Muffin, so Muffin naturally wants them removed.

Why are you still ignoring the fact that Nero, Darox and yourself only started thinking I was "scummy"

after

I began attacking each of you?

Summarise the cases on Nero and Darox and tell me why you don't agree with either of them.

Then do that thing you say is pro-town and actually make a case on one of your scum reads if you don't want to see Nero/Darox in the ring.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, yeah. I said I'd read over timeater in ISO. Might as ell do that now.

[zMuffinMan]

#252

Because Ludi is gonna rape Palisade in the ring with a PR?

This is not timeater putting his scum buddy in the ring and saying this. timeater is not scum with Ludi. I should have stopped reading the ISO here but whatever.

Rest of D1 he's asking good questions and actually scum hunting.

Skipping to D4, I'm going to assume this is what IS was talking about when he said something about timeater's vote-hopping. It's not scummy. It was just D4. That shit happens after 1 half-day ending in a modkill and two mod-guilty days.

timeater was town. nacho is town. reads are in line with mine, not pursuing him today or any time in the near future.

Also muffin isn't the only one making cases on Nero.

Yes, and I haven't even really made a case on Darox, I've just pointed out he's been completely useless and he's been active lurking. But apparently I'm responsible for that wagon, too. Or something like that.

[zMuffinMan]

I wouldnt be so mistrustful of you if your cases on me werent so shitty, including yesterday's (following a obvious scum's lead?)

I don't ever pretend my cases are rock solid or airtight or whatever.

But I have a pretty decent accuracy rate, regardless of how shit my cases are, so I must be doing something right.

and you werent playing the White Knight card so fucking hard.

I've been 'white knighting' all game, though, so it's not like I just started doing it yesterday. You just ignored it when it was convenient for you. Kise picked up on it D1, I was calling Palisade town, Kise noted I was 'white knighting' him, I admitted it, you had no issue with it then. You had no issue with it when you acknowledged I was being a "gullible fool" defending Palisade on D4. I was the towniest person on your wagon D5, even though you know I've been "white knighting" all game. That's really interesting.

I would have honestly killed you instead of Ludi or MoS if I had a choice. Ludi was lynchable, I had him read. MoS was an opportunistic moron, he was lynchable. Muffin, not as lynchable when youre playing the White Knight card. Youre a bigger pain in my ass than Ludi or MoS will ever be.

Oh, I know I'm a bigger pain in your ass than either of them, but you still killed Ludi because you were hoping it would somewhat clear you as town or something like that. Killing me would have just left you with a dead townie and an uphill battle to get Ludi lynched when you're equally scummy.

You thought the Ludi kill would buy you town cred if he flipped scum. You thought wrong.

What exactly did Nero do? He mistrusts Amrun. I think he has the setup closest to correct out of anyone when scum are dying to obfuscate the setup (like Fonz the SK). He has a decent case on Oversoul (ooh hey, who could be good candidate for the other SK), and had a good case on CSL. Nero looks like someone is actively looking for scum, not standing on a pedestal and trying to command the town like you are, Muffin. Or trying to hide behind a half investigation like Amrun. Do I need to dig out the "Im 50% confimed town post, Amrun?" Or sniping in the shadows like Nacho.

All of Nero's setup speculation is just mirroring what Toog and I were discussing at the beginning of yesterday, with the addition of suggesting a "SK team" similar to a past game he's been in.

His cases I've already been over in #1297. His case on CSL while he was in the ring was crap, desperation to save his own hide. Nothing more than that. The other cases he made whilst in the ring were utter garbage.

He's not actively looking for scum. Prior to his Darox vote, all he'd done was actively push for mislynches.

He's either town who's playing like scum, making shit cases and has terrible, terrible reads or, the much simpler explanation is that he's scum.

[zMuffinMan]

That reminds me. Amrun is probably town because of those posts. Bogre still scum but Amrun is town.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm not really opposed to either Darox v Nero, Darox v IS or Nero v IS.

Bogre should just be killed by Fonz.

[zMuffinMan]

So throw Nero in.

[zMuffinMan]

(or IS, since I don't care whether he has a fake-claim)

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, wait, you don't want to shoot an unclaimed, didn't read that right. Whatever, just get whoever you're gonna shoot to claim before you shoot them.

Pitting them against Darox is useless if all you want is a claim and you're gonna lynch Darox anyway.

[zMuffinMan]

Basis of being scum and pushing bullshit cases.

Like what?

Muffin is probably town, but erroneous.

You say that, while voting for Nero and acknowledging that IS is likely the SK.

The only person that has a case on me is Muffin and he only thinks I'm scum b/c I'm attacking lurkerscum OS.

There's a *tiny* bit more to it than that...

[zMuffinMan]

You bring up some good points.

*checks votecount*

hmm. Wait a minute...

[zMuffinMan]

Im not as concerned with catching scum as I cam catching that second SK, and I want to eliminate the possibility of him being one of you sneaky lurkers.

You're not lurking, though.

They are actually trying.

Nero, aside, Darox is not "trying". At all. He active lurked his way through most of the game. He gave reads on like half the players D5, then gave an almost completely different set of reads today (noting that his town read on me yesterday was because MoS + Ludi were alive, which is strange because he barely mentioned them yesterday and certainly didn't give his read on either of them at any point).

And Nero trying is more Nero trying to avoid being the lynch today than anything else.

Trying isn't a town tell.

[zMuffinMan]

I've been scum hunting since day 1.

uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

no.

Any reason you didn't comment on OS play in TV mafia, Muffin.

Because I skipped over you asking me about it and I'm not someone that focuses particularly hard on meta. I think Oversoul is town here.

[zMuffinMan]

erm

fonz claimed even night vig, he's responsible for the burn kills.

The only unaccounted for kills are odd-night shuriken kills (on ABR, who was claimed watcher, and Ludi, who was scum). This points to an odd-night SK (and he probably has some other special mechanic to balance the fact he can only kill on odd nights, like even night commuter or something).

[zMuffinMan]

^above was in response to

But IS coming out with a second SK? Two odd night SK's?

which is baffling.

[zMuffinMan]

Then you'd be fine with a Darox lynch?

[zMuffinMan]

But Kiwi is getting killed tonight (Fonz) and Bogre probably doesn't have as much support. Why them first, anyway?

Also, FTR, perfectly happy with a Darox lynch over Nero if it comes down to it, because Darox is being a useless lump of scum

[zMuffinMan]

You're either implying that you're not part of this town or that you're doing nothing to change that.

Congratulations. You totally shouldn't be lynched.

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin, youre starting to be really petty on your lynch targets. Thats not very becoming of a White Knight thats ready to save us all.

White knights only protect those who are good and pure of heart.

This does not apply to you, Darox or Nero.

[zMuffinMan]

wait, who are your scum reads? Oversoul, Amrun, Nacho, Bogre, Kiwi, me? And Darox somewhere there, too?

Dude muffin-led parades are awesome.

Only scum hate muffins, IS. Muffins are made of awesome. You are clearly scum.

[zMuffinMan]

(PS: I'm hardly leading the Darox wagon, but whatever)

[zMuffinMan]

Fonz would be correct.

[zMuffinMan]

Just put Nero in against Darox. I honestly have no qualms voting either, as long as IS is dead tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

I actually intended to vote for Darox after reading the wall of crap he posted after sleeping, and was going to say that but a preview came up with your post.

Timing.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, and if I'm alive tomorrow, I wanna fight IS and take him down. I want the glory.

[zMuffinMan]

No. IS is tomorrow's lynch.

[zMuffinMan]

Because he is clearly the odd-night SK. Whatever, we can discuss it tomorrow, I don't see much point arguing about it now.

[zMuffinMan]

Well assuming you're town and we've hit at least one of the remaining scum by tomorrow (and god, if both Darox and Nero flip town, I'm going to cry), we're in a pretty good position.

Assume only one of Nero/Darox is scum, it's likely 6:2:1 tomorrow, lynch IS, night kill, 5:2, that's good.

If both Darox/Nero are scum, even better.

I honestly don't see any way I'm moving my vote from IS tomorrow. Odd-night SK needs to die before he gets another shot.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't see an odd-night SK being gimped without at least being bulletproof and possibly being something like an even-night commuter/roleblocker/whatever.

Otherwise, I'd have just asked you to shoot him.

[zMuffinMan]

I encourage mafia to take a shot at IS. He is obviously very pro-town and needs to die by your hands. It is in your best interests to kill him.

[zMuffinMan]

^ the above may or may not have been said in a completely monotonous voice.

[zMuffinMan]

Simplest solution is to just vote them in. Put one of Nero/Darox in now. Let people say what they want to say, then put the other in and it's go time.

Unless anyone has objections to one of them being lynched (other than GI's "BOGRE MUST DIE" stuff and IS's "THE CASES ARE SHIT

but I think Darox is playing like a serial killer

" stuff)

[zMuffinMan]

put darox in ring
put nero in ring
???
dead scum

[zMuffinMan]

but darox is being obvscum

[zMuffinMan]

Hey, Darox, where's that more later that was going to happen when you weren't going to sleep?

[zMuffinMan]

Nope.

Ending this day soon, there's some stuff I want to read through first. brbrbrb.

[zMuffinMan]

Don't see a reason to prolong this day phase. Will probably be voting Nero at showdown.

VOTE: Darox

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: Nero

[zMuffinMan]

Mercy: Nero
Choose: Darox

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: Darox

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

Choose: Darox

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: dumbfuck

[zMuffinMan]

Choose: Darox

*

[zMuffinMan]

Mercy: Darox
Choose: Nero

[zMuffinMan]

nope. we're not killing an even-night killer on an odd day, regardless of how poor his choice of kill was. today we lynch IS.

VOTE: IS

more later when i have time.

[zMuffinMan]

Toog, we aren't lynching mafia today, we are lynching the guy who throws shurikens. That guy is IS. Today we lynch IS.

Just ignore Darox for today.

I am legitimately interested in why The Fonz shot Nacho over either option he told us he would do yesterday (Kill Bogre, or Kill Survivor of the Duel).

This, ASAP, though, especially in light of the Nero flip. I swear the last thing he said was he was vigging the survivor of the duel...

Anyway, I was reading over some ISOs last night.

I think kiwi is most likely town in light of all the flips so far (although how little Nero mentioned him is somewhat weird, kiwi himself has some interesting interactions with flipped scum so far that don't really look like scum-scum interaction.

I think Oversoul is most likely town (did not see what was happening with the Nero-OS interaction as bussing).

I think GI is likely town, although I don't like the way he's been coasting through this game.

I'm not really sure what to make of Toog, but pretty sure he's town.

IS is the odd-night shuriken thrower. Darox and Bogre are probably the remaining mafia.

[zMuffinMan]

assuming fonz is town (which is a big ? right now), we're looking at probably 3 scum remaining (shurikens + 2 mafia). We want to take out the shurikens tonight so we're down to 1 kill a night (and if Fonz is town, he's not allowed to shoot anymore).

Lynch IS today. Darox can die tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

You should vote for me, Darox. It'll make it less obvious you are scum.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, but that can all be explained if Darox is scum and their remaining partner had to choose between one of them :/

Nacho was town because of timeater's "Ludi is a PR" speculation D1. That wasn't a scum partner going "heh I'm putting my buddy in the ring to fakeclaim a PR and get derpmastin lynched" but whatever, bygones.

Unaccounted for if IS is SK = bed of spikes + head devoured = two scum left, who do you think is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

PS: town mindset isn't "roll over and die at showdown".

Also, notice how Nero went through effort to make it known that his "scum reads" were scum the first time he went into showdown against CSL and then yesterday it was just "lol list 4 players call them scum". He didn't put the same effort in because he knew it was him or his buddy. And vice versa.

[zMuffinMan]

Toog had a non-BD investigation right? That means nothing in light of the fact that the whole black dragon faction is likely dead.......

[zMuffinMan]

OS and kiwi are unlikely scum due to interactions. GI is unlikely scum due to lolBDmillerclaim.

remaining mafia is 2 of {Darox, Bogre, Toog}.

As long as you're town and you choose not to kill from this point onwards AND I'm right about that, this game is a town win.

[zMuffinMan]

Do you think kiwi is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

I know why I'm still alive and Amrun is dead. It's because I said I'm pushing an IS lynch today. IS isn't mafia, he is the SK. Mafia know he's not one of them, and so are fine with keeping me alive today while I get him lynched. I don't particularly see myself living past tonight, though.

I don't know why you're still alive, but I'd guess it's some combination of thinking they might be able to push a mislynch on you as SK or they might have just not wanted to kill you on an even night orrrrrrrr something else entirely.

I'm contemplating something. I'll come back later after doing some thinking.

[zMuffinMan]

btw what interactions were you referring to that make Bogre less likely to be scum? His D6 play is the only thing that maybe makes it unlikely (because prior to D6 he had very few interactions with any of the flipped scum), but there's nothing rock solid that makes me think he's likely to be town, especially if Darox is scum.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm missing something.

I don't think Toog is scum, there's too much stuff in his ISO that doesn't make much sense if he's scum. Likewise, Bogre's interactions with Nero and Darox (espeically yesterday, but voting patterns on previous days as well) suggests that, if Darox is one of the 2 remaining mafia, Bogre isn't the other.

I need to reassess things.

[zMuffinMan]

The way he talked about spring's miller claim didn't look like scum who knows there's a mix of BDs/invaders as a scum team. The speculation on the N3 kill makes no sense from the perspective he's scum. Actually all his setup speculation in general that I talked about with him, it doesn't seem like he was operating with inside info - if you want an example of how scum talked about the setup, compare Nero's posts to Toog's posts. Some of the interaction with Ludi D4 doesn't make sense from the perspective he's scum with Ludi (like when Ludi was asking him to join the IS wagon).

[zMuffinMan]

GI, help me make IS dead today and you can do whatever you want tomorrow

[zMuffinMan]

I wanna look over some stuff after sleep but IS is the lynch today. It's just figuring out the remaining mafia that's the issue now.

[zMuffinMan]

If it's a two man scum team AND a two man SK team, are we fucked either way?

If scum aren't completely retarded, they'll kill Fonz tonight, because the possibility that he's SK necessitates they take out a risk to them before he gets another shot in. He's either likely to be town's only remaining PR, or he's SK with potential to kill him. They'd have to be braindead not to kill him tonight.

[zMuffinMan]

You could always claim and lay down and die.

[zMuffinMan]

(or give us your fake-claim, either way)

[zMuffinMan]

reading back over some stuff from yesterday.

CSL (7) - The Fonz, Darox, GreyICE, Toogeloo, Internet Stranger, Bogre, Nero Cain

^ That wagon there has at most 4 town on it.

1 down, 1 about to go. That CSL lynch was terrible.

[zMuffinMan]

I wouldn't bet my life on it, the same as I wouldn't have bet my life on Nero being scum, but everything points towards him being the odd-night SK, and I'm as sure of this as I was sure of Nero being scum. He's playing like scum, the kills are in line with IS-as-SK (well, mostly the Ludi kill here, because I doubt anyone else would have shot Ludi, especially if their aim was purely to take out scum, because Nero would have been a far better shot N5 if that was the case).

Do you think he's town?

[zMuffinMan]

What two things are you specifically talking about, btw?

[zMuffinMan]

I fail to see as to how I could be an SK.

[zMuffinMan]

But you would have ate your wang... lol.

I'll make the same bet with IS.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't even remember betting that, actually. But at least I was right.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, right. #1212. OK, yeah, same bet this time with IS.

[zMuffinMan]

There was a point in your ISO where I (may have read too deeply into and) thought I saw you crumb something

You read too deeply.

In any case, the plan was always to put the two scummiest people in the ring, as has been the plan since the beginning of the game except for when we had PR guilties. I just want IS lynched.

Also, I've been going over ISOs a lot in the past couple days. I'm pretty sure OS/Toog are town, as is GI (based purely on his miller claim). Fonz is at least not mafia and not ON-SK. Pretty sure the scum team is Darox+one of Bogre/Kiwi. Leaning Bogre, but meh.

[zMuffinMan]

so who do you actually think is scum, Darox?

VOTE: Darox

I have every intention of lynching IS in the ring, but I don't see a good reason not to put Darox in there. If anything, Darox can get some kicks out of taking down IS and feeling like a big man.

[zMuffinMan]

Let no one forget that Muffin was 100% sure I was with the scum at one point. He didn't give a shit about what was really going on, he didn't start playing the white knight game until I started calling him out. Not my fault the SK went scum hunting, but I can still claim Ludi as mine since I had him pegged.

Nope, I refer to all things anti-town as "scum". If I want to talk specifically about mafia, I'll say "mafia". You weren't playing like town, you still aren't playing like town, the only thing that's changed is the Ludi kill, which makes absolutely no sense from the perspective that anyone else is SK. If the SK's objective was to take out scum, they could have gone for far easier shots (like Nero... or you). If the SK's objective was to take out town, there were far more town-looking players to take out. But the SK took out Ludi. The big question of the day is, "WHY?" The answer is obvious.

So that's it. Apparently I'm an SK because I'm sure as hell not scum and I have been mostly ineffective this game. So of course Muffin needs a trophy and brands me as an SK. If I was the SK.

I want my trophy. Badly.

So badly I'm willing to bet on eating my own wang if I'm wrong.

I'm going to stick that trophy on the highest shelf in my room and when people come around to my house I will point it out. "Oh, that old thing? Yeah, that was from the time I had IS pegged as SK and I was right about it. Yep, bet my manhood on it. Turns out I was right. No biggie, I'm always right."

[zMuffinMan]

OK, Darox, that's great.

So who do you think is scum?