Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[Beefster]

VOTE: jmurph because you caught me as scum in a newbie game once.

[Beefster]

1] Why did you decide to give mafiascum a try?
2] How do you react to people attacking you?
3] What will you be known for in this game?
4] What is your time zone?
5] How frequently can we expect you to post?

1- IRC mafia lead me to this site and I wanted to mod a theme game.
2- I really only clarify. If someone actually has a valid point, I acknowledge it and move on.
3- Popping in randomly with absurd ideas that may prove useful at unexpected times.
4- Mountain (GMT -7)
5- once/day, more on Tuesdays.

[Beefster]

I'm gone for a day and there are already 12 pages...

I don't have time to catch up now, but I think it's safe to assume that the RVS is over.

Unvote

[Beefster]

Unvote

Vote: Beefster

i read the quote wrong and obviously can't edit.

beefster, explain yourself.

RVS. I played with him once. He was a cop. I was actually town, lol. End of story.

[Beefster]

VOTE: kendall

Very aggressive, when called out goes 'oh well this is the way I play making opinions known is protown' blah blah blah. He's trying to be Alpha Dog, and this early in the game I find that rather suspicious.

I agree with this sentiment.

[Beefster]

Flavour Analysis' wall
I have a rather time-consuming job, so I can really only post a little on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays, and Mondays, though you should be getting more memorable posts on Tuesdays. Doing my best here

While I don't really agree with your reads, I really appreciate how well you explain yourself. No secrets here. Town++

It's too early to be bothered by loads of null reads, which I normally despise- I feel like it's a waste of time to give a list of players you're unsure about, though I find it a lot more suspicious when I see a player "analyze" the entire player list with mostly null reads halfway through day 2. That just reeks lazy scum.

Anyway...

I don't like kendall's interaction with Flavour. kendall: Scum++

I feel like kendall is too up in arms about everything and is afraid of getting lynched. Newbtown++, Scum++
But is also unusually aggressive... Scum++

a push vote is understandable, if it's retracted once the player has responded to satisfaction. however, i believe that it is anti-town to not vote for who you believe to be mafia. it serves the best interest of the town to be voting for who you think is most likely to be mafia. if you think someone is mafia, but vote for someone who you think is less suspicious, that could hurt the town. it makes no sense to vote for one person, when you believe someone else is more likely to be mafia.

Good point, but doesn't really count since it's a stock phrase... Newbtown++, Scum++

Words of Wisdom from mikehart
Note point Four.

Notable effort from mikehart Town++

maybe it could be considered WIFOM, but regardless it worked. i posted aggressively and have immediately been targetted by members under the assertion that i am "too pro town" i assure you at least one of them is mafia. i think bobsnox is mafia.

I have a TF2 analogy for you. Some allied sentries are under slight fire, so you see an Engineer approach a sentry from a really weird location. It looks helpful, but then a few seconds later, after momentarily looking away, you see a sapper on the sentry. Why didn't you shoot the obvious spy?

kendall appears to be the leader for scum points
VOTE: kendall

Meh. I'll get to pages 9-12 later. Good enough for now.

[Beefster]

@bobsnox

, the only "

evidence

" that you have "against me" is that my actions are too pro-town. that evidence certainly does not incriminate me; in fact, it does the opposite.

Nice strawman. It's not that you're

too protown

but that you're

trying too hard

. You are trying to seem protown. Big difference. Minimizing the distinction is scummy.

I'm even more satisfied with my vote. Especially when your response is to tout yourself as being super helpful and super protown etc etc when it's day one and very little has happened yet. You certainly haven't caught scum since your vote is still on me.

Basically all you've done is intentionally prop yourself up as the epitome of townieness. The keyword is intentionally. You shouldn't have to do that or even worry about that if you're really town. Your play should speak for itself. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who reads that as a huge scumtell.

Excellent point. You just explained exactly what I have been seeing.

[Beefster]

if i haven't done anything anti-town, i don't see how you can logically think i am mafia. if you haven't found my posting to be good for the town, explain why. don't just post things, back up what you say. provide specific examples of what i've posted that is not good for the town and why.

if you fail to do that, your argument is null because there is not one.

arguments need supporting evidence. you have failed to provide that.

Scared scum is scared.

[Beefster]

@kendall:

Play better or replace out. Regardless of alignment, a bad player can ruin all other players' experiences- bad town will lead to a mislynch, and bad scum ruins the fun.

I apreciate that you've calmed down a bit.

Kendall is absurdly paranoid. Newbtown++, Newbscum++

This post is a good break from opening
You caught a solid inconsistency there: Scum--, Town++
You're starting to calm down: Newbscum--
Flavour: Town--, Scum++

Time to find a new target. I read more, and I need to look at other candidates anyway.

unvote

Not to mention the newbtown vibe I've also been getting from a handful of posts.

*looks at an ongoing game*
*sees that PeregrineV was scum in said game*
PeregrineV is playing totally differently. Town++

I'll read more later.

[Beefster]

I don't like beefsters point system but.... w/e. Hes probably not going to change for me.

It's an experiment, I guess. I just kinda started doing it this game. We'll see how it works.

[Beefster]

Anyways.

I believe Beefster isn't really reading closely enough. He believes he saw Kendall catch a contradiction, when it was really a misunderstanding from Kendall. Slightly scummier from him... Has anyone else besides Jmurph played with Beef?

You Guess? Beef, tell me your thoughts on this post right now.

I'm still behind by a few pages. So it makes sense that I didn't catch everything. I rarely read very closely anyway. My suspicions are usually based on recurring patterns and posts that stick out.

[Beefster]

I can't believe that I'm suspected for not catching up quickly enough. I'm on page 14 just so you know.
I have a job, and if you guys can't slow down and post less fluff, I will probably need to replace out.

[Beefster]

Would anyone be willing to start a wagon with me on Peregrine?

Vote: peregrine

No. Peregrine is town. Period. Didn't you see that beautiful post of his?

[Beefster]

Okay. I skimmed through this whole thing through a phone, so I'm definitely gonna re-read it. I didn't really like kendall and saw that she replaced out. However, since kendall replaced out, I'll give her replacement a chance to defend themself.

UNVOTE: k e n d a l l

I don't like this. Kendall's slot isn't even close to a lynch, and you don't like her slot. Yet you're unvoting? Her replacement can defend himself with votes on him, and indeed, SHOULD have votes on him if he's supposed to worry about defending himself.

UNVOTE: donjosh
VOTE: sodaspirit17

Way to unvote your scumbuddy and vote someone irrelevant. Fortunately, I have a vote, too!

UNVOTE beefster

VOTE: Donjosh

I don't understand this... If bobnox did something you dislike, why did you switch your vote to Donjosh? PREASE EXPRAIN.

[Beefster]

Anyways.

I believe Beefster isn't really reading closely enough. He believes he saw Kendall catch a contradiction, when it was really a misunderstanding from Kendall. Slightly scummier from him... Has anyone else besides Jmurph played with Beef?

How is missing details a scumtell?

With posting this fast, it's really difficult to catch everything- and I don't have endless heaps of time to dedicate to playing mafia. (fortunately this is the only game I'm in.) Seriously, though. I'm on for like an hour a night, and I have other things I want to use my time for. Please be more casual about this.

[Beefster]

Beefster:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3300035
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3301728

This point system with its cure multi facets really boils down to "When I vote you you are town or scum." "When I unvote you you are town or scum" with this smoke and mirrors game around it. I dont like it and I dont like it in that kill it with fire sense. Or, Dead++ if you will.

Clearly not a popular system. I thought it was being a little less oblique, but whatever. I shall henceforth use words to explain myself. *sigh*

I like objectifying things too much. And I tend to be clumsy with words... and communication.

BTW: I like the Ray wagon better. I don't see what's so bad about Umbrage. I'd like to keep an open mind and take a look at other players before picking my next target.

I'm starting to like the idea of a Flavour wagon; I'm not liking the micromanagement. I feel like he's just been collecting opinions from the town in order to appear friendly... Or something to that effect. Don't you find it a bit weird that he hasn't said much about his voting targets since the votes themselves?

What's up with the DonJosh wagon? I feel like it's come out of nowhere. This is kinda what I've been seeing:
-Player A: <something unusual and vaguely scummy>
-Player B: I think you're acting funny. Vote: Player C

[Beefster]

VOTE: Don

Flakier than frosted flakes, made a total of 6 posts, seen him very active on the boards, get back or get out. Your choice.

Flaking is a nulltell. I've seen flaking about the same from all alignments.

Just for that, I'm feeling uneasy about you. Looking for an easy target, eh?

[Beefster]

I took a closer look at Ray. And I change my mind. I've seen his type of playstyle before and it doesn't strike me as scummy.

To be honest, I'm more iffy about Flavour Analysis.
VOTE: Flavour Analysis

[Beefster]

Any posts in particular that make you feel "iffy?"

In general:
-Posts where they ask questions to several people at once.
-They aren't really putting their money where their mouths are.
-I feel like FA has been asking all the questions, but has done little to formulate their own opinion. There's been a lot of surveying from them, but very little actual scumhunting; most of their questions have been indirect.

Specific posts:
Post 152- A post of some reads. Analyzes a mostly RVS wagon and then proceeds to vote Umbrage with little cohesion. Presses to get players posting- not necessarily pro-town.
Post 161- Says that bob is scummier, but continues a vote on Umbrage. What?
Post 245- I don't like their point on DonJosh. They make little mention to Umbrage after that point.
----

For meta purposes: who are FA's heads?
I forgot to ask that earlier.

[Beefster]

I also realize that Post 161 was semi-refuted later, but I still don't really understand the logic.

[Beefster]

Any posts in particular that make you feel "iffy?"

In general:
-Posts where they ask questions to several people at once.
-They aren't really putting their money where their mouths are.
-I feel like FA has been asking all the questions, but has done little to formulate their own opinion. There's been a lot of surveying from them, but very little actual scumhunting; most of their questions have been indirect.

Specific posts:
Post 152- A post of some reads. Analyzes a mostly RVS wagon and then proceeds to vote Umbrage with little cohesion. Presses to get players posting- not necessarily pro-town.
Post 161- Says that bob is scummier, but continues a vote on Umbrage. What?
Post 245- I don't like their point on DonJosh. They make little mention to Umbrage after that point.
----

For meta purposes: who are FA's heads?
I forgot to ask that earlier.

-I do that to spread my leads out, and to develop my reads. This is D1 so I won't have specific reasons to ask a smaller pool of people questions.
-We have, it's just that both our voting targets hadn't either a). Responded to our pressure or b.) Posted content after committing the action which was suspicious (IE: Donjosh)
-After the Kendall wars, I tried to re-direct the town towards good discussion, instead of more Kendall garbage. I have done enough to formulate my opinion.Then what is your opinion?

Post 152

- Analyzing the RVS wagon, how is this scummy? Voting Umbrage instead of Bob at the time, why is this scummy? Pressing for activity, how is that scummy? I feel like the post lacked cohesion. Your shortest paragraph seemed to be on your scumreads and you wrote a lot more about your null reads. I don't really understand why you wouldn't vote your top scum suspect. (Actually most of that point was recapping the post; I thought it was self explanatory. Never mind that, I have a weird thought process.)

Post 161

- If you saw it refuted, why exactly don't you understand the logic? Why haven't you asked me about it? Why didn't you just explain your logic right there. Nice dodging, I must say.

Post 245

- Why didn't you like the point on DJ, and how is that scummy? At the time I voted Umby, I voted him for his second post into the game (which he just posted). I was expecting a reply to my vote, but never got one (I didn't know he was VI, thought he would have done better seeing the 2010 join date), and I moved on to looking at opportunistic scum. [Donjosh, Ninty, Mikehard] How is this scummy?
I don't understand why you think his comment was a "reaching attack." I find it incredibly odd that you make the vote on the shortest paragraphed player. It looks like you have a better case on the other players you addressed, yet you voted none of them. Buddying?

Stop asking "How is this scummy?" You can't just write off every point by making it look like it isn't a legitimate point.

Hydra is Ranmaru/July.

Questions for you

:

What is your read on Mb53? Leaning scum.
What is your read on Glowball? Town.
What is your read on Rainbow Dash? Leaning scum. I don't exactly know how to explain it, though.
What is your read on Mike Hard? Town. Nothing he has done strikes me as genuinely scummy.
What is your read on Snakeside? I don't recall any posts from him, so Null for now.

Responses in Out of Character Commentary
Your questions to me demonstrate exactly what I was talking about. Nearly all of the questions you've been asking are on people's reads, and only a few of your questions have been about people's actions. I really don't like this.
I don't feel like you've been building cases; it looks more like you say a few words about a player, vote them, then pretend like that never happened and go back to your surveying. There's little cohesion between your posts.

[Beefster]

BTW: my read on PeregrineV regarding mb53's post was in reference to this post full of wisdom and win. It was a half-joke, meaning I legitimately think Peregrine is town, due to meta, though I'm still open to changing my opinion.

[Beefster]

DonJosh

(9)- Flavour Analysis, SnakeSide, glowball, NanookTheWolf, SpyreX, Rainbowdash, Bogre, SodaSpirit17, PeregrineV

The DonJosh wagon reeks of scum. Particularly FA, Bogre, RD, Soda, and SnakeSide in descending scumminess.

I'm leaning scum on SnakeSide. I've seen plenty of SnakePlissken's play, though not much of farside. It looks like farside is the dominant head, so I'm not gonna rely much on meta.

[Beefster]

Bad post from RD- full of inconsistency. First, you say that Umbrage is right about multiple factions, then you condemn him for it. I don't really understand.
How is my post OMGUS? I voted FA first. (I could understand (MAYBE) WIFOM, but that is seriously stretching it)
To be honest, I was actually going partly on other players' reads regarding Soda, though I also remember a few posts from him that I disliked. Just because he isn't voting me doesn't mean I can't suspect him. Though now that I think of it, I might have confused him for another player.
What exactly makes my cases ineffective?
Fail logic is fail.

FoS: RainbowDash

Post 639

Why didn’t you respond to the first two points?

I forgot and/or didn't feel they required a response. I'm more inclined to think it was the former. I'll re-examine that for you.

Please use bullet statements. I rather dislike heaps of reads lumped into single paragraphs. Please try to be transparent here. Communication is vital for a healthy town.

Could you at least quote/link to the posts you made that explain your reasoning? I really don't have the time to search for your reasoning. I really don't like the "I've already explained it" attitude; it allows you to withhold information.

Can you explain why you believe Mb5, Rainbow, and Snakeside to be scum? Reasons I asked you these reads was because you hadn't really given much thoughts on others, and you seemed to focus on Me/Kendall while catching up.

Is gut a good enough reason for you? I'm usually not very good at articulating my reasoning for reads.

Stop surveying and start actually scumhunting. Asking for reads isn't scumhunting; It's asking for a shopping list. If July does the cases, shut up for a bit and let her do a few cases. CASES, not reads.

Nope.

He's too townie.

I don't see why scum would deliberately give up on Day 1.

I did it.

Newbie game.

It's so ridiculous that it almost always works...and in this instance, I am going to vote hop back given DonJosh's last statement.

Note the bolded. You just lost some credibility there. Newbie games are totally different from theme games.
DonJosh is town. Gut says so.
The wagon on him makes no sense whatsoever and I'm pretty sure a good amount of it is scum. I would bet on at least 3 scum.

I'm unsure about both Umbrage and glowball:
-Leaning scum on Umbrage
-Leaning scum (more) on glowball
-Likely of different factions.
-Not necessarily both scum.
-I'm fairly sure at least one of them is scum.
Sure it looks a bit wishy-washy, but isn't that the definition of "unsure?"

[Beefster]

You forgot? How about my other points in my #639? I’m going to assume you actually conceded to my points and just didn’t address them.

Yes, I forgot. I rarely comment on posts in the order they were written; I'm a little scatterbrained. For example, I wrote this part after commenting on the next quote. So in the other post, I started from the middle, looked around and commented here and there, and ended up missing the two comments at the top. I can reconsider them if you want...

I like to use bullet points, but not for that, sorry. (I don't like to over-use bullet points) I am transparent, but I feel that is too big of a paragraph to put it all in bullet points. Plus I like it that way, it looks neat. I find Bullet points to be better to summarize main points, but that was me giving you my opinions in a paragraph manner. I will post reads further in a bit, in a much neater fashion.[/ooc]Really? It seems like a perfect time to be using bullet statements. Big paragraphs are rarely a good thing IMO, except in books.

A lot of people won't read intimidating paragraphs like that. You could have at least separated each player into their own paragraphs. I feel like you're trying to be cryptic without technically being cryptic. I try to keep paragraphs clear and defined and avoid going over 3-5 lines.

Yes. 165, 268, and 373.

I don’t really like you vaguely asking about something I have explained many times, due to you not reading closely enough. Now tell me, from seeing those posts, what exactly didn’t you understand about my logic?[/url]The linked posts actually explained things quite well. I skim, sorry.

No, gut is not good enough. I’m sure you noticed something that gave you those vibes, can you at least point to a post or particular statement that made your gut go “OH NO DATZ BADDD”?

Sorry, no. I'm not giving you any more fuel. Make your own cases.

I typically react to general patterns rather than specifics, and often times, I can't really explain why certain patterns disgust me until someone else finds the words I was looking for. It's rather inconvenient, as it often (incorrectly) makes me look like scum.

Also, you had Snakeside as null, but then switched her to scum pretty quickly, what exactly made you change that?

I said "null for now" due to lack of info on my end- then read them later and decided on a light scum read.

...this is the way I scumhunt...

Meta please.
You can't ask questions all the time, y'know.

[Beefster]

lol, fail. Let's try that again, shall we?

You forgot? How about my other points in my #639? I’m going to assume you actually conceded to my points and just didn’t address them.

Yes, I forgot. I rarely comment on posts in the order they were written; I'm a little scatterbrained. For example, I wrote this part after commenting on the next quote. So in the other post, I started from the middle, looked around and commented here and there, and ended up missing the two comments at the top. I can reconsider them if you want...

I like to use bullet points, but not for that, sorry. (I don't like to over-use bullet points) I am transparent, but I feel that is too big of a paragraph to put it all in bullet points. Plus I like it that way, it looks neat. I find Bullet points to be better to summarize main points, but that was me giving you my opinions in a paragraph manner. I will post reads further in a bit, in a much neater fashion.

Really? It seems like a perfect time to be using bullet statements. Big paragraphs are rarely a good thing IMO, except in books.

A lot of people won't read intimidating paragraphs like that. You could have at least separated each player into their own paragraphs. I feel like you're trying to be cryptic without technically being cryptic. I try to keep paragraphs clear and defined and avoid going over 3-5 lines.

Yes. 165, 268, and 373.

I don’t really like you vaguely asking about something I have explained many times, due to you not reading closely enough. Now tell me, from seeing those posts, what exactly didn’t you understand about my logic?

The linked posts actually explained things quite well. I skim, sorry.

No, gut is not good enough. I’m sure you noticed something that gave you those vibes, can you at least point to a post or particular statement that made your gut go “OH NO DATZ BADDD”?

Sorry, no. I'm not giving you any more fuel. Make your own cases.

I typically react to general patterns rather than specifics, and often times, I can't really explain why certain patterns disgust me until someone else finds the words I was looking for. It's rather inconvenient, as it often (incorrectly) makes me look like scum.

Also, you had Snakeside as null, but then switched her to scum pretty quickly, what exactly made you change that?

I said "null for now" due to lack of info on my end- then read them later and decided on a light scum read.

...this is the way I scumhunt...

Meta please.
You can't ask questions all the time, y'know.

[Beefster]

@FA: You have way too many null reads in #639. You're definitely fencesitting and surveying to base your cases/votes on the most popular opinions. Definitely a scum tactic.

[Beefster]

And because you asked:

Any posts in particular that make you feel "iffy?"

In general:
-Posts where they ask questions to several people at once.
-They aren't really putting their money where their mouths are.

-I do that to spread my leads out, and to develop my reads. This is D1 so I won't have specific reasons to ask a smaller pool of people questions.

The point was in reference to your surveying. The way you do it looks like scum trying to collect opinions in order to operate as the "popular guy" that tries to please everyone at the same time.

-We have, it's just that both our voting targets hadn't either a). Responded to our pressure or b.) Posted content after committing the action which was suspicious (IE: Donjosh)

The point was mainly on lack of cohesion in posts. You place your vote, then talk about everyone else, then occasionally return to your vote target with a couple sentences... and so on. Probably not the best wording of the point, so I got an undesired response.

I wish you'd use more context in your responses. It's kind of annoying/confusing finding the post you were commenting on.

@Ray: We can nominate the question-answerer at L-3 or so.

[Beefster]

SiTMoA II - Town
OoT Mafia - Town (replaced in)
Man. It's been quite some time since I was last mafia.
Carnie Mafia - Mafia Goon is my most recent IIRC.

As for FA: I've only compared your town play, (since Smashboards doesn't have ISOs) but I can say that the general nature of your surveying is different. In this game, your questions are quite indirect- regarding other players' reads. In other games, you still ask a lot of questions, yes, but they are far more direct. The distinction strikes me as scummy.

I feel like your defenses have been lazy- with a "right back at ya" attitude. You've really just been deflecting my points.

[Beefster]

I always ask people about reads. Expand on my questions being 'direct'. Which games did you look at?

By direct, I mean you ask a question about a player's play directly to the player you don't like. Example: Player A is acting scummy, so you ask a question to him that is directly about his suspicious behavior. I noticed more of this in your games as town and almost none of this in this game.
Indirect is more like asking a player you don't suspect about their opinion of one of your suspects. Example: Player A is acting scummy, so you ask Player B about their opinion on Player A. I'll admit you do this quite a bit in your town games, but you've been playing indirectly almost exclusively in this game. I saw clear opinions and cohesion of suspicion in your town games.

Does it really matter which games I looked at? (you could easily use whatever response I give to your advantage by selectively declaring certain ones as invalid.) I can tell you they weren't newbie games nor were they on smashboards.

I don't like your defense one bit:
-Defense by denial- Instead of actually refuting my points, you deny that any of them are valid and/or deny that you ever did what I accused you of.
-Deflection- we all know what this is.
-Irrelevant comebacks- Questions such as "Which games did you look at?"
-Forceful Meta- You say "I always play like this" even though there are subtle, yet clear differences in play.
-Overdefensiveness- Treating requests as points. I asked you to be more transparent and then you denied being unclear and cryptic without even considering my perspective. Not to mention that it was A REQUEST, not an actual point on you. (Well being cryptic was)

[Beefster]

Everyone

: I want thoughts on this.

It's just WIFOM. Leave it alone. There are intentions for both alignments, and it really isn't worth it to speculate. Let PeregrineV have his power, town or mafia. There's nothing we can do about it without wasting a lynch on some stupid WIFOM.

[Beefster]

And one more point on FA:
-Hypocrisy: A few times I have refused to fulfill a request from him and he wails on me for it. Then he deflects my questions here and there.

[Beefster]

@Beefster: Why is aggressive behavior scummy and not null?

It depends on the context. Isolating that question like that is pretty worthless. It really depends on how a player is being aggressive.

[Beefster]

@

Beefy

:

I have directly interacted with my suspects. Bob, MikeHard, Ninty, DonJosh, you, Mb53, Glowball, and Hiraki. MB53 isn't really posting much and I expect more from him. Umbrage is the only exception, because he has ignored my pressure, and I noticed that going into an argument with him wouldn't benefit much. I also liked his push on Glowball. Don't like that he also STILL deflected from her original question.

Your suspect list is spread REALLY thin. I could understand 4, maybe 5 suspects, but 8 Suspects? That's just excessive, even for a large theme game.

You also ingored the other half of my point. You have not said anything about your indirect questioning. Yes, you

have

made direct questions, but the vast majority of your questions have been indirect.

Yes. Back up your points with examples.

Gladly, if you'd do the same.

I have refuted your points. You then ignore them, repeat your original points and state my first rebuttal is 'undesirable' without explaining why. This is very vague. Are you serious? I thought a generic explanation was plenty good. Is it even possible to satisfy your wants for activity?
I have not deflected, in fact you are deflecting yourself from your own case on me to a case of 'defensiveness'. You haven't even responded to the points you missed. Please do. Which ones? I don't have the time to dig for the points I missed.
That is not an irrelevant comeback, it is important to ask where you looked at, and it is related to this case, how is it irrelevant? It doesn't matter what meta you looked at. Meta is meta. I already explained my other reason.
No difference, my play is the same and you even admit that. You're omitting half the story here. Yes, you always ask lots of questions, no they are not the same nature
I have been transparent. You can read a paragraph, don't be silly. I like that format because it's neat. I will choose how to use my time. If I don't want to read a paragraph, I won't. I am a major believer in tl;dr.

More defense by denial. (More comments in ooc)

Try at least considering my perspective before denying my charges instead of just writing it off as "not well enough explained." You will probably never be satisfied with my reasoning because I'm pinning down subtle scum- and that isn't to your benefit. (Not to mention that I find it difficult to explain things at times)

[Beefster]

What did you think of PeregineV jumping to answer the questions first?

Could be scumminess. Could be impulsive town. He poses a good point, though WIFOMy. Therefore it's a null tell that isn't worth speculating.

[Beefster]

One more thing I forgot: Could be seen as griefing/trolling; In which case Peregrine is best reserved for a vigkill. (If there is a vigilante)

[Beefster]

Peregrine is a VI. Don't waste time on him.

Gut says Umbrage is town. Just look at the general nature of his posts.

Why is DonJosh bad, exactly? From the looks of it, it seems like his wagon is on him for lurking. (Which isn't a scumtell)

Flavour is scum. He's the lynch.
MOAR VOTES ON FA!

[Beefster]

Everypony needs to have that in their next post or a REALLY REALLY good reason not to.

No, because there is no case on DonJosh. There never was.

Don't try to stop activity. Ever.

GQPoS: RainbowDash

[Beefster]

EBWODP: "activity" should be replaced with "discussion." It's a little more specific.

[Beefster]

FA is still my top town read. He's asking really good questions, and they seem to be orientated towards town.

Obv-buddying.

@Hiraki: I love you now. This DonJosh wagon reeks of scum, and you found the words I was looking for to explain why I (we) think he's town.

@SnakeSide: *applause* for attacking FA's July head.

@Bogre:
#824- lol. I forgot I even said that. Either way, my opinion on Umbrage has since changed; I'm still leaning scum on glowball, but I'm now reading town on Umbrage.

Just look at the general nature of posts from them.

Scumlist:
-FA
-Rainbow
-Soda
-Bogre

@Everyone: take a look at who seems to be "running the show" in this game. Those players are likely scum. WE MUST LEAD A REBELLION! (Interesting with how well this fits with Toy Story 3's plot. )

[Beefster]

@Rainbowdash: No, there really isn't a valid case on DonJosh. So he's flaky and lurky. Big deal. It's not a scumtell, nor will it ever be. I'd hardly call a week into day 1 stagnant. There's no reason to lead a lynch this early.

GQPoS = Giant Quivering Penis of Suspicion

IGMEOY: Spyrex, jmurph3. Don't give in so easily.

Another question, mainly to FA and RD:
Why Donjosh? Why not another lurker such as jmurph3 or mb53? From what I understand, the case on DonJosh is for lurking.

@glowball: Wrong. Move your votes to FA or RD. I'd be quite happy with either one lynched.

[Beefster]

^EBWOP: From what I understand, the case on DonJosh is for lurking, and a single instance of a "reaching attack" that was neither reaching nor an attack- making a mountain out of a molehill. kendall was the first wagon of the day, which, from my experience, is rarely very useful.

@diddin: who do you think is "running the game" then?

IGMEOU: diddin

[Beefster]

I think I need to re-re-explain my point on DJ's wagon: The case on Donjosh is based on a single interaction with the first wagon. In my experience, the first wagon is almost always on the VI. (I've played in too many games with shotty, and I was a VI once. I know these things.) The VI does help to get discussion going, though isn't terribly useful for tells.

@diddin: I can tell you I'm leaning scum on glowball... or at least I was. His interaction with RD is starting to make me think otherwise. His need to be proven that there are 2+ factions is actually quite indicative of being town, in this case. Then again, conditional suspicions make me uneasy.
Let's just call my glowball read "URGHRGNPHGH"

So I suppose my broad statement was a little too broad. It's way too open to interpretation. From my perspective, it felt like part of my scumlist was running the town. FA's micromanaging for sure. 'twas an exaggeration.

Regarding OMGUS: what? the IGMEOU? That was for voting DonJosh, not for loss of townread.

[Beefster]

So in short: the case on DJ is for him being to short and concise. It's a wagon based entirely on his playstyle? You don't always have to explain your reads. Not everyone has the time for it. Some players post walls. Some players post sentences. Some players post somewhere in between.

I will have nothing to do with the DJ wagon.

@glowball: Sheesh, Fiesty. Noted.

I don't exactly understand glowball's reasoning. Calling DJ's wagon an easy lynch, yet agreeing with a DJ lynch. I probably missed something somewhere, because not even bad scum straddles like that.

[Beefster]

@glowball: that makes a little more sense now. Thanks for clarifying.

Well, off to bed.

[Beefster]

The scum are among the active players, I'm sure of it.

This is what I meant by the scum being the guys running the show here.

[Beefster]

What happened to Flavour?

[Beefster]

DonJosh

(10)- NanookTheWolf, SodaSpirit17, mikehart, Rainbowdash, SpyreX, jmurph3, diddin, FourseenCirumstance, chkflip, inHimshallibe

I am disappoint. This town is full of sheep.

Will respond to FA's post shortly.

[Beefster]

@RD: No. Don't twist my words. I was clearly using town as a general term, referring to the full player list.
Stop trying to end the day early. We need discussion to find scum.

@Flavour:
I was originally doing a rebuttal. But then it hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm an idiot.
-My case isn't going anywhere; I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
-Thanks for actually posting a case. Perhaps your questioning really was only a phase of your play.
-I'm wrong about you. I let my play preferences get in the way of real scumhunting.
-The nature of your defenses suggests town alignment. I should stop nitpicking.
-This seriously changes A LOT [of other reads], which I realize.
-I just realized defense by denial isn't a tell. I thought it was at work, though. It's played differently anyway.
-I'm being an idiot.
-If it's at all possible to confirm both of our alignments [as town], we could make a killer scumhunting team by attacking from two angles.

HOLY CRAP, I HATE MAKING 180s. But that just happened.
G'head. Vote me. I deserve it after that move right there.

I still don't like the Donjosh wagon. Too much sheeping going on...
How about a RainbowDash wagon?

unvote

VOTE: RainbowDash

(I should have done this several posts ago)

@Ray: Nice find: a wishy-washy statement from Hiraki. Or a miscommunication. We'll see.

[Beefster]

You keep refusing to give me solid stances on why DJ wagon is bad, apparently given your last few posts its the early part of the wagon you dislike for the playerbase yet you continue to complain about the sheeping aspect of it. Which of the sheepers are scum?

What's wrong with gut? Seriously. I don't like the DonJosh wagon because I think DonJosh is town and there's nothing I see that can really be misconstrued for scum. The wagon on him is based on a few null tells and no actual scum tells.
If that isn't a solid stance, then what is?

Likely scum sheep: mb53, jmurph3, SodaSpirit.

Regarding sheep in general: I mean seriously, who of the DonJosh wagon actually agrees with the reasons?

[Beefster]

unvote

VOTE: SodaSpirit

I don't feel like catching up.

[Beefster]

I'm not reading 8 pages. Sorry. There are better things I can be doing with my time.

Scotty Bro: Replace me