Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[Magua]

Not voting Quadz at the moment. Reads coming in a bit. Setup stuff first.

So I read POWERFUL WIZARDS. There was no domain claiming in it (though it only had one wizard per domain, and some people without domains, so, differences.)

I think domain claiming is a bad idea at the moment, for two reasons, one obvious and one not-so-obvious:

1) The scum. A scumgroup of N players almost certainly had N-1 of them worship a domain utilized by the last one, who will be casting some effect tonight. That's just about set in stone, and domain claiming neither helps nor hurts with that.

However, the scum group are incentivized to kill off people who do not share a scum domain, since the worship of these people is less likely to ever help the scum. That is, if your domains are Justice and Will, and no scum has either of these domains, domain claiming makes you a more likely target.

2) Tarhalindur. Being a Vi game, there's a Tarhalindur role out there, and I'm 99.9% that it will be significantly advantaged by having a massclaim of domains -- either because it has to eliminate everyone of a certain domain(s), or it wins if everyone alive has a certain domain(s), or something along those lines.

So instead of massclaiming domains, I would recommend that everyone name what domain they'd like worshipped. Which gives us nearly the same information for our purposes (what should I worship if I think X is town?), but hinders someone who needs to know what everyone's domains are.

[Magua]

Um...yes? Because every player in this game should be a high priest of a Scummer, as opposed to the Scummer himself?

What would you say if I told you that wasn't true?

Town
-----
Gammagooey is town. I brook no dissent. Everything that Gamma has done has oozed town to me.
Faraday is town...ish. Good thought processes, but won't really solidify until we've had a few flips.
AlmasterGM is town. Don't care what hitogoroshi says. Really don't care what duplicity says. Agree with ooba/Gamma that the right play would've been to wait to see how people's reads solidified and then say, "Oh, yeah, we can lynch mothrax for free," but still disbelieve Almaster-scum.
ooba is town for #103.

Scum
------
Quadz. Don't like quadz. Apparently, this feeling is shared, which makes me like quadz more. Enough to not vote him now. So it goes. Nothing personal against you, Faraday. =P
Parama. I don't like either of Parama's posts. I don't like someone who votes and then unvotes and then votes in the same post; has the feel of someone wanting to be careless and stream-of-consciousness without actually being either.

VOTE: Parama

Plum's #59 is spot-on about my feelings about Nicki Minaj as well, but I'm curiously null on Plum.

Besides, how many people here were in MoCo? Do you honestly believe that we shouldn't be getting rid of mothrax, the guy who never voted for scum and was on all Town mislynches? Can any of the other MoCo players who are against this give me a reason why we aren't taking advantage of AGM's claim to keep mothrax alive?

Chances are high that mothrax will be lynched today. But I see no reason to hurry the process along when the game's been open less than 24 hours.

@Almaster:

Will this lynch reset the battery?

[Magua]

Also, this isn't a Night 0 vig, so don't say that it is.

Assuming AlmasterGM is telling the truth, which I am currently doing, it *is* a Night 0 vig *that requires the consent of the town*. That is *exactly* what it is. In fact, it's even *better* because we get to see mothrax's play before we decide to go through with it or not.

All right, instead of talking about why mothrax is such a good policy lynch, how about we talk about the players in the last 6 pages? After all, lynching scum > policy lynching, any day.

Absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing this. Seeing as there's only one vote that I can see on mothrax at the moment, this reads as fantastically defensive. *You're* the one drawing the topic back to Almaster/mothrax.

Chances are high that mothrax will be lynched today.

What?

Did I stutter?

[Magua]

Magua: Agree/Disagree with this statement: "When we discover which Domain has the most Worshippers tonight, we should take care to never Worship that domain again."

Agree. (I reserve the right to modify this depending on what information we get when someone flips.)

However, you should not rule out the idea that the scum have access to every domain to begin with.

I was trying to trick Sotty into inventing flavor when, looking at the sample, there probably wasn't any. It almost seems like that happened, but the subsequent explanation about the passive ability "Trollspeak" makes sense.

One of the following two is true:
1) Scum are given roles such that they can claim the role with some of its abilities (and their flavor) straight from their PM and pass for town, or
2) Scum are given mod-provided fakeclaims with mod-provided fakeclaim flavor.

So, I wouldn't be looking for flavor slips.

Your case on me: lol I voted twice in the same post
Uh okay.
That's not a case. I'll just put you on my "to-be-ignored-all-game" list now.

Again, defensiveness trying to be passed off as casual. Liking my vote more.

@Equinox:

Your opinion on Parama, please.

[Magua]

unvote, vote: magua

I don't care that VV has basically claimed scum. Magua basically just posted his role PM for us.

Mmm hmm. And what is different in my #172 from my #155 that moved me from "to-be-ignored-all-game" to "scum"?

[Magua]

pedit: it's that you're trying to make everyone suspicious of me for something that is LEGITIMATELY not suspicious and that you KNOW is not suspicious. You're asking Equi, arbitrarily, to make your case for you.

Equinox said he wanted to talk about the players who were posting. I obliged.

pedit II: and look, Equi did the smart thing and said "I'm not makin yo case fo ya, foo!"

No, what he said is, "No comment."

Between them they might, sure, but it's likely they're all worshipping the domain of their best PR.

Yes. That's why I agreed with you. =P

@Parama:

Is hitogoroshi part of my-and-VV's scumteam?

[Magua]

Miller/neighborizer discussion is boring and useless.

@VP, Sotty:

Your opinion on Parama, please.

[Magua]

Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic

Please clarify for me if there's a typo here.

@People who have called Faraday Town: Why?

Sincerity.

[Magua]

I do not think we should mass-claiming domains now. However, I think the possibility of mass-claiming if you worshiped N0 and what you worshiped should be considered.
Pro:
- Locks people into claims. We can compare with Faith results on N1 and narrow down if anybody lied.
Con:
- Scum might get an idea of people with power roles\good casts if they claim "Not worshipped on N0"

I'm leaning towards the info beating out the possible disadvantage.

Off the cuff, I don't think we get too much out of this.

Scenario 1: Three people claim to have worshipped Will, but Will turns out to have five faith tonight. Are any of these three people scum?

Scenario 2: Five people claim to have worshipped Will, but Will turns out to have four faith tonight. Obviously, one of those five is lying. However, the chance of lynching that 1/5 is less than a general lynch, all things considered, and there's no guarantee that the other four are clear.

In exchange, the scum know they're shooting someone who's casting tonight.

You *do* get a win in clearing groups of people if it's truthful -- three people claim Will, Will has three faith -- assuming that the scum went for a "everyone but one person worships the same domain" plan. How much of a win that is depends on how many people did not worship last night -- the more who didn't worship, the less win you get.

I don't think it's a good idea for D1.

He's refusing to back his vote up with reasoning. How is that 'sincere'?

How is it not?

[Magua]

Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic

Please clarify for me if there's a typo here.

No typos. Mina asked Vi pre-game what we'd get on Chaotic Evil and she refused to tell us, if that's what you're wondering.

Yes.

Or what would happen if you targetted someone who was neither Chaotic nor Evil?

This ability is just so whacky I cannot help but believe it is legit.

[Magua]

Bear with me for a bit: Suppose in one hand, I'm holding an apple, and in the other, an orange. Got it so far? Good.

Now, I show you the apple, and I say, "This is an apple. And it's good." Now, when I show you the orange, I tell you "This apple is better, though, because it has Vitamin C!"

This is precisely what you're saying. You're trying, albeit cleverly, to twist the game circumstances for (I assume) your own purposes. Stop it.

Look. I don't care about your semantics. Town can lynch mothrax for free today. The only question worth asking is, "Is mothrax a good lynch?"

Q1. Given the opportunity, would you vig a player N0?
Q2. Do you think mothrax is town?

[Magua]

Just throwing this out there: What if AGM is lying?

Then he gets lynched D2, and that would be win.

Now, the two questions for you NS:

Q1. Would you vig someone N0?
Q2. Do you think mothrax is town?

Paramas arrogance and rage is a town-tell, Magua you should know better than to vote him here.

If you think my vote is scum-motivated, feel free to vote me. Otherwise, my vote goes where I damn well please.

Parama can do tunneling and arrogant. Parama does this in Consulmaker II, so I'm familiar with that. (Parama spent pretty much the entirety of the game tunneling on a single town.) I'm not familiar with Parama-scum play, but, then again, my vote isn't on Parama for meta-reasons to begin with.

[Magua]

1) If I were 1-shot, no. If I were unlimited, yes.

Great. So assume that AlmasterGM N0 vigged mothrax, except, now, the town has to agree or it didn't happen.

[Magua]

Yes, it is one-shot, yes, it is today only. That changes nothing of what I said.

Assume that AlmasterGM N0 vigged mothrax, except, now, the town has to agree or it didn't happen.

Does town agree? Mothrax is dead, costing us nothing. Just like if Almaster vigged him N0.
Does town not agree? Nothing happens.

[Magua]

<_<
>_>

Also mothrax is town so it's irrelevant.

Do you think this because VasudeVa thinks he should be lynched, or for some other reason?

[Magua]

So, Magua, what are you asking me? If I agree? No, I think it's too early to tell mothrax's alignment.

Not asking you anything. You say it's different. I show how the end result is the same. End of story, really, as far as I'm concerned.

But the more I think about it, the more I think that Faraday is right about mothrax.

So...now, in the spirit of ASOS being over:

Dayvig: Parama

He'll flip scum, and I can get confirmed as town for the rest of the game. Plan is flawless.

[Magua]

Magua, I don't think your vote is scum-motivated merely misguided. Can you elaborate into what makes you believe Parama is mafia? Also, what's your read on Hito?

See little point in talking about Parama now until the flip.

Hito is a lot of setup speculation (which is fine, I enjoy it). I don't like his Almaster-is-scum stance, and I find cognitive dissonance between "Almaster's power is horribad for town" and his first post being "Let's policy lynch Nobody Special." However, I do like his calling Faraday town and his calling Parama scum.

So leaning town. If Parama flips scum, much more town.

[Magua]

I thought that was a reaction-test by you, christ why would you waste the dayvig shot this early into the day.

No point in reactiontesting someone like Parama, or, likely, anyone in this room. No, I took the shot because I'm tired of overthinking my gut reads.

Magua's kill was very real. He'll have to post like a mute from now on sadly.

*doesn't think that's true at all*

*just needs to put asterisks around everything*

*also*

*spreads hands wide*

[Magua]

gassssssssssssp.
I was gonna ask you about why Duplicity-scum but PoE-wise it makes sense.

PoE-wise? Seriously?

There's 22 players left. In the neighborhood of 5-6 scum.

Does that not seem a *wee* bit early to be invoking PoE as an explanation?

[Magua]

Lot of very likely town players at this stage, I think.

You have 12+ townreads? Care to list them for me, in one easily ISO-able place like your next post?

[Magua]

Magua/Equinox/DDD are weaker town reads.

I'm shooting scum. That should be a much larger towntell.

But, I like you. And not just for your accent this time.

[Magua]

Shooting scum is a scumtell. You were lynched for it and Hascow was scum. OUTPLAYED.

Good game, sir. Good game.

He didn't shoot scum so <.<
He didn't shoot so >.>

*snores*

[Magua]

My logic:
1. Magua is scum
2. Scum wouldn't have a public daykill
3. Magua doesn't have a public daykill
4. Magua didn't shoot

In case scum does somehow have a public daykill, please take out magua, quadz, and vv, in that order. Thanks

So, and I want to make sure that this is understood, after you're dead, everyone should find #2 to be more likely to be false than #1?

[Magua]

You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.

I had actually sent Vi a PM about this this morning; have not gotten a response yet. Is this your reading, or is it verified somehow?

If it's the case that it's just a faith total, there's still a workable plan, the details of which should be obvious to hito but which shouldn't be made public until D2 to keep the scum from planning ahead. Assuming hito isn't scum, which I'm still doing.

@Parama:

k, just verifying. I'm actually getting to the point where I'm not regretting you dying even if you flip town.

[Magua]

Unrelated: You know how town Faraday thinks mothrax is? That's how town I think Nicki Minaj is.

[Magua]

We PM'd Vi about it in pre-game. That was the response.

If the workable plan involves everyone claiming faith and domains and interpolating the faith for each domain that way, it's not a very good plan.

Given the 19-20 data points (players) we'll have over an average number of variables (domains) of 2, I disagree. I think it's a very good plan. *Especially* if scum lie.

But we can argue about that D2.

[Magua]

While you're here, what do you think of Duplicity's case on VPB?

I actually agree with his case on VPB; if I had to vote between VPB and Duplicity, I would certainly vote VPB at this point.

I definitely don't see the case as terribad as you do.

Distancing-Duplicity-scum voting VPBaltar-scum-partner also sort of implies VasudeVa-town. Do you believe that?

[Magua]

Which parts of it do you think are good?

Your push on quadz:

He really seems to be slow at loosening up here...though I admittedly have no experience with him. Does he always play defensively like this when he's town?

This reads as, "Here's scummy thing X...though I'll waffle about whether X means he's scum or not. I end by asking a question that I could answer myself if I cared enough to look."

Sottyrulez claiming miller is blah to me. Decent chance they are town, but they really need to be after the scum and get NKed for me to feel completely safe with that claim.

This is the same thing. This actually says nothing. Is "need[ing] to be after the scum" only something that millers should be doing? No, obviously not. This says the claim doesn't change your read on Sotty at all, but you don't give a read on Sotty or Sotty's posts. You just take this roundabout and kind of dirt-throwing way of saying Sotty is null.

You ask DDD if he thinks there should be a mass domain claim even though you soon follow that up with the fact that you think it's probably a good idea in #138. (This also includes a "I could look it up but I'm not going to"-type question.)

A bunch of fluffy posts. Yes, you could be sussing out Magna's alignment, or you could just be padding. I can't see the difference, and lacking any results one way or the other, I'm leaning the latter.

Of your reads, I agree on Gamma-town. I (obviously) disagree on Parama-town. I vacillate on Quadz-scum. And that's about the extent of your reads. Which is a problem, you having 28 posts and all.

In SA II, you were a big town leader and not scared of anything. Here you're playing your cards decidedly closer to your chest.

[Magua]

In case you think it's not clear, I think it's very likely quadz is scum (dont' see how I've waivered on that at all).

It's *my* scumread on quadz that vacillates.

Hence why my vote hasn't moved. I find the points you're making kind of ludicrous to say the least. The sotty point is confusing at best...I'm stating I'm suspicious of their miller claim, but I will of course not judge them based on that alone. What's wrong wtih that again?

It's the difference between saying "Sotty's miller claim is null" and "Sotty is probably town but I'm not going to trust them until they're NKed (implying that I may lynch them if they're not)"

Similarly, why shouldn't I ask DDD his opinion on domain strategy? He's a good strategist and I wanted to see what his response was.

Because you don't voice your opinion, you ask him his, and when he gives it, you *then* voice your opinion that disagrees. The whole exchange feels like you already had an answer in mind you wanted to head towards, not that were actually soliciting someone's opinion.

Additionally, I could see several people in this game that your same argument would apply to (though maybe they have fewer posts), so why does that specifically make me scum?

Two things.
1: This is the scummiest defense ever. "Why me and not that other guy." I'm really surprised to see it from you.
2: You asked why I thought *you* were scummy. I answered with what I found scummy about *you*. Other people don't enter into that conversation.

[Magua]

re:quadz - you said I was waffling, which isn't true.

I said *I* was waffling on quadz. Reread. You waffle on whether the first thing you call him out on is scummy (exact quote: "He really seems to be slow at loosening up here...though I admittedly have no experience with him"), but you never waffle with your vote on him.

meh. I think dup's case is fucking awful for how generic and fluffy it is. You follow up his case with somewhat unrelated matters that are equally fluffy. The reason I say it could apply to anyone is because it could. I'm asking why you think it's stand out for me. Is it just because I was a leader in SAII? I think that's pretty limited meta to say the least. I think other people can certainly enter the equation when you're being that generic in your scumhunting.

Do you think Duplicity is scum?

Do you think I'm scum?

How/why are you so sure? Share with the class.

Assume that AlmasterGM is lying about it being a double day if mothrax is lynched.
Assume that mothrax is lynched.

Almaster is now shown to be lying. What's going to happen?

He's going to be lynched the next day. What will he have gained? He'll have traded himself in a 1:1 trade for mothrax. Is that a good scum move? No, it is not. So the only rational move is to assume that the person isn't lying, because if they're lying, then they have made things worse for themselves, regardless of their alignment.

It's like claiming that you're a super-saint in lylo. You're just guaranteeing that you get lynched.

[Magua]

Real quick: Nicki is right (of course); just got the response from Vi that we only get faith totals, not domain totals.

This makes things more difficult, but that discussion is D2.

Disagree with hitogoroshi on worships. You should worship. Worshipping is likely to help 3-4 town (including yourself), and 1 scum. The key is that we want to spread the worships around.

Night actions seems simple:

If you didn't worship N0, use whatever faith you get to cast something. By "something" I would say "protections on Nicki Minaj" followed by "information" followed by "whatever".

If you did worship N0, or you don't have enough faith to cast *anything*, you should worship. If your total faith is 3 or less, worship one of your own domains. If your total faith is 4+, you are best off worshipping one of your non-domains, and if your total faith is 6+, you're best off worshipping the opposite of one of your domains (this is under the assumption that no one has a domain and its opposite).

I agree with Nicki that the scum probably have every domain covered, but probably do not stack on domains. Therefore, our goal is to spread out the worship as much as possible -- that helps the town the most and helps the scum the least. Working from the assumption that the domains are already kind of spread out, its best to stick to your own domains -- the assumption here being the case where it's obvious that scum are worshipping your domain (that is, your faith level is 3 or above).

The day-kill is sadly fake, as Parama (and Gammagooey, and likely Faraday and Nicki and hitogoroshi) already surmised. Parama's reactions, frankly, leave a lot to be desired out of the whole thing. Not the "let me do stuff while I'm alive," more the "Wait and see if I should bother." Poor test is poor, but it amused me, and in the end, that's what counts. I'm keeping my vote on Parama.

Faraday's right on mothrax, I think. We should not use the PL on him. And I swear to the skies above, Nicki Minaj is town.

[Magua]

but also a DGB who gets some ridiculous bonus from making a fake daykill gambit, because we all know DGB loves those.

I did enjoy it, yes. I will likely do it again.

Maybe even during this Day.

@Parama:

Is hitogoroshi scum? What about Plum?

[Magua]

i;ll do shit asked of me when i sober up. you're all fucking annoying me. quadz should be dead.

We're not lynching quadz until mothrax has either posted some actual content or been replaced.

Also, either singersigner's scum game is to look three times as town as her town game, or she's town. I feel the latter.

[Magua]

@Gammagooey, Faraday, Demonic Angel:

Kindly shut the fuck up if you have nothing of use to say.

Thanks in advance.

(I still <3 you all. But, no, seriously. Stop.)

[Magua]

@Quadz:

I'm interested in your thought process throughout these three posts of yours:

Yes, seriously. I have null reads on all 3 of them [Parama, VasudeVa, Plum], actually. Nothing real scummy, nothing real townie. No reason for me to waste space bringing them up.

btw, I would approve of a Parama lynch based on VI/anti-town-ness. See: Parama's most recent post.

As to Parama, his reaction to the vig thing was, well, null. Honestly, his reaction was how any intelligent player, town or scum, should react.

If you find Parama's vig-response to be null, what is it you do find about his play to be antitown?
What was it that Parama did that made you move him from null to antitown?

[Magua]

I want to wait for Quadz's answers about my questions on Parama, but I'll hijack this to say that here:

People that are scum but not nearly as clearly obvious ubar scum as the above: singer, nicki minaj

You are dead wrong. Both of these are town. Please stop being wrong in the future.

[Magua]

We shouldn't be claiming worships. With three kills, the possibility of being able to narrow down a liar to within three people is reduced, any confirmed non-liar group we can get at this point is probably just going to get gunned down tonight.

Besides, since I'm assuming most town worshipped N0 and N1, this will be the first night they can cast something, and so they probably will. I doubt there'll be a lot of worshipping going on tonight besides the mafia, which removes the other side of the claiming, so people know what they should be worshipping.

I'll reread Equinox and Duplicity later; Duplicity in particular I find to be a weird kill, because he was firmly in the middle of the pack yesterday in terms of being suspected. Nicki Minaj's kill flavor is odd, especially with them flipping as Vi, but I'm willing to wait till D3 to see if it repeats itself or if it was one-off.

In the meantime, Faraday is still town. Gammagooey is still town.

[Magua]

Quadz is a scum neighbourisers. Discussion over.

No.

Not even possible.

Scum either worshipped N0 or did nothing in preparation to cast.

Scum who worshipped N0 had to worship N1, could not cast.

Scum who didn't worship have something much better to do than cast neighborize.

So:
1) singersigner is scum with quadz (unlikely)
2) quadz cast neighborize, which means he didn't cast something that was actually useful for the scum
3) quadz has neighborizer as an ability, not a cast, which is, I suppose, the only way he could still be scum

singersigner: Is your neighbor QT daytalk?

Actually, quadz should just fullclaim in the thread now. N0 and N1 actions, full role abilities, etc.

[Magua]

If he's talking to you in the QT, tell him he needs to post in this thread.

[Magua]

Gamma: You need to stop with the hyperventilation. Seriously. Now, riddle me this: is singersigner town or scum?

[Magua]

Magua, DDD:

Agree or disagree with this statement: "A player with over 3 faith N1 who worships one or both of Justice or Balance should claim their domains and N1 faith."

Erm. Are you trying to tell if Justice/Balance got juiced by scum? Because of ooba's claim?

I think a better way to go about that is, seeing as he's already claimed his domains, we should ask him:

@ooba:

How much faith did you have N1?

[Magua]

Doublepost: Scum almost certainly have daytalk because the neighbors have daytalk, and VPB's #681 is almost certainly a scumslip.

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Magua]

Doublepost: Scum almost certainly have daytalk because the neighbors have daytalk, and VPB's #681 is almost certainly a scumslip.

So I say scum probably have daytalk, which was pointed out in the rules, and you say I'm scum because I said that. This is probably the first dumb thing I've ever heard you say Magua. Congrats.

You say they *do* have daytalk, which is *not* pointed out in the rules. In addition to that, when it's pointed out that it's not in the rules, your reaction isn't "Vi games always have daytalk", it's "Vi games always have daytalk and I would never make such a mistake and you're being an idiot."

It's that last part that seals it.

So, anyways, I'm really not liking the quadz lynch. It's too many people just repeatedly saying "quadz is scum" over and over and any argument is responded to with "quadz is still scum".

That said, I'm not sure I like the DA wagon at this point any better. I'm getting flashbacks to MoCO here, with the scum just pushing after the weaker players and town not bothering to try to differentiate scummy behavior from actual scum behavior.

Claiming of worships/domains is bad. However,

@ooba

, you've already claimed your domains. So claim your N1 faith, please. Don't need actions, don't need anything else, just want the faith total.

[Magua]

DA's slip is basically in the same camp as VP's. Why is VP's scummier?

I don't see a DA slip. Are you referring to this:

@AGM: He's busy raging in our QT about CYS.

Assumed that was some form of hydra QT when I read it.

If you meant something else, you need to show it to me.

Quadz is scum because he's done nothing and that was also his reasoning for going after DDD. (so now he can look like he is doing something.) The only thing that makes going after him today different from d1 is that he has a nice shiny looking roleclaim with action to throw in to make people waiver on lynching him.

Quadz-scum had much better targets to try to deflect to than DDD. Quadz's attempt on DDD does read as deflection (it's all "lynch him not me") but I do get the feeling that his suspicion on DDD is at least sincere.

[Magua]

"
Exact role name is High Priest/Priestess of Zorblag.
"

Vi was a High Priest/Ess due to his gender ambiguity. TROLL?

High Priest/Priestess is because it's a hydra with a male and a female. As was Nicki Minaj.

Fate. Put the caps lock away and shut up if you don't have anything useful to say. I will replace out if you can't. kthxbai.

[Magua]

HERE I"LL HELP YOU BY POSTING IN ALL CAPS.

NOW GO AND HOP ON THIS TRAIN DAY FUCKCING TWO, AND SAY 'POLICY' SO YOU CAN SHOW EVERYONE YOUR TRUE COLORS. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MORE ANTI-TOWN THAT ANYTHING IVE DONE, INCLUDING A FAKE MASON CLAIM, YOU FUCKTARD. HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME? REPLACE OUT. NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO, SO MAYBE YOURE THE ONE THAT DOESNT PLAY WITH OTHERS.

NOW COME AT ME

This contains nothing useful.

ARE YOU SAYING I HAD NOTHING USEFUL AT ALL IN MY LAST POST?

HURRR DURRRR

GUESS YOU NEED TO REPLACE OUT THEN. PLENTY ON THE LIST WAITING TO HAVE FUN WHO DONT HAVE A STICK UP THEIR ASS

I'm saying the part I quoted where you go caps lock bullshit had nothing useful. In fact, every single thing you've posted in all caps has had nothing useful. You should go back and reread what I said, because I do not think it is what you think it is.

And, now, realize that I play this game to have fun, and you running around calling people fucktards is not my idea of fun.

[Magua]

Hey Magua, why is it that you have nothing to say about the quadz claim even though you called for it? I'd like your assessment of his abilities please.

You missed post #743 then. I believe his claim. I don't think he makes sense as scum to have used a neighborizer power.

[Magua]

It makes sense when you are scum neighborizer and neighborize is your ability.

No, it doesn't. If you're doomed scum who is going to get lynched the next day, it's better to worship one of your scumbuddies' domains so that they can do stuff than to neighborize someone who's hardly a leading voice in the town.

THe only possibilities I see are:
1) Quadz is town and did what he said, that is, he neighborized singersigner, or
2) Quadz and singersigner are mafia together

2 does not seem likely.

[Magua]

Can anyone tell me anything about Magua as a player? Like is he a lot better known than I think he is because I had never seen his name mentioned before this game; has he played in any/several Vi games before? Any sort of information along those lines would be appreciated.

I'm terrible. I only got into this game because Vi confused my name when I /in'ed with Magna's.

My games are on my wiki page -- the only other Vi game I've played was Mafia of the Chosen Ones

Magua, were you neighbors with Hito?

No. I'm not neighbors with anyone.

Fun fact the second: So I was wrong on the quadz-lynch-being-pushed-by-opportunistic scum. I was right that there's no way that quadz-scum would neighborize someone instead of doing something more productive with his time, like killing.

Looking over quadz's claim, I don't think the casts were faked; I think those were actually what he had available. Note that the kill is conditional -- it only works on Good players. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the scum kills are like that -- only usable on those of a certain alignment, who worship a certain domain, or who satisfy certain conditions (like Scumputer and the being-last-on-the-wagon). For reference, I have a kill-cast that's non-conditional -- I use it and the target dies. I think that's going to be one of the main differentiators between scum and town.

However, for the time being, this leads me to believe that massclaiming anything at this point is a bad idea.

Despite that, I'd like VP Baltar to claim his N2 action.

[Magua]

Um, why exactly?

Because I want to see if you're going to lie about it.

[Magua]

Split scum teams is an incentive to neighborize people you think are other scum.. Your thoughts on that theory?

Split scum teams is doubtful. First, in the other Vi games with split scum teams, the teams were differentiated (Shadow Demons and Dark Demons, eg).

Second, how do you imagine that conversation goes? "Hi, neighbor! Um, this is kind of awkward, but...I'm scum. So...um...are you scum too?"

No, my guess is that quadz worshipped both nights.

Implying you know my night action. Which, if you actually do have an insight into any potential action I took last night ( who I targeted, what action I used etc.) I'm unsure of why you're asking me to claim.

Sorry, that's not entirely clear. If you have insight, you should know I'm town is what i"m saying.

Then why don't you let everyone else know how town you are too?

[Magua]

Frankly, I don't think you have the sway to bully night actions. So, I suggest you give me a better reason than that brosef. How's about this, since you apparently do know my night action last night, give me a reason why you doubt it was a town action. If I think it's a legit doubt, I will claim my night action last night. Deal?

I prefer my plan where you claim your night action, so I can tell if you're lying about it or not. I like that element of tension.

[Magua]

Additionally, I hope you realize that if I claim, you damn well better be prepared to full claim as well.

I don't want you to fullclaim. I want you to claim last night's action only. Not your casts, not your domains, not your alignment.

[Magua]

Potentially putting a target on my back for a NK

Stop it, you're turning me on.

[Magua]

Like I said, get some town cred son, then get back to me.

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Magua]

If there was a busser on Quadz, my money is on Demonic.

Also... WHERE THE HELL ARE THE PLUM VOTES? Like... srsly.

Assuming there are six tigers, there's definitively a busser on quadz. Likely two.

But I don't think it's Demonic Angel. DA reads too town to me.

End of D1 votecount:

quadz08

(L-2) ~

mothrax

, Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Seraphim,

Gammagooey

, Katsuki, Faraday,

singersigner

, Parama, ooba
Parama (L-9) ~ Magua,

hitogoroshi

, Plum

VasudeVa

(L-10) ~ MagnaofIllusion, sottyrulez
VP Baltar (L-10) ~

Duplicity

,

Nicki Minaj

mothrax

(L-11) ~ AlmasterGM
MagnaofIllusion (L-11) ~

VasudeVa

Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-11) ~

quadz08

Demonic Angel (L-11) ~ RayFrost

Not Voting: Nobody Special,

Equinox

End of D2 votecount:

quadz08

(LYNCH) ~ VP Baltar, Parama, ooba, sottyrulez, Faraday, Demonic Angel,

Gammagooey

, Seraphim, AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro
Demonic Angel (L-8) ~ RayFrost, MagnaofIllusion
Parama (L-8) ~ Plum,

hitogoroshi

VP Baltar (L-9) ~ Magua,

quadz08

Not Voting: Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nobody Special,

singersigner

,

VasudeVa

The three flipped scum have spread out votes, usual for D1. I do not expect that there's more than one scum on any wagon except for quadz's.

I actually have a townread on Plum that I didn't have before the quadz flip, heavily influenced by #929 and by the hitogoroshi/Plum proximity in the votes. I think it's pretty obvious that singersigner claimed to have daytalking neighbor with quadz because the scum do, indeed, have daytalk, it makes it unlikely that anyone who came out and attacked the *claim first* rather than quadz's behavior would be a partner.

In between the D1 and D2 quadz wagons, the differences are minimal -- mothrax dies, singersigner drops off the D2 wagon and is replaced by sottyrulez. Obviously, I suspect VP Baltar to be simply hardcore bussing. Second after that would be ooba or Seraphim, but those are more PoE than actual scumreads at this point.

I would expect there to be one scum in (RayFrost, MagnaofIllusion). I lean in favor of RayFrost being the scum.

Pedit:

Massclaim is bad at this point. The only claims I want to see today are:
1) VP Baltar's night action
2) People saying what domain (*not* domains) they want worshipped so that we can worship the domains of our townreads.

Oh, and I probably didn't say it explicitly enough, but I really don't see VP bussing quadz.

Why not?

[Magua]

Call it a gut feeling coupled with the fact that there seemed to be a lot more interest in VP's "slip" than in yours and it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy about your slot.

Good news is if you're actually town, it's possible we'll run out of scum to lynch long before we get to a point of actually wanting to lynch you.

Illuminate me about DA's slip.

The method and style of his play in the way he went after quadz seems consistent from what I expect from VP town. Also he had plenty of opportunities to leave the wagon... and no matter how hard someone might bus as scum, in a roleclaim who's entire purpose is to seed doubt, you would think that if there was multiple scum on the wagon, one of them might unvote to fuel doubt in the town. So, I really don't see it. (Should actually bump Demonic up my OTHERS list thinking about it.)

The only person who left the wagon was AlmasterGM, and I've got a pretty good townread on Almaster. I think it's more a matter of the scum on the wagon either deciding to bus it for all its worth, or, waiting to see if the wagon falls apart, rather than being the first one off of it.

[Magua]

As has been pointed out by a few others, I was referring to Demonic Angel's ISO 40.

Missed that. "Every other townray game"?

Mmmm. I completely read over it when I read it, reading the meaning as intended, I suppose. Odd slip for a scum to make -- DA is trying to say that RayFrost isn't playing like he normally does when he's town. Still think DA is town.

Look at this from my perspective.

You: Voting VP
Plum: Voting VP
Magna: Voting VP

You know what you all have in common? You were all opposed to the quadz wagon to some degree.

Yes. In fact, you could get all the people who weren't on quadz D2 and are still alive:

RayFrost
MagnaofIllusion
Plum
Magua
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Nobody Special

How many scum do you think are in this group? I mean, if no one was bussing quadz, then game is pretty much won, yes? Do you think that's the case?

However, singersigner doesn't strike me as the eager busser type, and singersigner was on quadz's lynch D1. I think that only occurs if SS is being told to do it, or is following previous bussers at a distance.

[Magua]

I need to read through this some more, but I have a feeling that Magua vs VP is town-on-town and that Magua should bring up reasonable doubt before forcing VP to claim.

If you think I am town, then you have to conclude that I feel I have a reasonable reason to have VP claim.

Massclaim is a BAD IDEA right now. The only possible gain is attributing kills and in such a vig-heavy game, there is no need of that. The only thing I could see us claiming is domains or what domains should be worshiped tonight. Coordinating worships is going to become important later on. Also, I know there was a lot of talk about alignment on Day 1, in regards to Nicki's role...does anyone have any additional insight into that? I feel like it's important but it hasn't really been discussed.

Alignment claim is a terrible idea because it doesn't help town at all, and it is highly likely that a number of scum powers are alignment-conditional. Full domain claim is similarly a terrible idea. People should just say which domain or domains (preferably, single domain) they want people to worship.

[Magua]

That's the thing: I don't trust you. Plus, if it is town-on-town, you've just outed yourself and VP. I think you need to outline your reasoning or at least vaguely hint at it or something.

If you don't trust me, it's hard to believe you find this to be town on town.

As for "outting myself", I have outted that I have a cast, that it is investigative in nature, that I used it on VPB, and that what I got back is incriminating.

Whoop-de-shit.

Obviously, my report is not 100% incriminating by itself, or I would've just outted it rather than asking. It is only incriminating if VPB's claim disagrees with it.

Meh, I think Magua is town out of the quadz backers, so I'd like to prob straighten out whatever BS he's confused about. Let me just be clear, by N2 you mean last night correct? Not the second night N1. The problem with me claiming is that you need to out yourself after because I'm not simply going to let you force a claim and not provide damn good reasoning as to why you requested it.

Yes. N2. Last night. Not N1.

[Magua]

I shot hitogoroshi last night. So that's 3/3 of my dead scum reads that have flipped scum. Again, don't see in any way how you think that makes me scum. Any other people out there with vig abilities should not claim, fyi.

Great. You agree with my report.

If you want it, I'll tell you what my report was.

[Magua]

Also, I wouldn't mind being powered up for more shooting tonight now that one of my abilities has been outted.

Give me a domain to worship.

Yeah, let's get it out there.

I got the nature of the action that you took, but not the target. The report I got back was that you killed, but not whom.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar

VOTE: RayFrost

[Magua]

:VPTOWN:

Why Ray over Plum Magua?

I find Plum to be town; I go into it in #1083. Of the non-quadz voters (of which I am also a member), I find RayFrost to be the scummiest and Magna to be the second-scummiest. I find Plum to be the least scummy other than myself.

FUCKING DAMMIT STOP VOTING RAYFROST. WE'RE NOT LYNCHING HIM TODAY.

Who would you prefer to lynch?

And you wish someone to vote ooba, even if they then remove the vote in the next post? I want to make sure I have that correct. Oh, Faraday beat me to it.

I'm debating if I should just claim both of my domains...that way town members can worship whichever domain helps themselves and me in the process. This is a precautionary measure in case I die, which is likely now. Additionally, since I have the target on my back, I will claim all my night actions if people think it's beneficial. I'll keep my abilities and alignment to myself for now.

I'm of the belief that there are six scum, and each covers two of the domains. Compare your domains to the traits that you'd associate with DGB, hitogoroshi, and Fate. Ideally, there'll be a match there, and I'd out one of those domains.

[Magua]

So if I vote ooba and then unvote, that'll "fix" it?

What if I vote ooba, unvote, and then vote Ray again?

[Magua]

Before we lynch, VP needs to tell me a domain to worship.

Seraph, is your thing with Ray on or off? Does "least voted" count dead players or something?

[Magua]

Seraph, is your thing with Ray on or off? Does "least voted" count dead players or something?

What do you mean "off or on"? It does not count dead players.

If it doesn't count dead players, then we should simply be able to vote everyone other than your target, I presume RayFrost, enough times, yes?

@Faraday:

The better way to do it is to make people worship -- set a worship plan in stone. That way, you get accountability. If you just go "half and half", then not only do you not ensure that you'll get 50/50 (you might get 70/30 even with 100% participation) but if, eg, it becomes obvious that only 10 of the 13 people worshipped, you still have no starting point for "who".

Whereas if you say, "Magua, Plum, ooba worship Solipsism", and then someone with Solipsism reports they only got two faith, well, you know there's one person in the group not playing along. Obviously, this should only be done for the players that are under more suspicion.

[Magua]

What? We go from #943 to #1178 in a day, and the battery drops 15%?

Fucking shenanigans, that's what that is.

So based on this claim and subsequent information given you used you Battery decrease power N1 to give yourself 5 Faith N2 to cast your kill shot. So it is safe to assume your kill shot takes at least 3 Faith, correct?

Enlighten me on why you care.

[Magua]

Shouldn't've fullclaimed, IMO. Should've just setup a plan where you got 6-7 worships.

Battery drain is fine. I foresee a slight problem in that we did over 200 posts today and still lost 1/6th of the battery -- that could lead to a 3 day Day tomorrow if the pattern still holds, but this is workable by simply preplanning things today.

Plan is going to go down one of two ways: Either we all-eggs-one-basket by having 7+ (account for scum who won't do as they're told) people worship Baltar while he drains the battery, or we split it into two groups of seven, one of which is Baltar + 6 worshippers and the other is probably ooba at this point, though I'm still sketchy on him.

All-VPB-all-the-time has the risk that if VPB dies tonight, we likely have nothing to show for it; splitting it up into groups of 7 is probably the better plan. Likely means that Baltar won't get his triple vig shot even if he lives, though.

I'm fine with being a Solism worshipper for VPB, btw.

[Magua]

Why are we splitting worships? Wouldn't it be better if we focus on charging VP up, and ooba second?

All eggs. One basket.

Actually, here's a relevant thought experiment: Y'all think scum kills count as casts?

The scum absolutely have a kill, probably a factional one, that is an ability and does not require faith. As does the SK.

[Magua]

I meant prioritizing. As in, not 50/50 split.

I await concrete details of your plan.

In the meantime, I'd like Faraday and Almaster to tell me if they think ooba is town or not.

[Magua]

I think both ooba and I would probably like a Magua name-claim; no claiming of domains, casts, abilities, or alignment. Just a name; I think we’re seeing the same thing and I at least would like to slide Magua into the town side of things for sure after the VPB inquisition.

It is seeming pretty obvious to me that it is not difficult to jump from a name to a group of three or so domains that may be associated with that player.

I also utterly fail to see how a nameclaim will help make you feel any better about me.

[Magua]

No Magua, I'm not going to tell you what I am or am not looking for.

k then.

Do you think ooba is town?

[Magua]

No, I'm appealing to a player I think is scum for an assist, what do you think?

You could use a little more direct object declaration. I have no idea which player you mean, nor what you mean by "an assist".

The best I can come up with is that you're referring to when you say you and ooba would both like me to nameclaim. I thought it curious as to why you'd mention him (of all people) there, instead of VPB, where I can at least see the relation. But even that doesn't really make sense, because there's no "assist" involved.

tl, dr: Elaborate more.

In other news, yes, yes, VPB could be the SK, we know. At this point, it completely doesn't matter. Discuss it D5 or something if he's still alive.

[Magua]

Great.

Here's the plan:

14 people.
Divide them into two groups: Team VPB and Team ooba. Utterly don't care about how the division is done, except VPB is on Team VPB and ooba is on Team ooba. Given VPB's faith requirements + battery power, it's probably safer to put scummy people on his team (he only needs to get 2 worshippers for 2 vig shots). Other than that, utterly don't care how the teams are divided up. Here's a sample, if you're going to say it sucks, provide a counterexample:

Team VPB: VP Baltar, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Demonic Angel, Magua, Plum, RayFrost, sottyrulez
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM, Faraday, MagnaofIllusion, Nobody Special, Parama, Seraphim
** Teams may have to be adjusted when we decide on a lynch; Team VPB should end up with 6 people, Team ooba should have 7.

Team VPB worships Solism (VPB drains the battery)
Team ooba worships Justice or Balance
- If you have a protective cast/ability that you can use, do that on VPB.
- Seraphim, if you're going to do your PGO cast, do it on ooba.

VPB only requires 2/5 (who aren't him) to follow the plan to get 2 vig shots.
ooba's requirements are hazy, but I'm going to assume he requires 4/6 (who aren't him) to follow the plan to be useful, might be more.

[Magua]

Since I only need two worships for my double vig, I wouldn't mind having two v. likely town and the rest v. likely scum on my team. That way the scum are either forced to worship Solism or build more incriminating data against themselves. Thoughts?

Given VPB's faith requirements + battery power, it's probably safer to put scummy people on his team (he only needs to get 2 worshippers for 2 vig shots).

=P

VPB, decide whether you'd prefer the hypothetical doc protect or the hypothetical PGO and direct Seraphim appropriately.

2. Moderation – Any cast that takes more than 2 faith are blocked that Night.

...

N2 I used Moderation – my theory being that scum are more likely to have generated concentrated faith for themselves and thus were more likely to be benefited by large faith casts than Town.

I'm going to assume from your phrasing that Moderation is a global effect that affects everyone? Ie, you do not target a specific player with it?

The problem I have with your claim is that there were *four* kills last night. That requires there to be *four* kills in the game that are factional in nature, or require two faith or less. I can see two factional kills (mafia, SK). I'm having a lot more trouble seeing two kills for two faith or less.

You seem to be concentrating entirely on VPB's claim, but not thinking about how or why there'd be these four kills with your effect going off. What's your theory for all the kills?

[Magua]

grr, now that I'm thinking of it, I could see a town player blocking MoI after his shittiness on the quadz lynch. Bleh. He might be telling the truth. Maybe we should lynch Plum today.

Much bigger townread on Plum than on MoI. I know I'm alone in that, but still.

I don't believe MoI's claim. His tone goes from "VPB is scum / VPB is scum unless I was blocked / VPB is scum", showing he's cognizant of the possibility but dismisses it. Eg, MoI still goes "It's ok VPB - when I flip Town you are going to hang as scum. Don't fight it .. the noose is coming sooner or later for you." after RayFrost said his cast was unblocked, reads to me like dismissing the possibility entirely.

Secondly, if I had Donation, I'd be identifying my biggest townread and setting up a plan where I netted them a lot of faith. Eg, with ooba already out for a Justice + Balance worship, I'd be like, "Hell yeah. Everyone worship Balance." Magna never talks about ooba's call for Justice + Balance worship.

Finally, though I'm getting mod-WIFOMy here, every other claim has had four casts.

[Magua]

1. Your prescribed plan doesn’t work as I can’t donate any Balance Faith I get to ooba since he shares that Domain with me.

Not to ooba. To your choice of townread. It's not a plan you would execute now. It's a plan I'd expect you to have talked about D1 when ooba first mentioned Justice/Balance worships.

2. Yeah, pure Mod WIFOM. I expected better of you.

Have no idea why. I <3 setup speculation.

As for your whole paragraph about VPB - I've had a gut scum-read on him since Day 1. I've too often let that fall away in light of 'evidence' in the past and am not going to this game. Sorry you don't like it.

I had a gut scumread on VPB since D1 as well. But my reads get modified by the evidence, not held in spite of it. Yeah, yeah, sucks when it's hasdgfas in ASoS. I will fall for that trick. Every time. But VPB-scum here makes no sense. VPB-SK makes potential sense, but there's no way VPB-SK is winning this game now.

[Magua]

The Plan

Going with ooba's list here:
Team VPB: VP Baltar, Demonic Angel, sottyrulez, Parama, Seraphim, Faraday
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM, MagnaofIllusion, Nobody Special, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Plum, RayFrost


1) AlmasterGM - Worship Balance/Justice
2) Debonair Danny DiPietro - Worship Balance/Justice
5) Faraday - Worship Solism
8) Demonic Angel - Worship Solism
9) MagnaofIllusion - Worship Balance/Justice
10) Magua - Do whatever the person who gets lynched was supposed to do
13) Nobody Special - Worship Balance/Justice
14) ooba - Worship Balance/Justice
15) Parama - Worship Solism
16) Plum - Worship Balance/Justice
18) RayFrost - Worship Balance/Justice
19) Seraphim - PGO cast on VPB
21) sottyrulez - Worship Solism
23) VP Baltar - Drain battery

- Acceptable deviation: If you have a protective ability/cast you can use, protect ooba

[Magua]

No, Solism is not one of my domains.

[Magua]

Why?

Look.

VP-is-SK makes no sense with the abilities that VP has claimed.

You gain 5 Faith from draining the battery. 5 Faith gives you, with the claimed abilities, one kill. That's one kill every two Days. Assuming you can get two worship from other places, that's two kills which is one kill every Day.

Do you think that VPB killed N1?

Do you think that VPB killed N1 *and* was able to influence the battery? If so, why not do the battery thing again today?

VPB could be SK due to his behavior, but not due to the abilities he posted. You can postulate that draining the battery does something completely different than giving him faith, which is very temporary and makes no sense for an SK. You could argue that he's scum, except that doesn't fit in with the observed behavior.

But that's all it is, postulating. And given the high chance that VPB will simply be dead tomorrow, arguing about it now is highly pointless.

[Magua]

One Factional kill for SK + one extra action (battery drain or cast for kill) makes sense.
N1: Kill + Use Battery for faith
N2: Kill + Use accumulated faith to cast a kill
Tell me why this does not make sense.

Tell me the gameplan for VPB claiming as SK. Tell me how this gets to him winning.

What we need to be worried about is scum getting juiced. Scum can get juiced, do some megacast badness that fucks us over, get lynched, and *still win*. SK cannot. This makes scum the priority. This is why VPB-as-SK does not concern me at this point. If I thought VPB-as-scum was plausible, that would concern me.

[Magua]

@Sottyrulez:

Is singersigner worshipped Justice the only information you have?

Oh and Plum is town.

Agreed.

Do either Furcolow or Yosarian seem like players with likely Hider / Weak Doctor roles to you? I’ve been mulling over the jump from 3 kills to 4 last Night and that’s the one element I can come up with to answer the swing.

I know who my slot is, and I still don't get how the abilities line up. So I don't think any sort of speculation about what sorts of effects the dead might have is worthwhile.

Alternate win con: Cast of 7 power - win the game. (or) In other words, get 2 people to worship Solism and you win.

No. Just, no.

I'm not advocating we lynch VP, I am advocating we not boost him (at least with Solism) - that is why I am checking if someone else has that.

Fine with this part.

Unvote, Vote: Plum

More confident that she's scum than MoI now.

No. Just, no.

[Magua]

But set-up speculation about the number of casts in a PM is much more likely to be useful.

1) 1 of the 3 points I had against you. The other two, you may note, did not involve setup speculation in any way.

2) Disprovable (and has been disproven). No way to prove or disprove the abilities of dead players.

@Magua - Seriously, Plum is scum here. Listen to Sottyrulez if you don't trust my judgement.

Sotty's given me no reason to trust them. I trust you more than I trust them. I just disagree with you.

[Magua]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

[Magua]

Also finishing this. Would like others to claim.
"Solism" as one of their domains?
- Yes(1): VPB
- No(7): Magna, ooba, Demonic Angel, Magua, sottyrulez, Parama, Plum
- Unclaimed(6): AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, Nobody Special, RayFrost, Seraphim

Given that VPB has claimed his other domain, I'm curious why you care about this?

[Magua]

P-edit: @VP, @Magua: Nobody having Solism is probably a point for SK-Solism theory of mine.

Although it's aesthetically appealing, it's inconclusive with the number of dead players.

I agree with sottyrulez, for what it's worth. Not interested in lynching VPB. Let scum shoot him. Scum can take the risk that he's going to gun for town, but there's no way that hito was in the confirmed-town camp at the end of D2, so I'm comfortable with letting them take that risk.

[Magua]

@Plum:

Who are the tigers?

[Magua]

Not I. Are you sure you don't mean N2, though?

[Magua]

dudes plum's still scum. we're just gonna let her away with it? really?

Opinion on VP Baltar please. And confirm for me you find Plum to be scummier than MoI and RayFrost.

[Magua]

town vig. posibillily of sk but hito shot makes much more sense from vig, but that's pro anyway who cares let's get him to kill scum we can lynch him later if game's not over. oh yeah, plum's ahead of ray. moi as scum is not something I see. how would you rank the 3 of them?

Opposite of you. Magna > Ray > Plum.

Why are my reads backwards of yours? I see lots of mudslinging from everyone involved (Ray's bugs me the most), but I see a *lot* from MoI. MoI, who I can usually rely on to be analytical, seems to not be analytical now. Plum strikes me as towniest, one most interested in actually finding and lynching scum, and I really want to know why you disagree.

[Magua]

I do not trust RayFrost. If you've got a third party win condition, out it. Scum have no reason to stop you from removing yourself from the game. Town has no reason to stop you removing yourself from the game as long as your win condition doesn't hurt town.

The fact that you're so secretive about what it is does not lead me to believe that it will hurt town. It's possible that singersigner was worshipping Justice to power up hitogoroshi. It's also possible she was doing it to power up you. Fuck, it's possible she was powering up ooba. It's also possible that sottyrulez is simply lying. So it goes.

You're right that we need to maximize our gains for the town. This game will not be in our favor if it's mountainous. But we still need to minimize the gains for the scum. VPB is fine to power up because I don't think he's scum, and if he's SK, he's a threat to scum. So that's all fine by me. Let VPB shoot, and if he shoots scummy people, great. If no one scummy dies, I'll be the first on the wagon. This is a fine plan.

Ray's not in the same position. Most importantly, I don't have the Ray-is-definitely-not-a-tiger vibe.

I have the same reservations about ooba, but too many people I trust to be town are telling me I'm wrong.

The Plan

Going with ooba's list here:
Team VPB: VP Baltar, Demonic Angel, sottyrulez, Parama, Seraphim, Faraday
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM, MagnaofIllusion, Nobody Special, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Plum, RayFrost

1) AlmasterGM - Worship Balance/Justice
2) Debonair Danny DiPietro - Worship Balance/Justice
5) Faraday - Worship Solism/Will
8) Demonic Angel - Worship Solism/Will
9) MagnaofIllusion - Worship Balance/Justice
10) Magua - Do whatever the person who gets lynched was supposed to do
13) Nobody Special - Worship Balance/Justice
14) ooba - Worship Balance/Justice
15) Parama - Worship Solism/Will
16) Plum - Worship Balance/Justice
18) RayFrost - Worship Balance/Justice
19) Seraphim - PGO cast on VPB
21) sottyrulez - Worship Solism/Will
23) VP Baltar - Drain battery

If they're alive and you have a relevant read, consider:
RayFrost will benefit from a Justice worship.
MagnaofIllusion will benefit from a Balance worship.

- Acceptable deviation: If you have a protective ability/cast you can use, protect ooba

[Magua]

Magua – What is your stance on VPB and DA mudslining? Hmmmm? Are they scum for doing it? If your answer is No and involves “it’s in their nature not yours” that’s bullshit.

It is in their nature. I really dislike Fate, on a personal level, when he gets into that mode, and I've already made that clear. But that doesn't make it a scumtell for him.

For VPB, unbound arrogance is way more of a scumtell. But no one, and I do believe that includes you, thinks VPB is a Tiger. That's really all I care about at this point. So everything else gets ignored. I literally do not care if VPB is the SK. Even if he were to claim it in the thread, I would not vote him.

Question about your Donation power, Magna. Please elaborate on how it works. Here's how I think it works from what you said in a hypothetical setup with you (Balance + Austerity), ooba (Balance + Justice), and RayFrost (Justice + Syncretism).

N1, no one has any faith.
ooba worships Austerity.
RayFrost worships Austerity.
You use Donation, targeting ooba.

N2, you have 0 faith.
RayFrost has 0 faith.
ooba has 2 faith.

Is that correct?

[Magua]

Magua I need to know if we're worshipping or using an ability tonight.

If you have a protection ability, use it on ooba. I would consider watcher a protective ability, for what it's worth.

If you have some other ability...well, without knowing anything about the effect, approach it with the understanding that if you do use it, you'll very likely get lynched. So the question to ask yourself is, "Is using this effect worth getting lynched over?" If it guarantees finding a scum, the answer might be yes. If it's more like a tracker, then the answer is probably no.

[Magua]

RayFrost, what were your faith totals N1 and N2?

[Magua]

Now that you've claimed all this, will you say what you did with your faith N1?

[Magua]

Apologies. I meant N2.

[Magua]

That’s an absolute cop-out excuse to accuse me of being scummy for the same behavior then.

It is not a cop out to say, "It's odd that Magna isn't being analytical" when your observed behavior is to be analytical. It would similarly not be a cop out for me to say, "It's odd for Fate to be nice and pleasant to everyone."

Then you are pointlessly short-sighted. Because not lynching a claimed dangerous 3rd party over someone who can possibly flip Town is frankly stupid. Not that he has directly claimed SK but in the situation you described it is a terrible move.

I'm really a terrible player. Like I said, I only got in here because Vi mistook my name for yours.

Nope that isn’t correct. I will explain in detail. And an example is the easiest way to do it.

I'm not seeing the difference between your example and mine.

Perhaps if I just tried to reword it?
N1: Donate and pick a target.
N2: All faith that you get that your target would not normally get goes to the target. You lose all remaining faith (ie, what both you and your target would've gotten).

Is that accurate?

I wonder if the battery has more to do with post count as words per post rather than actual time elapsed.

Does it matter? No.

Seraphim, you think VPB is town (as in, not the SK), yes/no?

Who do you think are the tigers?

[Magua]

Does the donation still go through if you are nightkilled the same night you do it?

[Magua]

Poor dramonic.

In the meantime, I think RayFrost is town. Part of it is his answers to some questions (I don't see scum saying they did nothing N0 and nothing N1 and oh yeah I killed a town N2), and part of it has to do with his claim and private information I have. Either way, I don't think he's scum.

UNVOTE: RayFrost

This claim also makes me feel much better about VPB.

[Magua]

Also going to say that I know my kill went through because the flavor of my cast matches the flavor of the game(s) it originates from, and the flavor of the kill matches the aforementioned.

You shouldn't've have said it was 1-shot only. But now that you have, full details? I've been working under the assumption that the kill flavors were tied to the role dying, not to the method of death. I am very interested in this, especially given that both quadz and VPB have claimed kill powers that included no flavor.

@Seraphim

, can you give me full details of your "person who's been voted the most" power?

[Magua]

I'm going to work some numbers and verify some things, but in the meantime, I am very much desiring to use Seraphim's power on Nobody Special tonight, in place of a VPB PGO protect.

[Magua]

P-edit: Magua that requires us to get more total votes on everyone than on him.

Easy enough to do. It's cumulative votes. No, I'm crunching the total number of vig kills we can accumulate over the next two nights and seeing how to maximize it.

NS is obvtown.

No reason to kill him tonight if VPB's powers are real anyways.

Total disagreement. Seraph gives us a kill *tonight*, a flip tomorrow. That by itself makes it better.

Who would you prefer, DA?

[Magua]

Let's try again, DA. You have a vig kill, usable only tonight. Who are you going to vig?

Keep going down that list till you can give me a non-Plum, non-MoI answer.

[Magua]

Let's try again, DA. You have a vig kill, usable only tonight. Who are you going to vig?

Keep going down that list till you can give me a non-Plum, non-MoI answer.

Same question to DDP and sottyrulez.

[Magua]

fate's been really nice this game wtf.

I was just thinking this.

Magua: if your ability is doing what I think it's doing, then why don't we lynch NS? You have effectively a guilty on him, don't you?

I wish. No, I don't have any extra information on NobodySpecial. Wanting NS vigged is because he's 100% unreadable to me.

I'm looking over the player list and I just have too many players who I don't think are scum. It's becoming problematic, because I'm flashing back to ASoS.

MagnaofIllusion/Plum: I originally found MoI to be scummier and Plum to be townier. Over the last few pages, though, MoI has latched onto his "I roleblocked every cast of greater than 2 faith" with a vengeance (here, here), to the point where I'm willing to believe that he did in fact do this, regardless of alignment.

Meanwhile, Plum's sort of disappeared, and upon rechecking, has taken no stance on MoI at all throughout the entire game, which makes me sad. And I've got two of my townreads telling me she's scum. Which is making me waffle and fencesit.

[Magua]

Ok. I'm not advocating changing the current worship plan, but for Nights *after* N3:

- I'm 99% certain that the tigers do not double up on any domains. That is, I think there are 6 tigers, and each one has 2 different domains.
- Thus, I think that worshipping the domains of dead tigers is guaranteed to not provide them with any faith.

So, this is going to put the "Meta" into "Metamafia."

Looking at the three dead tigers we have so far:
- hitogoroshi (hitogoroshi): Little clue. Someone who knows hito better would be of more help here (sottyrulez?). I have my guess, but it's just that, a guess, and I don't feel overly confident in it.
- quadz08 (DrippingGoofball): Claimed Syncretism + Whimsy. Syncretism, I dunno. Doesn't seem to fit DGB's playstyle, which is to just be inscrutably right. That part might be fake. Whimsy, however, certainly describes DGB's playstyle to a T. I think Whimsy is a safe domain to worship from here on out.
- singersigner (Fate): If Fate is not Fervor + Will, I will eat my hat. I think both Fervor + Will are safe domains to worship.

So, N4 and after, if you have nothing to do, I would highly recommend worshipping one of Fervor, Will, Whimsy. Especially if there's some form of roleblock power available, it is a safe way of ensuring that worship faith gets to town without announcing which town is going to get it in thread.

For tonight, for those worshipping VPB, I highly recommend worshipping Will over Solism.
I also recommend Seraphim vigging NobodySpecial if he's not lynched, but, y'know, WIFOM it up. Vig him or PGO VPB. Flip a coin.

I still support an MoI lynch over a Plum lynch. VOTE: MagnaofIllusion
I am suspicious of DDD and Faraday, but they are not good lynches for today.

[Magua]

Girls, girls. You're both pretty.

[Magua]

UNVOTE: MagnaofIllusion
VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro

[Magua]

lol, wtf is wrong with you people. Especially you Magua.

I don't like anything that he's posted all day, and I was hoping that this would change, but as the Day went on his posts just got worse and worse.

The Night Action Plan

Especially You, Nobody Special

Going with ooba's list here:
Team VPB: VP Baltar, Demonic Angel, sottyrulez, Parama, Seraphim, Faraday
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM,

MagnaofIllusion

Magua, Nobody Special, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Plum, RayFrost

1) AlmasterGM - Worship Balance/Justice
2) Debonair Danny DiPietro - Worship Balance/Justice
5) Faraday - Worship Solism/Will
8) Demonic Angel - Worship Solism/Will

9) MagnaofIllusion - Worship Balance/Justice

10) Magua - Worship Balance/Justice
13) Nobody Special - Worship Balance/Justice
14) ooba - Worship Balance/Justice
15) Parama - Worship Solism/Will
16) Plum - Worship Balance/Justice
18) RayFrost - Worship Balance/Justice
19) Seraphim - PGO cast on VPB *or* vig NobodySpecial
21) sottyrulez - Worship Solism/Will
23) VP Baltar - Drain battery

- If you're worshipping Solism or Will, allow me to strongly suggest you worship Will for reasons I go into here
- If you're worshipping Justice or Balance, consider that RayFrost will benefit from a Justice worship. If you have a townread on him, go for Justice. If you have a scumread on him, go for Balance.

- Acceptable deviation: If you have a protective ability/cast you can use, protect ooba

UNVOTE: Debonair Danny DePietro
VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

[Magua]

Faraday had me fooled. I was sold hook, line, and sinker when he recorded Barbie Girl.