Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Zachrulez]

I was asleep and missed the fate wagon. I, no joking, would have hammered it for giggles if it got that big before he posted.

It would have felt delicious <3.

I taught a parakeet to talk.
It told me Spyspy was scum.
WHY SPY
WHY?
Vote: Spy

Go get a refund your bird is malfunctioning. That model had a recall.

Always gotta vote with my gut or something

Unvote, Vote: Gut

What is this? It's your first post of the game. You don't unvote with your first post of the game.

Vote: Spyrex

[Zachrulez]

Well I don't actually disagree with your hydra position. I've played against enough scum hydras that pull that trick to have the same impulse.

[Zachrulez]

Vote: silavor

[Zachrulez]

Because scumvor is so stupid he would go out of his way to draw attention to himself by hammering.

Right. Ok then. You keep thinking that.

WIFOM

Why did you hammer?

[Zachrulez]

Are we really letting the scum know when they can get two townies for the price of one with the NK, while avoiding being invictus'ed themselves?

That's basically what I see reading this and I agree that it's a bad idea.

[Zachrulez]

Hmmm... actually if the invictus choice targets scum, they'd have an interesting problem with how to deal with that.

[Zachrulez]

If it's prevalent enough... basically a double day.

Sold

Invictus: Baby Spice

[Zachrulez]

You're wrong.

KEKEKE.

[Zachrulez]

Worry about what exactly?

[Zachrulez]

I don't have to worry about any of that because I'm not scum.

Not that I'd ever expect to convince you otherwise, because that's like running head first into a brick wall.

[Zachrulez]

I don't think we're going to get a good Baby Spice read so long as she only has one short post on record.

[Zachrulez]

Be more vague please.

[Zachrulez]

@Zach: being obtuse back at the stubborn doesn't mean you win. Everyone loses.

-inHim

I was hoping to get him to actually qualify his statement with well... anything with that remark.

@Duplicity: If/when Baby Spice posts more, it's possible my position on her will change, for these 5 minutes though, she's doing a lot of nothing.

[Zachrulez]

Be more vague please.

Some form of sensory input is telling me something about your alignment, weakly.

Weakly?

You two share a QT!

Maybe half right. I twitched when I isoed him.

[Zachrulez]

You're concise when you're actually making points.

[Zachrulez]

Screw it

Unvote: Vote: Gut

[Zachrulez]

So Baby Spice is scum.

Unvote: Vote: Baby Spice

Invictus: Gut

Oh Magna, are you trying to say that Fate would play smarter as scum? I'm not really getting your reasoning for calling him town except that you did it in a way that dismisses him out of hand. I'm not liking that.

[Zachrulez]

Yes, Baby's post feels rather forced but I'm not liking the MoI wagon, at least not until I see more proof of his meta which is the main case against him from what I see.

Talked with Regfan for all of 5 minutes before he had to go to another party, he only had time to skim the thread and didn't have time to update his reads though. I still have his old ones from around page 10 if anyone wants to see them.

I like my invictus/vote where it is for now.

Well it's nice to know you like where it is...

Oh dear indeed. May I suggest the great combo deal of lynching sil and invictusing one of Baby/Zach/Gut?

And on second thought, my invictus is better used on someone who needs to be pressured more. Spice has enough pressure as it is.

Uninvictus, Invictus: Zachrulez

-Shift

Invictus Count
Baby Spice (5): Fate, danceHello, Zachrulez, Benmage, silavor
Zachrulez (1): Duplicity
Gut (2): VitaminR, DGB
Silavor (4): Gut, Ban, Quilford, Nautilus
DrippingGoofBall (1): Baby Spice

With 16 alive it takes 9 To hammer an INVICTUS

Well, at least on the Invictus he chose an OK wagon.

HEY WAIT A MINUTE. You come on me for pressure? Really? Maybe you're just trying to fufill what you said earlier here.

Invictus: Baby Spice

My invictus is likely to change again before the day is up, but my vote is not.

Wouldn't want to do something crazy like keep your invictus vote on scum now would you? Or explain why Gut was apparently a bad vote.

[Zachrulez]

Baby Spice didn't post at all last night.

But I'm sure that's because I'm making a case based on time zones.

Lynch her with fire please.

[Zachrulez]

You are now.

Unvote: Vote Magna

Invictus: BabySpice

[Zachrulez]

Unvote

Much as I wish it, I don't see a Fate wagon happening.

Much as I hate to agree with him, Benmage is right.

Vote Silavor

Still think MoI is town though.

Zach, near as i can tell, your only reason to vote me is that I posted once in the rush lol lol lynch day. So yeah, probably is.

That and the piss poor meta cases you put out against DGB and Fate.

[Zachrulez]

I keep forgetting to mention this but.

V/LA from July 10th to the 17th. I will have some access, but I will be on vacation in another state and mafia won't be a priority.

[Zachrulez]

That appears to be everyone. I'll have the game thread up sometime today.

If you are using a hydra, I will need you to confirm with that account. Otherwise, select one head to post while it gets activated.

Clearly nothing was stopping you from posting while your hydra was waiting to be activated.

[Zachrulez]

Regardless, his hydra activation excuse is total crap.

[Zachrulez]

Unvote: Vote: Gut

That was as good as a scum claim to me.

[Zachrulez]

Silavor seems to have flaked for what it's worth. (I'm in another ongoing game with him and he hasn't posted anywhere since posting here on Wednesday.)

So I'm not sure I buy strategic lurking as an argument. Everything else raised on him is valid though.

[Zachrulez]

His response to Magna amounted to challenging his town read by saying he buses as scum. I can't think of any reason why a post like that would come from town.

[Zachrulez]

V/LA and don't have a lot of time.

Original vote on Magna was annoyance, but I'm not getting the feel I got in Star's aligned when he was going for the murderer win con and was blatantly scummy. So out of the major wagons, I'd prefer a Silavor lynch.

Unvote: Vote: Silavor

Would happily switch to Baby Spice or Gut if there's interest in lynching them today. (Which I haven't seen to this point.)

[Zachrulez]

Vote: Gut

[Zachrulez]

I don't even know why Gamma thinks I'm scum, and it looks like he's not going to explain it.

[Zachrulez]

Fate seriously.
Calm the hell down or I'm replacing out. You're being an absolute shithead and you being right about sila doesn't mean that you should or are going to lead the town from here are out.

Zach I'll explain if you ask nicely.

Well it's not me you really need to explain it to, but I do want one.

[Zachrulez]

@Benmage Iso 26 explains it.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, but see, I'd rather he die now.

[Zachrulez]

I don't think either Fate or MOI are scum btw.

[Zachrulez]

Where's the case on Vitamin again?

Can we start posting votes with Reason.

ZACH- explain gut. Just for the record.

Pretty much in my ISO, he knows what it is.

Why no call out on Gamma's vote?

There really isn't anything to call out. He's not really giving anything with his vote.

He's felt off all game and I haven't been able to put my finger on why that is.

[Zachrulez]

^ Look at that agree post. There's scum right there.

Going to tackle Gamma's points next.

[Zachrulez]

Zach is a very strong scum read- Why he's stronger than the other scum reads is mostly gut but I don't think his first few posts regarding Spy were genuine- unvoting with your first post of the game is a reaaally silly reason for suspecting someone and clarifying that "oh I don't think you're scum for this reason just that one" is something I do as scum all the time, and much more relevant than that is his "annoyance" vote on MoI instead of thinking that MoI was scum, as well as his leaving it on there for a while after MoI's pseudo-claim despite that, staying on the Gut wagon for a bit when it was very clear he wasn't going to be lynched yesterday, and eventual vote on silavor with the note that he'd also lynch 2 other people even though it was very clear they weren't getting lynched, but not making a big deal out of why he thought either of Gut/Baby was scum and why other people should vote them, just stating that he thought Gut's earlier posts were basically a scum-claim.

I've actually used that I don't think you're scum for that reason just this one as scum before, and I've busted another scum on that reasoning. Both situations happend much deeper into each game though, this was a very very early game point. I thought the action was interesting enough to go after that early on, but I wasn't interested in actually lynching Spyrex over it at that point. (I actually wasn't even online when that lynch actually happened.)

I did generally find refusal to claim scummy, and annoyance made voting even easier, then gut claimed scum, so yeah. Aside from that, MOI really hasn't done anything to really make me think he's scum, and on further reflection I didn't find that actual action scummy either. So sue me, my read changed.

As for staying on the gut wagon. You're really going to accuse me of any of that, while I'm V/LA? Really? I only moved my vote when I did because that was literally the only window I had for access and I did have to pick a major wagon precisely for what you're attacking me for, being on a wagon that wasn't going anywhere to deadline.

On that subject, if you don't think the point I made on Gut is worth lynching him for, you're either scum or not paying attention... either way...

And ooooooooooooooooh, I didn't make cases, that's uber strong scum read? Guess what Gamma, I don't make cases, and this comes down to why I think you're generally full of shit. I've spent plenty of time in my earlier days playing this

making cases

and pretty much the same thing comes out of it as when you just take a position that you find someone scummy for a single strong point. If people aren't interested, they aren't going to read it, and so either way, meh.

But you're really going to tell me that I'm scummy because I didn't push harder even though I would have been willing to lynch Baby and Gut if wagons were there? Really? I suppose you really didn't want to give me a chance to do that anyway because not even right after I did you popped your vote right on the wagon and pushed Fate to hammer it, this with enough time to inquire to me as to why I WANTED those lynches, but wait. You chose not to do that.

Yeah, so you could make this big

damning looking case

on me today with your super duper scum read. Yeah right.

Gut/VitaminR/Gamma

Take that to the bank.

Oh my, I wrote a wall without even realizing it.

[Zachrulez]

Oh and

Invictus: Gamma

[Zachrulez]

Oh and I think Zach's general reactions to votes on him have been more similar to worried scum than town and trying to paint those votes as bad but that isn't a very large reason for the read compared to his actions around the MoI/sila wagons, just gut that adds upon what I already think.

I'm not going to waste my time reacting to votes that don't have a given reason, unless someone's already said why they suspected me before a vote, which is something that's been absent before you actually explained yours.

On that matter just because there's a vote on me doesn't mean it's bad.

I obviously know it's wrong, but there is the possibility of geniuwinity from the voter. I do read for that.

[Zachrulez]

I'm done for the night with that.

Still V/LA and we're going to see Leno tomorrow, so I don't forsee having any access then.

[Zachrulez]

I did forget you were V/LA. AND I WILL SUE YOU. FOR YOUR LIFE.
And I don't remember a single vote on you that you DIDN'T react to. Please point to one so I can look silly and further your cause of lynching me.

In related news, Vote me you godamn scum pansies. Don't rely on some other guy to invict me, do it yourself.

You're already on my invictus list.

I'm much more sure of Gut, but I do love that little trick you did of how I didn't explain why I wanted my lynched when you worked so hard to end the day without inquiring. That was BEAUTIFUL man.

[Zachrulez]

I'm done for the night with that.

Still V/LA and we're going to see Leno tomorrow, so I don't forsee having any access then.

For real this time.

[Zachrulez]

More words than I feel like quoting

<3.

Time to wait for Zaaaaach.

I'm not going to be back in Minnesota until Sunday, so you'll be waiting until at least then and for me to catch up on my reading as well.

[Zachrulez]

Anyway, now that Fate-Gamma talky time is over.

ZACH

(that was to get your attention so you won't miss it from me+Fate everywhere)
Let's go into some stuff. First of all- you said that your big scumteam people are:

Gut/VitaminR/Gamma

First- based on your experience do you think the most likely explanation for Vitamin's agreeing with me here-

I like the above from Gamma. Particularly the Ban, Benmage, Duplicity, and Nautilius pieces are similar to my own thinking.

is that we're both scum together or do you think this game is unique and it normally doesn't happen but we're scum anyway? (or some other 3rd option I'm not thinking of)

See, you're trying to beat off my logic with linking logic. I find scummy actions from you, I find scummy actions from him. Links need not apply. (They are the road to ruin.) His presence after looking at his iso is low enough to be scum.

Second- I'll understand if you don't believe me but I didn't push for sila to die faster so I could make a big case on you today, I pushed on him so we could get on with the game- MoI and sila were both decent lynches and it was pretty clear that nobody besides the two of them were going to die that day, and pretty much everyone that wasn't voting MoI had a chance to hammer him in the 20 something hours that he was at L-1. Once dance unvoted I didn't think MoI would get lynched at all that day and was tired of nobody on the MoI wagon being willing to push for his lynch or even talk about other lynches except Fate.
Do you think that any big realizations or something would have occurred that can't happen now if the game had gone on for another 12 hours or so? The only thing I can think of is that Baby Spice might have looked a little townier and not have been the invictus'd if dance had agreed with Baby Spice to the point that he chose to ignore the invictus wagon, and some people are still saying today that she might be up for lynch if she wasn't dead.

Point stands that you failed to inquire me about my suspicions and used my lack of elaboration against me. You can't seriously push that when you could have done something about it the day before, it points to a mentality of just wanting to lynch someone as opposed to actually being interested in my motivations, that's the point I am making.

As it is, my vote only evened the wagons yeah? Anything can happen as deadline approaches. (Which is why I tend to hold out with my vote as long as possible, but my V/LA made that a little harder this time around.)

Third- This is mostly because having 3 whole points looks cooler than just two but did you ever have a read on Quilford?

It was in flux. I don't remember anything that gave me an overly strong read either way. Off memory he voted me without explanation which left me scratching my head, but couldn't get anything solid because I don't remember any explanation or thought process to it, the lack of any would lean me to a read of scum.

Anything else you need from me?

I still want Gut to hang. (Notice the correlation to a realistic chance of lynch to him suddenly caring.) I'd take lynches of Gamma, Vitamin R, or Naut at this point as well. Won't join a Magna wagon unless it's the only possible lynch at deadline.

[Zachrulez]

Zach you made a comment saying that Vitamin was scum with an arrow pointing to his post that agreed with mine. That KIND of indicated to me that you thought he was scummy because of that post and the link to me, not because he's individually scummy.

As for the second part Fate says I'm a hypocrite so I can clearly do whatever I want. Yeah you didn't post a bunch of reasonings for people and you were V/LA. But I still think that your vote-hop to Magna and then off and then onto Gut without actually going over why Magna is scummy is a lot more likely to come from scum than town. To me it reads like you hopping on Magna for doing something that you think is legitimately scummy and will get him lynched and then hopping off when you don't have anything else to actually support the vote, instead of getting on and off because of a change in your read on him.

Anything else you need from me?

Since Illuminati never got back to me I'll use that question again and ask for a few odd reads or reasonings for things.

Fair enough.

So you think my actions indicate a link of myself and Magna? (Mostly for the purpose of understanding the basis of your read.)

[Zachrulez]

DGB's absolute Town for this last exercise. I specifically gave her every wagon and she properly excluded the Fate RVS and the doubled Silavor / MoI wagons.

Interesting that Zach and Fate both show up as the top outputs and both are Town reads for me. I'm guessing that my 'Hiding in Town reads' scum is one of those two ...

People give me too much credit as scum, but to help you out a little bit I know for a fact it's not me, and I highly doubt Fate is scum. I've had a town on town feel from the fighting both of you have been doing, but if one of you HAD to be scum, I'd put my money on you more than I would for Fate. But that's IF... don't think you guys are scum.

[Zachrulez]

Oh and invictus votes.

Invictus: Naut and Vitamin R

Gamma moves down the suspicion list a bit. Still feel uneasy about him, but I can understand some of his issues with me at least.

[Zachrulez]

So you think my actions indicate a link of myself and Magna? (Mostly for the purpose of understanding the basis of your read.)

It's more that I think you didn't have a real suspicion of Magna when you hopped on his wagon even though you knew it could definitely lead to his lynch, it's a little more likely to be you-scum+magna-town than both of you being scum but I can see you voting him-scum like that too if you thought he would get quicknoosed for it and have the ends justify the means.

You should still give me those odd reads and reasonings by the way.

I think I've given all the ones that matter.

[Zachrulez]

Well gee, you pressure me into posting, and now you want me to actually think on top of that on my vacation?

What is this?!

(When I get my head into this game more fully after my V/LA is over I might be able to give you some reasoning beyond gut. Assuming that I live that long of course.)

[Zachrulez]

Oh and your reasoning on my position on Magna being scummy I thought you were implying a link given that it's pretty clear I've had other opportunities to push a Magna lynch through and have passed on it.

[Zachrulez]

And hell, since I'm feeling generous:

We're mass invictusing since MoI is being defending by scum as either a scummy townie or scum. If magna is scum being defended by scum this hard, there's a pretty good chance he's scum doc, and he won't be able to protect himself from the rage of dead town.

Wut.

Meanwhile, Zach gets lynched for some under the radar play with pretty much no risky or controversial voting; nothing spurred on from any good insight, nothing at all. He's been attacking low fruit, and went after the moi counterwagon twice with bad reasoning. He's also claimed vanilla/scum already, so this scum can't claim power in an attempt to save himself. Scum will also be forced to bus in this situation since it's far too risky to expend all resources defending multiple members of the scumteam; that would make connections far too obvious.

I think you just described your own play.

Oh, and I shant be claiming anything at all, ever.

If we are all wrong and moi is town, then he will be protected by the real scum doc and will live to fight another day. In this situation, we are screwed, but less screwed than we would be otherwise.

My god you are scum.

[Zachrulez]

Anyone that knows my scum game knows I would have shut down completely as scum by now.

Which will make the scumbags who put horrible votes on me even more obv when I flip.

[Zachrulez]

Oh, and I shant be claiming anything at all, ever.

Oh this I don't get. Why did you vote me solely for not claiming when I was at L-2?

I have a Town read on your slot but I trust enough in DGB's Computer output after seeing this to say the following -

Claim in your next post or I will hammer you.

====[]

It's gonna happen anyway, I won't begrudge you doing it.

[Zachrulez]

Oh whatever it doesn't matter, I don't have anything to claim that I haven't already.

(Which is my invictus ability.)

[Zachrulez]

If you're going to do this, at least invictus obvscum gut for me.

[Zachrulez]

I try to only listen to scum when they're trying to bus.
Zach are you trying to bus?

Will you grant me my wish when I flip town? (I know you don't think I'm going to, but you'll have plenty of time to change your invictus target after I actually do. )

[Zachrulez]

Oh, BTW Benmage is scum and completely under everyone's radar.

I've been sitting on that one long enough, but since I'm about to die... yeah.

(He's one of the few people NOT screaming that I'm scum right now and it's so unlike him.)

[Zachrulez]

Goofball is town, even as misguided as her case on me is.

Fate's town.

Magna's probably town.

Talihandur is town.

Scum are in here: Benmage, Gut, Naut, Vitamin R, Gammagooey.

Happy hunting.

[Zachrulez]

I will be the most surprised dude if you flip town. If you are made of anti-miracles and do flip town?
MAYBE.
Probably not. MoI really does need to die.

If you are town then the hell was up with the not claiming spiel and MoI and seriously. Serrrriously.

It was more about Moi's I'm not even at lynch -1 comment. I didn't really like the tone of that. (At the time.)

I'm generally anti-claim as vanilla... I don't really see a point if I'm just going to get lynched anyway, you know?

[Zachrulez]

Anybody else up for a Gamma lynch? Or a Naut lynch? Or a Duplicity lynch?

Of those, I'd be most willing to do a Naut lynch. Like Gut, I can't really figure out why he doesn't have a wagon already.

[Zachrulez]

Oh and the deadline is rolling up pretty quick here, so you guys need to get on lynching me quick here or mass vote switching to someone else.

[Zachrulez]

You need to fuckin vote MoI, Zach.

Let me ask you, is he more likely town than you?

Good point.

Also nothing else seems to have any momentum, so I might as well try to put some behind a wagon.

Unvote: Vote: MoI

Invictus: Gut and Naut

[Zachrulez]

If he gets more votes I will move.

I'm pretty convinced the day is going to end with me dead though... just the kind of game it's been.

[Zachrulez]

Actually it's 2 gut, 3 magna?

Ok, I can make gut the leading counter wagon.

Unvote: Vote: Gut

And switch back to MoI if he gets more votes.

[Zachrulez]

By my count we have something like an hour left to deadline. Who's on right now that can make a lynch happen?

[Zachrulez]

Oh, it counts down... that's... weird.

I actually counted down from where it was posted which is how I came up with what I got.

We're still cutting it a little bit close though.

[Zachrulez]

Vote: Gut

I can't accept that hypo town gut would still be alive in context of what happened yesterday.

Invictus: Benmage and Illuminati

Already claimed, but support massclaim.

[Zachrulez]

Did you fall asleep or something? I've already claimed.

[Zachrulez]

Vote: Gut

I can't accept that hypo town gut would still be alive in context of what happened yesterday.

Invictus: Benmage and Illuminati

Already claimed, but support massclaim.

Gut??
Scum???
Wut is this.

And yet you quoted this post just yesterday. Did you even read it?

Gut should go next.

[Zachrulez]

Would be fine with Benmage going next as well.

[Zachrulez]

Her invictus target claims are ridiculous.

[Zachrulez]

Hey, hey man, I have other games besides this one man.

Since Illuminati never got back to me I'll use that question again and ask for a few odd reads or reasonings for things.

Hmmm, what did you want me to do? Sorry, I must have missed it. Also, to the Zachrulez question:

And a Zachrulez wagon would not be out of the question either.

Unvote
Vote: Zachrulez

Also,

Invictus 1: MoI

Invictus 2(if MoI is lynched): Duplicity

Hey look at that, Amrun is admitting to having Fate targeted with Invictus while Illuminat is advocating different invictus targets.

Let's not miss the fact that Duplicity flipped with the Invictus ability and that Dancehello and Fate seem like pretty good town targets to hit with the ability.

[Zachrulez]

Are we waiting on this massclaim thing, or can I deliver sweet death to Amrun now?

[Zachrulez]

Sad I didn't have time for this, looked fun!

You guys can't read MOI it seems (I thought you were town MOI!)

Well I got that one right...

Bad scum reads, pretty good town reads outside of DGB.

[Zachrulez]

Another Vi game ending in night's really left a bitter taste in my mouth... but town didn't deserve to win anyway. Still...