Gutwrench Powerbomb : Chesskid
Road to Wrestlemania: Game over - WWF wins - BANG BANG!
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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Sorry, I had another game finishing, couldn't keep up.
I've read through everything now post Rumble (I'm not going to try and look for reads in that because I didn't fully get the concept), my main suspect from these initial few days is BabySpice. I think she focused on Chesskid as an easy lynch on a VI, then eased off when nobody hopped on board with her. Tried to vote for AV instead which smacks of OMGUS and using town sway to hop without looking scummy, but doesn't unvote Chesskid so I assume her vote doesn't move.
Elsewhere, IS seems convincing, but I watched him try to lead a game to lynch a townie day one last time I played with him (he got lynched instead and flipped town) so I'm wary.
Mandible Claw : Baby Spice.-
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bristep123 Goon
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@ AV RE: #783 My first vote (on you BTW, would you have picked it up if it hadn't been?) wasn't done correctly (I thought it was only the rumble that had the wrestling move requirement.) so there was no need for me to unvote. Let me switch off your iron(y) for you.
@Nero RE:#782 I mean that I thought he was onto something as regards you, but I'm wary that he was wrong in the only other game I played in him with.
Brosius voted for Snake because he didn't think that Snake's vote on Furc was valid. I'd say that his reason for voting for Snake isn't valid. Also he hasn't made any real contribution (PKB, I know I know)
Trendall's ISO reads badly, promises analysis but doesn't deliver, "I understand the votes on me, but I think that everyone voting for me at the moment is most likely town" is an incredibly odd statement to make, especially when he questions why KK is voting for him later on (the question came later, the vote was already there before the original statement)
BS's responses have reduced my read on her, Brosius and Trendell need more pressure on
unvote:Baby Sprice
Samoan Drop:Scott Brosius-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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Really? I've said from days ago that I thought Trendall and Brosius needed pressure as both looked scummy. Hardly "I have scumreads on a lot of people but will ignore all of them to join the biggest wagon every day. LOLZ1111" In fact I can't see how you would derive one from the other. Explain please. In detail if you would.-
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bristep123 Goon
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Vezo, DDD and Chesskid now all saying my last couple of posts were "brutal", "horrible", scummy read, etc. Come on now kids, show your working because I'm not scum so lets see what makes you think I am.
I don't have 'lots of scumreads' as Chesskid said, I don't have much at all since this is my first large game and it's hard to keep track of. I do think Brosius is worth pressuring, and I think Trendall could be lurking scum since he's new.
I like how the talk is starting to revolve about the impending deadline, and getting people to shift onto larger wagons to avoid a no-lynch but when I do so ONTO A WAGON I'VE PREVIOUSLY STATED THAT I AGREE WITH I'm suddenly opportunistic scum.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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Can I ask that people like DDD who keep calling me scummy actually use the night phase to come up with something I can actually defend against? If all you do is say "bristep is scummy" all I can say is "no, I'm not". Actually show your working and I can hopefully give you some answers and stop you wasting more time on me than is needed.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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I don't have any solid reads, finding it hard to follow a game of this size (first big game played). Interesting that Bischoff flipped as a general manager rather than a jobber, was he a power role?
Snake, you are fluff posting about who the scum characters might be, and telling us who we should be hearing from. You also didn't commit to a wagon last phase, unvoting off of Brosius but never voting later on, even with the phase closing in. I haven't seen much in the way of actual opinion from you, other than speculation around the game mechanics. Who do you have reads on? Is Internet Stranger still as scummy in light of the Vezo/DDD incident? Do you have any more readings from him other than the hammer of Trendall/blame on Chesskid?
I don't buy that Vezo searched for wrestlers from Minneapolis, and was only able to find Shaun Davairi. I think Vezo may well have made an error (from the looks of things, he got the town of birth but not a name, and wrongly assumed it to be Davairi). People are pushing this as a bigger issue than I see it as, which is worrying.
To those voting for DDD right now, do you believe fully that this is a case of DDD being scum and Vezo town? Do you see any credence in Vezo making an incorrect assumption and DDD simply reacting to it, both as town?
Edit post preview - KK said it a lot better than I did.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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@Nero - "this whole game" makes it sound like we're in late game and I've contributed nothing. I'm still a newb, so I don't see these mystical magical scum tells as well as some people here seem to. I thought Trendall looked suspicious last phase, as I did Brosius. I was wrong about Trendall so it makes me take a step back and reassess my reads.
As far as today goes, Snake is suspect, as are you if I'm honest but I'm aware of what happened in the high seas game so at the moment am putting it down to your attitude rather than actually being scum.-
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bristep123 Goon
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@Furc are you still trying to guess what DDD's character is? Hasn't the game kind of moved past that? What about Rick Rude? He's from Minneapolis as well. And Animal wasn't born in Minneapolis, he was born in Philly. It almost reads as a fluff post really.
Edit for preview : @IS Lance Storm was in WWE for a few years.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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@Snake Mr Perfect was also born in Robbinsdale, and billed as such so why include Perfect and not Rude. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curt_Hennig
There's something not right about you...
Rude Awakening SnakePlisskin-
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bristep123 Goon
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@Snake Yes chief, just because you say "Oh and don't bother saying there are other reasons" doesn't mean there aren't.
"Snake, you are fluff posting about who the scum characters might be, and telling us who we should be hearing from. You also didn't commit to a wagon last phase, unvoting off of Brosius but never voting later on, even with the phase closing in. I haven't seen much in the way of actual opinion from you, other than speculation around the game mechanics" from post #1204 by me.
"Snake is suspect" from post #1237. Also by me.
"Oh and Rude was billed from, Robinnsdale, Minnesota.which ever so slightly different, but different none the less and why I didn't include him." from post #1272. By you.
I can see why you would think that I only think you're scum because of that last post. No, no, really I can.
I think you're fluff posting, and dancing around roles and characters to give the illusion of scum hunting. But please feel free to keep aiming that OMGUS finger at me.-
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bristep123 Goon
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I've literally played 7 games Snake, this being the 8th. You should know that I've only been playing since December since you were the mod in my first game over on UKFF. Since then I've played 2 more games on that site, and 4 here (2 replacing in mid game). Hmm, that would make your statement about me not being a newbie.... a lie? Or at best a deliberate misdirection.
Also, twisting statements to make them seem more absurd is another scummy act. I didn't say you shouldn't call for people to talk, but when it's part of fluff at the expense of scumhunting then it's suspect.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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@VP - Happy Birthday
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2868541
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2868567
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2868597
Kise claims he was assaulted overnight but survived, and since we know now (or can be pretty sure) that Thor was killed by Serial Killer Snake we can follow that logic and assume that Kise was the scum target last night and something stopped it.-
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bristep123 Goon
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Well Kise is either telling the truth and was attacked or is scum and is lying. I just don't know what the scum gain by making a fake NK attempt claim so early on? Would trying to out a possible protective role work in that way work? I mean if Kise is scum and lying then any docs/protectors we have would know they didn't protect him so wouldnt' make themselves known.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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dropkick Erratus Apathos
I'm going to go with chesskid's gut, if nothing else if he's wrong it gives us a reference point any time he tries to insist his reads are good.
Brosius asking for a DDD fullclaim is scummy, Vezo's pursuit of a DDD nameclaim is aggressive so seems more towny at this point.
Agree with the theory that there could be 2 serial killers (alt-night killers perhaps)?
Empking looks really lurky right now, and he jumped on the weak DDD wagon at the weekend when the hometown thing kicked off. Focused on IS, who I don't have a scumread on (more that he's acting in that polarising almost scummy way that I've seen from him before).-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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@chess yeah, high seas we were in together I replaced nexus at the end of day one
@Erratus - In the high seas game I played with Chess's gut scumreads were pretty accurate but nobody listened to him much because of his play style. He was off on a few as well but hit more times than not. I'm going with his gut because there's a good chance he's right and you are scum. The addendum which was kind of jokey was that if he's wrong, at least any time in the future that he claims his reads are good we can refer him back to this one.
BTW nice omgus there.
@Empking - That's what you interpret from my thoughts on you? That I think you're scummy because you have a different opinion than me? I gave 3 reasons for having a scumread on you. 1) Lurking 2) jumping on a weak DDD wagon and 3) Focusing on InternetStranger who I think is town. I can since add a fourth in that you are *still* insisting that DDD is scum on the basis that he won't nameclaim.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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@AV: Regardless of what reads you and EA and vezo might have on me, I find it interesting that you think that EA shouldn't have moved from one wagon he thought was valid but wasn't gaining traction to another wagon he thinks is valid but is. Especially when your vote is on him, as is the vote of the person who's wagon he's now joined.
As much as I wanted to follow chesskid's gut as a meta experiment seeing that you and IS are also now the only other people on the wagon and I don't trust either of youunvote
People seem to play their games assuming everyone plays the perfect symmetrical way, certain things are automatically scummy or townie. Maybe the fact that I've got less than 10 games under my belt and this being my first large game has something to do with how I've played so far. But I guess I can't ask town not to be wary of it, and I certainly can't expect the scum not to exploit it.
I don't have a clue which way to go, don't mind admitting I'm lost. I need to read through the whole thread again post rumble and try to get some clarity.-
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bristep123 Goon
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I just wanted it out there. I'm getting accused of scummy actions, therefore I must not be playing in the correct way. Learning process. Not all of us have been playing for years VPB, I think that's forgotten sometimes.
Also AV is talking to EA and discussing my percieved scumminess. He's not addressing me directly, and he's not giving specific points for me to respond to, so I need to interject myself. If there's a specific question I'll answer it, but if someone just says "he's acting scummy" then I can't really do more than say "no I'm not" and point to my newness as a possible reason why.-
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bristep123 Goon
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It might have been dumb Nero, but ulimately I while I want to win these game, I want to have fun as well and some people just seem to take it way too seriously. You were in the pirate game with him, he just about accused everyone over the course of the game, then at the end claimed his reads were godlike. At least this would have given me a valid reason to ignore him in future.
Regarding IS, I can only go with my recollection of him in that same game (only game I've played with him) and he was very similar in that game. I have a feeling in life he's probably a decent guy but on here he plays a very 'dickhead' sort of style. If you suspect him, his attitude will just cement that.
I'm not voting right now, because I don't have a strong indication of either wagon right now and last time I voted on something I wasn't 100% on I got called scum for it (Trendall). I have time, I'm going to go and do a re-read over next couple of days.-
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bristep123 Goon
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@Hoppster : I didn't trust him, doesn't mean I'm sure he's scum. I have one game with him in the past, he acted like this and *was* town (although got himself lynched D1) and tunnelled the whole day phase on a player who turned out to be town. So I don't trust his reads, but I also don't know what his alignment is.
@EA and AV : Clever stuff guys, just remember this cock-suredness if you get me lynched and I flip town.
BabySpice's last post is horrible, bunch of one line opinions with no basis or backup.
Primate is lurking, then comes in, answers the questions asked to him then adds in that he would vote for the person being focused on most recently to give an indication that he's paying attention and hunting scum when actually he's skimming, lurking and jumping on popular opinion.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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Bristep is kicked in the gut and then flung head over heels with a gutwrench suplex!
I'd rather keep playing and try to keep up thanks. First large game, I'm not going to learn much if I quit. I have a town wincon, and I care about it. Plain and simple really.
I'll admit I've struggled to keep up but I have a week off work so will read through the game today as I promised to do before the weekend and try to get a clue.
GMan's claim doesn't specify alignment. (i.e WWF One-Shot Vigilante) Are vigs specifically town roles? Would scum have one if there's more than one scum group since this is a large game?Last edited by Locke Lamora on Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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bristep123 Goon
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Sorry Lowell, thought never even crossed my mind when I posted.
I see merit in the IS wagon through the walls of text that some of the most vocal players have been throwing out, but when AV makes a congescent argument against him and follows it up with a clearly incorrect (and I know only I know that for certain) statement about me it makes it difficult for me to support anything he argues for, especially when he's focused in on me for some time.
Reading through the thread in ISO first to get a time line of each player before reading the whole thread, chesskid has a contradiction I want to highlight. ISO #130 "Gman and Vas are both town" from Tuesday 15th March, then a vote ISO #143 "Testicle Kick: GMan" on Friday 18th March, with no explanation for the reason. Now I can buy voting for a nullread to avoid a no-lynch, but voting for a town read at any point is anti-town surely?
Chesskid what happened between Tuesday and Friday to change your mind and elicit your vote?-
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bristep123 Goon
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Thoughts from ISO so far :
Empking voted IS after a Kise's vote/bandwagon start (based around the 'failed assault' flavour that Kise received). Firstly, is there meta history to support a claim that the target of a failed NK would get some sort of indication that it happened? We kind of put it down as being too ballsy for scum to try so early in the game, but Empking jumping onto it based on this weak reasoning, then riding it ever since (apart from hopping onto the forming DDD wagon briefly, then back again to IS). The intial vote seems weak, and he has given no supporting arguments for his vote or additional reasoning for it since.
IS has been guilty of behaviour that he accuses other of (eg, He accused EA of suddenly reappearing to defend himself while lurking, but then does the same thing himself while V/LA.), surely as scum he'd be more careful than that?
EA is actively putting himself out there with accusations, reading his ISO he's fairly consistant with his reads, and any voteswitching seems to be between his 3 reads. (myself included in that obv).
Furc is constantly breaking the quote/consecutive post rules, so a lot of his stuff is missing through mod removal. ISO #55 claims not to be aware of GMan at all (scumskim?) Still don't think I'm happy with the comment about keeping Snake around even though he thought he was scum (ISO #51)-
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bristep123 Goon
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@IS : He does round on you once you ISO'd him, but he had already voted for you before you ISO'd him so it makes things less clear than you say. He rounded on me later on as well after I voted for him but some people are just hyper-defensive in nature, it doesn't instantly mean scum. I mean look at his ISO #21, it's very anti-scum to be that arsey about an accusation. He does is again in #26, and is starting to look too uncalculated to be scum.
@AV - I know you're wrong about me, and I think you're wrong about EA. I watched you play a blinder of a game with Umbrage in the mutiny game so I know you're a good player, and capable of pulling off great scum tactics. The fact is that I would usually put you down as town, because tunnelling on me for most of the game would be suicide if I flip town. I think in this case though you know or think you have the skill to pull it off and avoid getting lynched as a result.
Sky-High Spinebuster : AurorusVox-
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bristep123 Goon
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You've been calling me scum, and have been since early on the RAW phase. I get that, and that wouldn't instantly be a scumtell but couple with the accusation of EA, trying to bait him into wagoning me by calling him my buddy, etc makes me think you're scum and trying to set up tomorrow's lynch at the same time as today's.-
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bristep123 Goon
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you paint both as scum buddies, one dies, you start playing the "well I was wrong, but that doesn't change my read on you" tact. It most certainly wasn't a slip.
Add in also now that you say you like an IS wagon in #1666, then 4 hours later in #1678 are trying to bargain with IS to get a lynch on EA or me? Surely if IS has a scum read then that would make EA seem more town as a result? You're full of inaccuracies, but articulation counts for a lot in this game so it makes you a lot more believeable.-
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bristep123 Goon
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"Nope. I said back then that I liked it MORE THAN a Gman wagon, but that neither were superior to a Bristep wagon. I also called him a town read that recently went null, not a scum read."
"Of the two, I preferred the GMAN wagon one because for a long time I thought IS was town and Gman was more null due to lurky lurky behaviour. But IS' posting defences against EA as soon as EA calls him on it, despite apparently being V/LA, is sooo hypocritical, considering IS called EA out on doing something similar (I'd argue IS' is even worse because of being V/LA). With Gman claiming something that can be confirmed on top of IS' hypocrisy, I now prefer the IS wagon."
Please demonstrate where you said IS had gone null rather scum? I see where you say that you thought IS was town, but there's no mention of null/scum. Given your use of statements like "I'd argue IS' is even worse because of being V/LA" it certainly gives the impression that you think it's scummy rather than null. It's when you post 4 hours later you're calling him null and trying to make a deal with him.-
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bristep123 Goon
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"your comment about me setting up lynches is an attempt to justify a vote on me for something I haven't even done" - No it isn't. See how easy it is to argue against someone presenting opinion as fact? All town have are suspicion and opinion, scum are the only ones who can deal in fact.
If town then this is your mindset as far as it comes across to me.
EA is scum and so is bristep, but wait a minute they're both voting for each other...they must be distancing because there's no way I, AV, could possibly be wrong!
Again AV, from my point of view youareeither wrong or your scum. And I think you're scum. If people believe you over me and I get lynched then that's unfortunate but if it leads to you being the next lynch so be it.-
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bristep123 Goon
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Really? Changing his vote from someone he thinks is scum at L-11 to put someone he thinks is scum at L-6 is scummy? EA has documented suspicion on IS and had it not been for me voting him then EA probably wouldn't have switched from him. I don't see that as scummy, but I can see how someone could push a fake suspicion based on it.-
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bristep123 Goon
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bristep123 Goon
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To AV, EA, Vezok et al : Promise me something people. Lynch me if you choose to, but lynch AV tomorrow because he's just so scummy right now. If it needs my town flip as added context to make you see it then so be it, but don't let him keep leading you astray for the rest of the game. I've tried to actively scumhunt, I've tried to speak my case but it hasn't helped. Obviously not everyone on or willing to wagon me is scum so I must have been in the wrong, but AV has definitely made the most of it and I hope everyone sees it.
I have no power, I am as Jobber as they come so there's no danger of you losing a key town role. I was tag team champ during the Rumble/RAW but it was moved on at the end of the night phase. I didn't get much use out of it, my partner was Bella so by the time Empking came in to replace there was no time to have any real discussion and he was new/fresh so couldn't give me any assistance/insight.
damned word count.-
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bristep123 Goon
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