Double-Dip Mafia, Game Over

[WeyounsLastClone]

Vote: Amrun.

Mobile posting I don't really see as excuse of editing yourself in the first post. Also, slipping in as a fourth vote on Crazy.

Vote: [Low Key]

cuz I don't like bracket or what they're called

[WeyounsLastClone]

Unvote: Pom, Vote:Weyouns

Is this a random vote, an OMGUS-vote, a scum-vote, or do you have an actual reason?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Unvote: [Low Key]. Vote: kunkstar.

For posting without voting.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Unvote: [Low Key]. Vote: kunkstar.

For posting without voting.

Why are you all acting so scummy.

What do you think is scummy? I think everyone should vote, at this point voting patters is what will give us information, and people who are not voting are not giving us information. Ameliaslay and RedCoyote have not posted yet (not sure if they didn't have time yet) so I'll wait until they start to do or get prodded. Kunkstar did post, but not vote, so he gets my vote out of the three who have not voted yet.

[WeyounsLastClone]

More people need to vote for Amrun. And kunkstar needs to vote.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Pom, explain your WLC vote.

Pot, kettle.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'm sick of fucking Pot, kettle. It's a broken tell unless someone flips scum.

And yes, I am particularly pissed off at this game.

We're not even playing for five days. What exactly pisses you off? If it's the votes on you, that's part of the game. I think smalls has a point, you calling everyone voting you scummy, but I do feel that's kind of a towntell.

The speed of voting/unvoting kind of catched myself off guard, but I suppose it was expected with everyone having two posts.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Voting on gut with 12 pages of content means there's seriously something wrong.

Seriously, looking at everything from a negative angle? Unless I've missed a post from someone saying 'hello, I'm actually mafia in this game!', gut feels based on people's performances isn't too strange in my opinion.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@Wey: Could you please clarify your case on Amrun because I'm not seeing it?

My first votes were based on only few pages of evidence, but I found someone p-editing their first vote quite strange, even with the 'mobile posting' explanation. Then she votes Crazy and Pomegranate without reasons. Presumably to create wagons, which I find dangerous when it's only 8 to lynch and everyone has two votes. Sure they were only at L-4 at that point, but we were only on second page.
Then, when I voted her based on above reasons (at least the editing post and joining Crazy's wagon), she directly responded with what I consider an OMGUS-vote. When I ask what kind of vote it was, she responded saying I was scum. Period. No reason. Just like all of her votes, except maybe her Hiraki-vote. The real fun part comes where she asks Pom for the reason voting me, while Amrun hasn't given any yet. Except for that I'm scum because I'm scum.

[WeyounsLastClone]

My holiday will start from Monday onwards so I hope to have time to reread and post a bit more meaningful content from then (at least first week of my holiday, second week I'll be away for a few days).

[WeyounsLastClone]

Requoting this because I want a scumlynch today.

Quoting yourself for something you posted late into day 1 really helps... It would've helped if you explained that directly when you voted me. I suppose the way you responded to my vote on you may have felt the same your vote did to me. I'm really not sure why you are still convinced I'm scum. We have a confirmed town who read me as town. I know that doesn't say anything, but not sure why you have such a different read than LK (but it's the same with my view of you I suppose). This duality makes me uncertain if you're the right one to pursue today.

Anyway, not sure where smalls is going. He uses LK's suspicions, but those were partly based on who was not voting Hiraki, so I don't think that list is the best to go about.

Vote:smalls

[WeyounsLastClone]

Good point, imaginality. WLC, provide meta please?

I'm usually a bit of a background player. Main problem is that I don't seem to state my suspicions well, so when I do post people get suspicious of me, whether I'm town or scum. It's no excuse, but that's one of the reasons I don't post so often.

Realized I hadn't used my second vote.

Vote: kunkstar.

Still not sure about his day 1 play (not voting for quite a while and then the only point at which he switched was to hammer; I know I haven't exactly moved my votes around myself, and in a lynch someone has to be the hammer, but all in all I'm not sure about him).

Will post reads on others tomorrow.

[WeyounsLastClone]

We have a confirmed town who read me as town. I know that doesn't say anything, but not sure why you have such a different read than LK

[snip]

Anyway, not sure where smalls is going. He uses LK's suspicions, but those were partly based on who was not voting Hiraki, so I don't think that list is the best to go about.

Vote:smalls

Yeah, you can't just selectively choose which of Loki's reads are fair game to bring up based on what suits you.

Then you should read the arguments. From how I read it, smalls was using Low Key's scumreads which were based on Hiraki being scum. We know this has been disproven, so I don't think these are too useful. For as far as I know, LK's read on me was apart from the Hiraki-wagon, a general read that would still apply if LK was alive today.

@Amrun, here are some of my completed games:
Stratego Mafia
This is from quite a while ago, the last one before I didn't join the site for any games for almost two years
Philosophy Mafia
First game this year after I wanted to start up with mafia again (mini-theme)
Directional Mafia
Second game, running partly at the same time as Philosophy (large)

If you want more links, need to check the archive, let me know

Also currently working on a more thorough analysis, have been rereading the game, so will post more tomorrow when I've sorted my notes.

[WeyounsLastClone]

First to address Crazy's concern.

The "P-edit" thing wasn't really that scummy to begin with.

LOL at how putting someone at L-4 is dangerous. What, like four people are going to quickly jump in and hammer them?

OMGUS isn't a scum-tell, and in fact, in an earlier post, WRC said that it tended to be a town-tell! (in reference to Hiraki)

I still don't get why people thought my Amrun-vote was strange. P-editing your first post in random voting stage just still feels off to me, mobile posting or not. Okay, L-4 might not dangerous, it's just that creating as big as a wagon as soon as possible, I don't think is useful. If everyone were to do that, it would provide no information. It both provides easy reason for scum to join wagons, and possibly staying on that, as well as not having to taking a stance with some actual reasons.
Then after I use that to vote Amrun, she votes me back without providing reason. I ask if there's a reason, and she says 'you're scum'. Period. If you look at her posts after, I don't see how she offered a whole lot of content about it. Only later day 1 she offers some explanation.

To add a bit about kunkstar, as with Amrun joining the biggest wagons, him not voting is something what scum would do in my opinion. You don't take a stance. That I kept my vote on him was that I did not see him increasing his towniness at all during day 1, and for me I didn't feel there were targets I felt more comfortable with.

Now, some of my thoughts on the players in this game. I hope it makes sense, could be all over the players, but if there's anything unclear let me know and I'll try to specify. I'll start with the players I find more scummy at this point.

Leaning scum

-kunkstar

As partly described above, I don't like his abstaining to vote for quite a while.
In his second post (rp #151) singles out Ran and Amrun as town, not sure exactly why, without going into other player's observations .
And obviously the hammer of Hiraki, of which he says

My hammer was pretty much this: "I wanted the day to end and for there to be flips out." Hiraki was null enough for it to be worth his flip since my preferred wagons weren't currently viable.

(post #666, a sign? )

- iamausername:

Not sure if he gave the Hiraki wagon momentum, but why he joined in post #105, it was for Hiraki switching votes, which at that point I don't think was that strange.
As Hiraki indicates in #445, iam is on two leading wagons. As I've mentioned in my Amrun explanation I think that's scummy. Then defended by Ranmaru, but that's for later.
I don't really like how iam jumps and uses Crazy #589 to vote me in #602. This is one exampel, in general it feels a bit picking arguments from others to look town, without doing too much work (also seen in his post #402)

-Ranmaru:

His questions and comments don't seem specifically townie to me. Not sure who mentioned it, think it was LK, but to me it feels he's scum asking questions to appear town. That's the feeling I get rereading the thread. For example, around #450 his posts seem really getting awkward, fetching. (see LK's comment in #459).
Asks a lot of questions, but not saying really a lot. Requests others to do full player analysis, not really providing one himself, just the questions to everyone he seems to be putting out. Not sure why he hasn't got any attention day 2 as far as I could see, as LK did attack him for it on day 1 (see LK #255). I really get the feeling he's just asking questions to seem pro-town, but he's just following others, and always playing it safe.
Not sure about him asking if Pom replacing out is scummy, and with one opinion settles it.

The above are currently my main three suspects.
Next, three that are

null, leaning towards scum

.

-Amrun:

Still don't really like how she kept her vote on me through day 1 without any explanation until later that day. If anyone can tell me why they think she's really town, that'd be great. Rereading I think there are more scummy players at this point, but still keeping an eye out.
Not too sure about her reason to vote Hiraki: "Hiraki smells a little bit like scum defending a mislynch for towncred." (in #259).

-Smalls:

I get mixed messaged from his posting. On one hand, he has some traits of an honest newb townie. On the other I can't escape the feeling there's more it. For example something like

Scumhunting in RVS is fun. <insert cryptic message here to say that I am a Townie>

(post #125)
Also, about the PM thing, still wondering if there's anything about LK's argument in #161. Still don't get how he supposedly missed 'confirm by pm' in role pm. If you're on a new site, I would guess you'd take that information to you.
I thought he didn't claim when at L-1 (but that L-1 was quickly made L-2 by Ran unvoting), but later explained he claimed with

I'm trying to find scum to suggest people to lynch after people find out that I was just a Townie.

(post #203)
At that point he did not give any opinions of players, which I think would have been benificial.
In post #203, he makes a comment about L+2, but pj had already revised that rule, thus smalls missed the edit in procedure (but that might actually be town indication).
In #275 mentions his claim was premature, but he was at L-1, so not sure about that comment.
Finally, don't like his joining my wagon with no real reason in #629.

Pom

Not much content, feels opportunistic to me. One post in particular makes me cringe

In regard to Elli's question, realize that I was protown enough to respond to it. Had I not wanted it to go forward I wouldn't have answered.
In regard to the mention of Plum, I take back my comment saying it was scummy; it wasn't really scummy rather than irrelevant and out of place.
not townie remarks.

"I was protown enough"? "I take back my comment saying it was scummy"? That's two scummy phrases in a row.
I know I can't really blame for the lack of content part, considering my own participation, but I do feel I had more of my own stance, while Pom seems more 'sheepy', which could be scummy.

Null

-Ameliaslay

Need to read more of her, current post don't feel particularly scum or particularly town.

-Ellibereth

Funny how he says Hiraki went from town to null to town (#575), and he wanted to see Hiraki lynch just to have a flip, even thinking when Hiraki is town. Don't think you should ever vote anyone you're reading town, but okay. Otherwise feels reasonably townie, at least in the way that he's not entirely sure about things coming across, lacks the confidence scum sometimes portrays.

-Crazy

Except for his blindlessly targeting me atm, I used to think him reasonably town. Statements like

But

VOTE: WLC

for the same reasons as yesterday, and there's a good chance my vote will stay there the rest of the day.

really don't make me comfortable. It's not really because it's about me. It's because he has his mind set, and he's setting up so the defendent (in this case me) basically can't do anything right anymore (also in his follow-up post where he says that I'm going to come up with something).
Also, Crazy, why don't you use your second vote. Do you really only have me as suspect?

Leaning town

-Empking

Can't say I particularly like his playstyle, but from what I remember it's the usual, and in general his comments and questions feel town.

-Red Coyote:

If kunkstar is town, I think he's scum, but at this point I think kunkstar is more scummy than Red Coyote. Post #172 is a bit awkward.

Ah, okay. Very good, LK. You have to understand I'm in a bit of catch up mode here. Thanks for clearing it up.

That's a very sketchy reason to vote small, but, you know, I'm the type of guy that loves to make a move on things like that. I understand where you're coming from now. My only major issue with you was with what I thought to be some dishonesty.

Unvote

;

vote: smallpeoples343

-imaginality

I think he reads the game and players well, general town feel.

So, I think that covers everyone. Thought it would have more debt, but these are the things that stood out to me when rereading the thread, with my general feelings on how the game went on. I guess I'm too paranoid for this, because except for imaginality and perhaps RC I'm not 100% sure about anyone.

As smalls isn't part of my top 3 at this point, I'll

unvote.

I think Ranmaru can use some pressure

Vote: Ranmaru

. I know it's the first vote on him today, but I guess I hope to see what other think etc.

[WeyounsLastClone]

To be clear, that should be

Unvote: Smalls. Vote: Ranmaru.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Also, I'll be leaving tomorrow evening for a small holiday to London.

@mod: I'll be V/LA from 13 July to 16 July

[WeyounsLastClone]

Vote: kunkstar

, as I forgot to specify my unvote in #697 and this vote got lost then.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Great, coming back and it looks like I'm lynched. Seriously, I really don't get what was so scummy about my posts, except for maybe not posting enough. Scum did a great job here I guess. Really, I still stand by my D1 vote on Amrun. Not sure why I got the flak, while Amrun just voted without stating the reason, just proclaiming 'you're scum' without any case.

I was a benchwarmer, taking over the role of the first townie to die. As Furry was a regular townie, I became a regular townie as well.

At this point I don't have much more to say than that town should get its act together. (that's the nice version)

[WeyounsLastClone]

Just to clarify, above post does not mean Amrun at this point is particularly scummiest. I'd love to see her lynched, as I still think she can flip scum, but kunkstar is really looking bad. Also not to sure about DGB not hammering me. If you're at L-2 and would be town, wouldn't you vote the rivaling wagon?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Even though it won't do anything,

VOTE: Ranmaru

Guys, if I do die tonight, please look heavily into Ranmaru.

Not sure after three dead townies (well, almost) saying that, people will follow suit.

Really I'm not sure what town should do next. Ranmaru with his 'look I'm town'-question, kunkstar who I've voted from the beginning and still find scummy with two hammers, Crazy and Amrun pushing my case, Pom/DGB who should have gotten more flak as well (seriously Crazy, I still don't get why you found me scummy for my behavior and Pom not).