Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Gammagooey]

Hey, replacing Quil, reading the game and have my role PM and I've already skimmed all of d1 and went over some of d2.

Unvote

Tar was the player that stuck out to me most with d1 stuff- I'm actually not going to give details on that for a little bit but someone should remind me to before d2 ends.

--Hey Tar can you give me a read or two on people that haven't been talked about much?

A bit sad that Spy got lynched for shits and giggles instead of someone that would be AWESOME to lynch for shits and giggles (*coughfatecough*) but it's not like it matters now.

Went over MoI's iso since he was the top wagon when I saw that Quil requested replacement and I'm surprised that it makes as much sense as it does- I'm more than a little amazed at MoI's superaggressive posts given his recent play and posts in Metamafia and [Redacted] seemed to lead to him mellowing out a lot by the end and I would think he would feel a little humbled after both of those games- His play here doesn't even show a hint of that.

Gonna go finish reading the game, probably going to vote MoI by the end of the day unless I'm distracted by other very

shiny

scummy posts.

[Gammagooey]

SUP

Vote: MagnaofIllusion

Invictus: silavor

Done reading, MoI votes are supercool but don't lynch him before a claim.

[Gammagooey]

^This is L-2 by the way.

[Gammagooey]

MoI I feel left out of your big post with people who voted you.

Can I get a few town reads with reasons attached to them?

[Gammagooey]

@MoI- late iso 2 to iso 4 looks excessively confident given your play in the last two games we've played together- particularly

Anyway I’ve delivered you a bunch of scum – Nautlius, Gut, Silavor, possibly danceHello. Get to work people, I’ve done the heavy lifting.

and

Nope, you are pretty much 100% scum. Especially with that "I was trying something new that I can't explain in a way other than it looks like something out of the mouth of DrShotty".

After metamaf and [redacted] I very much expected to see more mellow town play, but instead you're stating that you've got 3 scum and that everyone else should go ahead and listen to you.
Naut's thing is similar- Yeah it wasn't a GOOD reason but unless I'm mistaken it was for an RVS wagon at the time and I have a really hard time seeing Naut use it as an excuse for being on a d1 quicklynch instead of just passing off the spy-scum claim as rvs shenanigans. Going you're absolutely scum while insulting their reason for the vote isn't what I expected from MoI-town.

And why isn't it worth your time. This is a serious question.

[Gammagooey]

I'm not telling you that you should change (although personally I would like if you knocked off insulting posts like your iso 3), I'm saying that I expected change based on your reads and play in those specific games being so aggressive that it got you killed after you were wrong in a few of your reads.

Aggressive play isn't scummy by itself, it's your specific circumstances that make it odd. And also consistency is boring.

Three gets a kay but if you're town it'll make me sad later.

[Gammagooey]

silavor can superdie, hence invictus vote on him
Gut sheeping Fate is bad but I don't think it's that scummy and the rest of his play gives me a weak town read
danceHello is guttown based on PBuG's early posts and the post about Tar's day 1 stuff.

And I'm not sad yet, that emotion only occurs if you become lynched town. (or mass-invictus'd town i guess but technicalities)

[Gammagooey]

I swear magna. If you're town you deserve the hammer you're about to get.

[Gammagooey]

actually you deserve it as either alignment at this point but whatever

[Gammagooey]

Fate I could troll you a bit by fakehammering him but I don't feel like it. I'm already voting him.

Magna if you don't claim then you're going to die. If you wanna spew bullshit about dying being more protown than claiming then yeah you can just go hang out in the dead QT until the game is over.

[Gammagooey]

thaaaaats actually close enough to a claim to satisfy me on that front.
MoI none of this arguing with fate shit is useful in figuring out your alignment. other people might disagree but I also don't think your silavor stuff helps with figuring out your alignment.
What WOULD help is those more detailed town reads that you mentioned earlier. I don't care if it's weak reasons or a weak read or whatever but I'm fairly certain that'll help a lot more than everything you're doing now.

[Gammagooey]

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Unvote, Vote:Fate

[Gammagooey]

Because I think your suspicions of sil and gut and naut could fairly easily come from you-scum without much trouble, you're about to die, and if your reasons for thinking that etc. are town are good or a towntell in some way you JUST MIGHT not get noosed. Which last time I checked is beneficial to any win condition you may have.

If you make me wait until tomorrow you'll probably be dead though. I don't need SUPER DETAILED just one-two sentences on why zey town.

[Gammagooey]

maaaaaaybe.
it could also be a combination of that and not wanting someone to hammer MoI while I'm talking with him.

[Gammagooey]

hmmmmmmmm so I'm gonna go over a few isos. MoI's reasons for DGB+Benmage town are decent and it has the bonus of frustrating Fate for a while.

[Gammagooey]

why do i have to do everything.
HEY MOI DO WHAT THEY SAID PLZ.
although i thought that you already explained your scum reads so feel free to either elaborate on them or ignore Fate.

[Gammagooey]

Illum did confirm actually, during n1. Yeah he hasn't posted though. Behold my amazing replacement secrets.

[Gammagooey]

isoed a few people, got bored, decided to do different research.
You guys get one-quarter of a guess who has never been scum before and whos play in this game is drastically different than his previous ones. And would still be scummy even without that but icing on cakes is delicious.

Unvote, Vote: Silavor

[Gammagooey]

You win the sympathy prize.
One-quarter of an internet cookie.

And demon PM mith/flay to see if they can make it activate faster.

[Gammagooey]

sooooorry fatefriend. But sil needs death oh so much more.
Don't worry, if MoI is scum with you and Tar and etc. around he won't make it to endgame.

Sidenotes: Driving back home from the beach in an hourish so I won't be back here until decently late tonight.
And I never actually posted a youtube video in the queue since I was already the first replacement spot before it opened. I should fix that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oCm3f--qdI

[Gammagooey]

Sooooo. Sil should get more votes.
For the people that are as lazy as I am, have some links.

Spoiler: links

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=16363
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15991
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17230
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16260

Look at sil's iso in any of those games. I can't see Sil quickhammering like I he did here as town from anything in those.
For people who think that sila wouldn't do it because it's too ballsy- yeah I thought that too. But scum have daytalk as seen by

(F-P)

<faction> Chat

- You may speak with your allies here.

And he immediately defends himself with

Because scumvor is so stupid he would go out of his way to draw attention to himself by hammering.

Right. Ok then. You keep thinking that.

instead of actually thinking about who's scum given the wagon/quicklynch/flip etc.

And none of his posts except for the invictus of BS has anything at all reason-wise with it.
And particularly he said nothing about MoI while voting him but went into why BS's post who he was invictus voting was scummy.
And I get none of the feeling that I got from sila's town games where he was actually trying to find scum. (mostly because he isn't).

---------

I'd go into detail about why MoI's town too to draw in the sila votes but he isn't actually a solid town read. His stuff about "the claim won't save me" is a liiittle more likely to come from town but yeah it could be a gambit and as scum he would totally be bussing sila right now. I do like the reasoning for ben and particularly DGB-town though and giving them quickly like he did gets him a few townpoints.

And finally using my patented "Reasons for townz that other people will find stupid"™ I think that MoI not expecting to survive the day and basically giving up like he did was more likely to come from town- With him stating that Fate was probably town I have a real hard time seeing MoI-scum give Fate the satisfaction of lynching him as scum. I think he would bring up doubts about Fate being town instead of maintaining that read, and made some sort of claim while going on about who needs to be lynched tomorrow. (this concludes "Reasons for townz that other people will find stupid"™)

-------

SUMMARY: VOTE SILA- INVICTUS MOI OR SOMETHING IF YOU WANT BUT SILA ABSOLUTELY NEEDS TODAY'S NOOSE.
Also I'm slightly sorry for this being a long post. Buuut hopefully it'll be useful.

[Gammagooey]

Fate I wish I had my laptop working so I could play drunk starcrafts with you or something.

If MoI is scum then he'll get taken care of, and you'll make sure of it. But there IS a decent chance that he's not scum And he'll give reads and votes in the meantime to help figure stuff out later, regardless of his alignment.
sila IS scum and we should take care of him right now. And we will! Bessssides you can test your amaaazing invictus plan by getting him as the biggest invictus wagon! eeeeveryone wins.
I'll even get on the invictus wagon with you after politely allowing you to start it.

[Gammagooey]

It's not policy derpface, read any and or all of his isos in the town games that I linked of his.

[Gammagooey]

Yeah you're fine with CAPSING.

And I'm not risking some silly Tarhalindur, etc. over mafia invictus redirecting or some such from the guy that's more likely to be scum.
For the other guy sure we can test it and if we're AWESOME and they're both scum we either get one down today and one tomorrow or they both die and we get with a pretty decent amount of certainty that scum can't mess with invictus aside from any individual bulletproofs or whatever that they have.
If they're NOT both scum then MoI is town because sila is scum, and we derp around today and have to worry about invictus being redirected or block'd by a different ability and having zero scum dead by tomorrow morning which is not okay.

[Gammagooey]

Actually you might as well do something useful instead of drunk posting about OMGMOISCUM. Maybe not now but tomorrow would be nice.
I get why you think MoI is scum. It's all fine and good and understandable.
I don't get why sila is town. If you want me to change votes go work on that. If you can't then come join the best wagon around.

Things that you shouldn't bother trying to convince me with:
--sila's hammering more likely coming from town although he's never been scum before, you told him to, and scum has daytalk given Vi's setup post.
--going with you on MoI when it's oh so easy for scum to sheep your incorrect reads (i've done it, it's fun) and just kill you if they think you're about to get on the right track
--Voting MoI in general when he says absolutely nothing about him with the vote and comments about Baby Spice instead, especially as almost everyone else is voting him based on his play in previous games, which sila has seen none of.
If you have something REALLY IMPORTANT that you think I'm missing about one of the above things you can give it a shot but expect things not related to the above to hold a lot more weight.

[Gammagooey]

idunno someone tol dme sila was town and his name wa snacho and i wsas like ok why not moi is cum so who cares

Maybe not now but tomorrow would be nice.

Hmmmmyeah.

Gonna try to get some sleep, enjoy drunken league of legends!

[Gammagooey]

So I have some form of a town read on everyone on the sila wagon except Magna (even Baby Spice, although it's a very weak read). You guys should get in on this.
Zach why are you still voting MoI btw, yeah he didn't claim everything but he basically said everything that we wanted from a claim anyway.

[Gammagooey]

Oh wait I'm retarded disregard etc.

[Gammagooey]

Sooooo nothing's happening. Town read time?

townz: Ban, Ben
Likely townz: DGB, Duplicity
Weak town reads: Baby Spice, Gut, Naut, danceHello
lol,fate: Fate

Everyone else can eventually die in glorious fireballs.

[Gammagooey]

hammer meaning nothing whaaat.
Of course it means something. He did it as a result of the choices given to him from the rest of the game and him thinking it would be beneficial or at least not particularly harmful to his alignment, whatever it may be. I'll be happy to argue with you if you think it's more likely to come from town than scum but don't tell me it means NOTHING.

Also read my post about sila. You don't have to go through all the links to his previous games but just skim through one of them. You'll see what I mean by not seeing the quickhammer and his play in general from sila-town.

[Gammagooey]

hey dance while you're here give me oooone read that you think other people will disagree with or has what you think is odd personal reasoning for or is otherwise interesting in some way.

[Gammagooey]

As far as alignment-telling goes, it means nothing.

>:[
That's what I was talking about. Although I guess you as an individual could think that sila might do it as town or scum so whatever.
(he totally wouldn't as town though)

[Gammagooey]

I'm totally kicking danceHello off my town list until they come back and answer my question.
Until then they can slowly fall towards the LAKE OF FIRE.

[Gammagooey]

For the record, I never blamed Fate for me hammering Spyre. This is Fate. These are the Fates. Totally different beings. Apparently you all can comprehend Nazi jokes, but not Greek mythology jokes. For shame

Also, thinking that loversmafiaSila wouldn't have quickhammered is lulzy and terribad thinking. What can I say, I'm a totally different person in large games.

Gamma, if MoI is

suddenly so cleared

in your eyes because he gave up at L-1 (lolFUCKINGwut? Scum give up all the time too...) why is he not in your list of town reads?

Because despite everything I said I'd still probably be noosing him if you weren't here. He ain't no cleared towns, just not as scums as you are.

Sooooo. Sil should get more votes.
For the people that are as lazy as I am, have some links.

Spoiler: links

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=16363
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15991
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17230
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16260

Also, Gamma what made you pick those games of mine in particular? It's like you randomly pulled them out of a hat, or something. They're not even in chronological order, and one of them is my

second newbie game ever played.

How

exactly

are my newbie games supposed to help someone get a metaread on me?

View your profile->view topics->find all games that you were in (fire and ice wasn't done when I made the list), go through them, post them to thread. It's a list of all finished games that you have on-site at the time. And your play is much more intelligent and more thought out in all of them.
And if you want to not get dead arguing the current case ain't gonna cut it. Giving me why Other people are town or scum just might though.

[Gammagooey]

Cmonnnn Naut you know you want to join this amazing wagon.
PRESSURE AND/OR LYNCH THE SCUMZ.

[Gammagooey]

Zaaaaaaach Gut isn't getting lynched today. Being useful is awesome.

That applies to you and Illum too DGB but you're significantly more likely town than Zach so imagine a much nicer tone of voice for this sentence.

For anyone watching at home silavor doesn't even know why he's voting MoI. Yeah sure it's not out of the question that it's a bus but sila dies first.

[Gammagooey]

Also.
Fate are you on? I wanna ask you about something.

[Gammagooey]

Jeez I went to watch TV since you took half an hour.
And actually if you're scum I think you're more likely to be bussing MoI than trying to save sila but that's not what I want to talk to you about.

How do you feel about how the wagons are stalling out and which wagon do you think has more scum on it right now?
I'm a bit paranoid and I'll go over it some tomorrow, going to the gym in a few minutes though.

[Gammagooey]

Damnit you're gonna say exactly what I'm expected you to say and you'll have a pretty decent chance of being right but it tells me nothing about your alignment.

You should still say it though, maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. It'd be nice to know for sure if I am or not at least.

[Gammagooey]

Damnit you're gonna say exactly what I'm expected you to say and you'll have a pretty decent chance of being right but it tells me nothing about your alignment.

Well I got to be right about this at least.

And yeah I'm pretty sure there are more scum on the MoI wagon than the sila wagon. Although personally I expected you to use more descriptive terms like scum aren't squirming enough to look good on the wagon and aren't worried about getting caught on a town one and all that but yeah.

I'll disagree with you about sila being town with an MoI-flip but something needs to godamn happen and MoI is still likely scum. Zach should die soon too and personally I think you're not nearly as town as everyone else thinks you are because you can and have played to this caliber and better as scum but you probably still shouldn't die until later in the game. Town list is pretty much the same except there should be an additional little notch separating baby spice and gut (slightly more town) from danceHello and Naut (slightly less town).

Also I'm predicting that at least one or two people are going to think i'm an indecisive idiot with all this votehopping but whaaaaaatever.

Unvote, Vote:MagnaofIllusion

[Gammagooey]

EBWOP: MoI-flip should be MoI-scum-flip.

YEAH YOU WIN THIS ROUND FATE. But seriously make sila dead way before LYLO if I'm not around for some reason.

[Gammagooey]

Also while you're here how do you feel about Tar, I keep going back and forth about wanting him dead or not.

[Gammagooey]

Psssssh I'm such a tryhard. If MoI is scum I'd be pretty amazed if at least one of you/Tar wasn't scum too though, there's aaaalways one scum bussing real hard to look REAL good in a large game like this. Tar goes above you for death though given that ooooh so drawn out shtick with Quil and the FoS and the HoS nonsense.

[Gammagooey]

Well actually if both MoI and sila are scum you'd probably bus sila first due to being the easiest target in the game. But them both being scum with you would mean easy game scumfailure everywhere and I don't think that's the case.

[Gammagooey]

Reading me isn't actually hard though >.> Once you get in a few games with me as both alignments anyway.
I just have that naturally townie aura that fades once everyone realizes oh shit he looks fairly town as scum too.
Plus I throw great parties, why would anyone want to lynch me. That would be silly.

[Gammagooey]

Well I've gotta do SOMETHING to throw people off. Can't have people going OMG KITTY LOOKS LIKE KITTY-SCUM LAST GAME.
If you mean it's changed in the last few minutes though you've probably had too much to drink.

[Gammagooey]

80 = 25+30+25 Gammagooey

WHAT YA GONNA DO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_5zvV0b ... re=related

[Gammagooey]

Heeey VitaminR is on.
HEY VITAMIN wanna share some reads while you're here? Reads are pretty cool ya' know.

[Gammagooey]

There's a lot of people sheeping Fate and a bit of wagon weirdness and MoI's aggressive superconfident play immediately after that same style bit him in the ass in two other games.
Get sila to L-1 though and I'll hammer him to hell and back.

[Gammagooey]

But I want someone dead so very very bad.

Me and Fate went over the wagon weirdness and took up like a full page. Basically I'd normally expect scum on a town wagon to at least justify their reads so they look better than other people on it when the person flips town. Here it's LURKSVILLE EVERYWHERE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.
And the only real difference of me being the hammer as opposed to an earlier vote is the satisfaction and it makes MoI also further away from death until the final vote does come. If you can get Fate or someone else to agree to hammer then I'll be the L-1 vote but I don't feel like changing right now.

As for the non-wagon stuff it's basically this- I have a hard time seeing MoI-town saying

Anyway I’ve delivered you a bunch of scum – Nautlius, Gut, Silavor, possibly danceHello. Get to work people, I’ve done the heavy lifting.

in his iso 2 with that aggressive and sureness after he just had experiences with his aggressive confident playstyle failing in Metamafia and similar stuff in an ongoing game.

[Gammagooey]

DGB uses the scumputer as town and scum.
Hell she even told us to stay off the main two wagons when I got scum with her in Pledge of Allegiance.
She BELIEVES in its power.

[Gammagooey]

Oh hey sila will be closer to death than anyone else can be right now if I do this

Unvote, Vote:silavor

That's L-1. I'd say wait for a claim but I really don't think he's going to show up to give one.
FATE THE TIME TO CARE ABOUT WHICH WAGON HAS PASSED. AND YOU KNOW THAT SILA IS GOOD TOO.

[Gammagooey]

yaaaaaay deaaaaaaaath

[Gammagooey]

nah. even by the monumental powers of idiocy he is town he needed to die. And he probably isn't town so it's cool.
I really should care more about the wagon and the game but I don't. I'll care more tomorrow.

[Gammagooey]

He wasn't likely town that needed to die regardless he's likely scum that needed to die regardless.
And quit your godamn whining.

[Gammagooey]

Vote: Zachrulez

I'd actually rather do this than MoI.

[Gammagooey]

Also

@Vi: Quilford is in the not voting section instead of me

Fixed. ~Vi

[Gammagooey]

Huh. Okay if you want to get into that. Why do you think danceHello died Instead of other people?

[Gammagooey]

As another side note.

At this point that certain players haven't bit the dust is highly suspect.

Don't people use this against you all the time? It doesn't actually apply here since you almost got lynched yesterday but I'd still like an answer to the question.

[Gammagooey]

Yeah it's fairly odd.
I'm actually guessing that they were worried about their main targets invictusing them and are basing their kills off that instead of the general "killdatownz" that usually happens. But there were a lot of better targets and dance didn't seem That predictable so I do need to go over a few of the players that I think would have been killed instead.

Fate stop being a dickhead. MoI isn't amazingly super town but I would like a Zach lynch more than I would his.

[Gammagooey]

Fate seriously.
Calm the hell down or I'm replacing out. You're being an absolute shithead and you being right about sila doesn't mean that you should or are going to lead the town from here are out.

Zach I'll explain if you ask nicely.

[Gammagooey]

Well alright then. I'll give a list of reads and then I'm out.

[Gammagooey]

I'll give Fate a day or so to calm down. I'm making a reads list for today regardless of whether I'm replacing out or not.

[Gammagooey]

So here's dem reads.

Ban is my strongest town read- Pretty much all of his iso has a town feel and thought process, his isos 5 and 6 about SpyreX and his thoughts at the start of day 2 are especially good.

Benmage is a fairly strong town read but there isn't a whole lot behind it- It's a lot of gut and a bit of him putting a whole lot of effort into the game, and a similar general town tone similar to Ban's.

DGB is also a fairly town read, her stuff about Illuminati looks like legitimate scumhunting and her bit about lying about invictus claiming and SpyreX looked town.

Duplicity I wanted to read over more but he's a gut town read.

Fate is town if MoI is. He's absolutely too hard for this to be scum pushing on town and risk it blowing up in his face near endgame. If MoI isn't town then it could definitely be a bus and he's actually fairly likely scum from his invictus plan (because Fate-scum has infinite motivation to prevent being a random vig) and his d1 play was particularly bad (the worrying about being invictus'd by Spy in particular, but basically nothing from d1 was good).
HAVING SAID THAT he's more likely town than my other scum reads, even if MoI is scum.

Gut is meh and has about a 50/50 shot of being a Pooky alt, but his isos 10 about invictus and 14 and 15 about what he does as scum are both more likely to come from town than scum.

MoI isn't a terrible lynch but I'm still having a lot of trouble getting past how stupid of a gambit not claiming would be when 9/10 times someone pulls that they just get murdered for not claiming. And I do like his reasonings for Ben and DGB town even though the Zach-town read reasons don't apply at all.

Naut is a weak town read just because I have trouble seeing them as scum go- "Hey you know this ridiculous reasoning for why we were on a town lynch? Let's share it with everyone instead of just saying that it was RVS shenanigans!" I don't see anything else pointing to them-town though.

Tar is a fairly strong scumread- pushed MoI only after a drawn-out oooohhhhh maaaaannn I guess these Quil read reasons are bad but I want to look like I'm having trouble accepting it and still suspect him spiel. His reaction to Spy dying also looked overblown like several other players have already stated.

Illuminati WASN'T a strong read one way or the other but him being scum is really the only reason I can think of for DGB surviving the night. (well she could be scum but I really don't think that's the case) DGB's case on him is pretty decent too.

Vitamin is a gutscum read and is doing a lot of sheeping but I wouldn't be absolutely surprised if he was town.

Zach is a very strong scum read- Why he's stronger than the other scum reads is mostly gut but I don't think his first few posts regarding Spy were genuine- unvoting with your first post of the game is a reaaally silly reason for suspecting someone and clarifying that "oh I don't think you're scum for this reason just that one" is something I do as scum all the time, and much more relevant than that is his "annoyance" vote on MoI instead of thinking that MoI was scum, as well as his leaving it on there for a while after MoI's pseudo-claim despite that, staying on the Gut wagon for a bit when it was very clear he wasn't going to be lynched yesterday, and eventual vote on silavor with the note that he'd also lynch 2 other people even though it was very clear they weren't getting lynched, but not making a big deal out of why he thought either of Gut/Baby was scum and why other people should vote them, just stating that he thought Gut's earlier posts were basically a scum-claim.

I've been uber-ninja'd but here ya go, give me a minute to read everything.

[Gammagooey]

Oh and I think Zach's general reactions to votes on him have been more similar to worried scum than town and trying to paint those votes as bad but that isn't a very large reason for the read compared to his actions around the MoI/sila wagons, just gut that adds upon what I already think.

[Gammagooey]

whaaaat Tar if I'm really secretly YOU then I should obviously be lynched instead of waiting around and letting me have any more night actions. Don't go saying craazy stuff like that if you're not gonna have the balls to follow through on it.

[Gammagooey]

I did forget you were V/LA. AND I WILL SUE YOU. FOR YOUR LIFE.
And I don't remember a single vote on you that you DIDN'T react to. Please point to one so I can look silly and further your cause of lynching me.

In related news, Vote me you godamn scum pansies. Don't rely on some other guy to invict me, do it yourself.

[Gammagooey]

Psssssh I worked so hard to end the day without inquiring. The hell is this. I was talking to myself for half the godamn day because nobody else felt like talking at the time. I spent an entire page going over stuff with Fate.

And yeah you didn't have time to go over why you wanted other people lynched at the end of the day. But unless my memory is off with your V/LA you had plenty of time to go over why BS and Gut should die early in the day and never bothered going into it or trying to convince anyone besides pointing to 2 of Gut's posts and calling him conf. scum for it.

[Gammagooey]

Hmm.
Hey Tar I'm assuming you voting for an invictus-double-lynch means you think that there isn't any invictus manipulation correct?

[Gammagooey]

Well you could at least wait to see where I'm going with the second one.

And I don't feel like dying to some manipulated townie that went along with the invictus vote. If you want me dead then make me dead through the lynch and be willing to actually argue and fight and put your own reputation on the line to MAKE ME DEAD. I can be right up beside all the other wagons if everyone whos casually swinging suspicion my way actually had the balls to vote me. In fact I'm pretty sure I can be the leading wagon. So if you want me dead then PUT SOME EFFORT INTO IT.

[Gammagooey]

Alternatively, make me dead with YOUR OWN invictus vote. I sure didn't follow the invictus wagon yesterday. There's absolutely nothing stopping you.

[Gammagooey]

Hell no, I had a town read on her, despite it being weak. I'm not shooting my own town reads unless there's a very damn good reason to do it.

Once again btw.
Vote me if you think I'm scum. Throwing suspicion my way without votes will ONLY MAKE ME STRONGER.

[Gammagooey]

Where's Illuminati by the way, I want every single one of my scum reads to be here attacking me and then casually not bother to get me lynched until later in the game.

[Gammagooey]

No, it really isn't. The best way to actually KILL SCUM with invictus is for it to be unpredictable. The vote is more likely to hit town than scum at this point with it being used as it is with significantly less discussion on it than the primary lynch.
And tell me exactly why I should replace out for my behavior. I'm listening.

[Gammagooey]

She doesn't post much but she certainly isn't unreadable- There wasn't any reason why she'd be attacking you and other strong players when it would likely just get her lynched if she was scum.

And I won't give you absolute certainty that I'll use it on the wagon. If the wagon is on Gut like it is now- I can give you 80-90% chance or so that I'll kill him. But I'm not going to say 100% and let scum kill whoever they want regardless of their reads- it SHOULD be more secretive and less certain so that the scum try to kill people who are WRONG about them and who they think will kill another townie while the townie themself still has a decent shot of hitting the invictus wagon- it leads the scum to leave the people who are right about them alive longer and gives town in general a better chance of victory.

[Gammagooey]

Psssssh you say hypocrisy like it's a bad thing.

And I diiiiid say that you were less likely scum than my other scum reads.

[Gammagooey]

And I didn't goad you into anything.
That hammer of silavor?

IT WAS FATE.

[Gammagooey]

Sorry I couldn't resist. The setup was too good.

[Gammagooey]

You really should relax a bit Fate. If you want I can go over reads or such stuff with you.

[Gammagooey]

eh? I have A read on you, although it's not amazingly strong. I've just seen you as scum way townier than this and I don't want to see you MANIPUL8 your way to a scum win like you've done so often in the past- quite frankly I think you should be held to a different standard than everyone else just because you're so good at convincing people to follow you regardless of your alignment.

Besides, you'll probably convince enough other people to vote Magna by the end of the day that my choice will be voting him, being useless, or voting a town read. And I think you've got a pretty good idea of what'll happen in that case.

[Gammagooey]

Anyway, now that Fate-Gamma talky time is over.

ZACH

(that was to get your attention so you won't miss it from me+Fate everywhere)
Let's go into some stuff. First of all- you said that your big scumteam people are:

Gut/VitaminR/Gamma

First- based on your experience do you think the most likely explanation for Vitamin's agreeing with me here-

I like the above from Gamma. Particularly the Ban, Benmage, Duplicity, and Nautilius pieces are similar to my own thinking.

is that we're both scum together or do you think this game is unique and it normally doesn't happen but we're scum anyway? (or some other 3rd option I'm not thinking of)

Second- I'll understand if you don't believe me but I didn't push for sila to die faster so I could make a big case on you today, I pushed on him so we could get on with the game- MoI and sila were both decent lynches and it was pretty clear that nobody besides the two of them were going to die that day, and pretty much everyone that wasn't voting MoI had a chance to hammer him in the 20 something hours that he was at L-1. Once dance unvoted I didn't think MoI would get lynched at all that day and was tired of nobody on the MoI wagon being willing to push for his lynch or even talk about other lynches except Fate.
Do you think that any big realizations or something would have occurred that can't happen now if the game had gone on for another 12 hours or so? The only thing I can think of is that Baby Spice might have looked a little townier and not have been the invictus'd if dance had agreed with Baby Spice to the point that he chose to ignore the invictus wagon, and some people are still saying today that she might be up for lynch if she wasn't dead.

Third- This is mostly because having 3 whole points looks cooler than just two but did you ever have a read on Quilford?

[Gammagooey]

And yeah I know you're still V/LA. I can wait a bit.

[Gammagooey]

And to think you were bitching so hard about my Zach vote.
DGB I'm not third-party, I just want the people who say they suspect me to have the balls to try and get me lynched instead of saying that they want me dead enough for someone else to kill me but not enough to put in the effort to get me lynched. Mostly because trying to get me lynched would mean they'd have to put out decent arguments for why I'm scum as well as put a nice big target on their back after my flip if they actually do get me lynched.

MoI, what do you think of the possibility that all of KK's list was town and scum just wanted to make sure that a town died from his invictus?

I think there was something else I wanted to say but I forgot it, I'll post it when I remember.

[Gammagooey]

DGB look at the first post.
Then back at me.
Then at the first post.
Then back at me.

Besides Vi doesn't put jesters in games. Go look up its thoughts on the subject.

AND TAR SHOWED UP. And wants me to vote him! And I will be happy to oblige.

Vote: Tarhalindur

Now would you like why I think you're scum or would you prefer me to just stay quiet and bug other people for a while.

Illuminati can I get something interesting from you? I collect odd reads and reasonings for my secret jar in the fridge.

[Gammagooey]

Oh Fate was talking to me with that Tar comment wasn't he.
What if Duplicity isn't scum though Faaaaate. And you know that earlier OMG SPY IS DEAD EVERYONE IS FUCKING TERRIBLE AT THE GAME was overdone, scum-style. And the ridiculously slow read changes and the ohhh man I got fooled by SCUMZ and the connecting me with a player that hasn't even flipped yet.

Tar I'm going to leave that up there so you can have your cool reasons for why I voted you and such, even though you'll probably do the same thing Zach did and go ballistic about someone thinking you're scum for what you think is bad reasons. But your last post is a pretty damn good gambit if you're scum. I was actually planning to do something similar if the Gut invictus wagon stayed there and ask you to invictus me and ignore the invictus wagon on Gut so that it would be pretty clear in later days that one of us was scum, hence me asking you about invictus maniupulation.

Unvote, Vote: Zachrulez

There's a pretty decent chance I'll change this to a MoI vote later in the day after Zach gets back and I talk to him for a bit.

[Gammagooey]

But DGB my dear the tea will get cold if it's left out all night and my vote has a secret invitation on the back asking Zach to do just as you ask.

[Gammagooey]

: / Tar you're making me a bit sad here. Would you at least be willing to seriously reconsider your Benmage read if I die and you see my town flip later in the game? Because yeah there's a decent chance you're right about MoI being scum, but I really don't think Ben is and I don't want to see you go on a tunneling rampage for the rest of the game if your read on MoI is right and wind up forcing through mislynches because you were right earlier in the game.

And yes I'm well aware that you're not going to trust anything I say until I'm dead. But me becoming dead a bit later is definitely a possibility and I'd really like you to not be that one guy who won't listen to what anyone else has to say until everyone is bitching at each other in postgame.

[Gammagooey]

More words than I feel like quoting

<3.

Time to wait for Zaaaaach.

[Gammagooey]

I'm not going to be back in Minnesota until Sunday, so you'll be waiting until at least then and for me to catch up on my reading as well.

*sadface*

Unvote, Vote:MoI

It would be quite nice if a hammer was held off until Zach gets some words in though.

[Gammagooey]

Oh I should do this too.

Invictus: Illuminati

Gonna give an invictus votecount in a few minutes.

[Gammagooey]

Ben it says in the first post that bodyguard resolves before anything else- Hindu probably did bodyguard Quil because unless KK invictus'd someone that wasn't on his list of 4 Quil is really the only one it makes sense for hindu to bodyguard.

Invictus votecount:
Illuminati(5): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate, Gut, Gamma
MoI(1): Ban
Gut(0)
Nautilius(2): Illuminati, Benmage
Gammagooey(2): Tarhalindur, Zach

tar ninja'd me but yeah.

[Gammagooey]

Gut - So scum.

Zachrulez
Gammagooey
Nautilius
with a dash of {Tarhalindur, VitaminR,

Gut

}

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS HAVE BEEN WAGONED.

(A vote for Zach that I'm too lazy to go find)

Zach is town, why don't you invite him for a cup of tea and a nice chat, instead of voting him?

DGB I am legit confused.

I know your scumputer is generally somewhere between decent and quite good at finding scums but isn't that after you account for a few town reads in the higher computations?

I should probably talk to MoI some in a bit too.

[Gammagooey]

MoI I'm gonna do my best to make this short.

I've seen a lot of stupid refusing to claim shenanigans from players on epicmafia.
And the vast VAST majority of the time it comes from town, because the scum players are trying to appease the town with their claim and know that if they DON'T do something to make the wagon go away they are going to become dead.
I hate pretty much all of the rest of your play except the town reads post, and even that had ridiculous non-sense reasons for Zach being town (he stood up to Fate for a WHOLE POST before giving in)
Going after Vitamin's choices of games to meta you for instead of his actual play
Your iso of Gut has no objectivity or room for doubt left in
Going off a day 1 scumlist of a dead townie when scum have killed inside that list And scum have an additional incentive towards killing players that are off-track

And despite all that I still don't think you're absolutely scum because the claim shenanigans is absolutely more likely to come from town than scum. I might try to help DGB get the Zach lynch if Zach doesn't have anything good to say on Sunday but I'd rather lynch you than Gut because given your play I think you're more likely to be scum than him, and Fate will never, ever give up on getting you lynched, regardless of his alignment. If you are town then lynching another town player that isn't you will probably lose us the game at this point, because Fate will scream his way to your lynch by the end of the game 100% guaranteed and if you are town then maybe people will finally be able to shut the hell up and consider other people's opinions instead of tunneling for the rest of the game with their own reads. (and this applies to way more players than just you Fate so don't be a whiny bitch about it)

[Gammagooey]

read on Gut IS mostly gut- I think that his iso 15 is more likely to come from sarcastic town than cheeky scum, and he's a lot less likely scum if Zach is scum like I think he is.

And it's not to prove that Fate is bad because he's better than average in reads in the games I've seen him in, he'll just NEVER EVER LET GO OF YOUR LYNCH because he wants to try and prove that he's a better player than you and all of that dickwaving shit and I'd rather you be a mislynch now than the final one in the game.

And don't give me DURR WIFOM, if he was killed FOR ANY OTHER REASON than because scum thought Both that he would kill town and he's a good player in general I will be shocked in endgame.

And why are you bringing up mafia authority you should know by now I play this game for fun. Being right is nice but for the most part I'd rather have games like Metamafia or Defcon where interesting and amusing stuff happens than half my games where regardless of the outcome nobody posts much and the game is just an infuriating lurkerfest.

[Gammagooey]

Zach you made a comment saying that Vitamin was scum with an arrow pointing to his post that agreed with mine. That KIND of indicated to me that you thought he was scummy because of that post and the link to me, not because he's individually scummy.

As for the second part Fate says I'm a hypocrite so I can clearly do whatever I want. Yeah you didn't post a bunch of reasonings for people and you were V/LA. But I still think that your vote-hop to Magna and then off and then onto Gut without actually going over why Magna is scummy is a lot more likely to come from scum than town. To me it reads like you hopping on Magna for doing something that you think is legitimately scummy and will get him lynched and then hopping off when you don't have anything else to actually support the vote, instead of getting on and off because of a change in your read on him.

Anything else you need from me?

Since Illuminati never got back to me I'll use that question again and ask for a few odd reads or reasonings for things.

[Gammagooey]

DGB if Gut is town and gets lynched what do you think will happen tomorrow?

[Gammagooey]

also aren't you still voting for Zach.

[Gammagooey]

Is the correct answer: MoI is going to be wagon'ed within a inch of his life, again?

Almost. The correct answer is MoI gets lynched tomorrow regardless of his alignment. And assuming that Gut is town and town is invictus'd tonight tomorrow is probably LYLO since a scum win-condition check occurs before any invictus kill goes out and I'm expecting 4 scum in the game. Although I would be fairly surprised if all three of Illum/Gut/MoI were town but I'd rather have a lynch that's not guaranteed to be on one dude tomorrow.

----

If MoI-town gets lynched then I'm HOPING people will finally go over shit before voting since all of the "obvscum" would be dead and flipped town but I may be being too optimistic.

[Gammagooey]

Actually you know what there's a more sane way to do this.

Invictus wagon now uses 2 votes. If the first target is dead then you get moved to the second one in the final votecount. It'll make it so we don't have to deal with all this bullshit tomorrow if one of Gut/MoI gets lynched, flips town, and the other would normally be tomorrow's lynch since nobody wants to invictus the people they're voting right now.

And if Tar or other really want they can use his group thing and just choose one of the top 2-3 wagons, with punishment of graveyard sadfaces if they choose wrong and it isn't the top wagon.

Primary invictus: MoI
Secondary invictus: Illuminati

Invictus votecount:
Illuminati(4): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate, Gut
MoI(2): Ban, Gamma
Duplicity(1): Tarhalindur
Nautilius(2): Illuminati, Benmage
Gammagooey(2): Zach

Invictus votecount if MoI is lynched
Illuminati(5): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate, Gut, Gamma
Duplicity(1): Tarhalindur
Nautilius(2): Illuminati, Benmage
Gammagooey(1): Zach

[Gammagooey]

Oh one more thing.

@ Illuminati, Duplicity, and Benmage- how do you feel about zachrulez?

[Gammagooey]

So you think my actions indicate a link of myself and Magna? (Mostly for the purpose of understanding the basis of your read.)

It's more that I think you didn't have a real suspicion of Magna when you hopped on his wagon even though you knew it could definitely lead to his lynch, it's a little more likely to be you-scum+magna-town than both of you being scum but I can see you voting him-scum like that too if you thought he would get quicknoosed for it and have the ends justify the means.

You should still give me those odd reads and reasonings by the way.

[Gammagooey]

Invictus votecount:
Illuminati(4): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate, Gut
MoI(2): Ban, Gamma
Duplicity(1): Tarhalindur
Nautilius(3): Illuminati, Benmage, Zachrulez

Invictus votecount if MoI is lynched
Illuminati(5): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate, Gut, Gamma
Duplicity(2): Tarhalindur, Ban
Nautilius(3): Illuminati, Benmage, Zach
Gammagooey(1): Zach

[Gammagooey]

>:I

[Gammagooey]

It seems weird that people only hop on the wagons I'm cheering for after I give up on voting them.

Nautilius and DGB I will trade you a Zach vote for a MoI invictus, good deal yes?
(if Zach is scum then Magna isn't as likely to be scum with him but he for serious needs to die before tomorrow if Zach is town)

[Gammagooey]

Invictus votecount:
Illuminati(3): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate
MoI(4): Ban, Gamma, Gut, Tarhalindur
Nautilius(3): Illuminati, Benmage, Zachrulez

Invictus votecount if MoI is lynched
Illuminati(5): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate, Gut, Gamma
Duplicity(1): Ban
Nautilius(3): Illuminati, Benmage, Zach
Benmage(1): Tarhalindur

error fixed+Gut's and Tar's votes added.

[Gammagooey]

Woooooooooooooooooo

Unvote, Vote:Zachrulez

Claims are cool things that should happen.

[Gammagooey]

Invictus count:
This guy is totally dead: MoI
These guys totally aren't dead yet:Everyone else except Zach

[Gammagooey]

Yes Tar, we get it, you're aggravated town.

MoI is dying tonight. Lynching you instead of an actual possible scumbag before that would be incredibly dumb/silly/<adjective>. You've already gone over the Zach-town/MoI-scum thing enough so that we all know your thoughts on the subject- If you really think you're going to die tonight then some info about what you think if one of your assumptions is wrong (MoI is town Or Zach is scum) would be a lot more helpful than being suicidal.

Although I am expecting you to just say that Me+Ben are scum regardless of any flips aside from maybe Zach-scum and I'll have to go back to being sad again. Stiiiill more useful than suicidal shenanigans though.

[Gammagooey]

Anyone that knows my scum game knows I would have shut down completely as scum by now.

Which will make the scumbags who put horrible votes on me even more obv when I flip.

BECAUSE YOU'RE TOTALLY STILL PROVIDING WORTH AND VALUE TO THIS THREAD.
(oh wait no you're not you haven't given any reads except WOW YOU'RE SO SCUM for the entire game)

I will help Nautilius with his noble endeavor of explaining why Zach is scum in a minute here.

[Gammagooey]

So basically none of Zach's play is scumhunting.
You have the weird shenanigans with Spy at the beginning that he's already said he's seen and done as scum, just later in the game.
You have the Gut and Baby Spice votes with absolutely no pushing behind it (although he did push a little on baby spice while she was the invictus vote instead)
You have voting MoI because THE LACK OF CLAIM was scummy (Zach is ALSO REFUSING TO CLAIM), and then him going off on a Gut tangent when he realizes he can't justify his MoI vote
His rage response to me suspecting him did look more likely to come from town than scum but Zach you're damn right I'm going to call you scum when you haven't interacted at all with 2/3rds of the playerlist and you're barely pushing what you believe to be scum
He has no opinion on anything Quil did except the vote on himself
also I'm going to paste this again because it's important You have him voting MoI because THE LACK OF CLAIM was scummy while Zach is CURRENTLY ALSO REFUSING TO CLAIM

ZACH IF YOU WANT TO BRING UP SHITTY SELF-META YOU BETTER GET BACK HERE AND GIVE SOME ACTUAL READS SO YOU CAN SAY YOU'RE NOT SHUTTING DOWN.

[Gammagooey]

Yes I am going to harp about this until Zach becomes dead

I did generally find refusal to claim scummy, and annoyance made voting even easier,

Oh, and I shant be claiming anything at all, ever.

DEATH TO ALL WHO OPPOSE THE HORDE

[Gammagooey]

Well fate unvoted earlier so Zach is still at L-1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpB_prsrZQA

[Gammagooey]

Guys, guys. I'm going to do a re-enactment of the last page, are you ready?

Zach:I'm not playing to my scum meta you scumbags
Naut: Yes you are
Zach:

Spoiler:

[Gammagooey]

You quoted MoI instead of me DGB?
That hurts.
Right in here-> <3

[Gammagooey]

I try to only listen to scum when they're trying to bus.
Zach are you trying to bus?

[Gammagooey]

I will be the most surprised dude if you flip town. If you are made of anti-miracles and do flip town?
MAYBE.
Probably not. MoI really does need to die.

If you are town then the hell was up with the not claiming spiel and MoI and seriously. Serrrriously.

[Gammagooey]

Ill be invictusing whoever hammers Zach.

Gamma has shit on his townread completely for being all. "Lol u flip scum nao" on town TWO DAYS IN A ROW

I will gladly trade wagon positions with anyone who wishes to see Zach dead that isn't wagoning yet so that I'm the hammer on Zach.

And Fate I don't regret the sila lynch. He wasn't even bothering to play the game. MoI dies too tonight, so you can finally stop bitching about that regardless of his alignment. If you want someone else to die with MoI then do something about it.

THIS APPLIES TO YOU TOO TARHALINDUR.

All of this WAH PEOPLE AREN'T LISTENING TO ME crap when MoI is dying anyway is absolutely retarded.

[Gammagooey]

If MoI DOESN'T die then we have a mislynch Because he didn't die and it's all good. (this is assuming 4 scum but I think that's a pretty good assumption)

And if you guys want to get into all this setup speculation sure why not.

Scum having a doctor doesn't make sense. Right now it's looking like the vast majority of the town's power is from invictus kills and giving scum a doctor to protect their scummiest player is INCREDIBLY hurtful to the town. A single bulletproof scum-player I can see as happening but if it's MoI he gets murdered tomorrow and everything is fine.

And I'm disappointed Fate, sure you aren't going to take a scum-read's arguments for PURE GOLD but surely they can be useful for getting a read on other players, as well as getting a stronger conclusion about your read on me.

Tar are you serious.
Yes it's a serious question.

[Gammagooey]

You mean the wagon on the guy who can hammer Zach whenever he wants, and could have hammered him earlier today?
Yeah good luck with that. I'm sure you'll make it happen.

[Gammagooey]

Oh I'm certainly not saying he's town.
I AM saying that trying to wagon him isn't going to work.

[Gammagooey]

Serious question of the day: Can anyone think of a good reason why there have been consistent counterwagons at the slightest provocation (silavor, Gut, and now Zach) to the MoI wagon on two separate days if he is town?

Enough people think he's not scum that they would rather vote other people.

And Tar you're really REALLY looking at Zach and looking for things that make him town instead of going over his play and trying to objectively decide whether he's town or scum. This isn't me saying you're scum by the way, because I really don't think you are. This is me saying you're taking your conclusion and looking for things that fit it instead of going over the evidence and looking for solutions that fit.
If you want I'll go over your points in more detail later tonight.

[Gammagooey]

Fine Fate let's do this.
Go over the individual parts of Tar's towncase on Zach and say which parts are good and amazing and true things that you agree with and why.
And I don't want WELLZZZZ HE'S TOWN SO THE CASE IS RIGHT because that post is more tunnel-vision than a dude driving a car Through the Earth itself.

I will in turn give why Tar's towncase, despite pointing very strongly to Tartown, does not point to Zach-town.
in like an hour because I'm watching TV now.

[Gammagooey]

No. That's not okay.
If you think that Tar's post on Zach-town is right then go through it and say why.
Because at this point I'm going to go through it and say why I think he's wrong at this point anyway and I want to know the parts of it that YOU think make sense instead of you going on and on about Zach being town with absolutely nothing of your own behind it.
If you'd like me to write up why I think the case is wrong before that then I will but you don't get to scream Zach-town all day with nothing except Tar's words behind it.

[Gammagooey]

You sure do love to swing your mafia experience around.
You're town because claiming bodyguard is a terrible idea for a mafia because it means they physically can't kill their town reads without also making a hasty explanation for why they didn't protect them that night, because the entire post with you claiming it came with no point except to try and get the lynch you want, NOT to keep yourself alive, because your idiotic self-vote and repeatedly using your experience to try and get what you want comes from someone who ABSOLUTELY believes they're right and is willing to die to prove it, and because you're putting so much effort into this game and your cases without any care for consequences that may arise from you being wrong about something later.

And while we're on experience. I've played 1,175 Ranked games of chat mafia. That's not counting shits and giggles imbalanced setups or massive games for fun or just games that looked interesting but didn't give points on epicmafia for whatever reason. I'm Still not the best player here or on that site or probably even in this game. But I am certainly good enough to think that someone is town despite agreeing with almost nothing that they say.

[Gammagooey]

WARNING.
THE NEXT POST IS A WALL STATING WHY I THINK TAR'S CASE FOR ZACH-TOWN IS PRIMARILY GARBAGE.
If you're not on the fence about Zach's alignment you can probably skip it altogether. It would be nice if you read it though.

[Gammagooey]

BULLSHIT.

You know what that reads as to me? It reads as town parking his vote on a player who did something scummy pending his explanation/a better target - just like, say, my D1 SpyreX vote.

The really telling part here is the question "why did you hammer?" - unless I'm very much mistaken, Zach wasn't *sure* that silavor's hammer is scum-motivated, only suspected it, so he double-checked. That's town behavior.

Asking town for an explanation for a scummy action can absolutely come from scum and I have no idea why you think it can't.

Uh, no.

From what I can tell, Zach vote to vig (not lynch) BabySpice because she was an unreadable lurker, then when she actually did post she read scummy to him so he upgraded to a vote. That's town logic.

Proof of this? Take a gander at this post:

I was hoping to get him to actually qualify his statement with well... anything with that remark.

@Duplicity: If/when Baby Spice posts more, it's possible my position on her will change, for these 5 minutes though, she's doing a lot of nothing.

This? This is 100% town mindset.

Zach's post about Baby Spice can be scum stating that he's willing to change his mind on a town player if they look town later and really doesn't look town at all- of course if a player looks town later you'll change your mind on them later you don't need to say it unless you're charting your actions ahead of time to try to look consistent.

Zach's reasoning for voting MoI was his refusal to claim, no more, no less. In fact, Zach lays out his reasoning for the MoI vote here:

V/LA and don't have a lot of time.

Original vote on Magna was annoyance, but I'm not getting the feel I got in Star's aligned when he was going for the murderer win con and was blatantly scummy. So out of the major wagons, I'd prefer a Silavor lynch.

Unvote: Vote: Silavor

Would happily switch to Baby Spice or Gut if there's interest in lynching them today. (Which I haven't seen to this point.)

Also note the "prefer a silavor lynch" and "would happily switch to Baby Spice or Gut" - it's the same kind of reasoning ("there's players who I think are likely to be scum and I'm willing to lynch and [implicitly] there are players who I don't consider likely enough to be town to be lynched") that I've been using today. It's also clear he would prefer to lynch certain players over silavor and is simply settling for an acceptable lynch, which is inconsistent with a scum "doesn't care who gets lynched so long as they're not on my team and I won't get nailed for my vote" mindset.

His entire reasoning for voting MoI was bullshit as evidenced by voting him for something he JUST DID HIMSELF. His statement that he'd lynch two other players as well CAN come from town but IMO it's much more likely to be him trying to distance himself from the lynch that he's facilitating, especially given that he barely pushed on Baby Spice or Gut throughout the day.

Oh REALLY now?

You can't see the pro-town indignance at the case on him? (MoI's been trying the same response, but it rings fake to me at an intuitive level in a way that Zach's defense doesn't.)

This I do think is generally more likely to come from scum than town but I think all the other stuff against him outweighs it.

His defense for being on the SpyreX lynch was crap. He basically acknowledges Gamma has a legitimate point, and then says it was too early game to matter (nevermind that Zach does the same damn thing in his ISO #25). The rest of the defense, "I wasn't online", is unverifiable either way, and thus really doesn't tell us much.

CRAPLOGIC. Zach's defense for being on the SpyreX wagon (to such an extent that one needs a defense for being on a DERPwagon) is EXACTLY the same as mine (actually BETTER than mine, since I checked in when Spy was at about L-2 but didn't realize how close he was to lynch) in EXACTLY the same kind of wagon position.

And that ISO 25 point? Not every point raised against a player is necessarily valid, and it's pro-town to point out bad reasoning.

Eh. The not being online when it happened is probably true but the initial point against him for saying that he wasn't on the wagon for that reason he's on it for this one even Zach agreed with it generally being a scumtell and I don't think that it happening early changes anything about that.

More bull. Zach's point was that he *reconsidered* his belief that MoI's refusal to claim was scummy, decided it wasn't, and acted accordingly. Being willing to reconsider your views is a towntell, albeit a weak one.

There's nothing here stating why it doesn't make sense for Zach as scum to vote MoI-scum if he thinks he's about to be lynched and then back off later when the lynch is stalling.

He then goes on to defend his Gut read, which apparently is

so good

that anyone who disagrees with it is "scum or not paying attention". This is crap and bullshit, considering all he said on gut is "^scum claim, lynch at will".

Then you're saying that my case and Fate's case on MoI is

This is an unfinished sentence. Anyone reading this gets a cookie at this point for actually bothering to read this whole post, my heart goes out to you.

His conclusion about Gamma's "big, damning looking" case shows that Zach is intimidated by the size of the case on it, and is pretty damn scummy considering the thing isn't that long in the first place.

Uh, really now? REALLY NOW?

Zach wasn't "intimidated" by Gamma's case, that's a misrep to end all misreps. Zach was showing that

Gamma's "case" on him was - and is - a case that was made by scum

, with a side helping of sarcasm.

I have a town win condition therefore your point is invalid.
As for the case itself Zach basically took the fact that he was V/LA during the time that I think as town he would have been pushing his cases and said that I was scum for using that against him. As previously stated the ragecase itself is more likely to come from town than scum IMO but it Can come from a scumbag that wanted to discredit the case against him by taking me attacking him for something he didn't do while he was on V/LA and making a case for why I'm scum based primarily on that.

[Gammagooey]

Fate, why are you pulling this ridiculous gambit?
You know that MoI absolutely isn't getting lynched over Zach unless you also convince someone from the Zach wagon to switch over, which you haven't bothered with at all.
You haven't given anything for why Zach is town the entire day, and you know that the majority of Tar's OMGZACHTOWN case is garbage.

So really why do you keep pushing for something that you know isn't going to happen? Lynching Illuminati or Duplicity or maybe even me, all with an MoI invictus would be Possible given the wagons as they are right now. lynching MoI isn't.

[Gammagooey]

If MoIscum actually thinks he's in danger of death he just hammers Zach and laughs at you. If you want to get him lynched a Zach-town argument to get a vote off of him so quickhammers can't happen is kind of necessary first, and you're not bothering with that at all.
In related news if MoI is INVICTUS-PROOF SCUMZ like all you ridiculous setup-speculation people seem to think why is Zach still alive. I can only give you credit for "scum doesn't want to look like scum quickhammering" for so long.

[Gammagooey]

I'm pretty convinced the day is going to end with me dead though... just the kind of game it's been.

Godamnit.
And although I'd really like to blame you for not answering the odd reads/reasonings and other stuff it is absolutely my fault more than yours.

Unvote, Vote:MoI

Fate if MoI flips bulletproof scum I'll be fine with being lynched tomorrow, because I'll be a ridiculously giant distraction at that point and we'll have a mislynch. I really really really don't think he would have survived the night though.

Duplicity bring out that Zachrulez case, I wanna see what was on it.

[Gammagooey]

Invictus votecount:
Illuminati(1): VitaminR
MoI(7): Ban, Gamma, Gut, Tarhalindur, Fate, Illuminati, Nautilius
Nautilius(1): Benmage
Gut(1): Zachrulez

Invictus votecount if MoI is lynched
Illuminati(3): VitaminR, Gut, Gamma
Duplicity(2): Ban, Fate
Nautilius(3): Illuminati, Benmage, Zach
Benmage(1): Tarhalindur
Zachrulez(1): Nautilius

Went over a pretty decent number of isos to avoid mistakes- if I missed one then copy+paste+fix it yourself.

Fate I stuck you on the MoI invictus before the Duplicity one since you're voting MoI and seem to want him dead quite a lot and didn't give a secondary invictus. If that's not okay then repost the votecount with the fix.

[Gammagooey]

ARE YOU NOT A SURVIVORZ?

Stiiiiiiill town. You know that all I would have had to do to stay out of the spotlight 'til late game is sheep your MoI-read all day.

[Gammagooey]

DGB switched too so I think he's at L-3? Vi should be in here with a votecount sometime soon though.

[Gammagooey]

@TOWN - Do you think I am scum with Zachrulez? Because that's the ONLY way I could have possibly passed hammering him not once but twice. Especially since my death is being signed off on as 'necesarry' regardless of alignment.

Personally I disagree with this and think that it would only apply if you were bulletproof scum- Potentially living because you didn't hammer someone >>> taking a townie with you on your way down.
If you're feeling nice a few new and/or improved town reads would be a cool thing to give out before you die.

Fixed quote tag. ~Vi

[Gammagooey]

Duplicity Zach was commenting on you changing your invictus from Baby Spice to Zach, not from gut to baby spice.
I'm not even going to bother changing my vote because it seems like nobody else is willing to hammer anything this game. I'd prefer Gut's death over Duplicitys though.

[Gammagooey]

Oh and Gut if you're reading this And won't be on later today you should probably go ahead and claim since you're at L-2, Duplicity is willing to vote you, and I'm getting steadily closer to hammering anything that moves.

[Gammagooey]

This is me posting to say I'll be online for a while before deadline, although I will be gone for a maximum of 2 hours starting in a few minutes (leaving 3 hours to deadline once I'm back).
If Duplicity is at L-1 with Gut by the time I get back I'll consider hammering him and go over his+Gut's isos and all that jazz but right now I'd still rather see Gut dead and I'm not really expecting Duplicity to get into hammer range.

[Gammagooey]

So I may have lied about it me taking a maximum of 2 hours with other stuff because computer repair is hard. Probably gonna just get some dinner and then head back to the library for postan, shouldn't take too much longer.

Hai Fate.

[Gammagooey]

FUCKING HAI

GAMMA

WHAT DO I NEED TO APPEAL TO?

Uuuuuh go for appeal to why various posts are coming from scum.

isoing things and stuff.

[Gammagooey]

Sure we do, we have 2 and a half hours. Chilllll.
I'll even give you specific ones that make me hesitate on Dup-scumz.
His isos 13 and 17 look the most likely to come from town, tell me why they don't.

[Gammagooey]

Fate finish the game and then come back and talk to me about THINGS.

And I'm taking the towniest ones and I want you to tell me why they're scum-motivated. There's probably one or two more I haven't gotten to yet since I'm still reading through his iso.

Tarh, can you explain how you maintain suspicion over Quilford despite the fact that Khan stated he would invicdus Quilford and got shot? Furthermore can you attempt to elaborate on your reads outside of Quilford and MoI because your suspicions right now reads as highly targetted to the players posting a signifcant amount less. There also should be no reason to be against the voting system because even if there is a doctor or something similar which prevents mafia being inviducsed we know that the lack of invidcuse on the person with the leading votes leads them to be mafia.

Dance, I have a tendancy to use larger words than needed in my posts and it becomes much more incoherent in the early hours of the morning so my apologies but in future I'll try to be much more concise. If I may ask what means of communication are you two attempting to use to discuss read differences because your disagreement in thread reads strongly as if you haven't stopped to have a conversation on MSN or in QT.

I can understand the tone difference being decribed in MoI's play however I don't believe that it's a scum-tell. He doesn't have a tone that's consistent as town or mafia but rather his tone is defined by the occurances of the game, a key example of this would be in Jungle Republic where he started of being highly logical and then jumped into a debate with anyone that questioned him or his reads. Right now this is reading as highly similar to that, the meta case by Fate is incredibly nitpicky, selective and weak and I would much prefer a Sila or Gut lynch right now.

The Illumni's lack of activity is a complete null-tell considering DH's history as town, I've seen him lurk throughout multiple games however I want him to explain when and which parts of the thread he has read through.

Right now I still maintain strong town reads on Gamma (Quilford), Fate, DBG, Dance, Benmage and to a degree Vit as well. Not seeing the town read that Shift got from Bans reactions however I'll deal with that when I have a discussion with him later. I'm still highly confident that majority of the scum are within Sila, Baby, Zach and Gut however at the moment I'm relatively more confident in it being Sila and Gut. Silavors lack of any form of content or effort into this game in comparison to all of his town games is massive furthermore it reads as if he's attempting to lurk through the day in hope that the MoI lynch goes through rather than his. Off to bed I go, please don't quick lynch today I want to at least have a discussion with Shift and post all of our shared thoughts before the day ends.

Confirm Vote: Silavor
Uninvictus, Invictus: Gut

The coolness and calmness as well as instructions that MoI shows in Post #648 reads as geninue and town, although there's an element of wifom involved in it I do not see him reacting so calmly as mafia in that situation, especially with short deadlines and Fate pushing his lynch. Dances unvote and reconsideration of MoI's allignment slotted with his death at night increases the likelyhood that MoI is town, I don't see any logical reasoning for MoI to kill of potential supporters of his in a game with short days such as this.

With that said MoI's attack on VitamirR in Post #653 is god awful, Shift asked for meta on you as he'd never played with you or witnessed your games in the past, VitaminR provided that. Whether the conclusions on the meta is incorrect or not is irrelevant at this point in time as it was already brought up by Fate at this point therefore in what way is the addition of extra meta to either defend or prosecute you scummy when it's all something that can be backed up via reading the game or fulfilling a request made. I read the attack as more of MoI attempting to attack everyone voting him believing it's impossible for anyone to suspect him as town more than anything else though meaning yesterdays lynch was likely a double town one which explains the halt and stagnation near deadline.

Tldr: Fate, stop fucking tunnneling.

[Gammagooey]

Actually those are pretty much the only two big things that I have a hard time seeing coming from scum.
It's the town reads from 13 and actually going into MoI's post quoted in 17 that he went over I don't see why that post would look particularly genuine so ignore that one.

GO GO FATE TELL ME WHY DAT SCUM I BELIEVE IN YOU.

[Gammagooey]

We still have almost 2 hours left, take your time. Just ask them to delay the next game for 5 minutes so you can post stuff here.

[Gammagooey]

That is so helpful MoI we will be sure to keep that in mind after you are dead.

[Gammagooey]

I have my bad games and my good games. This one we'll find out which one it is later and MoI will be dead very soon and the entire game will be better for it.

[Gammagooey]

Also I'm totally voting MoI right now in case you didn't notice. <(o.o)>

[Gammagooey]

naaaaaaaaaaah that wouldn't be any fun. I like having fun.

You gonna give me that dup-13 scum motivation eventually y/n?

[Gammagooey]

I wanted you to go over the last part with all the town reads n' shiz.

[Gammagooey]

Gawd Fate you could say that about literally every post with a town read in the game.

Go over the actual post.
Tell me why those particular town reads are coming from scum. I don't think I'm asking too much.

[Gammagooey]

I think you could probably do better than that but I suppose it's good enough.
Going over one or two more things and then activating Decider-bot 26000.

[Gammagooey]

Decider-bot 26000 is named because it takes an average of 26 minutes to power up, obviously.

[Gammagooey]

Frustrating you by making you wait is so much more fun though.

But I might as well get on with it.

Unvote, Vote:Duplicity

Final invictus votecount means that MoI dies by like 7 votes more than anyone else.

If Dup is scum-
Illum should die tomorrow
DGB I'll agree with Naut in that she seems off- Attacking several people at once with the scumputer logic despite pretty much all of the top people attacking each other and not adding in some town reads seemed really odd. She did unvote Zach though when she could have just stayed on and given his attitude towards thinking he was being lynched today plus the outrage post to my case and he's probably town, and unvoting him would have been a very odd decision there for DGB-scum assuming that.
MoI will be dead and I'll be mildly surprised if he's scum but he's needed to die for ages so if he's scum bonus bonus.
Tar is still probably town due to the pointless bodyguard claim
Gut actually does have a small to moderate chance of being scum with dup if dup is scum based on how weird the wagons have been today and Dup's positions towards him and Zach- I'd definitely lynch Illum first though.
Aaaaaand I think that's all that I wanted to say before we go to night.
If I'm wrong about this then well my bad. You can hate on me in post-game. Or tomorrow if you're a living person and want to show me the power of your haterade.

[Gammagooey]

You know I'm pretty sure you'd do that as either alignment but it doesn't make it any less unnerving.

oh hey a non-cackle post that's better.

[Gammagooey]

oh noooooooooooooes

[Gammagooey]

On the bright side he didn't see the hammer post while making that so it COULD be coming from scum.
*unwarranted hope*

[Gammagooey]

Dup If you had actually said you were on in the hour that I was talking to Fate I would have, but there was no reason to delay it when I hammered.
Sorry if you're town. But before you go where did you meet me before like you said in the 7 months thing, I don't remember ever playing with you before aside from metamafia which wasn't that long ago.

[Gammagooey]

I'm okay with a massclaim. I absolutely 1000% want Illuminati dead today though, every other player in the game has SOMETHING that I think looks townie, even if it's a little thing that everyone will call me stupid for using as a tell, whereas I haven't seen anything town from Illum the entire game.

Vote: Illuminati

[Gammagooey]

I can go for this regarding Naut though

Primary invictus: Illuminati
Secondary invictus: Nautilius

[Gammagooey]

Oh, and I like calling Fate by a nickname but capsderp is dumb and also endorsed by scum.
Fate can I call you Gambit McGambitPants for the rest of the game?

[Gammagooey]

Also, just for you guys, I'll make something resembling a case on Illuminati.

Finally, DGB. She states that Fate, silavor AND MoI are all town reads and that my "strategic lurking" is the scummiest thing she's seen so far despite a quick lynch, a quick wagon and a wagon switch.

GARBAGE

Alright, I haven't read the entire game just yet. This read is subject to change and not because I'm a hydra. Just making that clear. I dunno what DH has said so far about silavor but I have no fucking clue why we're not voting this guy right now! That was a terrible hammer! Does anyone have a good reason to not lynch his scummy ass right now?

Anyone have something I should know about this townie being town so I can get off the vote before I look bad for it?

Since Illuminati never got back to me I'll use that question again and ask for a few odd reads or reasonings for things.

Hmmm, what did you want me to do? Sorry, I must have missed it.

I WANTED ODD READS OR REASONINGS FROM YOU YOU LITERALLY JUST QUOTED THE QUESTION

-no original scumhunting at all in his whole iso-

MURDER DEATH KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT

[Gammagooey]

mmmmmmmmmm

Unvote:
Vote: DGB

Invictus: Illuminati

I will PROBABLY argue against the DGB-vote if it remains at a later period of time. I would like to see DGB doing things though so it's fine for now.

[Gammagooey]

So I really want to say Things but I think it'll be a lot better for later-game if I hold off for a bit and let everyone else give their opinions on who's scum and such first.
So I'm gonna do this instead.
You guys get a big ol' post after either everyone currently in the game has said who they think is scum with at least a little bit of reasoning behind it or 36 hours pass. Everyone who says who they think is scum and why gets a little piece of Gamma's <3 to hold onto. And like some town points or something if you're into that.
Cya soon.

[Gammagooey]

I don't need anymore town points Gamma, and why the hell are we discussing reads extensively before the MC is done?

Well we can do that first but I don't think it's going to be super amazingly helpful. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Gammagooey]

And if we're gonna popcorn let's get on with it.
DGB chooooooose.

[Gammagooey]

DGB won't even pretend to take the time to read her scumbuddies' posts, why the HELL should we leave her alive?

Because we're going to lynch a REAL scumz instead. We can invictus her or something.
Also I'm pretty disapointed with everyone that's posted thus far today except Tar. I'd be even more disapointed with Illuminati if they weren't scum- DemonHybrid is still posting in several other games with pretty decent posts yesterday And today but not a peep here.
Sera is legit V/LA though.

[Gammagooey]

partying hard.

SOMEONE CALLED ME?
wait, wait, no, false alarm.
I have a SERIOUS BUSINESS post in an hour or two as promised.

[Gammagooey]

So anyway.
We're not lynching Zach today. Because Illuminati is scum.

A BIG, ACTUAL CASE:

Aside from the big OH MAN I HAVE A LIFE AND I'M PLAYING MAFIA YOU'RE SO WRONG post that could and does come from either alignment, there's nothing useful at all in his first 10 iso posts (0-9). Granted that alone could theoretically come from busy town or scum but then he goes into actual content.

His iso 10 is a thousand pounds of garbage. He takes those nice, big votecounts, quotes them, says who's on each wagon and matches up people on both of them, and then does NOTHING with it. No vote, no additional questioning for those who he pointed out, just a bunch of information with absolutely no attempt of scumhunting behind it.

And in that same post we have gems like these

For the record, I'm not calling silavor town nor scum. I'm just saying that the hammer means absolutely nothing.

He doesn't bother trying to get a read on silavor and just states that for Everyone trying to get a read on him this is what he thinks. It's infinitely more concerned with how people view him than how people view sila, considering that he might as well not have bothered saying anything about sila for the good it does everyone else.

-I understand that the Spyre lynch was a complete RVS lynch, with notable exception of the last few votes. When I get some sleep and come back from work, I'll sort those votes out. Especially Ban's.

Never bothers with sorting out the SpyreX wagon, because of the much more important suspicion on him from DGB and his need to interrogate her about it.

Finally, DGB. She states that Fate, silavor AND MoI are all town reads and that my "strategic lurking" is the scummiest thing she's seen so far despite a quick lynch, a quick wagon and a wagon switch.

Calls out DGB for a town read on Fate and two dead townies when both townies are under suspicion, basically trying to say "Hey you shouldn't be attacking me look at all those other scummy people that are playing worse than me instead"

Aaaaand time to skip ahead a bit.
iso 20 when Sera shows up-

Does anyone have a good reason to not lynch his scummy ass right now?

Absolutely posturing to look better- you can tell just by the tone that he's not actually interested in other people's reads of him, it's just so if there's role infos about or he flips town later he looks better for asking.

iso 23 he votes Gut over any and everyone he talked about yesterday, and has this in a following post

The sooner we lynch Gut, the better, in my opinion.

While never saying why he thinks Gut is scum.

iso 30 he QUOTES THE QUESTION I ASKED while asking me what I wanted him to do. Fate if you're all about lynching the cheeky scum then lynch this one first please.

And finally his most recent iso 33 votes Gut over MoI while stating he refuses to vote MoI, when TWO DAYS AGO

Hey, hey man, I have other games besides this one man.

Since Illuminati never got back to me I'll use that question again and ask for a few odd reads or reasonings for things.

Hmmm, what did you want me to do? Sorry, I must have missed it. Also, to the Zachrulez question:

And a Zachrulez wagon would not be out of the question either.

Unvote
Vote: Zachrulez

Also,

Invictus 1: MoI

Invictus 2(if MoI is lynched): Duplicity

with absolutely nothing since then to say why MoI is town then or since then.

LYNCH THE SCUMS.
ILLUMINATI FOR DEATH 2011.

[Gammagooey]

Wait what's that you say?
IT'S SCUM CONNECTIONS BONUS ROUND (with special guest lady gaga:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeWBS0JBNzQ)

Pretty sure at least one of MoI/Baby/Naut/Illuminati is scum if not more.

Baby, Nautilus, and Illuminati/DH desperately need to post.

The Illumni's lack of activity is a complete null-tell considering DH's history as town, I've seen him lurk throughout multiple games however I want him to explain when and which parts of the thread he has read through.

^that one is particularly good considering he's lurking through this game while posting in others this game-day

Though given the Sila town flip Post #664 and Post #666 by The Illuminati look awful especially considering he claims to not have read through the entirety of the game or read into the reasoning behind the MoI wagon. DBGs summarization of her case against him in Post #687 is something that I actually find myself agreeing with a great deal but at the same time it's a fact that DH does have a decline in time avaliable to spend on the site which is highly evident in [Redacted] though I have never seen him attempt to use excuses in any of his town games that I've observed of his in the past. I need to read into this in the morning when I have a functioning brain but ugh.

DISTANCE DISTANCE DISTANCE I CERTAINLY WON'T BE VOTING OR INVICTUSING HIM THOUGH DISTANCE DISTANCE

[Gammagooey]

Zach I'm iffier about because of things and stuff. (his ragepost plus his post expecting his death because of how the game was going)
It Would be super gratifying to know that I invictus'd scum n2 while most everyone else invictus'd baby spice but I'm infinitely more confident in illumi-scum.

[Gammagooey]

Also I have a really hard time seeing Zach and Gut scum together. Whereas Illuminati can be scum with anyone in the game because he's scum.

[Gammagooey]

tar claim last.

[Gammagooey]

he just asked about claiming bodyguard targets, which he hasn't done yet, which should happen after EVERYTHING else happens because he town.

[Gammagooey]

also,

VOTE: Illuminati

<3

[Gammagooey]

Illum is usually on around lunchtime and then after 10pm-11 or 12 (EST) given posts in other games, and Sera is V/LA until tomorrow. So we've got a few hours.

[Gammagooey]

oooooooh actually he posted in a mish-mash game while I was making Monster-case: A tale of scums and singing. Mayybe he'll be here soon?

[Gammagooey]

ILLUMINATI I HAVE A COOL SONG FOR YOU COME LISTEN TO IT WHILE YOU POST.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTtexOw5 ... re=related

[Gammagooey]

Eeeeeh I kinda want any other tracker or something that might claim to claim targets now instead of going hurf Tar bodyguarded X day 2 but Tar's dead guess we can't confirm ittttttttt.

Personally I'd like naut to claim next and just continue the popcorn with the very good assumption that illum is scum no matter what he claims and thus can be ignored.

[Gammagooey]

Fate stop being vaguely frustrated. We're gonna lynch a scums and party. No need to dwell on the past.

[Gammagooey]

Dear game.


That is all.

[Gammagooey]

Eeeeeeeh I'd like claim after benmarge and gut unless one of them want to popcorn to me since aside from illumi-scum they're the only people I can see as potentially fakeclaiming scumbags at this point.
If you really want me to claim faster then say so and I will, I'll be checking the thread throughout the early morning if you're still on.

[Gammagooey]

Hey. Amrun you're getting lynched

Too bad so sad scum

This basically. Your predecessor decided it would be a great idea to avoid posting here at all costs while posting in other games in mutiple game-days.

Sorry~

And I might not be on for a bit and Gut claimed so I have invictus and no other abilities.

[Gammagooey]

@Mod: Please prod Benmage

Activity Overview says "not yet". ~Vi

[Gammagooey]

: /
We're finishing the massclaim. If you vote before that I will strangle you through the internet.

[Gammagooey]

Hello benmage, you should come join us for claim time.
Also personally wondering why you didn't claim yesterday but that's more of a curiousity thing than you scum cuz' this thing.

[Gammagooey]

k.
Fate unless you have an impressively good reason to want Ban to claim before you claim please.
Ridiculous gambits in what is probably LYLO is not a good reason. just FYI.

[Gammagooey]

Hey, I'm here and reading stuff. I feel pretty much the same way as Tarhalindur about the situation- Benmage looks a lot worse than Ban but a guilty in LYLO is all kinds of paranoia. Gonna go over stuff in more detail in a bit.

[Gammagooey]

Uuuuggggghhhhhh.
I should probably vote for Benmage. I keep going over Ban and I'm not getting anything except Town. I don't see a huge amount pointing to Ben-scum over town but it's definitely more than Ban- ben's early play looked town to me and the biggest incriminating things are his slowrolling his vote from Nautilius to Illuminati yesterday and voting Gut on day 3.

I'm just having trouble seeing town win this even if Ben+Naut are scum, which seems really likely. Vi wouldn't put this much power into a 3-scum game and if Ban is scum on a 3-person team he wouldn't be faking a guilty now. Ban bussing doesn't make any sense- Benmage would have to have some power that can be used on Fate or claiming a guilty on him would be less than worthless and get them both killed, and unless it's bodyguard or something really weak the setup makes sense as 2 bgs+ 2 trackers- a scouter against a single tracker and two bodyguards doesn't make sense.

A scum doctor isn't in the setup because MoI is dead and Baby Spice is dead and because it would turn the entire setup from "town about to die have their last say" into scum-sided outguess the mafia.

Which means chances are ridiculously high that if Ben is scum then Fate and Ban are town. And Tar I would be more than amazed if he pulled out the bodyguard outraged claiming act as scum. Which only leaves DGB as the last scum. Which is certainly possible but I still have trouble seeing DGB-scum with her switch off the Zach wagon and case on Illuminati early on that went all the way into other games and his blatantly retarded activity level here which she would have known would look bad once Illum flipped town.

Tar isn't going to believe it but I'm really not scum. I guess what I'm looking for is for the game and the scumteam to just fit right in and make sense but I'm not getting that. I would like DGB's thoughts on the lynch before we go through with this and for other people to go through this and see if I'm missing something. I still think Ban's town and if he is scum the scumteam is something ridiculous like him+Fate+Nautilius and I also don't think Fate would be such an asshole about MoI earlier this game and push so hard for a mislynch instead of bussing like he does so well. So basically I'll be voting Benmage before the day is over and hope that all the paranoia about this is for nothing and that DGB is just being awesome scum and we're capable of lynching her tomorrow. If you've got any questions about WORDS WORDS WORDS then ask 'em.

Gamma out.

[Gammagooey]

This post is reminding everyone that this game exists. Hiii.

[Gammagooey]

Hey Ban, who'd you invictus each night. Probably won't be helpful but I can hope.

[Gammagooey]

Ban claimed a track guilty on Benmage, so THINKING is happening. Would you like to join us?

[Gammagooey]

read over stuff ben didz
read over stuff ban didz
comment on stuff dey didz and say which you think is more likely scum.
Don't vote quite yet though.

[Gammagooey]

Eeeeeeeh. Paranoia mostly. You should read my big post on the last page too and tell me how crazy and/or scum I am.

Also you should probably read over what Duplicity didz regarding ben/ban too (and personally I think that it points to Ban-town)

[Gammagooey]

DGB I have a real hard time seeing Tar as scum after his claim outburst ridiculousness. I WILL give that Ban should track him tonight though. A useful track on anyone else is very unlikely for reasons that will become a self-fufilling prophecy if I were to actually say them.

[Gammagooey]

naaaaaah. maybe later tonight.

[Gammagooey]

Actually let Tar be the L-2 vote so he can make sure to send his bodyguard shenanigan in. Plus I might not actually be on later tonight.
THE PLAN:
Everyone

Nooks

Invictus Naut
Ban tracks Tar
Tar bodyguards Ban

If there are objectionz let's hear 'em. Even if they're silly ones from Naut and Benmage, as we can very politely disagree and condemn them to death, in that order.

fate you ninjaz

[Gammagooey]

Ben if you're seriously stupid enough to think Tar wouldn't hammer as scum here then I will shrug my shoulders in endgame because with you sila and Illum and arguably MoI as town this game was borderline unwinnable.

And although your responses did give me a TINY bit of paranoia all I had to do to clear it up was go back to Duplicity's iso and look at how he talked to Ban.
Giving Tar the hammer cause he wants it. And he does deserve it for being on Benmage's ass the entire game so.

(and drunk posting is fun, don't be hatin'. Although adding that rule that has the mod make fun of you in any/all drunk posts would certainly be a welcome addition)

[Gammagooey]

: / Fate didn't you already crash one motorcycle and get stuck in the hospital for a while.
Call a cab next time.

[Gammagooey]

Not scumz. Although I would like to know how cab drivers are merchants of death.

[Gammagooey]

There's a lot more pointing to Naut than DGB in my opinion, he's the last guy on Dup's "at least one scum"+desperately needs to post list, Dup saying more than once that he wanted to read over Naut but not getting around to it, and Naut's timing and pushes of his cases to when a wagon is starting to form on them instead of trying to convince people of anything before that looks more like scum than town.

Assuming Benmage flips scum scouter DGB+Naut as the last two makes the most sense to me though.

[Gammagooey]

who do these alarms point to then. Actually just fill in the blank. Scumz are DrippingGoofBall, Benmage, and _______

[Gammagooey]

Personally I don't think Tar is scum but given THE PLAN if he did fakeclaim bodyguard then he will look sadly at the sunset as he is noosed by Ban because of track result or by everyone else because Ban is dead.
Tarrrr you gonna get your hammer on soon?