TT; Book 1: Bible Verse Mafia - Game over!
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mith Godfather
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mith Godfather
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Hm, MoS has already written 27 words since I gave him his "assignment", yet he is too busy? Clearly he is trying to avoid giving himself away.
(Note: I am travelling most of the day tomorrow and most of the day Thursday, will probably be shopping most of the day Wednesday, and who knows whether I'll have an internet connection while we're in Tennessee. I will probably still post somewhat regularly, but in case I don't, you'll know why.)-
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mith Godfather
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mith Godfather
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mith Godfather
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Ah, this is more like it.
One, again, you have twice as many posts and yet you were too busy with your paper to humor me. I find this interesting.that's why I have twice as many posts as you in this game.
Two, who cares how many posts you have? Last I checked this game was more about the content of the posts than the number. I could be wrong though, it's been a while.
Three, I'm pretty sure I've been on a plane all day. I'm pretty sure I posted that I would be travelling today.
(But that's irrelevant. We'll just look at the number of posts.)
Four, I was addressing Coron. That is why I asked Coron to do my little "assignment". That is not why I asked you.
I might tell you why I asked you. If you ask me nicely.
Now why would I do that? I believe all I asked you to do was tell me why you're innocent. You doMith, here's your assignment. Write 50-75 words on why giving out assignments at the beginning of a game is totally pointless and just adds to the worthless drivel that is contained within the first 3-5 pages of the thread.believeyou're innocent, don't you?
Because I certainly don't believe what you have asked me to write.-
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mith Godfather
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Come on, MoS, you're better than this. I gave you a nice lengthy post to respond to, and the best you can come up with is a "self-explanatory" vote? That's a cop-out.
Unvote: Coronfor the moment, though. I'm not interested in a quick lynch, and I'm not interested in a day 1 claim. I've got the bandwagon information I was looking for, it's time for something else. I will be coming back to Coron eventually if he doesn't post something worthwhile; but for now, let's see if MoS will bite.-
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mith Godfather
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Coron, you might get lynched less if you took the time to explain things rather than just insulting everyone.
Just a thought.
(And yes, I am aware that there is notmuchto explain here, as it seems pretty much everyone voting for him just followed me blindly. However, he could at least explain why he refuses to write a little something for me.)-
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mith Godfather
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I'll add aFOS: VisMaior, certainly the most suspicious to jump on the Coron-wagon. There's another on there that I've got my eye on, but I'll give him a couple more posts to see how he reacts to the possibility that I'm watching him.
I'll have to leave it at that this morning; we're supposedly leaving in... 31 minutes, and I haven't packed yet...-
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mith Godfather
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Yikes, it's been a while, I'd forgotten how incoherent Roadbird is...
I believe I already did explain why I asked you to do this. I did it to get you to talk, or at least to judge your reaction. It should be obvious why I want you to talk; look at your first two posts (a total of three words). I get a much better read on people when they're talking (and even better when they're arguing with me).Coron wrote:it has yet to be explained to me why I should make the world read 25 extra useless words, besides it appears to have found me a scum.
I've tried this little game before, though on that occasion I did it not to get people to talk, but to get a statement from players I know and can read reasonably well. A little answer to an admittedly somewhat silly question provides a great reference for later in the game. And, of course, the discussion thrives and bandwagons are born. Look how many people gave some sort of response here.
What I find interesting about your choice of response is not that you questioned and refused, but that that's all you did for the first few posts. Now, you're suddenly making longish posts. So was this legitimately not having anything to contribute, or were you lurking until you saw something to jump on?
I don't understand your initial jump on Roadbird at all. He is certainly not the only person to bandwagon jump.
(I don't understand why VisMaior chimed in with the nonissuepost thing, for that matter.)
All that said, I'm glad you got Roadbird posting, he makes less sense than you.
Warning: Using the user filter without looking at the context may cause mith to make fun of you, Crap Logic (tm), upset stomach, foot-in-mouth, and diarrhea.Roadbird wrote:
Yes lets all sit back and wait for a few months until Iammars gets bored and starts writing his 25-50 words mith ordered him to. Then we can all vote him for posting. Or better yet. Lets all vote no lynch. Well Coron your mathematical formulas seem to work. Tell me how much would scum gain from that?Mastermind of Sin wrote:why not just not vote at all yet???
Context:
EnderX wrote:Placeholder Vote: No Lynch
I'm present, I'm not seeing anyone acting excessively suspicious, (except maybe Mith's 'teacher'-mode with the essays...?) and I'm hoping not to get slammed down for lurking. My vote is only a temporary until someone either acts suspicious enough to earn it, or someone makes a good case for why I should vote for another particular individual. I'm not advocating a no-lynch, just keeping my vote from accidentally killing someone should the day move quickly.
Might I suggest that you haven't seen better tactics because you have been too busy not paying attention to the game during day 1?Roadbird wrote:Anyway, I will follow any bandwagon on day one. I've been playing that way for years now and I might have missed something in the past year of not playing but I haven't seen better tactics.
(And from the one game I remember playing with you in, you'll follow any bandwagon on day X and throw the game away because it's lynch or lose. The play style you are advocating is harmful to the town, and I am quite happy to lynch you just for that if I don't form any strong suspicions as we near the day's end. But I probably will, because I get involved instead of mindlessly bandwagoning hopping.)-
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mith Godfather
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Read my question again. I was asking why you weren't posting like this in the first place, not why you were posting content now. Obviously I prefer you posting to not posting.Coron wrote:and I'd think you'd prefer it to me lurking
...ok, but that doesn't justify the "case closed" attitude of your "still need more reason?" comment. Is there more reason?he's the person I noticed.
I'm leaning toward a VisMaior vote at the moment, but I'd like to hear from MoS and Roadbird again first.-
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mith Godfather
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I really need to start a mafiascum class in reading comprehension. "The play style you are advocating" is present tense. It has nothing to do with my recollection (which you don't care about, but are absolutely certain is incorrect, despite me not saying what game I'm talking about; I could point you to it if you like, but we're getting off topic here); my point in bringing it up is simply: hasty play on day 1 breeds hasty play in general, and it's bad for the town.I don't care what your recollection of events is. You are willing to lynch me over a memory that is incorrect
I certainly said no such thing. You are allowed to have whatever opinion you like. And (this is the key, listen carefully), I am allowed to disagree with it.but I'm not allowed to have an oppinion on day-one tactics.
I offered a reason why you might hold that opinion (admittedly a bit ad hominem, but I couldn't help myself after the rubish you posted at MoS). Rather than defend your opinion, you add:
This is not the statement of someone who has really considered all sides of the argument.Well, I'm using it even if you get me lynched over and over again.
Now, if you would like to discuss the question "Is there something better to do on day 1 than jump on every bandwagon that comes along?", I'm sure I can come up with a few examples that answer "Yes". At the moment though, I must continue to believe that your "tactic" is the product of lazy play.
Happy Boxing Day.Merry Christmas-
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mith Godfather
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mith Godfather
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Right, after further review:
The case against armlx is weak at best. At the time he posted the "Roadbird or Vis" post, there was already a rather strong bandwagon on VisMaior (4 votes and an FOS) and only a single vote on Roadbird; while I was calling Roadbird incoherent, there was no real sign that a bandwagon might go that direction at the time. Besides that, I'd rather *encourage* players to post who they are "deciding" between; it often makes connections easier to find.
I'm not willing to vote for Roadbird until I hear from him, and at the moment all I have on him is an annoyance at his play style rather than anything particularly scummy. He hasn't posted anywhere in a week, and I assume that as with others this has more to do with the time of the year than with deliberate lurking.
VisMaior remains at the top of my list, for reasons already stated, so I willVote: VisMaioragain.FOS: Flying Dutchman; he seemed a tad sycophantic earlier in my direction and the CA thing is bothering me. No one seems interested in going that direction today though (which is fine, I think I'd rather wait and see if anything new happens there anyway).-
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mith Godfather
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Bleh, day 1 claims. It is unlikely I will move my vote because of a claim. Waste of time.
You could try actually posting suspicions and arguing your case instead of sitting around posting little one sentence posts hoping the bandwagon will go somewhere else.
Who are your top three suspects at the moment?-
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mith Godfather
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VM, I asked for three, not half the town.
I will reiterate that I am not interested in claims on day 1, and I find it unlikely that anything claimed is going to cause me to remove my vote. That said, becoming more suspicious of another player might, and LyingBrian and Flying Dutchman are both edging up there.-
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mith Godfather
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inHim, if you're referring to the eye rolling, I was responding to the "oh great website creator" bit which was quite uncalled for (had I acted "high and mighty" in the post where I mentioned him, fair enough, but I don't think any reasonable person could interpret that post as such, so I can only assume it was deliberate sarcasm intended to undermine whatever I had in mind).
If you're referring to my "reading comprehension" comment, the sentence I responded to seemed at least a little sarcastic. I felt justified in responding in kind. If he didn't intend it that way, then I apologize for being unnecessarily harsh. Though, if LyingBrian is going to address me as he did, I might as well act the part.
If you're referring to something else, you'll have to point me to it.-
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mith Godfather
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The main definition of routine is something regular, but usually when used in a phrase like "the high and mighty routine" it's just being used in the sense of:
So nyah.answers.com wrote:4.Slang.A particular kind of behavior or activity:Must you go into your hurt routine when you don't get your way?
I am still waiting to see what FD has to say. If all he says is a claim, I may have to vote him just on principles.-
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mith Godfather
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Unvotebecause of the deadline.
I am suspicious enough of FD to cast the final vote in a couple days (entirely because of CA's persistence), but shame on you all for this claim stuff. Has anyone stopped to think how easy it would be to make up a claim in this game? Has anyone stopped to think how risky it is to give the scum lots of information to work with? Maybe everyone is genuinely suspicious of FD and was ready to lynch him regardless of what he claimed, but that does not appear to be the case at all.
To answer LyingBrian's question, I try to catch scum. It's as simple as that. I vote for who I think is most suspicious (or close to it, if my hand is forced by a deadline). I don't screw around with claims, because in a well designed game (and knowing Cadmium, this is one) it is harmful for the town. There are good reasons to claim; day 1 bandwagons are not one of them. There are 10 pages here to analyze, more than enough to findsomethingsuspicious. Random bandwagons, particularly to force claims, are a waste of time and entirely against the point of the game (and don't get us through the day any faster, if everyone plays along and claims, as the town goes through several players before settling on someone that they can "afford" to lynch).
[/rant] for now. I'm tired. Maybe more later.-
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mith Godfather
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In that case, I will not be voting for FD. I was suspicious of him earlier, as I mentioned, but since then he has done very little that bothers me. The case agaisnt him as presented so far is very weak, and I would be surprised if more than a few people are voting him because of it, rather than because of CA going after him the way he did.
Vote: Roadbird. VisMaior is not going to be lynched today, even though I am still quite suspicious of him. I'll wait on LyingBrian as well, as it may be a generational clash more than anything. Roadbird is therefore the best alternative to FD at deadline. I hope FD is scum, since it seems likely he will be lynched anyway, but I'm just not seeing it.-
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mith Godfather
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Sentence 1: Yes, I liked it so much that I said I was willing to vote for him... until CA gave his disclaimer.
Sentence 2: I'm not sure how you meant this, but the implication is that this is a sudden thing due to our roles in this game. I guess you wouldn't know how I play, but that's still one heck of a leap. That, and I've been strongly agaisnt day 1 claims *in this very thread* long before the FD bandwagon.
Sentence 3: You are welcome to argue about it, rather than hiding behind "it's bad play". I've already ranted about it a little bit to LyingBrian, you can use that as a starting point.
Though, as a warning, if we do argue about role-claim-frenzy inHim will probably tell me I'm acting "high and mighty" again by the end of it.-
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mith Godfather
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How is it safe? In the current setting, not claiming when bandwagoned gets most people lynched.VisMaior wrote:I see. I think it is bad play because it is safe play for scum.
Anyway, that doesn't really address my claim that forcing claims early in the game is bad for the town (and the game in general).
Heh... unless I'm mistaken, you are actually older than me.LyingBrian wrote:i'm not sure what "generational" clash you were talking about... you are more experienced, and i seriously respect you for that... i doubt you're THAT much older than me though...
No, all I meant is that it has been a while since I played a significant number of games, and the current state of the metagame is not what it was when I played a lot. Thus, for now, I must keep in mind that I might be seeing your playstyle as scummy because of that shift, not because it is inherently scummy.-
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mith Godfather
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mith Godfather
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Hey, the "nice play" tell strikes again!
For my convenience:
Job 14:13"If only you would hide me in the grave
and conceal me till your anger has passed!
If only you would set me a time
and then remember me!
Hosea 2:6Therefore I will block her path with thornbushes;
I will wall her in so that she cannot find her way.
Acts 20:26Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men.
Numbers 35:16" 'If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death.
Flying Dutchman was likely a roleblocker. armlx's verse doesn't help much. PeaceBringer's suggests that the scum each have a different kill method (and that PeaceBringer killed armlx, of course). And I am terribly amused at "perished to death".
ObligatoryFOS: Commodore Amazing, if only for bad play. I'll have to take a closer look at him later, along with everyone else on the bandwagon. One thing I am particularly curious about is those players that didn't post at all between CA's post on the 12th (denying he had an investigation) and FD's death on the 17th: PeaceBringer (dead scum), Fritzler, and Coron. Both Fritzler and Coron were active during those five days, I find the lack of comment disturbing. (Could also throw in Roadbird here, who posted but didn't address CA's comment.)-
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mith Godfather
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inHim, I can't fault DP for what he did yesterday. FD was dead anyway, and was suiciding. (I do agree that there is likely at least one more scum on that wagon, I just don't see any strong reason to suspect DP over anyone else, including you.)
Fritzler, I sometimes forget that there are players that just jump on any bandwagon that forms. So, for now, I will withdraw my objection that the three of you didn't comment after CA's statement. I am tempted to vote for you on the grounds that your constant bandwagoning works against the town. But I'm not ready for a vote yet, so you just get anFOS.
VisMaior, any particular reason you voted for Pooky?-
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mith Godfather
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http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2828With regards to mith, I don't know what to make of his "nice play" tell on PeaceBringer. mith, could you explain that tell to me? And has anyone else heard of this tell? And mith, why didn't you follow up with it if you thought it was a tell?
First one. It's not something I normally look at. I had just been reading that thread, so I commented on it. Maybe now that I've seen it first hand, I'll pay more attention to it in future games, but at the time I had other things to look at (like thinking you might have an investigation).
Er... why?Also, if Vis is a hider, should he be telling us who he is targeting each night? I think he should if we think he's a hider. However, if we think he is a doctor, we obviously shouldn't be hearing who he is targeting. I imagine the scum thinks he is a hider, otherwise they would have killed him last night?-
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mith Godfather
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I've played in lots of games (most recently Canine over on the GL) where hiders don't die if they hide with scum (precisely for this reason; it turns the role into a pseudo-cop). I hadn't really considered that possibility when I posted. Not sure how Cadmium would treat a hider, and it's pretty pointless to try outguessing him anyway. But thanks for the clarification.I didn't realize hiders get killed if the person they hid with is killed. I thought he would only die if he hid with scum. My hope was that we could use him as a suicidal cop role.
Still leaning toward Roadbird.
Why the change, Fritz?-
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mith Godfather
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Huge FOS: VisMaior.
Yesterday: "I think [no-claim] is bad play because it is safe play for scum.
Today: "I think claiming townie should not save one from a lynch, as otherwise this would be too easy of a play for scum."
Most of Today: Voting for Pooky and then LyingBrian, with comments like "I dont really like the speed on the roadbird wagon." and "Pooky is a ot [sic] more scummy then Roadbird, I think... ".
And then: You suddenly switch to Roadbird, not because anything has come out with new suspicions/evidence against him, but after two players have come out saying he is likely innocent.
This screams of trying to rush through a lynch on an innocent that might otherwise get off the hook and hiding behind some ridiculous claim based reasoning. If I thought there was any chance of getting you lynched today, I would be voting for you.
LML: Just use the filter on my posts and search on Roadbird. I argued with him a bit yesterday (more for being incoherent and bandwagoning than anything else) and voted for him late because I thought FD was innocent and he was the next best bandwagon. Today, I said I'd be happy lynching him and was leaning toward him (over LB)... not sure how that's the same as me being "STRONG" on his bandwagon. You've seen me strong on a bandwagon before.
I found him suspicious for the bandwagoning, the not-making-any-sense, and the lack of comment on CA's post.
I could make a semi-WIFOM argument here (Why would I suddenly declare him innocent if I were lying scum?), but that's a bit pointless.
Still, I'm not going to reveal why I think he's innocent just yet; I am still trying to decide whether the benefits (likely saving Roadbird) outweigh the risks. I'll continue thinking about it today. Don't put the final vote on him until I post again, at the very least.-
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mith Godfather
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But youYes: if people are suspicious of a townie and he claims townie, it should not save him.weren'tsuspicious of him. He claimed townie over two weeks ago, and you twice implied you didn't think he was suspicious.
Vote: VisMaior. I'll switch to LyingBrian if forced to by the deadline, but I will not tolerate poor meta-game logic in the place of voting for people you actually find suspicious. Besides, if we don't lynch hiders/docs, mafia will simply claim hider/doc...
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mith Godfather
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Meh, screw it. Probably not solid play, but I'm too tired to think about it any more.
Psalm 107:31. There's four identical verses in Psalm 107; I think it might be some sort of weakened mason type role. I wouldn't put it past Cadmium to have left one as a safe scum claim, though I'm not sure how this would've been done considering all anyone was sent was a verse and whether they needed to send a choice. Even so, I see no reason to lynch Roadbird today. I expect to die tonight for this, but a clever scum probably would've picked up on what I was hinting at anyway.-
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mith Godfather
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Yes, you getting killed is pretty likely to confirm whatever your verse is. Thus "aside from getting killed". We can't sit around waiting for you to get killed to confirm your role (particularly since your claim is open to more than one interpretation, and you might be lying). If you continue to not die, we have to come to a decision on you eventually.-
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Thoth, I believe Roadbird simply because, unless the Mod specifically told him the claim was safe (and the rules imply that he wouldn't do this), the odds of him falsely claiming a verse which is identical to my own are not very good (there's over 30,000 verses). I doubt anyone picked up on my day 1 hints (posts 56 and 96), and if Roadbird had he would've come out with his verse much earlier than he did.-
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mith Godfather
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Actually, I was refering to LML coming in yesterday and going hard after LB, implicitly defending VM (and then VM linking it back).
An investigation would explain it too, though.
Unvote. I'm not convinced you aren't naive, but I don't mind giving it a day or two.
I'll consider Pooky, but at the moment I'm leaning toward Fritz.-
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mith Godfather
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inHim's argument against Thoth bothers me. While it is certainly true that scum sometimes stay off a lynching bandwagon in order to appear more innocent when the lynched player turns up innocent, but to take that line of thinking to "we should lynch one of the players that was on the second biggest wagon both days" ducks the responsibility voting for dead innocents. I stayed off both because, at the end of the day, neither was the most suspicious in my eyes; I don't have any reason to think Thoth was voting the same out of a different motivation.
That isn't to say I think Thoth is definitely innocent, but I don't see anything else in his posts that stands out as particularly suspicious, and so I won't be voting for him on such a weak basis.
Unvotefor the moment. I'd like Pooky and DP to both post something more substantial than the little comments I've seen so far, including who (aside from each other) they find suspicious.-
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mith Godfather
- Godfather
- Godfather
- Posts: 9267
- Joined: March 27, 2002
- Location: McKinney, TX
As I said earlier, I don't think we're meant to be townies. I think we're meant to be weakened masons.
Curious about the claim from DP. I'm reminded once more of something he said about claiming on the GL:
Granted, it's a tad later in the game, and this is a somewhat unique game. But there's not all that much pressure on him, and it surprises me that he'd claim now.You should know better than that, mith. I do NOT claim this early in the game, unless I am a cop or doc or scum.
~wanders off to think/procrastinate/write-silly-scenes-for-VM~-
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mith Godfather
- Godfather
- Godfather
- Posts: 9267
- Joined: March 27, 2002
- Location: McKinney, TX
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mith Godfather
- Godfather
- Godfather
- Posts: 9267
- Joined: March 27, 2002
- Location: McKinney, TX
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mith Godfather
- Godfather
- Godfather
- Posts: 9267
- Joined: March 27, 2002
- Location: McKinney, TX
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mith Godfather
- Godfather
- Godfather
- Posts: 9267
- Joined: March 27, 2002
- Location: McKinney, TX
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mith Godfather
- Godfather
- Godfather
- Posts: 9267
- Joined: March 27, 2002
- Location: McKinney, TX