Mortal Kombat Mafia (Game Over: Mafia Win)

[The Fonz]

Why are we choosing two big players to be pit off against eachother on Day 1 D:?
Btw claim miller.

Vote: Bunnylover

Lynch all claimed millers.

Also, fullclaim.

WHOA SLOW DOWN

WERE NOT QUICKLYNCHING HIM

WE STILL NEED PLENTY OF DAY ONE READS

GIMME FIVE OR TEN PAGES AT LEAST FIRST

Fate is the voice of sanity? Jesus.

That isn't lynching twice.

That's not the point anyway. We need to form reads first.

I'm quite happy with putting the number one scum read up against a derp or a claimed miller. That way, we're essentially lynching normally, with the option of getting rid of a derp as the fallback if the scumread claims power. At some point, scumread will claim power. Therefore, we don't have to worry about the gambit.

~~~~

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MASTIN. I

DO NOT

WANT TO READ WALLS.

vote:Fate

Fate vs. Cooldog[/quote]

Sorry, you don't want to read Mastin, so your solution is NOT to kill him?

@Palisade: Are you asking me to name claim (character role)?
If so, I rather have town agree to me name claim (not that it matter).
I disagree with the first reason that you listed that Toog is scum. Its obvious that Fate and Cooldog has some rivalry with eachother, and it seems pretty set that they will fight eachother. Knowing the background story, I doubt would influence votes.
But I do see the fluff although its page 2 not much content would be posted in everyone post.

@Amrun: Um no. I'll name claim if town wants.

ASKING TOWN'S PERMISSION + ASSUMING FATE AND CD WILL FIGHT RATHER THAN ACTUALLY TRYING TO DO ANY SCUMHUNTING + REALLY FUCKING VAGUE COMMENT THAT KINDA, MIGHT BE, DEFENDING UNSPECIFIED PLAYERS.

PS. YOU'RE USELESS BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO RUN UP PEOPLE FOR POINTING OUT MOD ERRORS. JUST LET THAT SINK IN. POINTING OUT MOD ERRORS IN THE DEADLINE AND LYNCH THRESHOLD. THINGS THAT HAVE NO RELATION TO ROLE AND ARE PRETTY EASY TO SPOT EVEN AS AN OUTSIDER WITH NO GAME INFORMATION.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLY A GOOD AND SENSIBLE AVENUE FOR SCUMHUNTING?

He's saying that pointing out mod errors is not scumhunting. duh.

HURR DURR LETS PIT BOTH THE MIKLLERS AGAINST EACHOTHER.

I bet you thats EXACTLY what the mod predicted when throwing BOTH

TOWN

millers in this game.

.

Or you know, the millers could NOT BE FUCKING RETARDED and claim miller D1. You know what's scummy? BL's 'Well I'm a miller but won't fullclaim.' As if she's trying to keep 'Oh, I'm actually a miller

power role

' up her sleeve for later.

[The Fonz]

I'm aware that SL claimed miller too; Bunnylover is however scummier. See how that works?

[The Fonz]

Also, if you mean she claimed without fullclaiming in the first post after BL was called on it, so fucking what? It's obvious that Spring had not read the game, hence being surprised by the fact that BL had claimed miller. In so far as it's worth suffering any claimed miller to live, I think it's perfectly plausible a miller who has resolved to claim first post would see the role pm, then go to the thread to claim before reading through. That's actually something of a town sign, since it would be rational for a fakeclaiming scum to check no-one else had claimed miller first if entering a few pages in.

Springlullaby DID fullclaim pretty quickly when asked to, was not evasive, and did so in more detail than BL.

[The Fonz]

Bogre, do you think anyone had good reason to be on CooLDog?

[The Fonz]

@The Fonz: I am not full claiming. You can go to hell with that idea.

Right, check the idea that Bunnylover is scum who is refusing to fullclaim so that she can claim most convenient power role if it looks like she might be lynched.

[The Fonz]

Right, here's why we need to force a bunnylover fullclaim.

She's making clear she refuses to FULL claim. However, she's shared flavor and the miller aspect. If she were just a miller, then that's a fullclaim. That means she's basically softclaiming a power role in addition. People who softclaim power should ALWAYS be forced to fullclaim, because scum will know they're power anyway.

[The Fonz]

ATTENTION TOWN: I AM

NEVER[/I] REMOVING MY VOTE FROM BUNNY UNTIL SHE FULLCLAIMS OR ONE OF US DIES.

[The Fonz]

I bet this is your first time with Bunnylover, Fonz
.

Its sad but she's town

Yes, it is. What's the deal with her? She's hinted power role. Obviously, it is in the interests of town to pin her down to one claim, so that she can't just pull out the most beneficial claim when she's run up.

[The Fonz]

Guys, We have to do this one person at a time.

Fonz, we have in this game mastin who

a. Is mastin
b. has acted scummy and anti-town

Have you read him? WE NEED to put him into the pit now.

I have, and I see an effort at scumhunting. The slot seems to be getting attacked because one head referred a question about a comment the other made to the head that made it. That's not scummy, that's hydra play.

[The Fonz]

I'm pretty sure if either's scum, it's Bunny.

[The Fonz]

Also, even though I recognize the technical correctness of Fonz' view on BL, I do not agree with him. IF one miller claim is true, I would definitely choose BL over SL.

And that's just it. SL has been straightforward, and acted like I might expect a town player who thinks claiming miller is the right thing to do. Bunny is SO much scummier.

Why not put someone no one wants to get rid of in the Ring and make it a slam dunk "Flawless Victory"?

Five words.

What if Palisade claims cop?

MoS' dice are bothering me but I think it isn't something scum would do. It is stupid, though.

It's MoS' shtick, like UltimaAvalon selfvoting or UK voting the mod. It's not something he 'wouldn't do as scum' because he always does it. I normally policy vote people who do stuff like that (that's

my

shtick) but we have bigger fish to fry.

I don't know if sending in one scummy player and one good players due to roles.
Even though we believe person X is scum, do we still decide to kill them if they claim a pro-town role (Cop, doctor, etc) while person Y is more viable as a player but not in role term (VT, neighbourizer, etc)?

Which is why we put in a scummy player who's already claimed a negative value role, like, say, you.

Yes, it is. What's the deal with her? She's hinted power role. Obviously, it is in the interests of town to pin her down to one claim, so that she can't just pull out the most beneficial claim when she's run up.

*stores away for possible role-fish*.
[/quote]

LOL. In what world is demanding a claim from someone and refusing to move your vote until they do 'fishing?' It's simple. Players who softclaim should ALWAYS be forced to fullclaim. Add in the fact that, even without the miller claim, she'd still be scummy.

I have, and I see an effort at scumhunting.

Attacking people for pointing out obvious mod errors isn't scum hunting Fonz, it's fluff to make someone look like they are scumhunting.

No, pointing out mod errors is fluff, and pointing out fluff is scumhunting.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: springlullaby

Fonz, why are you ignoring the context of BL's playstyle in her miller claim?

Again, what fucking context? I've never played with her before, all I can see is that she's acting scummy and shifty, whereas Spring is acting how I would expect an honest miller claimant to do, and being as straightforward as possible. People seem to be completely ignoring my argument that it would make sense for a scum planning a miller claim to read through and check no-one had already claimed it, whereas an actual miller who believed in claiming first post would claim first post regardless of how bad it might make them look.

Basically, BL is by a million miles the scummier of the two, and it frankly astounds me that people can't see this.

[The Fonz]

@Fonz: lol the difference between me and Spring is that I am been question while Spring is not. You can't compare us.
So Spring first post claiming miller = town.
My First post claiming miller = YOU CLAIMED TOO EARLY.

No, and that's a misrepresentation, which adds to your scumpoints. I am against first post miller claims on principle. First post claims at the very least achieve nothing that a twilight claim couldn't. I believe that the harm of allowing scum to narrow down who the power roles might be by prem claiming is much more likely to cause the town harm the the outside chance that there is a cop and that cop investigates you and lives to claim it. I also believe it's a brilliant claim for scum, because it allows them to dodge said investigations, while the claimant won't get lynched because half the town will scream 'OMG SOMEONE IS TRYING TO POLICY LYNCH HER, SHE MUST BE TOWN!' If something's bad for town and good for scum, it's scummy.

That said, in the context of the two miller claims, yours is scummier. I do think a scum coming to the thread late with the idea of claiming miller is likely to check that no-one else has already done so. Someone else having claimed miller already raises the risk of the gambit, which makes it a less likely course of action for scum - but town who want to claim miller first post will do it anyway, because they believe it's right.

Also, as noted, outside of the miller claim, your posts have been scummier than hers.

[The Fonz]

Also, Spring's actions make perfect town sense.

"Hey, someone else claimed my role! Vote: her!"

Although... this is a large game, maybe it isn't impossible there are role doubles... I'll check my pm to see if it gives any indication as to whether or not other millers might exist.

"No, there's nothing in my pm to suggest i'm the only miller, unvote."

I do think one of you is lying. Some people have suggested multiple scumgroups is a flavor fit. If that were the case, then i could see scumgroup-specific investigators and scumgroup-specific millers. But multiple standard millers are not impossible, but unlikely - i've only seen it once, and the mod there was... me.

[The Fonz]

Ludi, would you agree that it's hugely unlikely both are scum?

[The Fonz]

She didn't retract it, though. She retracted the vote, but that's not the same thing at all as retracting the claim. And she was more forthcoming with details than Bunny was.

[The Fonz]

On Bunny, there are stuff I don't like, but mostly I just kinda think Bunnylover is not good enough player (yet) to make any kind of gambit as scum, so I'm having her as legit and dismissing all else as noise of paranoia.

I don't know what to make of the Fonz' white knight yet, but I'm kinda flattered right now so I'll just sit here primly and look up on him with lashes aflutter.

1) Why would you assume the scum who performs the gambit has to be the same one who comes up with it? Also, if Bunny is familiar enough with the debate around the right course of action for millers to choose to claim post one, she is familiar enough to fake it.
2) Toog despite obv retardation is very likely town.
3) People seem to be referring to BL's meta as if she's some kind of VI/extreme playstyle. A quick re-read of Nintendo mafia seems to suggest a fairly standard playstyle.

[The Fonz]

OK, redhead, firstly, you're a gigantic, raging, douche. Secondly, specific rebuttals:

1) Re not mentioning Spring: this reminds me of Egypt Mafia (remember that, MOS?) I've only got one fucking vote. With two miller claims, it's highly unlikely both are scum, as I mentioned before. OF COURSE I'm going to talk about the player I think's scum.
2) I'm getting pretty fucking pissed off with getting accused of white knighting every time I say I think someone's not scum and give reasons.
3) On that note, Toogeloo is town and you're retarded. Actually, he's retarded as well. Kind of an epidemic of retardation going around here.
4) Yes, I WOTCed mastin: I despise him, and he sucks the fun out of any game he plays in. That doesn't mean he's scum.

__________________________________________
@Reck:

I think Spring claimed in at least as much or more detail than Bunny, no? What is the distinction in your eyes? Spring's trying to get Bunny to say 'passive ability' seems to indicate to me she had a real miller role pm and work out if Bunny's fit with hers.

[The Fonz]

Is that flavor for Fate is dead, or does he have a chance to come back?

Well thinking about it, Fate was kidnapped, meaning we didn't have a night kill from anyone if that's the case.

Who knows, really? Better direct our energies to things we can sort out.

Vote: WeyounsLastClone

Love the smell of VI scum in the morning.

Guess bunnylover can wait.

[The Fonz]

Only thing I want to say here is don't hammer until every player (possibly excepting WLC) has posted today.

[The Fonz]

Kiwieagle can't read, but it's a town-looking mistake. Reck's argument against amrun, while not conclusive, is logical despite what Amrun may say. And drop the f-ing AtE already.

Wondering if there's a janitor, why (s)he didn't act last night.

So Bunny was a faction specific miller, but refused to claim it D1, then wasn't given a chance to by the quicklynch d2. Lol.

What's happened today with ABR is EXACTLY why we shouldn't quicklynch again. If Albert would have died last night, we would have lost an investigation for nothing.

[The Fonz]

Agreed. If a cop investigated her, she could just promise to protect him for the rest of the game, and that town were free to lynch her the second he died. (Although I think it looks like she might have been a faction-specific doc).

On that note, MoS' post reminds me that a possible explanation for no janitoring is that the faction with the janitor was blocked, and Bunny was killed by a vig. Though that would mean that kills from different factions have been blocked on consecutive nights.

[The Fonz]

She should, at least, not be lynched in the next day or two though. Knowing she is not scum with WLC takes a lot of heat out of the arguments against her as well.

[The Fonz]

It takes all the heat out of the argument, actually, which wasn't great to begin with. Anyone who has played with me (like Reck) should absolutely know that I wouldn't say what I said about wlc about a scumbuddy, esp after one vote.

There's also the 'She made me [Reck] out to be scummy for changing my read on a guy with a cop guilty' which was a better argument to begin with. Agree with her on Weyoun always looking like scum.

I think you'd be better off asking one of the players who was 'frothing at the mouth' to begin with.

[The Fonz]

Btw- people seem to have completely forgotten about Palisade the last couple of days. Somewhat understandable given claimed night actions, but kinda unsettling too, given how hardcore people were against them D1.

[The Fonz]

Hey Ludi, is that somehow not good enough for you? Other than Palisades, (which I find odd that no one has investigated them yet), who else are we supposed to string up tomorrow?

Of all the fucking people you could confirm as town, you'd want to confirm Mastin?

[The Fonz]

He might have thought that he couldn't change his position on Palisades without making it super-obvious he's a cop. I'd never investigate someone I already had a massive scum read on for that reason. Investigate someone neutral.

[The Fonz]

MoS, you may have been pushing an Amrun lynch, but you haven't made a case, ever. The closest thing seems to be when you imply you're endorsing reck's WLC case.

Spoiler: Every single mention of Amrun by Creepo

I would be willing to throw any of the following into the pit against Palisade-town before I'd throw Ludi in:

ABR
Ghostwriter
The Fonz
Amrun
xRECKONERx
Kise

If anyone feels like starting a wagon on someone from this list, I'm with you.

unvote

VOTE: Amrun

Gogogogogo

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

Reck: go meta weyounslastclone. He always plays like this.

PASSIVE META DEFENSE LOCATED.
FIRE ON ALL CYLINDERS.

Told you Amrun was scum.

Vote: WLC

Let's throw Amrun in the ring with him, just in case there are shenanigans.

Vote: Amrun

GOGOGOGO

We hate you all.

(This is a code-phrase for: "busy with obligations with a lot to read and a lot to do". Mainly, we need a replacement scumread for Kise.)

Try Amrun.

xRECKONERx, what happened to your gung-ho attack on Amrun-scum?

Yup. And then let's throw Amrun and xRECKONERx in the ring together tomorrow. We got this game locked up.

Why is Toogeloo scum? I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't see how that post specifically made you vote him.

Also, the Amrun votes aren't to put town vs scum in the ring. We're putting scum vs scum so we win either way.

Vote: Amrun

Unvote, Vote: GhostWriter

I'm not throwing ABR up there with him.

Also, Amrun is still scum, and it has nothing to do with Reck being a cop.

[The Fonz]

He might have thought that he couldn't change his position on Palisades without making it super-obvious he's a cop. I'd never investigate someone I already had a massive scum read on for that reason. Investigate someone neutral.

Super-huge scumslip, guys.

Fonz knows we're town.

Reck's stance on us D1 was that we're scum.
This implies Fonz knows that if we were investigated, we'd turn up town.
In other words, Fonz knows we're town already.

How the fuck is that in any way, in a million years, anything close to a scumslip? Read what I said. Reck, in the position of being a cop, might have chosen not to investigate you, because if you came up town, him stopping attacking you would be a dead giveaway.

That's eight. 8/20 alive, who're far less likely to be scum than others. We're looking for a total of six scum, including WLC and GW.

This, however, IS a scumslip.

FUCKING. KILL. MASTIN. WITH. FIRE.

[The Fonz]

Reck, in the position of being a cop, might have chosen not to investigate you, because if you came up town, him stopping attacking you would be a dead giveaway.

Which assumes we'd flip town. Something you strongly imply you know would happen.

Hence, scumslip.

How the fuck can you be that dense? It's not for one second assuming you're going to comeup town. However, any cop has to take into account the possibility that his target flips town. If he can't change position in that situation without giving himself away, then he should investigate someone else. It's just common sense.

This, however, IS a scumslip.

FUCKING. KILL. MASTIN. WITH. FIRE.

Oh? Really now? Seven plus ourselves = 8/20. Logical deduction on there being six scum, as pointed out. WLC already flipping scum. ABR having a guilty on GW. What in there is a scumslip?

There's nothing in there which isn't effing common sense.

Whatever happened to your town-read on us, Fonz? Realized White Knighting us was backfiring?

You're OMGUS'ing us, confirming once and for all that you are, in fact, scum.

No, you slipped. Knowing exactly how many scum there are in a game is a common scumslip.

DIE DIE DIE.

[The Fonz]

Oh? Really now? Seven plus ourselves = 8/20. Logical deduction on there being six scum, as pointed out. WLC already flipping scum. ABR having a guilty on GW. What in there is a scumslip?

Hang on a second: seven plus yourselves? THIS is an even bigger scumslip.

[The Fonz]

I'm not going to get into a wall vs wall battle with Mastin. Let's just have it suffice by saying every single point he's made is bullshit, and leave it at that.

Hang on a second: seven plus yourselves? THIS is an even bigger scumslip.

Or you can look up...

...Oh, Mastin's scumhunting in any completed Large Normal. He always talks that way. It's called scumhunting.
Mastin always removes himself from the list of reads.
Mastin frequently removes himself from the VCA.
Mastin always knows he's town and includes that in his analysis.

Mastin's done that in every game we've played. And we've played in a lot of games.

HE IS COUNTING YOUR HYDRA AS ONE OF THE SCUM! THAT'S THE SLIP!

[The Fonz]

Just so we're clear, and no-one misses this because their eyes started glazing over the second they started reading a Mastin post: Mastin, how many scum do you think there are?

Seven plus ourselves = 8/20.

[The Fonz]

But what does his number of 'Angels' have to do with the number of scum? The only thing he can be referring to there that makes any sense is six other scum alive, if you discount the dead one and himself. He doesn't talk about his Angel list anywhere else in the post. So either he responded to me accusing him of slipping by talking about something utterly irrelevant to the number of scum, or he's actually responding to the 'number of scum' point and including himself in the number of scum.

PS Eight scum total makes so much more sense as a matter of logical deduction. What chance does a group of three in a 25 man game with crosskills have?

[The Fonz]

BTW, if anyone thinks a specific point Palisade made had any validity whatsoever, say which and I'll happily rebut it. Like I said, I don't want to go point for point with Mastin, because that kills games.

[The Fonz]

YOU'RE MAD? YOU'RE FUCKING MAD?

You're posting so much fucking unmitigated, total, bullshit that it's actually painful. Every time I read one of your fucking abortions of posts, I get so much rage that I have to step away from the computer for ten minutes. Every word of every one of your posts is not worth the pixels it takes to put together, and that you have THE FUCKING AUDACITY to call my reasonable arguments bullshit whilst excreting from your virtual mouths every time you open them takes my breath away.

DIE
FUCKING DIE

[The Fonz]

The Fonz, how come you didn't want to wagon Mastin day one with me?

Because I thought they were probably town, duh. They hadn't started slipping and misrepresenting me all over the place.

[The Fonz]

Also, MoS, time to extract your cranium from your posterior. You haven't made one word of a case on Amrun all freakin' game. You know full well that to overcome an investigation that rules out her being in one of the two scumgroups makes lynching her basically impossible unless you've got not just a case, but a damn good one. Either you're pulling one of those derpy gambits you sometimes try to make yourself look smarter than everyone else, or you're scum trying to look like you're doing that so you can keep tunnelling and never, ever, have to actually make a meaningful contribution.

[The Fonz]

Right, so do you think not posting cases is scummy or not?

[The Fonz]

Also, interestingly, there MIGHT be an Amrun/GW connection. You finally making an actual argument made me go back and read her to check if it's true (kinda, sorta - she does give reasons here and there, like 'There's no way both millers are town-' note I'm not saying they're good ones) and she random votes GW then declares him super town with no reasoning, apparently apropros of nothing.

[The Fonz]

And HOLY CRAP, is it hard to find a completed town Amrun game. Tried looking at the themes, but she seems to be scum or 3p in nearly all of them, and she's in loads of ongoings. Amrun, links?

[The Fonz]

I have a pretty up to date wiki. It's no secret.

My original vote on GW was semi-random and very weak. He did some sort of thing that convinced me he was town but I'm not big on sharing reasons for townreads unless they become relevant. I honestly don't remember what he did that I liked.

I'm not big on giving townreads on players not under attack in general, but if you do, why the hell wouldn't you say why?

That is reaching. Again, you are a smart enough player to think about scum motivation and why anyone would do such a thing to a scumbuddy.

I'm also smart enough to recognise a WIFOM defence when I see one.

Logic dictates that I am half as likely to be scum than anyone else, so find a less stupid suspect. Later in the gamou still harbor such suspicions, we can discuss it then.

Because I'll probably still be alive because now I'm not even a good vig shot. *sigh*

What part of 'there is no way we should lynch Amrun in the next day or two' did you not get?

I also really dislike how you say there "might" be a GW conection. There isn't, but if you think there is, why not state it with conviction instead of pussyfooting around it, waiting to hear what others think?

You wanna talk about reaches? This. There might be a scumbuddy connection, but it's hardly the case that every pair of players where one does this to the other are actually partners. I'm town therefore uninformed, I don't know whether there's a scumbuddy connection there or not. Hence 'might.' If Gw flips Black Dragon, there obviously isn't.

[The Fonz]

And another thing. What on Earth makes you think it has anything to do with 'what anyone else thinks?' And why are you simultaneously accusing mastin of confirmation bias, overstating his reads etc, and attacking me for saying you 'might be' rather than are scum with GW?

[The Fonz]

OK, I'm back off my V/LA. Few points:

1) Time away has allowed me some chance to cool off. Still think Mastin's scum, no longer wish him physical injury. He can GTFO for suggesting my anger was fake though. I was literally at the punching walls stage of rage. In addition, please note the hilarity of him calling game-relevant stuff (telling people not to quicklynch) fluff while fluffing himself (his 'can people tell me what names might be on which scumteams' bit, which is of no scumhunting use, and might actually be rolefishing).

2) Do note that with innos on Toog and Amrun, it's more likely than not that EVERY SINGLE name on Mastin's D1 scumlist was town. Maybe one's Earthrealm invader, but obviously we'll see about that if both are still alive in late game.

4) I really don't think Oversoul is scum. He feels so... guileless.

5) This 10-man wagon on a presumed town is likely the most relevant occurrence so far that we can analyse:

CooLDoG (10) - Darox, Albert B. Rampage, Fate, Toogeloo, xRECKONERx, Ghostwriter, Oversoul, Palisade, Internet Stranger, T-Bone

One dead scum there, I think the best avenue for remaining scum is the Pali-IS-TBone part of the wagon.

6) I'm also getting bad vibes from Bogre and Ludi, which I will try to expand on in a later post.

[The Fonz]

Hey Fonz, weren't those initial votes on cooldog due to him begging to jump in and fight Fate. Looking for scum there isn't much better than looking for scum in an old RVS.

Well, if a wagon with no better than random reasoning behind it got to ten, I'd want to give it additional scrutiny. There's motive there for scum to lock CoolDog into the battle before anyone has the chance to go 'Well, really, do we want to do this?' It's all very well thinking it would be lulzy to have CD fight Fate, but the chances are, they were both town and giving them their wish would hurt the town.

It's also the only wagon of any size on a player where we have a good idea of the target's alignment and that wasn't prompted by a guilty result and therefore a no-brainer.

Also, people seem to be acting like Oversoul is basically confirmed scum, and that's a million miles away from being the case, so I don't entirely understand it. He's not done anything that I don't see as being unlikely for a derpy town.

[The Fonz]

Because they are fence-sitting.

Or, because they think there is value in discussion and getting everyone on record, and every vote brings us closer to the point where we all have to stop talking. I mean, SERIOUSLY, do you think for a second I'm on the fence as to whether we should be throwing Palisade into the ring or not?

[The Fonz]

Well, it's post now or forever hold your peace, I think. Kiwi is right about Bogre. It IS scummy to show up and switch your vote to the main wagon with inevitability as your justification immediately after someone points out your nonvoting. Kiwi is another one when i suggest town players use the night phase to check out his past games.

[The Fonz]

No, Palisade is -not- going to be lynched.

Give me any reason why Palisade is a better lynch than Oversoul.

Palisade's scummy, oversoul's just a bit dim.

Wasn't Palisade already hammered? MAJOR posturing on the part of Bogre here.

[The Fonz]

Yes he was. Palisade was at eight, with ten to select a combatant. You voted him, then Darox hammered.

[The Fonz]

Choose: Palisade

[The Fonz]

Lets see

Vote: Internet Stranger

He's been on cruise control this game. Not overly concerned who goes in the ring, or who dies, or who lives. He's just been surfing through the days surviving and not doing much, which is what I would expect scum to be doing.

This is funny, because the above is PRECISELY why I suspect ML himself. He doesn't seem as proactive as he normally is when town, I just feel he's coasting. IS, by contrast, went out of his way to try to force through a Palisade lynch.

And, his comment to not look at the initial bandwagon on CoolDog is definitely wrong, considering that wagon had a higher than usual chance of containing scum who hoped that they wouldn't be considered 'scummy' for joining a 'joke' (/equivalent) early bandwagon. It reads perhaps like he knows that there is in fact scum on the wagon.

He's certainly wrong. Is 'he knew there were scum there and was trying to defend' more reasonable an explanation than 'he didn't think the wagon was particularly relevant or likely to contain scum?'

The scummiest looking part of the wagon (Oversoul, Palisade, Internet Stranger, T-Bone) now has two dead town, and Oversoul's really, really not looking like scum now. That does look really bad for IS.

You know what's also scummy as fuck? This wagon.

Amrun (12) - Mastermind of Sin, Toogeloo, Oversoul, kiwieagle, Nero Cain, Darox, xRECKONERx, Amrun, Bunnylover, Snakeplissken, CooLDoG, zMuffinMan

[The Fonz]

He's certainly wrong. Is 'he knew there were scum there and was trying to defend' more reasonable an explanation than 'he didn't think the wagon was particularly relevant or likely to contain scum?'

The scummiest looking part of the wagon (Oversoul, Palisade, Internet Stranger, T-Bone) now has two dead town, and Oversoul's really, really not looking like scum now. That does look really bad for IS.

Do you mean me with your hanging pronoun of 'he' here? Because, you basically say that my interpretation is illogical (IS knows scum was on that wagon and he himself is scum) and then turn around and agree with me that IS does in fact looks bad.

It's not a hanging pronoun. You'd just said a load of stuff about IS (he's been on cruise control, he's wrong about the wagon) and I was continuing in that vein... well, he's definitely wrong, but I could see a town player thinking like that. My point is that I agree with your conclusion for a different reason, and also suspect you.

How did you decide to chop the wagon into the last four people that joined by the way?

I figured that that was the scummiest part of the wagon, like I said before... people who jumped on late, didn't add anything, and put the wagon altogether too high for a joke.

~~~

You know what's also scummy as fuck? This wagon.

Amrun (12) - Mastermind of Sin, Toogeloo, Oversoul, kiwieagle, Nero Cain, Darox, xRECKONERx, Amrun, Bunnylover, Snakeplissken, CooLDoG, zMuffinMan

You can't just drop this off and not elaborate. Why is it scummy? Who is the scum?[/quote]

Of this lot? Probably Nero. It's scummy because it was a wagon that grew large, without anyone ever coming up with a plausible sounding justification of it, on a player who has been investigated in such a way as to make her more likely town than most.

[The Fonz]

You know what's also scummy as fuck? This wagon.

Amrun (12) - Mastermind of Sin, Toogeloo, Oversoul, kiwieagle, Nero Cain, Darox, xRECKONERx, Amrun, Bunnylover, Snakeplissken, CooLDoG, zMuffinMan

It's scummy because it was a wagon that grew large, without anyone ever coming up with a plausible sounding justification of it, on a player who has been investigated in such a way as to make her more likely town than most.

Let me just step up and disagree loudly.

First of all, Amrun is on that wagon, which should set warning bells off in your head, second, that's a D2 wagon, aka before Amrun was investigated, and third, it was picking a competitor to square off against cop-guilty Weyoun.

Let me re-iterate loudly:

1) Amrun's own vote is irrelevant, does a wagon become immune to having scum on it because someone self-voted?
2) The point is not that people were voting for someone on whom an investigation had been announced, it was that it was on a player we subsequently know isn't a black dragon. We have this wonderful ability in mafia to go back and re-evalute things in the light of new evidence.
3) Valid point, but that doesn't mean it wasn't indicative of a serious level of suspicion (or faked suspicion) toward amrun.

[The Fonz]

If Overtoast flips town, I bet Bogre would be scum.

Though they could both be scum, as that can also be a weak bus.

Holy fuck, how did I miss this? 'If the person most likely to lynched flips town, this guy's scum. And maybe he's scum anyway.'

Vote: CSL

CSL, can you explain a bit of the thought process that led you to flip from Palisade to Oversoul to Palisade again during the Kombat phase?

[The Fonz]

Spoiler: Flavor stuff that's not that important

Oh, I toyed with the idea that it was colour-coded, but here's the thing....

Assume Kira is Black Dragon and Shao Khan is Invader... Why are both their role flips #BF0000? Sure, their names are individually colour-coded (as is every other name), but roles seem to share the same colour code based on alignment. So why are opposite factions flipping the same colour code?

If you look, their role

names

flipped different colors. Also, we had an earthrealm invader cop and a black dragon cop. And Shao Khan flavor wise was EI, and Kira BD.

I'm running on the assumption that Shao and Kira are both Black Dragon, and the other faction hasn't flipped yet. Is there something wrong with that assumption?

Very, very wrong. Black Dragon and Earthrealm Invader aren't arbitrary groups, they're in the flavor . Shao Khan is EI, not Black Dragon.

Yet kira is conf black dragon, and shao khan flipped the same color as her. They're most likely on the same team, one faction or two factions.

Yeah, that's the point I've been trying to make since the start of the day. Everything points towards there being a single scum team (consisting of Invaders - e.g. Shao Kahn - and Black Dragons - e.g. Kira) and an even-night vig, except for the kill flavour on ABR.

This is certainly possible, though it doesn't make a ton of flavor sense. As is a scumgroup without a kill.

This is funny, because the above is PRECISELY why I suspect ML himself. He doesn't seem as proactive as he normally is when town, I just feel he's coasting. IS, by contrast, went out of his way to try to force through a Palisade lynch.

Do me a favor and distinguish between MoS towncoasting and MoS scumcoasting. Does he coast as scum normally, but not do so as town? Or is he being lurky in opportunistic ways?

Look at the bit you're quoting. I'm talking about Magister Ludi here.

MoS, for the record, plays like an asshole as town on a consistent basis, though there are times I've read him as obvtown and this isn't one of them.

I never felt that Palisade was town until he started posting walls.

Then people refused to switch from palisade to oversoul...

The wagon on Palisade was scumdriven.

Unvote; Vote: Oversoul

The wagon

you were on

was scumdriven. Brilliant. Can we kill her yet?

BTW, I refused to switch to Palisade because Oversoul's actions while in the Kombat were screamingly obvtown, and Pali remained scummy. Mastin walling it up to save his ass doesn't impress me.

.

How can you say I was whiteknighting someone who was so obviously town? There wasn't a

single

reasonable argument given for Palisade to be scum. [/quote]

Do you deny that he was very obviously misrepresenting me? There is no way in a billion years what he said was a scumslip actually was. Do you deny that his scumlists seem to have been very, very inaccurate?

Then don't make conclusions on the supposed intent behind my posts when you don't know how I play as town... lawl.

To be fair, what you just said is 'stop scumhunting.' Trying to work out the intent behind someone's posts is what the game's all about.

[The Fonz]

It's not entirely useless. But scummy people still look scummy, which is why I think it's broadly a distraction.

[The Fonz]

Do you deny that he was very obviously misrepresenting me? There is no way in a billion years what he said was a scumslip actually was. Do you deny that his scumlists seem to have been very, very inaccurate?

How much experience do you have playing with mastin?

Let's see. I played in one game when he was lynched D1 as third party but managed to stall the game by walling it up for about twenty pages. I vaguely recall another where I described him as having morphed into 'Mastincopter.' My abiding memory of him is of walls that drained my will to live though.

In regard to CSL, she's been around for too long for me to believe she's that level of derp. I think she was trying to throw suspicion on already-suspected Bogre, but then left herself an out in case he was rival scum. She jumped a popular wagon in Pali with no real reasoning in the first place, then she was ok with putting Oversoul in 'so long as Palisade dies' then she flip-flopped between them and now Oversoul is apparently scum because Palisade was town, or something. It's just scumtacular.

I looked at Bogre, and I don't see it. NC is a decent suspicion, but I'd rather hold out for a CSL wagon.

[The Fonz]

In regard to CSL, she's been around for too long for me to believe she's that level of derp. I think she was trying to throw suspicion on already-suspected Bogre, but then left herself an out in case he was rival scum.

To clarify, since this IS a hanging pronoun, 'he' in the above is Oversoul. CSL left herself an out in case Oversoul flipped rival scum.

[The Fonz]

I WANT NERO IN THE RING.

VOTE. HIM. THEN.

Money/mouth.

[The Fonz]

I will also still stand by my opinion of the CoolDog wagon. You history rewriting bastards KNOW that the wagon wasnt a "joke" wagon. CoolDog ASKED and BEGGED to be put in the ring with Fate. Ok, sure, let them go at it, lets see what happens. Dont act like you assholes were Sherlock Fucking Holmes and had shit all wrapped up before we even started. Scum may or may not jump on a wagon like that. Its bullshit WIFOM and you KNOW it. I dont fucking know who would jump on a wagon like that. Instead of wasting what little brain cycles you have on that shitty inconsequential wagon, you can look at the Palisades wagon since thats really the only untainted pure wagon we have. Anything looking at any other place is an attempt to obfuscate and confuse the town into bad bad bad lynches.

The point we were making is your argument that 'Looking for scum there isn't much better than looking for scum in an old RVS' is absolutely, obviously, derpwrong. Most RVS wagons don't get to ten. If they did, I would take a long hard look at them. CoolDoG was placed three votes from selection on the basis of nothing, zip, nada. Just because he begs to get put in the pit doesn't mean he has to be obliged. At best, supporting that wagon wasn't scumhunting, and I do think, as I've said before, scum are likely to have piled on late to see if they could get it over the top before anyone thought 'Hang on...' Plus supporting the lolCoolDog wagon seems to be an easy way to post and vote without really contributing.

[The Fonz]

The problem with this argument Mr Fonz is that youre giving too much credit to the scum.Havent you ever been scum before? They dont hatch these little cutesy plans where they vote in perfect harmonic dissonance and play a robotic game where they always make the optimal choice. Batman is right, the scum are a bunch of cowards. They arent going to dastardly "jump on the wagon late".

Sure. But I'm not suggesting all the scum jumped that wagon late, just that it's likely at least one did. And the only remaining candidate for that position is you. If you think it's implausible that a scum basically sheeped a shitty townwagon, I don't know what planet you're on- fuck, we already know GW did, earlier on. On a ten-man wagon, random chance would suggest two or three scum. We've found one, and there's three living players who were on it - Darox, Toogeloo, and you. That's balanced by the fact that the attack on you is being led by Ludi, who I suspect heavily, and that your play otherwise has seemed pretty townish- you've had opinions and you've gone to bat for them.

Why dont you have an opinion of Ludi Fonz? Why are you still clutching at the straws of some bullshit CoolDog wagon that didnt go anywhere anyways? Why not examine the Palisade wagon further? Why not ostracize Ludi some?

I clearly do have an opinion on Ludi, I've made it clear that he's one of my top suspects. Like, y'know, here. My top suspects are CSL, Magister Ludi and Nero Cain. This isn't ambiguous.

What also concerns me is that IS pulls out the omgus when I hadn't even attacked him, merely was scumhunting in such a way that might well imply that I might go for him down the road.

[The Fonz]

*Four living players. I forgot Oversoul.

[The Fonz]

Im using reasoning, logic and a steadfast method of catching scum. ie: WHAT I ALWAYS FUCKING DO.

LudiScum is guessing and Muffin is sheeping. Excellent work guys, really. Truly marvelous.

If he's scum, he's not guessing. Just saying.

Though this feels like the traditional crapwagon. Attack someone with bs (not seen any good defence of the notion that IS was 'coasting') then make out that his reaction to being attacked is scummy.

And seriously, did anyone SEE CSL's sheepy and sneaky hop onto the wagon? How are people missing how scummy she is?

[The Fonz]

That said, zM has a point. It's VERY unlikely there were no scum on the Pali wagon, misrepresenting bastard though he was. No reason you can't look beyond those attacking you, even if you do think the push on you is scumdriven.

[The Fonz]

Well no, that's not why you suspected Palisade. I'm not asking for you to try to list 'all the scum.' I'm asking you to take off your tunnelvision goggles for a moment.

[The Fonz]

Or, to put it another way, it's a common feeling among town when you think you're being attacked based on crap that it's some grand scum conspiracy, all those who are most hardcore against you are scum, and stupid town are just following them, but actually, that almost never happens, since players who are really big threats to scum don't get wagoned, they get shot. So I'd say it's incredibly unlikely both zMuffin and Ludi are scum.

[The Fonz]

Option 1: Make an honest-to-God effort to rally people to your chosen wagon.
Option 2: Switch.
Option 3: Be scum.

[The Fonz]

@Bogre: What, if anything does Kiwi currently voting oversoul tell you about your suspicion of both?

[The Fonz]

meh. Internet, I asked you some questions a few pages ago that you never answered. Why do you expect people to answer yours, IS?

You're using 'confirmation bias' wrong. If I had confirmation bias, I would have entered this game thinking you were scum, and then interpreted your actions to match my view. Which I didn't. I looked at your entire actions, today, and put down a vote. Your reasoning is jacked up.

Not really. Confirmation bias doesn't require you to enter the game thinking someone's scum. It requires you to see one or more thing you interpret as scummy, then get into the mindset of being that player's attacker and look at everything they do through the prism of 'Does that make sense for scum?' IE, accusing someone you're attacking of 'flailing' because the attack made them angry, whereas you might take a more neutral view if it was someone another player was attacking (COULD be flailing, but does this player get angry as town? Maybe they think the case against them is BS?)

The reasons against IS are terrible. (His play reminds me entirely of his hydra's play in MWTH, where they were run up day one on playstyle stuff). In particular, the acting like he's sure he's nailed scum but no-one will listen to him. Again, the coasting stuff was untrue, and everything that follows is just caused by him getting pissed off at that.

[The Fonz]

Well if I think someone is scum, that means first I've examined their isolation. I then decided I think there are more things likely to come from scum than town, other wise I would have read him as town and not voted him.

Sure, but what you've done then is taken his reaction to your attack, and attributed to it the scum motivation, when the town motivation is perfectly plausible and fits IS' meta (gets angry when attacked as town).

Yeah, If someone, A, whose alignment I didn't have a read on attacked another player, B, who I didn't have a read on, I would probably be pretty neutral. But, If I had a scum read on player B, who then turned around and attacked A out of nowhere after A attacked him, that would confirm my suspicions against B.

Well, whether or not you thought his counterattack was scummy or not would depend on whether you think the initial case was valid or not. Attacking someone for making valid scumhunting points against you is scummy; attacking someone for attacking you based on bullshit is not. The distinction lies in whether your initial attack on IS was valid or scummy. It was scummy.

And most scum are going to say the case against them is BS. Or not true for reasons x,y,z. The initial reasons weren't terrible. The reasons based on his play since then aren't bad either. He's not at all being run up on day one here over playstyle. unless you mean playstyle to mean every post he has ever made in this particular game. If so, then, yes.

I'm saying the case on him is BS, though. The coasting accusation you made against him wasn't true. He then attacked you for making an untrue assertion about him, which is perfectly reasonable.

[The Fonz]

Hmmmm. That last Ludi post gives me much stronger townvibes than anything he's done to date.

Also, CSL votes, yay! Anyone like to explain what changed since I first made that case about a week ago though?

[The Fonz]

If Palisade hadn't been lynched yesterday, people would have tried to lynch him again today. Oversoul wasn't lynched yesterday, and no one is really pursuing that wagon anymore today. Why?

Because Oversoul's actions in the kombat phase were really, really obviously those of town.

Muffin, what the hell is remotely town about CSL? Lurking and opportunism.

[The Fonz]

He's town because Nero is scum. It's more like "CSL is not scum of the same faction as Nero" than "CSL is town". If there's a single scum faction and no third parties, then I think CSL is town after a Nero scum flip.

Yeah, I know. CSL is lurking. CL is "opportunistic". That's why he's a good counter-wagon for scum to be on. He's an easy lynch.

She. And arguments are 'easy' to make because they're valid and scummy. I find Nero scummy, but there's some evidence of the possibility of actual scumhunting there, no? CSL just slips one vote after another onto a growing wagon and hopes no-one notices.

[The Fonz]

Well, you and Nero were 2/3 of my top suspects all day, so I'm not sure why that would be surprising.

My top suspects are CSL, Magister Ludi and Nero Cain. This isn't ambiguous.

The one player whose alignment I think is largely predicated on yours is Darox- looks scummy in isolation, but I really don't see him scum with you. You've pulled the 'Oh I'm sorry I'm playing badly' card and now the 'Just wait till I flip town' card. Pretty much every argument that raw newbies and scum pull out to try to AtE. You're not a raw newbie.

[The Fonz]

Regardless, point isn't about who's done more in the way of scum hunting, it's about who's actually scum.

And I'm not overly concerned with getting "he"/"she" right.

Scumhunting/not scumhunting is the number one biggest indicator of scum/town. Not quality of argument, not position on wagon. Whether or not someone's making an honest to God effort to find scum and convince people that you've found scum. CSL doesn't appear to have had an original thought all game.

And I don't see why you'd make a point of deliberately getting her gender wrong once pointed out, but whatever. It's pretty obvious she's a girl.

[The Fonz]

I find Nero scummy, but there's some evidence of the possibility of actual scumhunting there, no?

No.

Unless you count his push for Oversoul's lynch.

He asks some questions here and there, but nothing that could really be considered "scum hunting" because he does absolutely nothing with the answers, he pursues none of his "scum suspects" apart from Oversoul, is "scum suspects" have a tendency to vastly change for unknown reasons with no explanation.

Well, let's look at this. He voted Amrun D1. (I don't find votehopping in the early, low-info part of the game to be scummy). The day was cut short prematurely with a modkill. That was followed by two uncontested PR info lynches, by the time we had a choice in who to lynch, then Amrun was investigated not-BD. It doesn't make much sense to keep pushing her after that. Goes after Oversoul, pushes him from there. His other suspect was T-Bone, who died overnight, so obviously that suspicion has gone.

Today he comes out gunning for Oversoul, also points up MOS and CSL as scummy and gives reasons. Shifts later in the day when it's obvious there isn't going to be an Oversoul wagon but there might well be one on secondary suspect CSL, which is good town play.

Actually, looking at it in that context, he doesn't look particularly scummy to me at all any more.

[The Fonz]

How obvious is it, Fonz?

Very. Any male owning an avatar like that should turn in his man card immediately.

[The Fonz]

And incidentally, kiwi is really scummy. Problem is, kiwi is ALWAYS really scummy.

[The Fonz]

Your arguments pretty much add up to 'He doesn't give reasons.'

[The Fonz]

No. Palisade made arguments about me that no-one could possibly believe. I was obviously talking about the thought process of a player who was dead town, so the suggestion that it showed insider knowledge could not have been true. He had to know this - no-one is that stupid. Only scum should lie, so he shoulda been scum. He also scumslipped. Nero is making arguments that aren't, on the face of them, anywhere near that horrible.

[The Fonz]

Palisade's arguments were the least valid possible. They were pretty much the definition of bs. I get angry just recalling them.

[The Fonz]

Choose: CSL

[The Fonz]

My mind boggles that ZM could still cling the the bullshit IS case after its architect was shown to be scum. That said, although I think there was more than just Ludi pushing that, I don't see Muffin tying himself to a partner that tightly. So my best guess would be MOS on the wagon. Off the wagon, Kiwi is a VI but seems to look more scum-VI (doing absolutely nothing) than town-VI (doing stupid and controversial things). Nero wagon feels a bit defaulty.

Vote: Darox

As I said before, he looked scummy but really unlikely to be scum with very scummy CSL.

[The Fonz]

No, LOL. The second one.

[The Fonz]

Although 'not paying attention' is a bit harsh, also. I mean, I just went back and did VCA. That requires serious attention.

[The Fonz]

OK, Oversoul, explain how on Earth forgetting who was nightkilled could possibly be a 'scumslip.' Forgetting something that both town and scum would know is not inside information. Clown.

[The Fonz]

Trying to paint a dead player as scum due to VCA and then trying to play off that mistake is what is scummy.

Uh, what? There's no reason for scum not to know who died, no? In fact they're more likely to know since y'know, they're responsible for the majority of nightkills. It's a mistake town are far more likely to make. I looked at the flip a while ago from my phone, but didn't post. Come to do the analysis today and remember that Ludi died and flipped scum. Naturally, I think "Well this proves that the IS wagon was every bit the scum creation I said it was. Who else on the wagon could be scum? Well, it's not CSL since she flipped town, and I really don't think ZM would tie himself to a buddy like that. Therefore, Amrun or MOS. Amrun's been investigated non-BD, so although she's not clear, it's most likely MOS."

Secondly,

And how is not paying attention a bit harsh? It is exactly what you are doing since you DON'T have to pay attention because you already know who is and isn't scum. The only thing that might save you is the fact that there are more than likely 2 scumteams and the scumteams would want to scumhunt in order to look town. However, I am probably wrong about the 2 scumteams and the kill on ABR/Ludi is probably a more panicy SK with Bunny and Tbone as even night vigilante.

One, you just speculated in thread about who the vig is. THAT is extremely scummy. Secondly, it's possible to pay attention and miss the odd thing.

[The Fonz]

OK, I read it wrong. Retract that last comment. I'm realising what you meant.

[The Fonz]

I'm not assuming crosskill. IF EN vig is possible, both EN and odd vig with the latter holding fire still makes sense. Serial killer, incidentally, makes little sense - that player would have had to be blocked/hit doc-protect twice, and had more than one kill flavour. It makes much more sense to think that the shuriken and burn kills were different people. That's either odd/even night vig, or a scumteam with different flavor for each member.

[The Fonz]

Why would scum kill a miller? That is an easy mislynch or two.

MOS made the point that they might have thought Bunny was a miller PR with her evasiveness over fullclaiming. Of course, he thought she was 'vig bait' until he decided to use it as an excuse to attack me (which is another reason I thought he was scum - his interpretation of the BL kill changed to suit the argument he wanted to make).

Why would a vigilante shoot ABR?

LOL, you're kidding, right?

[The Fonz]

ABR is a player who gets vigged, A LOT.

[The Fonz]

Immediately after claiming a protown investigative role?

Yeah, that's odd. Although if he's telling the truth, scum will target him as well so it's no loss. But in that case, scum have been stopped from killing twice. I guess I'd have expected an RB claim or something, idk. Maybe a doc or a scum RB.

[The Fonz]

Right, since two of you fuckers have so helpfully pointed it out to the scum already, I might as well claim: I'm Scopion, even-night vig, responsible for the Bunnylover (due to her scummy claim-but-not-fullclaim shenanigans, and the apparent conflict between her 'general' miller and Spring's scumgroup specific one) and T-Bone (since I didn't have a lot of time, I just went for a scummy/VI looking player who looked like they would definitely get wagoned the following day) kills.

[The Fonz]

I looked long and hard at your argument, because when someone generally competent is that convinced it's worth giving serious consideration. But I just don't buy it, and CSL was all-world scummy. She pulled pretty much every scum trick in the book - jumping wagons on town with nothing new late on, pulling AtE, lurking, EVERYTHING.

[The Fonz]

CSL wasn't a counterwagon to Nero. At least on my part, it was a counterwagon to IS. I was delighted to have the choice between 2/3 of my top suspects.

As of now, I suspect Darox more. Your case kinda feels house of cards, but oddly I suspected Nero MORE before you started attacking him. Darox was pretty scummy, but what kept him out of my top tier was that I didn't see him as scum with CSL, who was the scummiest player in the game.

[The Fonz]

Thing about Bogre... there's nothing you can say about him that isn't also true of kiwieagle.

[The Fonz]

Because SKs should never, ever, ever claim vig. It paints a gigantic target on their backs. Not to mention that my kills are consistent with me as vig... I mean, who else suspected BL nearly as much as I did?

[The Fonz]

IS can fucking go die in a fire if he really believes what he says about white knights. When I think someone's town and being attacked based on bullshit, I'll defend them and attack their attackers. It's how you find scum.

[The Fonz]

OK, that last post was horrible.

[The Fonz]

By which I mean Nero's, not whoever just ninja'd me.

[The Fonz]

In that scenerio?

Amrun
Darox

Would be my top 2. Amrun for her cofrimation bias and Darox for active lurking.

Confirmation bias is ANYTHING but a scumtell.

Fonz, I am rather dumb.

QFMFT!!!!!

Pfft, Fonz is an obvious Scorpion.

Head burning?
T-Bone of all people getting killed?

Seriously now.

I think that points more to OS being scorpion.

Speculation over identity of vig.

But I'm looking at Fonz/Nero/IS remaining as scum, probably. Bogre needs to flake so he can stop being a wildcard, but everyone else is town enough.

Why are you not SK hunting?[/quote]

Trying to make out that concentrating on scumgroup is scummy when it's the best thing for town to be doing.

IS: No, I don't agree to die just before endgame. Fuck off.

[The Fonz]

IS: No, I don't agree to die just before endgame. Fuck off.

I cant do anything to you except brand you as an even-night SK then.

Are unlimited shot vigs even still around? I thought most vigs were limited-shot now anyways. This selfishness makes you look like an SK and definitely NOT town aligned.

Selfishness? You're suggesting we'd be one from LyLo. So there's two shots to hit scum, and you want me to agree to use one of them on the one player I know for sure isn't scum, plus possibly deny the town a vig shot that night depending on whether it comes on an even or odd day? Too fucking right I won't agree to go quietly into that good night. Nor should any town player.

[The Fonz]

IS: No, I don't agree to die just before endgame. Fuck off.

I cant do anything to you except brand you as an even-night SK then.

Are unlimited shot vigs even still around? I thought most vigs were limited-shot now anyways. This selfishness makes you look like an SK and definitely NOT town aligned.

Selfishness? You're suggesting we'd be one from LyLo. So there's two shots to hit scum, and you want me to agree to use one of them on the one player I know for sure isn't scum, plus possibly deny the town a vig shot that night depending on whether it comes on an even or odd day? Too fucking right I won't agree to go quietly into that good night. Nor should any town player.

Huh? What the fuck are you talking about? Im not trying to direct any of your shots, Mr SK.

Huh? What are YOU talking about? It's incredibly obvious to anyone with half a brain that by shots I mean chances. We'd know that there's scum alive that isn't me (because otherwise the game would be over) and what you're suggesting is that town waste one of its two shots at hitting scum on a town power role to assuage your paranoia. Ain't gonna happen.

[The Fonz]

Right, and that's exactly why I'm not an SK. I've been shooting scummy-looking people, not people who were a threat to my survival.

[The Fonz]

Not true. MOS, for example, has been saying he suspected me. Plenty of people have listed me as secondary suspects at different times. SKs tend to take out good players/obvtowns and leave the survivors comprising themselves and VIs.

[The Fonz]

You're not a threat. Your opinions are completely discredited.

[The Fonz]

Also, shooting people who aren't a detriment to you isn't exactly true. You did kill both the Doctor and a Cop-type character. Not sure about T-Bone, but you seemed to have the vibe that Bunny was more than just a Miller...

@The Fonz: I am not full claiming. You can go to hell with that idea.

Right, check the idea that Bunnylover is scum who is refusing to fullclaim so that she can claim most convenient power role if it looks like she might be lynched.

If by 'more than a miller' you mean 'Scum' then yes.

[The Fonz]

Youre so silly Muffin. If im really the SK and such a huge threat, I would either be a crispy crittered by Fonz or scum killed any day now too. But nooooo, thats not good enough for you Muffin, you want to waste a day wasting a lynch on me instead.

Which doesn't apply to me because...?

[The Fonz]

Not to mention that IS started today by voting zM with the reasoning that he wasn't scum with Ludi but was probably SK. Now the tables turned, he's done a 180...

For whoever asked about why BL and not SL, look at my ISO. Bunnylover was like a zillion times scummier. If she'd admitted she was an Earthrealm Invader Miller, then I probably wouldn't have shot her, but no, she had to try to obfuscate when she should have come clean.

[The Fonz]

Exhibit A, zMuffin who he doesn't think is groupscum but suspects of being SK is 'the biggest threat'

If I had potential to NK you, Nero, you'd be dead.

You know what this sounds like to me? An SK trying to himself from his own role. If fact, Muffin as an SK makes a lot of sense to me. I wish I had thought about this earlier actually.

<Snip>

Muffin is the most dangerous of them all though.

Vote: Muffin

Exhibit B, "Even if I'm the Odd-Night SK, lynching me would be a waste of a day"

Youre so silly Muffin. If im really the SK and such a huge threat, I would either be a crispy crittered by Fonz or scum killed any day now too. But nooooo, thats not good enough for you Muffin, you want to waste a day wasting a lynch on me instead.

Muffin, dude, youre untrustworthy. Seriously. You doublespeak everything that concerns me.

THERE. THERE IS YOUR 180. When the SK is Muffin, the SK is this terrible huge threat, but when it's you, it doesn't matter that much and lynching it would be - your words not mine - to 'waste a day.'

[The Fonz]

*Sigh*

God, are you really that thick?

Early on today: SK is incredibly dangerous and needs to be lynched.
Later: SK lynch would be a wasted day.

All- literally all - that changed is that the discussion was revolving around you rather than Muffin as SK. And do you really expect anyone, like anyone at all, to believe that the SK shooting Ludi the day after he leads a wagon on you is more likely to be the work of muffin than you?

[The Fonz]

Oh and Amrun, I would NEVER EVER play as SK with the intention of claiming vig. Claiming vig as SK is suicidal and moronic. Unless you think I'm a moron, you should pretty much accept that i'm town.

[The Fonz]

It's not wifom. Because for it to be wifom, you have to assume I set out to claim vig as SK, and defend it with wifom. That's retarded, so I clearly didn't do that. Dig up my MD posts about how vig is the absolute last thing an SK should be claiming if you wish.

[The Fonz]

In other news, LOL Darox is still scum. There's absolutely no reason to think that both would have to be SKs.

[The Fonz]

Basically, 2/3 of the 'not votings' need to go in.

[The Fonz]

Why would multiple gimped serial killers make any more sense? One is just as gimped as two, since serial killers are independent.

[The Fonz]

Unvote: Muffin
Vote: Nacho

I am willing to vote Bogre or Kiwi or Fonz the SK at this point as well.

Just to be clear, you're going with 'SK is dangerous' here again? Hmmmm let's see the pattern:

IS accuses zM of being SK = sk is dangerous, and needs to go.
IS is accused of being SK = sk situation will work itself out.
IS accuses me of being SK = sk is dangerous and needs to go.

IS is blatantly, blatantly the odd-night SK. He's playing to survive like anything. Once we've put Darox in, let's throw IS in with him, that way at least if Darox claims power we've got a surefire nontown.

[The Fonz]

The above advocates putting two players not named Darox in the pit. Therefore it is wrong.

[The Fonz]

I'm currently thinking Kiwi or Bogre for vigshot. Kiwi's a VI, but more in the lurk-VI than the 'scumhunts but says stupid things' category than he usually, and there's not been a serious wagon on him all game. Usually when a VI that bad is town, scum will try to pin something on them at some point.

[The Fonz]

See, and this is why the whole 'X VI hasn't died, so no vig' this is so pants on head stupid. There are more VIs than there are shots. Also, it's not my job to shoot stupid people, it's my job to shoot people who look like scum, like Bunnylover.

[The Fonz]

I'm almost certainly going to shoot one of the two. Which kinda makes me want to throw one of them in the pit, since I don't want to shoot an unclaimed, but it's not necessarily ideal to have both claim right now either.

[The Fonz]

Oh, wait, you don't want to shoot an unclaimed, didn't read that right. Whatever, just get whoever you're gonna shoot to claim before you shoot them.

Pitting them against Darox is useless if all you want is a claim and you're gonna lynch Darox anyway.

Right, fine.

Kiwi, claim.

[The Fonz]

Says the guy who's voting muffin on the basis of... what, exactly?

[The Fonz]

I'm not shooting oversoul, ever. He's town.

[The Fonz]

IS, do you think there is scum among the lurkers? If so, which one(s)?

[The Fonz]

See, saying that one of three players is scum doesn't really help. I'm having a hell of a time deciding between Bogre and Kiwi.

I agree that Amrun's "LOOK HOW CONFIRMED I AM OMG HOW CAN YOU EVEN SUSPECT ME" shtick is annoying, but it strikes me as stupid rather than scummy.

[The Fonz]

@ Fonz and muffin-so you disagree that OS is playing like he did http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18300

Yes actually. I meant to link that earlier, thanks for reminding me. Oversoul was obvscum there, I don't get that feeling from him here at all.

The...

second

SK? Strange to call it like that.

Not if you've actually been paying attention to what IS is saying. I mean, granted, why would you because every word is horseshit. But still.

Nero, aside, Darox is not "trying". At all. He active lurked his way through most of the game. He gave reads on like half the players D5, then gave an almost completely different set of reads today (noting that his town read on me yesterday was because MoS + Ludi were alive, which is strange because he barely mentioned them yesterday and certainly didn't give his read on either of them at any point).

And Nero trying is more Nero trying to avoid being the lynch today than anything else.

Trying isn't a town tell.

Totally agree with this.

[The Fonz]

(PS: I'm hardly leading the Darox wagon, but whatever)

Then who is?

Probably someone who's actually voting for Darox.

[The Fonz]

OK, so I just went back and looked at a few ISOs... Nero spent the faceoff screaming about how Oversoul and Amrun are scum. First thing today, he votes Muffin, who'd voted for him in the prior post (saying that Muffin vs OS should be the matchup). Then to IS. Then once a Darox wagon starts growing, he jumps to that. AT MUFFIN's instigation.

Now, Darox is still pretty scummy. He's accusing the town of being lazy, and yet voting for its most active member. There's some pretty fuckin awesome cognitive dissonance going on there.

But, fuck it. Muffin's right, Nero is ABSOLUTELY playing to survive. There's no way his suspicions of OS and Amrun actually disappear like that -given how forceful he was about them yesterday - if he's town.

Unvote, Vote: nero cain

[The Fonz]

Yes, Nero vs Darox is clearly optimal. Let's lock Nero in, then we can wagon Darox.

[The Fonz]

I've also just realized I have no read whatsoever on the Nacho slot. He seriously could have not been in the game for all i've noticed either of them. This needs to be remedied.

[The Fonz]

I'm also starting to think I might vig the survivor then we can deal with kiwi/bogre tomorrow.

[The Fonz]

Why?

[The Fonz]

He likely is. Although we might need his crosskill if things go badly on today's lynch/my shot. And I'm not entirely ruling out Nero being the ONSK and IS just being an idiot, since most of what's scummy about Nero is individual tells rather than ties.

[The Fonz]

Meh. You may or may not be right. At the very least though, I'd be incredibly wary of talking up an SK lynch tomorrow, because it makes it less likely scum will try to crosskill.

[The Fonz]

Well, neither cop could pick him up. So that's inv-immune at minimum.

LOL if I'd been smarter it might have been better to imply to the scum

I

might be an SK and nk-immune rather than making it completely obvious to anyone who's not an actual retard (IS) that I'm town.

[The Fonz]

Scum gameplan at night, you fuckin douche. But seriously, look at the amount of scumhunting effort Muffin is making. Him, GreyICE, and toog are the only ones in the game I have solid town reads on.

[The Fonz]

Wait, what? White Knighting? How the fuck is it that? Are you just pulling random bullshit accusations out of a hat?

[The Fonz]

You think those greyice is town...because she is "scum hunting"?

Who's this addressed to? If you mean me, no, GreyICE is an IS-level douche, but SL simply wasn't scum.

[The Fonz]

I can only vote one at a time. I voted Muffin first. Thats all. I find it stupid how...

(saying that Muffin vs OS should be the matchup).

Yes, you can only vote one matchup at a time. Given that you were asserting that OS and Amrun were obvscum, i would have expected the day to open with a push on one of them. And instead, you vote Muffin, then afterward make what looks very much like an afterthough 'Oh and he should fight OS' post. IE, 'Shit, I just made a big post and didn't mention my previous top suspect, I'd better make a throwaway accusation against him so people don't accuse me of backing off."

then say

There's no way his suspicions of OS and Amrun actually disappear like that

WHEN I FUCKING WANTED OS IN THE RING WITH MUFFIN!!!

That's such a common way for scum to quietly back off of a suspicion in favor of a more convenient one. "No no, I suspected X AND OS, it's just that I only have one vote!" Right, and on the evidence of your ranting yesterday, if it were genuine, you'd have come out of the gate voting for one or other. Maybe even, I dunno, tried to convince other people to vote them?

My suspicion of OS and Amrun never disapeared. In 1395 guess who wasn't in my list of town reads? And then again I argue with Amrun later in the day phase. Then I ask for a vig shot on OS and Amrun. And THEN I posted a link to try and drum up support for an OS wagon.

I never voted for IS. Again Darox was never in my list of town reads in 1395. And in 1473 I reveal that he's my 4th scum read. Theres no support for an OS or Amrun lynch (thier idiot rutine has fooled you and muffin) Darox is the

ONLY

suspect that I can get in the ring.

Right, and if you'd tried to rally support and failed, that would be one thing. But you didn't. You went straight to muffin with an omgus vote without even kicking the tires on OS/Amrun. Then all of a sudden to a previous town read (I don't care if you had a scum read before you had a town read before you had a scum read) because THE PLAYER YOU WERE VOTING told you to, when he just happened to be the counterwagon to you.

Point taken on IS.

[The Fonz]

I mean, there's compromising to get a good lynch rather than holding out for a perfect one, and then there's voting for someone who you yourself just admitted had three different players you 'thought were scummier,' at the instigation of one of those three.

[The Fonz]

====[]

[The Fonz]

Vote: Darox

He's lurking and hoping Bogre says something derpy enough to turn the heat up on himself.

[The Fonz]

Choose: Nero

[The Fonz]

Fonz and Darox are both alive.

I do not understand this.

Choose: Fonz

Why would you shoot an even night killer on an even night? It's not going to stop him killing that night, and it makes perfect sense when several people are pushing moronic 'OMG SK' arguments.

BTW: Reasoning for the kill - I just didn't see scum in Kiwi, the way he claimed. So I did a re-read overnight, and Nacho entered the game absolutely screaming that Nero was scum, but chose Darox in the last Kombat - despite barely ever mentioning Darox at all. That seemed a really obvious indication that he was bussing Nero early, then changed tack when Ludi went down because he couldn't afford to sacrifice a team-mate.

[The Fonz]

Toog, we aren't lynching mafia today, we are lynching the guy who throws shurikens. That guy is IS. Today we lynch IS.

Just ignore Darox for today.

I am legitimately interested in why The Fonz shot Nacho over either option he told us he would do yesterday (Kill Bogre, or Kill Survivor of the Duel).

This, ASAP, though, especially in light of the Nero flip. I swear the last thing he said was he was vigging the survivor of the duel...

I said I was considering it, I would have done that had Nero flipped town. I guess I don't see scum acting the way he did in Kombat - going out of his way not to make a case on the buddy he was put up against, and tunnelling on zM instead. Like I said, on the re-read Nacho screamed scum due to Nero connections.

[The Fonz]

I strongly considered shooting IS(K) as well. Basically, I was caught in about four minds because I knew I couldn't afford to be wrong, so I just went with the player I was most sure was scum.

[The Fonz]

Fonz please shoot OS or Amrum. OS preferably.

Oversoul's town as a result of the Nero flip. The three who voted for Darox are IS, Toog, and the deceased Nacho. I had a strong town read on Toogeloo before, in addition to his investigation - this has probably neutered it.

[The Fonz]

I strongly considered shooting IS(K) as well. Basically, I was caught in about four minds because I knew I couldn't afford to be wrong, so I just went with the player I was most sure was scum.

So instead of shooting someone entirely useless to the town, something you've harped on for ages, you shot Nacho.

Fuck this shit.

Vote: Bogre

Bogre versus Fonz or Bogre versus Darox tonight.

No. That is untrue. I've made repeatedly clear I want to shoot scum, not shoot bad townies. Kiwi claimed in a manner that appeared to lack guile, and Bogre was on the Nero wagon. I was convinced that scum couldn't really afford to, and therefore was unlikely to, bus there, meaning scum on the Darox wagon unless Darox was scum himself. That meant Toog, IS, or Nacho. Toog was a strong town read and had the investigation, IS was probSK, that left Nacho as incredibly likely scum.

[The Fonz]

I was gonna say that, I know Kano's BD, was Nero's role also Black Dragon? Yeah, there were probably only three. I read him as town based on his play... but he hasn't done much that i can recall lately, which is of course the Lord Gurgi strategy.

[The Fonz]

Oh yeah, OS isn't scum. Look at the way Nero treated him as prime mislynch.

[The Fonz]

I'd agree with OS and GI, but I think Bogre's interactions say 'not scum' more than Kiwi's do.

[The Fonz]

Well, here's the thing. I don't know what to think. I just don't see Darox not making any effort at all to distance from his partner, and indeed supporting the exact same townwagon. I'm starting to think maybe the IS/ML thing was a bus. Kiwi COULD be scum - his play is exactly the same as it has been in every lurk-filled, useless, derpy game he's played. I think the most likely scum is someone on the Darox wagon.

The other thing is, I think if you are town and you and I were on the right track with suspecting both of Darox and Nero, one of us would be dead by now.

Actually,

Vote: Internet Stranger

PREVIEW EDIT: I HAD A TON OF REASON TO SHOOT NACHO. LOOK AT THIS POST.

Vote: Nero Cain

God, I love replacing into a game and seeing scum posting useless shit. It just brightens my day right up. Now put me in the ring with this scumbag so I can rip his head off and hold it in the air like a champion belt. I'm surprised not to see the one on one beefs that are have been in every mafia game I've played in my entire life, so I guess scum are being scared and cautious little fucks.

NO-ONE MAKES THIS FUCKING POST THEN VOTES TO SAVE NERO IF THEY'RE TOWN. NO-ONE.

[The Fonz]

@Darox:

Please explain your thinking behind your switch from voting Toogeloo to voting Oversoul day four.

[The Fonz]

I'm missing something.

I don't think Toog is scum,

there's too much stuff in his ISO that doesn't make much sense if he's scum.

Likewise, Bogre's interactions with Nero and Darox (espeically yesterday, but voting patterns on previous days as well) suggests that, if Darox is one of the 2 remaining mafia, Bogre isn't the other.

I need to reassess things.

Expand.

[The Fonz]

I'd agree with OS and GI, but I think Bogre's interactions say 'not scum' more than Kiwi's do.

Oh shut up.

You made your input last night, you shot Nacho.

You wanted Kiwi dead, you put 9 mm of lead in his head. You shot motherfucking NACHO instead. Your opinions are irrelevant.

You are, as ever, completely full of shit.

I don't 'want Kiwi dead.' I will almost certainly vote for either Darox or IS at the end of the day. I am merely stating that Kiwi is scummier than Bogre - because I don't think Bogrescum could afford to bus like he would have done there. At least, not unless Darox is also scum.

I also just remembered what caused my Toog town read: the whole taking one for the team thing. That's really obvious town motivation.

Anyway, there's presumably two remaining groupscum. They are to be found in the following: IS, Darox, Kiwi, Bogre, currently in that order of probability. The SK is likely in that group.

Why won't people fucking well admit that Nacho was scummy?

[The Fonz]

So, Darox or Kiwi? I'm not voting Bogre. Pretty much the only way I see Bogrescum is if Darox is also scum.

[The Fonz]

Oh, does anyone have Magister Ludi meta? Specifically how hard/often he buses?

[The Fonz]

Thanks, OS. I want to do due diligence on whether the ML-IS sparring might have been a planned bus.

[The Fonz]

Prodded? Well, time flies when all there is is lurking, and Darox and IS screaming completely wrong stuff in a way so confrontational that it completely saps my will to post. (There is absolutely zero reason to believe that because one alternating killer is an SK the other has to be, but Darox has just asserted this completely irrational position over and over. Meanwhile, IS claims to think me SK because I wouldn't agree to be lynched in a position where no townie would ever agree to be lynched).

I don't know what to think here. Claiming investigations on three corpses is scummy as fuck. It's almost too scummy a claim to be fake.

I suppose I could buy Bogre as self-aligned. I see no

particular

reason to believe the SK is Bogre over anyone else though. Anyone unclaimed could equally feasibly be the ONSK. I think i'd still rather lynch Darox, who makes sense both as sk or scum.

[The Fonz]

Fonz: Do you seriously believe that in a 25 player game, with multiple killers, where Serial killers already have a tough time, that there is one serial killer with his killing ability halved?

See, this is what's pants on head retarded about your argument. Why is 'SK which can only kill every other night' any harder for one, than two? Whether there's a second SK or not hardly makes any difference to the ONSK's chances of winning. It just means a second player with little chance of winning. And yes, obviously I believe that, because I got a town role PM.

Also: we should definitely massclaim first thing tomorrow.

[The Fonz]

Choose: IS

[The Fonz]

Vote: The Fonz

Fonz is a serial killer off his leash.

He was supposed to kill Bogre or Kiwi ALREADY, and he killed Nacho.

SK off the leash doesn't get to live

I was 'supposed to' how? I suggested I might. It's not like town was directing me, and I refused to comply. Everyone was lobbying for their own favored scum candidate. I changed my mind as to who the most obvious scum was as a result of the Kombat stage.

I am not, and am clearly not, an SK. Since I believe your claim, I have to suppress the natural instinct to call you scum for this bullshit, and settle for 'derp.' It's a particular antitown derp though, because obviously mafia's #1 priority is going to be getting rid of me today.

GreyICE, Toog, and Oversoul look like town to me. That means any and all remaining scum are in Darox and the lurkers. I'm going for Darox first.

Vote: Darox

Also, massclaim. Now.

[The Fonz]

I am going to try and gambit to save my life...

Wish me luck?

I was going to gambit as a Vanilla townie to hopefully absorb a nightkill away from a power role or something. I meant to PM that to DH, but didn't realize I hit quote instead of PM.

Oversoul, please explain the discrepancy between 'Gambit to save my life' and 'Gambit to draw the NK' which are completely opposite motives.

[The Fonz]

Beautiful derp Fonz.

If Mafia wanted you dead so badly they'd just shoot you last night. Well, if you weren't bulletproof.

*sigh*

You're missing my point. I'm not saying they kept me alive because I'm a powerful town role. They're keeping me alive because I'm a powerful town role AND an available mislynch, whereas zM was just a powerful town role. LOL SK is a very easy case to make. Oh, and they might well have suspected me of being bulletproof as well. I'm not, obviously, but there's no way to prove that without getting shot.

You shoot anyone other than who we tell you to, and I lynch you tomorrow regardless if that loses the town the game.

Who is 'we' exactly? I'd have had less problem if you'd said 'I'. 2/5 of those who aren't me or you are scum, assuming you're town which I strongly believe. More to the point, I'm minded to not shoot at all tonight. Certainly, if we lynch right, I won't - we'll have, assuming an NK, 5-1 going into night. Scumkill leaves 4-1, two shots at scum. A miskill would both cost us a lynch, and make the remaining lynch less likely to hit scum by virtue of a 4p rather than 3p endgame (one more available mislynch). As for if we mislynch, then us mislynching and me miskilling will lose the game. The question is if y'all trust my accuracy more than the chances of hitting with a lynch that would require town unanimity.

[The Fonz]

DH will almost certainly state that he cannot comment on specifics of role pms that may or may not be in the game.

[The Fonz]

Kiwi, head out of ass please, on the small chance you're town.

[The Fonz]

I'll only kill the other if the first one flips town.

Oversoul, pay some fucking attention, will you? No-one is currently voting me. Darox is at L-1, GreyIce has one vote.

You also didn't mention Bogre. Am I to assume you think KE is scummier?

PE: IF we lynch scum today, me not shooting will give town lynches at 4-1 and 2-1. If I shoot and miss, we only get one lynch at 3-1. I tend to think two lynches is better than a lynch and a vig shot.

If we lynch town, OTOH, then me not shooting will require town unanimity to hit scum. That's not impossible, since there's kind of a subset of suspects and a subset that aren't, really. But it's not necessarily better than just having me shoot the most suspicious player.

[The Fonz]

I am paying attention. People were saying to put Fonz in there with the first choice. I was addressing those posts.

One person said that, and he switched before you posted.

[The Fonz]

There are 3 killing flavors still alive in the game. Head Devourer, Bed of Spikes, and Burnt to Death. Burnt to Death is Fonz, claimed as the Vig. That means the other two flavors are the remaining Mafia (which have been deduced as Shang Tsung and Reptile/Mileena).

Claims-wise, we have:
Toogeloo -Jax, VK
Fonz - Scorpion, Vig
Oversoul - Stryker, VK
kiwi - Fujin, VK

Only Bogre and Darox haven't claimed, afaik, unless I missed both of their claims somewhere.

Bogre pretty much softclaimed by saying he didn't mind being vigged. Power roles never say that. Regardless, they both need to claim.

[The Fonz]

Vote: Fonz

It makes sense for a serial killer to do his best to eliminate the mafia group and pretend he's a vig, especially when said serial killers targets are very obviously telegraphed to the entire game.

I really like the contrast between pre-outed Fonz and outed Fonz too.

Predictable as fuck.

[The Fonz]

Don't worry Fonz you're safe you can discredit me with all your heart and these chumps will just roll with it.

Discredit is a fine choice of word, since that's what you've been trying to do to me (and Muffin) for the last couple of days.

You'd think a town player in your position would have at least some interest in figuring out who the mafia are. But really, you're not even pretending to have town interests at heart, are you? It's just going to be 'LOL SK' from hereon in. You've done exactly what I'd expect cornered scum to do, and you're not even really making an effort because you know you're cornered scum.

[The Fonz]

Right, I've figured it out. If we lynch right, I'm holding fire. If we mislynch, I'm shooting, because I think me firing once accurately followed by no lynch with two town having to choose right is more likely to come off than three town having to all choose right followed by two town choosing right.

[The Fonz]

This does of course mean I get to be the total goat if i get it wrong again. Daarrrrrgh.

Please, for the love of God, can obvscum actually flip scum this time.

[The Fonz]

God, scum really are going for the full-on lurk to sap town morale and stop there being ANYTHING to differentiate between the town and scum lurkers, and the town is consequently playing into their hands. Ah well, as you wish.

Vote: Kiwi

It's still better than having to listen to Mastin and IS.

Ed: LOL, and having waited for over a day, I get ninja'd.

[The Fonz]

Choose: Darox

[The Fonz]

Yeah... players getting rewards for winning combats would have been kind of awesome. Although actually, thinking about it, the way it would have played out would have been that Mastin got power, so, fuck that. And fuck Mastin eternally.

[The Fonz]

MOS. Fuck you. You're a cunt. Die in real life.

[The Fonz]

Fonz, it is just a game. You take it way too seriously and are unnecessarily mean to people once the game is over.

No. MOS is unnecessarily mean to people. He thinks his shit don't stink, and he's a fucking tool. What purpose is there to post that except to cause aggro? He's a fucking gigantic douchebag egomaniac, and that's all there is to it.

And yes, I take it too seriously. This is not new. Like I said, I literally wanted to do physical harm to mastin.

[The Fonz]

Incidentally, T-Bone is the only shot I regret. I didn't have time to read overnight, so I just tried to get rid of a lurk/derp type player that seemed certain to come under serious fire the next day. Bunnylover could have saved herself very easily by simply admitting she was an earthrealm invader miller.