Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Not voting Quadz at the moment. Reads coming in a bit. Setup stuff first.
So I read POWERFUL WIZARDS. There was no domain claiming in it (though it only had one wizard per domain, and some people without domains, so, differences.)
I think domain claiming is a bad idea at the moment, for two reasons, one obvious and one not-so-obvious:
1) The scum. A scumgroup of N players almost certainly had N-1 of them worship a domain utilized by the last one, who will be casting some effect tonight. That's just about set in stone, and domain claiming neither helps nor hurts with that.
However, the scum group are incentivized to kill off people who do not share a scum domain, since the worship of these people is less likely to ever help the scum. That is, if your domains are Justice and Will, and no scum has either of these domains, domain claiming makes you a more likely target.
2) Tarhalindur. Being a Vi game, there's a Tarhalindur role out there, and I'm 99.9% that it will be significantly advantaged by having a massclaim of domains -- either because it has to eliminate everyone of a certain domain(s), or it wins if everyone alive has a certain domain(s), or something along those lines.
So instead of massclaiming domains, I would recommend that everyone name what domain they'd like worshipped. Which gives us nearly the same information for our purposes (what should I worship if I think X is town?), but hinders someone who needs to know what everyone's domains are.-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Nicki Minaj wrote:Um...yes? Because every player in this game should be a high priest of a Scummer, as opposed to the Scummer himself?
What would you say if I told you that wasn't true?
Town
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Gammagooey is town. I brook no dissent. Everything that Gamma has done has oozed town to me.
Faraday is town...ish. Good thought processes, but won't really solidify until we've had a few flips.
AlmasterGM is town. Don't care what hitogoroshi says. Really don't care what duplicity says. Agree with ooba/Gamma that the right play would've been to wait to see how people's reads solidified and then say, "Oh, yeah, we can lynch mothrax for free," but still disbelieve Almaster-scum.
ooba is town for #103.
Scum
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Quadz. Don't like quadz. Apparently, this feeling is shared, which makes me like quadz more. Enough to not vote him now. So it goes. Nothing personal against you, Faraday. =P
Parama. I don't like either of Parama's posts. I don't like someone who votes and then unvotes and then votes in the same post; has the feel of someone wanting to be careless and stream-of-consciousness without actually being either.
VOTE: Parama
Plum's #59 is spot-on about my feelings about Nicki Minaj as well, but I'm curiously null on Plum.
VasudeVa wrote:
Besides, how many people here were in MoCo? Do you honestly believe that we shouldn't be getting rid of mothrax, the guy who never voted for scum and was on all Town mislynches? Can any of the other MoCo players who are against this give me a reason why we aren't taking advantage of AGM's claim to keep mothrax alive?
Chances are high that mothrax will be lynched today. But I see no reason to hurry the process along when the game's been open less than 24 hours.
@Almaster:Will this lynch reset the battery?-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Equinox wrote:Also, this isn't a Night 0 vig, so don't say that it is.
Assuming AlmasterGM is telling the truth, which I am currently doing, it *is* a Night 0 vig *that requires the consent of the town*. That is *exactly* what it is. In fact, it's even *better* because we get to see mothrax's play before we decide to go through with it or not.
Equinox wrote:All right, instead of talking about why mothrax is such a good policy lynch, how about we talk about the players in the last 6 pages? After all, lynching scum > policy lynching, any day.
Absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing this. Seeing as there's only one vote that I can see on mothrax at the moment, this reads as fantastically defensive. *You're* the one drawing the topic back to Almaster/mothrax.
Equinox wrote:Magua wrote:Chances are high that mothrax will be lynched today.
What?
Did I stutter?-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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hitogoroshi wrote:Magua: Agree/Disagree with this statement: "When we discover which Domain has the most Worshippers tonight, we should take care to never Worship that domain again."
Agree. (I reserve the right to modify this depending on what information we get when someone flips.)
However, you should not rule out the idea that the scum have access to every domain to begin with.
hitogoroshi wrote:
I was trying to trick Sotty into inventing flavor when, looking at the sample, there probably wasn't any. It almost seems like that happened, but the subsequent explanation about the passive ability "Trollspeak" makes sense.
One of the following two is true:
1) Scum are given roles such that they can claim the role with some of its abilities (and their flavor) straight from their PM and pass for town, or
2) Scum are given mod-provided fakeclaims with mod-provided fakeclaim flavor.
So, I wouldn't be looking for flavor slips.
Parama wrote:Your case on me: lol I voted twice in the same post
Uh okay.
That's not a case. I'll just put you on my "to-be-ignored-all-game" list now.
Again, defensiveness trying to be passed off as casual. Liking my vote more.
@Equinox:Your opinion on Parama, please.-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Parama wrote:
pedit: it's that you're trying to make everyone suspicious of me for something that is LEGITIMATELY not suspicious and that you KNOW is not suspicious. You're asking Equi, arbitrarily, to make your case for you.
Equinox said he wanted to talk about the players who were posting. I obliged.
Parama wrote:pedit II: and look, Equi did the smart thing and said "I'm not makin yo case fo ya, foo!"
No, what he said is, "No comment."
hitogoroshi wrote:
Between them they might, sure, but it's likely they're all worshipping the domain of their best PR.
Yes. That's why I agreed with you. =P
@Parama:Is hitogoroshi part of my-and-VV's scumteam?-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Miller/neighborizer discussion is boring and useless.
@VP, Sotty:Your opinion on Parama, please.-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Nicki Minaj wrote:Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic
Please clarify for me if there's a typo here.
VasudeVa wrote:@People who have called Faraday Town: Why?
Sincerity.-
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ooba wrote:I do not think we should mass-claiming domains now. However, I think the possibility of mass-claiming if you worshiped N0 and what you worshiped should be considered.
Pro:
- Locks people into claims. We can compare with Faith results on N1 and narrow down if anybody lied.
Con:
- Scum might get an idea of people with power roles\good casts if they claim "Not worshipped on N0"
I'm leaning towards the info beating out the possible disadvantage.
Off the cuff, I don't think we get too much out of this.
Scenario 1: Three people claim to have worshipped Will, but Will turns out to have five faith tonight. Are any of these three people scum?
Scenario 2: Five people claim to have worshipped Will, but Will turns out to have four faith tonight. Obviously, one of those five is lying. However, the chance of lynching that 1/5 is less than a general lynch, all things considered, and there's no guarantee that the other four are clear.
In exchange, the scum know they're shooting someone who's casting tonight.
You *do* get a win in clearing groups of people if it's truthful -- three people claim Will, Will has three faith -- assuming that the scum went for a "everyone but one person worships the same domain" plan. How much of a win that is depends on how many people did not worship last night -- the more who didn't worship, the less win you get.
I don't think it's a good idea for D1.
VasudeVa wrote:He's refusing to back his vote up with reasoning. How is that 'sincere'?
How is it not?-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Nicki Minaj wrote:Magua wrote:Nicki Minaj wrote:Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic
Please clarify for me if there's a typo here.
No typos. Mina asked Vi pre-game what we'd get on Chaotic Evil and she refused to tell us, if that's what you're wondering.
Yes.
Or what would happen if you targetted someone who was neither Chaotic nor Evil?
This ability is just so whacky I cannot help but believe it is legit.-
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Magua Jack of All Trades
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Nobody Special wrote:
Bear with me for a bit: Suppose in one hand, I'm holding an apple, and in the other, an orange. Got it so far? Good.
Now, I show you the apple, and I say, "This is an apple. And it's good." Now, when I show you the orange, I tell you "This apple is better, though, because it has Vitamin C!"
This is precisely what you're saying. You're trying, albeit cleverly, to twist the game circumstances for (I assume) your own purposes. Stop it.
Look. I don't care about your semantics. Town can lynch mothrax for free today. The only question worth asking is, "Is mothrax a good lynch?"
Q1. Given the opportunity, would you vig a player N0?
Q2. Do you think mothrax is town?-
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Nobody Special wrote:Just throwing this out there: What if AGM is lying?
Then he gets lynched D2, and that would be win.
Now, the two questions for you NS:
Q1. Would you vig someone N0?
Q2. Do you think mothrax is town?
Duplicity wrote:Paramas arrogance and rage is a town-tell, Magua you should know better than to vote him here.
If you think my vote is scum-motivated, feel free to vote me. Otherwise, my vote goes where I damn well please.
Parama can do tunneling and arrogant. Parama does this in Consulmaker II, so I'm familiar with that. (Parama spent pretty much the entirety of the game tunneling on a single town.) I'm not familiar with Parama-scum play, but, then again, my vote isn't on Parama for meta-reasons to begin with.-
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Nobody Special wrote:1) If I were 1-shot, no. If I were unlimited, yes.
Great. So assume that AlmasterGM N0 vigged mothrax, except, now, the town has to agree or it didn't happen.-
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Yes, it is one-shot, yes, it is today only. That changes nothing of what I said.
Assume that AlmasterGM N0 vigged mothrax, except, now, the town has to agree or it didn't happen.
Does town agree? Mothrax is dead, costing us nothing. Just like if Almaster vigged him N0.
Does town not agree? Nothing happens.-
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<_<
>_>
Faraday wrote:Also mothrax is town so it's irrelevant.
Do you think this because VasudeVa thinks he should be lynched, or for some other reason?-
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Nobody Special wrote:So, Magua, what are you asking me? If I agree? No, I think it's too early to tell mothrax's alignment.
Not asking you anything. You say it's different. I show how the end result is the same. End of story, really, as far as I'm concerned.
But the more I think about it, the more I think that Faraday is right about mothrax.
So...now, in the spirit of ASOS being over:
Dayvig: Parama
He'll flip scum, and I can get confirmed as town for the rest of the game. Plan is flawless.-
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Duplicity wrote:Magua, I don't think your vote is scum-motivated merely misguided. Can you elaborate into what makes you believe Parama is mafia? Also, what's your read on Hito?
See little point in talking about Parama now until the flip.
Hito is a lot of setup speculation (which is fine, I enjoy it). I don't like his Almaster-is-scum stance, and I find cognitive dissonance between "Almaster's power is horribad for town" and his first post being "Let's policy lynch Nobody Special." However, I do like his calling Faraday town and his calling Parama scum.
So leaning town. If Parama flips scum, much more town.-
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Duplicity wrote:I thought that was a reaction-test by you, christ why would you waste the dayvig shot this early into the day.
No point in reactiontesting someone like Parama, or, likely, anyone in this room. No, I took the shot because I'm tired of overthinking my gut reads.
Faraday wrote:Magua's kill was very real. He'll have to post like a mute from now on sadly.
*doesn't think that's true at all*
*just needs to put asterisks around everything*
*also*
*spreads hands wide*-
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Gammagooey wrote:gassssssssssssp.
I was gonna ask you about why Duplicity-scum but PoE-wise it makes sense.
PoE-wise? Seriously?
There's 22 players left. In the neighborhood of 5-6 scum.
Does that not seem a *wee* bit early to be invoking PoE as an explanation?-
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Faraday wrote:Lot of very likely town players at this stage, I think.
You have 12+ townreads? Care to list them for me, in one easily ISO-able place like your next post?-
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Faraday wrote:Magua/Equinox/DDD are weaker town reads.
I'm shooting scum. That should be a much larger towntell.
But, I like you. And not just for your accent this time.-
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Faraday wrote:Shooting scum is a scumtell. You were lynched for it and Hascow was scum. OUTPLAYED.
Good game, sir. Good game.
Parama wrote:He didn't shoot scum so <.<
He didn't shoot so >.>
*snores*-
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Parama wrote:
My logic:
1. Magua is scum
2. Scum wouldn't have a public daykill
3. Magua doesn't have a public daykill
4. Magua didn't shoot
In case scum does somehow have a public daykill, please take out magua, quadz, and vv, in that order. Thanks
So, and I want to make sure that this is understood, after you're dead, everyone should find #2 to be more likely to be false than #1?-
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Nicki Minaj wrote:
You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.
I had actually sent Vi a PM about this this morning; have not gotten a response yet. Is this your reading, or is it verified somehow?
If it's the case that it's just a faith total, there's still a workable plan, the details of which should be obvious to hito but which shouldn't be made public until D2 to keep the scum from planning ahead. Assuming hito isn't scum, which I'm still doing.
@Parama:k, just verifying. I'm actually getting to the point where I'm not regretting you dying even if you flip town.-
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Unrelated: You know how town Faraday thinks mothrax is? That's how town I think Nicki Minaj is.-
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Nicki Minaj wrote:We PM'd Vi about it in pre-game. That was the response.
If the workable plan involves everyone claiming faith and domains and interpolating the faith for each domain that way, it's not a very good plan.
Given the 19-20 data points (players) we'll have over an average number of variables (domains) of 2, I disagree. I think it's a very good plan. *Especially* if scum lie.
But we can argue about that D2.-
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Nicki Minaj wrote:While you're here, what do you think of Duplicity's case on VPB?
I actually agree with his case on VPB; if I had to vote between VPB and Duplicity, I would certainly vote VPB at this point.
I definitely don't see the case as terribad as you do.
Distancing-Duplicity-scum voting VPBaltar-scum-partner also sort of implies VasudeVa-town. Do you believe that?-
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VP Baltar wrote:Which parts of it do you think are good?
Your push on quadz:
VP Baltar wrote:He really seems to be slow at loosening up here...though I admittedly have no experience with him. Does he always play defensively like this when he's town?
This reads as, "Here's scummy thing X...though I'll waffle about whether X means he's scum or not. I end by asking a question that I could answer myself if I cared enough to look."
VP Baltar wrote:Sottyrulez claiming miller is blah to me. Decent chance they are town, but they really need to be after the scum and get NKed for me to feel completely safe with that claim.
This is the same thing. This actually says nothing. Is "need[ing] to be after the scum" only something that millers should be doing? No, obviously not. This says the claim doesn't change your read on Sotty at all, but you don't give a read on Sotty or Sotty's posts. You just take this roundabout and kind of dirt-throwing way of saying Sotty is null.
You ask DDD if he thinks there should be a mass domain claim even though you soon follow that up with the fact that you think it's probably a good idea in #138. (This also includes a "I could look it up but I'm not going to"-type question.)
A bunch of fluffy posts. Yes, you could be sussing out Magna's alignment, or you could just be padding. I can't see the difference, and lacking any results one way or the other, I'm leaning the latter.
Of your reads, I agree on Gamma-town. I (obviously) disagree on Parama-town. I vacillate on Quadz-scum. And that's about the extent of your reads. Which is a problem, you having 28 posts and all.
In SA II, you were a big town leader and not scared of anything. Here you're playing your cards decidedly closer to your chest.-
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VP Baltar wrote:In case you think it's not clear, I think it's very likely quadz is scum (dont' see how I've waivered on that at all).
It's *my* scumread on quadz that vacillates.
VP Baltar wrote:Hence why my vote hasn't moved. I find the points you're making kind of ludicrous to say the least. The sotty point is confusing at best...I'm stating I'm suspicious of their miller claim, but I will of course not judge them based on that alone. What's wrong wtih that again?
It's the difference between saying "Sotty's miller claim is null" and "Sotty is probably town but I'm not going to trust them until they're NKed (implying that I may lynch them if they're not)"
VP Baltar wrote:Similarly, why shouldn't I ask DDD his opinion on domain strategy? He's a good strategist and I wanted to see what his response was.
Because you don't voice your opinion, you ask him his, and when he gives it, you *then* voice your opinion that disagrees. The whole exchange feels like you already had an answer in mind you wanted to head towards, not that were actually soliciting someone's opinion.
VP Baltar wrote:Additionally, I could see several people in this game that your same argument would apply to (though maybe they have fewer posts), so why does that specifically make me scum?
Two things.
1: This is the scummiest defense ever. "Why me and not that other guy." I'm really surprised to see it from you.
2: You asked why I thought *you* were scummy. I answered with what I found scummy about *you*. Other people don't enter into that conversation.-
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VP Baltar wrote:re:quadz - you said I was waffling, which isn't true.
I said *I* was waffling on quadz. Reread. You waffle on whether the first thing you call him out on is scummy (exact quote: "He really seems to be slow at loosening up here...though I admittedly have no experience with him"), but you never waffle with your vote on him.
VP Baltar wrote:
meh. I think dup's case is fucking awful for how generic and fluffy it is. You follow up his case with somewhat unrelated matters that are equally fluffy. The reason I say it could apply to anyone is because it could. I'm asking why you think it's stand out for me. Is it just because I was a leader in SAII? I think that's pretty limited meta to say the least. I think other people can certainly enter the equation when you're being that generic in your scumhunting.
Do you think Duplicity is scum?
Do you think I'm scum?
Nobody Special wrote:How/why are you so sure? Share with the class.
Assume that AlmasterGM is lying about it being a double day if mothrax is lynched.
Assume that mothrax is lynched.
Almaster is now shown to be lying. What's going to happen?
He's going to be lynched the next day. What will he have gained? He'll have traded himself in a 1:1 trade for mothrax. Is that a good scum move? No, it is not. So the only rational move is to assume that the person isn't lying, because if they're lying, then they have made things worse for themselves, regardless of their alignment.
It's like claiming that you're a super-saint in lylo. You're just guaranteeing that you get lynched.-
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Real quick: Nicki is right (of course); just got the response from Vi that we only get faith totals, not domain totals.
This makes things more difficult, but that discussion is D2.
Disagree with hitogoroshi on worships. You should worship. Worshipping is likely to help 3-4 town (including yourself), and 1 scum. The key is that we want to spread the worships around.
Night actions seems simple:
If you didn't worship N0, use whatever faith you get to cast something. By "something" I would say "protections on Nicki Minaj" followed by "information" followed by "whatever".
If you did worship N0, or you don't have enough faith to cast *anything*, you should worship. If your total faith is 3 or less, worship one of your own domains. If your total faith is 4+, you are best off worshipping one of your non-domains, and if your total faith is 6+, you're best off worshipping the opposite of one of your domains (this is under the assumption that no one has a domain and its opposite).
I agree with Nicki that the scum probably have every domain covered, but probably do not stack on domains. Therefore, our goal is to spread out the worship as much as possible -- that helps the town the most and helps the scum the least. Working from the assumption that the domains are already kind of spread out, its best to stick to your own domains -- the assumption here being the case where it's obvious that scum are worshipping your domain (that is, your faith level is 3 or above).
The day-kill is sadly fake, as Parama (and Gammagooey, and likely Faraday and Nicki and hitogoroshi) already surmised. Parama's reactions, frankly, leave a lot to be desired out of the whole thing. Not the "let me do stuff while I'm alive," more the "Wait and see if I should bother." Poor test is poor, but it amused me, and in the end, that's what counts. I'm keeping my vote on Parama.
Faraday's right on mothrax, I think. We should not use the PL on him. And I swear to the skies above, Nicki Minaj is town.-
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Parama wrote:but also a DGB who gets some ridiculous bonus from making a fake daykill gambit, because we all know DGB loves those.
I did enjoy it, yes. I will likely do it again.
Maybe even during this Day.
@Parama:Is hitogoroshi scum? What about Plum?-
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Faraday wrote:i;ll do shit asked of me when i sober up. you're all fucking annoying me. quadz should be dead.
We're not lynching quadz until mothrax has either posted some actual content or been replaced.
Also, either singersigner's scum game is to look three times as town as her town game, or she's town. I feel the latter.-
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@Gammagooey, Faraday, Demonic Angel:Kindly shut the fuck up if you have nothing of use to say.
Thanks in advance.
(I still <3 you all. But, no, seriously. Stop.)-
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@Quadz:I'm interested in your thought process throughout these three posts of yours:
quadz08 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3023795#p3023795]#499[/url] wrote:
Yes, seriously. I have null reads on all 3 of them [Parama, VasudeVa, Plum], actually. Nothing real scummy, nothing real townie. No reason for me to waste space bringing them up.
quadz08 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3024154#p3024154]#588[/url] wrote:
btw, I would approve of a Parama lynch based on VI/anti-town-ness. See: Parama's most recent post.
quadz08 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3024502#p3024502]#633[/url] wrote:
As to Parama, his reaction to the vig thing was, well, null. Honestly, his reaction was how any intelligent player, town or scum, should react.
If you find Parama's vig-response to be null, what is it you do find about his play to be antitown?
What was it that Parama did that made you move him from null to antitown?-
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I want to wait for Quadz's answers about my questions on Parama, but I'll hijack this to say that here:
RayFrost wrote:People that are scum but not nearly as clearly obvious ubar scum as the above: singer, nicki minaj
You are dead wrong. Both of these are town. Please stop being wrong in the future.-
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We shouldn't be claiming worships. With three kills, the possibility of being able to narrow down a liar to within three people is reduced, any confirmed non-liar group we can get at this point is probably just going to get gunned down tonight.
Besides, since I'm assuming most town worshipped N0 and N1, this will be the first night they can cast something, and so they probably will. I doubt there'll be a lot of worshipping going on tonight besides the mafia, which removes the other side of the claiming, so people know what they should be worshipping.
I'll reread Equinox and Duplicity later; Duplicity in particular I find to be a weird kill, because he was firmly in the middle of the pack yesterday in terms of being suspected. Nicki Minaj's kill flavor is odd, especially with them flipping as Vi, but I'm willing to wait till D3 to see if it repeats itself or if it was one-off.
In the meantime, Faraday is still town. Gammagooey is still town.-
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Faraday wrote:Quadz is a scum neighbourisers. Discussion over.
No.
Not even possible.
Scum either worshipped N0 or did nothing in preparation to cast.
Scum who worshipped N0 had to worship N1, could not cast.
Scum who didn't worship have something much better to do than cast neighborize.
So:
1) singersigner is scum with quadz (unlikely)
2) quadz cast neighborize, which means he didn't cast something that was actually useful for the scum
3) quadz has neighborizer as an ability, not a cast, which is, I suppose, the only way he could still be scum
singersigner: Is your neighbor QT daytalk?
Actually, quadz should just fullclaim in the thread now. N0 and N1 actions, full role abilities, etc.-
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If he's talking to you in the QT, tell him he needs to post in this thread.-
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Gamma: You need to stop with the hyperventilation. Seriously. Now, riddle me this: is singersigner town or scum?-
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hitogoroshi wrote:Magua, DDD:Agree or disagree with this statement: "A player with over 3 faith N1 who worships one or both of Justice or Balance should claim their domains and N1 faith."
Erm. Are you trying to tell if Justice/Balance got juiced by scum? Because of ooba's claim?
I think a better way to go about that is, seeing as he's already claimed his domains, we should ask him:@ooba:How much faith did you have N1?-
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Doublepost: Scum almost certainly have daytalk because the neighbors have daytalk, and VPB's #681 is almost certainly a scumslip.
VOTE: VP Baltar-
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VP Baltar wrote:Magua wrote:Doublepost: Scum almost certainly have daytalk because the neighbors have daytalk, and VPB's #681 is almost certainly a scumslip.
So I say scum probably have daytalk, which was pointed out in the rules, and you say I'm scum because I said that. This is probably the first dumb thing I've ever heard you say Magua. Congrats.
You say they *do* have daytalk, which is *not* pointed out in the rules. In addition to that, when it's pointed out that it's not in the rules, your reaction isn't "Vi games always have daytalk", it's "Vi games always have daytalk and I would never make such a mistake and you're being an idiot."
It's that last part that seals it.
So, anyways, I'm really not liking the quadz lynch. It's too many people just repeatedly saying "quadz is scum" over and over and any argument is responded to with "quadz is still scum".
That said, I'm not sure I like the DA wagon at this point any better. I'm getting flashbacks to MoCO here, with the scum just pushing after the weaker players and town not bothering to try to differentiate scummy behavior from actual scum behavior.
Claiming of worships/domains is bad. However,@ooba, you've already claimed your domains. So claim your N1 faith, please. Don't need actions, don't need anything else, just want the faith total.-
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sottyrulez wrote:DA's slip is basically in the same camp as VP's. Why is VP's scummier?
I don't see a DA slip. Are you referring to this:
Demonic Angel wrote:@AGM: He's busy raging in our QT about CYS.
Assumed that was some form of hydra QT when I read it.
If you meant something else, you need to show it to me.
sottyrulez wrote:Quadz is scum because he's done nothing and that was also his reasoning for going after DDD. (so now he can look like he is doing something.) The only thing that makes going after him today different from d1 is that he has a nice shiny looking roleclaim with action to throw in to make people waiver on lynching him.
Quadz-scum had much better targets to try to deflect to than DDD. Quadz's attempt on DDD does read as deflection (it's all "lynch him not me") but I do get the feeling that his suspicion on DDD is at least sincere.-
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Demonic Angel wrote:"
Exact role name is High Priest/Priestess of Zorblag.
"
Vi was a High Priest/Ess due to his gender ambiguity. TROLL?
High Priest/Priestess is because it's a hydra with a male and a female. As was Nicki Minaj.
Fate. Put the caps lock away and shut up if you don't have anything useful to say. I will replace out if you can't. kthxbai.-
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Demonic Angel wrote:HERE I"LL HELP YOU BY POSTING IN ALL CAPS.
NOW GO AND HOP ON THIS TRAIN DAY FUCKCING TWO, AND SAY 'POLICY' SO YOU CAN SHOW EVERYONE YOUR TRUE COLORS. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MORE ANTI-TOWN THAT ANYTHING IVE DONE, INCLUDING A FAKE MASON CLAIM, YOU FUCKTARD. HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME? REPLACE OUT. NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO, SO MAYBE YOURE THE ONE THAT DOESNT PLAY WITH OTHERS.
NOW COME AT ME
This contains nothing useful.
Demonic Angel wrote:ARE YOU SAYING I HAD NOTHING USEFUL AT ALL IN MY LAST POST?
HURRR DURRRR
GUESS YOU NEED TO REPLACE OUT THEN. PLENTY ON THE LIST WAITING TO HAVE FUN WHO DONT HAVE A STICK UP THEIR ASS
I'm saying the part I quoted where you go caps lock bullshit had nothing useful. In fact, every single thing you've posted in all caps has had nothing useful. You should go back and reread what I said, because I do not think it is what you think it is.
And, now, realize that I play this game to have fun, and you running around calling people fucktards is not my idea of fun.-
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VP Baltar wrote:Hey Magua, why is it that you have nothing to say about the quadz claim even though you called for it? I'd like your assessment of his abilities please.
You missed post #743 then. I believe his claim. I don't think he makes sense as scum to have used a neighborizer power.-
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AlmasterGM wrote:It makes sense when you are scum neighborizer and neighborize is your ability.
No, it doesn't. If you're doomed scum who is going to get lynched the next day, it's better to worship one of your scumbuddies' domains so that they can do stuff than to neighborize someone who's hardly a leading voice in the town.
THe only possibilities I see are:
1) Quadz is town and did what he said, that is, he neighborized singersigner, or
2) Quadz and singersigner are mafia together
2 does not seem likely.-
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Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Can anyone tell me anything about Magua as a player? Like is he a lot better known than I think he is because I had never seen his name mentioned before this game; has he played in any/several Vi games before? Any sort of information along those lines would be appreciated.
I'm terrible. I only got into this game because Vi confused my name when I /in'ed with Magna's.
My games are on my wiki page -- the only other Vi game I've played was Mafia of the Chosen Ones
ooba wrote:Magua, were you neighbors with Hito?
No. I'm not neighbors with anyone.
Fun fact the second: So I was wrong on the quadz-lynch-being-pushed-by-opportunistic scum. I was right that there's no way that quadz-scum would neighborize someone instead of doing something more productive with his time, like killing.
Looking over quadz's claim, I don't think the casts were faked; I think those were actually what he had available. Note that the kill is conditional -- it only works on Good players. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the scum kills are like that -- only usable on those of a certain alignment, who worship a certain domain, or who satisfy certain conditions (like Scumputer and the being-last-on-the-wagon). For reference, I have a kill-cast that's non-conditional -- I use it and the target dies. I think that's going to be one of the main differentiators between scum and town.
However, for the time being, this leads me to believe that massclaiming anything at this point is a bad idea.
Despite that, I'd like VP Baltar to claim his N2 action.-
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VP Baltar wrote:Um, why exactly?
Because I want to see if you're going to lie about it.-
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ooba wrote:Split scum teams is an incentive to neighborize people you think are other scum.. Your thoughts on that theory?
Split scum teams is doubtful. First, in the other Vi games with split scum teams, the teams were differentiated (Shadow Demons and Dark Demons, eg).
Second, how do you imagine that conversation goes? "Hi, neighbor! Um, this is kind of awkward, but...I'm scum. So...um...are you scum too?"
No, my guess is that quadz worshipped both nights.
VP Baltar wrote:Implying you know my night action. Which, if you actually do have an insight into any potential action I took last night ( who I targeted, what action I used etc.) I'm unsure of why you're asking me to claim.
Sorry, that's not entirely clear. If you have insight, you should know I'm town is what i"m saying.
Then why don't you let everyone else know how town you are too?-
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VP Baltar wrote:Frankly, I don't think you have the sway to bully night actions. So, I suggest you give me a better reason than that brosef. How's about this, since you apparently do know my night action last night, give me a reason why you doubt it was a town action. If I think it's a legit doubt, I will claim my night action last night. Deal?
I prefer my plan where you claim your night action, so I can tell if you're lying about it or not. I like that element of tension.-
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VP Baltar wrote:Additionally, I hope you realize that if I claim, you damn well better be prepared to full claim as well.
I don't want you to fullclaim. I want you to claim last night's action only. Not your casts, not your domains, not your alignment.-
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VP Baltar wrote:Potentially putting a target on my back for a NK
Stop it, you're turning me on.-
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VP Baltar wrote:Like I said, get some town cred son, then get back to me.
VOTE: VP Baltar-
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sottyrulez wrote:If there was a busser on Quadz, my money is on Demonic.
Also... WHERE THE HELL ARE THE PLUM VOTES? Like... srsly.
Assuming there are six tigers, there's definitively a busser on quadz. Likely two.
But I don't think it's Demonic Angel. DA reads too town to me.
End of D1 votecount:
quadz08(L-2) ~mothrax, Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Seraphim,Gammagooey, Katsuki, Faraday,singersigner, Parama, ooba
Parama (L-9) ~ Magua,hitogoroshi, Plum
VasudeVa(L-10) ~ MagnaofIllusion, sottyrulez
VP Baltar (L-10) ~Duplicity,Nicki Minaj
mothrax(L-11) ~ AlmasterGM
MagnaofIllusion (L-11) ~VasudeVa
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-11) ~quadz08
Demonic Angel (L-11) ~ RayFrost
Not Voting: Nobody Special,Equinox
End of D2 votecount:
quadz08(LYNCH) ~ VP Baltar, Parama, ooba, sottyrulez, Faraday, Demonic Angel,Gammagooey, Seraphim, AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro
Demonic Angel (L-8) ~ RayFrost, MagnaofIllusion
Parama (L-8) ~ Plum,hitogoroshi
VP Baltar (L-9) ~ Magua,quadz08
Not Voting: Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nobody Special,singersigner,VasudeVa
The three flipped scum have spread out votes, usual for D1. I do not expect that there's more than one scum on any wagon except for quadz's.
I actually have a townread on Plum that I didn't have before the quadz flip, heavily influenced by #929 and by the hitogoroshi/Plum proximity in the votes. I think it's pretty obvious that singersigner claimed to have daytalking neighbor with quadz because the scum do, indeed, have daytalk, it makes it unlikely that anyone who came out and attacked the *claim first* rather than quadz's behavior would be a partner.
In between the D1 and D2 quadz wagons, the differences are minimal -- mothrax dies, singersigner drops off the D2 wagon and is replaced by sottyrulez. Obviously, I suspect VP Baltar to be simply hardcore bussing. Second after that would be ooba or Seraphim, but those are more PoE than actual scumreads at this point.
I would expect there to be one scum in (RayFrost, MagnaofIllusion). I lean in favor of RayFrost being the scum.
Pedit:
Massclaim is bad at this point. The only claims I want to see today are:
1) VP Baltar's night action
2) People saying what domain (*not* domains) they want worshipped so that we can worship the domains of our townreads.
sottyrulez wrote:
Oh, and I probably didn't say it explicitly enough, but I really don't see VP bussing quadz.
Why not?-
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sottyrulez wrote:Call it a gut feeling coupled with the fact that there seemed to be a lot more interest in VP's "slip" than in yours and it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy about your slot.
Good news is if you're actually town, it's possible we'll run out of scum to lynch long before we get to a point of actually wanting to lynch you.
Illuminate me about DA's slip.
sottyrulez wrote:The method and style of his play in the way he went after quadz seems consistent from what I expect from VP town. Also he had plenty of opportunities to leave the wagon... and no matter how hard someone might bus as scum, in a roleclaim who's entire purpose is to seed doubt, you would think that if there was multiple scum on the wagon, one of them might unvote to fuel doubt in the town. So, I really don't see it. (Should actually bump Demonic up my OTHERS list thinking about it.)
The only person who left the wagon was AlmasterGM, and I've got a pretty good townread on Almaster. I think it's more a matter of the scum on the wagon either deciding to bus it for all its worth, or, waiting to see if the wagon falls apart, rather than being the first one off of it.-
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sottyrulez wrote:As has been pointed out by a few others, I was referring to Demonic Angel's ISO 40.
Missed that. "Every other townray game"?
Mmmm. I completely read over it when I read it, reading the meaning as intended, I suppose. Odd slip for a scum to make -- DA is trying to say that RayFrost isn't playing like he normally does when he's town. Still think DA is town.
sottyrulez wrote:Look at this from my perspective.
You: Voting VP
Plum: Voting VP
Magna: Voting VP
You know what you all have in common? You were all opposed to the quadz wagon to some degree.
Yes. In fact, you could get all the people who weren't on quadz D2 and are still alive:
RayFrost
MagnaofIllusion
Plum
Magua
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Nobody Special
How many scum do you think are in this group? I mean, if no one was bussing quadz, then game is pretty much won, yes? Do you think that's the case?
However, singersigner doesn't strike me as the eager busser type, and singersigner was on quadz's lynch D1. I think that only occurs if SS is being told to do it, or is following previous bussers at a distance.-
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Seraphim wrote:I need to read through this some more, but I have a feeling that Magua vs VP is town-on-town and that Magua should bring up reasonable doubt before forcing VP to claim.
If you think I am town, then you have to conclude that I feel I have a reasonable reason to have VP claim.
Seraphim wrote:
Massclaim is a BAD IDEA right now. The only possible gain is attributing kills and in such a vig-heavy game, there is no need of that. The only thing I could see us claiming is domains or what domains should be worshiped tonight. Coordinating worships is going to become important later on. Also, I know there was a lot of talk about alignment on Day 1, in regards to Nicki's role...does anyone have any additional insight into that? I feel like it's important but it hasn't really been discussed.
Alignment claim is a terrible idea because it doesn't help town at all, and it is highly likely that a number of scum powers are alignment-conditional. Full domain claim is similarly a terrible idea. People should just say which domain or domains (preferably, single domain) they want people to worship.-
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Seraphim wrote:That's the thing: I don't trust you. Plus, if it is town-on-town, you've just outed yourself and VP. I think you need to outline your reasoning or at least vaguely hint at it or something.
If you don't trust me, it's hard to believe you find this to be town on town.
As for "outting myself", I have outted that I have a cast, that it is investigative in nature, that I used it on VPB, and that what I got back is incriminating.
Whoop-de-shit.
Obviously, my report is not 100% incriminating by itself, or I would've just outted it rather than asking. It is only incriminating if VPB's claim disagrees with it.
VP Baltar wrote:Meh, I think Magua is town out of the quadz backers, so I'd like to prob straighten out whatever BS he's confused about. Let me just be clear, by N2 you mean last night correct? Not the second night N1. The problem with me claiming is that you need to out yourself after because I'm not simply going to let you force a claim and not provide damn good reasoning as to why you requested it.
Yes. N2. Last night. Not N1.-
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VP Baltar wrote:I shot hitogoroshi last night. So that's 3/3 of my dead scum reads that have flipped scum. Again, don't see in any way how you think that makes me scum. Any other people out there with vig abilities should not claim, fyi.
Great. You agree with my report.
If you want it, I'll tell you what my report was.-
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