ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[CyberSet]

@Thor - You thought Espeonage was scum yesterday, yes? Why have you said nothing about him today?

I want people to give Espeonage opinions! I don't want null Espeonage reads, I seriously want to know who here amongst you is thinking he's town or scum, and I want that info now!

See what I did there?

Also, Benmage was town yesterday. He has not posted yet today. So...

[CyberSet]

Something Spyrex said. Also, his reaction to my craplogic attack.

[CyberSet]

Sorry for the activity level. Every time Cyberbob and I plan to discuss this game we end up playing Skype mafia instead. Also, it's hard to be motivated when you've caught obvscum and everyone is ignoring it.

re: the NK speculation discussion. Kast was definitely targeted for flying under the radar. Scum probably thought there was a good chance he was CR, and if not, a PR. I don't know about Bilbo... odder choice. Possibly just worried about the Andy+Plum scumhunting intimidation factory.

@Faraday: Need details on how my play here differs from the town meta you have on me.

Need to confer with Cyberbob before I post much else.

[CyberSet]

Faraday, how would you compare my play here to my scum play? I'm fascinated by your argument since I think it applies to you much more than to me.

Also, what do you think of espeonoge?

[CyberSet]

OK so:

DGB, Spy and Benmage are town with the caveat that any one of these (moreso DGB and Spy tbh) would have made for an ideal cult recruit last night.

Cow and LMP are good second tier choices for lynching, but seriously it boggles the mind just how little attention has been paid to Espeonage. What is it going to take to get people to at least semi-seriously acknowledge the validity of the points being made against him? Faraday's lukewarm "he could be scum" reaction more or less epitomises the apathy of this town towards any case on someone other than their primary scumreads. At least Thor has said he's willing to jump on this wagon if he can't get anywhere with Benmage. One can only hope he stays true to his word.

Hinduragi, DGB & LMP have said that either him or Maemuki are probably scum but haven't actually gone anywhere with that position, not even really in passing. Benmage, Nexus and LL have said absolutely nothing about him: neither has Empking, except to ask DGB who she thought was scummier out of Hascow or Espeonage. The only thing Hascow said on the topic has been "Espeonage is town" with no further reasoning given. Magua was going on Maemuki really really hard in the beginning... then unvoted Espeonage when he replaced in without saying anything about why (then or since).

We want all of these people who have previously gone on the record as thinking Espeonage was scum to give him another look and state in no uncertain terms why you have allowed him to fall off your radar screens.

@Benmage, Nexus, LL and Empking: please take a look at his recent behaviour and give us your thoughts. Among other things, he has spent most of his time in this game attacking Set/us for active lurking and tunnelling on him when his own activity has been considerably less than stellar (the hypocrisy of the latter is fairly self-evident). Do you think this is the kind of behaviour a town player is likely to exhibit?

@Espeonage: a number of people have called you out on a post of yours:

Setael, seriously. When you going to start reading the game and commenting on what is important instead of pointing fingers ignoring most of the game and omgusing? You are still my top pick for CR. However you are scummy independently of that.

Vote: Setael

I'm not sure I understand this post. Is she scummy independent of being your top pick for CR? Or independent of all these other things you said?

Setael, seriously. When you going to start reading the game and commenting on what is important instead of pointing fingers ignoring most of the game and omgusing? You are still my top pick for CR. However you are scummy independently of that.

Vote: Setael

Explain both parts of this that need explaining.

Please respond.

[CyberSet]

Totally not active lurking!

[CyberSet]

CyberSet's post is pretty much a scum manifesto. No cases are made, but there is some whining that

OTHER PLAYERS

aren't pushing hard enough on Espeonage. Without a case on Espeonage. Unless you consider

Espeonage is attacking us CyberSet

a case. Or

Espeonage is a lurker saying we're lurking, oh the hypocrisy.

So you were asleep for most of yesterday, correct? The case against Espeonage has already been made, both by us and others. The post in question here is an attempt to bring more people's attention to it; it is (fairly self-evidently) not an attempt to make a whole new case on its own. This is reaching at its absolute worst.

And CyberSet digs itself further with

while these

OTHER PLAYERS

are town, they could be CULT!

Paranoia!

Mhm, sure. What discussion about the cult and its influence would you say is

permitted

? Is it

permitted

to discuss it at all?

I suspect bad CyberBob logick.

I suspect someone isn't getting enough vitamins in their diet.

[CyberSet]

Top 3 cult recruits for us would be DGB, Spy or Kublai.

Can you summarize the case against Espeonage? I personally don't get it. Maybe you can help.

Which parts are you having trouble with?

CyberSet: are you asking if I think being hypocritical is a scumtell? I think treating two players differently when they're essentially doing the same thing can be a scumtell. I don't think it counts if one of the players is yourself. I think it's certainly indicative that Esp is getting defensive and frustrated with the reasons that he's getting suspected. The part I don't like is that his vote doesn't seem to be based on thinking you're scum. It's basically trying to push you away from what you're doing right now, which is suspecting him, and that, to me, suggests dubious motivation.

A whole lot of words and a whole lot of eqivocation aside, what do you make of his behaviour towards Benmage and Setael that we discussed in Post 788? There's some quality hypocrisy going on there and he is not one of the two players involved.

Cyber, point out who made which posts.

You made this post wherein you made the cardinal sin of forgiving a player slot's original scumminess based on the actions of a replacement:

FFFFFF-

Unvote

Espeonage is almost the opposite of Maemuki.

Between that and our initial wall of doom on him you mentioned him twice; once to answer a question he posed about Set (neutral post) and once to criticise his SK vote; which was good, but you never really did anything to pressure him on it.

LMP put him on the scummier half of his list here (going with links over quotes to try and keep this as tidy as possible) and even threw a vote on here, but it never really felt like he was especially interested in pursuing it. There was no followup pressure on his vote, he just let it sit there without saying anything about Espeon and then shifted away after a little while.

DGB did basically the same thing. Here she says Maemuki was scum... then nothing until she lays a vote on Espeon far far later here but immediately retracts it to go back to the cow wagon. Since then she's been listing him as scum (which is odd in light of her claim of not understanding the case against him) but again, there hasn't really been any effort to go after him. To a certain degree that's understandable when someone isn't the #1 scumread, but there's been

no

direct discourse between the two for the entire game.

Anyway. Hascow.

Honestly the claim is believable. Could be a safeclaim I guess... does anyone know if there are any other GoT characters that could be cult cops (neither of us have any knowledge of the flavour)? It's definitely plausible for there to be a cult cop in the setup. As far as his actual investigations/breadcrumbs go, yes he probably should have breadcrumbed more: but by the same token, if he was scum and knew it was going to be his fakeclaim (and with a flavourclaim like that it can only have been a mod-given safeclaim IMO) I think he would have been more conscious of it.

With this recent aggression and her earlier attacks on us for daring to discuss possible cult recruits (notice also how quickly she backed off) DGB is looking more and more like the recruit last night tbh. It would make sense for the cult to push a cult cop's mislynch, no?

[CyberSet]

No, I'm asking you to point out who's making the posts on the hydra. I didn't ask you about Espeon in that post at all. I said to sign your posts because YOU are looking scummy. I have no fucking idea how you get that I said that in relation to Espeon.

We are both making the posts, most of the time we're collaborating jointly on writing them. From this post until Thursday-ish it's going to be me (Cyberbob) on my own though as Set is going camping.

You should really calm down about your question being misinterpreted, btw. If you're going to quote a section that's basically saying "these people have all made posts of X nature" and ask a vaguely worded question about "who's making the posts" without specifying who's making which posts then you're likely to be read in the wrong way. Deal with it.

You've been ignoring Cow even though he was one of your scumreads back before the hydra was made. One could even say you're tunneling on Espeon.

We have not been ignoring Cow, he has been mentioned a number of times as a viable lynch since the hydra was made. The majority of our energies have been spent on Espeon because although we feel/felt that Cow was

possible

scum we both feel that Espeon is basically

certain

scum. I'm sure you can understand why someone might be frustrated when so many people are ignoring or paying lip service to what feels like such a strong case. You understand that a town player's job is to try and lynch who they feel to most likely be scum, right?

That's what would make it a powerful fakeclaim. Who could push for a hascow lynch without looking culted? I am taking this risk, personally, because the claim is full of holes and I don't believe it. I wish I could believe it.

This is such a culty post. Like, damn.

lol @ the votes on us btw

[CyberSet]

@Cow: do you think Magua's anger at your wagon/lynch was genuine?

[CyberSet]

Hindu and LB are super obvcult. Espeon is still stupidly scum but the cult's what's on everyone's mind right now so there's not much else to be said there. Still going to mention him wherever possible though, he must not be allowed to slip under the radar.

Vote: Lost Butterfly

Need to read Benmage's play today again but we're both really confident about those other two right now.

IF anyone was so inclined, your two innocents could help with VCAs.

Would love to but we're both strapped for time right now, Setael is moving home and I've got work shifts and birthday parties coming out my ears. I've got nothing on Tuesday this week though so I can do some stuff then.

[CyberSet]

I am not caught up and I'm V/LA but I have a question for LB. Based on what I've had time to skim, you've stated several times you think Benmage is probably town fake claiming his results. This post makes it clear that you are think he's town.

he has a history of fakeclaiming guilties on people he believes is scum.

look at his play at the start of today even, HE DOESN'T HAVE A GUILTY, he's just more arrogant than he should be.

This post makes it clear that you are quite sure he's town.

Do you still think this? If so, why are you trying to get him lynched? If not, what changed your mind? (Sorry if this has been covered in what I haven't yet read).

-Set

[CyberSet]

Sorry for the messiness of that post. Severely limited on time.

[CyberSet]

it's funny as they're *both* scum.

Why haven't you mentioned a scum read on us before this? Have you stated suspicion on vezok before this?

any particular reason your slot thinks we're both cult (when he claimed a fuckin' guilty that indicated I'm mafia?)

I hadn't seen that until today, and I'm guessing CyberBob hadn't either. We had those reads before it went to night. We should've just said "scummy" instead of indicating who we think is cult or mafia. We haven't really discussed who would be cult and who would be mafia, we've just discussed who we find scummy/townie and why.

no one but Benmage is a viable lynch

ESPEONAGE? Clearly you and he are mafia together. Otherwise your play re: him makes NO sense at all.

My flip results in town dead as a dodo 100%, that should be...kind of obvious.

I think quite the obvious. Especially the last several pages (and hints before that) make you look obvscum in this game to me.


PEdit:

I disagree with Benmage. Faraday's reaction to the claim was incredibly scummy. He was clearly scum before the claim (cult? mafia? idk) but he's definitely anti-town. (I actually just had a thought that Faraday and vezok could be buddies, and his knowledge that vezok is scum is why he was so confident Benmage was fake claiming). Not moving my vote. (Unless there's an Espeonage wagon. I'm even more sure he's scum than I am about Faraday, but it's VERY likely they're buddies.)

(Granted I'm still not caught up. This is based on what I have read). I REALLY wish I had more time to devote to this.

[CyberSet]

*quite the opposite. (not obvious) *sigh*

[CyberSet]

Wanna think more about faraday and read what I missed.

Unvote, Vote: Espeonage

This is still, and has always been, the lynch that will most likely flip scum.

(@Faraday: you thought he was town faking cop. So what would it matter that he had a guilty... since it was faked. It's still sketchy that you tried to get benmage lynched while repeatedly saying you thought it more likely he was town gambiting.)

[CyberSet]

What would you do in that situation as town, when it's obvious the lynch is between the 2 of you?

My point is that YOU made it between you 2, while saying you thought he was town gambiting. Instead of running him up, it would make more sense to just say 'lolgambit' and keep scum hunting. I still haven't been able to read up though. Can we just lynch espeonage please? There's no way he's not flipping scum.

[CyberSet]

lol.

Can we please kill Espeonage now?

[CyberSet]

YES. WHY DON'T YOU KNOW THIS?! I think the bulk of it is under Setael since our hydra name wasn't approved yet.

I'm wavering on you atm, but my scum read is/was based on your play being antagonistic and out of character (which you've dropped?) and on your weird reaction to me asking if you think esp is scum yesterday, and on your interaction with Benmage today, which I found scummy. I haven't had a chance to talk to Bob about it - he may have more reasons as I was V/LA end of day yesterday and he had a scum read on you after the lynch that we didn't have a chance to hash out.

[CyberSet]

CES is win.

I don't even mind that he called me mafia, I'm just happy he sees the Espeonage guilt.

If he does flip CR I'm going to be even more annoyed he wasn't killed d1 like he should've been.

[CyberSet]

Amazing how willing people suddenly are to get on this wagon today with only the lightest of pushes to get the ball rolling. Gratifying, but amazing.

[CyberSet]

I am a 1-shot Vig variant. Embodiment of the Warrior for those who want the flavour claim.

I have a 1-shot Daykill that I can either use privately or in thread. I get another shot if I manage to kill a cult member. I wanted to wait as long as possible before using it to maximise the chance of hitting a cult member.

Considering where I am and that I am likely going to be eating rope I am willing to give my shot away to the majority. Recent consesus points to people like Emp, Spy, LB. Anyway, even if I nab a cult member today I'm not getting my next shot until tomorrow. I've been trying to get people to pay attention to my cult suspicions from when I replaced in for just this purpose, to find who the cult is so I can get them.

I think everything is true about this claim except alignment. I think he's mafia with a daykill and if he hits cult with it, he gets another kill. Makes perfect sense for mafia to be incentivized to take out cult.

Also, I don't see town in his position offering to give away the kill like this. If he were town, he should have SOME scum read strong enough to take them out and take responsibility. There are surely so many cult and mafia alive to influence it that it's just ridiculous for a townie to give it away to the mob.

[CyberSet]

Oh sorry.

I think everything is true about this claim except alignment.

Right. So, if Cyber or Esp flips mafia, I'm pretty sure this is a bus.

Wrong.