American Gods Mafia - Game over

[LimMePls]

In, catching up.

Unvote
Unelect
Unelect
Unelect

[LimMePls]

Not surprised, he has been watching this thread more than half of the players.

Not true. Not sure where you get this.

[LimMePls]

Spoiler: End of Page 8 Infodump

Anyhow, onto random/not so random vote: Vote: Werewolf, you coasted along with one liners and being not so active, which wasn't helpful in our other game. I'm not a huge fan of policy lynch, but until a more serious lynch comes along, that vote will do.

I don't like the policy vote backed up with "but not for long" language. If you don't like policy votes, why make one? If this wasn't one, why did you bring it up? If it was a policy vote, what was the purpose if you have 0 intention of following through, especially if you announce that to the thread.

Reads like fluff posting, plus placing a vote because he has to, not because he wants to. BLENDING WITH TOWN.

WrathChild's 23 seems overly concerned with what others think about him. Given his not RVS'ing in his first post, but then RVSing in his second when ani RVS'd him over the lack of a vote only furthers this conclusion.

Question: Those who are currently electing, are they random votes, or are you actually electing the people you want to send backstage?

Odd question considering that plenty of discussion has already occured around who/why to elect. I also don't see any scum hunting potential in the question. Fluff posting.

SGR's 26 doesn't make sense to me. It's pretty obvious what Ythill is doing, what's the problem?

I agree with Llama; discussing the possibilities of who to sacrifice/resurrect is pointless when we don't have any flips.

Considering that the mechanic specifically says we can't use it D1, this is true.

I just want to add that I'm primarily a 9-5 PST poster on the weekdays and mostly offline on the weekends.

Is there a particular reason you mentioned this?

unvote. vote Locke

unelect Locke

That's odd, I think the question was perfectly valid. The point is that WC seems pretty concerned with what others will think of him. Like he's preemptively avoiding any "why is WC lurking" attacks. Also Ythill and SGR pile on to this. I don't get it, am I missing something? The question looks really good to me.

Ythill: Please don't tell me you are referring to the OMGUS vote my wraith as scummy?
Are you a really going to tell me page 1 that scum are going to come in say hi I'm scum and do the most obvious thing?

wait........reads wraith's response.

unvote:
vote: wraith

This post feels... forced. Or phoney. Something along those lines.

If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill, for:

1) Suspecting WraithChild under no basis (Cause he didn't RV? Doesn't matter. Cause he said "First Post"? Means jackshit. Cause he joked "OMGUS", doesn't mean crap either

2) Thanking WraithChild for a confirmation on being scum, where in the last post he didn't say absolutely anything that would confirm or even slightly give a scum tell (For saying he is inactive at certain parts of the day? Nope, and ythill suspected Locke based on him quoting that. For saying he has victories as Mafia on another game? WIFOM at best, WTH at worst.

So, yeah, I know I sound like I'm buddying, but I have no idea what part of the answer turned you from "What's the pro..." to "WOW, yeah, I see it".

Disagree. A LOT. Also, what's with the "I know I sound like I'm buddying...". Guilty Conscious?

Unvote
Vote: SGR
If you'd like to tango, Ythill, we'll be right here.

This just reads townie to me. Not sure if I know exactly why. Perhaps the pure openness?

There has been like 40 posts how can you base a judgement of trust on that? A lot can happen over the course of a day. You mean to tell me that you want to elect the players you trust the most based on their past performances? How do you trust anyone at this point of the game? Do you have information I don't?

If we can elect during twilight it's a no brainer that we wait until then.

40 posts in and I already trust people. This "suspect everyone" thinking is from a scum-mindset.

I just meant that we need to base these votes off reads and that the people voting already ARE NOT basing their votes off reads, but instead voting on the poster, but this is a pretty bad way to go about considering the whole random distribution thing.

What does random distribution have anything to do with this?

Except...I just read Llama's ISO, and he didn't mention anything like this. Ythill DID mention sacrifices, but he advocated the opposite (sacrificing players that are blatantly VIs). Hence, where are you getting the information from? I'd like you to explain what you meant, because I'm uneasy with the thought that you pulled this from somewhere less public than the normal thread.

Unvote; Vote: LL

This vote is OPPORTUNISTIC. The reasoning behind it is fail, since Llama did mention it here:

There is no real point to get into resurect at this point since no one is dead.

The only other post from Ghostlin to this point is the fluff/worthless post mentioned above. Ghostlin sat back, did not engage in the game in any meaningful way, and then engaged the first easy target he saw. I say easy target because this post was preceeded by 3 seperate players attacking LL (SGR, Seacore, and Ythill). So not only does Ghostlin make an opportunistic attack, he completely fails in the execution. SCUMTASTIC.

Elect farside22, Ythill, LlamaFluff Because I trust their judgement. Even if Llama is policy voting me. It's an early D1 vote. I'm not worried. Wraith's vote is stupid, and unless I see some underlying scum reason to OMGUS vote a voter who random voted him (extremely unlikely), then I'll ignore it.

I stand by my Wraith vote, however. All Wraith has done so far is explain how many games he's been in, defend himself and give us a very tiny amount of meta.

I'd also be up for an SGR lynch, however. That post on D2 just screams "Hello, I'm here and I'm going to defend Wraith because he's my scum buddy".

Townie.

WC's 55 is still overly concerned with what others think of him.

I'm getting voted for no reason

Lie.

Wrath. Stop defending yourself.

If you are town, and I have no significant read on you yet, but if you are town you are doing no good in defending yourself. You are going to make the next 5 pages all about you and waste our time.
Instead, scum hunt. If you are scum, your scum hunting should suck, and we'll catch you. If you are town, actually do the town some good.

Also, 0/0 is not 100%, but that's a separate issue.

Scum-coaching vibe. Given Seacore's attack against LL, who was pressuring WC, this makes me really nervous. As does this "If you are town, and I have no significant read on you yet..." buisness. SIT THAT FENCE. Major scum points here, conditional on WC scum flip.

Try 10-20.

Wrath. You've made your point. Please calm down, go for a walk, watch an episode of law and order, etc.
Then come back and make a case on someone. It doesn't have to be airtight (and obviously can't be) (inb4 Saint calls using parenthesis a scumtell), but it should show that you are analyzing the posts in the thread.

In other news,
Elect: Ghostlin
Elect: Seacore

GAH! These elects seem SO BAD to me. Explanation PLEASE.

Guys, SGRaaize is scum, lets get him

I'd also be up for an SGR lynch, however. That post on D2 just screams "Hello, I'm here and I'm going to defend Wraith because he's my scum buddy".

I lol'd
I immediatly

FOS

you (Dohohohoh, OMGUS) because you actually think for a second that Scum would not only buddy on their scumpartner, but do it as openly, cleanly and quickly as now.
If I do end up getting lynched... may god have mercy on Town's soul

As far as the SGR lynch topic goes, of course this will be biased, but when I see someone defend a player who was not in need of a defense at the time (Yes, I did not need anyone to stick up for me because the votes on me make no sense and I consider them non-threatening at this time), I tend to think it is scum trying to buddy-up with a townie that they see as a likely lynch in an attempt to gain town-points. I think that scum-babying is incredibly obvious and would be avoided at all costs by scum.

Its not so much as me defending you as me trying to get the logic behind your lynch so I can kill you

First point: I'm sure we, as town, will somehow incredibly survive if you somehow made it to the gallows. The FOS uses the 'scum wouldn't be so stupid to do that argument,' which is invalid, and illogical, and could lead to WIFOM. AtE noted.

Second point: This just sounds scummy. Why not ask the other players for a case? 'Oh, hi, I'm just going to defend you until I can figure out a way to kill you' in the hands of scum is like, 'Hi, I don't want to look like I'm sheeping but I want to find a legit way to throw you under the bus.'

I disliked your first post for being completely devoid of anything useful, and your second post reads like a scummy player.

Unvote. Vote: SGR

You're right on the 0/0, I'm gonna fix that. Thanks NERD!

What are you, nine? This is puerile and doesn't belong in a defense. Particularly when it's a good point.

IGMEOY: WrathChild

Haven't done this yet.

Elect: Ghostlin

: Obv.

Elect: GaggleofGeese

: I've played with Chess before, and have been less than impressed, so I'm surprised at this election, HOWEVER, GG has shown remarkably good judgement in the beginning of this game.

Elect: Ythill

: Disliking of his Wrath vote or not, the way he's handled himself seems pretty townie in this very early stage. He's kept up the pressure and is actively scumhunting.

Ghostlin abandons his LL position without a single word on the subject, and immediately starts with another sheeping other opinions wagon. GHOSTLIN IS OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM. Oh, and then to top it off, his elects are Self, Buddy, Buddy. GHOSTLIN IS SCUM.

You seem very interested in learning the meta for what is considered scummy here. Seems like a defensive tactic. Scumpoint three.

I doubt OGML was joking.

QFT. WC's entire play to this point can be sumarised as "overly concerned with what is/isn't scummy, and why others have the opinions of him that they do".

Ythill, I used to get burned like WrathChild is when I first joined MS. MS has it's own memes and differing from them earns you scum points. I was primary lynch target Day 1 in my first several games, and I've yet to be scum on this site. So I'm not too worried about.

But WC has earned scum points for a huge gap of logic in his last post. If I thought those actions were a scum tell, do you think I would just accept it and move on? No, it's a null tell, as I've said it's just a playstyle. If all we had to do to find scum was look for people not even attempting to provide evidence, it would be pretty easy.

Still, Locke is winning in scum points.

Seacore continues in the WC defense/not-really-a-defense sit-the-fence-and-be-prepared-to-come-down-either-way play. THIS IS SCUMMY BEHAVIOR.

Vote Lynch: Ghostlin

WrathChild admitting to trying to sound less suspicious sounds good, but Ghostlin voting me with bad arguments and lack of attention leads me to believe he's just trying to look good while joining a BW he thinks will pick up steam

THIS THIS THIS. QF FUCKING TRUTH.

@SGR: I hope you're not one of those bandwagoning-is-bad players because the opposite is clearly true.

It's not the bandwagonning that is bad, it's the manner in which he is doing it.

@Ghostlin: Which of Ythill's 3 of post looked like he handled himself well and kept pressure going?
And why?

In regards to SGR:
I find it odd that SGR would defend Wraith so earnestly. He does state he sucks at mafia so is it far outside the realms for him to defend his scum partner?
Also what the hell is with 2 fos's and no votes? What is the point of an fos? What is the point of not voting?

@SGR: Did you read the book the game is named after?
Why vote for Ghostlin over lets say morph who had poor reasoning to vote for you?


Elect: farside, ythill

Good posting.

Page 6 AGar OGML reads town-town to me. Subject to change.

OMFG EVERYONE ON PAGE 6 IS VOTING ANI INSTEAD OF OBV-SCUM GHOSTLIN. WTF!

Gaggle-Ythill interaction on page 6 is making me doubt my Gaggle town read. Somehow I've got the feeling that this is chess posting and not Faraday.

This interests and concerns me. It interests me because according to this, I'm Ythill's #1 scumtell, full of congitive dissonance and pouplist: and yet he doesn't vote for me. If the point of the day 1 exercise is to get wagons moving and suspect as many people as you can, not voting your biggest scumtell seems...wrong to me. It either says he's not confident on getting a case on me, which hasn't stopped some folks in town or that he feels I'm really not the best lynch for today, which makes no sense if I'm really your number 1 scumtell you should be more than willing to get rid of me.

Sorry, no. I see some of you electing Ythill, I'm questioning his motives in posting a scumlist and not following up on it. It's insincere.

Unelect: Ythill

I need to reread the game, see what people are seeing about Ani, and maybe even decide if Ythill's worth a vote.

LOL! This post is so awesome. L O L! The only reason he was electing Ythill in the first place was to blend with the town, who were for the most part electing Ythill.

Page 7 is turning the game to awesome with the Ghost votes.

OK, I'm back, and people saying I dropped off the face of the earth are exactly why I posted my schedule. BRB with comments.

Convenient absence was convenient.

LL-SGR page 7 reads town-town to me.

7. Ghostlin: Obviously didn't get my nerd joke, sarcasm is hard on the internet. So after I read his ISO, I had to go back and look at the cases being made on him because nothing really jumped out at me. I see Ythill put him at the top of his scumlist, but I see no explanation as to why. When pried further Ythill mentions Too Helpfull in #22 (I don't get this impression at all), Skimming and cognative dissonance in #43 (I do see some evidence of that and I think SGR and Seacore touch on that too) and populist in #76 (I have no clue what that term means in Mafia). Overall I don't get scum-read on Ghost.

I bet you don't.

I see Locke responded much earlier to my concern about his comment to WC about his schedule. I missed it, and I thought Locke not responding to it was a bigger scum tell than the original comment.

But he did respond, my bad.

as such Unvote. But maintain a slight FOS, I still think it could be scum looking for an easy angle.

Instead, I will jump onboard the Ghostlin train, he looks scummier than he did in No Exit Mafia, where he was town.
Vote Ghostlin

When Ghost flips scum I'm calling this a bus. Just FYI. Since I know this wagon falls apart, I'm paying particular scrutiny to where Seacore goes from here.

TL;DR

TOWN
Ythill
farside22
SGRaaize
OhGodMyLife
Locke Lamora
Llamafluff
AGar
A Gaggle of Geese (Faraday / chesskid3 hydra)
vezokpiraka
Tasky
animorpherv1
Saint
Apokalyptika
Nexus
Seacore
WrathChild
Ghostlin
SCUM

Vote: Ghostlin
Elect: Ythill, farside, Gaggle

Rest of game catchup to come ASAP.

ALSO, WTF HAPPENED TO GHOSTLIN WAGON, OMFG!!!!

[LimMePls]

Yeah, I was just thinking that. There was really no reason for Saint to get towncred on me based on the fact I commented that LynchMePlz was viweing the thread form time to time.

I want to be perfectly clear that up until I started replacing in I never read this thread. I think the players that are listed at the bottom are for the subforum (ie. Players in Theme Park). Since I happen to be in other large theme games, that is why you saw my name down there, and not because I was reading this thread.

[LimMePls]

I was just wondering about your schedule defense. Since prods are every 48 hours in this game, I'd think you'd either bold a cyclic V/LA notice for the mod or differentiate between V/LA and lite content for the weekends. It seems like you're concerned about player perceptions but not mod perceptions.

THANK YOU!

Llama is underwhelming me this game. Usually Llama has me convinced he's obv-town by page 3.

I don't see the ghostlin case.

That, is why you fail.

SGR's only built cases on people he's confident he can take to lynch. As soon as a person becomes popular, he seems to drop the case against them,

Read this. Read it again. Then look at Ghostlin's first 3-4 posts of the game. Bathe in the irony. Then vote Ghostlin.

I stopped reading that terrible IoA crap sandwich about halfway through. If you are town, learn to scumhunt... and hire an editor.

<3

UNVOTE: Ghost
VOTE: OGML

Zoooooooooooom.

Ythill I'm calling it now that this move right here is what deflated the Ghostlin wagon. Why on earth did you do this?

Ghostlin:
ISO#0: We disagreed on his first post at first. This head took it as a mild towntell due to going A and B the C of D when asked about experience.
While we both agree that the post could be called bad from a strictly theory point of view, neither of us found it scummy.

ISO#1: Reading the thread closely, pro-town intent.

ISO#2: General Helpfulness

Unreal. I can't believe anyone can look at those three posts and call them town. Simply astonishing.

So I most everyone in ISO today, seeing if anything bit me, and I did find something.

It may be 'rude' to do this. At this point, I don't really care. Before he requested replacement, did you acutally read Tasky? Two of his posts are variants of 'no time, will read later.' Two are votes, one on SGR for his rather scummy 'I didn't do anything wrong post', he's voted three times, but renders a vote of his redundant; votes SGR and has to be prompted as to cough up a reason for voting him and then unvotes and votes AGar again for no reason. Which by the way, he's been sheeping all major wagons, flying under the radar: WC, SGR, and now the counter wagon on AGar.

Tasky's worth susspecting and it's worth applying pressure for his replacement to find out if the the tactics continue. The only people who have posted less are werewolf, who's sorta infamous for it, and vezok, who is all but a confirmed VI regardless of which game he plays.

Unvote: Vote: Tasky

This isn't a 'SGR isn't scum' post, this is a 'hey guys, why aren't we looking at someone that's obviously not posting in the best interests of town?' post. Frankly, I feel that SGR is still worth a look, but frankly, Tasky's pretty damn suspicious.

This comes after a number of players are calling SGR town. ONCE AGAIN, GHOSTLIN ABANDONS A WAGON IN FAVOR OF AN EASY TARGET/MISLYNCH. GHOSTLIN IS SCUM PEOPLE. WAKE UP!

Not completely sure how I feel about farside-GG interactions on page 11. Given GG's strange reads/play leading up to this point I'm favoring farside.

Regardless of how you feel about GG or farside, do we really want them to go backstage together, get into a possible argument that might derail and dominate the backstage talk considering how they're going at it RIGHT NOW?

YES!

I find it interesting that SGR went to great lengths to make farside look as town as possible, then just went meh yeah don't care about AGar.

Vote: AGar

o.O

But then too many of my scum reads take this opportunity to shift to OGML wagon. Looks like they are sensing a building mislynch. In particular Ghostlin, Seacore and WC.

Oh, I want to vote OGML just for this post.


Also, FaraGaggle, it's not the opinions that made me think it was Chessagaggle posting, it was just the style. It was very reminiscent of recent tunneling attacks I've seen him do. At the moment, Gaggle v Farside is null read v null read for me. I'm more interested in a Ghostlin lynch. And I'm going to do some rereading and see whether I'm interested in an OGML lynch.

Considering he was the only one vote voting for so long and decided to start a bandwagon rather than join one that he felt was "pretty certain"... feels like scum. Could even be scum with AGar, but thats with not having a read on AGar.

I just did an ISO of OGML and it's moderately scummy.
There's a lack of scum hunting, there's rhetoric without cases. There's a lot of fluff.

I think OGML is scum. I think OGML could very well be scum with AGar due to two points. 1) AGar is on his list of "if SGR flips scum, these people are scum" there's no info there, so it could just be some light distancing. 2) He votes to start a wagon on AGar, knowing AGar isn't going to be a lynch today, but this way he can say "hey, I try to START a wagon on AGar ages ago, he can't possibly be my buddy.

But that relationship isn't based on whether AGar is scummy, I'll look into that lately.

So at the moment, I'll vote for Ghostlin or OGML, whichever has a larger wagon.

Unvote
Vote OGML

Choo choo!

I knew the Seacore's Ghostlin vote was a bus. Parked until the timing was right and then off he went.

I have since built an actual townread on Seacore.

So, like I know you said you don't like to explain your town reads and stuffs, but I CAN HAZ ESPLUNASHUN!?!? Cause I've come to quite the opposite conclusion.

I agree that we don't need to rush into an OGML lynch. We have plenty of time. In fact I find SGR's anxiousness to lynch him a bit suspicious as do I the push away from his lynch by Nexus and Ythill. I think it would be best just to leave him at L-2 until we are satisfied with today's discussions.

I love how eager WC is to make sure OGML is the lynch. "Lets take our time, but leave him at L-2 until we're ready". SO FUCKING SCUMMY.

I really don't like long Day 1s, they dilute how effective these early bandwagons are because all somebody needs to say is "hey, we still have crap long, lets try something else" and knowing somebody can do that means the wagons are much less informative.

Read more accurately "I don't like long Day 1s because I've successfully manuevered off my buddy and onto a mislynch, so lets get this over with".

MOI is scummy.

*sigh*

Somehow I completely missed Locke's unvote, that is where that came from, MoI.
Add Locke to Ythill, and Nexus in the deterring of the lynch. Nexus didn't even unvote with it, so I don't see why that wagon is there, though in terms of him as a player I wouldn't mind the lynch. However, I'm just not seeing him as scum. I am viewing him as newish town, something I definitely am good at spotting.

I am suspicious of Ythill now. His vote has been way too spread out, and he doesn't even see a problem with that. He is also directly attacking my credibility, which is hurtful to the town.

unelect: Ythill
elect: MoI
unvote;
VOTE: Ythill

Wrong, but I gotta say I don't see scum attacking Ythill like this. Seems like a VI tell to me.

Saint's town. He's just being dumb.

LOL.

So the back half of this reread was at lot less thick than the first, mainly because people just went round and round on the same stuff.

I'm all caught up, and my reads now stand thus:

TOWN
Ythill
farside22
SGRaaize
Locke Lamora
OhGodMyLife
Saint
AGar
Llamafluff
A Gaggle of Geese (Faraday / chesskid3 hydra)
vezokpiraka
MagnaofIllusion
animorpherv1
Apokalyptika
Nexus
Seacore
WrathChild
Ghostlin
SCUM

[LimMePls]

@LMP, my vote for Ghostlin is hardly a bus. I have stated that I will vote for whichever wagon is larger. I have completely stated my motivations, and what my actions will be in different scenarios. I sat on Ghostlin up until the point that enough people were willing to lynch OGML. The moment this wagon dries up I'll jump back. There's no stealth or secrecy in these switches, I've stated my two scum reads, have openly campaigned for the lynching of both and have been transparent about it the whole way through.

How is my jumping from one to the other different from Ythill's? Except for the fact that he also jumped off OGML?

Because you had multiple other actions that I think are scummy (as noted in my catchup post) and Ythill has like 12343129781435 town tells all over his ISO.

[LimMePls]

So first you were asking permission for the hammer and now you are blaming us that you didn't?

Anyway... I have solid reads on 12/17 players, and leans on a few more. We've had a few decent wagons and two of my townreads are clamoring to end the day. I think I'm ready to start working on the lynch.

Ghostlin remains at the top of my suspect list by a decent margin. Ani and Nexus are the runners up. A lynch on any of them would be good. By the numbers, OGML, Apok, and Wrath have been sufficiently scummy that I wouldn't mind seeing them hang. However, that last bit from Wrath means I'd definitely vote him over OGML and so I'm going to stay away from that wagon unless there is some serious to hop back on.

I'm going to keep my vote where it is right now because it seems like this wagon is still building. If people want to start rallying the Ghost wagon, you can count on my vote there to seal the deal.

What I don't understand about this Ythill is that your vote carries a lot of weight. There are lots of players that view you as town, as evidenced by the election count. If Ghostlin is your number 1 scum read, you should be HELPING US GET THE WAGON GOING, not sitting around waiting to see if we can get it going, and only then coming over. Your vote will be a big drive in getting the Ghostlin wagon fired back up. So quit farting around and vote Ghostlin. You know he's scum, I know he's scum, and he knows he's scum.

[LimMePls]

I've made two large posts catching up to the game with MOUNTAINS of evidence why Ghostlin is scum. If that doesn't get him lynched, then I don't know what the fuck would. Seriously, did you people read that shit at all?

[LimMePls]

Also why the sigh at us calling MOI scummy?

Because Chesskid calls MOI scum in EVERY GAME I'VE EVER SEEN THEM IN EVER? So I don't particularly trust that opinion.

[LimMePls]

and not long after he made it and there were hints of a ghost wagon coming back others come out of the woodwork to lend weight to a growing Nexus wagon.

Good fucking posting.

[LimMePls]

Town thought process. Other stuff too. Not really important.

Not really important? Why is that?

[LimMePls]

So first you were asking permission for the hammer and now you are blaming us that you didn't?

This is actually a good comment aimed at Nexus.

What was the purpose of this post?

[LimMePls]

Also why the sigh at us calling MOI scummy?

Because Chesskid calls MOI scum in EVERY GAME I'VE EVER SEEN THEM IN EVER? So I don't particularly trust that opinion.

This account isn't chesskid.

1. A Gaggle of Geese (Faraday / chesskid3 hydra)

The mod begs to differ with you.

[LimMePls]

Town thought process. Other stuff too. Not really important.

Not really important? Why is that?

Likelyhood of him being lynched is low.

So because he is unlikely to be lynched its fine for you to have an unexplained town read on him?

[LimMePls]

• People I feel are townie enough to go BS: GG,
  LMP
  ,
  SGR
  ,
  Saint
  , Seacore, farside,
  LL
  .
  
• People I feel are skilled/experienced enough to make the most of it: GG,
  LMP
  ,
  Magna, OGML
  ,
  Saint
  , Seacore,
  Llama, AGar
  , farside.
  
• I crossed out the ones who are not on both lists and bolded the ones who are but I am currently not electing.

Unelect Seacore; elect LynchMePls

Of the two, I think LMP is more suited to some stuff I have planned for back there.

Unelect Gaggle
Elect LynchMePls

I didn't think I was even a viable candidate, but if there is support for it, I want to go BS.

[LimMePls]

I need to quote this whole post because Ythill is just taking pieces of it as he chooses to make me look scummy. This board is incredibly difficult to get a foothold in. You show up and people automatically assume that since you're new you suck and target you as an easy lynch. I dealt with this exact same thing in my first game as well.

Get off your cross. No one went after you "because you were new" they went after you because you did anti-town/scummy things. Maybe you did those things because you were new, but how the hell were they (I) supposed to know that? If I see scummy behavior, I'm going to attack it. "I'm new" is NOT a defense.

Also, the rest of your post doesn't make you look any better. He took those specific sentences because those specific sentences SHOW YOUR SCUM MINDSET.

[LimMePls]

LL, are you town? I get this pro-town vibe from all your posts, but I'm just not getting a townread, it's weird.

This question and statement make my scumdar twitch some. Can you explain and expand on what you mean that you have a pro-town vibe but not a town read?

[LimMePls]

I'm assuming you mean "no sincerity"? How do you sense sincerity? Give me an example of a player who is playing like LL but has sincerity, so that I can judge what you mean.

[LimMePls]

I'm not asking you to stop doing it, I'm just trying to get a grasp on exactly what you're doing. I'm also trying to sense your motivation in making the statement in the first place. And the first step in doing so is trying to understand exactly what you're doing.

So your head tells you town but your gut tells you scum? Is that a way to describe it?

[LimMePls]

Ythill,

Maybe because we're done with the wagon hopping and ready to get a lynch? You think WC is plainly superior to Ghostlin? Explain why. Otherwise get back here.

[LimMePls]

oh hey look, MoI flipped scum in aSoS.
The only time chesskid was "trolling" MoI by calling everything he did scum.

*gasp*
Can it be, that CK can read MoI really easily?

1) ongoing games, you know better, blah blah blah.
2) For every example there is probably a counter example. In this case, I know there is:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=15407
Town-CK massively misreads Town-MOI.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: 00iCon

Might as well confess 00, I've hammered you.

[LimMePls]

Sorry everyone, but I need V/LA for the next day, maybe 2. Pretty swamped. I'll post ASAP.

[LimMePls]

My skim/read ratio seems to climb dramatically whenever Fate joins a game. Just saying.

Elect: GG, Faraday, Fate

TOWN
farside22
Locke Lamora
OhGodMyLife
SGRaaize
Saint
A Gaggle of Geese
AGar
Llamafluff
vezokpiraka
MagnaofIllusion
animorpherv1
Apokalyptika
Nexus
Seacore
WrathChild
SCUM

@Apok: I'm willing to hammer. Claim time

[LimMePls]

This explain back stage stuff is bullshit.

We cannot have the game run by 4 people. Some stuff needs to come out. I don't care if it's Gaggle's clearing of me, or Llama's clearing of AGar or Gaggle's clearing of Llama, but this game should be played at least somewhat in the open. I don't trust llama and I don't trust farside. I'm not saying either or both are scum, but that's 50% of this Backstage team that I'd prefer not be there. The game is not going to be played completely back there.

Llama, I'm not saying out your results or whatever it is that you think you've found, but these one liners of "no, I'll say why backstage" are not helping this game's day game.

It's also is a fairly sneaky way to get voted back stage again.

SEACORE IS SCUM. Still.

[LimMePls]

This explain back stage stuff is bullshit.

SERIOUSLY.

I don't have any grasp of what's going on with this game. And everyone is just "hush-hush... backstage reasons... secret... vote me backstage...".

You know what. Fuck it. I'm protesting until I feel differently.

un-everything

It sounds like you backstagers are clearing each other which is great, but you haven't cleared everyone that's been voted backstage and it's possible that some bullshitting is going on. Right now it sounds like too many people are trying to rush the day, so first I'd like to hear from MagnaofIllusion before making any votes/sacrifices/ressurection/elections.

How about we play Mafia and not Big Brother, huh?

SO IS KUBLAI.

[LimMePls]

Elect Locke Lamora, Kublai Khan, Seacore

*cringe*

[LimMePls]

Elect: LMP, GG, farside
Vote: Seacore
Sacrifice: KK
Resurrect: Apok

[LimMePls]

but I also find it extremely suspicious that LMP was elected backstage on a measley 3 votes, making him the most likely candidate for a scum-promoted BSer.

LOLWUT!? The scum all wagonned me BS and left it up to a coinflip because it was so important to get me backstage? Also notice that I could have BS voted myself yesterday and guaranteed I went BS, but I didn't. If it was so important to my EEVIL PLANNZ, why would I leave it to a coinflip.

I'm just saying that I don't think we should keep the same group backstage. If anything only return one.

Me thinks that all the "OMG we need to change the BS" talk is scum driven because there were no scum BS last night.

[LimMePls]

Saint-scum would not surprise me in the least. I'm glad you're here and posting though, because I completely forgot about how much you need rope. Ythill's play in regards to you at the end of D1 is pretty telling.

[LimMePls]

Unsacrifice
Sacrifice: Saint

[LimMePls]

WC is a world class angler. His last 3 or 4 posts have been nothing but high quality fishing.

[LimMePls]

Does that mean you disagree with my point I just made?

[LimMePls]

Role fishing can be done in many more ways than just "what is your role". Don't be obtuse. All of your recent posts have been designed to elicit more information from him about his role than he has been willing to claim. THAT'S ROLE FISHING.

No. I'm pretty sure I know what that is anyway, no rolecopping involved.

my role is unlike any I've ever had, tbh.

So his role is obscure enough that it is "unlike any he's ever had", but you've deduced what it is anyway? That's fantastic.

[LimMePls]

You know what, I think WC should have to say what he thinks Saint's role is, and how he deduced it as specifically as possible.

[LimMePls]

What's the matter, don't want to be on record with what your "deduction" is? Why is that?

[LimMePls]

I was not roleblocked to my knowledge
my role enables me to pick between 3 options at night, one which has a 50% chance to obstruct roleblocking
that is all that I am going to share for now

@WC: Is this what you "deduced" him to be? If not, what did you deduce? And why was this "so obvious if your paying attention and using logic"?

[LimMePls]

Prodded. Not caught up from my missed weekend. Will post when I'm caught up.

[LimMePls]

I gave a 1 shot BP to the Greatjon.

It was 2-shot! LAL!!!

Actually point still applies unless Saint flips vig I forgot already. Scum wouldnt be able to draw an extra kill power from lynched scum or lynched SK as that makes the game really unbalanced (vig less likely to be lynched so I can see it happening). We just dont get to prove it this way. Anyone see what I am trying to loop in here? I feel like im losing myself and everyone else in this logic.

Damnit Saint needs to post.

This, plus this post are awesome posting for me.

This is where I'd unvote and vote Seacore, but I already got that covered.

Not llama's case so much as I've just been suspicious of seacore for a while and this is finally an opportunity for a wagon on him to actually go places

We're lynching this into the ground when Seacore flips scum.

[LimMePls]

Not llama's case so much as I've just been suspicious of seacore for a while and this is finally an opportunity for a wagon on him to actually go places

We're lynching this into the ground when Seacore flips scum.

Also, this. Isn't this one of those classic moves where Scum declares that his buddy is scummy assuming that a townie is also scummy. So that when the townie gets lynched and flips town, the case evaporates but the distancing remains.

To prove that's not the case, I'd be willing to lynch the pair in any order.

Your move.

[LimMePls]

^^Win.

[LimMePls]

Has anyone ever seen caught scum claim SK? How did it work for them when they did?

[LimMePls]

I know nothing about flavor, so no idea what the prime number buisness is.

1. Please explain what about my claim changed between 79 and 86 that took if from a fine claim to a convoluted one.
2. Please explain how you find my claim to be convoluted in light of your own claim which operates based of Prime Numbers? Given the ‘cool little twist’ you had in your role-pm why is the twist to my role suddenly convoluted.

x2. I'm not buying the claim.

[LimMePls]

Wait, why is 1 not a prime number?

[LimMePls]

Surprise surprise, I agree with Magna in a Magna vs. Chesskid. What a shock...

[LimMePls]

Elect Apok
Elect ooba

[LimMePls]

Its like every day farside has to throw out her reads and start all over again. That convenient.

Agreed.

[LimMePls]

Vote: GG

[LimMePls]

On phone in airport. Will post tomorrow.

[LimMePls]

N3 - LMP is not mafia

True story.

[LimMePls]

Wow... failtacular.

[LimMePls]

Sacrifice: MOI
Resurrect: Fate
Vote: Farside

Elect: GG
Elect: Apokalyptika
Elect: LMP

LMP should justify the garbage vote on us yesterday too.

I thought you were scum and was thinking MOI wasn't? Yes, I herp derp'ed it up.

[LimMePls]

I love you Llama. That gambit is so pro.

Unvote

Just to stop any quickhammering shenanigans until we have our sacrifice/resurrect lined up. farside is definitely the lynch.

Unresurrect
Resurrect: Vezo

[LimMePls]

farside's arguments are unpersuasive. They all boil down to "why would you do that, you MUST BE LYING". I don't buy it.

My biggest hesitation is: Who thinks town would get Tracker, Watcher AND Gunsmith along with the two revive mechanics? Seem pretty freaking strong.

[LimMePls]

hey lmp what do you think of this? http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17272

bit annoyed i'm even taking something outside the game into account but it makes me lean farside town

WTF does this have to do with anything?

[LimMePls]

As I see it, town basically has to decide do we believe LF or not. If we believe LF, we lynch farside. If we don't believe LF, we (not sure here). Right now I'm leaning pretty greatly towards believe LF, but I'm open to persuasion. I agree that the town sure seems to have a lot of power, ESPECIALLY with the whole resurrection mechanic.

[LimMePls]

So I've been thinking, and the problem with the Gunsmith claim is that usually gunsmith is supposed to be a weaker version of a cop (ie they can get a false positive). But in this game, we haven't had a vig right? We only had an SK. Which would make the gunsmith a full fledged cop. In other words, in order for a gunsmith to exist, there must exist characters who show up positive but aren't scum . Otherwise it would just be a cop with some inv-immune scum.

So if LF is a gunsmith, where are our false positive players? I hope this makes sense.

[LimMePls]

^^For the record, I'm not necessarily saying if those roles exist they should claim them, I'm simply explaining a problem I have with the claim and saying that we haven't seen any flips that would corroborate LF's claim.

[LimMePls]

Sorry for spamming, but the fact is that the existence of an SK rather than a vig is what is giving me trouble with gunsmith claim. I'd expect gunsmith in a game with a vig (who shows up positive to GS).

[LimMePls]

@LMP - I have no idea how my role is counteracted this game. Maybe there are some wierd scum PRs that directly counters my role like some type of a framer + GF, or this takes a mechanic that ive always wanted to try (scum investigate innocent until they have performed a kill in a PR heavy game).

But all of that could be accomplished with a regular Cop. My understanding of a gunsmith is that they are a cop that gets guilty on vigs. But we don't have a vig this game.

Could be MODWIFOM, I don't know, but it makes me slightly uneasy.

[LimMePls]

What about 'Operation Mispel Second Word And Mismatch Single And Double Quotes"? Looks like you've got that one in full effect.

[LimMePls]

Ugh this game.

[LimMePls]

Oh... my... god...

[LimMePls]

I love you Llama. That gambit is so pro.

Unvote

Just to stop any quickhammering shenanigans until we have our sacrifice/resurrect lined up. farside is definitely the lynch.

Unresurrect
Resurrect: Vezo

MOD YOU MISSED LMPS' UNVOTE

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LL

E


P


I


C

NO MORE VOTES UNTIL WE'VE LINED UP THE FUCKING RESURRECT.

And for the record, I completely understand MOI's being pissed. I would be too in that situation.

[LimMePls]

Ok, looks like we're lined up.

Unresurrect
Resurrect: Fate
Unvote
Vote:LL
Unelect: LMP
Elect: farside

DON'T FORGET TO SEND FARSIDE BS GUYS!

[LimMePls]

So we're going with "town has 3 investigation roles"? That just seems so unlikely to me.

Elect: farside, GG, LMP

Not voting yet.

[LimMePls]

WC then Llama. Who's with me?

[LimMePls]

Lmp do me a favor and reread day 1 interaction with LL and Ythill and how they both attacked WC. Remember when I said I thought you were scum for finding WC scum when I read him like a newb. Does LL's attack on WC look like bussing?
I'm serious about all these questions.

I see no reason that scum would not pounce on their own that is playing scummy. And once they've done so, I see no reason for them to not ride it till the wheels fall off. It is not nearly persuasive enough for me to take WC lynch off the table.

[LimMePls]

Lets lynch Llama. Are we ready to end the day?

[LimMePls]

I had big problems with his claim yesterday. They all still hold, plus the convenient moving of his ressurect vote just when it would be most helpful for the scum plus pretty much all of his play today makes him the obvious lynch. I also think he claimed the guilty on WC as a last ditch effort to gain himself or his partner town cred. So when he flips scum, WC is NOT off the hook.

Unvote
Vote: Llama

[LimMePls]

I would hammer but farside was very adamant about not voting WC over OGML today, so I want to hear more about this. No reason to rush this.

[LimMePls]

So here's the thing, WC is at least trying to defend himself. OGML doesn't even act like he cares. And the game being at this stage, a townie would care. So I'm going with OGML for scum. Plus 2024 works for me.

Vote: OGML

[LimMePls]

I cannot believe that just happened.