Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Ban]

I hate coming late to a party... Especially one i wasn't invited to, But I never pass up a chance to inch spy a little closer to death.

Vote: Spy

Now to ignore him for 70 pages and then push for his lynch like my life depended on it!

[Ban]

I know, I can't believe it only took you two posts to forget to sign... *shakes head* fails...

[Ban]

Normally I would be sad that something like happened without my brilliant intellect being partly behind it... but a dead Spy just fills me with such joy-joy I think I'll manage... Hey, anyone want to go for a two-fer and get rid of Fate in the next three pages?

[Ban]

WHY ARE YOU NOT REACTING TO THE TERRIBLE LYNCH

I see your problem Quil. I understand the hesitation at lynching on page four but you are overlooking the more obvious fact... That lynching Spy is never terrible.

[Ban]

Because he is like a cockroach... But in a good way... He takes so freaking long to die, women scream when they see him, and fifty percent of the time, he's scum all the time! So the easiest solution is just to squish him now.

I'm sure we're all disappointed we loose a bit of quality time with him, but hey. he'll be there next time... *Evil look*

[Ban]

You going to out your alt now?

Naw, that'll just confuse me. Have to let it run it's course you know. besides, DGB will pick up on it at some point and raise a ruckus.

Objectively speaking, we probably did no worse than your average 50-day Day 1, and though one can argue we have less information, long day 1 aren't ever re-read properly, so they are counterproductive in some ways. That's how I choose to console myself, the alternative being hitting the bottle.

Plus, you have to consider how this game looks like it will play out. By my calculations we could have upwards of six corpses tomorrow. Honestly, I think a longer day one would have just added to the confusion tomorrow.

On a sidenote, I used to hit the bottle too. but then I realized that you could just pull the cap off... so much easier on my stomach without all the broken glass in it you know.

[Ban]

*sigh* can we end this day closer to a time I'm not working or asleep so I don't miss the first eighteen pages...

Ok I'll talk fast to catch up. Fate is scum, Duplicity is scum, Quil is not confirmed town but I do agree it is a pretty good assumption we can make for a while. I want to say I don't see Sila as scum for making that hammer but truth is he didn't really make a post until Spy was already at L-1. So yeah I could see him as scum making the choice to join the wagon by hammer vs. staying off of it.

Vote: Duplicity

for your 216... I'd rather see fate in chains personally but I don't see that having any chance what-so-ever. still this nice little plan you two cooked up to control the invictus targets actually has merit as a second lynch and a second vote count to analyze.

Invictus: Sillavor

I really want to type fate here but I can wait until the rest of you come around first. I agree Silavor will be a problem later and there is a 'good enough' chance that he could be scum even with that hammer.

On the brighter side of things.. Tar and DGB are both town... yay... Love that! While I know it's a bit hypocritical for me to both agree with the Invictus plan and think you're both town for in some ways fighting against it... but.. look over there!

*runs away*

Baby Spice (5): Fate, danceHello, Zachrulez, benmage, Nautilius
Tarhalindur (1): Quilford
Gut (2): Duplicity, VitaminR
Silavor (2): Gut,

Tar

, Ban

With 16 alive it takes 9 To hammer an INVICTUS

[Ban]

After further thought about Invictus votes and the likely nature of the punisher, I DO NOT support further Invictus voting. We're probably dealing with either an Invictus Death Note or some kind of protective role (full Doctor, Illusionist, etc.) - something that screws over claiming Invictus targets, at any rate, since that fits WWTD (What Would Tarhalindur Do?).

I'm interested, what exactly would an Invictus punisher do? see I think some sort of invictus redirect or just a pure invictus protection haver/giver would be the obvious choices so I'm interested in what you mean by punisher? Perhaps I've just lost touch with the lingo that you old whipper snappers are using nowadays..

Body guard I believe doesn't intercept invictus kills... KK chose Hindu is my understanding.

Actually they do... or that's how I understand it. Vi had to specify what happens when you redirect 'primary' kills, so I assume that means directing non-primary kills has to be possible.

LOL YOU GOT SPUNK KID

ILL LET YOU LIVE A DAY OR TWO.

BUT YOU'RE DEATH HAS BECOME INEVITABLE

That's exactly what I thought you were going to say... See I wrote it down on the back of this cocktail napkin! Odd how I can always predict the words that will come out of your mouth when I'm drunk. And yes I agree. Outing two scum this early has to spell my doom rather quickly. But the way I see it I get to see both you and spy die essentially by my hands in the same game... *sniff* I might cry at the pure joy that brings me... Also as a side note you actually being scum when I do this is partially nice as well...

[Ban]

Waiting for posts with meaning from Ban, his reaction to the Spy lynch was not good at all and had no real substance.

Did I even react to it? Oh right, I was overjoyed... ah good times... I can understand why you would think it wasn't good, but it hardly lacked substance. I was clearly ok with it. Would I have unvoted if I had the chance when he was at L-1, probably... Even I wouldn't willingly participate in his hanging without some real reason behind it, but I'm hardly loosing sleep over it...

How exactly was my reaction 'not good at all' to you?

You cheeky fuck.

Let's hear your grand CASE on me, because so far its:

Lol fates plan is awesome //sheep
+
Fates SCUM ill wait till everyonecomearound.

GL WITH MY MISLYNCH

Though I DO appreciate the free NK immunity you've given me with this laughable scum plan.

Decided to put on the big boy pants now eh? I must have said the right thing...

You presented the 'town plan' of how to use our game mechanic to our utmost advantage. And it's a good plan mind you, I get the whole deal behind it, really nicely structured.. and the framing was solid. And I loved the color, could really see the effort you put into building it. Really, great stuff.

the problem is you killed KK last night. KK outed his invictus target in thread, which told you he was a great kill with no risk to you or your buddies blah blah blah, speculation on my part so lets move to the juicy bit. Unfortunately, you can't actually bank on that happening everyday. With KK dead, somebody would tie it to his invictus claim and eventually everyone would stay moot on the topic. Which means future kills run the risk of possibly taking you out with it. So by issuing this plan you not only make everyone reveal their invictus, but also get to help control who that person is. Not only warning you of dangers, but letting you skirt them.

Plus I've always been a believer that the people who come out with these great "town should do this" plans is usually scum, so I'm sure I'm biased in that regards... And we can't overlook my Fate hate... that might also be a factor.

[Ban]

DGB doesn't need to be questioned.

Well I'm sure she doesn't need to be.. but have you ever considered her feelings? Maybe after a long day at work she would like someone to take an interest... How was your day DGB? Is that a new shirt? it looks good.. Are those cookies for everyone?

[Ban]

Why, so glad you asked, the kitchen is half demolished, the workers arrived at a quarter to 5 when there is a whole day of work to do, the cabinet installer was supposed to be there tomorrow but now we're demolishing instead... and the contractor wanted to charge me for something he said he would cover... the electrician didn't understand my instructions... the guy that bought my used kitchen cabinets came to pick them up and many weren't removed yet... I was hungry but no kitchen and Minineko was gone with the car so I couldn't pick up restaurant food... my husband is staying away from the mess coming home late... I had to plaster some holes they made in the walls... and then in between all this I have to look up fancy words to impress Duplicity...

Man... that's rough... so, uh does that mean I can't have a cookie then?

YOU WITH THE FUCKING KORLASH ALT

If I was Korlash I would have voted myself at the beginning... yeah... What you gunna do now? Eh? Eh?

LAST TIME IT WAS OK BECAUSE HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT SPYREX AND (ME)

BUT THIS?

THIS IS ANTI TOWN "IM NOT GONNA BE ARSED TO PLAY THIS GAME" "IM A FATE HATER SO ILL CALL HIM SCUM" BULL SHIT.

whoa whoa whoa whoa... I don't ever call people scum without reason regardless of my fake feelings towards them... short of perhaps some random ones here and there. Also, I seem to be one of the last old school players who actually still treat this game.. as a game. I never don't play.

HOW BOUT YOU NK DGB TONIGHT OUT OF MERCY YOU CHEEKY FUCK?

I would never kill DGB... ;_; That's too far man... *sniff* TOO FAR!

[Ban]

I wanted to be friends but then Fate was all like 'no you're ugly' and I was like 'make me' and he was like 'nu-uh!'...

...

We'll be nice... *sadface*

on that note, what's this history between Korlash and Fate/Spy.

Not that I know

anything

about that...
KK's game of uber fun mafia

[Ban]

Damn you fate... always one step ahead of me... *shakes fist* [but in a nice way] >.>

[Ban]

Ban, why are you suspecting Fate for coming up with something helpful and protown? Yeah, okay, it could be a potential towncred thing, but Fate hasn't done anything outright scummy.

because statistically scum are the founders of huge plans like this... Obviously this is a fake statistic but it hasn't let me down yet... I could go into all the reasons why I think the plan was made by scum, but ultimately *short of my previously mentioned belief* I would say timing is a factor. He had that thing ready coming into the day... you know, like it was discussed and planned out by a group last night! *slams fist down*

I know, doesn't sound vastly convincing. But we all have our own things that make us suspect people. And this is one of those things for me...

[Ban]

What exactly do you mean? Did I think about who to invictus, or did I think about how to use it to my advantage? Because the answer I think is no actually... I did have a dream about going on an adventure with Hello Kitty and we caught a trout that was seriously, no lie, this big... Man it was a good day/night/day...

[Ban]

I meant either. I thought about changing my Invictus target during Night 1 (well, I thought about thinking of changing and realised the odds of me dying were pretty negligible and my target wasn't half bad) and it certainly seems like a natural time to think of it to me. Given the short Night, coming up with an Invictus plan strikes me as a town tell if anything.

Did you think of an invictus plan? Are you town? *tilts head to the side*

the point is, you thought about what to do with your invictus, fate thought about what to do with everyone else's... Vastly different.

---Is it just me or has the amount of innuendo on this site spiked recently?

Well don't look now but you're spiking my innuendo... ok I'm not very good at this... Sorry everybody...

[Ban]

They're different, Ban, but it's not to hard to segue from one to the other.

Yes, it is possible to segue but you can't overlook all the downsides either. And given the way he came out with it so quick, I'm willing to bet he didn't... because to him they wouldn't be downsides.

Or... you know, like he came up with it while nothing was happening at night!

Sure, everything makes sense when you logically work it out and bring reason into the discussion... From my point of view this game has the shortest night span I've ever played... So this argument really doesn't sway me. But I admit, I'm sure it's possible Fate came up with it as a whim while hypothetically being town. But it's equally possible it's a scum ploy, and from my point of view the latter happens a lot more.

Fate’s Invictus plan is incredibly useless given this is a Vi game. I’d expect he’d know so since the is probably a Tar role.

I'm liking this illusion guy.. he says things that make sense to me. So Fate should have knowledge that there is a possibility of something that makes his plan entirely worthless and probably only helps scum... Yeah, it's all adding up now! In fact, it's adding up so fast I think I'll need a second abacus to keep tally...

[Ban]

Explain.

Geeze, when did it suddenly become law we had to explain ourselves to people... *shakes head* I miss the good ol' days...

The only potential downside to the invictus voting plan involves mafia having the possiblity and opportunity to manipulate the votes during the day phase to prevent themselves from being incivitused however the votes will provide massive amounts of content and interactions to read back for later in the game.

Here you assist fate with his plan by coming in as the voice of reason. You make sure to outline the biggest fault in the plan but quickly chime in with a follow-up 'good for town' spin. As someone else said you talk about both sides of it without taking a stance on it one way or the other. And lastly you clearly are fudging the truth. There is other potential downsides, just not as obvious and possibly not as dangerous. And furthermore, your downside actually potentially counters your plus side. What will be the point of having all this info three days down the road when the scum have already killed enough of us off through their 'clever' manipulation to stride into victory?

Don't get me wrong, I still like the idea. I just realize it's probably a ploy by the scum.

So short answer, you come in as the voice in the crowd going "I can see the reason behind it but it could also be bad" then you step back into the crowd to see what everyone else does with it.

Please point out something you said of use/substance/town in these three posts:

I made it quite clear that I knew about the Spy lynch and was ok with it. You might not want to admit it is a legitimate piece of information, my stance on the biggest issue at the time, but it is. Maybe not the hugest contribution that day, but considering I only got to post in twilight... I would be sad if it was you know.

Most of your recent posts have been playful banter/filler. This does not help town at all. The only helpful things you've posted are your FoS against Fate, with reasoning that I don't agree with though I can understand, and your response to Gut.

My playful banter helps everyone have a good time... well mostly just me but what a hell of a time. And I think you're saying you don't like that I've only scum hunted 'this' much... Got it...

[Ban]

This was made before your vote on us.

We also invictus voted BEFORE 216.

hey you're right, hell I even looked... how did I miss that...

Hmm... that does slightly change things... let me sleep on this one.

And while I disapprove of playful banter, I suppose I'll have to get over it as it seems to be commonplace this game. Overall, Ban gets townpoints.

I... don't get why I got town points...

My "plan" here was an idea that I came up with as to PREVENT a repeat of last night (a scum double kill), and since I came up with it myself I highly DOUBT that the Tar mechanic this game just so HAPPENS to be some weird shit involving predicting Invictus targets, because I MYSELF am Town.

Well this game is pretty much named after this specific mechanic... so yeah... I would understand why someone would think the special Tar role could possibly be centered around that.

Hot damn thats gonna get messy -_-

I don't know why you're getting all messy thinking about me as town but... thanks?

[Ban]

So you think a Tar out there, (and if its anyone its Me so when I flip town that shit better STOP being speculated), that has some win con tied to: "YOU MUST PREDICT WHO WILL GET INVICTED TROLOKLOLOLOL IF YOU GUESS RIGHT YOU WIN THE LOTTERY!?!??"

No.... but hypothetically if I was on the street watching this game play out I might think the tar role was like an invictus proof, or perhaps an invictus switcher, or something silly like that.

@Ban, townpoints were for your overall reaction to my push on you. You're still below Tar/Quil/Fate by far though.

I see. I thought you meant town points for something silly like accepting my banter or my point about yesterday... I guess reaction makes more sense.

Unvote:,

for the invictus thing. It's not as bad when you actually did commit to a stance.

Vote: Vitamin

for kissing up to fate.

BUT AN MOI SCUM FLIP WILL GIVE ME GREAT PERSONAL SATISFACTION.

Like, messy satisfaction?

[Ban]

If I did we need to pull that thing up and sell it on Craigslist... Do you have any idea what the going rate for a sexy slab of pavement is right now? neither do I... Perhaps this isn't the best thing for us to be heading into a joint venture with...

Wait, how much do you know about novelty slip covers?

[Ban]

Here’s the truth on Fate’s ‘Meta-Evidence’ – it’s crap.

*nods* makes sense... Although I have to admit meta that I wasn't personally involved in is not my strongest suit.

This is the kind of defense you see from scum who've been cornered by a case they think is utter crap. It's just like when The Fonz got lynched back in Stargate SG-1 as SK due to perceived connections to revealed scum.

This is the second time so far I've been stopped in my tracks to contemplate this bold statement of his. I agree with you it's the type of backlash from being backed into a corner, but that doesn't just have to come from scum. Arrogant and aggressive players can respond in the same way if they think they are being blindsided by inferior cases. A there is a thin line between inform the mentally brainwashed and frighten the allied masses.

Perhaps it's my dislike of Fate's case, or my agreement that Sila should be an agreed-upon name (as invictus not lynch though) but I think you are misanalyzing this statement of his.

I'm sad to see similarities between me and Fate... *sigh* I'll start scheduling appointments with my therapist now. Annnd as much as I like my vote and wanted to see where it went I don't like people playing games around an L-1...

Unvote:, vote: Silavor

Invictus:VitaminR

I would still rather see Sila as the invictus choice though.

[Ban]

Is it Zach? No wait, he's probably been scum before... Gut! It has to be Gut...

What do I win?

[Ban]

*shrug* I pointed out that what Fate said was similar to what I had said previously. Feels like you're looking for a reason to vote me.

First of all, it was Ban and, clearly, what I meant was that I got the feeling he wanted to vote me and just needed to make up a reason for it (either because his vote is insincere or because he has some sort of gut read he wants to justify).

Quite the opposite. I didn't want to put forth a lot of effort in my vote just to have it swallowed up when other wagons start taking precedent. I think my comment represented my overall assessment of you while keeping it dumbed down enough I didn't have to get caught up in kicking a dead horse... If you'll pardon the disturbing imagery.

the fact is your Iso is pretty much a straight up fish in a barrel tell hunt, I wouldn't know where to start. You shrug Sila off as town to distance yourself from his inevitable wagon and possible lynch, be that a sign he himself is town I wouldn't venture to guess yet But to completely dismiss him and never talk about him again, barring in mind he is one of the top two wagons today and the second in line for invictus it screams scum to me either way. You call Fate's invictus idea 'obviously great' without any rhyme or reason on your end, I think I've made my feelings on that matter clear. And of course you take the time to look up and link games from MOI's past, admitting to taking the time to 'read up on him' yourself, and implying you came to conclusions from this meta. Now I'm no expert on meta in general but I do believe it requires you to take certain posts and playstyles from game A and compare them to certain posts and playstyles from game B, then present your finding to the town as a whole. instead, you take the time to do all this and then choose to chime in with a /agree to someone you've already labeled obv. town. It's bullshit, plain and simple.

One comment that what Fate said was similar to what I said previously (which was just true, and unless I can read minds, hardly a planned thing) is by no means "cronyism." It was hardly significant enough to change anyone's mind about anyone.

Where did you ever say anything regarding MOI's meta? The only thing you mentioned about MOI that Fate had mentioned was the part about him saying "I caught all this scum blah blah" which had nothing to do with MOI's actual meta when you said it. You claimed it looked "forced", not different from other games.

I've also noticed certain things between you and Fate. You both say MOI is pulling "shtick", which is a common enough word but I don't like the coincidence between two people attacking the same person for similar things using the same phrasing. It is an irrelevant detail that proves nothing I know, but it certainly makes me feel this attack on MOI is constructed and both of you are reading from the same script if you catch my drift.

As you can see my vote on you wasn't exactly an out of the blue gut read, however as much as I would like to I have to put you in the same category as Fate and hold off on you until tomorrow...

[Ban]

Case, point, match... Cash the fucking check!

[Ban]

Matching people: Tar (first wagon), Ban (second wagon), Fate (first wagon)

So Naut gets a pass then? Seems kinda unfair, where can I get his lawyer?

Ban: Please sum your silavor case up to me.

Sorry mate, wouldn't say I have one. I will say that I normally do see a hammer like that as irrelevant with lack of any other supporting factors, i.e. a fairly decent case without the hammer, but in this case he didn't even post until Spy was at L-1(technically). If he had 5 or 6 posts during the buildup of the Spy wagon to his name then the hammer wouldn't look like scum scrambling to jump on the wagon before it leaves the station. Add in the fact he's just another worthless vote that's given to Fate (and Naut) to play with and I am under the impression he needs to die. Personally I want him to be the group invictus target though. Multiple reasons on that front but needless to say I don't feel you need to know those unless it actually happens.

As a consolation prize I would be happy to sum up my Fate, Brief, and Vitamin cases for you....

[Ban]

Uh... well I'm not going to hold the whole "account activated" over her head because the way I see it there is still only one head talking right? So it's not like some master plan to come into the game now.

As for wagon analysis... Considering Spy has flipped, analyzing his wagon is a good thing regardless of who is doing it. I get the whole "Illuminati" wasn't on any wagons and so it's weird to come in and try to chastise others for it, but that's the game.

The not being on a wagon right now could have merit but... I mean if I had my way I wouldn't be either. What can I say, I like people sticking to their convictions even when social pressure tells them not to.

...
... What I mean to say is DGB is completely right and we should all listen to her so she doesn't hit me... >.>

[Ban]

Sorry I've been awol for so long. Work just got through kicking my ass double time. Sorry everybody, sorry... so sorry... Ehhh who am I kidding, I'm too tired to actually care...

lets see... blah blah blah, Faterage... blah blah blah, Disapointing Gamma... blah blah blah... Oh vitaminRon! Woohoo!

That's how I read the silavor hammer. Take it or leave it.

Ok I choose to take it... now it's mine and you're left with nothing... So... not what are you going to do? Huh? That's right...

No I'm fine with you getting a town read on him, I'm just not fine with you ignoring him for the rest of the day. 'hey see that guy over there everyone is arguing about killing or not killing? yeah I'm just going to ignore him even though I have a fairly firm stance on him...' Doesn't really strike me as the proper attitude.

I do think it is the best way of using our Invictus and I haven't seen a good argument against it that's not based on trying to outguess the mod.

Fair enough.

In large games, I often only post my conclusions and only outline my thought processes when asked, simply because I don't have the time.

Well up until now I would argue you didn't even post your conclusions. Literally all you said was /agree with fate. that isn't a conclusion, that's nothing.

Alright, I'll outline my thinking. I read up on MoI because I wanted to know if the sort of unreasonable arrogance in his posts was sincere, since the only thing I knew about him was that he was supposed to be a good player. Reading up on MoI, he seems a really reasonable player when he's town and unreasonably confident as scum. His play here seems to lack the nuance of his town game. This was my impression based on just reading the ISOs of the games I linked and a few more. That's what I meant when I referred to his shtick. Fate said a similar thing.

I'm willing to buy that. Are you saying you did the ISO before or after your post 344?

I will admit that Fate doesn't worry me at all. We played together at Goofbash and I feel I can generally read Fate pretty well. I'm pretty sure he's town in this game.

Oh yeah, rub that in my face... 'Hey ban I was at goofbash! I shook the president's hand. I sleep with super models.' You know what, screw you... >.> I do alright for myself... and I've shaken people who look like the president's hands... so... Stop being a jerk when you talk in my head...

[Ban]

Vote: Vitamin

Invictus: MOI

There, everyone is happy and fate can shut up. Awesome.

[Ban]

Where's the case on Vitamin again?

Can we start posting votes with Reason.

ZACH- explain gut. Just for the record.

Pretty much in my ISO, he knows what it is.

Why no call out on Gamma's vote?

[Ban]

Ban, make an interesting funny post about inneundos or what have you and vote MoI.

Sorry, all I have ready is a piano soliloquy and a joke about two paper salesmen on a farm. ha ha... ahhh, it's... it's not even that funny really...

But I never made a deal with you to hammer anyone so you can't extort me into anything. sorry mate. Be happy with your invictus. Smile...

There really isn't anything to call out. He's not really giving anything with his vote.

He's felt off all game and I haven't been able to put my finger on why that is.

Maybe, but if bens going to call out our votes seems off to leave gamma alone.

Gamma is conftown in my book. And Vitamin looked protwn on pg 27.

so confirmed town don't need to back up votes like the rest of us? Hot damn... That is a nice perk. Bet they also get their own parking spaces.

[Ban]

Even setting aside that I'm not the most active poster, what was I going to say? My gut feeling is that silavor is town? And I don't really know him well enough to have been super-sure of that read. Also, it looked for a while like we'd get a Magna lynch, so I wasn't too worried about it. The silavor hammer happened kinda quickly.

The hammer happened quickly, but Sila's wagon was going on all day... As the leading competing wagon I would think your opinion on him would have come out at some point in at least a half attempt to pull more attention from it and onto Magna... As for what you would say... couldn't help you there. honestly, I'm at a loss. maybe "don't vote Sila, he's town. Vote Magna"... I'm not a word smith, I'm just trying to tie some stuff up here. Give me a break! God!

I get the "not very active" though. I'm the same way and I'm sure I lacked some comments on a couple big named players yesterday...

I could definitely have posted more. I find large games more difficult. There's an overwhelming number of players to read and I usually take some time before I post. So, by the time I make up my mind about something, a few more pages have usually passed.

*blink* Hey man, if you keep saying things that make sense I might have to change my opinion of you. I think there has literally been 14 pages added just while I was writing this post up...

But I have not only said that I agree with Fate. I only said that twice, about the Invictus plan and MoI. The Invictus plan is a good one and MoI is scum. Soooooo.

Well my point was that you never posted your conclusion to the meta you did on Magna, the only response I saw was /agree. Even your 344 didn't clarify that it was in response to a meta.

Now Ban, what do you think of MoI? Do you think his case against me was reasonable? What do you think of his vote today?

Magna is so wise... he's like a miniature Buddha... covered in hair. i kinda have to think his case was reasonable because at the time it was essentially a more elegantly phrased version of my own. I would say his vote is crap but I actually have some things against Gamma myself. Nothing that's going to trump the whole KK kill mind you, but I'm not one of the people calling him outright confo town. Personally, I would agree it should have gone on gut though. So... I guess yeah, it is sorta crap.

[Ban]

Man if you people keep this up I might not be able to sleep or work ever again... Lets see... Blah blah blah Fate and Gamma continue to illustrate why speed weddings in Vegas rarely work. Gut stuff happens... Liking that so far. Dup 837 gives me dejavu on him. Might have to revive that old flame. Magna and DGb can't both be wrong... that's like saying eight people are wrong about how delicious Life cereal is. It's impossi- holy shit, Magna and DGb are both wrong... Vitamin I was just starting to like you too but that's way too many of those "I don't think we should lynch Gut" posts. I attack you for not doing more and you go way overboard with these whispers of 'it's a bad lynch'... I just... you... confound me. Damnit tar beat me to it. Oh well, he says it better then I could have anyway.

I collect odd reads and reasonings for my secret jar in the fridge.

Really, you have a secret jar in the fridge too? Wow... Here I thought it was just my roommate... Now I feel like I owe him an apology...

I'm going to drop an ultimatum. FOLLOW ME OR LYNCH ME. There is no middle ground.

Whoa, you're like the fourth person to drop an ultimatum today... Crap, where was I when the ultimatum van came by, in the loo? Damnit now I want one... How about... cake or death? wait no, that one's already taken... Is that even an ultimatum? Now I have to look this up, it's a type of Frisbee right? ... Oh look at that, I was way off...

Dear Ban, and Gammagooey,

It ain't happening.

Vote for the action!

Yours eternally,

DGB

Dear DGB, (you're awesome by the way... just thought you should know)

So good to hear from you.

I was afraid you had lost that cocktail napkin with all my information on it.

The blue one I got from Dino's Bar and Grill.

Yes, it is a real place...

What, I gave you the napkin for crying out loud?

Anyway, this seems to be going on for far longer then I thought so I should go.

Yours inflamingo,

Ban

Anyway, I'm fairly certain given Vitamin's take on it Gut will end up another mislynch. I still don't like the Magna wagon, but looking at the VC the only way I can see scum pushing it so hard while trying to stop a potential mislynch would be if it was some sort of huge bus. Given that, I think I might have to ultimately place my vote on Magna...

My biggest concern is why scum would bus right now over a mislynch? Given the six lost townies, another potential 3 dead would have to put them in a golden spot. Wow that's a mindscrew. If Magna is scum, then I must be wrong about the scum. But if I'm wrong about the scum then my reasoning for Gut town is wrong. If Gut isn't town then it's a good bet Magna is, which would mean I'm right about the scum, but then Gut is back to being town...

This is why I don't like to think about things a lot... I'm usually right, but the rest of the world gets so confused it can't tell what it is anymore. Can we all just split the difference and lynch Vitamin while invictusing Magna? Then we're all happy and I don't have to watch you all be super confusing.

[Ban]

Uh, I hate days like yesterday. All set to come home and the big man in charge walks up and says he needs me to stay for another fifteen hours. Apparently replying with "I don't actually work for you, and no consultant works that long" is just met with a "then I'll shoot you and dump your body in the lake." And here's a hint, don't laugh because he'll shoot you and chain you to a desk where you wake up doing calculus problems. Which is weird because the company specialized in using specialized analytical logarithms to maximize efficiency in distribution routes... No idea what they needed the calculus for. Plus, they don't even use desks... where the hell did that thing come from? Do they just keep one in storage for this exact situation?

Anyway, enough of my boring life stories.

Conversation on quill.

This is admittedly a possible explanation for the KK kill. It is NOT, however, the only possible explanation.

I like your thinking but I'm sad to see the idea that was in my head not included on your list. With my own semi-known feelings on gamma aside, shouldn't the fact that Gamma being scum hinges on certain scum power roles being present and that the possibility that he was killed for this reason exists imply that he should be shelved at least until a scum power role is caught?

I mean it's cool to say "The possibility that gamma is scum exists if certain other things exist", but it still seems like lynching him without some suggesting you're right is illogical. I realize you're up for lynching anyone of your four which is cool, I only say this because you mentioned you would be voting him if not for MOI and that seems like wasted focus to me.

Anyway, not all that important... just thought I would weigh in on past conversations that are probably over and don't need my input.

Your point about there being a potential scum doctor, bulletproof or alternate power preventing an Invicitus occuring makes no sense when it comes to your read on Quilford. A failed invictus vote and no invictus death would leads towards it being abundantly obvious that something prevented the invicidus kill going through which again throws attention and suspicion onto Quilford. There legitimately is no scum motivation for Quilford to shoot at KK at all as it would lead to a likely 1 for 1 trade which is something mafia would avoid at all costs.

See, you're looking at it in retrospect. Night one, scum couldn't have known that there was only going to be one kill, they also couldn't have known that invictus's would be so easy to tell apart from other kills. I literally went into night expecting 5 or 6 deaths. A missing invictus would be easy to cover up, and with so many possibilities like KK changed it, or a town doc stopped it, or even if a bodyguard died it could be argued that one protected Quill. furthermore, the age old "i'm bulletproof" wouldn't suggest anything. In fact, if gamma was bulletproof then the scum could have planned on that to make him look town. I.e. Scum kill KK, knowing quill won't die, dawn arrives and they argue that scum wouldn't have killed KK therefore quill is town. Instant scum='confo' town status. Definitely worth wasting a BP shot in my opinion. And this isn't even factoring in my own ideas on the matter.

I know lynching gamma is currently illogical, but in the event he does flip scum I could certainly see you as his partner here.

I confound you because I'm hard to read. I never really bleed pro-townness. Frankly, I care more about a potential Gut mislynch than a silavor one. CES is my little brother. I'm one of the players here who knows him well and that his playstyle is generally scummy, so I feel like I need to speak up. And I always feel kinda bad when he's mislynched.

Did you know he was Gut this whole time, or did you just find out?

Btw, you asked why I didn't refer to meta when I voted Magna. I don't really remember why, but I remember I had a reason for it? That's kinda a bad answer, but it's true. I was a little nervous about placing that vote generally. I was worried it would look scummy to hop on another wagon after SpyreX (I generally am not a bandwagonny player), but it was where my gut was telling me to go. It may have been because I was afraid to get into a detailed argument with Magna about his meta. My vote was really based on a gut impression rather than anything that's really easy to pinpoint and I think I was worried about getting drawn into a lengthy discussion about it.

No... I can't let you win me over with your charming and beguiling ways. You'll end up hurting me just like last time... For the record, I can understand this. But I'm sure you'll understand when I tell you this isn't exactly something that relieves my suspicions on you.

Oh fuck me... Hindu bodgy guarded quil... its so simple... I keep neglecting bodyguard stops invictus kills.

Fyi a scum doc wouldn't.

A scum doc wouldn't what? What do you know that I don't?

[Ban]

Note to self: Benmage/Duplicity interactions read VERY STRONGLY scumbuddy at this point.

Note to self, look into Ben more. Would you think this still holds true even if Gamma ends up town?

Bullshit. If Quilford is bulletproof and planning on trueclaiming that ability, he can just claim that when asked to claim and answer questions about why he's alive. Likewise, a stopped Invictus on a non-bulletproof Quilford could have been explained by a player protecting him (which, as a matter of fact, is what appears to have happened), with the only risk being when targets are claimed at massclaim.

In fact, if I were scum who knew that KK had stated an invictus on a scum who I knew would be protected, I'd happily kill KK so I could falseclear my buddy with the WIFOM logic "scum would never risk killing a player who they knew was targeting a townie, so buddy X is effectively confirmed town".

Wait, why does that logic sound suspiciously familiar? It's almost like a few players have been using that exact train of logic in the thread for a while...

Do you have an opening for an adoring fan? DGB keeps me pretty busy but I'm fairly certain I could spare a few moments for you if needed.

Tar a chain reaction kill meant invictus went through.... so there was no quil doc or quil bpv.

How do you know? Scum can't plan on a town Body Guard 'interfering'. Body Guard happens fist, so there is no reason there couldn't have also been some scum plan in the works.

Also I really hate being late to this party... *shakes head* I am not liking this recurring theme from Ben 'knowing' stuff.

Scumputer looks good per my initial reads aside from Dup appearing so low. still I sorta excluded him from the Fate Pentaverate so I suppose that kinda makes sense.

Blah blah blah, yell yell yell, old man stuff... que the 'nu-uh!' 'uh-ha' routine...

I don't actually trust Tar's spread sheet. Most of it seems spot on, but it put Gamma in Fate's group instead of in Dup's where he belongs. It's a small hiccup but ultimately leads me to doubt it's authenticity. Then again, I'm an idiot so what do I know right.

[Ban]

Invictus wagon now uses 2 votes. If the first target is dead then you get moved to the second one in the final votecount. It'll make it so we don't have to deal with all this bullshit tomorrow if one of Gut/MoI gets lynched, flips town, and the other would normally be tomorrow's lynch since nobody wants to invictus the people they're voting right now.

so this is only if you're invictusing gut/Moi... alright...

Invictus: Moi, Sub-Invictus: Dup

I agree with your "dead Moi means less distractions tomorrow" even if I don't actually think he's likely scum. Dup goes both ways between my scum group combos so he's the obvious backup.

Unvote:, Vote: Duplicity

I'd still hammer MOI over gut if it came to it but given how the game inevitably plays out I'm sure someone else will do it long before I need to bastardize my own beliefs.

[Ban]

Why post this? There's this acronym that I used to use for posts like this... had two capital I's and an A in it... forgot exactly what it was...

Holy shit, you're right! crap, how did I not think saying all that would alert the IIA! Man, this isn't like screwing over the CIA or the, and I'm laughing when I say this, FBI... Those are cupcake brigades compared to this branch. Man, glad you have my back Tar. I'll make sure to sleep with three eyes open. Not mine of course... >.> <.<

Let's skip the rambling part...

How can you be so logical here and yet screw up your logic so much up above?

Because unlike you I'm not blinded by my emotions involving Gamma. I don't mean anything by it, but it seems obvious to me. You already said you would lynch your suspects in any order, so why would you be against leaving gamma for later in order to account for the possibility he is town? If you are right, then lynching the others will still net scum. And with them outed, you could more easily convince the rest of the people who do in fact think he is town.

Just a question, how do you expect to lynch a person generally called town by over half the town without something to back it up? When you think about it, you may not like my logic, but it isn't bad.

If it means I actually get a shot at convincing other players to ignore the stupid Gut wagon and DGB's latest harebrained schemes, hell yes. (Though I'll still have to check for signs of you being scum - nothing personal, just gotta be sure after some of those quotes up there.)

If you think I'm related to Korlash and you don't have funny feelings about me then you would be even more insane them him. So no hard feelings you awesome person you. *claps, cheers, does the wave, etc...* This might be a bad time to mention it but I charge $17.50 an hour...

[Ban]

Flattery will get you everywhere DGB...

So it's Zach/Moi now... So the fact we can't even agree on which two people to fight over seems really abnormality to me. Could it be possible we have some unusually small amount of scum for a large game?

Naw, it's just too many stubborn fools in one match... /ignores the irony.

[Ban]

Looks like I missed all the fun... *shrugs* hard to be mad when I'm happy about the outcome.

Given the speed of Dup's lynch though I would speculate both MOI and Gut have opposite alignments from him. And I don't see why Illuminati would be tomorrow's lynch via scum Dup.

[Ban]

Sorry I've been awol here. I was hoping to get to look into Dup today but my connection has been going in and out. With Vitamin out of the picture I'm going to need a new sparing partner so I'm sure looking into Dup's finances will net me a dance partner.

As for massclaiming, I'm fine with it. I usually do good sifting through claims so I wouldn't say no to that. As much as I like Tar's list I'd have to say popcorn too though. A fixed massclaim never sits right with me no matter how 'good' it looks.

[Ban]

ohhh... so Tar called an audible. Ok I can see the logic behind it. I'm going to go ahead and take my day before death though. sadly it won't make a difference really but I like being spoiled when I'm able.

[Ban]

I know. the doctors assure me that there is nothing to worry about I'll be fine with a handful of pills and a magazine. Although I have to admit these suppositories taste like crap and don't seem to be doing anything for me. It's maddening...

[Ban]

Sure. It's blue, blue, blue, green, yellow, yellow, red... pause... blue, green, green, green, and this part is tricky, go halfway to red but then quickly hit blue.

Then you'll need the secret knock! it's tap, tap, tap... bang, bang... tap, bang, slam your face into your computer, then paw repeatedly at your neck in frustration, followed by three taps and a beep.

And of course, you'll need this map. Now follow the road for eight miles until you come to the Inn of Ill Omen. Get the last room on the left and go to sleep. Don't even think about vampires or assassin's or anything.

Remember, this is all about sharing...

[Ban]

Shit I knew I should have logged on this morning and read things.

I have only invictus. I'm reading things.

FREAKING LIAR!

Vote: Benmage

PLEASE ROLL OVER AND DIE SCUM!

Ben targeted Fate last night, he needs to die. DIE DIE DIE! End of story.

[Ban]

Ok now that I'm calmer I bet you guys want more from me.

I'm the town's other Tracker. Targets were Fate, Vitamin, MOI, and Ben in the order. nothing happened until last night.

Targeted Fate because with Spy dead and my first reaction to Sila's hammer being that it was probably town I didn't have anything to go on night 1 except personal feelings. hell, fate knows why I targeted him.

Vitamin's fairly obvious given my interactions with him. In retrospect I should have targeted MOI (or hell if I didn't let my Dup suspicions slide him) but I hit who I thought was the most likely scum.

After two nights of nothing I figured I would bend to everyone's whim and track MOI night three, fat lot of good that did. If I had had more time to get on and look into Dup I probably would have hit up Ben here but I only had a small bit of time to send it in so I went with what I saw.

Obviously after some insight into Dup and after yesterday's lynch why wouldn't I target Ben last night.

And boom, there it is. Kill this sucker so we don't have to listen to his lies anymore.

Oh right, I'm not a huge breadcrumb fan. Sadly all my hilarious Ray Winston Jokes and witty references to New Zealand's judicial system never seemed to fit in anywhere. I do remember something Fate did that popped the idea to crumb my track on him happening in day 2 but it was so nonchalant that even I don't remember what it was exactly. And yesterday when I talked about claiming I said it wouldn't do any good, due to no results. Obviously, neither of these mean shit but I know someone would ask so take it or leave it.

Anyway, I need to step out of the house for about the running time of the Captain America movie. It's just a coincidence. It's actually a very important business meeting... with... the queen of... Norway...s aide... Sven... Norwegian... >.> *cough* Very important stuff, you wouldn't understand. But I expect to see a dead ben when I return. dead and buried, like the... like the scummy, dog thing, or whatever he is! DEAD!

Invictus: Fate
Sub-invictus: Naut

Ben's flip will either prove fate scum or town so obviously my invictus changes based on that.

[Ban]

(On the one hand, I've had a firm scum read on Benmage for ages... on the other hand, a sudden guilty at LyLo? I know which way I'm leaning, but Ban needs to claim the rest of his results before I settle either way - I'll be nice and fill in the implicit tracker claim for him.)

Patience Tar... Patience... Have you ever known me not to claim fully in this situation? in all the time we've know each other... all the weeks... exactly...

Ben was my secret scumread and my invictus last night.....

But I'm not a Lynch all liars fan. No more votes

(This isn't a guilty btw, its a track result)

I'm touched Fate... But uh, given the circumstances I don't see the difference between this and a guilty. I like how you rushed to his aide though... that doesn't make me think you're buddies or anything... no, never...

[Ban]

Sorry Tar, you were always just too cool to track.

2) Claiming a result that *wasn't* on the dead player is a huge point in Ban's favor, since I've suspected that scum have a Scouter and/or Doctor for a while now.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had both. We have two BGs and two Trackers, so the inverse equivalent would be a doc and a scouter. I'm not well versed on balance though so this is just me rumminating out loud while I slowly sharpen my sickle...

"Ladi dadi die, Genocide.... Ladi dadi dud, an ocean of blood... Lets begin the killing time..."

Here's looking at you Ben...

Well I'm not gonna bus him NOW if you're just gonna be a dick.

I'd bus him if the roles were reversed... ;_; big meanie... Don't want to help me strangle your scumz partner.... I'm telling DGB...

HoS: Benmage - will upgrade to vote later barring good reasons not to.

How much later? Cause I have a shiny nickle here that says later is sooner then you think... Huh? Huh? *nudge nudge* know what I'm saying? Huh, do you? Cause I don't... Seriously, it's a big problem when I'm talking to my clients...

[Ban]

DAMNIT! NO! Ben is a liar, there is no excuse, he must die TODAY! NOW! RIGHT NOW! CAPS LOCK NOW!

No naut votes crap crapping up crap, crap.

Vote ben or sit there waiting to vote ben or think about voting ben after he goes "damn I'm caught" are your only choices.

[Ban]

I mean, a Benmage scum flip with a Scouter ability would clear me forever and forever, and with Tar alive I'd be confirmed town tomorrow.

Oh do I love being confirmed town alive....

Hey fate... hey... I would like seeing you be confirmed town alive too... we could even invictus naut together... toss him in an unmarked grave with the burning corpse of bentastic liar McLying pants.

Come on... Hey fate.... hey... come on....

[Ban]

Ban: Doc + Scouter? I think Bulletproofs (coughGammacough) + Scouter is more likely, but that's just me.

Yeah I figured bullet proof was the red herring but with the mechanic being multi-unpredictable kills I guess bulletproof does make more sense. But I can't track that so I like to think optimistically...

The ONLY reason I'm not voting Benmage's ass like a ton of bricks right now is because I can't quite rule out Ban being scum with a cunning gambit. But lack of other power claims is a huge point in his favor, as is weak breadcrumbing.

I thought you said you thought I was Korlash... Did you just accuse Korlash of a cunning gambit?... O.O You're overthinking things mate, maybe you should lie down. A nice bowl of voteing Ben would help calm your nerves.

Note: Assuming Benmage scum, invict Naut tonight if he flips Scouter and Fate/Gamma if he flips Doctor.

NO EXCEPTIONS. WE CANNOT AFFORD A MISSED INVICTUS TONIGHT.

Pre-post edit: Actually, if DGB doesn't come back it might be worth invicting Gamma even if Benmage flips Scouter.

Can I ask why we would invictus anyone other then fate if he flips doc? I mean, I can get the whole "gamma scum possibility" but a) uh, Scum doc means fate is scum 100% and b) Bulletproof Gamma means we lynch him.. not invictus him... right?

[Ban]

Fine... *kicks the dirt*

[Ban]

I bet you spend a lot of time thinking about MOI's reaction to you... rawl...

Uh, that's all I could muster.

[Ban]

*bangs gavel* I rest my case...

[Ban]

Well you couldn't wait your turn to claim, i have no fucking clue why vitamin is dead, if you disagree moi was a good target say so, and ben lied about his claim so he doesn't count.

Would it be less shady if my tracks were gamma, tar, dgb, and naut? Cause that's just too damn convenient.

As for all claimed, I was the last to claim. How can any of my targets be unclaimed?

[Ban]

Well the honest answer is I didn't see it that way, the more direct answer is I don't look at tracker and think... "damn, how many people can I confirm as town tonight?" I think "damn, let's find some fucking scum." tar wasn't scum to me and I don't give a shit about confirming myself as town.

As for being the last to claim, I'm a freaking tracker. Give me one good reason not to claim last? Wait wait, let me spell it out more... I'm a generally accepted as town freaking tracker that up until last night only had 'no results' as results. Not claiming last would have been idiotic, especially seeing as how in 'endgame' the scum like to 'fakeclaim' 'targets' that I could be like 'no you didn't' and my 'no results' could end up being 'results'... savy?

I would have managed a claim before you if I had bothered to read the thread this morning. sadly, getting up at 3 am to trudge to work doesn't make me feel like looking at mafia first. Sorry if I have my priorities out of line...

Lastly,

If you had TRACKED him, you would know who was confirmed NK target

Ignoring the fact he targeted me which would just mean I'd confirm myself, this isn't true. I wouldn't know if he was killed purposefully, or through his BG. By tracking him, if he had died I would have ultimately introduced 'bad' evidence that could make us all run around in a loop for a spell and end with us lynching based on false info and losing.

While him staying alive could have confirmed me and him, that wouldn't have caught us any scum. And him dying could have 'cleared' a scum and cost us the game. So no, tracking him would have been a stupid move. This is why I'm the tracker and you're the guy not tracking people... skillz man, I has them.

[Ban]

*shakes head* damnit Fate you actually had me convinced Ben was going to flip scout... I can't believe I fell for that. Just go back to bussing him so we can move this game along. Cut your freaking losses.

[Ban]

Well insulting me isn't going to get my vote back.

It won't not get it back... >.>

Plus the phrasing in your signature is pissing me off.

I put that there just to nag you... la la la. Aren't I a stinker!

me and Ben are the last two scum, I'm not bussing him you dumbfuck.

Hey, insulting me isn't going to something something.... I'm not as good at this as you are...

[Ban]

I didn't thank you because I knew you would simply unvote five minutes later.

I'm impressed though, you managed to hold out longer then I gave you credit for.

And I'm not a grammar freak, I'm a grammar connoisseur. I like to swish grammar around in a glass and then sniff it and talk about how quaint it is.

[Ban]

Scumteam is Ban and Tar...Tar keeps waiting for 1 more to jump on me.

I call him a liar, he calls me scum... he doesn't vote me... scum needs to die.

Now tell me one thing... which one of you flat foots scared DGB off? We need her words of wisdom to motive the rest of you to do the right thing.

[Ban]

Hey Ban, who'd you invictus each night. Probably won't be helpful but I can hope.

Fate, BS, MOI, and Ben.

Can we lynch Benmage now

Yes.

[Ban]

And I'm the Rules of Poker insert of game rage.

[Ban]

Cool... And you were worried DGB. >.> Knew it was going to work.

And yes, I'm very sad I never got to claim... I was going to have fun with all my made up powers... *sigh* Maybe next time...

[Ban]

Ban I love your Fate hate but I'm going to have to lynch you / Korlash on sight at least once for this game.

Naw, you'd fall victim to his overwhelming charm and superfluous wit. Although you're free to lynch me whenever I happen to be let loose out of that dingy old trunk I'm locked in when not in use... Yup, I should be able to get into another game in about... four years... We'll go ahead and just keep our schedules open just in case eh.

Also just read the Dead Eagle's classic thread and I have only one thing to say... Spy give me a hug! <3

[Ban]

That might be a while... Korlash is still operating under an "invitation only" clause... *sad face* Not enough hours in the day...

I guess thanks should be in order here for that too. Thanks a bunch KK! I really didn't want to kill you off but they made me... >.> <.< And they also made me desecrate your corpse and sit on your dog and make a smoothie without offering you one... Meanies...