DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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I'm in favor of total war.
The standard non-total war route has lynchings and debates and flips and what have you. It will be a standard game of mafia until about day three. Same old mafia strategy.
Going straight to total war gives a ton of players the abilitiy to go with nukes. Not only is this a ton of fun, but it also means that potential hotheads have the ability to annihilate any given player at any time. This means town could die, yes, but it also means that any lurking/apathetic scum expecting to play a normal game will get destroyed.
The scum will be forced to play and be active and try and make false cases, and in such an enviroment, scum are a lot easier to find.
Essentially, total war cuts out the lurk mode for scum.
It is the optimally play.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 3258
- Joined: April 7, 2011
- Location: San Francisco
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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I'm still interested in what people have to say on the subject. Just because you're hot to trot on the subject doesn't mean I agree with you or that others will too.
There are always more lurkers as a percentage of the scum team then the town team. (You don't believe this?)
Lurkers should be targeted with nukes.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Just confirming, scum who generally did not much of anything, lurked in plain site and won the game. Yes, same one. (battle of the one game sample sizes going on here)
"but whether a lurker is more likely to be scum than a non-lurker."
Not going too deep into this, but if three players are lurking, and one is scum, It is probably beneficial to nuke them all. At worst, two town die and the remaing scum get active as all hell. I would take that deal. And that's only dealing with lurking. (fluff posts etc.)
The threat of nukes is like the threat of hammer L-1. People suddenly get very in-depth, detailed and give quite good reads at that point. It is the invisible hand (shout out: Smith)
I mean, we're going to get there despite your best efforts. If you had the choice, I take it you would want to stay in Defcon 2 forever?-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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"Magister, your stance is completely contradictory. You're stating that it's safest to go total war to give nukes to hothead players ie. Players that will be rash in regards to who they shoot, then you're stating you want lurkers nuked."
Not quite what I am saying. (This isn't worth belaboring since it isn't going to happen) I was saying it is optimal play for town to go straight into defcon one. It certainly isn't safer, but that is what makes it better for town. Because scum will know some players have nukes, they will be less likely to lurk otherwise the will GET nuked by said players.
Hot-heads aren't nessesarily rash (where did you come up with that), they are impulsive. I for example, would nuke a scummy looking lurker on sight. Ergo, scum will not lurk, will be forced into activity, and will probably be caught out since an active scum role is a lot harder to pull off then not.
By the way, I didn't like how you tried to twist my words there to imply I was saying something I was not.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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I'm actually highly interested about the answer to my previous questions from a players perspective.
Lady, are you proposing specfic members of the game go and pick the 'roles scum want dearly' (Could you clarify what these are in your own opinion) Or are you proposing that 'town' players in general should go for the scum roles. I could see the first mode working, but the second one is definently hit and miss.
Also, am I right in my assumption that there is only one of these roles going to be in the game total? Only one battleship, fighter, etc?-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: San Francisco
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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All these town----->scum lists floating around now need to dissipate. I don't need a laundry list of every player in the game (who everyone also happens to be reading), what people need is pointed attacks on those doing scummy things.
Socio: "This just in: Toasty is now high ranking scums."
Can you back this up? Toasty seems to be one of those perennial players scum like to latch onto in efforts to mislynch.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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This needs clarifaction:
Alamaster, does the Terrorist get to first pick a troop deployment without interference?
(Also, Screaming Death, can you stop using caps so much.)
(The terrorist receives a free additional selection of their choice in addition to participating in the draft. Their selection is not removed from the draft pool. --AGM)Last edited by AlmasterGM on Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Reg, It is a common occurence (in my experience) for scum to simply declare a player "town" for no apparent reason because it is an easy read to make (they know they aren't wrong) and it makes the town player less likely to want to lynch them (because the other player has correctly 'figured' out theri alignment) and it looks as if the scum is doing something.
The game of mafia is pretty simple, all the town members are trying to figure out eachothers alignment and who doesn't belong, and then form up together with mutual town reads to beat the scum. A pro-town voting block is very hard to beat. (which is why scum either want to be in it or prevent it from happening)
A read of XXXX is town because of YYY and this means ZZZ is definently a town mindset. It represent thoughtfulness (figuring stuff out etc)
A read of XXXX is town period is a scum mindset.
A read of YYYY is town because of crappy reasons that don't maker a player town is a scum mindset.
(This is what happened with Swift)
So, no, mentioning reads and explaining them is basically the essence of mafia, and is not a scum tell in the slightest. Its how you back it up those reads that is important.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: San Francisco
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 3258
- Joined: April 7, 2011
- Location: San Francisco
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 3258
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 3258
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- Location: San Francisco
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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(Vi and SpyreX, what does this acronym mean: TMI?)
I'm now completely behind this RedCoyote wagon (if that is any more possible after his god awful reasoning in DefCon4) Most of what has been said about his terrible idea of creating a counterwagon to someone he thinks is 'scum' for no apparent reason, and then backtracking, I agree with. It's just a terrible order of logic.
Red also said this lynches for today should be "AV, dana, ML, Pooky, or SDC today. In that order." Now, not only do I have town reads on the last two (three :p), but I'm not particularly militant to get on the wagon of the other two. This list of lynches is plain bad, and when someone has four or more reads I dont agree with, I consider them a strong case for scum.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Swift Justice still needs death. The wagon start on a player with no votes whilst avoiding the two larger (three at the post) wagons is definently not a town tell.
As for Hez, he probably needs to launch a nuke at another scummy player and then eat one himself. He suddenly comes alive while under some sembalance of pressure, changes his playstyle a bit for unknown benefits, and bad reads don't give me town feelings at all.
As for AV, I haven't seen a case on him that I've particularly liked, and as for his wagon, there is only one, maybe two... (Mina and SDC/Magua) people I consider town on it at this time. I think he is more town than not.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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(Thanks Gamma)
From Magna of Illusion:"I don't dispute that Socio is playing in a scummy manner. He goes out of his way to do that. The problem is going to be getting a viable wagon going. Because by my assessment we have a sizeable number of players in this game who will take the stance of "Nah, I'm not going to vote Sociopath because I like playing with him. Even if he is scum".
I think barking up that tree is not worth the effort. He best turned into a glowing, radioactive crater the minute we hit DEFCON1."
This is bad reasoning. If you think someone is playing in a scummy manner (as Socio is in fact doing), you don't pass it up or fail to call them out on it. You try and push the wagon. The fact that you also consider him acting in a scummy manner, but not worth lynching, but nukeable, is not a stance I understand or expect to come from a town point of view.
If Socio is your number one scum read, it makes no sense to try and let him go without pushing on him, as town wants all scum players dead, not down the track. This post just feels... off. Coming from a scum sided rather than town sided ideology. (if thats the correct word there)-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Gamma, what are you expecting Hez to say that would change your mind about anything? (I wouldn't mind a hammer right now.)
SpyreX, is there a reason you have asked several people to give reads on me even though you consider me town? Maybe you've done this for other people as well, but It's happened 2-3 times already for me.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Regfan is for the nukes!
Cases are bogus in general, but I can highlight specific points if you want.
The reasons I am continuing voting him from yesterday are that his comment about the RedCoyote wagon struck me as wrong and scum sided, when his wagon had the makings of taking off AV got lynched, and I'm not getting much of a pro-town feeling from his posts.
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Why do you think the doc (battleship) would protect gorilla Magua?-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Swift, you can't pusedo attack me for voting gorilla and then subtly imply that you think gorilla may in fact be scum. This weird chain of logic needs explaining.
Fate, get back in your hydra.
Hez, I didn't answer your question yesterday because I was V/LA during that time period. You're still in the midrange to scum end of a vast possible spectrum of possible reads, and at this point in the game, all those people should be nuked. So, yes.
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Why are there no nukes flying right now despite many promises. (mine included, but there is a reason for that)
Lets just cut the crap and nuke down to the following three players: Myself, Mina, and Toastytoast. That should be a win for town.
Does anyone:
a.not have a town read on these players and
b.oppose this plan.
Lets go.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Too, who would you choose as three "chosen survivors"? You must have a town read on three people right?
How is gorilla a 'easy mislynch target'? I think I was the first vote on him yesterday, so it is not opportunistic at all. I think his whole body of work indicate scum, not just after some arbitary time you choose.
And here's a hint: I dont have a nuke.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Someone should actually just nuke dana now. I am not sold on his protowniness this game, and his nuke is terrible
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Hez, there is no way that I am not going to put the one confirmed town I am 100 percent sure about about, myself, on a short list of three people to survive all of these nukes flying about.
I'm now of the opinion the following people should get nuked:
Screaming Death Clan
Swift Justice
Magna
dana
(debating Hez here too)
SDC Doesn't get a town read at all from me. As to the night kill, I was under the impression that katsuki and the SDC had played so many games together that they could read eachother very easily, so Its more likely if katsuki died that SDC is scum.
If all these people die, that leaves:
gorilla
MagisterLudi
Hez
(Hopefully hinduragi as dana cancels)
inhim
IS
LL
Magua
Mina
Pooky
Regfan
toasty
toog
I'd be very comfortable lynching and nuking from there.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Unless you can back that up with multiple points of evidence, I am going to say that is a weak opinion which I don't know where you got from.
If you can convince me I'm wrong, I'll change my mind, but I find that unlikely.
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Yeah, I don't suspose you like the short list considering you are on it. It still stands.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Bring personal meta into a game is irrelevant, I evaluate how someone plays and determine if they are scum or town based on that. I think he is much more likely than not to be scum.
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I want the scummiest players eliminated first, yes. That is clear and logical and I don't see how that is a problem with you. however, if the game isn't over by that point, then there are thirteen more players still living, with scum among them. The obvious recourse is to keep eliminating the scummiest players.
All of this is probably going to happen today, as we are only using nukes and nukes don't end the day. So yes, it is probable once all the nukes hit and the short list is nuked as well that someone on the 'long' list may die.
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Yeah, I think pooky is town, and I don't think any scum nuked other scum as it is just as easy to nuke town and get away with it.
Regfan coming alive to post content when nukes like imminent is bad.
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Thursday should shed come light on the rest of this game, but I think we know how the flips are going to go (Gamma and Wei scum). I still reccomend nuking SDC or Hez.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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When that communication we deciphered, Hez looks very likely like scum.
The fact he was pushing really hard on you in 1099 doesn't read like a bus, he definently wanted to get a lynch off. The fact that he voted you,
Also, I'm tacking on a vote. See my iso #45 / post #1099 for why.
Vote: Swift Justice
Confirms this.
This backhanded attempt to cast mud makes him look even more anti-town, and you guys scum.
Pretty sure I've read Swift Justice's first post on Page 62 right. It reads nearly word for word for one of his earlier posts. He is merely tryign to look useful and is scum that needs to die.
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Actually, Gamma voted Regfan earlier today. I'm uncomfortable with a Regfan nuke at this point. Maybe after a few others-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Unvote: Hezlucky
Vote: RegFAN
FOS: Mina
FOS: Danakillsu
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gamma wrote:Vote:IS
(he should actually be nuked but whatev's)
Stuff
Looked through ooba's iso and gorilla might have been the n1 result- he didn't comment on much so it could just be agreeing with magua about letting scum kill him but given that plus the earlier stuff I've said about him likely being town I don't want him deads.
Vi is a lot shadier than in other games with it but I still think that IS is more likely to be scum
Still think Magua is town
Ludi has looked town plus has Spy's Seal of Townitude
dana is also still town, the read of hez reads as very legitimate
Hindu should absolutely die and Socio can go with him
aaand I'm fairly sure that one of LLD & JUSTICE is scum given both of their early play being off- Between the two I'd nuke LLD first as justice's stating that he's expecting to die looked town and retaliating towards LLD like that would be super ballsy as scum.
Additional reads or clarifications available for the Low Low price of a cookie and asking nicely.
Hindu, LLD, gorilla all seem to be town by this. I would expect him to comment on two buddies minimum here, we have Vi scum, and that leaves dana in the weak buddy clearing towntell category. Dana as scum
Gamma wrote:Magister Ludi wrote:
Lets just cut the crap and nuke down to the following three players: Myself, Mina, and Toastytoast. That should be a win for town.
If this can actually happen AND you guys promise to lynch toasty if the game isn't over I am totally down for it. I think you guys would have to wait until tommorrow though given the number of non-nuke abilities in the game.
Why does Gamma say this as scum unless one of these three players is scum (otherwise he loses the game). The fact that he suggest lynching toasty makes no sense as a buddy, and I know i'm not scum, so it has to be Mina here.
-And it's a better nuke but Regfan isn't a bad lynch.
Unvote, Vote:Regfan
hez, dana is still town.
Yeah, I can see the buddies.
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Vi wrote:FOR THE BLOOD GOD, throw Regfan in there too for lying straight up in thread.Not seeing this but scum for a different reason
Vi casts weak suspicion but then never follows up.
vi wrote:There are a bunch of people I'd love to see dead. IS, SDC,you[MoI], LLD, Hinduragi,AV, Mina,Swift Justice, etc. etc.
There is at least one scum in this mini list Vi brings forward D1. IS seems insanely town now that Vi is dead. LLD does as well, leaving SDC, Mina (wow surprise???) and Hinduragi. SDC may, unfortunately, be town. Leaving Mina and Hind, and I believe it is Mina.
vi wrote:Town:Katsuki, Magister Ludi, HezLucky,Gammagooey
Maybe Town:SpyreX,inHimshallibe, ooba, Magua
Land of Nulldom: ToastyToast, Toogeloo,AurorusVox, Swift Justice,danakillsu
Maybe Scum: Hinduragi, Regfan,MagnaofIllusion,Mina,RedCoyote
Scum: Lady Lambdadelta, Screaming Death Clan,Internet Stranger
In Limbo: PookyTheMagicalBear,SocioPath
No way Vi puts Hez buddy scum along with Gamma in the town category, two out of four buddies is not happening. All his (her?) scum reads are probable town as well. Leaving the middle sections to sort out.
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Yeah, after reading, I'm pretty confident in these reads.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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Eh, I've looked over the reasons people are voting me, and Its basically a combination of 'wow you're giving off weird vibes' and things that I can't even respond to because they are not eloborated on.
I'm not the lynch for today. My reason has been consistent when It has to be, and has changed when new information has presented itself. Yeah, I changed my reads, but thats because I actually went back an reread this thread a little so I'm not stuck in a rage tunnel because your posting style is quite frankly pissing me off and anti-town.
I'd rather win the game for town that sit around and brag in the dead thread or just spam away hoping people get my message. If you (fate) have a legitamte reason to vote me, I'd actually like to hear it so can dispprove it and can get your vote moved round to actually lynching people who have been doing anti-town and scummy stuff.
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Swift, I didn't put that big list in because I thought his later stuff was more pertinent. I had some thoughts on that too if you wanted to hear it.
~~~
(for the record, Regfan thinks Mina is really town as well)-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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What was 'popular suspicion'?? Is that some bingo term? I barely read the intermitent 10 pages of you and socio counter spamming eachother, but It was basically eachother calling the other scum.
Yeah, I could try and argue for lynching people I don't think are scum anymore, but that is actively anti-town. I want to lynch scum not town.
I view those three other people as highly more likely scum, and Vi's interaction with you as not making you scummy.
Any questions?-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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If you're going to start with the position that I'm scum not matter what, you exist in a flawed position. I'm not scum, but I strongly believe Regfan is scum based on his lurking behavior, actual content and the other two known scums interactions with him.
It makes a whole hell of a lot of sense, and his nuke is terribly aimed for no apparent reason, which is hugely anti-town.-
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Magister Ludi Mafia Scum
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