Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Greetings to everyone I know …. which is more or less everyone in the game.

Gamma, DDD and Rayfrost get individual salutations for being the only players I’ve never played a game with.

--

Unfortunately I think Katsuki is Town. I wanted her to be scum because she’s an easy catch but without Fate or LLD to mindlessly defend her there is no way as Scum she’d go out of her way to antagonize me with her ‘Random’ first vote.

Gamma is obv-Town.

I’m in support of a Mass Domain claim. IMO it will allow people to more carefully consider their worship choices based on their Dayplay reads.

AGM’s claim is a whole big bag of Null. Not choosing Nobody Special as obv-Policy Lynch is meh. If Mothrax plays Pants on Head scummy we use the free lynch to test AGM’s claim. Not an Alligence tell at all that I can see.

--

P-Edit: Miller claim is +townpoints for sottyrulez.

It should be at best Null dependent on Sottyrulez’s play.

What do you think of Gamma’s ‘delayed’ Miller claim?

--

Equinox is a gut scum read – the 39 to 41 exchange is terribly bad.

“Nicki is asking fluffly horrible questions” (while Nicki is under pressure)

Faraday – Are you scum Equinox?

“Oops, made a mistake. Nicki is Town, wagon Quadz instead”

Anyway... hitogoroshi, AlmasterGM does have a point. This is a silly power to give to scum; it's not like scum particularly benefit from double day.

Please explain who scum would not benefit from a free mislynch if Mothrax is Town. I’m dying to know. Because AGM hasn’t claimed anything that gives him insight into Mothrax’s alignment as his choice.

--

Why do you refer to this as 'theory speculation' given that it's an open question about mechanics, not a speculation (unless you mean to imply the speculation that alignment Evil = scum)???

Way too strained an effort to stratify the question’s basis when the premise (Evil may equal scum), at least form my point of view, may hold water.

Nothing in my role-PM makes any indication that Evil isn’t possible scum. Gamma’s late Miller claim combined with his claimed Alignment seems to support this. Scum points to Plum.

This is not a straight 'No' sort of answer to 'are you scum'. That is scumpoints right there.

What response would you expect? There is one obvious answer to that question regardless of the player’s true Allegience – “No I’m not”

Unless you are anticipating a Lie Detector (which in a game like this is certainly possible) it’s at best a Null question with scum-hunting upside.

--

What is this I don't even

Faraday is town for 45.

So Faraday is Town for voting Quadz, ostensibly because he is scum. Yet your vote isn’t on Quadz when you posted this and you didn’t change you vote. It instead is on Nobody Special, who had yet to post.

Yeah, that’s scumtastic. Damn, Nicki beat me to that observation.

And Hito’s response at 86 not impressive. I don’t buy at all the premise that “Is this a serious vote?” is a scum-tell. Sorry, seen it too many times from Town. Thus Faraday’s reaction to 44 isn’t obv-Town.

--

Um...yes? Because every player in this game should be a high priest of a Scummer, as opposed to the Scummer himself?

Mina dear if that is the case why would scum Zach not know that fact?

--

You have to think of things in terms of catchability as well. In Trader and Bomb, he was easyscum. If I have a free policy lynch D1, I'd much rather use it on the person who you can never read and doesn't contribute than the person who will soon reveal himself to be obvscum.

In this player list do you have any expectations that scum-NS will not lurk like a champ? Seriously – it doesn’t take much for him to settle into a nice little groove of doing nothing.

Also, even if mothrax wasn't NUMBER ONE choice, I'd still say he's at LEAST 2 or 3. So I don't see why we are complaining about a free lynch (remember, it's FREE).

1. Maybe because few people hold your personal feelings about Mothrax?
2. A free lynch is only good if it is likely to hit scum. Otherwise it only benefits scum. It's not like Mothrax is inherently bad on a Shotty / Furc level.

--

Well this is easy.

Vote: mothrax

I'll probably be voting for quadz after we're done with mothrax.
hito seems Town. Town hito is a wall posting baddy. Never seen a scum hito before so YMMV.

Scummy bad vote plus the rest of his post dedicated to saying nothing about Hito that’s effectively solid.

Into the scum pool with you.

--

I dont' really buy all the people going "policy lynch = ZOMG BAD"

Why? Policy lynches should be reserved for the Worst of the Worst. The Furculows and DrMyShotty’s of the world. Realistically the only player on the list even CLOSE to that stature is Nobody Special.

--

Paraphrased, our flavor with being a miller is that Troll speak effects the reading of our Allegiance.

Hmmm. I don’t see anything remotely flavor related in my Role PM. In light of the sample Miller PM not having flavor and Gamma’s statement I’m finding this suspect.

The flavor is a passive ability called Trollspeak, this ability returns allegiance investigations as mafia and no result to all other investigations. We also can not be neighborized due to this passive ability.

Not sure that a description of an ability should be classified as flavor. Sottyrulez allegiance needs further examination.

I do like the Plum vote ... hmmmmm.

--

TL : DR

– Equinox and VV are strongly leading the scum pack. Plum and Hito are in the pool. Need to see more from Sottyrulez.

VOTE: VV – Bandwagon away ….

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm not sure how the description of our passive ability Trollspeak doesn't look like flavor. You're picking on semantics and that's silly. We don't have lines and lines of flavor or anything. It's one line explaining to us we're a miller. Zorblag is known for Trollspeak, so it's a sprinkle of flavor.

Someone (Hito I think) asked what the flavor with our miller claim was. So.... I'm not seeing your problem here.

~Sotty

My issue is that you construed it as flavor. I don't see that at flavor at all. From your description the ability reads something like this.

Trollspeak - You will show as Mafia to any Allegience investigations. You cannot be Neigbhorized.

Doesn't make sense to me. Sorry if that confounds you.

That said you never answered Gamma's question (or if you did I missed it) regarding the Neighborize feature of you role. Can you clear that up or point me to a post number?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MAGUA VOTE QUADZ RIGHT NOW

Are you psychic and somehow know that Magua is on the forums? Because he hasn't posted yet.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, it wasn't clear in my read-through. Thanks.

[MagnaofIllusion]

]
Oh well, if you say it's so, then it must be true. Not really. Everyone is going to have their own opinions of what the "worst of the worst" is. Also, I find it ludicrous that you're jumping AGM because "policy lynches are reserved for scum"...well that kind of goes out the window when you have to pick N0, right? Eliminating a player he thinks won't be that helpful to gain a double day isn't a bad thing.

re: mass claiming domains - I just thought of a potential downside being some sort of scum ability that can negate worships.

1. Ah, condecending comments from VPB, how unexpected. Where exactly am I 'jumping' AGM? I find his call to be very Null. Explaining why the extra lynch his power provides might not be being met with universal acclaim isn't calling someone scum.
2. If said chosen Policy Lynch choice by AGM doesn't act scummy then using the ability isn't worthwhile to Town.
3. Are you speculating on a scum ability to prevent worships of players or whole Domains?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magua’s points about mass Domain claiming are noted. Given I have no Mod meta to fall back on I'll defer to those with Vi experience.

--

A mislynch is bad because of the nightkills/scumactions that follow, not because of the mislynch itself. Town is getting rid of someone they don't trust with the lynch and that is ALWAYS a good thing. If AGM is telling the truth, then there won't be nightkills for a not-bad lynch. I don't see why we shouldn't take advantage of this.

No, a mislynch is bad because you aren’t lynching scum. You are advocating lynching Mothrax simply because we get another lynch afterwards. If he’s not scum the better option is to not lynch him, keep an additional Town player around, and aim to lynch scum instead.

Besides, how many people here were in MoCo? Do you honestly believe that we shouldn't be getting rid of mothrax, the guy who never voted for scum and was on all Town mislynches? Can any of the other MoCo players who are against this give me a reason why we aren't taking advantage of AGM's claim to keep mothrax alive?

Oh so the crux of this is that a single game is a reason to get rid of him? Bad use of meta to defend a bad vote. You haven’t given one reason why you thin he is scum.

My vote stands.

--

I never said you called him scum. I said you were criticizing him over a legit play (which you were!). What else was he supposed to do with his ability? Hint: he had no choice but to pick someone he'd like dead. You saying 'well, gee, policy lynches are best used on people I don't like rather than people AGM doesn't like' doesn't negate that he had to make a choice and chose.

Sigh. I’m not saying that he shouldn’t have used his ability. I disagree with his target choice but that’s my opinion. I’m entitled to have it.

And as has been said by Gamma – a better use of that information would have to wait until Mothrax had play that might make the double lynch plausible as a Pro-Town move. As it is he’s popped up to say “Hey, let’s just use my bonus Day1 power to lynch Mothrax because we can”. Sometimes the most responsible use of a power is not to exercise it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now you're suggesting he shouldn't have used it at all? Ridiculous.

No. Don't be a moron. I'm suggesting that unless Mothrax is SCUMMY we don't exercise the Double Lynch power.

On the topic of pointlessly nitpicking ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do you have a reason to think he's Town?
I don't. I'm voting for him to find out. If mothrax shows Townieness, I'm off. If he doesn't, I'm continuing.

I don’t have any reason so far to think he’s scum. I’d rather Scum-hunt than Town-hunt with votes. Continue to ignore everything else going on trying to somehow justify your bad vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Sotty and Gamma

– I want to be clear … Sotty is claiming as part of her Miller claim she can’t be Neighborized but Gamma is claiming to have no such restrictions. Is this correct?

--

Hito, would you neighborize a claimed Miller?

Why wouldn’t you?

1. You are inherently claiming Town by claiming Miller. It gives the Neighborizor another ostensibly Town player to bounce ideas off.
2. If you are fake-claiming scum it is another way for said Neighborizor to detect such.

P-Edit - Bah, ninjaed by VPB.

--

Stretching crappy reasoning too far. ("Basicially just posted his role PM for us?") Also keenly aware that if Magua is lynched and I'm nk'd town is down on most of it's setup speculators in a fairly complex setup.

Hmmm .. not sure what to make of this. Why would you bother to specifically go out of your way to say this?

--

What exactly am I ignoring MoI?

Pretty much anything that doesn’t involve a lazy lynch just to lynch someone (Mothrax) and your Why Me routine.

What do you think about Parama and Magua?

--

Your case on me: lol I voted twice in the same post
Uh okay.
That's not a case. I'll just put you on my "to-be-ignored-all-game" list now.

Basically insultingly dismissive about early pressure that may not be the most logical? Check.

specifically, I hope you choke:
quadz
vv
magua

I don't care that VV has basically claimed scum. Magua basically just posted his role PM for us.

Followed by post 182 we have three direct assertions that VV is scum.

Yet no vote in-sight for VV, who has far more votes than Magua.

[MagnaofIllusion]

quadz + vv both need to die ASAP.

Parama is town.

Then vote VV ... it is the logical course of action at this time.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It is correct that I CAN be neighborized, whereas sotty sez they can not be.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, ignore legitimate questions and keep bullying those with shoddy wagons.

How in anyway is your wagon shoddy?

You vote for Mothrax is scummy has hell.
You are doing no scum-hunting and are exercising the old "Why Me" mentality.

[MagnaofIllusion]

He's refusing to back his vote up with reasoning. How is that 'sincere'?

Perhaps he's testing your reaction to assess you alliegence. That's totally valid, right?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also I'll be replacing out in the near future. But not now.

No, do it now. The sooner you have bowed out the sooner your replacement can be active and actually read the game.

lolol VV is scum, cute.

NEXT.

And yet you aren’t voting for him. Sigh.

Do it. Call for replacement early. It’s the Pro-Town thing to do.

--

Soo yeah, don't be hatin bro if your own BS case gets used against you.

1. You claim the case on you is crap.
2. You then say “Dudz, don’t hate when someone uses the exact same crap on you” to Parama.

If you were intellectually honest you would think that Magua, using the same tactics you decry in those pressing you, would be scum.

But you have a Town read on him.

Inconsistent and scummy.

You really got that Best Town performance with play like this?

Other than either propping up your ego what scum-hunting do you expect to achieve throwing crap like this?

Why is it scummy? I've said my reason: AGM targeted him with his policy lynch ability, and now I'm using my vote to get a read on mothrax and see if it's worth pursuing the lynch.

1. You pop in the thread and go “Weeeeee, policy lynch Mothrax” and comment on nothing else.
2. You are claiming to be getting a read on him with this vote. Yet you aren’t questioning him about his posts.
3. Unless prodded with a pointy stick you’ve more or less avoided actively doing any scum-hunting (yes … I said it again) or giving solid reads.
4. Your scum suspicions more or less revolve around those pressing you. You can’t even claim Newb status to hide behind that.

Actually, this is one of the reasons why I'm voting for mothrax. I haven't explicitly said it, but I did imply it when I was explaining the vote. Why does he get a free pass and I don't?

You obviously missed the sarcasm.

Faraday didn’t make his first post and vote saying “Herp, Policy lynch”. You did. Continue to pretend that your votes are analogous though.

Furthermore your vote languishes on Mothrax while you’ve actively called others scummy. Faraday is at least moving his votes around to players he’s calling scum.

One shows Pro-Town intentions. One doesn’t. Can you figure out which is which?

--

@Nicki

– What do you think of VV?

--

i don't vv because magua is scummier the end bye

So there is something scummier than directly claiming scum in thread. Relational tell regarding VV noted.

--

He didn't really seem to comment much on what was going on and was concerned with being called scum. That's what I mean.

What do you think of VV?

--

@ooba

– I see you are also avoiding discussing any VV read. Your thoughts?

[MagnaofIllusion]

The person replacing into my slot isn't on the replacement list.

Oh, so you are replacing in a Hyrda that you are a part of. Blarg.

Since when did games consist of only a single scum?

No one has asserted it does. Why respond to a point with irreveant observations? Why does observations about you not voting someone you claim is scum cause you to react in that manner?

I don’t see you doing much other than “Vote Quadz” to show why he’s viable scum. No real Pro-Town reason to just park your vote if you aren’t going to press said player.

--

Can I ask for fewer walls please? Pretty please?

Request denied.

Moving on – since you are ready to christen VV as suck-Town who is scum? You’ve got 10 pages to find someone.

--

@Plum

– You response is noted. You can come out of my scum-pool for the time being.

Can't believe I didn't see that before, but yeah. THAT TOO.

So what does Parama’s unwillingness to vote VV say to you about both of their potential alignments?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll be re-reading the explosion that happened since my last post in light of the flips.

I still think VV is scum and after the initial read of Singer lean towards her as scum as well.

Those who pushed on Nicki early will need reviewed. And I want to look at Equinox to see where his suspicions lay. He's not what I would call a priority target based on reputation alone.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I just noticed that Day 2 started with Battery Power at only 50% .... hmmmmm

[MagnaofIllusion]

Catch-up from my last Post Day 1 until end of Day –

Nobody Special is Town. NS – don’t slink back into lurking Day 2.

VV basically lurked out any sort of pressure on him Day 1.

Katsuki’s (Demonic Angel) picking at Equinox (310) for giving flexible reads (and questioning what is scum-hunting) while not providing anything concrete her / themselves is scummy. Furthermore their fluffy, active lurking style the rest of the day earns them a scum-read for Kats’s history. Early Town read revoked.

VV had convienantly disappeaered from Sottyrulez radar as of 467. Interesting given in that post Sotty still has his vote on VV.

Town Reads

– Gamma, Faraday, Magua

Scum to Maybe Scum Reads

– VV, DemonicAngel, hito, Parama, VPB and Singer

Everyone else is in that meh-TwilightZone-Middle Ground currently.

--

@Duplicity

– Why I missing from your massive reads list at 341?

--

I’m not particularly enamored of Singer’s play in regards to Quadz. Excerpts below -

OMG, Equinox+quadz duo? Blatant buddying ftw! Oh wait, I forgot those aren't legitimate scum tells anymore. Or are they?
vote: Equinox

Chooses to vote Equinox over Quadz while calling them partners.

Right now, my read on him is scum, but I'd like to see him incriminate himself more, considering he'll lend well to finding his partners.

Why would you want to see him incriminate himself more? If she had a true “I can read Quadz like a book” scum read I don’t see her not voting him.

Her next post posits she’s feels likely to “end up going back to my policy on NS”.

His next post clearly doesn't want quadz dead, and I have a pretty strong scum-read on quadz, which doesn't make me feel to great about MoI.

From 338 – she still does not have a Quadz vote at this juncture so I find this suspicious as hell. She finally votes at 342 when she gets to VPB’s prompting.

--

What do you think of VV?

If you're comparing him to quadz, quadz is far worse. I don't have a strong read on VV either way at this point. He does tend to OMGUS a lot, so that's not really a surprise.

Looks very much to me like dodging giving any sort of solid read on VV. If Quadz ends up Town VPB rockets to the top of my scum chart.

I want to know why singer isn't voting quadz...the person she can read like a book and thinks is scum

A good question … which is never followed up on that I can see. Distancing perhaps?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dave's

Duplicity's not here, man.

God damn it ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Speaking of which...why aren't you voting quadz MoI? KILLKILLKILLKILL

Because I'm not enthused at all of the circumstances we are in.

Quadz is the OBV-lynch and surprise suprise we have a short day which raises the already strong likelyhood he takes the rope.

Throw in the fact that many of the people who I have scum to maybe scum reads are pushing him and I'm a big ball of meh.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I smell set-up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1. Twists my case on Equinox into scumtell (and blatantly twists what my case was as well).
2. Labels posts as fluff even when they're not.

1. Your ‘case’ was that Equinox was scum for saying he needed to re-read certain players and leaving himself ‘room to move’. Aside from the fact that Equinox was Town that was a crappy case to begin with. It’s scummy because your ISO is littered with lack of solid opinions.
2. I’d like you to direct me to the non-fluff posts in Kats / DA’s ISO. Then I’ll provide a list of pure fluff in both and we can talk.

--

EBWOP: and by town I mean, think he has done anything to indicate that he's town. I get that you're claiming he's town because of said Conspiracy!

1. I’ve looked at Quadz’s ISO. His push on Nicki is bad. I disagree that saying “Was that a Serious Vote” is a scum-tell. Sorry, it’s not. And saying “he responded like scum to pressure” also isn’t a solid, convincing case, IMO. I see both SO often from Town. Furthermore when he makes his return his vote and top scum read is DDD. He could have gone for either Parama or VV if he really wanted to have a chance at building a counter-wagon (unless both are partners of his … which is possible I suppose). Doesn’t read as scumtastic play to me. Overall he doesn’t earn a lock-down scum read from me.
2. I like how you are once again going to the Condescending VPB playbook. Makes me more and more happy about my read on you each time you do it. Feel free to completely

@VPB

– Do you think it likely VV is scum with Quadz given how the main counterwagon to Quadz early was VV?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ray’s 810 on Demonic Angel’s scum-slip is fantastic.

--

First, you can't stockpile Faith. Checked with Vi on N0 on that one.

This is something I haven’t considered at all.

@MOD – can you confirm this to be accurate?

--

hito is either White Knighting or protecting his buddy. He's not town.

Agreed.

--

Like the last time I was this sure about a scumread they claimed fucking a pr and escaped too. (Hito in court) Not happening twice.

Um wasn’t Hito put up to fake-claiming Andrius’s Vig role by DGB and Andrius – two Town players – in that game? If so this argument isn’t exactly valid.

--

I actually would've aimed at Minaj (naive on chaotic strongly implies a lawful cop) as scumquadz but regardless.

Sorry that makes no sense. A Lawful character would make more sense being Paranoid about Chaotics. If anything I'd say it makes NM more likely to be Chaotic Good.

--

Dear god Quadz’s claim is bad.

1. 5 casts with no active normal ability other than worship, making him a Doc and half Jailkeeping / Neighborizing / Double Modified Vig / Hider.
2. Claims Chaotic Evil.
3. Neighborized Singer instead of JKing the claimed Cop.

I look at my role PM and don’t see that claim as very consistent.

I’m about to go into a WIFOM spiral trying to decide if Quadz is crafty enough to make a blatantly bad claim on purpose so everyone can say “No scum would make a claim that bad”

I find a scum with two discreet abilities to kill outside of factional kills (and both abilities being restricted in some fashion) hard to swallow. But perhaps they are tacked on for just that reason.

--

And even if you think I'm being condescending, I"m not quite sure how that's anything but a null tell regardless.

Your play in SAIII was full of that brand of attitude. I noted it (and properly identified you as likely scum) and filed it away for a later date.

Tada, this is said later date. I fully acknowledge it is a very small sample size. But that’s not going to dissuade me from going with my gut on the issue.

In fact, I just kind of realized you were gone from this game after May 5 even though you were posting quite regularly elsewhere on May 6, 7 and 8. What's up with that? Townie quadz is getting run up by all your scum reads and you have nothing to really say about it?

So you just realized because I’ve suddenly called you scummy. How convienant. It’s like you decided to go looking for anything you thought you could twist into a scumtell. But I’ll address you inference because I don’t really fear scrutiny.

My last post in the thread Day 1 was May 5th.

On May 6th I posted in a my other games which were at more pressing stages. In all those games I noted I would be V/LA for the weekend. I also posted in my own Modded game and very quick posts in non-game threads. I ran out of time at 2:50pm Friday as I was doing my typical long catch-up post due to a work emergency and had to abandon my work.

On May 7th I posted from my phone 5 times throughout the day. I have limited computer time during the weekend. I can’t prepare a full post with quotes from it.

On May 8th Vi made the decision to lock the thread at 7:50am. Which is before any of my posts that Day. So much for all my May 8th posting you attempted to pass of as suspect.

But to go to the heart of you argument - are you assessing that I wasn’t pushing strongly for my main target (VV) in my posts Day 1 and was just letting Town Quadz get run up by lurking? I just want to be sure my understanding of your point is accurate. If so that’s a rather sad case VPB.

@VPB

– You’ve completely brushed off the notion (as Conspiracy) that the Battery life of 50% isn’t the result of a scum power. I want you to directly address whether you believe that to be true or not.

--

Did Duplicity have it right when he said {Quadz,Hito,Plum,VPB} - Not sure about VPB but the other three seem bang on ..

I find myself agreeing with this post, albeit not thinking of Quadz as scum. I also want to go check who has been tossing out the ‘Duplicity is obv Vig shot’ arguments later today.

--

1. Equi essentially posted a list of nulls, saying that she needed to re-read, without any town/scum reads in her entire post. How is that a crappy case, and how is posting a list of players saying they are null, with no other reads, not scummy?

So although he has plenty of other posts where he gave clear indication of players he found scummy not being sure of a some player’s alignments is a scum-tell?

That’s quite ridiculous. The case is crappy because Day 1 no Town player should be absolutely certain of everyone’s alignment. Re-reading is a common Town practice. It’s like you are scum reaching to justify their words. Oh wait, that’s exactly what you are …

Furthermore, how is my ISO littered with lack of solid opinions. You are spewing utter bullshit.

It’s pretty apparent. Players can ISO you for themselves. The fact that you don’t bother to cite where you have solid opininos and just call it bullshit is telling.

Teehee I love playing with MOIscum.

Nice fake casualness. I know for a fact you HATE playing with Town MoI as Scum. LOTR … I can bring it up and direct link it if necessary. I also find it funny, just like that you only have come to the conclusion I am scum after I called you out. You ignored me when I gave you an early pass. But when I reverse that to a scum-read? Suddenly I’m obv-scum.

Fate hasn't read the game, plain and simple.

I'm not posting again until he posts then. Arguing with scum tires me. I'll leave casebuilding to him.

Casebuilding … Fate?

This post basically says “I’m under too much pressure that I can’t handle so I’m going to step away and let Fate come in and CAPSLAWK as usual. People mindlessly let him get away with murder when he does that”

VOTE: Demonic Angel

VV is still scum but is using the low battery threshold to lurk out the day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@VPB – You’ve completely brushed off the notion (as Conspiracy) that the Battery life of 50% isn’t the result of a scum power. I want you to directly address whether you believe that to be true or not.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions with very little evidence.

You know what this is? A lot of not answering a simple question.

YES or NO

- do you think that the reduced battery life is the result of a Scum power?

I obviously think it is. Even if it has nothing to do with making the obv Quadz lynch a certainty I can't possibly conceive it is a Town power. Furthermore my impression of Vi is not that of a capricous bastard Mod doing things on a whim (aka ReaperCharlie).

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't think it was a whim. And I stand by what I said about you making assumptions. You have no idea what benefit, if any, was given to scum or town by reducing the battery. I don't believe it's a conspiracy to get quadz lynched however cause he's scum.

So you don't believe it was Mod driven.

Thus it is either Town or Scum driven.

You wish to play the "You have No Idea What Benefit Town Gets" card. That's fine. You are correct. I can't see any possible advantage to halving Day 2's lenght based on general common sense, the results of Night that I can see and my role PM.

If someone Town wishes to step forward and claim the short battery was the result of their actions they can. Until that time, based on what I know I am going to assume it is Scum driven.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also - just had a thought, I think each town domains will be composed of one domain in the first list and one in the second list because if town boosts a particular townie - say me (Justice + Balance) then both teams benefit to some extent, instead of it being lopsided

My role PM shows this theory to be false, as constructed. So either your break-out of domains is faulty or the theory itself doesn’t hold water.

--

You say they *do* have daytalk, which is *not* pointed out in the rules. In addition to that, when it's pointed out that it's not in the rules, your reaction isn't "Vi games always have daytalk", it's "Vi games always have daytalk and I would never make such a mistake and you're being an idiot."

A nice succient summary of VPB’s Daytalk statement and retraction.

Fate. Put the caps lock away and shut up if you don't have anything useful to say. I will replace out if you can't. kthxbai.

No, you are not allowed to follow this course of action. The proper response is either Bullets or Rope for DA for Fate. Hell, that slot is scum anyway so it shouldn’t matter if he is being regular-style Fate douche.

--

And just on cue here's Fate to pointless spam the thread to obsfucate for his poor little Kats.

Really? This isn't the newbie queue, scum don't SLIP by calling people "town" or saying "other townray games" or shit like that. That's a mere synatic argument that townies are just as able to slip as scum. ACTUAL scum"slips" in games with playerlists like this are shown in the ATTITUDE of a Player's posting, as in, over MULTIPLE posts a player showing that they know the other is town.

Veterans do slip in manners such as that. Your attempt to say it only happens in the Newbie queue is noted and dismissed. Look up Ythill, a very accomplished player by any accounts, showing how he slipped in Naruto Mafia. I know you know it since you played in it. And that’s just a recent example I pulled off the top of my head.

Kats specifically said – “look at this game in comparison to

OTHER

TownRay games”. I’ve highlighted the slip part for you.

She also has a suspect list, full reads in the qt, the whole shebang. No shit I'm biased because I have the same role PM, but ANY OF YOU who has played with Katsuki as scum knows she is not scum this game, and ANY OF YOU who have played with her as town should know she's actually doing pretty goddamn well this game.

Funny said suspect list and full QT reads don’t appear anywhere in her ISO. You know what Katsuki pays much more attention to her QT than to the thread as far as content? Scum-Kats.

Your meta evidence that Kats-Town is easy to read is so bad its’ not funny.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Typical Fate empty rhetoric ...

Yep, continue to type up large swatchs of empty phrases in hopes as usual that ALL CAPS and volume make up for your lack of anything resembling logical play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also click the link in my last post

Oh look, I've cherry picked a quote from a game that supports my case!!

And then I want to apply it to people not even in said game.

Sad sad sad scum Fate / Kats.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If both Demon and I think MOI is scum, I'm pretty sure we're right about it.

Lulz. Kats you are wrong about me being scum more than you are right.

Prison Mafia - Wrong
LOTR Mafia - Wrong, but understandable since you were defensive scum.
Seinfeld Mafia - Wrong yet again

Liten - Right

Am I forgetting other games where you called me scum? I don't recall you doing so in Blackest Night. But you died pretty early.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Prison mafia doesn't even count. That was my first ever game of mafia. I called almost everyone scum in that game.

THE KEY HERE IS, YOU ARE USING OTHER GAMES AS A MEANS TO TRY AND DEPICT WHY I AM WRONG ABOUT YOU IN THIS GAME. YOU ARE RELYING ON OTHER GAMES TO TRY AND UNDERMINE MY CASE ON YOU BASED ON YOUR PLAY IN

THIS GAME

, BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

You don't get to discount a game just because it was your first HERE. You certainly had a history with IdiotKing from other sites.

You are the one who keeps bringing up how accurately you and Fate can read me. You don't get to shout "THOSE ARE OTHER GAMES" when I show you that your statements are hyperbole.

By the by Fate's record with correctly reading me is likewise flawed.

But keep clinging to "If Fate and I agree he's scum he must be scum".

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well I’m definitely needing to re-read after that Night of flips.

Yeah I never voted for Quadz. I was wrong. I was also wrong about lazy VV but right about SS and hito were scum.

All that remains on my list from yesterday are DA, VPB and Parama.

General question to players

– Does everyone think that scum are generally benefitted more by large Faith cast than Town is? And in the case of three downed scum is it still true if so?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do you mean faith claim or what? I don't understand the question.

No, I'm asking if Scum are more likely to be in a better position to take advantage of large faith casts (3 or greater) due to their coordination than Tow, generally.

And if you think that is the case do you think this still holds with 3 scum down?

[MagnaofIllusion]

lol, you fucking mad? I was pushing quadz lynch since the game started.

Let’s examine this statement, shall we.

Day 1 play of VPB regarding Quadz

–

Votes for Quadz in ISO 0 (first post). Read that post. He devotes much more attention to Nicki Minaj than Quadz. His ‘main reason’ that bugged him about quadz was his defensiveness. Specifically asks “Does he always play defensively like this when he’s town?”

Yet he drops the vote on quadz.

His next direct mention of quadz is ISO 13. Before then his ISO contains discussion with me and Sotty, questioning AGM about his ‘Policy Lynch’, calling obv-Town Gamma Town. In ISO 13 he answers Faraday’s question seeking to clarify his question about quadz in ISO 0 and then says he’ll stop posting “for the sake of the Town”.

Next direct mention is ISO 16 where he wants to know why Singer isn’t voting quadz. Here is said ISO -

I want to know why singer isn't voting quadz...the person she can read like a book and thinks is scum

Very, very soft suggestion that Singer is scummy for this.

Next mention of quadz is ISO 29 where he answers an accusation from quadz saying that he (VPB) was not waffling.

Day ends at ISO 30. Read for yourself but his entire Day 1 isn’t pushing quadz. He dropped a vote on him and mentioned him at all the rest of the Day. No pressure at all.

Day 2 play of VPB regarding Quadz

–

Votes Quadz immediately Day 2 calling him obv-scum. This is a stark contrast to his Day 1 play. If anything it looks like an over-reaction to Mothrax’s modkill which cut Day 1 short before VPB could establish ‘cred’ for his quadz vote by expressing actual suspicion.

re:quadz - a fairly explicit case was laid out by Seraphim yesterday, but I really don't see how anyone can not see pretty much everything he posts as scummy. From his obsessive self defense to that horribad "case" he made on DDD...give me a break.

Note the piggy-backing on Seraphim’s case as a way to avoid the fact he didn’t push quadz at all. Also smells completely of pre-knowledge that quadz was scum. Aka bussing.

He then proceeds to call out others regarding their play regarding quadz before a confirmed flip.

re: quadz - if you felt that strongly about his wagon, you certainly didn't seem to be doing a lot to try to stop it yesterday.

I wanted to highlight this snippet from ISO 48. Note that he’s attacking me for not defending quadz strongly Day 1. Yet despite his Day 2 “Quadz is Obv-scum” stance his ISO shows he did absolutely nothing to push quadz Day1. Inconsistency.

He does have a small interaction with quadz at ISO 51 but mostly spends his time questioning others about their quadz intereactions as opposed to strongly pushing the lynch.

TL – DR

: This is hardly “strong pushing” of quadz. He dropped a vote on him Day 1 and left it there with no quadz interaction. Came out Day 2 saying quadz was obv-scum and has been wanting to ride that position since.

I fucking called singer out for her avoidance of the wagon. I called hito as scum since a long time ago. I guess I have to lynch the entire team to be town. You're crazy. I like you, but you're crazy.

I’ve already quoted your ‘call out’ of Singer from ISO 16. It’s about as soft a call-out as you can get. Let’s look at your other quotes surrounding Singer and hito –

Well, he hasn't posted anything else, so her reads have no reason to change...or not be voting.

This is in regards to Singer not voting quadz. Again, no mention that she is scummy. Just soft positioning.

If parama flips scum, hito should be lynched next probs.

Says hito should be lynched IF Parama flips scum. More soft suspicion that he can back away from the minute Parama flips Town.

I think hito and Plum look pretty damn scummy and I'd be willing to lynch them after quadz is dead. Signer I'm up in the air on because I kind of feel like she is paying lip service to the quadz wagon after it got serious backing.

Says hito is scum and he would lynch him. Note the soft position on Signer. Now think about the upcoming Neighborizor claim regarding quadz.

Also with singer, I didn't like how hard she was trying to discredit people calling mothrax town.

More soft positioning. He doesn’t call her scummy for it … just says he doesn’t like it. Perfect language to move of it (“I said I didn’t like not that she was scummy”) if things move away from Singer-as-scum but to point to and say “I was suspicious” if she ever flips.

Anyhow, re: hito - his play is pretty empty so far other than some rambly strategy talk that made little sense, a weird push on AGM that turned into backing off later and avoidance of lynching quadz, who is scum.

Most solid suspicion of either hito or Singer thus far.

Has a solid interaction with hito at ISO 51 and 52.

Why is signer posting without voting?

Again another very open statement that can be used to go either way if he needs to attack Singer or absolve her.

TL - DR:

The hito suspicion looks much more credible than the Singer suspicion. The words scummy or scum never appear in any of VPB's statements on Singer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m going to have to re-read Plum. And I want to re-read Katsuki / DA in context of all three flipped scum. My gut now is to vote VPB.

[MagnaofIllusion]

lol, well that basically confirms you as scum right there. You of all people should be hailing me as town right now since I fucking pwned you yesterday. You're not this dumb.

Unvote, Vote:MoI

Yeah, that's what I expected. No mention of me as scum today until you "MoI or VV" is scum statement is brought up.

Nothing to say at all about the content of my post showing you hardly pressed at all on Quadz or Singer.

Just a "LULZ HE'S SCUMZ FOR SUSPECTING ME".

Not a Town reaction.

I'll still be doing me re-reads as I just stated because that's what Town does.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI - idgaf if you like my vote or not.

You are scum for a bullshit push on me.

See, what scum don't realize 99% of the time is that even if you see people saying "hurr der, I'm suspicious of VPB" there isn't a realistic chance of my wagon happening when I'm town.

I nailed three fucking scum to the wall in two days.

But you saw a few people mention my name in unkindly ways because they're not thinking and you thought 'oh hey, here's my chance at a mislynch that isn't my buddy Plum and/or Ray'

Like I said, if you were town, you'd be apologizing to me after you got your ass handed to you on the quadz issue yesterday.

Instead you bit at what you thought was a potential wagon and outted yourself.

Now you'll try to wall and demand reasoning for your lynch.

Not gonna happen brotha, so I'd save my breath if I was you.

I’ve bolded all the parts of for easy reference.

1st Bold – Rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric. If you could actually show that my post was bullshit you would. Instead you just call it that and keep repeating it. When you don’t have the facts on your side just keep repeating the lie and hope people believe it. It’s called an Appeal to Repetition.

2nd Bold – Nope you didn’t. That post shows exactly why you didn’t but are scrambling to claim Town cred.

3rd Bold – Classic scum attack. Town has every reason to be wrong about not reading someone as Scum. It’s called being part of the Uniformed Majority. I didn’t see quadz as scum. I was wrong. On the other hand I correctly called Singer and hito scum directly in several posts. As strongly as you did. But that fact you ignore because it conflicts with your “Lulz scumz wouldn’t bus so hard’ thing you are trying to run.

4th Bold – Preemptive argument – classic scum-tell. Town don’t have a reason to pre-emptively argue against actions that haven’t happened.

Whenever I flip and am shown not to be scum I hope everyone looks back at your reactions to pressure (Duplicity Day 1 and me now) and sees it for what it is – experienced scum hoping by screaming “You can’t lynch me and your case sucks”.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't really like his response to you admittedly though, but eh. it seems really weird to go through your post like that, just to try and discredit you though. am I missing something obvobvscum, cos fate/kats have called him scum too and they're obvtown, but I don't see it for the life of me.

1. Specifically what don’t you like about my presented opinions / response. Give me specifics (I know you love to!)
2. I’ve obvscum to VPB by suspecting him

--

@MoI - lol, keep posting bro. Still not reading it and my vote is still there.

Yep, if you can’t actually show how I’m wrong the best thing to do is put your head in the sand.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Plum ISO Review

–

As before I don’t like ISO 0. The attack on Minaj was suspect.

ISO 1 – I agree with her thinking on Mothrax in this post. Calls out Quadz on his vote on Hito which I’m not sure scum would be doing that early in the day.

ISO 6 – I like her call-out of Singer calling her obv-Town in this post. She has first-hand experience with scum jumping the gun on that sort of play (Morder Mafia).

Top scum: Parama, Singer, maybe sottyrulez; I haven't gotten up to writing about Kats/Demonic Angel but the vibes have been bad, so she's coming up in the proper reread section, too.

Sticks to her top scum read here when voting. The lead-up to listing Singer as scum is solid, IMO.

ISO 12 – Her thoughts on Quadz’s claim are solid. Unvotes Parama but doesn’t vote Quadz and doesn’t say why. Does some jousting with hito here.

Summary – Plum’s ISO doesn’t look like scum to me. She in multiple places is willing to admit she was incorrect on attacks or stances. The biggest knock against her that I can see is that she didn’t vote Quadz. I’m just as guilty of that ‘sin’ and I know I’m not scum motivated in that.

--

Kats / DA Review

–

Kats ISO

:

ISO 1 – Votes Quadz based on a read-through to page 4.

ISO 8 – Set-up speculation regarding the existence of a SK. Possible indication that she knows based on Mafia numbers that another anti-Town faction exists.

ISO 10 – Calls Singer Town.

ISO 16 – Calls Quadz a good lynch and hito an obv-buddy.

DA ISO

:

ISO 2 – Says vote is parked on scum (in Quadz)

ISO 8 – Response to Singer on being called out for the replacement process.

ISO 23 – Says it is impossible for Quadz to be Town.

ISO 37 – All Caps the Quadz lynch and mentions that a hito lynch should come afterwards.

ISO 38 – Calls for hito and Rayfrost Vigging

NOW, having CYS over with and done, and seeing Katsuki lurk to victory, can you POSSIBLY believe that Kats is scum here?

Yes I can, because I saw here active scum-play in Blackest Night. One game does not a rock-solid meta make.

THOUGH I don't see why scum would even have safe name-claims, unless there's obviously "scummy scummmers." I almost flattered myself into thinking High Priest/ess of Fate would be scum, <_< >_> but realize I'm likely not in this game nor would it not make sense to just real name-claim me if going for a miller fake.

Hmmm … have to think on this.

ISO 61 – Calls Quadz scum again and then Singer suspect for not seeing that, but places Singer in his ‘Town’ list this same post. Calls hito obv-scum.

ISO 65 – Again calls for a hito Vig.

Summary – Very similar ‘pattern’ to VPB on suspicions. I would say they push theirs much more than VPB. I can’t see multiple scum bussing in so similar a pattern so DA and VPB are not scum together.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I see DA has appeaered today to spam up the thread. Good work …

--

Potentially putting a target on my back for a NK, therefore I'd rather full claim if info is coming out.

If you were the bastion of Town play who nailed multiple scum Day 1 and Day 2 why wouldn’t you expect to be a NK target anyway?

VOTE: VPBaltar

After looking at Plum and DA you are my top candidate.

[MagnaofIllusion]

We're just sipping on our afternoon tea here while waiting for that rope around your neck.

You're not living past today.

That said Faraday, you really need to trust me on this one on MOI. I've played with MOIscum too ya know.

Yawn. All bark and not bite.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yep.

All that bark already netted two scum, and soon to be a third.

You aren’t voting for VPB and are voting me. Are you planning on netting him with a Night action?

--

MoI, if you really believe that one of VP/DA are scum, then you should vote for DA. The Vig can take care of NS post DA flip after he sees that I've been right on all my reads this game ..

I’m going with my gut here and it says VPB is clear scum. I don’t see your connection with NS as strong enough to override what I see.

VPB is just whining endlessly about how bad the case on him is because he knows he can’t refute it. That’s scumtastic play.

Also note how his “Plum is obv-scum” suddenly is no-where to be seen simply because he as attacked. He hopped on the plum train with no thought because it was the easy course of action and when he gets called to the carpet suddenly the vote wafts away with the breeze.

--

If there was a busser on Quadz, my money is on Demonic.

Also... WHERE THE HELL ARE THE PLUM VOTES? Like... srsly.

After looking at their ISOs I’d vote DA before Plum. VPB is the best vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, I agree about Plum too, but they are probably both scum and he'd be lulzy to lynch MoI today first so he had to eat his ego once again.

Scum-claim. Thanks!!!

ITT VP wants to lynch me not because I'm scum but for his ego gratification. Nice Town thought process ...

Oh wait, it's not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, and I probably didn't say it explicitly enough, but I really don't see VP bussing quadz.

You really need to look at the case I made then. VPB parked his vote Day 1 in his first post on Quadz and did NOTHING with it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

lol @ how pathetic MoI-scum is. Your biggest weak point as scum is how much you flip out when people don't buy your BS straight away. Just a future tip.

Rhetoric rhetoric rhetoric. It’s funny you post this because you have NEVER played with me as scum in any completed games.

Just a future tip – falling back on rhetoric, Appeals to Repetition and your condescending demeanor are your biggest Scum tells.

It gave you away in Stars Aligned 3 and is doing the same here.

--

If we are mass-claiming Domains we want worshipped I'm interested in Balance and Austerity worships.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The method and style of his play in the way he went after quadz seems consistent from what I expect from VP town.

You are going to have to expand on this because it makes no sense. Look at the following post and look at VPB’s ISO from Day 1 (0-30).

Specifically read the post where he drops his vote on Quadz. He doesn’t express any significant suspicion of Quadz at all … in fact he directly suggests plays by Nicki Minaj that are strongly scummy but comes to a null opinion on them. His sole concern for Quadz was “is he this defensive as Town?”.

Then read the rest of his ISO for Day 1. Count the times he calls Quadz scummy, questions him about his play or specific scum-tells, or tries to determine his alignment through analysis. You can use one hand because those events are non-existant.

If you can explain how this makes solid sense as Town scum-hunting as opposed to lazy bussing I’d like to know.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Night actions:
N0-worshipped one of my domains
N1- decreased the battery by 50%. I gained something from this and its my main thing I didn't want the scum to be able to claim if I'm dead. I didn't worry about doing it because I wanted quadz dead and there wasn't much discussion needed for that.
N2-shot hito as stated.

So based on this claim and subsequent information given you used you Battery decrease power N1 to give yourself 5 Faith N2 to cast your kill shot. So it is safe to assume your kill shot takes at least 3 Faith, correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Enlighten me on why you care.

Why would you want to know this information, exactly?

Because I’m also playing the game and have information at my disposal? Pro-Tip – just because I’ve got a bunch of players saying “MoI is scum” doesn’t mean I’m going to stop playing to my win condition.

I ask because VPB’s claim as he has given it means he is likely lying and his kill-shot is a Factional Power.

I’m going to go ahead and do my full-claim now so I can support why I believe this to be true –

I’m the High Priest of Elmo, domains Austerity and Balance.

My abilities and casts

–

Donation – I can give a target player all faith I receive the following Night for domains that player is NOT a part of.

Worship – obv

Casts

–

1. Time Slow – All actions by a target player resolve the following Night.
2. Moderation – Any cast that takes more than 2 faith are blocked that Night.
5. Persistence of Memory – I gain all the casts of a Dead player. One shot per game.

Night actions

–

N0 and N1 I worshiped Balance.
N1 I received 3 Faith and N2 I received 2 faith.

N2 I used Moderation – my theory being that scum are more likely to have generated concentrated faith for themselves and thus were more likely to be benefited by large faith casts than Town.

All of VPB’s claimed casts take more than 2 Faith. Unless I was blocked then there is no way he used Way of the Rampage to kill hito.

Thus he’s likely lying, used a Factional kill and thus scum of some flavor.

I’m claiming all this information so that when I flip Town everyone will know I have no reason to lie about this information.

My vote stays on VPB for obvious reasons. And I’m not going to bother agreeing to any plan that requires me to worship for VPB’s benefit.

--

@Everyone voting for me

– The ‘case’ on me is that I didn’t vote Quadz and I ‘attacked’ VPB. Far from overwhelming. When I flip Town I’d suggest looking at those who mindlessly pushed my lynch. You will not do it as no-one ever generally looks back but it would be a good place to find some scum besides VPB.

--

1) MoI - People were already starting to call him scum yesterday, and MoI has played in a lot of games with a lot of people, which means he might be pretty readable at this point. Also, the "Why isn't MoI dead" argument will always come up eventually. Not a good candidate for survival.

Absolutely horrid. Turn in your scum-hunting card if you aren’t scum AGM.

Here’s a question

– why isn’t every single player who is Obv-Town already dead? Or does that completely flawed logic only apply to me?

--

I think I should have enough faith to make VP a PGO tonight. This runs the risk of killing off our doctor though.

Yeah, let’s not make a scum of some flavor a PGO …

--

quadz certainly had kill options, though they all were restrictive in some way iirc.

I think it's quite likely that to kill scum need to Cast given Quadz's claim and killflavors.

Yes, because quadz couldn’t possibly have invented those claims to give himself Vig cred.

And I think that either most kills take 2 or less Faith to cast (based on my claimed action above) or they are non-casts since 4 people died last night.

--

Magna’s 1104 is just a terrible, terrible argument given that I’m pretty sure I did the exact same thing and I know my alignment is town.

No, try again. Way to ignore 987 which 1104 is a summary of. Good job.

--

SO LETS LYNCH MOI AND WHEN HE FLIPS SCUM LYNCH THE GUY WHO CAUGHT THEM ALL.

So after I flip Town you can get the rope yourself? Deal.

--

Rayfrost is probably scum – I reference his buddying to me for no reason yesterday when I wasn’t Pro-Quadz lynch and 1245, where today on ‘re-read’ suddenly my not thinking Quadz was scum is suspect. Odd that his opinion suddenly shifts with the wind.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hence, MoI is lying or was RB'd by scum.

Vote: MoI

Anyone want to claim to have Role-blocked me last Night as Town?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Likewise, I used a cast>2 last night but will get to know if it resolves only tonight ..

Based on us sharing Balance as a Domain and my N1 and N2 Faith amounts I gambled that you wouldn't have strong enough Faith do use a big Faith ability. I understand your 'anger' but it was a calculated risk.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Obviously leaning towards the latter ... what a fucking good fakeclaim, though. It's so obviously fake, but you can't help second-guess the fact that if Magna is town, we're about to hand scum-VPB 10 faith, which could be a huge swing. Given there are three scum down, though, I doubt it would be game over, soo....CHOO CHOOOOOO.

Ok .. AGM gets thrown in the scum pool also.

Because VPB is a Serial Killer and scum would have every reason to not power them up.

Meanwhile the fence-sitting on me "is obv-Fake, yet if it isn't I worry" is bad.

Also meanwhile note that AGM didn't blink an eye at VPB's claim which is so much more powerful than mine yet mine is obv-fake claim. Scum worried about their Top end powers being comprimised.

[MagnaofIllusion]

hint, scum wouldn't have roleblocked you Magna. You be da scumz. Good effort at a last second push against me. You die today.

It's ok VPB - when I flip Town you are going to hang as scum. Don't fight it .. the noose is coming sooner or later for you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm going to assume from your phrasing that Moderation is a global effect that affects everyone? Ie, you do not target a specific player with it?

The problem I have with your claim is that there were *four* kills last night. That requires there to be *four* kills in the game that are factional in nature, or require two faith or less. I can see two factional kills (mafia, SK). I'm having a lot more trouble seeing two kills for two faith or less.

You seem to be concentrating entirely on VPB's claim, but not thinking about how or why there'd be these four kills with your effect going off. What's your theory for all the kills?

Yes, Moderation is global. It affects everyone universally.

Yes there were four kills. We had three kills the Night before. There's a limit to the amount of speculation I can make about why there are four kills in context of my Ability usage. It's possible that there are multiple Vig casts that take 2 or less Faith. It's possible that we have a non-cast Vig out there also.

Another possibility is that I was specifically Role-blocked N2. Rayfrost, if he isn't lying, seems to support this. Not much I can say other than once I flip you know I have zero reason to lie about my actions and thus you have solid confirmation of a Scum role-blocker who likely isn't Faith driven.

As for focusing on VPB - his claim is what drove my claim so of course I'm going to focus on the aspect that I think conflict. If I was role-blocked and wrong about him being a SK so be it. I'm working with the information I have.

BTW, I'm True Neutral so no claims of blocking any other flavor of alignment (Law, Chaos, Evil, Good) are valid when assessing claims about blocking me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Whoa, it kinda looks like MoI is flailing from what I've

read

skimmed.

No, flailing is what you did D1 in regards to Magua calling you scum. Go back and look at your ISO and you'll get a good idea what flailing looks like.

[MagnaofIllusion]

yeah you're just accusing everyone of everything in an attempt to not die.

Please. I'm going to hang today. There is no way even with my claim it is not going to happen. Scum have every reason to see me hang and Town can believe it possible that I am scum for not voting Quadz.

I'm certainly within my rights to look at reactions to my claim and look at the motivations of that.

You for example are more likely to be lazy, arrogant Town in my eyes. You've done little scum-hunting this game and mostly have sat around either yelling that no-one believes you on Magua as scum and that you are obv-Town. It's similar to your meh play in Cyclical.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Secondly, if I had Donation, I'd be identifying my biggest townread and setting up a plan where I netted them a lot of faith. Eg, with ooba already out for a Justice + Balance worship, I'd be like, "Hell yeah. Everyone worship Balance." Magna never talks about ooba's call for Justice + Balance worship.

Finally, though I'm getting mod-WIFOMy here, every other claim has had four casts.

1. Your prescribed plan doesn’t work as I can’t donate any Balance Faith I get to ooba since he shares that Domain with me.
2. Yeah, pure Mod WIFOM. I expected better of you.

As for your whole paragraph about VPB - I've had a gut scum-read on him since Day 1. I've too often let that fall away in light of 'evidence' in the past and am not going to this game. Sorry you don't like it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I still agree with Magua's assessment of MoI's play so far. MoI: care to give a succinct list of your scum and town reads? Might aswell inclue reasoning, as there is a chance of you being town, however slight that is.

Town (no particular order)–

Faraday – Gut read based on his lack of (KEKEKEK) play which I see out of him as scum. Also his correct meta read on me.
Magua – Play is consistent with Magua as Town, plus hito’s buddying to him.
Nobody Special – Day 1 play.
ooba – His call of Justice plus Balance along with low Balance worships N0 and N1.
sottyrulez (Sotty7+zachrulez) – Meta read on Sotty and Zach. Both heads playing as I expect as Town. Further I feel their reads Day 1 were in line with mine.

Scum (Decending order of scumminess) –

VPB – pretty much explained already. Read my ISO.
DA – General meta read and play which involves coasting on Quadz wagon.
AGM / Rayfrost – Recent play and reactions as noted. Weakest as I haven’t ISOed either for interactions.

Everyone else falls into the Meh, not sure category.

[MagnaofIllusion]

To be honest, I'm expecting a "you'll know if you know" type of reply from the mod. That said I still don't see how RBs would not resolve simultaneously just because one is a cast / the other is an ability, and that's really the only explanation.

What the hell are you on about here? If scum used a non-cast Roleblock or a Cast < 3 Faith roleblock on me then Natural Action Resolution (which I haven't even bothered to see if Vi uses, BTW) has the block on me resolve and block my action.

It's not rocket science Ray.

[MagnaofIllusion]

re: town RB claim - no, if I was town RB I definitely wouldn't claim. MoI needs to die at some point regardless of if he was blocked by town or not.

Yep, I need to die because I've been on you. It doesn't matter what my alignment is, correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Add my ‘Yes’ to the VPB claim both Domains.

--

MoI: You mean I thought you were town when quadz had yet to flip and I thought he was town and felt you were seeing the same thing. And now that quadz has flipped scum I have a different opinion on the matter that makes me feel slightly suspicious of you.

Here’s why I’m finding this a suspect response Rayfrost.

1. Yesterday you were in the Quadz is not scum camp.
2. My read on Quadz was similar.
3. Quadz’s flip happens.
4. Suddenly you suspect me for not suspecting Quadz.

Step four is where you lose me. If you are of a Town mindset and didn’t suspect that Quadz was scum then it does not follow that after his flip you look at other players who didn’t suspect Quadz and are suspicious of that one element. I am not looking at Plum, DDD or whoever else didn’t vote Quadz and saying “You are likely scum for not voting him” because I didn’t vote him either. That was my Town perspective read. I can understand others of possibly having the same Town perspective read on Quadz also.

Had you been Town banging on Quadz wanting his head I could understand your position. But you weren't.

--

Not to ooba. To your choice of townread. It's not a plan you would execute now. It's a plan I'd expect you to have talked about D1 when ooba first mentioned Justice/Balance worships.

Well your expectations of what I would do are greatly different than reality. I looked at the Donate portion of my role-pm and said “Meh, maybe if I get a goldmine of Faith N1 I’ll use it that Night for a Town read”. Then 2 whopping additionally Faith over my N0 worship flowed in. I guess that’s what happens when you saddle a Solist type player with Elmo’s role …

I had a gut scumread on VPB since D1 as well. But my reads get modified by the evidence, not held in spite of it. Yeah, yeah, sucks when it's hasdgfas in ASoS. I will fall for that trick. Every time. But VPB-scum here makes no sense. VPB-SK makes potential sense, but there's no way VPB-SK is winning this game now.

What evidence am I not considering? That he claimed a Power in conflict N2 with the Cast I used? That his normal abililty screams “NOT TOWN” at the top of its lungs? His lack of tangible push on any of the flipped scum (Quadz, Singer, Hito) while trying to claim Town cred as the leader of the pack against them? His overreaction to being voted?

At this stage taking out SK VPB would be a boon for Town. With 3 scum down reducing the amount of NKs would greatly help Town’s long term chances.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Question for the Town

–

Do either Furcolow or Yosarian seem like players with likely Hider / Weak Doctor roles to you? I’ve been mulling over the jump from 3 kills to 4 last Night and that’s the one element I can come up with to answer the swing.

If it’s Furcolow then not much can be pulled from it given that Dramonic never posted in thread to give reads. Gamma’s scum reads are more accessible. Unfortunately Gamma seems a much more logical NK target for scum than Dramonic.

--

Even if he is an SK, why is lynching an SK preferable to lynching scum in this situation?

With 3 scum dead taking out a SK reduces the number of non-Town Nightkills (which are more than likely going after ‘confirmed Town’ after last Night) by 1. That extends the amount of time Town has to lynch the remaining Mafia.

Also, we have been debating disclosing this, and we're going to do it now because it makes me uneasy about worshiping Justice, and without disclosing this it's hard to explain why.

Singer worshiped Justice the night she was killed, which leads us to believe that worshiping Justice as we're planning to may net scum some kind of benefit.

Yes, that’s definitely information that needs to be out for public comsumption.

--

I'll also claim that N2 faith for Balance+Justice was 5. I worshiped Balance the night before. Would prefer if people boosting me stuck to Balance.

So Balance plus Justice = 5.

And Balance plus Austerity = 2.

And both ooba and myself have claimed N1 worships of Balance.

Thus Justice equals 3 N1 worships.

Magna is a tiger, VP is SK.

Well, you are at least half wrong on that. And I don't think the VPB is SK half is incorrect.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tell me the gameplan for VPB claiming as SK. Tell me how this gets to him winning.

It doesn't. Does the fact that he was VERY reluctant to do so and you had to continually hammer on him based on your role information not play into your thought process at all?

VPB did everything to not claim earlier today. Pretty much plain as Day. Your unspoken role information put him in a VERY hard spot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like I said before, you had better be scum because your play is simply terrible otherwise.

Yeah, this is funny. I'm just going to assume you are a SK. Your rhetoric, reaction to light pressue and attitude fit much better with scum flying solo than Vig.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I know who my slot is, and I still don't get how the abilities line up. So I don't think any sort of speculation about what sorts of effects the dead might have is worthwhile.

But set-up speculation about the number of casts in a PM is much more likely to be useful.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1) 1 of the 3 points I had against you. The other two, you may note, did not involve setup speculation in any way.

2) Disprovable (and has been disproven). No way to prove or disprove the abilities of dead players.

1. I understand. My point is clearly it’s a pretty flimsy double standard to have when you can use set-up speculation yourself but immediately dismiss others doing the same.
2. Actually with 5 Faith I can confirm the abilities of any dead player once. But of course since you think I’m scum you are going to dismiss that out-of-hand.

--

@VPB

– Who did you kill N1? Just curious. My guess is Duplicity.

[MagnaofIllusion]

meh, so I messed up with my N0 action. Regardless, I still killed scum and I'm still town. If another person vigged hito, I'm sure they would have countered me, yeah?

Lulz ... I got caught screwing up my claimed actions. Wait ... I don't want to correct them. I killed a Mafia so I can't possibly be a Serial Killer.

Just believe me.

DIE SK DIE!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Scum would want VP's role eliminated as soon as possible regardless of being town or SK at this point, they can't afford to have him killing as many times as he claims he can. If VP is lying SK playing to a wincon that is contrary to any town plan, it will very quickly become apparent to the town and VP likely won't make it through an endgame situation.

Even entertaining the notion of lynching VP today is something incredibly stupid that only scum would support.

Sigh ... I don't even ...

At this point scum's numbers are GREATLY diminished. They likely have at most 3 members remaining, and more likely 2. The is a sizeable amount of Town out there waiting to get a bullet.

The scum are just as likely to want VPB-SK around to help clearly Town player quickly. Otherwise the lack of additional kill each Night extends the game and makes Town much more likely of PoEing them. Furthermore chances of them being killed by VPB-SK are limited just based on numbers alone.

Look at Return to Liten. ThAdmiral was a claimed Vig would could possibly have been a Serial Killer. He was outed basically Day 1. The scum team (which I was a part of) kept him around and didn't even Role-block him Day 2 on until we came down to a single member much later in the game. Even if he was a Serial Killer he was doing Scum's work for them ... he kept killing of Town players.

He turned out to be a Vig but we didn't know that until he died. He killed at least 4 Town players for the scum team an was helpful in getting scum to a 3-way LYLO (that we lost, but not the point) when scum had lost half of their 4 man team to lynches by Night 2.

So no ... your reasoning isn't good.

[MagnaofIllusion]

How many scum have you been responsible for the death of, MoI? Thought so.

Well had I been handed a killing role probably more ... but I got weeeeeeeeeeee balanced blandness.

But continue to flail around. You are losing this game as SK VPB. Just accept it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Again, don't care about my own death and it makes zero sense for me to have claimed anything if I were the SK.

Believe it or not, I'm not terrible at this game MoI.

If you believe I'm SK, then that's your choice and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. It would be absolutely impossible for me to win as SK at this point. Therefore, I will shoot some scum and then die. That should be something you find agreeable if you're town. Yes?

And you know what .. I'm not terrible at this game either. Yet all you've done is said that repeatedly.

Yes it would be impossible for you to win as a Serial Killer. Do I believe you will simply go quietly into the Night? Nope not at all. You'll do everything you can to work into a position where you can screw Town over. At least if you are playing to win. And that starts with not shooting the few scum we have left and thinning out Town.

I'm agreeable to you dying ... absolutely. But I'm not going to vote for myself and am not going to flail around desperately trying to find any old alternate wagon to save my own hide.

You in my mind are not Town. No reason for me to not push for your lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vig shots are basically extra lynches for the town, there's no reason to cede control of the killing to scum at this point.

Consequently, VP's death benefits players like you, plum, magua, and rayfrost the most who may happen to otherwise manage to talk your way out of the rope. Forgive me if I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of people arguing for an outcome that benefits their own self preservation.

VPB's not a vig but continue to think that if you want.

Also continue to think I'm trying to flail to prevent my own death. It's far from the truth but once you see my flip you can reassess what your Confirmation Bias is telling you. I've said exactly what I believe.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Then vote Plum...guarantee you I don't make it beyond tomorrow night. And I've been calling you terrible because your play the last two times I've seen you is atrocious...sorry, bro. It is what it is. I think you're in a slump and you've been playing p. badly and way too arrogantly lately. Like it or lump it. I just call it as I see it.

Just as I call you like I see it ... easily discovered scum with a personality based tell. Like it or lump it.

But I'm not voting someone I don't think is scum simply to because it is a more popular wagon. That's base survivalism. I'd rather go down swinging at the player I feel strongly is not Town and perhaps have my reads considered going forward.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm not buying super powerful VP serial killer that can quickly win as SK with these insane powers he has claimed.

As for redirects and being redirected. Is that really a possibility that you want to sell us on as a legitimate theory with no evidence that redirection exists thus far? Claims like this only make us like our vote on you more.

Your choice.

Also, what the hell are you talking about redirects and legitimate theories about? Clarity is tech.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since it is blatantly obvious that I am getting lynched I’ll just leave you with a list in passing. Lynch / Vig the following players and you should have a good shot at winning.

VPB
DA
Rayfrost
AGM

If that doesn’t do it then hit the following -

Plum
Seraphim
Parama

If any scum is lurking in my Town-reads it is likely either Sottyrulez or NS.

--

The role that you had been handed is completely anti-town. Each player has multiple casts, so scum powers would have to be great to counter this. Your choice to globally block all powerful casts (3 Faith+) is scummy as hell.

Wrong on both counts. Scum are more likely to be able to effectively take advantage of high Faith casts than Town. And you of course aren’t bother to look at all at scum motivation for claiming as I did.

VP is not the play today, nor tomorrow.

Plum is the only other wagon I would accept besides MoI, but even MoI doesn't want to bus her yet so I guess we'll just have to remove him, go with the faith plan, and see what happens.

The bolded is yet another example of Fate buddying up to scum. If you were able to spend more time worrying about finding scum as opposed to eliminating players you dislike you wouldn’t find yourself on the losing end of games so often.

Of course this advice only applies if you are Town. As scum buddying up to the Serial Killer is a great tactical move.

--

Plum, what exactly would be my motivation for killing townies over tigers at this point?

As a Serial Killer? Oh, I don’t know … playing to your Wincon. You keep saying you have no chance to win. That’s true because you got busted. But you pretending you would want to kill Tigers as a Serial Killer at this stage is absurdly stupid. Your only shot it to kill as much Town as possible until the dual Mafia / SK threat screws Town over. It’s obv obv obv.

Your excuse that you can be lynched if you don’t shoot a Tiger doesn’t change this. Tomorrow come daybreak when you’ve failed you’ll have some great excuse as for sure why your Target was scum and just give you one more day.

Why most of Town is dumb enough to delay killing more or less a confirmed SK I’ll never know.

Wall posts are unnecessary.

Reading isn’t a hardship. Unless you are younger than 6.

As much as you guys want to say VP parked his vote and did nothing, I was actively calling for quadz' death from the start.

No, you absolutely did. 987 details exactly how. Yet you have been afraid of actually trying to show why any of that post is wrong since I posted it.

--

We aren't lynching VP today. This argument is fucking retarded.

Nope its not. The argument of specifically wanting to keep a Serial Killer around is fucking retarded beyond all sanity.

Fara, how is MoI NOT scum given his claim?

You can’t name one thing concretely scummy about my claim. At all. Anything you try to say is concretely scummy can just as easily be explained as Town without confirmation bias.

Is my Donation ability scummy – hell no it would be increadibly easy for scum to abuse.
Is my Delay Cast scummy – Nope
Is my Moderation Cast scummy – Given it is global, limited and not directed … hardly.
Is my Persistance of Memory Cast scummy – Nope

Yup, not a bit.

So either the roleblocker was roleblocked, which is highly unlikely, or MoI was flat-out lying and was caught. Either way, this does not bode well for him. Why shouldn't we lynch him?

Yep, I can’t wait to see how stupid this looks when I flip.

--

What makes you believe nobody special's D1 play was particularly townish? It was a net null to me.

NS showing any significant signs of reads and activity at all is a huge Town tell for him. Just because it is Null for most players doesn’t make it Null for NS. His Day 2 and lack of Day 3 play have eroded him to the bottom of the list but he's still Town currently.

You might o it later in the thread, but I didn't see any up 'till then, and I find that suspect as it's proper for town to defend people they think are town.

Sorry, nope. You aren’t ever going to find me actively defending a Town read this early in the game. I pursue my scum-reads. Don’t think that’s Town? Oh well … I’m more worried about finding scum than arguing your particular brand of playstyle.

The issue isn't the fact you failed to vote quadz so much as the method in which you avoided it. Again, from my read through of the first ten pages of the game.

If I was scum partners with Quadz I would have bussed him into oblivion at the first sign of trouble Day 1. Self-meta is useless but the fact that you are trying to say my not voting him is scummy is absurd. Anyone who has played / modded with me as scum can absolutely vouch for this.

Also – actually reading the game as opposed to just sheeping the crowd is tech. You should try it once in awhile. Assuming of course you aren’t scum. Then hell … keep not reading.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Did MoI just argue that I wasn't reading the game when my read on him was based upon reading the game?

...

...

lol

This is my saying

my feel of your posts in the first ten pages of the game

was not-good-feelings. Although you had the same read for quadz as I did, what

I saw in the first ten pages of posts

was not any real defense of him

Lol ... somehow I missed where 10 pages was the full game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI all you've done since claiming is go "WELL X, I WONDER HOW STUPID THIS'LL LOOK AFTER I FLIP".

I really can't discern any town train of thought from how you've been constantly pushing that line of thought. Would you like to explain? It's almost like your "I'LL MAKE AN AVATAR BET THAT I'M NOT SCUM" in Blackest Night, where YOU WERE SCUM.

Yes, that's all I've done. I certainly haven't given reads or stated my positions on matters.

Yup indeed. Kats you really aren't trying to discern anything.

You swoop in, make a quick post about a post from another game that has no particular relevence or close similarity to this game and pointlessly capitalize things as if that makes your point more correct.

Good work. You can go back to lurking as scum as opposed to addressing actual scum-motivations or play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

He bussed like a champ in Return to Liten.

Actually I overdid it there. I probably shouldn't have actively led the lynch on my last partner in hindsight. Meh .. it got me cred and made Llama make a really tough choice in LYLO. Which to his credit he made correctly.

Speaking of Liten and its players - where exactly is AGM? I know from other games he's done with his Semester or something. Move him up my lynch list to right under VPB if he doesn't make any solid posts today. He loves to lurk as scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's pretty lulzy that the targets of the two top competing wagons are both voting VP at this juncture.

Hmmmmmm....

What's even more lulzy is your attempt to assert in some way that indicates we're scum partners. Really ... it's that sad.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The hell is the point of this paragraph anyways?

This is the exact fluff that you stick into your posts as scum that has my scumread on you not fading.

You are complaining about me fluffing?

Insert face-palm pic here.

My ISO from today has more content than all three Days of your lighthearted little banter. Subtract Fate's contributions and NS probably has more game relevant content than your slot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nvm, you aren't reading my posts

Um, your point?

[MagnaofIllusion]

This post is a perfect example of why you're not town.

You know what this post lacks – any concrete reason why I’m not Town. You once again simply say “This shows he’s not Town” but don’t bother to explain why.

Also, not only did you completely sidestep the question, but you also tried to turn it into an attack.

Go die.

How quaint. My observation is completely within the realm of what’s reasonable. My ISO is littered with game relevant posts. Making an observation about the Liten game and my bussing there is hardly any less relevant than your “he bussed like a champ in Liten” post that I responded to.

Once again you live for rhetoric instead of trying to determine scum motivations for my actions.

--

I don't know about scum partners but it certainly indicates something regarding your desperation.

Actually you just contradicted your own point there. If I was desperate to survive I’d be jumping on the next viable wagon – Plum. Pushing that hard would be the only logical course of action if I was worried about survival. There is a small but solid group that advocates her lynch over mine.

Maybe if you were actually trying to lynch scum rather than trying to buy town cred by being the big SK hunter, there would be something to your argument.

1. So pushing a Serial Killer who I’ve thought was scum isn’t scum-hunting? Ok, nice to see the thought process I’m dealing with here.
2. I’ve already listed others I consider scum – DA, Rayfrost and AGM. Feel free to continue to ignore that simply because I’m pushing my top suspect.

Something else I've thought of: why would he use this clock-draining ability to gain faith instead of making a kill which would be more in line with his win condition?

Who says he didn’t lie about killing N1? You know it is quite possible for a Serial Killer to use an ability and make a Factional kill the same Night. Your response that it’s ‘just conjecture’ is telling. If you don’t want to consider logical possibilities that’s fine.

--

Same goes for you MoI. The reason why I'm bashing your play so hard is because I find it completely ridiculous that you ignore all logic if you're town. It's completely ludicrous and you're standing there with a straight face going 'Gee VP, why don't you want to debate the merits if this monstrosity of lunacy I'm unable to let go of?'

What logic of yours am I ignoring? I haven’t seen anything out of you that is more than rhetoric. Period. Your attempt to have me ignore you by saying “I can’t win” isn’t logic.

You continue to avoid the crux of my problem with you – you began the day claiming to be a driving force in the Quadz lynch. In 987 I put together a rather comprehensive post showing your behavior towards Quadz Day 1 and Day 2. You’ve called it wrong but never actually shown me why my thoughts are incorrect.

How is your vote on Quadz Day 1 not suspect given how little you spoke about him in that post?

Did you actually push him Day 1? If so show me the ISO posts where you did so.

But you aren’t going to do this. I know I’m likewise wasting my time talking to you.

UNVOTE: VPBaltar

Town obviously isn’t going to lynch you and as much as I want to stand by my thoughts that you are obv-SK it's become unproductive. I’m going to go dig through DA and AGM since they are my other top suspects.

You want to be right because you think I'm an asshole or because you're scared I'm going to shoot you?

Sigh. I’m hardly scared of you shooting me. Because that would work out great given your “Hang me if I don’t shoot a Tiger” promise.

--

I see lots of mudslinging from everyone involved (Ray's bugs me the most), but I see a *lot* from MoI. MoI, who I can usually rely on to be analytical, seems to not be analytical now.

See this is the sort of hypocritical crap that just pisses me off.

I’ve been getting crap rhetoric and mudslinging from VPB and DA. Dare I respond in kind? No sir … I’m scum if I do so.

And how the FUCK am I not being analytical. I’ve used the information AVAILABLE to me regarding my Night actions to assess claims made.

Magua

– What is your stance on VPB and DA mudslining? Hmmmm? Are they scum for doing it? If your answer is No and involves “it’s in their nature not yours” that’s bullshit.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wat.

Where did the suspicion of me go, MoI? DOES NOT COMPUTE.

Who said I didn't still have suspicions of you? This is the sort of knee-jerk 'gotcha' kind of posting I would expect from scum.

DA has been my solid number 2.
You must not be reading my posts if you missed where I said AGM lurking is a scum-tell for him and I'd likely be moving him way up my list.

Don't worry ... I'll ISO you also!

[MagnaofIllusion]

It is in their nature.

That’s an absolute cop-out excuse to accuse me of being scummy for the same behavior then.

I literally do not care if VPB is the SK. Even if he were to claim it in the thread, I would not vote him.

Then you are pointlessly short-sighted. Because not lynching a claimed dangerous 3rd party over someone who can possibly flip Town is frankly stupid. Not that he has directly claimed SK but in the situation you described it is a terrible move.

Question about your Donation power, Magna. Please elaborate on how it works. Here's how I think it works from what you said in a hypothetical setup with you (Balance + Austerity), ooba (Balance + Justice), and RayFrost (Justice + Syncretism).

N1, no one has any faith.
ooba worships Austerity.
RayFrost worships Austerity.
You use Donation, targeting ooba.

N2, you have 0 faith.
RayFrost has 0 faith.
ooba has 2 faith.

Is that correct?

Nope that isn’t correct. I will explain in detail. And an example is the easiest way to do it.

Myself = Balance and Austerity
Ooba = Balance and Justice
Rayfrost = Justice and Syncretism

N1 3 players worship Balance and 1 player worships Austerity. None worship Justice and 2 worship Syncretism.

N1 I myself use donation.

If I donate to ooba N2 I would have zero Faith and ooba would have 4 (3 Balance from normal worship and 1 donated from Austerity). He does not receive any donated amounts from balance since he is a member of that domain.

If I dontate to Rayfrost N2 I would have zero Faith and Rayfrost would have 6 (2 from Sycretism, 3 donated from Balance and 1 Donated from Austerity).

That should explain how it works fairly clearly, I believe.

[MagnaofIllusion]

[quote=""Magua"]

I'm not seeing the difference between your example and mine.

Perhaps if I just tried to reword it?
N1: Donate and pick a target.
N2: All faith that you get that your target would not normally get goes to the target. You lose all remaining faith (ie, what both you and your target would've gotten).

Is that accurate?[/quote]

Yes. In your example I thought somehow you were having me leach Faith from Rayfrost to ooba also. That is not the case on re-read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Does the donation still go through if you are nightkilled the same night you do it?

I'll have to inquire about that to Vi. Role-pm does not indicate anything related to that scenario.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vi's answer is cryptic but the general indication is No.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Just for the record

-

If tonight if ooba's abilitiy did not manifest as suggested by my Moderation I would suggest that Rayfrost might be an absolutely wonderful lynch.

That is unless someone else beside VPB wants to claim they had a Cast of greater than 2 Faith go through.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So that is a non-cast then, correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

And do you have any reason to suggest why the kill flavor went from Shot to Embraced Destiny's Bond?

[MagnaofIllusion]

no it's a cast. I'm not giving the name because it would indicate my role.

Does it cost more than 2?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm not going to get Katsuki off this MoI vote. /shrug

Hydra disagreements. If DA does eventually flip scum I am going to point to this post as a clear signal. As Singer has pointed out using a hydra to establish conflicting reads is a scum tactic used in multiple places to much success (Macavitar in Clash, MasterSpy in Morder).

This reads as positioning to say “I knew MoI was Town but Katsuki would not let it go”. Despite the fact that Fate has been calling me scum today regularly. Quite possibly trying to distance themselves from the mislynch.

--

MoI and Plum are scumz. Any more problems?

You are either absolutely bad lazy Town or scum AGM. I’m trying to decide which.

Because coming back late to the part and having reads that just happen to coincidently match the Top 2 wagons is ….. well …. just bad on all accounts.

--

I'm upset that fate is town. Like seriously upset.

Well either you are a douchenugget (like Benmage and Fate in AGM’s CYS cheering a Town death as Town) or scum.

Regardless how much you dislike Fate if you can easily read him as Town then it should make the game easier for Town Rayfrost.

Your ever evolving claim of “I can leave the game, no I can’t, but trust me it’s awesome” on top of a 1-shot Vig claim in a Vig happy game makes you smell pretty scummy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok Town ... remember everything I've said once my flip happens.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hold up, MoI.

Your Moderation ability costs 2 Faith?

Yes

[MagnaofIllusion]

My prediction for this game is this:

One more scum flip, one more round of death, massclaim-> Game broken.

Better pray you get a scum-flip in the round of death otherwise your prediction dies on arrival.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oooor you are scum. That works too.

Nope it doesn't but thanks for playing.

Your parting gift ... Massaging Gel Insoles.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Chances of you flipping town are about as likely as you posting like Faraday and myself for an entire game.

Actually the chances of me flipping Town are pretty much exactly equal to the chances that you or Kats fail to properly read me - 100%

[MagnaofIllusion]

I hope I'm in this game.

You aren't. Neither am I. Neither of us are important enough.

The insult to injury element is that Furcolow made it in above many players actually in the game

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah because you're totally in this game.

Everyone knows that Furc is Vi's favorite hydra buddy though.

Kats - fuck off. The point of my post is THAT I'M NOT IN THE FUCKING GAME EITHER.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't think MOI's scummy.

Seraphim/Da/Ooba and a few more all do. I still don't see any reason we're not lynching Plum. She should have been dead by now.

Actually it might not even matter. We're up. We haz vigshots. I'm sure someone's got a bullet with Plum's name on it..

You've crystalized today quite clearly.

Pretty much I'm being lynched for not having a scum read on Quadz. Can't argue that I voted him as I never did. Due to [REDACTED] he looked like mediocre Town to me. Everyone can coast.

And it probably will not matter as long as you don't let the Serial Killer (VPB) get away with it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have meta from [redacted] that makes me feel that you are slightly scummy but not majorly so. Your quadz stuff is iffy, but hardly lynch-worthy. The two together make you an okay choice from my PoV, even though I trust faraday's reads like I trust my mother.

I'll just say on you having [REDACTED] meta of me - bullshit.

There is not a single active game where I have flipped scum. Every single on where I have been scum is complete.

So no ... you can't have [REDACTED] meta.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't believe you. Way too cheap for way too powerful an ability. It's easily within the realm of possibility that you Roleblock all the powerful Casts in the game nigh every Night for that cost.

I will buy 2 Faith for a single-target conditional Roleblock, though.

And just checking - it

is

a Roleblock-type action?

Well then you don't believe me and are wrong.

I've posted the description (paraphrased, of course) already.

This is just you looking for any excuse to justify the lazy read along with everyone else on my wagon. Noted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I like the part where MoI is a sinking ship but completely refuses to vote; how helpful is that if he's town. I mean there's even been calls for counter-wagons on Plum and yet no vote from him; basically at this point you've (or at least I do) got to consider that to be the equivalent of a "I'm okay with you guys lynching me" sign. All talk, no action.

I like the part where you continue to take pot shots while not providing anything of actual content.

I've provided a pretty comprehensive list of Town and Scum reads today. Have you? Nope.

Why should I vote for Plum just because there have been 'calls' for counterwagons. Hint - there are just calls form the few people already voting her.. It serves no purpose other than survivalism. Sorry, given the "NOT VOTING QUADZ EQUALLYS OBV-SCUM" and my rather mediocre (and some deem anti-Town) list of abilities doesn't justify voting for someone who I don't have a solid scum-read on (Plum).

I guarantee the minute I voted for Plum out of the woodwork would come a chant of "Scum looking to survive by jumping on the only other wagon". Money in the bank.

Go back to active lurking. You do that well.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh indeed, I'm sure you missed that lovely long post where I dissected our unwary dead scum and you turned up the most promising looking connections.

But whatever. I don't know why you're avoiding my wagon but the hell you would be as Town in this position. Instead of rambling around muttering things about not being survivalist, you'd size things up. You'd figure that I may be Townish but I'm not obvTown, that you know your own role, and that if it came down to it as far as you know I'm a better lynch than you are. Instead you're worried about people calling you survivalist scum.

And especially now you think I'm lazy person trying to excuse my recent suspicions of you. You'd say the hell with it, that's not Townish, she has a better chance of being scum than me and I can try to convince people that she is a better lynch, which as far as I know she is.

Whatever Plum. Sit on your high horse and preach all you want. I'm being pragmatic. I spent my Day fighting the fight I believed in (VPB as Serial Killer). It didn't pan out. My survival isn't that important given the position Town is in. I still win with Town. 3 scum are dead and more will likely be coming soon. It's not like my death leaves the Town littered with Furcolows and Chesskids. I have a solid list of Town reads who I know are very competant players that I trust can take the game to victory for me.

The Day was decided long ago. Pretend it wasn't all you wish. The sole charge against me is that I didn't believe Quadz was scum. And that's accurate. I didn't. It's not an indication I am scum (since I am not) but it is an easy charge to make.

I saw your long post which you constructed with a healty does of confirmation bias. It was hardly noteworthy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Go back to active lurking. You do that well.

Thanks.

VOTE: DDD

This way I am a 'Good Town' using my vote.

You ignore every single bit of actually game relevant information I said in response to your pointless post and did this.

Bravo ... you are a credit to whatever faction you are a member of ..

[MagnaofIllusion]

DDD over MoI?
No

Yes, he's clearly a benefit to Town as exemplified by his total lack of scum-hunting and general active lurking.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like I said before, completely uncalled for and biased for whatever personal grudge or reasons you have.

Somehow I find this comment inspires me with fits of giggles ...

Mr. Pot ... paging Mr. Pot ... a gentlemen Mr. Kettle is seeking to tarnish your reputation!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah except I did have a townread on you AFTER your claim, but Kats wasn't having it.

And yourself? You admitted your reads were pretty shit, and I can't recall a game where you have read ME correctly. But of course instead of acknowledge that we mutually can't read each other, you still have yourself on your almighty pedestal above everyone when you really are on par for the course as it comes to players.

Sure, foist off that you had a Townread on me but you couldn't act because Kats didn't believe it. And if you did have it why didn't you actively claim the block on me? Hmmmm?

Oh I completely acknowledge we both can't read each other for crap.

I hate your LULZ IMA GAMBITTING CRAZY MAN style of play.

You hate my style of play.

But you are just as guilty of having pre-conceived notions as you claim Vi does in the above post. So it makes me chuckle.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't hate your style of wall posts or analytical play... when it USED to be that.

Recently its just been "wow youre just a bunch dirty ape fucks who can't think on the same cognitive level as me. Your reads are all shit and mine are godlike"

And you refused to be humbled.

1. I doubt the first part very much.
2. Feel free to have whatever opinion of my play you wish.
3. The bolded makes me chuckle coming from you. You are a walking double standard. You feel free to withhold Mafia QTs at your personal whim ... but when someone else threatens to do so they are being a mindless asshole. You complain about someone else not being humble?

Also, did you read the Dead QT? It is pretty clear I knew my reads absolutely blew this game. The only viable ones were hito and singer who died before it was possible for me to push them as reads.

And don't know what pre-conceived notions you are talking about nor how they would resemble Vi's "I'm done with Fate" which was a LOT more personal than just regular attacks, because he was proposing blacklisting me from his future games which I do enjoy a lot. With YOU I have NEVEr said "well never playing with MoI again that arrogant asshole" I have the notion that you are an asshole, everyone has their notions about everyone else,

but to ACT on them in a way that severely limits the other person's options

? Completely different story.

The bolded is a piss poor statement. How is Vi deciding you are a negative influence to her games and deciding to blacklist you (which may not even happen) a "severe limitiation" on you?

There are TONS of excellent GMs on site. Representing that a single (or hell, even 5) GM blacklisting you is a hardship is rather laughable.

[MagnaofIllusion]

3. The bolded makes me chuckle coming from you.

But it doesn't mean it's false.

<_<

Doesn't mean it's true either ....