American Gods Mafia - Game over

[Saint]

205 posts went by before the mod pmed me
I didn't know this thread was opened

[Saint]

I've skimmed the big wagons in iso, and I completely understand the one on SGR
his "town will be in a bad spot if I die" is pretty bad.....
"I'm pretty sure the Town isn't gonna survive if it keeps having these lapses in logic"
I don't like this either.

Meh, stand-alone, it might be, but I have a Town-Tell on Ythill overall
-cut-

care to explain this? thanks.

I'm going to read the game straight through now

[Saint]

I don't see the ghostlin case.

I think he is playing to his meta.

speaking of meta, I can completely feel the benevolence in your posting
glad to see we're on the same side ^^

[Saint]

support: agar, farside

[Saint]

OhGodMyLife is tunneling, and trying to set up chain lynches, while not actually scumhunting whatsoever
Even though there are some wall posts I need to take the time to read *looks at Ghostlin*, I doubt they will make me change my vote. I would be happy voting SGR, but I like this wagon more:

vote: OGML

[Saint]

Disclaimer:

-cut-

@OGML:

You intrigue me because you've dropped a few towntells
-cut-

care to clarify this? if this is good enough, I might unvote.
The thing is, though, I'm reading LlamaFluff and OGML as a scumteam thusfar.

[Saint]

support: ythill

[Saint]

SGR: Fine, we get that you think Ythill is town now. I still haven't really got a straight answer out of you over whether you thought the WC attack was scummy - and that's not at the present moment, I mean earlier in the game when you spent ages talking about how it made no sense to you.

OhGodMyLife is tunneling, and trying to set up chain lynches, while not actually scumhunting whatsoever
Even though there are some wall posts I need to take the time to read *looks at Ghostlin*,

I doubt they will make me change my vote.

I would be happy voting SGR, but I like this wagon more:

vote: OGML

How can you make this assertion when you haven't read everything? This implies your reads are disingenuous. Your indication of readiness to drop your suspicion if Ythill comes up with something on OGML is also scummy.

AGar: what exactly do you think was wrong with Ani's logic about WC? As far as I can see, that's a pretty accurate description of what he was doing.

I'm caught up, and I'm still happy with my vote. How is that scummy? I'm not scum, direct me to my scumteam please, because if I have one, they left me out of the loop!
lol

@SGR:

Brevity please.

@far:

Okay, dropping the subject but since you can't (or won't) explain it, I'm logging it as a tell.

@Saint:

I don't explain my town tells. Besides, I'd already decided to see what comes of an OGML wagon after we got a VC, so I like your vote right where it is.

UNVOTE: Ghost
VOTE: OGML
Zoooooooooooom.

lol
ok
This is why I supported you, for the record. The reason is, because, even if he "had a towntell", you are ready to lynch him. This makes me believe you were doing this as a reactionary test. You must have been happy with the way I reacted, if it was a bait and switch. Perhaps I am reading too much into this. Do you share your scumreads?
Who else do you see as being a likely scumteam with OGML? I haven't really picked up on too many associative tells.

Guys, first off, tunnel vision isn't even scummy because its never been a bad thing to try to get the person you're sure is scum lynched, and second I haven't been exhibiting tunnel vision simply because I haven't voted for anyone else. Third, again, its not setting up chain lynches when what I've said is conditional. If scum then scum is the only relation I've posited. Its not like if he flips town I'll go durrr ok well I thought AGar was his scumbuddy so he must still be scum

I disagree
I feel you have been both tunneling, and setting up chainlynches. Do you want me to quote you? It's fairly obvious that's what you were doing, and it is scummy.

-cut-
3) AtE: In one post he pretty much calls town doomed if they vote for the reasons they're voting for him. In another post, he throws in the towel (with a mea culpa).
-cut-

I agree with your point 3.
However, I feel like SGR has been providing an adequate defense. He might be town after all!

uh, yeah not going to try and bother convince scum they're scum. More farside votes please.

unvote:
vote: GG

Refusing to make a case is a scum tell. Ignoring everything I said and discounting the only point you made against me (saying I'm suspicious of those suspicious of me) which I know is not true is guaranteed scum making a fake case.

Awesome stuff. Me or you lynched then, because I refuse to be baited by someone who not only voted without a reason, but tried batting a second time with the look at farside BS.
Let me ask you GG: How many baits were you willing to put out there? How many times are you going to bait a player before they are allowed to respond to false scum hunting?

Farside, you and I really appear to be on the same page this game. I was about to make a case on GG for being OGML's scumbuddy, but you just did it for me!

If you'll look on the last page, with OGML supporting GG and unsupporting you, into GG basically chainsaw defending OGML with their vote, I am very suspicious of them both for being a part of a scumteam.

I'm happy with either of these lynches, but Geese seems like they will be more dangerous if left alive.

unvote: OGML

Vote: A Gaggle of Geese

[Saint]

zfghjkl;'
VOTE: A Gaggle of Geese

[Saint]

not really
nor am i sheeping
i can make my own case on you


EBWOP:
Ghostlin, I feel you all have been largely town on town.

[Saint]

@Farside, your hyperlink was broken for me. It didn't go back to what you said it would, instead it just went back to the start of the game.

First up, direct responses...

SGR v Ghost is boring me. I feel like the stances are clear on both sides.

We agree with this, in that it is town-on-town and only gets more apparent every time each of them posts.

You v far was fruitful at first, but has become boring as well. My notes have you at dynamic MotR and I'm starting to think that only the chess head is being scummy. That

could

mean either alignment. However, I'm also noting as of this post the absence of a pretty solid Faraday meta scumtell. Hydras are weird (and by that I mean weird, Seacore).

@GG + far:

If BS (BackStage) was a majority vote, far would already have been sent and GG'd be @ BS-2. Neither of you is going to be today's lynch. Anyone voting either of you should start paying attention and stop wasting their vote. This includes both of you.

This isn't town agar I know.

Explain please. I have some experience with town AGar but no meta read at this point.

@Magna:

Hi. Do you like replacing in as scum?

(1) Perhaps I am reading too much into this. (2) Do you share your scumreads? (3) Who else do you see as being a likely scumteam with OGML?

1. Not "too much," just reading it in the wrong direction. I'm more interested in vote changes than behavioral stuff.
   
2. Yes, and I have in this game. Please do not waste my time with the obvious.
   
3. I don't think OGML is scum per se. And I think associative tells are pointless speculation on D1. If you're asking who I find scummy, the current list is: ani, Ghost, Magna, Wrath, and Apok.

Regardless of how you feel about GG or farside, do we really want them to go backstage together, get into a possible argument that might derail and dominate the backstage talk considering how they're going at it RIGHT NOW?

Thought provoking... after consideration, this may actually be desirable for what I have in mind for Backstage. I

really

need to get a solid read on the Geese.

1) What do you mean the wrong direction? What do you wish to perceive to get out of those votechanges?
2) it is not necessarily obvious. You could reserve scumreads to not be nightkilled. If you have the entire scumteam pegged, I'd imagine they're going to kill you.
3) I would be happy lynching either of the first two. Magna? I'd like to know why. Tasky didn't seem to be under a lot of pressure, though I'll admit I did come to a gut scum read here when I saw him replace in. It just didn't make any sense, is all. Wrath = WrathChild? He always appears scummy. I had to save his ass when he was town in the last game I completed, Cyclical Experiment. I'll ISO him really fast and get back to you.

in the meanwhile..

I just did an ISO of OGML and it's moderately scummy.
There's a lack of scum hunting, there's rhetoric without cases. There's a lot of fluff.

I think OGML is scum. I think OGML could very well be scum with AGar due to two points. 1) AGar is on his list of "if SGR flips scum, these people are scum" there's no info there, so it could just be some light distancing. 2) He votes to start a wagon on AGar, knowing AGar isn't going to be a lynch today, but this way he can say "hey, I try to START a wagon on AGar ages ago, he can't possibly be my buddy.

But that relationship isn't based on whether AGar is scummy, I'll look into that lately.

So at the moment, I'll vote for Ghostlin or OGML, whichever has a larger wagon.

I really don't like this post. I don't expect Seacore to be lynched, and I have found his play suspicious when he is town before, so perhaps my read of him is off yet again. However, I feel like he is trying to take away from OGML. It's akin to a day-1 FoS into a vote of Ghostlin, I would expect. Since he is voting Ghostlin, I really should tack my vote back onto OGML, as I feel it is an associative tell he dropped here.

@Ythill, why the wagon hop? Right when I get suspicious of Seacore for defending OGML, you go and hop onto the largest bandwagon? I'm beginning to read your defense of SGR in #325, if you could even call it that, as reason for you being scum. You know he's town, so he's someone you can defend very easily.

Im actually leaning town on WrathChild after isoing him, although I disagree with him listing Gag and Seacore as town. He is going to join my townreads. I actually have 2 townreads which I would be willing to bet very, very good money on at this point

[Saint]

MoHo 1 or 2?

[Saint]

@Ythill
I don't see how you wagon hopping and bandwagonning has anything to do with my credibility. If I call you out on something that is valid, if anything, it should bolster my credibility. There's nothing solid about what you're doing with this. You are trying to make me look like a crazy person, only because I'm the sole person who has voiced suspicions of you whatsoever. Your awkward defensiveness on this matter is noted.

1) I agree with using votecounts and flips. I use flips on associate tells D1 in the RVS...
I know that's a weird strategy, but hey, I like it.
2) Key word some. That's what I mean... you should reserve some.
3) I don't feel quite the same way with his last post, especially if OGML flips scum like I expect he will

unvote: gag

VOTE: OGML

[Saint]

Ythill, that is scummy regardless of your meta, and needs to be hammered out of you

[Saint]

Nexus and Ythill are receiving scumpoints for deterring this easy lynch

[Saint]

HE'S AT L-3 YOU ALL CAN'T COUNT sheesh

the L-1 thing was a misrepresentation

i would have totally fakehammered him

[Saint]

ugh. I'm here.

From what I've seen, a farside lynch look good, but what LL points about Nexus is defnitley good. The only real defense point is "I forgot what day the deadline is, I didn't do it" type deal. The rest of it is all deflecting points other places.

considering those reads, why is your vote still where it is, considering it's at a place that is L-9?

[Saint]

Somehow I completely missed Locke's unvote, that is where that came from, MoI.
Add Locke to Ythill, and Nexus in the deterring of the lynch. Nexus didn't even unvote with it, so I don't see why that wagon is there, though in terms of him as a player I wouldn't mind the lynch. However, I'm just not seeing him as scum. I am viewing him as newish town, something I definitely am good at spotting.

I am suspicious of Ythill now. His vote has been way too spread out, and he doesn't even see a problem with that. He is also directly attacking my credibility, which is hurtful to the town.

unelect: Ythill
elect: MoI
unvote;

VOTE: Ythill

[Saint]

Ythill is town.

I'm pretty sure.

Saint and MoI come out bad from this.

your defense is noted, however I feel you are just bad as town

Saint's town.

He's just being dumb.

scumslip?

So hey guys, it's mardi gras and I am pleasantly drunk. I would like a drunkwagon on Nexus.

Am I going to need to give you beads?

Nice to see your play has deteriorated to one liners now that someone has a vote on you.

That vote count would be much cooler id someone other than OGML had more than three votes on them. Srsly.

I would be happy seeing you with around 10 votes myself.

I read a higher level of commitment to the wagon from him as it gained steam, which happened after I gave my (Fate's, in all truthfulness) theory on large game wagonning and consolidation, and he said the theory was essentially bunk.

So your theory so far is that your statment is that he has a higher level of commitment on the wagon......

Huh?

Badly worded.
Your theory is that ghost "had a higher level of commitment" on someone because of your comment.
Then read the rest of what I said after that.

You basically just reworded his post here... What's the deal with that? Scummy

unelect: farside

[Saint]

SGR- I don't care for SGR 3 people he wants to vote. All 3 had stated a issue with him. The worst one is LL. Why wasn't OGML on the list? Why do you think OGML is a townie that is not trying hard, rather then scum making a crap case? What reason did you find was valid against OGML? Why do you think there is enough info for the day to end?

1) You don't think Ani and Ghostlin are scum?
2) I have been changed my mind by the way OGML has acted under suspicions, and also the arguments used against him
3) There is enough info for the day to end because we have been moving at a snail's pace since we started a lynch on OGML

1) Ani, yes - Ghostlin I did but rereading I can't say town, but null
2) okay that's vague. What was it that you saw that got you to that conclusion? Which arguments changed your view?
3) You've been on MS how long? Really this is normal speed and some people are behind.

unvote:
vote: Nexus

oooooo into bandwagonning, and I dislike point 3
What is the point in that? It doesn't make sense

Unvote

Vote: Nexus

Well, since clearly us v. Farside is not getting resolved today, and we still have a townread on OGML, we'll join this wagon.

WOW even more bandwagonning
Let's all sheep drunken Ythill, who is likely scum.
I expected more of you all.

We'd also wagon MOI in a fucking instant. Like just say the word and we'll be there quicker than batman.

I bet you all would be willing to lynch about 75% of the playslots

I got it on the "Users browsing this forum". I saw you a lot of times there

I liked your post about agar, werewolf, etc
I also like this post
+towncred in my eyes

I don't get the obv town feeling I get from Magna. That's bad.

I'm not getting it either.
Yet I get it from you... however, your reads are usually bad.
What are your feelings in terms of likelihood of these players being scum together:
MoI+Farside, or Ythill+Farside?
I have a feeling you are going to go with MoI, if so, can you expain why they would be more likely to be scum with farside than Ythill? I have a feeling one of these 3 are scum at least, and I am feeling it is more likely to come from the latter. I feel like MoI's play being a little off is due to replacing in, not being scum.

[Saint]

elect: Saint

[Saint]

a couple of scummy people electing seacore...

unelect: myself
unelect: agar
elect: LlamaFluff
elect: Locke Lamora

What are peoples opinions on electing LL? I would be happy with him being elected. He doesn't have enough support!

@apokalyptica

I said, and I quote "I feel like MoI's play has been scummy due to replacing in"
How is that me having him as a suspect?
The 1 out of the 3 I am pretty sure of was obvious if you knew how to read

Yeah, I was just thinking that. There was really no reason for Saint to get towncred on me based on the fact I commented that LynchMePlz was viweing the thread form time to time.

I've done this as town, in Mafia in Mendo. It might not have anything to do with your alignment, but I see no point in analyzing who is browsing the thread as scum. Surely that can be faked, but I liked your tone in response to that. LMP was really shocked at you saying that, and with good reason. I'd have been shocked too!

I don't know. I think that someone acting like that much of an idiot can't be scum, because scum would be more careful. So, I think he's town. Probably naive of me.

I hadn't noticed his defending of OGML
OGML doesn't seem like he is going to be lynched, and I have no idea what I was smoking when I vainly believed I could get Ythill lynched. If anything, he's probably right. All it did was hurt my credibility. I have seen much better players than I say you need to bandwagon d1 in LThemes
Well, this kid is dropping scumtells to me
this helps ogml if nexus is scum, so I want to see him flip

Vote: Nexus

Saint: do you think I'm scum too?

You are my strongest town read. Why?

[Saint]

Farside, my comment about your AGar comment was that you were reiterating
I like your response to my second comment

[Saint]

Nice Ad hominem from Nexus. I'd expect as much from a person with weak play. Also, nice misrepresentation - I didn't like you talking about the hammer, more than not hammering. To clarify, I didn't like the UNVOTES, and you LIKING THE UNVOTES, and TALKING ABOUT IT... Not hammering/wanting to extend the day is scummy; scum are indecisive when they are inexperienced like you are.
Many good players view longer days negatively. Town are brash, and eager to hammer.
That being said, don't blame me for the wagon on you. Lashing out at your most recent voter doesn't help you. I was more suspicious of Ythill for the unvote than you for not hammering, if you go back and LTR.

My voting of you is for the post you made, which I will quote again.

I don't know. I think that someone acting like that much of an idiot can't be scum, because scum would be more careful. So, I think he's town. Probably naive of me.

Your simple hammer would not have been anything to me. Your lack of hammer would not be anything to me, EXCEPT HERE YOU ADMIT "SCUM WANT TO BE CAREFUL"

YOU WERE CAREFUL
YOU ARE SCUM.

[Saint]

Saint: if you don't think MoI is scum, then why would you bring him into the conversation you were having with vezok? Why wouldn't you say "What do you think of Ythill and Farside being scum together?" Also, not hammering is not scummy, since almost nobody was ready to be done with the day. And look, since the day continued, I'm getting lots of information that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Because I suspect Animorpher is scum.

[Saint]

Please explain this because I don’t even know what you are saying here.
I am playing scummy because I replaced in? Are you differentiating my play here from games I start?
Am I scummy because I replaced Tasky who you thought was scummy?

I feel like you are out of the loop, and that some people have reads on your slot which you are having trouble shaking. I read one Tasky post scummily, I could go find it, but it is probably a waste of time because we're not lynching you today. You have helped your slot to me, but not other people, hence why I'm defending you and getting flack for it.

Why do you think that? OGML is still the leading wagon and I believe the only reason he’s gotten any slack is his announced V/LA til today.

I would be happy lynching him, but his wagon really is stalling. You even admit that in this post.

Appeal to Authority much?

Who am I appealing to? I generally feel AtA has to be TO someone.

[Saint]

@ythill: I was in one game with you and I don't recall you vote hopping as much as this game.

geezer mafia
You had 3 people you were will to vote on day 1. Very different from here. This game you seem a bit more hey lets BW X and see where it goes. I also see from geezer there is no VC analysis coming from you there.

unelect: ythill

WATCH OUT FARSIDE YOU'LL ONLY HURT YOUR OWN CREDIBILITY

Saint: do you think I'm scum too?

You are my strongest town read. Why?

You said that Ythill and Nexus were scummy for deterring the OGML lynch, but although you were later told that I also unvoted OGML, you haven't treated me in the same way. Seems inconsistent.

You generally play this way as town. I have played with you more than both of them.

This head has only seen Ythill in jurrasic park which is still ongoing, but Ythill is dead and flipped town, and he did vote hop a lot on D1. I have a mild townread on him...from what I gather, the way to read him is in how successful his VCA and other shenanigans are.

ongoing... ?
but your defense is noted

GG, you also list Seacore as town, what brought you to that conclusion?
You said "A lot of people view Ythill as town", but I myself am iffy on that.

[Saint]

GG, you also list Seacore as town, what brought you to that conclusion?
You said "A lot of people view Ythill as town", but I myself am iffy on that.

Town thought process. Other stuff too. Not really important.

Also, why did you just quote our post, only to ridiculously paraphrase it into something we didn't say?

It popped into my head and struck me the wrong way
I was wanting to see if you actually had any good reason to say that, which obviously you don't, furthering my feeling you guys are scum

[Saint]

I'd like to see a few people unelect seacore and elect llamafluff, because I dislike Gag wanting Seacore elected.

Also, i noticed in OGML's wall that he might know nexus is a mislynch. It's kinda iffy.
What do you guys think? Here's what he said:

Nexus is kinda scummy, but the timing of his wagon and the composition of his wagon make me think he's a convenient town counterwagon

I'm not ready to unvote, as I would want to put my vote on OGML, and he actually contributed. At the least, he gave people something to comment on that better players than I will be able to pick apart. I'm kind of questioning my vote now...

[Saint]

Now if only I could learn from Zorblag...
then I would be a good troll.

[Saint]

I'm gonna go ahead and shift Saint into the scummy category after that one

i'm going to be an idiot and tunnel on every single person who finds me scum...
/hypocrisy

So first you were asking permission for the hammer and now you are blaming us that you didn't?

This is actually a good comment aimed at Nexus.

What was the purpose of this post?

I was reading and commenting on posts, there was no point beyond that I thought Ythill brought up a good point regarding Nexus' to-hammer or not-hammer comments. I'm still am not sold on the Nexus wagon and would prefer the OGML or Ani one.

What about ghostlin? Prefer to ignore your scumbuddies altogether?

how many people are scum, this game, OGML?
first agar,
now me,
now wc?
also, you may have had a spat with farside at one point
You vote SGR first post
call him scum
then elect him
then list him as a "torn on" read and unelect him
what fucking gives, bro?
Seacore, at least I don't put personal grudges in front of my reads. MoI for instance, I personally despise, but he is a town read even if he is sorry to have replaced in for Tasky.

Ythill, I am going to begrudgingly let you buddy me for now.

[Saint]

*cuddles*:D

[Saint]

Well, we can't just blindly wagon him.

Unvote: Nexus
Vote: OGML

I'm not unvoting any more, this is who I want lynched.
I don't know why I didn't vote at the end of #537, novice mistake.

WC, thanks for the support, but you can praise me if OGML/Nexus flips scum
I am completely willing to lynch either of them, or Animorpher (was willing because he is policy), although since he replaced out, I'd like to see who we get.

EBWOP: AGar not putting effort is his town meta, believe it or not

[Saint]

The only time I will be unvoting will be in weeks, if I have to, or if it gets near a hammer.


EBWOP: I was just referencing someone not even in the game, MoI.

[Saint]

Hey K.K.

[Saint]

I dislike apok following me.
He claimed he was suspicious of me, but he follows my vote?

I would still really like to lynch ghostlin. I could live with lynching wrath. Currently for some reason it seems really difficult to get traction on either of these wagons because people keep making excuses and coming back to either me or nexus. I'll have more after my shift today.

Ghostlin isn't even in the game. You mean his slot? You want to lynch before hearing from the replacement? I like my vote a lot right now.

[Saint]

This is ridiculous. I understand that people are busy. I know that there are exams coming up for some of you. But it will only take you a minute to vote for Wrath.

@AGar:

Meh. I suppose I put less weight on "with intent" than you do, because lots of people believe that pressure is more effective when it seems like you want to lynch.

@00iCon:

Hi. Nice fedora. How do you feel about players that replace out under pressure? What are your reads on Wrath and KK?

@The OGML Wagon:

If you are going to insist on parking there, I'd like you to state your opinion of Wrath's #449. Specifically, do you agree that it looks like Wrath is chaining lynches? If not, why not? If so, how are you justifying a lynch on OGML when the point clearly suggests that he is town? Also, what do you think of Wrath's defenses to the accusation?

I read 449 as him needing to learn how to spell lose, also muddying the waters of a good lynch
If OGML

is

town, which I doubt, why does it even matter? He's not going to do anything.
/policy

Most of his posts completely dodge scumhunting, and the one post that I've seen out of him that

doesn't

COMPLETELY FLIP FLOPS on his SGR read... who he started the wagon on... in the RVS. He moves his read on him back and forth, it was an obvious bus, they are both scum. I've been scum on d1 getting bussed (see: Mini 1000). That is how I read that.

I'm still here. I just have nothing to say with everybody going v/la or jumping ship.
I don't think WC is scum, but I'll lynch him at deadline as a VI and not feel too bad about it.

What would benefit Seacore-town from saying this?
...

I would still really like to lynch ghostlin. I could live with lynching wrath. Currently for some reason it seems really difficult to get traction on either of these wagons because people keep making excuses and coming back to either me or nexus. I'll have more after my shift today.

Ghostlin isn't even in the game. You mean his slot? You want to lynch before hearing from the replacement? I like my vote a lot right now.

Are you kidding me right now? First off, of course I mean his slot. It feels like you're being intentionally thick headed with that question. Second, where did I ever say I want a lynch before his replacement has a chance to say something? You're putting words in my mouth. I've never been the person pushing to end this day early. Thats been coming from the people on my wagon, actually.

I was being intentionally thick, that is the one thing you are right about.
You didn't want to lynch his replacement before he had a chance to say something?
How come 2 posts before this it starts with the line "I want to lynch Ghostlin", and your fucking vote is on him, bro?
Nice little mudsling at the end, too, champ.

Hey Ythill,

I'm not getting a scummy vibe from WC's post. It's only natural to be somewhat suspicious of someone rushing to hammer, even if you find the lynch target scummy. Also, I skimmed the Cyclic Experimentation game, in which WC was town, and his posting seems consistent with what I've seen here.

I agree with that, but have you seen him as scum? I haven't, and I was in that game, so even I have had to treat that mainly being null. I may have mentioned it, but I am trying to avoid a read on him because I feel like I will be influenced (possibly unjustly)

@KK I am hydraing with 1 person on another account, and starting one with a second, both in RC games. Why?
Also, link to where my play "has been horrible"
-thanks

I will explain OGML's reads to you:
Ghostlin (no fucking idea) - this is his one lynch that he has latched onto I can't explain, which is why I questioned it recently
SGR (you say, what? but if you really want to know, you haven't read the game properly) - bussing
AGar/Farside/Saint - He began to be suspicious of all of us ONLY AFTER WE VOTED HIM/MADE CASES ON HIM.

@Locke, after that post, I actually gave him a chance to contribute. If you'll notice in my next couple of posts I make a great case as to why he is scum, eventually voting him in #559. His play has not been good for the town, and I'm fairly sure he is scum, because of his willingness to wagon so many people and his backtracking.

[Saint]

why did you type all twice there?
as if youre not even addressing me, you're addressing everyone else, because you are scum appealing to the town

[Saint]

wut?

The first two paragraphs were about me, and you were making it like you weren't even addressing me, which seems like scum appealing to the town

We need a flip, I'm with that.

@Ythill

In 625, what was the point of bringing up those Seacore quotes and asking his intentions if you just thought it was skimming in the first place?

I agree with this question and it feels like a deflection before it even began
couple that with me finding Seacore scummy, and voila, I am more suspicious of Ythill than I was.
I seem to be teeter-tottering on my read

[Saint]

I was the only fucking one to vote Ythill
/brag

[Saint]

@Farside, your hyperlink was broken for me. It didn't go back to what you said it would, instead it just went back to the start of the game.

First up, direct responses...

SGR v Ghost is boring me. I feel like the stances are clear on both sides.

We agree with this, in that it is town-on-town and only gets more apparent every time each of them posts.

You v far was fruitful at first, but has become boring as well. My notes have you at dynamic MotR and I'm starting to think that only the chess head is being scummy. That

could

mean either alignment. However, I'm also noting as of this post the absence of a pretty solid Faraday meta scumtell. Hydras are weird (and by that I mean weird, Seacore).

@GG + far:

If BS (BackStage) was a majority vote, far would already have been sent and GG'd be @ BS-2. Neither of you is going to be today's lynch. Anyone voting either of you should start paying attention and stop wasting their vote. This includes both of you.

This isn't town agar I know.

Explain please. I have some experience with town AGar but no meta read at this point.

@Magna:

Hi. Do you like replacing in as scum?

(1) Perhaps I am reading too much into this. (2) Do you share your scumreads? (3) Who else do you see as being a likely scumteam with OGML?

1. Not "too much," just reading it in the wrong direction. I'm more interested in vote changes than behavioral stuff.
   
2. Yes, and I have in this game. Please do not waste my time with the obvious.
   
3. I don't think OGML is scum per se. And I think associative tells are pointless speculation on D1. If you're asking who I find scummy, the current list is: ani, Ghost, Magna, Wrath, and Apok.

Regardless of how you feel about GG or farside, do we really want them to go backstage together, get into a possible argument that might derail and dominate the backstage talk considering how they're going at it RIGHT NOW?

Thought provoking... after consideration, this may actually be desirable for what I have in mind for Backstage. I

really

need to get a solid read on the Geese.

1) What do you mean the wrong direction? What do you wish to perceive to get out of those votechanges?
2) it is not necessarily obvious. You could reserve scumreads to not be nightkilled. If you have the entire scumteam pegged, I'd imagine they're going to kill you.
3) I would be happy lynching either of the first two. Magna? I'd like to know why. Tasky didn't seem to be under a lot of pressure, though I'll admit I did come to a gut scum read here when I saw him replace in. It just didn't make any sense, is all. Wrath = WrathChild? He always appears scummy. I had to save his ass when he was town in the last game I completed, Cyclical Experiment. I'll ISO him really fast and get back to you.

in the meanwhile..

I just did an ISO of OGML and it's moderately scummy.
There's a lack of scum hunting, there's rhetoric without cases. There's a lot of fluff.

I think OGML is scum. I think OGML could very well be scum with AGar due to two points. 1) AGar is on his list of "if SGR flips scum, these people are scum" there's no info there, so it could just be some light distancing. 2) He votes to start a wagon on AGar, knowing AGar isn't going to be a lynch today, but this way he can say "hey, I try to START a wagon on AGar ages ago, he can't possibly be my buddy.

But that relationship isn't based on whether AGar is scummy, I'll look into that lately.

So at the moment, I'll vote for Ghostlin or OGML, whichever has a larger wagon.

I really don't like this post. I don't expect Seacore to be lynched, and I have found his play suspicious when he is town before, so perhaps my read of him is off yet again. However, I feel like he is trying to take away from OGML. It's akin to a day-1 FoS into a vote of Ghostlin, I would expect. Since he is voting Ghostlin, I really should tack my vote back onto OGML, as I feel it is an associative tell he dropped here.

@Ythill, why the wagon hop? Right when I get suspicious of Seacore for defending OGML, you go and hop onto the largest bandwagon? I'm beginning to read your defense of SGR in #325, if you could even call it that, as reason for you being scum. You know he's town, so he's someone you can defend very easily.

Im actually leaning town on WrathChild after isoing him, although I disagree with him listing Gag and Seacore as town. He is going to join my townreads. I actually have 2 townreads which I would be willing to bet very, very good money on at this point

Questioning of Ythill bandwagonning

@Ythill
I don't see how you wagon hopping and bandwagonning has anything to do with my credibility. If I call you out on something that is valid, if anything, it should bolster my credibility. There's nothing solid about what you're doing with this. You are trying to make me look like a crazy person, only because I'm the sole person who has voiced suspicions of you whatsoever. Your awkward defensiveness on this matter is noted.

1) I agree with using votecounts and flips. I use flips on associate tells D1 in the RVS...
I know that's a weird strategy, but hey, I like it.
2) Key word some. That's what I mean... you should reserve some.
3) I don't feel quite the same way with his last post, especially if OGML flips scum like I expect he will

unvote: gag

VOTE: OGML

Addressing where he attacked my credibility over his blatant bandwagon

Somehow I completely missed Locke's unvote, that is where that came from, MoI.
Add Locke to Ythill, and Nexus in the deterring of the lynch. Nexus didn't even unvote with it, so I don't see why that wagon is there, though in terms of him as a player I wouldn't mind the lynch. However, I'm just not seeing him as scum. I am viewing him as newish town, something I definitely am good at spotting.

I am suspicious of Ythill now. His vote has been way too spread out, and he doesn't even see a problem with that. He is also directly attacking my credibility, which is hurtful to the town.

unelect: Ythill
elect: MoI
unvote;

VOTE: Ythill

Into voting Ythill

Yet I'm scum with him, SGR?

vote: SGR

[Saint]

actually

unvote
vote: LlamaFluff

[Saint]

lmao im on 31 and seeing fate sobering up and his read changing on me when he realized who i was is hilarious

[Saint]

elect: Fate, Farside, GG
sacrifice MOI, ressurect Vezokpiraka
vote: AGar

why you care so much bro?
why are you dissing our dead tracker?
you don't care this much as town, from my experience

[Saint]

Seacore, did you just softclaim?

unvote;
vote: Apok

[Saint]

elect:
seacore
locke lamora
saint

[Saint]

I'm fine sacrificing or lynching MoI
When we decide which one, I will vote. I don't want us to miss out of sacrificing and getting back a watcher that we can use, the problem is with the setup I am seeing there is VERY LIKELY TO BE A ROLEBLOCKER.

[Saint]

On to another subject. Saint claimed to have been roleblocked, last night there was one less kill, coincidence?

Sacrifice Saint

wtf

learn how to read
I said "looking at the setup there is

likely

a roleblocker"

[Saint]

WC I am not even going to claim if I CAN be roleblocked, let alone answer that fully.
You are reading like scum fishing to see if I have a Power Role, honestly.

[Saint]

sacrifice: AGar

I am like the most clear person in this game considering my interactions with Ythill, what the fuck are you all smoking?

[Saint]

unelect: Saint
elect: KK

[Saint]

vote: MoI

L-1

[Saint]

I urge someone to simply vote on MoI so you all don't lynch yet another power role
fucking idiots

[Saint]

sacrifice*

[Saint]

I will claim if I have to, as in if there is clear intent to sacrifice me or lynch me, but I'd rather not out my role... my role is unlike any I've ever had, tbh.

[Saint]

I'm pretty sure the mafia are the ones trying to sacrifice me. They probably rolecopped me.

[Saint]

unvote: MoI; sacrifice: MoI
unsacrifice AGar; vote: AGar

[Saint]

• The entire town must first make a majority vote on who to resurrect, then a majority vote on who to sacrifice before they hammer their regular lynch choice.

Just putting it out there that before the sacrifice goes through we are safe from anyone ending the day before it happens. Someone was concerned about that, I forget who. We have already majority revived Apok, and now must majority sacrifice someone and can not hammer MoI until that happens. So until the sacrifice vote hits seven we should finish discussing important matters and electing (which I'm working on myself). With MoI at L-1 the day could end anytime once the sacrifice happens. I still support an MoI lynch, but fear that scum will want to hammer quick to end the day, especially if Saint flips scum.

That's actually why I voted
hoping scum would hammer MoI really quick, before I could be mis-sacrificed

the fact that has not happened proves to me MoI is scum, as I know I am not
Anyone who believes I am scum needs to go back to the fact I was the only fucking person pressuring Ythill at all.

[Saint]

WC are you a terrible read? I have no idea if I was roleblocked or rolecopped, but I know for a fact a roleblocker exists.

[Saint]

reader

[Saint]

the mod is not going to not include a roleblocker in a setup with a watcher/tracker, considering what I know, end of story

[Saint]

unvote: MoI; sacrifice: MoI
unsacrifice AGar; vote: AGar

Did you miss the part of Llama claiming town results on Agar?

Did you miss the part where LF was suspected due to his interactions with Ythill backstage?
I didn't.
I also believe they are probably a team. AGar also could be a Godfather, even with an inno on him. I am perfectly happy testing it.

He doesn't post this well or care this much when he is town. He is most definitely scum due to meta. I've seen his play for like 2 years on and off site, I know him very well.

[Saint]

I was not roleblocked to my knowledge
my role enables me to pick between 3 options at night, one which has a 50% chance to obstruct roleblocking
that is all that I am going to share for now

[Saint]

@GG: I know for a fact that there is a % based system in my role PM. I get to pick between 3 things, all of which are % based (50%), and one of which is fairly obsolete. I haven't been using the one I've mentioned thus far. I have been using the third option which I would rather not disclose.

@LF: Delayed rolefishing is still rolefishing. I wouldn't give into it at all if I wasn't under pressure from what I'm considering to be the scumgroup. I was the only one who would stand up to Ythill, but I am suspicious as fucking hell of You/AGar/GG and the backstage troupe excluding Farside.

[Saint]

unsacrifice: MoI
unelect: KK
sacrifice: KK
elect: Farside
Vote: MoI

[Saint]

wow what the fuck why are people still sacrificing me?
I am poker alice, and 50% has to do with being able to protect someone from being NKed at night
how is that not viable
thats the one i didnt want to fucking claim, it is like being a bodyguard, and that is the one I have been using

[Saint]

I did visit Fate, which is why I've been saying I was fucking roleblocked and making shit up about that, since I didn't die and fate died

[Saint]

I thought people could undo it, to be honest, it was a mistake
I can't dismiss any roleblocking, I just made that up.

[Saint]

Since I'm about to die, I guess say goodbye to your bodyguard, town
GG

[Saint]

I thought I was dead...
thanks for making me claim Bodyguard WC
Also, you seem to have known about me being roleblocked

unvote;
vote: WrathChild

[Saint]

Well I don't know what else to do in this situation. I am really behind on this game.

Scum have tried to kill me already, so that's how MoI knows I'm an SK.

[Saint]

I will gladly work with the town.

[Saint]

No, I have deduced it from general gamefeel on how people (AGar/MoI) have tunneled and turned on me instantly after there was only 1 kill.

I am only bulletproof in certain instances
I really can disrupt roleblocking
but MoI might not be lying because I chose to go with myself being unroleblockable (50% like I said) last night, and uninvestigatable by dt, so here is information there is for sure a cop/rolecop (50% again on being un-dt-checked). I chose not to be untrackable/watchable for the first time, considering the flips (50% yet again).

I choose 2 of A,B,C a night
If you all still want to sacrifice me because I lied before, consider that I am just trying to play to my win condition. I feel backed against a wall, though.

I was the person who killed Ythill. I wish I had claimed it as a Vig hit, now. I doubted that being the proper play, as I made it to LYLO in another game offsite through NOT claiming, but you all are really good at putting a man's back against a wall.

[Saint]

K back to thinking MOI is almost certaonly scum. Explains the convolute role claim (i.e. I think he's more likely scum gambitting, as a failed kill on saint is a good chance of not being doc protected).

I'd say the sset-up is 4/1/town btw, with the SK out there. I'd think saint should die today, I guess we could keep around, as a controlled vig but that never seems to end up being very good for the town IME.

Who else has killed scum this game?
I don't care to die, but I feel you all aren't utilizing what you are being presented if so.
If I die, I will learn to not try to stick around.

You know, I could be claiming SK to save myself as scum

[Saint]

id be happier with WC or Seacore than MoI

MoI, who is more of a thread to a non bulletproof SK?
Right now, being sacrificed, which is why I was forced to claim when my fakeclaim failed
but if I'm forced to vig who the town tells me to vig, I will get lynched if I don't follow the plan
What is not to understand?

[Saint]

Well, you all can lose the only person in the game to have pegged scum.
I just regret that I am an SK and not town, because I have a good inclination of multiple scum.

[Saint]

this has all been a gambit, I'm really just a vigilante
sup WC scum

p.s. sorry I killed you Fate, I'll probably be joining you soon

[Saint]

Yeah MoI, I am just goofing off now. That claim was so not serious I almost started it with "would you all believe me if I said ___"

That being said, I don't want to give up that easily or go quietly, I want to kill some scum.

[Saint]

vote: Kublai Khan

[Saint]

unvote;
vote: OGML

[Saint]

unelect x3
unvote

[Saint]

I am the Queen of Old Gods
if I die day goes to darkness the next day

[Saint]

my name is Henry Winkler
heyyyy

[Saint]

sacrifice: Seacore
Vote: Seacore
Elect: LlamaFluff[/b]

Is there anyone who happens to be a role that could turn me town? I'd love that

[Saint]

ack

sacrifice: Seacore
vote: Seacore
elect: LF