Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai Khan replaces bamboomancer.

So I am.. Since there's a deadline looming in a few days. I'll crunch down and try to read everything by Friday.

Anything of dire importance I should know about right off the bat? Claims/L-1s/slip-ups/cock-ups/open bars/etc..?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay.. I've just about read the whole game last night and this morning. So my head is swimming a little. I'm now familiar with the major events and cases brought forth..

I still have to do some iso re-reads of who I dislike most. So I should have a quality post up later tonight. Thanks for your patience everyone.

[Kublai Khan]

Ever watch a nature documentary of crabs fighting each other? They hold their claws out, circle each other. Posture. Posture. bring claw close, then back away. Posture. Posture. etc.. Reminds me of this game. A lot of people are posturing, but are being scared away from following their convictions.

For this catch-up post, I'm not going to do a full game breakdown. Since our back is against the deadline, I'm going to list my thoughts on vezokpiraka,

3

4 players who I will be pursuing/questioning tomorrow, then my thoughts on the top 3 wagons. Then vote.

vezokpiraka - So vezokpiraka claimed VT pre-game and effectively killed the RVS stage. Kudos to him. As a general meta, I acknolwedge that he's a horrible player. I mean, horrible beyond what should be rationally possible. (secretly, I suspect that he's an alt of someone testing the ability of being able to play with the scummiest meta possible).

But despite his braindead fork-in-a-plugged-in-toaster strategy for playing a vanilla role, he's actually scum-hunting. A little. Sorta. I agree that he'd be horrible in an Endgame scenario, but that's why mods invented vigs. No vezokpiraka lynch today.

Albert B. Rampage - I love this sequence:

You got it wrong boy. Furcolow

is

the easy target scum are voting for.

let's prove ABR right, shall we?

vote: Furcolow

Unvote, vote Furcolow

I hate self-voters

Albert B. Rampage was also quick to vote vezokpiraka for the win condition thing.

Also,

But...Surye....he's always like this. Always has an incredibly scummy plan, even when he's town. You have to catch him later in the game with his connections to scum.

This is inconsistent. He thinks vezokpiraka and Furcolow should be lynched for scummy play, yet Surye's scummy plans get a meta-waiver. There a double standard at play.

I also strongly disliked his 4th vote on Medicated Lain with 5 days to go from deadline. Something fishy was going on there.

Internet Stranger - White Knighting like a motherfucker.

Kison - The appointed lurker-hunter. Seems to be actively working to keep interactions with posting players at a minimum. Great way for scum to look busy and productive but actually coast through opening days.

ReaperCharlie - Replaced into the game 2 days before I did, yet couldn't be bothered to read up. Instead brags about beating Portal 2, then posts to say he's fine with {whatever} lynch.

--------------------

Furcolow - Like LlamaFluff, I've seen him play better when he's motivated by more exciting (i.e. power) roles. VT claim + shitty play makes sense for him.

Medicated Lain - No go. The case against her si incredibly trumped up.

Surye - Defended himself really badly against the case that Internet Stranger made. (In fact, he only seemed to defend himself against a made-up case that nobody made). Does seem to be floundering and is another VT claim. I'm on board for this lynch.

Vote: Surye

[Kublai Khan]

That post is awesome KK LOL

I have experience with Surye being strung up as scum for bad plans like this, only for him to turn out town. And he tries harder than either vezok or furcolow. So yes, I like Surye better.

Thanks! (sarcasm ignored!)

How many game with Surye? How many games with Surye-scum?

I am probably significantly busier than you and/or lazier than you and/or less task-oriented than you and/or scum.

More likely the first three than the last one.

Not so busy that you can't keep an eye on the thread to watch the lynch happen?

Also, is this a bad time to mention that I usually only see scum joke about being scum? (outside of RVS)

[Kublai Khan]

Does not computer Amrun. You're accepting that Surye will be the lynch, and you'd hammer as well, but you won't place a vote.

Are you just avoiding being part of tomorrow's wagon analysis?

[Kublai Khan]

@Patrick: Does Primate's vote for Surye count or not?

[Kublai Khan]

Oh. So he is. He's also voting for SensFan.

[Kublai Khan]

Hey everyone.. Sorry I haven't posted yet. Been taking a new medication that's got my head all woozy. Can't seem to look at a screen/monitor for over 30 minutes without getting a headache.

Have some patience with me. I'll get back in the swing of things as soon as I can...

[Kublai Khan]

OK, I'm feeling somewhat better. Gonna get my catch-up & post done before taking anything.

Re: LlamaFluff's amnesia cop result: I'm inclinded to believe that LlamaFluff is strongly town for his move. He almost literally just won a game I was in (American Gods Mafia) as scum by fake-claiming that he was receiving amnesiac cop results. It's extremely improbable for him to repeat the same trick twice in a row.

@Yosarian2 - What causes you to be sure about Internet Stranger being town?

After everyone has had a chance to chime in an lay out a possible connection to the investigation target I probably will. I want a few more people to give specific input into the matter first though, always can help for tackling future things.

I have a sinking feeling that you are holding off naming a name because you're not quite sure who you want to put in the hot seat. Or maybe it's just that I don't understand your rationale for not revealing your information. Why are you trying to keep the alleged cult recruiter hidden in anonymity?

I think LlamaFluff is doing the right thing by withholding the information. Because right now, only two people* know the target of the message that LlamaFluff got. The amnesiac cop/note passer and LlamaFluff. If the information is authentic, then the cop will push for the wagon of X. If it's a bogus result and they didn't push for X to be lynched, then any future message that is received can be safely discounted.

Either way, the note-passer has to commit to their stance. So LlamaFluff has to wait for everyone to post and at least make a first vote.

Of course, results can be skewed if the message supplier doesn't vote for the target but someone else does, or multiple people are on the wagon.. But it should give LlamaFluff a narrowing-down point.

Still, I'd advise LlamaFluff to reveal the target before Day 2 ends in the slight, slight chance that the information is accurate and LlamaFluff gets recruited. Because then he might just lie about who the cult recruiter is.

* preview edit - I suppose I'm discounting the possibility that the cult recruiter knows who he/she is.. Putting this asterisk here only for an attempt at absolute accuracy.

---
Back to my day 1 reads and time to question.

Albert B. Rampage - You never answered my question about what games you've played with Surye-scum.

I'd also like to reiterate that your exchange with Furcolow was scummy as hell. By saying that scum were jumping on the Furcolow wagon, you're acknowledging that Furcolow is a VI and will do idiotic things that will earn him easy scum-votes. Then Furcolow does something idiotic (self-votes), and you leap onto the wagon. What context makes your vote ok?

Internet Stranger - You take offense to being called a White Knight, but isn't your strong Day 1 defense of vezokpiraka & Furcolow exactly that? In the last game we played together you were adamant that all White Knights were scum. Do you have a good explanation for why your behavior/attitude has changed?

Kison - What happened between post 530 & 543 (both Page 22) that caused you to finally change your FOS of Surye into a vote?

Also, why are you against a ReaperCharlie wagon considering you're spent a lot of the game hounding people for lurking?

ReaperCharlie - Hey, quote this when you get around to reading it so I know how much of the game you've read.

[Kublai Khan]

Sorry, this game is getting a little away from me..

post later tonight.

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh. Still trying to fully wrap my head around this game.. Playerlist is just too damn full of really good and/or verbose players. A lot to digest.

Coincidentally, I'm heart-ing Cognito Ergo Sum so much right now. So sublimely succinct.

Because enough people have chimed in, I got a Cult Recruiter result on Kison. So yeah...

Awesome. Any of you fuckers want to claim having sent this in?

I'm not hearing a denial...

ugh, fine. You're off the suspicious list for now. Although I still really dislike the way you're staying away from hot topics and focusing on small cases that have slim chance of gaining momentum.

I told you time and time again I had a meta on Surye that everyone else didn't. Nobody listened. AGar "ABR AND SURYE ARE SCUM PARTNERS" no you fool we're not.

The only sensible players here are Yosarian and MBL. I also very much trust KK's skill in hunting scum, but he put Surye at L-1, what gives KK?

I think I explained it fairly well when I voted for Surye. I didn't have the strongest scum-read on Surye, but it was stronger than Medicated Lain or Furcolow. I generally trust your skill as well and I was asking you to convince me that Surye wasn't scum, but you never answered.

Vote: Toon Fighter

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai, I just reread all your posts since you replaced in. Your vote on Toon Fighter is just as sleazy as, if not more so than, Primate's vote on GummyBear. You have never once mentioned him, even in your last post.

I know. There's method to the madness.

I'm reading Toon Fighter as scum. I didn't mention it before because it wasn't relevent to what I was posting about before. The Toon Fighter vote thrown in at the end of an unrelated post was a reaction-fish. I wanted to see how Toon Fighter (and possibly others) would react to it.

You're the only one that has complained about it. Plus you've made two posts complaining about my lack of reads which is hypocritical considering how close you're keeping your cards to your chest as well.

Also hypocritical is your stance on lurkers. You called Bamboomancer (my predecessor) scum for lurking and not providing content, but you're defending ReaperCharlie to the hilt.

[Kublai Khan]

Hypocricy is irrelevant, Khan.

I disagree. It reveals connections.

[Kublai Khan]

Checking in via phone. Vacation almost over. About 20 hours travel time ahead then wind down/unpack/read/post.

Thanks for patience.

[Kublai Khan]

MrBuddyLee has been modkilled for breaking Rule #1.

MrBuddyLee, Townie, Modkilled Day 3

Oh, for fuck's sake..

--

@everyone: Since I'm going to be reading a huge amount of the game anyways, I'm going to take the time to re-read the beginning part looking especially for strange links/interactions (or lack thereof) that HezLucky had with anyone. Since this is going to take a few days, is there anything anyone wants me to comment on right away?

[Kublai Khan]

Yes, before you start, I want you to give some reads, and I want you to comment on events that happened while you were away. For example, thoughts on the RC wagon

Haven't had a chance to analyze it properly in regards to the timeline in which things happened. Although I'll say that those who didn't unvote ReaperCharlie/battousai/Death Ninja after they started providing content (especially since competing-wagon Toon Fighter continues to be scummy) are more likely to be scum.

Llama's gambit

An interesting occurrance, considering he flipped a cop.

He claimed an amnesiac cop result (judging it to be fake) and MrBuddyLee claimed one as well, so that's a whole null situation.

His "I have a guilty, no wait I don't" is incredibly weird play for a cop. It would only cause his future cop claim to be disbelieved more than necessary even if he was trying to WIFOM killers away from him. I'm more inclined to disbelieve the retraction and not the guilty claim.

The Cult recruiter, etc.

Did something new happen with this? Were you recruited? Do tell.

[Kublai Khan]

How is Porochaz still alive?

Better question: How is Albert B. Rampage still alive?

@Albert B. Rampage - Did you shoot Yosarian2 or Internet Stranger? (You promised one or the other).

Vote: Toon Fighter

He should be wagoned and we should get a claim to find out if his survivalist attitude is warranted.

[Kublai Khan]

I am bulletproof to kills and any action on me will fail

[Old British narration voice]Like a caterpillar who emerges from his cocoon a full fledged butterfly, here we witness a wild Toon Fighter shedding his old bulletproof claim for a new sleeker, sexier Aesthetic claim.[/Old British narration voice]

[Kublai Khan]

Oh yeah, Primate, I forgot that part!

I'm an Unlynchable Bulletproof Miller Vig. Also, doublevoter and JOAT. (jk)

[Old British narration voice]Faced with it's natural enemy, the predatory angry mob, the Toon Fighter delivers a lackluster defense based on comic trickery. This does little to prevent the hunt from coming to it's inevitable conclusion.[/Old British narration voice]

[Kublai Khan]

Now that you have had an opportunity to witness reactions, feel free to point out what makes him read as scum to you.

Has KK done this yet?

In my defense, I'm very lazy atm.

Surely Cognito Ergo Sum's 4 words of genius (#1947 sums up everything that needs to be said about Toon Fighter.

[Kublai Khan]

Does anyone have a reason that ToonFighter should be lynched?

I am also inclined to believe {LlamaFluff} may have had a 'machine' {result} on me

I am bulletproof to kills and any action on me will fail

[Kublai Khan]

Vote: Kublai Khan

List actions.
Now.
All of them.

Pfef. A tracker. Figures.

Yeah, I went to Primate last night, but I wasn't the one who killed him.

I am the Oracle.

I'm a neutral survivor and I have the ability to send out one sentence messages. So I've been sending out obviously bogus ones to screw around and keep focus off me.

Night 1 I told LlamaFluff that Kison was a Cult Recruiter.
Night 2 I told MrBuddyLee that he was a double-voter and that Cognito Ergo Sum was a SK.
Night 3 I told Primate that he now had a post restriction and that Medicated Lain was a Lyncher.

I've never played a survivor before or even played a game with a survivor before. So deep down I think I know that it's probably the wrong move to come clean, however lynching me (or NKing me) doesn't advance anyone's WC. I win with whatever faction is dominant at the end of the game.

[Kublai Khan]

Nice knee-jerk, Zindaras.

The town thing is to wait to see if anyone claims to have received a message. Or if anyone count-claims Oracle.

You are town, right?

[Kublai Khan]

I dont buy that you win with anyone. Are you saying you can't lose?

I'm a survivor. My goal is to stay alive.

[Kublai Khan]

Mmk... I get that. Sucks having a third party when there are still scum to be lynched. You have been very unhelpful this game Khan.

I know. That was by design. If I was helpful, then I was a night-kill target.

[Kublai Khan]

How? How could you be a night kill target? Do scum know who is passing messages?

No.. I'm not on any scum team. They were as confused as anyone else as to the origin of the notes.

I thought that if I was too accurate in hunting scum, they might want to eliminate me.

[Kublai Khan]

-You could be everything you say and still be Mafia. Hell, you could be everything you say and be a Serial Killer. The messenger could be your scumbuddy.
-The previous messages already show that you are not to be trusted. You've been trying to screw over the town for a long time. A Survivor would've likely played it differently. You are a liability, and you need to go.
-You did not claim program when LlamaFluff asked the programs to come out.

Okay, first.. Calm down, you're not making any sense and I can almost feel you spittling your accusations at me. I'm a serial killer who has a messenger buddy? What?

I've not been trying to screw over town. The messages were so obviously bogus. I told MrBuddyLee that he was a double-voter, for fuck's sake. Why in the world would I send a message that would have been disproved after a single vote-count (if MrBuddyLee hadn't gotten mod-killed)?

I didn't claim program, because that would have attracted undo attention towards myself. Tell me, how should a Survivor play mafia?

All in all, you're undoubtedly useless, by your own admission. We're not close to LyLo and scum still has to deal with crosskills and our Neo-vig. And, to be honest, there's a pretty fair chance you're actually Mafia. So, no, I don't buy it. And my voting decision

definitely

doesn't depend on a counter-claim.

I have a feeling that I'm dealing with a closed mind who is throwing anything at the wall to justify a decision already made. Is this correct?

[Kublai Khan]

I think he's being honest about being the messenger.
I also think I've seen it three times as scum and 0 times as any other alignment.

Yeah, one of those times was Dark Goma. I was a messenger and you were my scummate.

The only thing I've got going for me at this point is that nobody is going to counter-claim the Oracle. (For the record I got pictures of both actresses who played the part). And the Oracle wasn't a villian.

[Kublai Khan]

You could be a Serial Killer, and you could be Mafia with a messenger buddy. Dramonic's confirmation that you also sent the D2 message makes the latter scenario unlikely, but you could still just be Mafia.

Eh.. You can rule me out as a serial killer then. There's no way I would have left vig-Albert B. Rampage alive if I had the ability to kill.

You could've used them to help the town, or even help by pre-claiming. You could've stopped sending them at all. But you wanted to confuse the town.

I thought about those options. Pre-claiming didn't seem to be a viable option. A messenger is inherently a scummy role. Go back and check how many people immediately called the note-sender scum. Check your own reaction. The only thing dramonic has done is confirm me as the note-sender and you're not backing down from voting, so pre-claiming was a horrible idea.

And I could have sent nothing. But.. I think my strategy was okay. I generated reactions without really placing anyone in danger of being lynched and I find that slip-ups when reacting to unexpected information is a great way to catch scum.

The reactions to the messages are public record and now that you know that the messages are gibberish. Since Cognito Ergo Sum flipped scum, I bet you could check the reactions from the beginning of Day 3 to find someone altogether too sure of my note's lack of authenticity.

Anyway, in this particular case, your options were a bit clearer. Claiming pro-town program would not immediately kill you. We didn't run TF up immediately (sadly enough). Claiming program does help you, however, by making sure the Mafia would never hit you. Which is also a concern for you. Not claiming program opens the door for all kind of blowouts later on (if you get investigated by a program cop you're just dead). Your entire play has been 100% pro-Mafia. A Survivor has to play for both sides.

100% pro-mafia? Wow, that's quite a statistic. I was voting scum for all of Day 2 and Day 3. I just wasn't standing up and making grandiose speeches to get my head shot off like Amrun, or Yosarian2, or Primate, or etc..

blahdidiblahblahblah

Look, Zindaras. That's some fine strategy and all, but you're omitting some things.

First, voting to lynch me is pretty much the same move as voting for a no-lynch.

Second, if either of the scum teams think I'm a member of the other scum team, then I'm proper fucked. If Albert B. Rampage is a vig and not a SK (or scum), then I'm probably proper fucked as well. So if you're thinking that I'm scum who thinks survivor is a grandiose strategy, then you're an idiot. The chance of me being NKed is very, very strong. Especially at this point which is when scum are trying to cross-kill.

Third, stuff like "If we go down to 7 with 3 Matrix scum and a Survivor, they win." is offensively false. That's not an auto-loss, that scenario just makes me a king-maker unless one of the town votes wrongly. Stop lying.

EBWOP: I've also seen some players advocate an immediate Day One claim (I've seen it a fair amount of times) but this usually backfires. My way of playing it corresponds closely to the way Glork plays it. Catch scum, then claim. You're useful to the town because you're catching scum for them, you're useful for the scum because you're still going to stab the town in the back if you can. Scum won't waste a kill on you.

Again, I've pretty much done that. Look at my voting record.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm really not liking this Kublai Khan claim (say that three times fast ). A Survivor role doesn't seem likely in this setup. And if it really was your goal to survive, you wouldn't have claimed survivor, would you? That, and sending deliberately false and distracting messages is very anti-town. If you wanted to remain innocuous, why didn't you send no message or send messages that wouldn't mislead the town? Calling someone a cult recruiter with your first message is very damning. Sure, we ignored it, but what if we hadn't, and lynched Kison? You'd be painting yourself into a corner, unable to claim yourself as messenger at that point, setting yourself up to have to lie to us.

Okay, you didn't bother to read my post before yours in preview, so I'll let this slide and wait for you to catch up before posting.

I will add that I had just played a game with LlamaFluff before joining this one. In that game LlamaFluff was scum who claimed he was getting an amnesiac cop's results. Given that, why would I send my first result to LlamaFluff, the guy who would least likely believe the message? Go back and read LlamaFluff's reaction to the message. I know you're smarter than this, Brian.

Fuck, if I had known that everyone would be so dense and not notice how it doesn't logically add up that I'm not scum, then I probably would have never sent a message.

I'm willing to trust the tracker over you at this point.

vote: Kublai Khan

All the tracker did was prove that I was the one sending messages.

[Kublai Khan]

If you're telling the truth, of course. And even then, I would argue it's better than a no-lynch because you've shown us you're not interested in helping the town.

Except the part about me voting for scum-Toon Fighter for 2 days. It's a minor detail though. Please don't bother mentioning it.

Second, if either of the scum teams think I'm a member of the other scum team, then I'm proper fucked.

Which means your behavior is not consistent with a survivor.

The only part of my behavior that's not consistent with being a survivor is claiming survivor, which my hand was forced because of dramonic's tracking skills.

All the tracker did was prove that I was the one sending messages.

You targeted a person who wound up dead. You have to understand how that looks.

Has anyone claimed getting a message, invalidating my claim? No. Did a messenger already die? No. Does it make sense for me to deliver a message to someone I was killing? No. Can it be logically concluded that dramonic tracked a message-delivering Kublai Khan to Primate who also coincidentally died? Yes.

Kublai Khan, explain to me why you've been sending messages to players that are lies. You yourself said that you had the option of not sending messages. Why were you doing things that hurt the town? Why are you being deceitful to the town with your messages?

You've played with me before, BrianMcQueso. Remember Lynchville? You know that I scumhunt via reactions.

Like, this:

Look, as a messenger, you can say whatever you like to your target. But the message said that MBL would have double-vote power, something that is easily verifiable. If the message was false, it would be simple to prove so. Because of that, I'm led to believe that the double-vote thing is more likely to have been true.

My message said that MrBuddyLee gained a double-vote and Cognito Ergo Sum was a Serial Killer.

If you thought that the double-voting thing was true, why didn't you vote for scum-Cognito Ergo Sum?

(useless messages my ass. You're all going to find more scum thanks to me..)

[Kublai Khan]

Mod: porochaz & Kison need prods, I believe.

[Kublai Khan]

(useless messages my ass. You're all going to find more scum thanks to me..)

I also challenge this claim. Show me how your false messages have led us to finding more scum.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I'll do my best to ferret out the last few scum. That is my best survival option at this point to convince both scum groups will know it's unlikely I'm on the other group. Plus Albert B. Rampage might let me live.

Gimme a couple of days.

BTW, you are one of the remaining living scum, BrianMcQueso.

[Kublai Khan]

No, BrianMcQueso. If I was lying to town I would have sent realistic Amnesiac Cop-esque missives to unsuspecting players. Instead my messages were goofy and easily dismissed. The only people seizing on their authenticity would be scum trying to build cases on them.

You're a veteran enough player to know that "LYING IS BAD" isn't as clear-cut as it was when you were a newbie.

Also, you neglected to answer my question about why you didn't vote for Cognito Ergo Sum.

[Kublai Khan]

How does what you did advance your win condition? One moment you're telling us you're just trying to survive to endgame, and then you tell us you're trying to not hunt scum because it would draw attention to yourself, and then next you're telling us you

were

trying to hunt scum by gauging reactions. Make up your mind: what in the hell are you trying to accomplish?

It accomplished both. For those first few days it helped keep attention off of me. Now that I'm exposed, it can be used as a scum-hunting tool.

(I'll answer the rest later)

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai Khan: Who are the scum?

I said give me a few days to analyze.

I swear people don't read a goddamned thing after past a claim.

[Kublai Khan]

Almost 24 hours without a post. Don't make me force a shorter deadline.

They're waiting on me. I should have something up today.

[Kublai Khan]

Nice. Whenever I'm done my work, you guys are planning to lynch me anyways.

Given that I don't have the same WC as any of you guys, I'm suddenly wondering why I'm spending so much time combing so much text only to lose the game as soon as I produce the fruits of my labor.

[Kublai Khan]

The Case on BrianMcQueso

Reaction to vezokpiraka's VT claim:

Your meta seems to be well established with a few of these other players, which means you either could be playing consistently or choosing to abuse it. We have no way of knowing which is the case. Both are possible, and while that style of play is usually damaging to the town, it is starting discussion. I suppose there is some degree of merit in that.

Solid fence-sitting. Proceeds to vote Primate in that same post then lambasts LlamaFluff for thinking that vezokpiraka is town in his next post (Post #2 Real #98).

Reaction to Note #1 (Kison is Cult Recruiter to LlamaFluff):

a) Llama is telling the truth, there is amnesiac cop, and that cop nailed a cult leader.
b) Llama is telling the truth, but the information was from an anti-town role trying to trip him up.
c) Llama is lying.

{...snip...}

Unless there is a possibility I'm missing (admittedly possible), we either have a "two vigilantes, one scum group and a cult" setup; or Llama is lying.

Strange post. He covers 3 possible setups, then concludes with a false dichtomy that strongly implies that LlamaFluff is lying (due to it being against an unlikely scenario).

Re: Toon Fighter
Amrun tunnelled on Toon Fighter fairly extensively. Amrun died for that, then 3 quick votes for Toon Fighter sprung up. BrianMcQueso answers by starting his anti-ReaperCharlie campaign. He hounded ReaperCharlie/Battousai/Death Ninja all day. Stopping to make posts like this as he goes:

I straight up do not understand the votes on Toon Fighter. The votes on him are from Cogito (who provided no reason for his vote), Kublai Khan (who provided no reason for his vote), and LlamaFluff (who provided no reason for his vote but then later unvoted and it wasn't reflected in the vote count I think). Three votes, no explanations. How does that even happen?

After Death Ninja do provide content, BrianMcQueso leaves his vote, making is a retro-de-facto OMGUS vote.

Day 3 he jumps on the Toon Fighter bandwagon.

Demands a full claim from dramonic when none is necessary.

[Kublai Khan]

But... Mafia would lose if they killed survivor... Mafia risks the chance of losing by outing themselves so that survivor can join with them. Whatever, I am not lynching the third party member over scum.

Hush DeathNote. Obviously if/when we get to a 3 Mafia + 4 Town + 1 Survivor, all the mafia are going to line up on 1 townie and say "Hey, Survivor! Come join us!"

[Kublai Khan]

But... Mafia would lose if they killed survivor... Mafia risks the chance of losing by outing themselves so that survivor can join with them. Whatever, I am not lynching the third party member over scum.

Are you just dumb? Mafia will WIN THE GAME if they claim and the Survivor votes with them. If the Survivor doesn't vote with them, he will LOSE THE GAME.

Because Mafia would kill the survivor over town? After they claimed?