Double-Dip Mafia, Game Over

[Amrun]

Vote: RedCoyote

Someone I know.

Vote: Ameliaslay

Someone I don't.

P-edit:

Unvote: Ameliaslay ; Vote: Ellibereth

[Amrun]

I changed my vote because RVS wagons are fun.

Never played with Furry.

Played with RC, empking, hiraki, iam, kunkstar, and Ranmaru.

And sort of Elli and imaginality in two different [redacted]s.

[Amrun]

I changed my vote because RVS wagons are fun.

Not the question. Why did you do it in a "P-edit" instead of just deleting out the vote for Ameliaslay?

Because backspacing is more annoying than typing on my phone.

Also because I was making my thought processes transparent, but hey a wagon on me is just as fun.

[Amrun]

Unvote: RedCoyote ; Vote: Crazy

[Amrun]

Unvote: Ellibereth ; Vote: Pomegranate

[Amrun]

Crazy, how does explaining your suspicion of imaginality disrupt his normal play more than saying he's in your top 3 scumreads?

[Amrun]

Walls of Doom on page 3. Smh.

That being said, the content was good, just too long-winded.

[Amrun]

Lol.

I love this game so far.

Unvote: Pom, Vote:Weyouns

[Amrun]

Unvote: Crazy ; Vote: small

I need three votes now. This is addicting.

[Amrun]

Not just you. Also not entirely out of character for Ran.

[Amrun]

My reason is that you are scum.

QQ some more about your one vote. It pleases me.

[Amrun]

No, it is totally legit.

[Amrun]

Time to do anything? What the fuck are you talking about?

[Amrun]

Also, if it is a scum-driven wagon, point out who on it is scummy and why. Kthx

[Amrun]

ME read the thread? Lol.

Upon reading this post again, you are probably talking about people complaining that he didn't comment on the game happenings.

I don't care about that because of his newness. I care about somethiing else.

You also don't get to make blanket "lol scum wagonz gaiz" statements without backing them up. Hardcore, right? Right.

[Amrun]

No.

Also Weyouns is acting scummy because he is scum.

[Amrun]

Um.

This is a large.

[Amrun]

Small wagon is totally go.

Hiraki, you did dodge the question and I do want an answer.

[Amrun]

Trying to fit in?

[Amrun]

smallpeoples, are you an alt? Do you have other games?

[Amrun]

Weyouns is voting for me because he is scum, to be fair.

[Amrun]

Which site?

[Amrun]

Crazy, how does explaining your suspicion of imaginality disrupt his normal play more than saying he's in your top 3 scumreads?

I don't believe this was ever answered.

[Amrun]

I forwarded that PM to the mod because that is kind of sketch, though I don't think you had any nefarious reasons to do it by PM. Just staying on the up and up.

I want to know how similar the style is to here.

[Amrun]

Hiraki, it was iam's question, not mine. I'll let him explain it.

[Amrun]

It suits my purposes to have him explain it.

I'll follow up if necessary.

[Amrun]

Guys, you are dumb.

Unvote: small ; Vote: Hiraki

Hiraki smells a little bit like scum defending a mislynch for towncred.

Also cog-dis is legit.

Small is town and Low Key's push for policy is more worthy of a PL than anything small has done.

Scumhunt and there won't be LyLo.

I'd vote Pom but then I'd have to unvote WLC, and he is scum.

[Amrun]

BECAUSE. I think I have only read you icorrectly once, actually. We haven't played that much.

Not actually that confident on you here but I'd like a nice Hiraki wagon.

[Amrun]

Pom, explain your WLC vote.

[Amrun]

Pom, no, it's coo. I thought you might have been sheeping me. Wanted to see what you'd say. You can stay on WLC.

Hiraki, you can say you don't have a scum or town meta, but that isn't true. Everyone does. Also I wasn't bringing up any meta at all in this game.

We have two completed games together; one was our first (Naruto mafia) and we were convinced each other was scum and we were both wrong. The latter was a newbie that I replaced into where you were dead town.

We have two [redacted]s in which neither of us have flipped. So I am not sure what you are talking about but you should probably stop.

[Amrun]

Pom, explain your WLC vote.

Pot, kettle.

This is me:



I like it that way.


RC, STOP INSULTING MY WAGON!

[Amrun]

Hiraki smells a little bit like scum defending a mislynch for towncred.

Assuming Smalls was to flip town, what makes Hiraki more likely to be scum defending that wagon instead of town defending that wagon?

The manner in which he did it, and now he seems to be a little outraged that smalls turned on him a bit. He just seems too sure.

I don't have a high amount of confidence in this, though.

[Amrun]

Because we are all subconsciously adding "biggie" before it.

[Amrun]

Imag and Empking are town; RC is null; kunkstar is null leaning scum.

[Amrun]

V/La for an indefinite period of time. My father had a heart attack. I will probably post a little, or maybe even a lot, depending on how much distraction I want, but I may disappear for a couple of days and wanted to make everyone aware.

[Amrun]

Vote: Amrun.

Mobile posting I don't really see as excuse of editing yourself in the first post. Also, slipping in as a fourth vote on Crazy.

Vote: [Low Key]

cuz I don't like bracket or what they're called

This vote on me is bad. I voted for two people for this same reason: when I explained the p-edit vote change, they paid attention to the joke (true, but joke) reason I did rather than the legitimate transparency reasons I said after that. WeyounsLastClone went one step further: calling it scummy. It read like newbie scum trying to keep an early wagon going and attempting to appear like he was scumhunting with no attempt to discern actual motivation.

Unvote: Pom, Vote:Weyouns

Is this a random vote, an OMGUS-vote, a scum-vote, or do you have an actual reason?

And then my vote for him is answered in this way.... TERRIBLE.

The rest of his posting isn't much better.

[Amrun]

Hiraki's defense of "I'm stupid, I make mistakes" is out of character for him. Not sure what to make of it.

[Amrun]

A) I wasn't using it to implicate anything.

B) It is a valuable tool and I don't care if you don't like it. It should never be used on its own, or at least that should be avoided, but this game is about psychology and behavioral trends increase the accuracy of assessments.

[Amrun]

I have skimmed others AND I am not basing anything off of meta, so get your panties out of a bunch.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Weyouns

Still scum.


VOTE: RedCoyote

His hop on the Hiraki wagon was pretty bad.

[Amrun]

Vote: Amrun.

Mobile posting I don't really see as excuse of editing yourself in the first post. Also, slipping in as a fourth vote on Crazy.

Vote: [Low Key]

cuz I don't like bracket or what they're called

This vote on me is bad. I voted for two people for this same reason: when I explained the p-edit vote change, they paid attention to the joke (true, but joke) reason I did rather than the legitimate transparency reasons I said after that. WeyounsLastClone went one step further: calling it scummy. It read like newbie scum trying to keep an early wagon going and attempting to appear like he was scumhunting with no attempt to discern actual motivation.

Unvote: Pom, Vote:Weyouns

Is this a random vote, an OMGUS-vote, a scum-vote, or do you have an actual reason?

And then my vote for him is answered in this way.... TERRIBLE.

The rest of his posting isn't much better.

Requoting this because I want a scumlynch today.

[Amrun]

If I had explained myself, I wouldn't have gotten the reactions I was looking for that told me you are scum. Still going after smalls, too... And only one vote. SO SCUM.

[Amrun]

Unvote: RC, Vote: Pom

Both of their Hiraki votes sucked and Pom hasn't given much to be impressed with, so I'll throw you a bone.

WLC totes needs to die though.

[Amrun]

Good point, imaginality. WLC, provide meta please?

Also, for those of you having a hard time reading Empking, he is town.

[Amrun]

No I meant provide me links.

[Amrun]

RedCoyote, why vote and then unvote DGB in the same post?

[Amrun]

DGB, why is WLC town?

Unvote: DGB, Vote: RedCoyote

[Amrun]

Checked out WLC's meta; his questions and observations seemed far more pointed and useful there. Nothing stood out to me as particularly scummy in his ISOs, unlike here.

[Amrun]

Ranmaru, I don't think I re-voted RC for the reason you think I did. Back when I p-edited in a vote and there was a hullabaloo about it, RC said this:

Because backspacing is more annoying than typing on my phone.

You know, I was thinking about pushing you a little over it, but this sounds reasonable.

In other words, RC thought doing this was a scumtell (it isn't), and accepted the silly explanation for this (phone) rather than the more important explanation (transparency) - which I voted both Crazy and WLC for at one point. At the time, I let this slide for RC because the rest of his catchup post outweighed it, but I remembered it. Some of you may not understand this scumtell, but that is okay. I do and that is what is important. It's nothing to hang a day 2 case on anyway.

Then, RC did a little dance around DGB in his last post that did not feel genuine at all and I ALREADY KNOW that RC regards this as a scumtell. He is being scummy by his own definition and I wanted to hear what he said about it. I am probs tainting the answer by explaining, but I'm bored and at a computer and that doesn't happen very often these days.

Lots of RC's posts have bothered me, though I have liked some as well. In particular, the way RC got onto the Hiraki wagon was terrible, as I said earlier today.

I unvoted RC and voted Pom earlier because Pom was being scummy too and yay bandwagons, but after Pom was replaced by DGB, I see no reason to keep my vote there and plenty of reasons to vote for RedCoyote.

I very much want a WLC or RedCoyote lynch today.

[Amrun]

Uh, town cred? DGB is wifom queen. That being said, I doubt Pom/DGB slot is scum with WLC for several reasons. It just isn't entirely out of the question entirely.

[Amrun]

What? Not sure that sentence makes sense, kunkstar.

I voted RC for one main reason: his entrance to the Hiraki wagon. He had some other things, but Pom also entered terribly and had some other scummy things. I switched because yay wagons and Ranmaru asked me to so I wanted to see what shook out from it. However, Pom replaced out, which could explain several of the scummy things she did, DGB's post seemed townish but not excessively so, and RC continued to compound his scumminess. RC got scummier and Pom got less scummy. It is not rocket science.

[Amrun]

Oh, look. Quilford is voting for scum. <3

[Amrun]

Seriously?

Unvote: RC, Vote: DGB

[Amrun]

DGB, how could you vote smalls when 2 people were on his wagon, one of which was rc?

Kunk, how could you hammer like that? At least it was a hammer on someone I wanted lynched.

[Amrun]

Both town.

[Amrun]

VOTE: RC's replacement
VOTE: Kunkstar

[Amrun]

VOTE: Crazy

Looks bad in light of kunkstar's flip.

VOTE: HackerHuck

Still scum to me, but I am interested in the mason's town read. Is this just that iam thinks RC is scum? I can't think of any legitimate reason for a mason to not give a reason RC is supposedly town.


DGB is frustrating me right now, but she's probably town.

Quilford is probably town - so don't worry. Your "forgot to vote" is entirely different in this situation.

Will put more work in when I can. I'd like to re-read in light of kunkstar flip when I get the time.

[Amrun]

I am interested in the mason's town read... I can't think of any legitimate reason for a mason to not give a reason RC is supposedly town.

This kind of fishing seems scummy.

FoS: Amrun.

Ranmaru said he's not going to give the reason. It's not worth speculating about it.

THEY HAVE ALREADY CLAIMED ROLES.

THEREFORE, THERE IS NO ROLE-RELATED REASON.

IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT.

[Amrun]

But how good of a reason is it? This is my top suspect. I need something.

I don't need the actual reason, I just need the STRENGTH of the reason.

[Amrun]

But scumhunting involves me wanting to lynch him.

[Amrun]

For no other good reason than for the sake that he was lynching me for no other good reason.

So you did know he was a mason?

[Amrun]

I think my brain blew apart after reading mall's posts on these pages.

[Amrun]

I think I have a scumread on smalls. But it COULD be derptown. It hurts my brain to think about it.

[Amrun]

Yeah Quilford should vote DGB.

Unvote: Small
Vote: Crazy

Why?

[Amrun]

I don't think DGB (or anyone) is capable of anticipating that I'd be giving her significant "town cred" for her actions against the WLC wagon.

Uh. lol.

No offense, but that is totally, completely predictable.

DGB is still town, though. Probably.

[Amrun]

@Amrun - At best DGB would anticipate that defending a townie wagon would be seen as a minor town-tell. She wouldn't have expected anybody to call her obv-town because of it.

Have you ever played with DGB before?

[Amrun]

You speak with great authority about what DGB would have done or would not have done and it's strange.

[Amrun]

You're kind of missing the point.

[Amrun]

And your point is that DGB is a supergenius that can read minds and determine exactly how everyone is going to react to whatever she does?

(Even so, the amount of "town cred" she gained from the maneuver didn't help much at all.)

Seriously, nearly every town-tell in existence can be countered with "Oh, but scum can do that too for town cred," but we really have to draw the line at some point and say "Nobody is

that

freakin' smart."

Not at all what I'm trying to say. You're still missing the point.

Tar yay <3 Be town k

[Amrun]

Aw I just remember that Tar replaced RC

Boo Tar is scum

[Amrun]

Who is you?

[Amrun]

Why is the replacing out more likely to be scum?

[Amrun]

Unvote; Vote: Quilford ; Vote: smalls

YEAH I'. FLiP FLOPPING0SO WHAT

I am uneasy about my Quilford vote but I've decided my previous votes needed to change and I need to re-read some shit. To figure out what I'm doing.

This game really deserves some love from me.

Tar I don't understand why you are town when your predecessors are scum.

Please make a case on slay /quilford. I am having a hard time sorting out my feelings on that slot because scumslay vs. Quiltown is warring.

[Amrun]

^ I was kind of thinking the same thing, but Tar's post along with the mason's urgings earned Tar an unvote ... For now.

[Amrun]

Don't understand imag wagon.

[Amrun]

Which bad logic specifically?

[Amrun]

I understand, DGB.

[Amrun]

Why? Make your own conclusions.

[Amrun]

Someone hammer so this day can be done.

[Amrun]

I meant hammer quilford.

[Amrun]

I don't think anything will be achieved in those three days. I want you to hammer.

[Amrun]

I don't know.

I think DGB is more incendiary as scum like she is here.

But I also agree with most of her reads so that is giving me pause.

I don't see imaginality as scum but agree that he has logical issues.

I think a flip or two will help me sort that out.

[Amrun]

Also I think the only thing that can save tar from being scum is possibly quil being scum.

So I am interested in this.

[Amrun]

I'm kind of openly fencesitting on Quilford.

I could make either a town or a scum case on him myself.

P-edit: you called for a quilford hammer on this page though.

[Amrun]

Fine, fine.

Unvote: Quilford

If you don't want the day to end yet, it doesn't have to.

[Amrun]

VOTE: imaginality

[Amrun]

I really don't think empking is scum though.

The way he wrote me off as town early on just seemed unnecessary as scum.

Buuut I think I'll go meta him a little.

[Amrun]

Am I a terrible person if I don't read that?

[Amrun]

Why would you pick ME to do a case on empking?

[Amrun]

Let's ignore relative reads, shall we?

[Amrun]

Idk what open 292 is.

Convince me you're town, Quil.

Because honestly I could see it.

I'm having a hard time with reads in this game. My gut's disagreeing with logic.

I do hope to put some real time into this game tomorrow when I have comp access.

[Amrun]

I think a flip or two will help it out.

I don't remember who I'm voting for.

Unvote; Vote: Tar, Vote: smalls

Sorry dgb. I'm done with the experiment. It's lynchin tar time.

[Amrun]

Mmm, dgb's kunkstarimaginalitybuddies case. Mama likey.

Unvote smalls, Vote: Imaginality

[Amrun]

Omg imaginality is scum.

I thought he had a decent chance but now he really is.

Every post of his on this page is terrible.

Dgb is towntowntown.

Crazy, you're going to have to explain your relational tells to kunkstar because I felt a little bit like I was high when reading your post about it.

[Amrun]

Where did you get that tar thinsk quil is town?

[Amrun]

Whooo, good call with RC getting at L-1 right vefore kunkstar hammered someone else.

Totally re-affirms my scumread on tha slot.

I still think some of Empking's early game was town, but his latter half was null and PoE makes him more likely to be scum than many others.

DGB is TOWWWWN TOOOWN TOOOWN and a hammer on her is tantamount to a scumclaim in my opinion.

My preferred lynch is tar, but I'm the only vote on him at deadline...

I've decided quil is probably town but I'm not 100%.

My picks for the scumteam:
Tar
Imaginality
Empking

Null:
Smalls

Town:
Ranmaru
DGB
Crazy
Quilford

Knowing pj, it's possible we only have 2 scum left, but there might be 3 still.

Unvote; Vote: imaginility; Vote: Empking

[Amrun]

Crazy, I must have missed that flip flop.

Dgb I already moved my vote.

[Amrun]

I pretty much let the fence rip a hole in my ass on Hiraki.

I had some reasons for suspecting him (don't really remember what they were, but they existed, probably they are in my iso), but I wasn't totally sure.

That's just the truth.

[Amrun]

Imaginality, show me how you pushed for a kunkstar lynch.

I'm not asking because I'm lazy. I want to see what you will say.

P-edit: Seriously, empking?

[Amrun]

I would rather no lynch than lynch dgb.

[Amrun]

Aw I did forget we were at odd numbers.

Empking, stop. Dgb is town and everyone knows it (or should) kthxbye

Tar, imag, emp: whichever one of you three is town unvote NOW

[Amrun]

Every single one of those leading questions is crap. U scumz

[Amrun]

You're looking for me to say, "Lying is bad" and things like that. You're commiting the logical fallacy of begging the question; by answering either way, I admit that DGB was lying, which you can then use to point fingers at us both since it is widely agreed upon that lying is bad. In fact, dgb never lied so I disagree with the premise of that question and each of the others as well.

You're searching for categorical flaws in dgb's posts rather than probing intent.

That is what scum do.

[Amrun]

THEY ARE MASONS

THERE IS NO ROLE INFO

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO FUCKING REPEAT THIS

ALSO RANMARU NOW SUSPECTS TAR

[Amrun]

Oh sweet voice of reason

p-edit: Why the frown smiley?

[Amrun]

*points to dgb's signature*

[Amrun]

That amount of push is null for me, imag. You waited until kunkstar did something so scummy it couldn't be ignored - it's possible a townie noticed this late, but it's also possible for a smart, pro-active buddy (which you are, if you're scum).

Thoughts on empking, imag?

[Amrun]

Why would I waste my life questioning a player who isn't here?

[Amrun]

Tar, how is kunkstar consistently voting for Pom at ALL even remotely approaching a SCUMPOINT for dgb?

Fuck this if that was the hammer. Tards.

[Amrun]

eh.

I'll wait for the flip.

I still think the three I picked are more likely scum either way.

[Amrun]

It was a shit hammer on obvtown for very little reasoning.

Tar, what reason do you have to think that?

[Amrun]

Crazy, you're ignoring a lot of context with your analysis on kunkstar/me.

I pushed for wlc's lynch for days. The hammer was awful but at the time I was just happy wlc was dead - but I had wanted him to claim first. Nowhere in my post does it imply that kunkstar was not scummy - and my vote for him the next day shows what I thought of that hammer. Kunkstar did nothing of note until that moment. LOTS of peopidnt say anything about him until then.

Why do you have a townread on imag?

[Amrun]

Vote: Tar
Vote: imaginality

Emp: Why Quil over imag?

p-edit: No, it wasn't.

[Amrun]

Who out of me, imaginality, and Empking is the other scum, then, Quil, and why isn't your vote there?

[Amrun]

Unvote

I seriuosly doubt we are in LyLo, but I guess better safe than sorry.

Scott Brosius next for the claim is okay with me.

[Amrun]

Also VT.

[Amrun]

I don't know why that is so shocking. It fits mod meta pretty well.

[Amrun]

Neither have I, but I am still vaguely familiar.

Either way, high power games are more common now than they used to be (I've heard) but still aren't quite the norm.

[Amrun]

SWeriously, may I ask why I'm not allowed to change my mind based on new evidence?

DGB was trying to get lynched (she's just mass-replaced). That means her analysis (which was where I was basing my Crazy read) is useless because it was designed to get her lynched.

That is bullshit. DGB's analysis was excellent. She was playing her heart out.

I can't believe you guys lynched her, seriously. Obv fucking town.


Scott Brosius is town, but needs to read in context; he has some good onservations but they don't jive together.

The scum still definitely lies in 2-3 of Empking, tar, and imaginality.

Where are tar and imaginality?

[Amrun]

Quil and Empking are both wrong. DGB didn't quit because of this game and neither Invictus nor this game will be her last. (Planet of Hats will.)

Her analysis was genuine and very good and Empking's attempt to discredit it is scummy.

Also, scott brosius, your case on quil really is kind of stupid. (So is his case on you, for the record.)

VOTE: Empking
VOTE: Tar

Tar, I claimed near last because most people think I am town and that is how popcorn claims work. Try harder next time.

[Amrun]

:/

I am not happy with this at all.

I hope I was wrong about Quilford, I guess... And I really hope this isn't lylo.

[Amrun]

Yes. Crazy isn't scum.

I'm planning on voting empking and/or tar. Any problems?

[Amrun]

Crazy only makes sense as scum with empkingn, but empking doesn't make sense as scum with crazy.

Ergo, Crazy is town.

Once again, two of tar, imaginality, and empking are scum. Which two? Still don't know.

No need to rush. I'll take my time deciding.

P-edit: exactly, because he is scumz.

[Amrun]

Yeah you and quil were at l-1. Unlikely.

[Amrun]

Scott Brosius' biggest scumread besides Quil was empking with a side of imaginality; very minor on Crazy and me.

Hey scum

I was probably a better bet gj

Our reads weren't that different so idk what the deciding factor was for scum between us; we were the only two kills that SHOULD have been considered, for any smart scumteam.

So what was that deciding factor? Smalls' slot was bad before scott so it was conceivable to leave it alive.

I feel like if I could figure this out, I'd solve the puzzle.

I guess it could be a small townpoint for tar. Maybe. Or it could be wifom. :/

P-edit: No.

[Amrun]

I had the same thoughts as imaginality but was too lazy to post them. Townpoints to him. :/

[Amrun]

I admit that I'm less confident about Crazy than I once was, and I was pissed about the quickhammer, but why would partners immediately go for each other's lynch in a lylo or potential lylo situation?

Tar, you have some convincing to do.

[Amrun]

Interesting observation, but what makes you think I can be scum with Tar? I've been riding that slot's case all game.

I'm worried about this proposition because the more I think about it, the more I see a achance of Crazy-imag and that would be game over.

[Amrun]

I'm not ready to vote. I need a couple of days to review some things.

[Amrun]

Besides the shitty quickhammer and the long-forgotten defense of kunkstar, I'm still stuck at "why scott brosius over me."

The only differences between us are that I professed a scumread on Tar and a townread on Crazy.

The reason for the kill is in these two - but which one?

[Amrun]

Is today not lylo?

[Amrun]

Empking, what do you think about cross-voting then?

Tar?

[Amrun]

Yes, there's a chance.

[Amrun]

Crazy's last post? What about it?

[Amrun]

And? This gave you a town read or what?

[Amrun]

TAR Y U NO POST

Mod, can we prod him?

[Amrun]

I forgot. My b.

[Amrun]

Unfortunately technology dictates I be v/la.

Will try to give this game highest priority.

[Amrun]

To be honest, I have not done the reviewing I want to do. I've been plagued with fairly crippling technology issues.

But I really want to re-read each player at least, and maybe even read everything in context again. I fear I've become a little out of touch with this game and I want to be more sure of myself.

These things are still on my to-do list. :/

It is unlikely I will be voting imaginality today.

[Amrun]

If your top two scumpairs are crazy/tar and imag/tar, why would you want to vote for crazy, empking?

[Amrun]

Why?

[Amrun]

Doesn't explain an imag/crazy scumteam.

[Amrun]

Empking, what? That makes no sense.

I am okay with this. Hopefully it's not crazy-tar.t

[Amrun]

No, not necessarily.

[Amrun]

P excited because I am p sure the scumteam is Empking and Tar.

[Amrun]

Waiting for Tar to check in.

Whomever dies yonight will be telling, assuming there is a tonight.

[Amrun]

Still waiting.

[Amrun]

Okay, leaning towards voting empking at the moment (no surprise).

But I don't want to do it willy nilly. I have computer access tonight, and I have some modding duties to take care of, but I will be hammering before bed.

:/

Lots of pressure here.

[Amrun]

Okay, leaning towards voting empking at the moment (no surprise).

How well do you think I can read town as scum, really?

No idea what this means.

I'm still evaluating who I'm going to vote.

[Amrun]

I think that's a question you should be answering.

[Amrun]

All scum want their reads to look genuine.

But honestly, that is my biggest sticking point with you.

[Amrun]

Picking out some quotes from kunkstar's ISO that stood out to me. Highlighting players in green that are confirmed, for reference, and Empking and Crazy in bright blue. Sorry, walls ahoy!

...

Ran

and

Amrun

are town. Amrun is Amrun. I like Ran's content so far.

Tons of vote changes from

Empking

seems sketch. Count of 6 separate players without any logical explanation for any of the changes.

In this post, kunk calls a bunch of people town that are town, then makes a lameduck attack on Empking but DOES NOT VOTE for him. No votes out yet.

+scum Empking

I think it's very weird that he hasn't voted at all. Not scummy-weird, just 'why would you sign up for this game and then not exercise your right to vote?'-weird. His activity so far is wretched, I think we're in a 'shape up or ship out' scenario here.

I also think you made a very good point about his "Whatsup with the smalls wagon? Legit or just randomwagongo?" post that he has pointedly failed to address. And I don't like the way he attacks Empking for making tons of unexplained vote changes, but says nothing about Hiraki doing the same.

Hiraki's

vote changes were nowhere near the same level as

Empking

. Like I said

Empking

managed to vote 6 separate players without any reason for vote changes. Notably though

Empking

has moved away from this style in recent posts.

To be honest, my smalls comment was legitimate interest in whether people were serious or not considering we were partly in RVS since people had random votes and I couldn't find anything that explained a legit version of the wagon. If anything that comment leaned more to distrust of the large wagon rather than attempting to join it.

Thoughts on Image, WLC, Elli, and Pom?

Pom

: Not particularly thrilled here, the fact that she took an RVS vote and made it serious with only the word "scummmmmy." is sketch. The fact that she mentions two posts later that she has no one better to vote is sad too.

Vote: Pomegranate.

Elli's

play here reminds me of his play when he seems disinterested, and likely town.

WLC:

Tunnelling on

Amrun

ineffectively here, not much else. Most of his Amrun stuff is based on early content such as a p-edit on like page 2? Picks on her not providing reasoning when there clearly have been worse culprits of that.

I am uncertain on

imaginality

. Early on I had a weird gut feeling about him, but have been trying to largely ignore it due to its lack of grounding in actual content.

RedCoyote

joins my list of townreads.

Vote:

Crazy

.

His insistence on tearing down Ellibereth based solely on the Furry question is really meh to me especially considering that

I

supported

Elli

in it and he never called

me

out along with

Elli

.

Question to

Hiraki

wagoners: To what extent is his early apparent mixup with scumreads a part of the reason you are voting Hiraki?

This post has a lot of things. Most importantly, it has scumpoints for both Empking and Crazy. Despite talking about Empking being scummy a lot, previously, when kunkstar votes, he chooses to place his votes elsewhere, on a slot he was specifically asked to give a read on and a new slot he'd never talked about before. This is definitely +scum for Empking.

HOWEVER, kunkstar's actual line of reasoning towards Empking reads more like scum going for a mislynch than his line of reasoning on Crazy. This push on Crazy for attacking Elli for something that kunkstar also vocally supported reads a bit like coaching - and since kunkstar is scum, Crazy going for Elli and not kunkstar is +scum for Crazy.

Unvote; Vote:Hiraki.

Tomorrow is Crazy though.

This also is +scum Crazy.

I did the same thing.
and smalls is really really town.
Now I think you're town to for whatever reason.
Show me why please?

So you are saying that you see

WLC

as town but nothing to show for it? Tis pretty sketch if you ask me, especially in concert with the last sentence. This will be important when we see

WLC

's flip. I actually think it'll reflect more scummily on

Elli

if

WLC

is a mislynch.

@

Empking

: WTF is that

RC

vote? Absolutely no precedent in your ISO.

Vote:

Pom

; Vote:

Crazy

.

Still need to reflect on interactions between flipped players and these two, but they are still my stronger scumreads.

On the other hand, he actually DOES go for Crazy the next day, but continues to point out scummy things about Empking without ever voting for him. +scum Empking

Like I said, empking has no precedent or reasoning for voting RC and on day 2 he should have at least something to say by now. Plus lulzvote on a townread of mine doesnt sit well with me.

Yeah and Amrun was null on RC the day before. Her being a town read is no excuse.

What? I meant that RC was a townread from Day 1. So Empking voting RC with NO reasoning or prior mention of RC being scummy is bad compared to Amrun being null on RC then seeing a flip and thinking that RC's position on a mislynchwagon was bad (and stating so, which is giving a reason for her vote on RC), then voting RC. That's a demonstrable logical path to a vote on RC.

While this doesn't feel like a bus, kunkstar never votes Empking, goes on to hammer and die in ignominy.

Ugh.

More to come.

[Amrun]

@ Ran

Scum
Wey
LK

Null:Kunkstar, Elli, Imag

Empking, how do you feel about Pom, Kunk, and Imag?

Pom is scummy but the other two are null.

Empking's ISO:

Nothing special except actively asserting null reads on kunkstar and imaginality several times with no explanation or no real need. Totally avoids kunkstar issue.

[Amrun]

Also, kunkstar, can you explain why me voting Imaginality but not you would be indicative of me being scum? I mean, I could understand scum might be hypocritical in regards to their own scum-partners, but how is me being hypocritical in favor of you scummy from

your own

perspective,

since you should know yourself to be town

.

Still reads like a bus, especially the bolded, which is particularly WTF in hindsight.

Yikes at WLC's ISO - first time I looked at it. As I see it, his current two votes are on:

-

Kunkstar for not voting in his first post.

-Amrun for a slew of reasons that aren't really scummy at all.

...

I'd really like him to come here and explain how any of his points against Amrun are actually scummy, as well as explain why his other vote is still on kunkstar for reasons that expired a long time ago.

VOTE: WLC

Technically a chainsaw, but to be TOTALLY fair, I basically got WLC lynched because he was scum as fuck (or so I thought). So I can, of course, see how a townie could come to the conclusion that WLC is scum for his shitvotes. But the particular mentions of kunkstar, especially in the latter part, are not necessary and seem careful.

Ranmaru, when Fate suggested hammering DH without a claim, all you did was say "Uh, no, we should always make sure to get a claim before we lynch somebody." In this game, on the other hand, you're going "OMG KUNKSTAR IS SCUM DIE DIE DIE." Why the difference?

Not that I excuse Kunkstar's actions, but that's for post-game discussion crap. It's horrible play, but I don't think his hammering was necessarily a scum-tell. If anything, it's a slight

town

-tell, since it drew unnecessary focus towards him.

And no, this isn't WIFOM, since there is no way that Kunkstar could imagine that I'd say that.

This part is obvious, especially the bolded. The bolded is actually REALLY giving me pause.

Lol, I get that all the time. Every time I blast someone for making a stupid argument against X, then "OMG, Crazy must be X's partner!" Seriously, this isn't even the first time that happened in

this game

. Wasn't I supposed to be Hiraki's partner, too?

My attention here really isn't toward defending Kunkstar, though - there are actually many worse people to lynch (like the horrible Pom wagon, but I'll get to that). My issue is that you look like scum setting up an easy lynch for tomorrow. Kunkstar

is

an easy lynch, and if I was scum, you can bet I'd be down his throat like crazy. What matters here is that your attacks on him are... very bad. You're saying so much that he "claimed scum" by his quickhammer, even though you've personally seen town quickhammer like that before (Fate in Open 300). Your other main issue with him is that he didn't specify who he was unvoting when he hammered WLC. I mean, seriously? You can check his posts - he was voting Pom and me before that.

Super wifom defense. Terrible.

SOOOO Crazy's iso looks a lot worse than Empking's, but Empking looks worse in kunkstar's iso.

BUUUT Crazy's relational tell with kunkstar is really hard to ignore. I remember deciding Crazy was town in spite of it, but I really need to figure out why I thought that because I forget.

[Amrun]

Wait, Tar, wait.

What happened to your town read of Crazy?!

Is imaginality confirmed scum now?!

I wish someone was here to talk to me.


Crazy was scummier early game and townier later game and Empking was the exact opposite.

Fffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Amrun]

Fuck it.

Fuck it.

I'm sticking with my mid-game read before I confused myself.

Here's to hoping we were right, then, DGB.

VOTE: Empking

[Amrun]

aw FUCK

I knew imaginality was scum (or like 90% sure) after the way the wagons shook out, but I thought I thought Tar would NEVER come back in time to hammer him.


Awwww no.

I flip flopped SO many times.

Awwwwwwwwwww hell.

I hate this.

I was SO DAMN CLOSE to hammering Crazy.

The thing that made the difference was re-reading Tar in ISO and crazy demon seed of Tar-Empking-wifom paranoia because he voted Crazy without even mentioning his humongous Crazy-town post.

SORRY!

[Amrun]

I feel like shit about this.

I was rushing the decision because of my impending v/la, no access.

It shows.

Daaamn.

[Amrun]

I was leaning towards hammering you, Crazy... If Tar hadn't flip flopped, I would have done it. But I should have been more firm. :/