but, The Fonz used to be jmj, so for now,
Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!
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PeregrineV Survivor
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@Stephoscope
Either the poisoner was roleblocked last night, their target was protected, or VP Baltar was the posioner or gonanno was the poisoner.
Either the remove from bunker person was roleblocked last night, their target was protected, or VP Baltar was the posioner or gonanno was the remove from bunker person.
Best case is each mafia had kill style, and with 2 dead, we have 2 less kills each night.
Worst case, docs got lucky one night.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Sorry for the need to prod- weekends are mostly for family.Furcolow wrote:Watch for PeregrineV unvoting Fonz soon if his wagon picks up
That would be involving in the Feysal slip, as Feysal has analyzed PeregrineV as being on the other scumteam
It makes me believe I may have been wrong, which is how Fonz easily says what I said was untrue.
I guess I was wrong as to what team he was on.
I am certain on Feysal, definitely leaning scum on the Fonz/JMJ slot
I will vote it if there aren't many other alternatives
If we can't decide, we could always just lynch PeregrineV and bring that scumteam to 1 person
I would rather not, but if we do that, we NEED to get the last scum to prevent the number of kills
Since I'm addressed here I'll start by addressing it.
Ummm...what wagon?
So I undertsand properly, you think Feysal has me on the "other" scum team, are going with his read, and think he is scum also?
If I'm misunderstanding, please clarify your "argument". You can post as many links as you like, I have no problem reading in a forum-based game.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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There were a few claims, the latest of which is neighbors.Enigma wrote:Hi,
I'm just in the last week of term, a few crazy assignments left but I'll try read through in my own time.
Anyone care to point out the major events and what I should be watching out for .. else it's going to be a skim for most of the (ouch) 70+ pages.
There is also speculation on 2 scum teams due to the number of night kills.
EGL had some hits against him in my read because of his double hammer of two town players, and his riding on a single day1 case for 3 days.
Others probably have more for you, but I replaced in and read it with knowledge of the list of town players.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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If you could please point out my lie, I would appreciate it.The Fonz wrote:Furc, that you were acting like you didn't think there was a second scumgroup doesn't mean the possibility wasn't discussed in your QT. Also, claiming BP might protect you from being vigged, which is an obvious danger for furcscum.
I still don't like the Feysal wagon. If no-one's willing to join me on Furc, or to wagon Peregrine who also lied, I will support a Steph or EGL wagon in opposition.
What would be your reasons for Steph, other than an opposing wagon?
I'm not sold on Feysal as scum, yet, but EGL was looking bad (but going to give new player a chance to review and respond).I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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So, I am confused by the bolded part.Feysal wrote:Looks like I've been outed, so I might as well confirm my role explicitly. I am indeed Erich Honecker,Soviet neighbor, smargaret's partner. I could add that while our alignments are unconfirmed, our names and nationalities are confirmed to each other. I know for a fact that smargaret is Willy Brandt, West German neighbor, and she knows similarly who I am.While I'm at it, I can also reveal two clues I left to my role and nationality.The major one was in post #462, my second one in the game. Take the first letter of each sentence, paragraph by paragraph, and you get AUFERSTANDEN AUS RUINEN, the name and first verse of the East German anthem, which I rather like.
The key here is that I implied Bunnylover would be either Cuban or Soviet, not both. At the time, from my own role, I thought that Soviet townies would not have a nationality other than Soviet.My role has no mention of me being East German anywhere. It was not until VP Baltar flipped Vietnamese Soviet that I learned otherwise.
You did or did not know your nationality as East German? And you claim is not Erich Honecker, East German Soviet neighbor, which would make sense if you were the East German Soviet neighbor.
And how can VP Baltar's flip tell you that you are East German? If it was not in your PM, why woudl you suddnely think it?
I'm a little/lot confused, so any clarification would be appreciated.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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@Feysal- I would still like some sort of explanation about this (Post 1938), since it seems fairly major. Would also like to hear your response to smargrets posts about the topic Post 1940.
@The Fonz- I have no idea why David Parker lied. Why do you think he lied?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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So, by the bolded part above, you know ThAd is town?The Fonz wrote:
The most obvious explanation would be to protect his buddy ThAd.PeregrineV wrote: @The Fonz- I have no idea why David Parker lied. Why do you think he lied?The second most obvious is to buddy up to ThAd-town. Both of those are more likely than 'He really thought ThAd was town and it was worth the risk' because the risk there is HUGE for town.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Wow, in a written game, you'd think that semantics would matter.
Now, did Fonz say this?
The most obvious explanation would be to protect his scum-buddy ThAd. The second most obvious is to buddy up to ThAd-town. Both of those are more likely than 'He really thought ThAd was town and it was worth the risk' because the risk there is HUGE for town.
Or this?
The most obvious explanation would be to protect his buddy ThAd. The second most obvious is to buddy up to ThAd-town. Both of those are more likely than 'He really thought ThAd was town and it was worth the risk' because the risk there is HUGE for town.
And, to anyone reading, is there a difference?
Perhaps you mean something else. Why do you think David Parker might have lied? Please be as specific as you can.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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I think Sathoris said it also, but I'd like to hear Feysal respond to my questions, smargarets questions, and any others people might have. I think it makes the most sense to hear what he has to say, then vote how we want.LynchMePls wrote:
THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING IT WRONG. VOTE PLEASE.Votecount wrote:Not voting - 4 - Feysal, Enigma, Sathoris, PeregrineV
PeregrineV replaced DP, right? I'm fine with that wagon too.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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If Feysal's posting elsewhere but not here, I think that means something. I'd probably take it to mean he doesn't really have a defense, and doesn't want to give away any more information which could hurt his fellow mafiates. If there's not something by Monday, my vote will probably go to him, unless new infromation about another player comes to light.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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I think there is some merit in understanding the design (as much as we can), because it basically matters.
Players:
Still Standing:
1 Beasts of the Sea
4 (EGL) Enigma
6 (DavidParker) PeregrineV
8 ThAdmiral
10 Furcolow
11 Lowell
13 smargaret
18 bvoigt
22 (jmj3000) (mothrax) The Fonz
24 Sathrois
Six Feet Under:
15. (julienvonwolfe)bunnylover was lynched on Day one. He was was Che Guevara - Cuban Roleblocker.
3 RedCoyote was poisoned on night one. He was John Glenn, US Odd-Night Vigilante.
20 LlamaFluff was assassinated on night one. He was John F Kennedy, US Townie
23 (Ghostwriter) hohum was removed from the bunker on night one. He was Harold Wilson, British Townie
16 (PoisonIvy) Amrun was lynched on day two. She was Joseph McCarthy - US Blacklister
2 (themanhimself) (InflatablePie) Debonair Danny DiPietro was poisoned on night 2. He was Edward R Murrow - US Townie
9 (Artem) VP Baltar was assassinated night two. He was Ho Chi Minh - Vietnamese Soviet Mafia Goon
21 nachomma8 was removed from the bunker on night two. He was Josep Broz Tito - Yugoslavian Townie
17 gonnano was lynched on day three. He was Janos Kadar - Soviet Mafia Goon
12 XScorpion was assassinated night three. He was Leonid Brezhnev, Soviet Townie
5 (pappums rat) Feysal was lynched on day four. He was Erich Honecker - Soviet Neighbour
14 Scott Brosius was poisoned on night night four. He was J Edgar Hoover - US Mafia Jailkeeper
7 LynchMePls was assassinated on night four. He was Nikita Kruschev - Sovier Watcher
19 Stephoscope was removed from the bunker on night four. He was Andrei Gromyko - Soviet Mafia Rolecop
There are 10 players left. I am making the following assumptions:
No self-aligned roles.
Mafia teams of equal size.
Then it matters whether it is 8v2 or 6v3v1. The first means 22% scum, the second 44% scum.
It also affects how we look at the interactions between dead mafia and live players.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Put all of the vote counts into Excel to try some analysis on it. For the first part, here is the voting patterns of the remaining players. The percentage of the votes is only counted if the vote occured during a vote count, which in general was once per real day. It is only for days 1-4.
Player Voting Beasts of the Sea Player Frequency Amrun 47% The Fonz 16% smargaret 13% PeregrineV 11% No votes 8% Furcolow 3% Gonnano2% ***** *** Player Voting EGL Player Frequency PeregrineV 37% ThAdmiral 31% Amrun 15% LlamaFluff 10% No votes 6% bunnylover 2% Player Voting Enigma Player Frequency No votes 100% ***** *** Player Voting DavidParker Player Frequency Amrun 19% Scott Brosius19% The Fonz 15% Furcolow 15% No votes 13% Gonnano8% bunnylover 4% Feysal 2% VP Baltar2% LynchMePls 2% Player Voting PeregrineV Player Frequency The Fonz 50% No votes 50% ***** *** Player Voting Furcolow Player Frequency Amrun 27% No votes 15% Enigma 13% Gonnano11% smargaret 8% The Fonz 6% bunnylover 5% Feysal 5% VP Baltar3% PeregrineV 3% Beasts of the Sea 2% No lynch 2% ***** *** Player Voting Lowell Player Frequency Gonnano21% The Fonz 21% PeregrineV 15% No votes 15% hohum 10% Amrun 8% bunnylover 5% smargaret 5% Feysal 2% ***** *** Player Voting Furcolow Player Frequency Stephoscope19% ThAdmiral 13% Amrun 11% Furcolow 10% Feysal 10% The Fonz 6% Gonnano6% Enigma 6% No votes 6% bunnylover 5% hohum 3% LynchMePls 3% ***** *** Player Voting bvoigt Player Frequency Gonnano31% Amrun 26% Stephoscope10% ThAdmiral 8% Nachomamma8 6% Feysal 6% bunnylover 5% PeregrineV 5% Furcolow 2% No vote 2% ***** *** Player Voting jmj3000-mothrax Player Frequency No votes 68% Amrun 26% Furcolow 6% Player Voting The Fonz Player Frequency Furcolow 68% No votes 32% ***** *** Player Voting Sathoris Player Frequency No votes 40% Furcolow 35% Amrun 13% smargaret 6% LynchMePls 5% I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Yes, certain people will not like me providing information to town. Right now it is raw data, as I have paid work I need to do, so it comes as I am available to provide it.
Second part will be the scum vote records, and then I'll go from there.
Yes, one of the Furcolow's is smargaret's voting record. I'll fix in the morning when I get to work, since I have the file saved there.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Right now, it shows how how often each players' vote was on the listed player for days 1-4. It's just raw data now, but I plan on doing the scum vote patterns also, and see what that gives us.Lowell wrote:@pere- I have no idea how to read your charts, or more to the point why they're there. Are they supposed to be interesting only, or are you trying to make a point with them? If so I don't see it.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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They are separate and also together because the player changed. Same for EGL/Enigma and DavidParker/Me. I can't explain DavidParker's votes anymore than reading what he wrote, and I believe the same holds true for all replacements. Each player (or group for replacements) is divided by *********.
I will do my own analysis, but see no reason not to provide the raw data until then, and allow others to do the same. We are not close to a deadline, so I will post info as it develops.
I don't understand when you say I "left out the least useful information". What would that be? And if it's least useful, why would I want to post it?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Voting frequency table fixed.
Corrections made: Old table had duplicate Furcolow, and was missing ThAdmiral and smargaret. New table contains corrected Furcolow, and ThAdmiral and smargaret added in.
Player Voting Beasts of the Sea Player Frequency Amrun 47% The Fonz 16% smargaret 13% PeregrineV 11% No votes 8% Furcolow 3% Gonnano 2% ***** *** Player Voting EGL Player Frequency PeregrineV 37% ThAdmiral 31% Amrun 15% LlamaFluff 10% No votes 6% bunnylover 2% Player Voting Enigma Player Frequency No votes 100% ***** *** Player Voting DavidParker Player Frequency Amrun 19% Scott Brosius 19% The Fonz 15% Furcolow 15% No votes 13% Gonnano 8% bunnylover 4% Feysal 2% VP Baltar 2% LynchMePls 2% Player Voting PeregrineV Player Frequency The Fonz 50% No votes 50% ***** *** Player Voting ThAdmiral Player Frequency smargaret 16% Amrun 13% hohum 13% Feysal 13% No votes 11% PeregrineV 8% Gonnano 6% The Fonz 5% LlamaFluff 5% Enigma 5% bvoigt 5% ***** *** Player Voting Furcolow Player Frequency Amrun 27% No votes 15% Enigma 13% Gonnano 11% smargaret 8% The Fonz 6% bunnylover 5% Feysal 5% VP Baltar 3% PeregrineV 3% Beasts of the Sea 2% No lynch 2% ***** *** Player Voting Lowell Player Frequency Gonnano 21% The Fonz 21% PeregrineV 15% No votes 15% hohum 10% Amrun 8% bunnylover 5% smargaret 5% Feysal 2% ***** *** Player Voting smargaret Player Frequency Stephoscope 19% ThAdmiral 13% Amrun 11% Furcolow 10% Feysal 10% The Fonz 6% Gonnano 6% Enigma 6% No votes 6% bunnylover 5% hohum 3% LynchMePls 3% ***** *** Player Voting bvoigt Player Frequency Gonnano 31% Amrun 26% Stephoscope 10% ThAdmiral 8% Nachomamma8 6% Feysal 6% bunnylover 5% PeregrineV 5% Furcolow 2% No vote 2% ***** *** Player Voting jmj3000-mothrax Player Frequency No votes 68% Amrun 26% Furcolow 6% Player Voting The Fonz Player Frequency Furcolow 68% No votes 32% ***** *** Player Voting Sathoris Player Frequency No votes 40% Furcolow 35% Amrun 13% smargaret 6% LynchMePls 5% I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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When I first read thorugh this I saw discussion on the possible kill flavors for each group. I don't remember what the final decision was. Can you tell me what post it was in, or what page or range of pages I might be able to find it?Sathoris wrote:Well poisoned was the Soviet scum telltale wasn't it. Intentional, I'm not so sure. Scott didn't appear that scum or townie. I think the last soviet scum took a shot in the dark and happen to hit a US mafia.
While typing this. Why are some people thinking it could be 8v2? We already have one vig odd night vig down so one even night vig left. One kill from the vig (removed from bunker) one kill from the soviet (Poisoned) and one from the US team (Assassinated)
VOTE: PeregrineV
How do you think we might be in a 8v2 situation unless you know something else?
And frankly, I have no idea what we are still facing. You seem pretty sure it's not 8v2. Can you please elaborate?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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OK, so finally finished the second half of the data I wanted to make available- the voting records for the mafia.
(If you see the word "table" appear three times under here- I'm not sure what causes it. Chalk it up to html error.)
Player Voting VP Baltar Player Frequency Gonnano20% No votes 20% Amrun 17% smargaret 17% The Fonz 15% DDD 12% Player Voting Gonanno Player Frequency Amrun 29% No votes 21% The Fonz 17% Lowell 12% smargaret 12% Enigma 8% bunnylover 2% Player Voting Stephoscope Player Frequency bvoigt 29% Furcolow 21% Amrun 18% No votes 11% Feysal 8% bunnylover 6% Gonnano5% smargaret 2% Player Voting Scott Brosius Player Frequency Furcolow 31% Enigma 18% The Fonz 11% PeregrineV 11% Feysal 8% Amrun 8% Gonnano5% no votes 5% ThAdmiral 3% I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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So, Soviet mafia killed RedCoyote, Debonair Danny DiPietro (InflatablePie), nobody, andbvoigt wrote:@PeregrineV: RedCoyote was "poisoned," and someone was "assassinated" on Night 3, when we presumably had no vig shot. So the vig flavor must be "removed from the bunker." Then you can figure out the remaining flavors from crosskills. "Poisoned" is Soviet, and "assassinated" is American.
Actually, instead of a mass name claim, how about just nationality claims?bvoigt wrote:Also, would we benefit from a mass name claim?Scott Brosius.
American mafia killed LlamaFluff,VP Baltar, XScorpion, and LynchMePls.
Town vig RedCoyote killed hohum (Ghostwriter) night 1.
Town vig unknown killed nachomama8 night2 andStephoscopenight4.
So, why did the Soviet mafia not kill night 3?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Ok, so I posted some of the raw voting data percentages. Did anyone get anything useful from them?
With that, for me, they didn't quite do what I wanted them to. However, the Excel document I have has helped me note some anomalies in the votes.
1. From this, I believe I know the even-night vig, so I can confirm them town in my mind.
2. Votes received this game through day 4.
Furcolow----------132
ThAdmiral--------- 118
The Fonz ----------97
PeregrineV---------83
smargaret---------51
Enigma------------30
bvoigt-------------21
Lowell--------------9
Beasts of the Sea---1
Sathoris------------1
Gonnano-----------93
Stephoscope-------18
Scott Brosius-------10*
VP Baltar-----------3
And the Scott Brosius number is inflated. DavdParker voted him before leaving, and when I replaced in I didn’t unvote until I finished the thread. His actual number is around 2.
My point on this is how did Scott and VP Baltar (Artem) act “so town” so as to receive just a few votes out of 62 vote counts from 20+ players? This is exactly the flying under the radar that the scum team wants. Gonnano failed, but the rest seemed to be doing fine.
So, for now, I will
VOTE: Beasts of the Sea.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Scott Brosius wrote:bvoigt wrote:Feysal wrote:Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2931914#p2931914]#1825[/url] wrote:It's looking like 8 vs 4 vs 2.
Why so pessimistic? 8-4-2 could be possible, but I think 10-3-1 is at least equally possible.
I think a 3-man scumteam would have a tough time in a 24-player game. With a Day 1 lynch, crosskill, and good vig shot, they could be eliminated by Day 2 in a worst-case scenario.
Yeah I would guess more likely 8-4-2, small chance of 3 man teams with some random third parties running around but given no flips and seemingly no SK 8-4-2 makes the most sense.
And this post of Scott's where he seemingly validates 4 man scum teams make me think there is only 3 on each, making it 8-2.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Beasts of the Sea wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:So, for now, I will
VOTE: Beasts of the Sea.
This is new. Voting someone just because they have received the least number of votes throughout the game? Perhaps it is just being useful? Maybe you should try it sometime. And just to humor you a bit and since you did all that vote counting, why did you pick me over Sathoris who has also only received one vote?
Well, this:
"My point on this is how did Scott and VP Baltar (Artem) act “so town” so as to receive just a few votes out of 62 vote counts from 20+ players? This is exactly the flying under the radar that the scum team wants."
Vp Baltar- 3
Scott Brosius-2
You-1
Sathoris-1
And you because Sathoris is already attracting attention today. He's had 1 or 2 votes on him all day.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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@Smargaret- So, do you think you are the best lynch of the day? Are you mafia? If not, who do you think is?
@ThAd- I like the vote analysis, but I still get the feeling smarget is scummy without being actual scum. And starting the about the third vote block, there actually is scum already on most of the wagons.
@Beasts- So you feel that the fact that absolutely nothing you've said, done, or posted that has caused one person to vote for you all day not the least bit suspicious (your one vote was Furcolow's first)? Even though it puts your total game vote count in line with 3 of the dead scum?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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smargaret wrote:Peregrine - No, I don't think I'm the best lynch of the day, because I know my alignment (town) and I know we should lynch US scum today. I think we're better off lynching scum, and I think scum is likely in {you, EGL, bvoigt}. Also, you're line "scummy without being actual scum" sounds a lot like you know I'm town and you're trying to distance yourself from a mislynch.
Enigma - it's more than one wagon.
ThAd - what you said.
Au contraire mon cher. I have no problem lynching you today. However, IREALLYwould rather lynch a mafia aligned player. Since you claim not to be, I would think you would also agree.
But, the extent of your reponse is to list three likely scum. Perhaps a case why, with examples? ThAd did one, I have mine, so nothing stops you from proving your points.
Until then, you'll understand why I disagree with you.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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ThAdmiral wrote:@ peregrine: I'm gonna jump in here because I think your line of argument is bad. Firstly people can't choose how much they are voted. If they could scum would choose never to be voted. Secondly not all scum play alike. At all.
My point is that it seems Beasts is "too town to be town", so to speak. He's got one page of posts. Read his posts as if he were American scum, then go back and read it if he were town. Take notes both ways. Then decide if you want to vote for him.
Not all scum play the same, but town takes more chances, because when they flip, they'll flip town. Scum takes less chances, 'cause when they flip, it hurts their team more.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Beasts of the Sea wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:My point is that it seems Beasts is "too town to be town", so to speak. He's got one page of posts.Read his posts as if he were American scum, then go back and read it if he were town.Take notes both ways. Then decide if you want to vote for him.
Not all scum play the same, but town takes more chances, because when they flip, they'll flip town. Scum takes less chances, 'cause when they flip, it hurts their team more.
First off, "too town to be town" has never been a scumtell.
Secondly, the bolded above looksstronglylike a scum slip, because, why wouldn't they read it from aSovietscum standpoint as well? Perhaps because you are Soviet and you know that isn't possible? Yep. Caughtscum.
Vote: PeregrineV
As for me, people can read my posts any way they want; it should be perfectly plain where my allegiance lies. My posting speaks for itself. And if you think my "one page of posts" is something to scoff at, then, well, ok. If anyone else wants to ISO me, they are free to read through my posts and pick them apart piece by piece if they so wish.
Well, Mr American scum, because I do not believe there are any Soviet scum left. Am I wrong?
So, to follow your logic,
1. I say read Beasts in iso as town and as scum, take notes, and see what you see.
2. You say that's a scumslip that I call you American scum.
3. You tell people they are free to read your posts and pick them apart piece by piece if they so wish.
4. You vote me.
So, is that an OMGUS vote, are you angry you've been caught after being so free, or did you just say what I said after voting for me?
Maybe it's the pressure of my single vote?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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@The Fonz- If you feel my argument is so bad, please explain to the best of your ability the high degree of similarity between Beasts number of votes and those of VP Baltar and Scott Brosius? Even Stephoscope was only voted on 3 occasions- the players just held thier votes over multiple days.
See, if you explain to me why Beasts is the same (under the radar, very low vote count) as the other mafia on paper, but oh so different just because, then I will switch my vote to someone else.
Otherwise, you can vote for Beasts also.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Going to respond out of order.
@Whoever missed it- DavidParker claimed Soviet Townie here, complete with name: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2818193
Soviet scum team questions it here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2818261
American scum team brings it up here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2818602
@The Fonz- decent analyis. Also like how #3 admits that Beasts may be scum. I concur with that name on the list. Also, I'm Soviet.
@Enigma- Can you post the complete living player list with nationality claim, since you seem to have a consolidated one?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Beasts of the Sea wrote:I am French.
PeregrineV wrote:Well, Mr American scum, because I do not believe there are any Soviet scum left. Am I wrong?
Yes, for a couple reasons. I have to once again say that balance wise two goons and a rolecop (three total) on a team in a game of 24 doesn't really seem like a balanced faction. In addition, gonnano claimed watcher results so unless he made up two nights of watcher results (highly unlikely) the Soviets have a watcher.
Excellent-
So, Mr Beasts of the Sea. You believe there to be 3 American scum and 1 Soviet scum left.
Please label each living player as to thier scum or town affiliation.
1 Beasts of the Sea
4 Enigma
6 PeregrineV
8 ThAdmiral
10 Furcolow
11 Lowell
13 smargaret
18 bvoigt
22 The Fonz
24 SathroisI will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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PeregrineV wrote:@The Fonz- If you feel my argument is so bad, please explain to the best of your ability the high degree of similarity between Beasts number of votes and those of VP Baltar and Scott Brosius? Even Stephoscope was only voted on 3 occasions- the players just held thier votes over multiple days.
See, if you explain to me why Beasts is the same (under the radar, very low vote count) as the other mafia on paper, but oh so different just because, then I will switch my vote to someone else.
Otherwise, you can vote for Beasts also.
The Fonz wrote:No. That's craplogic. That some scum were able to avoid getting votes doesn't mean that all the people who didn't get a lot of votes were scum. It's like saying 'We lynched two lurking town, so the rest of the lurkers must be town also.' Only one person voted for LMP all game, no-one ever voted for Nachomamma. Hardly anyone's voted for Lowell, either.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when I replaced in, the town lynch record was 1 scum, 2 town (now 3). Scum and vig kills have had better luck (or skill) at killing scum than whatever "traditional" scumhunting techniques were previously employed over the last month.
So, I'm presenting a case based on what I see is a pattern match to behavoir combined with reading the posts. Explain to me why it's craplogic when it it has yet to be proven wrong (or right).I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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The Fonz wrote:Enigma wrote:
Also, Fonz are you thinking there is still one more Soviet scum left?
It would surprise me if it were not the case. 18-3-3 with the Soviet scum not having any kind of RBing or protective roles, given the existence of odd and even night vigs (harder to take out than a single full vig) doesn't seem balanced.
If you wouldn't mind, your town/scum reads since you believe there to be 3 American scum and 1 Soviet scum left.
1 Beasts of the Sea
4 Enigma
6 PeregrineV
8 ThAdmiral
10 Furcolow
11 Lowell
13 smargaret
18 bvoigt
22 The Fonz
24 SathroisI will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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If there are only 2 left:
15 bunnylover Che Guevara - Cuban Roleblocker.
3 RedCoyote John Glenn, US Odd-Night Vigilante.
20 LlamaFluff John F Kennedy, US Townie
23 hohum Harold Wilson, British Townie
16 Amrun Joseph McCarthy - US Blacklister
2 Debonair Danny DiPietro Edward R Murrow - US Townie
9 VP Baltar Ho Chi Minh - Vietnamese Soviet Mafia Goon
21 nachomma8 Josep Broz Tito - Yugoslavian Townie
17 gonnano Janos Kadar - Soviet Mafia Goon
12 XScorpion Leonid Brezhnev, Soviet Townie
5 Feysal Erich Honecker - Soviet Neighbour
14 Scott Brosius J Edgar Hoover - US Mafia Jailkeeper
7 LynchMePls Nikita Kruschev - Sovier Watcher
19 Stephoscope Andrei Gromyko - Soviet Mafia Rolecop
Town (dead): RB, Odd-vig, blacklister, neighbor, watcher, 5 VT
Town (alive): even-vig, neighbor, 6 VT
Scum Soviet (dead): Rolecop, Goon, Goon
Scum American (dead): Jailkeeper
Scum American (alive): ??, ??I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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If there are 4 left:
15 bunnylover Che Guevara - Cuban Roleblocker.
3 RedCoyote John Glenn, US Odd-Night Vigilante.
20 LlamaFluff John F Kennedy, US Townie
23 hohum Harold Wilson, British Townie
16 Amrun Joseph McCarthy - US Blacklister
2 Debonair Danny DiPietro Edward R Murrow - US Townie
9 VP Baltar Ho Chi Minh - Vietnamese Soviet Mafia Goon
21 nachomma8 Josep Broz Tito - Yugoslavian Townie
17 gonnano Janos Kadar - Soviet Mafia Goon
12 XScorpion Leonid Brezhnev, Soviet Townie
5 Feysal Erich Honecker - Soviet Neighbour
14 Scott Brosius J Edgar Hoover - US Mafia Jailkeeper
7 LynchMePls Nikita Kruschev - Sovier Watcher
19 Stephoscope Andrei Gromyko - Soviet Mafia Rolecop
Town (dead): RB, Odd-vig, blacklister, neighbor, watcher, 5 VT
Town (alive): even-vig, neighbor, 2 VT
Scum Soviet (dead): Rolecop, Goon, Goon
Scum Soviet (alive): ??
Scum American (dead): Jailkeeper
Scum American (alive): ??, ??, ??I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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The Fonz wrote:Enigma wrote:
Also, Fonz are you thinking there is still one more Soviet scum left?
It would surprise me if it were not the case. 18-3-3 with the Soviet scum not having any kind of RBing or protective roles, given the existence of odd and even night vigs (harder to take out than a single full vig) doesn't seem balanced.
Full player/nationality claim list:
Americans:
ThAdmiral
Enigma
Other Free World:
Beasts of the Sea - French
Smargaret - West German
Soviets:
Bvoigt
Lowell
Furcolow
PeregrineV
Other Communist:
Myself - Polish
Sathoris - Albanian
So, based on my prior posts and your prior posts, we should be hanging both ThAd and Enigma, and Beasts. Scott was US, ThAd & Enigma are US, and Beasts is the US version of the Vietnamese mafia. smargaret would be the West German town neighbor ot he East german Town Feysal.
Then, after those three are dead, we can kill the last of me/Lowell/Furcolow/Bvoight. You know, as the last soviet scum.
Ummm...not buying it.
But if you still do, vote Beasts and get him off of the list now.
P-edit: Posting this anyway, but will respond to your response next.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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PeregrineV Survivor
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The Fonz wrote:PeregrineV wrote:The Fonz wrote:Enigma wrote:
Also, Fonz are you thinking there is still one more Soviet scum left?
It would surprise me if it were not the case. 18-3-3 with the Soviet scum not having any kind of RBing or protective roles, given the existence of odd and even night vigs (harder to take out than a single full vig) doesn't seem balanced.
If you wouldn't mind, your town/scum reads since you believe there to be 3 American scum and 1 Soviet scum left.
Well, I explained in quite a bit of detail precisely where I think the mafia are hiding. But since you asked, for the sake of clarity:
1 Beasts of the Sea - neutral to leaning scum - much more likely to be American if scum, mostly based on nationality claim rather than actual play
4 Enigma - Probably scum, definitely American if scum
6 PeregrineV - Scummy and could belong to either faction
8 ThAdmiral - Townish - can't entirely rule out American scum, but would require multiple scummier people to be town, not Soviet Scum
10 Furcolow - Possibly soviet scum, don't see as American, believe he has claimed his actual rolename either way
11 Lowell - town
13 smargaret - Scum, American
18 bvoigt - town
22 The Fonz - Confirmed town to myself
24 Sathoris - neutral to leaning town
You have too many town:
Town (alive): even-vig, neighbor, 2 VT
If neighbor is wrong (according to The Fonz), then we are instead looking at 3 vanilla. If you are one, and not the vig, there are 2 vanilla+1 vig+TheFonz.
So,the remaining town is Sathoris, The Fonz, bvoight and Lowell?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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The Fonz wrote:For ThAd and Enigma to both be scum, you're requiring the following:
1)An American mafioso with a different nationality to have claimed American
or
2) The Americans to have only one 'foreign' team member as opposed to two (with one Soviet mafioso still outstanding, but I'd expect that role to be actually Soviet- seems a bit weird to have a Soviet mafia with only one Soviet in it) for the Soviets.
I don't think that's particularly likely. I'm not even going to think about lynching ThAdmiral unless and until Enigma comes up town.
Actually, #1 is your scenario. 4 man scum teams are either 3 main + satellite or 2 main +2 satellite.
If it is 2+2, then you or Sathoris are the remaining soviet scum (becuase soviets already have 2 dead soviets+1 vietnam).
If it it 3+1, then ThAd and Enigma must both hang (for being American, then we hang Beasts or smarg, as the +1)
As a matter of fact, I do think an American is hiding under a Soviet nationality. I could be wrong, but I'm going to look at the US+satellite and Soviet+satellite breakdown next.
I am also on the 18-3-3 belief. It makes more sense.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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The Fonz wrote:PeregrineV wrote:The Fonz wrote:For ThAd and Enigma to both be scum, you're requiring the following:
1)An American mafioso with a different nationality to have claimed American
or
2) The Americans to have only one 'foreign' team member as opposed to two (with one Soviet mafioso still outstanding, but I'd expect that role to be actually Soviet- seems a bit weird to have a Soviet mafia with only one Soviet in it) for the Soviets.
I don't think that's particularly likely. I'm not even going to think about lynching ThAdmiral unless and until Enigma comes up town.
Actually, #1 is your scenario. 4 man scum teams are either 3 main + satellite or 2 main +2 satellite.
WHAT? How is number one my scenario? You're just not making sense here. How can you claim they are 'either 3 main + satellite or 2 main + 2 satellite' whenwe've already seen two Soviet satellite flips?
PV wrote:If it is 2+2, then you or Sathoris are the remaining soviet scum (becuase soviets already have 2 dead soviets+1 vietnam).
No. We've seen soviet mafia, hungarian soviet mafia, and vietnamese soviet mafia. Two satellite and one soviet.
If it it 3+1, then ThAd and Enigma must both hang (for being American, then we hang Beasts or smarg, as the +1)
Except that if it's 3 +1, it's perfectly possible that one of the American mafiosi claimed to be something else, and one of the claimed Americans is truthful. That said, I think it's more likely 2+2.
As a matter of fact, I do think an American is hiding under a Soviet nationality. I could be wrong, but I'm going to look at the US+satellite and Soviet+satellite breakdown next.
That's actually a brilliant point. There are 14 claimed Communist world roles including the dead, both town and scum flips. There are only ten claimed Free world.
I am also on the 18-3-3 belief. It makes more sense.
It really doesn't.
There is only 2 soviet + 1 satellite flip. If you can re-respond to the post that caused this reponse after reviewing the OP, I would appreciate it.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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The Fonz wrote:Actually, Peregrine's brilliant point about US vs Satellites has massive implications, I think. Including that, if the numbers are balanced, we know exactly where the Americans are hiding. It would mean that one of me and Sathoris would have to be scum (hint: him) and that there was precisely one American hiding in the claimed Soviets.
The one thing that gives me pause about this is, although my role isfroman Eastern bloc country, he's very much not pro-Soviet. And Yugoslavia, although Communist, wasn't behind the Iron Curtain. Hmmm.
The Fonz wrote:
1 Beasts of the Sea - neutral to leaning scum - much more likely to be American if scum, mostly based on nationality claim rather than actual play
4 Enigma - Probably scum, definitely American if scum
6 PeregrineV - Scummy and could belong to either faction
8 ThAdmiral - Townish - can't entirely rule out American scum, but would require multiple scummier people to be town, not Soviet Scum
10 Furcolow - Possibly soviet scum, don't see as American, believe he has claimed his actual rolename either way
11 Lowell - town
13 smargaret - Scum, American
18 bvoigt - town
22 The Fonz - Confirmed town to myself
24 Sathoris - neutral to leaning town
Just want to point out that it is somewhat contradictory to have Sathoris be the scum and not be. And in your scenario (assuming 3+1), one of you is.
Or, maybe there is only 3 on each mafia team?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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The Fonz wrote:PeregrineV wrote:
There is only 2 soviet + 1 satellite flip. If you can re-respond to the post that caused this reponse after reviewing the OP, I would appreciate it.
No. YOU re-view the OP, because it is clear there are two satellite and one soviet flip.
Please copy and paste this link into the thread, and I will be happy to discuss it with you.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p2742520
PeregrineV wrote:
Just want to point out that it is somewhat contradictory to have Sathoris be the scum and not be. And in your scenario (assuming 3+1), one of you is.
The Fonz wrote:
Yes, they contradict each other. You know why? BECAUSE I CHANGED MY MIND BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT UP A POINT I HADN'T THOUGHT OF. When new evidence arises, I reconsider my positions. What do you do?
OK, that's what I'm trying to do- present evidence based on available data.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Sotty7 wrote:Cold War Mafia
A deeply flawed historical mafia event.
Location: A undisclosed location
Time: An unspecific point during the cold war
Somewhere and somewhen somebody decided to end this game of thermonuclear chicken. Twenty four figures of varying importance who may or may not have even lived at the same time are somehow brought together to find a peaceful solution to a diplomatic conflict that threatens to possibly begin to consume countless lives. Not everyone wants peace though. Amongst your number are individuals who would rather see this cold war turn hot. Maybe they stand to profit from open conflict, maybe they think it's the only way for their way of life to continue or maybe they're just bored. If these talks are ever going to succeed you must band together and expunge yourselves of these agitators. Expunge them with bullets, ropes, lead pipes, or candlesticks if that's all you have handy. First war, then peace. Then punch and pie.
Players:
Still Standing:
1 Beasts of the Sea
4(EGL)Enigma
6(DavidParker)PeregrineV
8 ThAdmiral
10 Furcolow
11 Lowell
13 smargaret
18 bvoigt
22(jmj3000) (mothrax)The Fonz
24 Sathrois
Six Feet Under:
15.(julienvonwolfe)bunnyloverwas lynched on Day one. He was was.Che Guevara - Cuban Roleblocker
3RedCoyotewas poisoned on night one. He wasJohn Glenn, US Odd-Night Vigilante.
20LlamaFluffwas assassinated on night one. He wasJohn F Kennedy, US Townie
23(Ghostwriter)hohumwas removed from the bunker on night one. He wasHarold Wilson, British Townie
16(PoisonIvy)Amrunwas lynched on day two. She wasJoseph McCarthy - US Blacklister
2(themanhimself) (InflatablePie)Debonair Danny DiPietrowas poisoned on night 2. He wasEdward R Murrow - US Townie
9(Artem)VP Baltarwas assassinated night two. He wasHo Chi Minh - Vietnamese Soviet Mafia Goon
21nachomma8was removed from the bunker on night two. He wasJosep Broz Tito - Yugoslavian Townie
17gonnanowas lynched on day three. He wasJanos Kadar - Soviet Mafia Goon
12XScorpionwas assassinated night three. He wasLeonid Brezhnev, Soviet Townie
5(pappums rat)Feysalwas lynched on day four. He wasErich Honecker - Soviet Neighbour
14Scott Brosiuswas poisoned on night night four. He wasJ Edgar Hoover - US Mafia Jailkeeper
7LynchMePlswas assassinated on night four. He wasNikita Kruschev - Sovier Watcher
19Stephoscopewas removed from the bunker on night four. He wasAndrei Gromyko - Soviet Mafia Rolecop
Back up mod:
Andrius
For posterity and discussion.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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Sorry about that. My argument is really based on posted information, not history.
9 (Artem) VP Baltar was assassinated night two. He was Ho Chi Minh -Vietnamese SovietMafia Goon
17 gonnano was lynched on day three. He was Janos Kadar -SovietMafia Goon
19 Stephoscope was removed from the bunker on night four. He was Andrei Gromyko -SovietMafia Rolecop
So all of my posts are referring to 2 Soviet and 1 satellite (Vietnamese). If you ignore that premise, that it doesn't really matter what I say, does it?I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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The Fonz wrote:What the scum's actual rolenames are are irrelevant. If you were named, say, Margaret Thatcher, American Mafia Goon, are you going to claim to be American or British? Janos Kadar was from a satellite state, which is what matters. Both claimed Americans have claimed actual US citizens.
gonnano did claim Hungarian. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2908572
I'm pointing out that for our anlaysis of nationality, he is not listed by the mod as Hungarian, he is listed only as Soviet.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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PeregrineV wrote:If there are only 2 left:
15 bunnylover Che Guevara - Cuban Roleblocker.
3 RedCoyote John Glenn, US Odd-Night Vigilante.
20 LlamaFluff John F Kennedy, US Townie
23 hohum Harold Wilson, British Townie
16 Amrun Joseph McCarthy - US Blacklister
2 Debonair Danny DiPietro Edward R Murrow - US Townie
9 VP Baltar Ho Chi Minh - Vietnamese Soviet Mafia Goon
21 nachomma8 Josep Broz Tito - Yugoslavian Townie
17 gonnano Janos Kadar - Soviet Mafia Goon
12 XScorpion Leonid Brezhnev, Soviet Townie
5 Feysal Erich Honecker - Soviet Neighbour
14 Scott Brosius J Edgar Hoover - US Mafia Jailkeeper
7 LynchMePls Nikita Kruschev - Sovier Watcher
19 Stephoscope Andrei Gromyko - Soviet Mafia Rolecop
Town (dead): RB, Odd-vig, blacklister, neighbor, watcher, 5 VT
Town (alive): even-vig, neighbor, 6 VT
Scum Soviet (dead): Rolecop, Goon, Goon
Scum American (dead): Jailkeeper
Scum American (alive): ??, ??
So, going with 2 left, this doesn't make sense. That would give the US two non-vanilla roles.
Scum American (dead): Jailkeeper
Scum American (alive): Neighbor, Goon
For symmetry, I'm going withEast German Town Neighbor Feysal and West German Town Neighbor smargaret. So, yeah, despite the glob of posts about her scumminess, I'm putting her in the town column.I will haveLimited Accesson weekends.-
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