Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Furcolow]

If the fonz is town this game I will probably kill myself

[Furcolow]

What does everyone view as possible numbers left? scumteams of 4 and 3? 3 and 2? SK? I doubt there's an SK, and I'm leaning towards 4 and 3. Also, does anyone have any possible teamings of other players? I have provided reasoning for Feysal, but given Amrun's flip, I am beginning to question that. I guess I am just counter-tunneling due to Mafia Holographica.

[Furcolow]

I would rather lynch Gonnano than Bvoigt, Fonz.
Reasoning is sort of weak, as it relies on how many wagons have been attempted on Gonnano yet stalled/failed/fizzled

[Furcolow]

smarg needs to be killed by a vig if she is not lynched so we can see if shes lying about the neighbor thing

also needs to out her neighbor, and if she flips town, perhaps we should doctor her neighbor assuming we have one

[Furcolow]

Look at my scumgames, and look at this, I'm directly responding to any and all accusations whereas when I'm scum I deflect.
/meta

[Furcolow]

the only time i have ever claimed doctor as scum i really was a doctor
why would i retract my claim as scum
that makes no sense

i just dont see the motivation for my play as scum
if you all feel i'm a lylobility, go for it, but now is the time for OMGUSING for me because the only people pushing me will be on one of the scum teams trying to confuse town into thinking a mislynch is applicable with 4v3 on the scumteams

you know, it isn't
you're stuck with me, town
don't be dumb and play into this bullshit

unvote;
vote:

jmj

the fonz

Anyone remember the d1 jmj wagon where the guy lurked and then replaced?
Wonder why someone is pushing me, acting like my meta isn't horrible as town?
Scum.

[Furcolow]

Steph's most recent post smacks of lazy scum - if he's already built a "case" on someone, why does he need to build it again?

Scott, why should we be voting the liars who, as meta tells us, will lie regardless of alignment instead of the scum? Do you think Furc/DP's lies make them necessarily scummy?

If we're voting someone over lies, I'd rather it be Furc than DP - DP's role information claim doesn't seem as scummy as Furc's multiple fakeclaims to me.

However, I'd much rather look for/lynch scum

.

admission of guilt in bold
they are letting you know DP/I won't be flipping scum
However, Smargaret is dumb, because we could be on the other team

I can't make any bold statements like that, because I only know my own alignment is a fucking soviet bulletproof

[Furcolow]

-------------------------
Minor points:
- Would love to hear more from PoisonIvy.
- Loving the pressure on Furcolow, but I'm getting a town read on him. (Primarily based on my own panic fits I've thrown, when I was a townie getting wagoned.)

[Furcolow]

OH HO HO IM TOWN FOLKS

[Furcolow]

ah, shit 2 scum teams
fuck
sorry for the quad post

[Furcolow]

actually he said im town, feysal

-------------------------
Minor points:
- Would love to hear more from PoisonIvy.
- Loving the pressure on Furcolow, but I'm getting a town read on him. (Primarily based on my own panic fits I've thrown, when I was a townie getting wagoned.)

I also agree that, though I'm a regular PL, I can't be at this point. Town needs me.

[Furcolow]

It's about time I got something done in this game. I've been combing through Artem's ISO and certain other parts of the game trying to get reads, and I've had some limited success. For starters, Furcolow.

Amazingly, I've reached the conclusion that Furcolow is probably town after all. Despite all his lies and scummy play. The main reason is that Furcolow claimed Heydar Aliyev, and though he has repeatedly changed his role claim, his name claim has remained constant.

Why would you need to change your nameclaim, though? I mean, each change just increases the chances of counterclaiming. He only changed the bits of his claim

on which he was called out as a liar.

I don't see anything that couldn't have been a bus at either end between those two. As for the rest of your list, I wouldn't be so sure. I mean, the notion that scum don't bus unless they have to doesn't really hold, I don't think.

I'm here, you can talk to me, you don't have to scummily try to convince other people

Ad

, top 3 scum reads plz, excluding gonnano and bvoigt

There are 7 left, so don't cop out on me (i believe)

[Furcolow]

vote: gonnano

i'm town xscorp, you've been tunneling for 3 weeks.

[Furcolow]

I also want to add in I want to go down ThAdmiral's list

[Furcolow]

this wagon has had the amount of opposition I would expect from the 3 man team if Fonz is Gonnano's ally and is distancing
I'm going to keep my vote here, and hope that the 3 man team gets knocked down to 2 here and the Fonz is outted associatively through not wanting to place his vote on Gonnano even if he doesn't really believe the claim in his #1792

If I move my vote to Smarg, or try to start a wagon on EGL who I feel are part of the other team, I might move my vote back to Gonnano though depending on how he answers questioning over his N2 watch, because it is better to focus on one scum at a time instead of trying to vainly handpick teams for us as a town.

I did pick up my game near the end of that period, before VPB died, as I was reinvigorated by the people replacing in. If Gonnano reiterates this point in his own words I will probably back off of him. Let's see if he's scum skimming.

It's of note that Fonz is taking over the town and pushing them against me/protecting Gonnano, though so I could argue both sides of the coin.

I would also be happy with a wagon on him, as he has been scumandeering

I'm not SURE of them, so I'd be willing to lynch from what I feel is the other team. What I mean to say is I'll settle for scum-EGL who is associatively scum with smarg who I'm going to vote if a wagon advances.

[Furcolow]

wow, two wagons i LOVE
glad this game is back open

fonz REPLACED JMJ. Remember that wagon on d1? I can't believe it died!

Why has noone talked about there only being one night kill?

[Furcolow]

It's looking like 8 vs 4 vs 2
unless Vietnamese Soviet mafia, and Soviet mafia are different, which I

HIGHLY

doubt.
I'm guessing the other mafia are capitalist ? Not all soviet area characters are mafia, so I believe we have yet to see the other mafia's name. It is probably American.

THOUGH I'm sure Fonz is allied with the deceased gonnano and is scum, if I am right about that, he is on the 2 person team and we need to get someone on the 4 person team so that the 2 person team will still be able to submit kills... if they can still submit kills. Perhaps they just have a Godfather/Thief combination or something similar revolving flavor that doesn't enable them to kill. I doubt they submitted a no kill, and noone has come out with a doc protect or having lost a night live.

I would love to claim that I had a ploy setup to where I lost a night life last night and was trying to trap someone who misclaimed and counterclaim them, but I don't, sadly.

[Furcolow]

you'd have to look at unvoting with your jmj wagon point. when did those guys unvote? did they deter the wagon with their unvoting?

what's stopping scum from voting back to back on a hammer? I disagree with that clearing them as being buddies. Also, with 2 scum teams, isn't EGL not being on the same team as gonnano a reason TO vote him? We need to eliminate from the team of 4, not from gonnano's team.

[Furcolow]

in feysal's 1037 did anyone dislike the:
1) admission of agreeing with flipped scum
2) use of the term "the rival scum team"

i had to come post before finishing reading

vote: Feysal

[Furcolow]

OMG HE ANALYZED THE OTHER TEAM'S VOTING ANALYSIS LOL
HE IS SCUM, SMARGARET IS HIS BUDDY.

[Furcolow]

Watch for PeregrineV unvoting Fonz soon if his wagon picks up
That would be involving in the Feysal slip, as Feysal has analyzed PeregrineV as being on the other scumteam
It makes me believe I may have been wrong, which is how Fonz easily says what I said was untrue.
I guess I was wrong as to what team he was on.

I am certain on Feysal, definitely leaning scum on the Fonz/JMJ slot
I will vote it if there aren't many other alternatives

If we can't decide, we could always just lynch PeregrineV and bring that scumteam to 1 person
I would rather not, but if we do that, we NEED to get the last scum to prevent the number of kills

[Furcolow]

I'm assuming

[Furcolow]

The only good thing about checking in so infrequently is that anything I do read is always with fresh eyes, with little influence from past reads. Someone I may have to change my mind on is DavidParker, now PeregrineV. My read of him kept changing on day one, but I've thought him town ever since his reaction to Amrun's claim. Artem believed it was townish, and I agreed... and now I find myself second guessing that. With two scum teams, the reaction may have been genuine, but come from scum that was uncertain whether Amrun belonged to the rival scum team. Then there is that wagon where Artem and DavidParker were among the first to vote gonnano. Two scum leading a lynch on their partner? Not very credible at first glance, but then, I've done it too, late in the day when other wagons were well established and looked likely to result in town lynches. Now I wonder if that was what DavidParker was trying to do, distance from his partner while at the same time avoid being caught on a mislynch, but then the gonnano wagon unexpectedly began to develop, at which point he jumped off, trying to weaken the wagon, and gave a horrible reason for it.

1) Why would you scumhunt the weak team unless you were scum
2) Feysal is generally good at scumhunting/reading who is scum, so I'm going with him on that
3) Therefore, he has pegged 1 of the 2 scum on that team, but would only have a reason to do that as the other team, which we as a town need to reduce in number.

[Furcolow]

Watch for PeregrineV unvoting Fonz soon if his wagon picks up

So now you're basing your suspicion on something that might hypothetically happen, but actually hasn't? Furc, considering your original case on me was mostly based on 'ties' to Gonnano, to drop that and still be making out I'm scum seems dishonest to me. Massive confirmation bias at best.

No, to be honest, I feel you are scum, but I am admitting I am wrong.
One thing I am CERTAIN of is that Feysal was coaching his scumteam in his absence to wagon DP, which they obviously can't now because I have pointed it out. Hence my vote being on Feysal and not you.

I am PRETTY sure you are scum, but you might just be tunneling. You are a veteran player, so you know how little defense really matters.

I'm still thinking Fonz is town, and probably Feysal as well.

If you're going to say "so and so is town" without reasons it is worthless

Brosius pointing out his willingness to wagon PeregrineV(DP replacement) is raising suspicions, but I agree with the front part of his post.

@Scott, wouldn't you rather eliminate someone from a 4 person team? I'm assuming Feysal wouldn't want to wagon someone on the team with lower numbers unless he was on the 4 man team. It might be 3, like you said, but that probably wouldn't be that balanced.

[Furcolow]

Mafia hardly has any absolutes, but the fact that the statement is lynch ALL liars makes me sort of like where Fonz is coming from. The problem is he replaced in, so he had a biased read of the game, which wasn't in the general flow of it.

I actually just found a flaw in my own reasoning about Feysal. If you're interested, ask me about it. It is not solid, and I'd be happy voting here again in the future, but it is enough to make me unvote for now.

unvote

[Furcolow]

notice my post above yours
notice how it completely refutes your point
make your post anyways

seems scummy

vote: PeregrineV

[Furcolow]

It comes up when you post that someone posted. You would have seen it; you should have EBWOP.

[Furcolow]

Feysal - can you elaborate on why the EGL case is suddenly invalid?

I disagree with even having to ask this
It is just his opinion
EGL hammering/actively lurking is scummy

[Furcolow]

@Mod

Can we get prods on EGL and Feysal?
I normally wouldn't ask after 5 days, but they are both needed for questioning. Thanks.

[Furcolow]

BotS, if I explain to you why I unvoted Feysal, he will most definitely seek that angle of his defense. Now, I know defense is overrated, but I am eager to see Feysal's in this case vs why he would be seeking out the smaller scumteam vs the larger one.

I find your Fonz case to be reaching, plus information instead of analysis, and it raises my suspicion of you

[Furcolow]

unvote

i want to hear what feysal has to say

[Furcolow]

Im here
I've been pushing feysal for a year

[Furcolow]

Just because he disagrees with me doesn't mean he is right
I want to be sure we lynch US-scum or whatever, not soviet-scum

[Furcolow]

Fonz, your B in relation to my BP claim implies I had knowledge of 2 scum groups, which at the time, I did not. That will definitely be backed up in my iso.

[Furcolow]

I feel like Feysal and Smarg are on opposite scumteams
It would really fit the flavor, too
I would wagon either of them

[Furcolow]

Still waiting on Feysal before I vote his ass off the island
Feysal, you better make it good

[Furcolow]

That's a good point, Sathoris, it makes me not even want to be Fey-stalling with my vote

[Furcolow]

vote: The Fonz

I don't like the "we have to do this" or "we have to do that"
Hell, we can pick between them at LYLO for all I care.
Fonz is really being too close-minded.

[Furcolow]

I'm not saying Feysal isn't scum, but he may very well count towards the soviet win condition
Smargaret may count towards a western win condition
I am clueless as to what those are, or how they will be met exactly in terms of numbering, but come on...
Berlin wall, anyone?

I need to read the fonz's wall, will possibly unvote, but i doubt it

[Furcolow]

Fonz said "(therefore elaborating on the fact that I am all too familiar with Furc's meta)"
You have played HOW MANY games with me?
If ANYONE here OTHER THAN ME is up to snuff on my meta, it would be ThAd.

[Furcolow]

Hence me counting Furcolow's staggering amount of anti-town statements against him as points toward scumminess.

To me, Furc's actually somewhat less antitown than normal here.
Gonnano's looking really scummy. He's gone for a lone wagon on a VI player who's actually playing better than normal, but isn't actually attacking any of the top three wagons.
Thanks ThAd for supplying the Furc as scum meta.

cut,
but,
wut?
sup?

[Furcolow]

Furc does try to scumhunt as town, usually. If a player is trying to scumhunt or faking the same, I can at least try to read them. If I'm going to policy lynch anyone, it probably isn't him.
Furc's openness about playing to survive feels like his town mindset. That said, I haven't actually ever seen his scumplay to compare.

@Furcolow: have you been scum yet? Can you link me please?

so, you're SO up to snuff on my meta, but you JUST HAD TO ASK LOL

[Furcolow]

vote: Feysal

========[]

[Furcolow]

Enigma, who has the most blue?

[Furcolow]

6v3v1 i think
possibly 8v2
or 7v2v1
but im leaning towards 6v3v1

brosius seemed happy with a jmj lynch, sheeping DP, but also cast suspicion on DP and that would be Peregrine now.
Both are helped out of not being lynches for today through SB's flip, fmpov.

[Furcolow]

Hold your horses, Fonz, a lot of people haven't even checked in yet this cycle.

[Furcolow]

vote: enigma

[Furcolow]

Fonz 2nd paragraph is a very good point
Fonz 3rd paragraph has me suspicious as to why he is analyzing scum power roles. Probably a red herring.

In relation to the quote about Enigma, and the bottom quote, you realize that considering all the mud you just slung here, it looks like you are buddying them?

[Furcolow]

bvoigt is town

unvote;
vote: Sathoris

[Furcolow]

Before I go back to see what I missed, I want to address this:
Enigma, that first quote of yours from Scott Brosius in relation to Smarg is something Scott would definitely say and have incentive to say if Smarg was, indeed, town. That quote is BS in making Smarg obv-scum.

Scott would want to string her up if Feysal flipped town if she was town and Scott was scum. It's called a twofer.

[Furcolow]

6v3v1

If we lynch town, the vig needs to nightkill

no analysis needed on that
6v3 - lynching the last Soviet scum - would the American scumteam win outright?
In case they wouldn't, we'll be at MYLO @ 5v3 without a vig hit, so the vig should hit for proper LYLO
6v2v1 - lynching an American scum
4v2v1 tomorrow if the vig doesn't hit
3v2v1 tomorrow if the vig does hit wrong
4v1v1 if the vig hits american
4v2 if the vig hits the last soviet

I am in favor of the vig hitting, if he can. If it is an SK, so be it, we can ride the lynch the SK wave. I'd almost rather it be an SK, personally, so there is less of a chance of an outright American win if the last Soviet dies.

If this is completely incorrect, whatever, I don't really want to hear it

[Furcolow]

@Mod: More votes on Sathoris please

[Furcolow]

Sathoris - 1 - bvoigt, Furcolow ???????????????????????

Vote count fixed, thanks. ~ Mod

[Furcolow]

Isn't it more likely for 2 neighbors to be on the same side in terms of alignment? I would imagine it would be. However, given the setup being East vs West and coldwarish, it's really easily argued from either side and needs to be dropped as an issue completely.

[Furcolow]

East Germany WAS Soviet.
There was a technical Soviet border there...
Another thing that doesn't need to be argued over.

Fonz, you are tunneling, and now that I'm beginning to get a town read, I'm going to politely ask you to stop. You tunneled on me, and now you're tunneling on smargaret. I don't know if you're wrong about smargaret, but given probability, and how I know you were wrong about me, I believe you are wrong here as well.

How about PeregrineV's charts? Do you find them helpful? Do you believe it is a ploy as scum used to not really have to discuss anything? That's how I feel. He replied to smargaret's one-liner with a little scummy quip

[Furcolow]

unvote

[Furcolow]

Enigma just claimed Lyndon Johnson

vote: Enigma

[Furcolow]

what do people think about sathoris, peregrinev, and lowell?
wouldnt be surprised to see scum in the unvoting ranks

[Furcolow]

Soviet

[Furcolow]

I am considering shifting my vote to PeregrineV due to interactions over Janos Kadar

[Furcolow]

I am, in fact, a doctor

[Furcolow]

the fonz and enigma are scumbuddies

[Furcolow]

Fonz when you talked with PeregrineV about actually researching Kadar in relation to nationality it made me relate to you on a personal level, because I have investigated who is likely to be scum in relation to who we have had flip.

That is also a reason for my voting of Enigma.

[Furcolow]

BAH