Square Enix IV (GAME OVER)

[PranaDevil]

vote: Nero

Fake day killing bar steward.

[PranaDevil]

Unvote
vote:MagnaofIllusion

Well that was easy.

[PranaDevil]

But Prana jumping on a building bandwagon proclaiming ‘That was easy’ without even stopping to ask why Fate ignoring Vezok was worth noticing?

Scumtastic.

You mean your attempt to get attention off you by saying "hey look at Vezok!"?

[PranaDevil]

So sorry Fate. Next time I have to catch a bus to go to work I'll get permission first shall I? Yes, I read your post, no I didn't have time to respond. Such a shame.

Incidentally, my viewpoint on it is "meh", I know your play, thus I also know to not even give attention to you acting like that. It doesn't mean anything in the long run, we're still in early day one, thus it's a null tell when it comes to you.

MoI is still scum.

[PranaDevil]

One little bit I forgot in my last post

- Notice that Prana continues to comment on nothing happening in the game other than his own wagon / comments directly pointed at him.

I was due out the door again not too long after. Unlike most I have strange hours, and get the middle of the day off (which is either spent in town or at home, depending on what's going on job wise). So didn't really have time to give the thread a good read. However far as I'm aware, tomorrow should be a simple morning job, so I shall be giving a better read through on what's going on then when I can read properly instead of skim read.

[PranaDevil]

Right, work got busy rather than dying off on Thursday, thus why I'm posting now and not back then. So I'm re-reading through to catch up and see if I've missed anything.

Like an accidental one, or someone slipped? I think Fate already has 4 votes or something, for that matter.

I did it because I had a broken breadcrumb, but now I have fixed it into an even stronger breadcrumb.

This unnerved me at the time, but wanted to see more from Iec as I remember he made a pig's ear of day 1 in SE1. But why would you even announce that you've left a breadcrumb until the point you need to reveal as much? Either terrible town play or scum hoping to convince people they're town.

Hmmm ... Fate so casually ignores a budding Vezok wagon ....

Interesting ...

This is why I voted MoI, which I'd have figured was obvious. Fate's voting MoI and MoI's comment on it boils down to "hey, look over there! PL Vezok!"

Unvote
vote:MagnaofIllusion

Well that was easy.

It is indeed. I almost can’t believe you jumped onto a horrible wagon so obviously.

Almost

UNVOTE: Vezok

VOTE: Prana

Most obvious OMGUS vote I've ever seen.

You better have a meta argument to back up your recent claim. What's so interesting about Fate ignoring Vezok (other then I would have preferred the day kill on that man)?

Read Fate’s post game series of rants in the recently ended Objection Mafia Redux.

However, annoyingly, this (and DTM's subsequent pulling out the important posts) does indeed make me wonder why Fate wouldn't want to get rid of Vezok so quickly. Which in turn does remove a lot of my suspicion of MoI, as I could understand MoI just trying to say "hey look over there!" as scum. But by the same token if MoI does (as has been shown) know that Fate would normally push a PL of Vezok, the fact he hasn't done so is going to stand out.

It leaves me confused though, as a scum pairing of Fate/Vezok would normally still have Fate voting Vezok for PL reasons and then find someone else that he could turn his attention to. Which leads me to believe that there isn't a Fate/Vezok connection, as it's almost too glaringly obvious for Fate to balls up like that if they were buddies.

So, that being said... perhaps they're not buddies, Vezok is town, and Fate doesn't want anything to come back on him if there is a PL on Vezok day 1 that he pushed for? Plausible.

I will list: Disgaea Mafia 1, Linked Role Mafia Part 2 and Part 1, Square Enix Mafia 1, Disgaea Mafia 2, and Reboot Mafia. All of these are games we were in together. None of them were games where the avatar influences you. All of these games gives you the ability to attack me/judge me/defend me/ make a read on me.

None of these avatar shenanigans, all hard earn time and blood spent in these games. Ice should be shot as well.

Break time, will comment on the Prana case after

I like this too. In fact it makes me believe Iec is more likely using the lack of an avatar stuff at that point to merely comment in the game without actually commenting "on" the game. If you understand me. I'd be happy seeing Iec lynched at this point.

2. I wouldn't consider 4 votes a wagon. Fate and Ice together aren't quad voters pulling out all the stops man. I find it odd that you

focus on Prana who attacked you

rather then look at the Fate wagon likewise.

Not quoting the whole thing to avoid a longer wall, but it's post #72 (Not in ISO).

This actually makes me feel better about my MoI vote again, and explained things better than I ever could.

@DTM: MoI's argument on Fate is strange. The more I think about it, the more I'm entitled to believe about it. I mean, normally Fate should have come in here with his caps lock on and yelling something like, "OMFG VEZO IS IN THIS DAMN FREAKING GAME, LYNCHING THIS DAMN BASTARD TO HELL!". I'm more then sure the majority of the people can agree with me on this.
Prana vote was just bad. That was easy? Like really. Its obvious bandwagoning.
Other then what MoI pointed out, no, not yet.

@RBT: When I saw your post, I just lol'd.

Yeah, not liking Bunny as this goes on.

Previously already dived on me for voting MoI, and asked a question of me, which should have been directed at MoI (I wasn't the one who went "don't vote me, look over there!" after all). This feels like a way of piggybacking on MoI's Fate argument, then claims my vote was bad (but conveniently ignores DTM's vote on MoI).

Umm..... You do realise, Fate, that you just claimed a major villian in a

SQUARE ENIX GAME

in [/b]SQUARE ENIX MAFIA[/b]?

He did? Oh good, being that it's day 1 of course it makes no bloody difference. Which makes me wonder if you are scum trying to find an excuse to vote someone.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bunnylover
No mention in post 49 of Prana's vote, now he's saying it looks like obvious bandwagoning only after Magna points it out.

Nor any mention in post 62 after Magna has pointed it out, instead Bunny waited until later to even comment on it, and then did so with a terrible question too.

The DTM-avatar discussion seems like a pointless distraction, so I'm just going to ignore it.

Why? It could be a "pointless distraction" by a scum, deliberately putting a pointless distraction out there. In which case it shouldn't be ignored.

Unvote; Vote: Chrono

Fate may be joking; I'm not sure. I was scum with him in SE2, so I know he knew that scum had gotten fakeclaims in earlier SE games. If they were randomly dropped here and Fate didn't mess with pre-game stuff, I could see him being confused. Seems like a pretty severe error for Fate to make, though.

Chrono's response does not make sense with what Fate just did, though. Fate's response is either uncharacteristic acceptance s/p being scum or joking along s/p being town. Looks like Cassandra points or saving throw, idc which.

This post makes zero sense.

Chrono knows Fate's style, so it's obvious that Chrono should also know that Fate posting a picture from a Wiki doesn't mean a damned thing. Which makes his post perfectly fine.

The fact you are saying Fate's either being uncharacteristic in accepting it, or joking, means you should also know Fate is joking... meaning you are deliberately voting Chrono for sweet eff all reason suddenly.

Ergo, this along with earlier stuff means Iec = Scum.

I was just pointing out that Zodiark voted Fate on a flimsy reason. And now you're doing the same thing.

Zodiark/Iecerint scumteam?

I would be in agreement with this. With the addition of MoI and Bunny

@Kdub: I didn't ignore it. I'm just not confident. I constantly question myself if my thinking process is right or wrong. So when I saw MoI post, my mind was ease since I knew that I wasn't the only one thinking the same thing.
You'll notice in my play that I don't become bold with my post until I am frustrated or aggravated.

That would be the post you read, posted after, and then only voted later on would it?

Lynch All Liars?

CHRONO MAKING SENSE=THIS GAME DOESNT MAKE SENSE.

As long as he's not in charge of the god damned town PR's this game we'll be fine... No you are NOT living that game down Chrono.

Right now, it all seems like a bunch of banter. The only thing that sticks out for me is how quiet bv is. He's normally quiet when he's scum.

Banter? There's been a lot more said than what I've quoted above, and that should be more than enough to get more than "bv is quiet" from you.

Prana obviously needs more votes to properly ‘motivate’ him to play. Let’s get on that people.

Or I could have just been, y'know... busy. But hey, let's not let that stop a scum trying to force a lynch.

------------------

TL:DR

Scums:
MoI
Bunny
Zodiark
Iec
Starbuck

If there's two seperate teams (which I suspect) they look like this:

Team 1:
MoI
Bunny

Team 2:
Zodiark
Iec

Could be either:
Starbuck.

And seeing as the Zodiark wagon is a go-go...

unvote
vote: Zodiark

If scum also feel like hitting opposing scum tonight, please feel free to use the above to do so. It would be much appreciated.

[PranaDevil]

Not buying the DTM-scum at the moment, though I wouldn't say he's obv-town either. Nero is playing badly. So no change there (:P), and Dutch... is either really, really poorly playing town or really really bad obvscum. I'm unsure which side of the fence to fall though. However if his play keeps up like that then I'll happily help along a Dutch wagon, I just feel we have much more important scum to hit right now in Zodiark, Iec, Bunny, MoI and on the tail end, Starbuck.

[PranaDevil]

You say you can't really form an opinion on Zodiark.

You've got Fate AND Chrono listed as likely scum despite the fact that they are perhaps the most obv-town we even have in this game so far.

bunnylover (of all people) is your ONLY town read, despite the fact she's not really been acting town thus far.

And to top it off (I'm not mentioning everything, obviously) you're listing reck as a "nervous" townie... seriously? It's Reck, it's not like he's been around long enough to know what the hell he's doing or anything. If he is a nervous townie I'm Queen of England.

[PranaDevil]

Hmmm...

Dutch one is either a really really bad player or... no, sorry, there's no or in that one. Only a really really bad player would self vote like that. There's no logical reason as to why someone should ever self vote like that. Plus the reasoning for it is non-existant. As has been said, nobody was actually voting for you (beyond Chrono), people were just pointing our that your reasonings were, to be quite blunt, shit.

What you're essentially saying is "If you so much as look in my direction I'll get all emotional and pissy", which, if that's how you are going to be when playing Mafia, means perhaps this isn't the game for you.

However I don't feel you're a viable lynch, you could be scum, or you could just be exceptionally bad overall, and knowing what Kise's last SE game was like... I don't want us risking a mislynch. Last time we lynched right almost across the board and still almost lost. Zodiark is still the optimum lynch for today.

[PranaDevil]

Chrono-scum. I agree with this post, and the fact he turned up dead is of no surprise.

Being that we are yet to learn Iec's alignment, are likely to have more than a single scum team (as per Kise's previous Large SE games), and therefore know there's a chance of crosskill (I still say MoI is scum, and hope that itself was a scum kill, or at least a well placed vig). You're awfully sure that the only explanation is Iec is town and Chrono is scum.

Which means the only explanation I can come up with for you to be so positive of it is that you're scum and know Iec wasn't on your team.

vote: Battousai

[PranaDevil]

WHAT THE FUCK PRANA GET OUT OF MY HEAD

But it's roomy and spacious in here.

[PranaDevil]

Because of what Fate did, and Chrono knowing that Fate pulls that sort of stuff regardless? Just like I know Fate would pull that kind of thing, and scum Fate wouldn't want to risk a potential wagon on him so early, while town Fate will try it and see who jumps on it for little or no reason, or look for who deliberately avoids commenting on it.

Or am I scum because I believe in Fate-town at this point as well?

[PranaDevil]

Kdub, serious question, why does the Batt wagon become wagoning scum from vote 3, while the Zodiark one from vote 6?

[PranaDevil]

Chrono, considering the above post by Kdub... wouldn't it be prudent to be saying why you quickhammered Zodiark before a full claim?

[PranaDevil]

Prana:
Dutch was starting to gain some steam on D1, but it was Magna's vote that really turned it around and started the rush of votes that led to Zodiark's lynch, so I put the cutoff there. As for Batt's wagon, I felt the same way about Katsuki's vote opening the floodgates. Do you disagree with that assessment?

The only issue I see with that, is that why is the one that opens the floodgates also considered scum based off it? Surely it should be those following on from said gates opening that would be scummy?

That being said I still think that MoI was scum, and if we ever get to see a flip (It might be delayed, so we'll find out at the end of the day or something) I'm sure it will show as much.

Fate, I've said who I believe is likely scum, now add Batt to the list. Everyone else is town at this stage because I've no reason to believe them to be scum.

[PranaDevil]

giving lists like that is extremely anti-town.

QFT

MY ROLE RELATED INFO WORKS IF YOU DO AS I FUCKING SAY

Yeah... and being as none of us know if you have a role as such, it could all be bullshit. What's more so far this day phase (If you are town) you may as well have gone "hey scums, you need to kill me tonight". As you've announced you have a role that (somehow) requires you to know who everyone else believes is scum or town.

For a start, I call absolute bullshit on any role like that, second you know as well as anyone else that posting a full scum/town list is just letting the scum know just how well they're doing, and helps them much, much more than it helps town (if it even helps town at all, I'd say it doesn't). Thirdly, you're basically saying that everyone in the game should follow you or they're scum.

Fuck that shit.

[PranaDevil]

No one going to answer my question? Why did you not react to MoI's fake daykill of vezo, nor of vezo's VT claim?

I guess I'm used to blatantly fake daykills now, and Vezo's a plank.

[PranaDevil]

I count it as vezo being vezo. Thus null.

[PranaDevil]

You have my scum reads, get on with that lot, and while I'm at it.

unvote
vote: Fate

You know as well as I do that it's extremely anti-town to post a full list of everyone in game and state whether they're town or scum, and I'm not buying the "It helps my role" bullshit either. Because it's just that, bullshit.

You're either scum lying about things, or you're town with no role like that to speak of, and therefore are doing something that will be extremely anti-town to get discussion moving.

Either way you're doing a shit job of it, and being as I don't believe you're dumb enough to forcibly try and get town to post anti-town lists if you were, indeed, town. I can only deduce you must therefore be scum.

[PranaDevil]

So... you have a role that is ONLY effective if EVERYONE claims who they believe is town and scum?

Fuck off.

[PranaDevil]

The rules of playing with Fate:

"Do as Fate says"

That's it, don't think, don't use logic, don't actually play the game, just do everything Fate says, even if what Fate is saying is anti-town.

Fate, what you are proposing is utter stupidity, you're suggesting the entire player base of this game posts an ANTI TOWN post, and because I point out that, and point out that you are talking utter bollocks "I" am stupid?

Get fucked, or lynched. Or both for all I care. But there's no way in hell you are town and trying to direct the town to play in an anti-town way.

[PranaDevil]

What part of "you're obviously talking out of your hole" don't you understand Fate?

You are suggesting that your role will "100% find scum" but only if everyone posts their lists. We KNOW that it's bullshit, so shut the fuck up about it.

But let me humour you.

What if everyone's lists are actually on the wrong track? Will it still find scum? Of course it wouldn't.

Then there's the fact that you (and yes, me) led a lynch on Zodiark yesterday, considering your role why would you choose to not do the same yesterday? Simple answer is that you're talking out of your hole and being scummy as all fuck.

I strongly suggest we lynch Fate, there's no way he's town directing town to play badly, which in turn means he's scum.

[PranaDevil]

HOW does it help scum? It doesn't. It helps town AND let's me use my role effectively to catch multiple scum.

For someone who's been here a year, you're dense as fuck.

How does it help scum? Let me list some ways:

Scum know exactly how well they're blending in (while otherwise they are only guessing based on people's comments. If I only have a slight read on someone I wont necessarily call them out on it, scum would be thinking they're playing well, and slip further because of it. If I announced I felt they were likely scum, they would pull themselves in). So that's point one.

Scum would then also know exactly who the most obv town players are. If this works out to being one of them, then they know exactly who to keep looking extremely pro-town out of their group if there's a need to bus. Point two.

If there's a couple of people causing trouble for scum, but aren't viewed as that "obv town" could also be killed by scum while knowing there's almost no chance of a doc protect (and if it appears there is, then they'll have a nice small list of who likely protected them. Namely those who felt they were town). So there's a third point.

Anyone who shows up as town (and as far as scum are concerned, IS town (they wont know if it's town or opposing scum) will be ignored regarding night kills because it's almost guarenteed the doc would protect them. Meaning scum can look elsewhere and get a free kill in. Without the lists the scum might not be entirely sure, and would target the player, meaning scum lose a kill. Point four.

That's merely off the top of my head. Those are some fucking important things for scum to know, I see absolutely fuck all that would help town though, beyond your "but my wole wud be gud!" Which is bullshit in the first place.

The fact I'm having to fucking TEACH YOU THIS FATE is fucking ridiculous. You're going to play the fucking "dur, I don't know how it's anti-town to reveal full lists, dur!" card despite being here longer than me (albiet only be a week), and think you wont get called on it? Fuck that shit. Either you're a complete plank who needs to go relearn the basics, or you know full well how it's anti-town and are pretending to be a dumb fuck and were hoping you wouldn't get called on it.

You're scum who is attempting to pull the wool over the town's eyes by bullshitting about a role.

[PranaDevil]

So if it doesn't help town, try disproving what I've posting above. I dares you.

It's fucking Mafia 101.

[PranaDevil]

I meant "doesn't help scum", and you should know that.

So point stands. Go disprove ALL FOUR POINTS I stated regarding how it helps scum and not town.

Oh, and I have a role where if everyone tells me exactly what role they have I can find all the scum in one hit. Now are you going to help me, or point out that it's a bloody stupid, anti-town, and nonsensical role? It's the second one isn't it? Which is exactly why I'm calling Fate out on his bullshit.

Now come on bunny, get to proving why my four points (and there are more) don't actually help the scum while harming the town. Go on.

[PranaDevil]

Oh, and for the record, a vig doesn't need everyone to state their entire town/scum lists. Unless the vig is a total prat, in which case the best thing they could do is shoot themselves instead.

[PranaDevil]

5. I've already told you how it will help town. You are refusing baselessly. If I pull any shenanigans I will be lynched immediately, but I've already PROMISED
all will be made clear after I claim, but this claim comes AFTER all the lists.

6. Attacking my experience is laughable, you're not teaching me anything. You're just arguing mafia theory and you're going to lose, besides the fact that in this game in PARTICULAR with MY ROLE that only I KNOW, my plan is the most pro-town.

7. Check-mate. Make a list or get lynched.

1 - 4. All rubbish arguments against what is perfectly logical and sound issues with your "plan". But then, at this stage you're arguing it for the sake of arguing it, because to suddenly back down would be evidence that you're scum.

5 - You mean those lists some people have already made clear we're not posting? On your bike miss.

6 - It's exactly what I said earlier "Do as I say, and only as I say, or I'll be pissed" right? No trying to play well, no trying to properly hunt scum, no, just Fate dicking about and trying to shout down anyone and everyone who points out how piss poor the plan is.

What's more, even with the tiny, tiny chance that you do actually have that role and are town (I don't believe it, any role that hinges solely on making everyone else play anti-town is only ever scum or third party based, or made up entirely and not a role at all), you're basically just trying to base your reasoning on the back of "I'm Fate, do as I say, RAAAAAGE!" Which... is a shit tactic.

Thankfully I know it's just you being you, but using that fact to get people to act anti-town to help your scummy win condition.

7 - You mean you, by yourself, are going to lynch me?

Oh, and my vote will now stay on Fate for this entire day phase, unless we have idiot scum who blatantly out themselves. But I think you'll find that Fate's as good as done that.

[PranaDevil]

AND PRANA IS GONNA FLAKE BECAUSE HE HAS NO REASON TO COME BACK AND CONTINUE HIS "FATE IS SCUMZ" CHARADE SANS CLAIMING SCUM.

OH NOES! SOMEONE HAS A JOB AND CAN'T POST CONSTANTLY!

Though as a bonus to you I've picked up the flu, meaning I'll be doing sweet fuck all for a few days, so I wont suddenly "flake" by doing work stuffs from 7am until 5pm, and being tired as all fuck when I get home.

Incidentally. I see no "soft claim" and being as you've outed that you're a power role (lols) why not just come clean with what it is so you can "catch scum out"? Hmmm? Or is it still all bullshit so you can try claiming people are scum for not bowing to the great king Fate?

PranaDevil- Ok, you refuse to post your list. Why not try scumhunting instead of fighting Fate with mafia theory and logic. If Fate is scum, then he should have a scumpartner. Why not try and find him/her?

Good idea. Though at the moment all Fate has really done is scream and shout, and say that those following him are town, and those not following him are scum. For instance, day 1 I was obv-town because I agreed Zodiark was scummy as hell (turns out we were wrong, thus already proving Fate's auto-scum sensor stinks), today I point out Fate is acting anti-town (I'll note that the only reason he demanded everyone's lists was because "everyone needed him to hold their hand" (Paraphrasing of course). That's not a liable reason to post full lists.

Bunnylover and Starbuck are still scum reads from day 1 that haven't lifted, so add Fate to that list now.

[PranaDevil]

Maybe he has some kind of lie detector role. Doh.

A lie detector role that targets everyone, at the same time, to determine whether people are honest in their town/scum reads... at a point where everyone is being told to give zero null reads?

Yeah... no. Not happening.

[PranaDevil]

Batt - Okay, we'll do that. There you go then Fate.

Town - Me
Scum - The rest of you.

Done. Have a blast scum.

Vezo - There's a difference between being a bastard, and a role that would announce all the scum in one hit. He'd never consider it.

[PranaDevil]

"obvtownfate"? What planet are you on reck? Fate playing like shit is "obvtown" is it? Yeah, right.

Sorry, I'm not buying Fate's bullshit claim, a lie detector is a lie detector. Buuuut... run your "lie detector" over this:

I know, as 100% fact, that Fate is not on my side.

Now, if you're honest to god town, you will know that Pranascum would know that as fact (because if I'm scum, whether it's scum team A or B, I'd obviously not be aligned with you).

WHich means when it flips false, it will prove that I have no clue (100% obviously) what anyone's alignment is. Thereby leaving the only possible conclusion that I am 100% town.

Of course the great thing about this is if you claim it's true and I'm lynched, you get lynched in double quick time day 3. If you claim it's false (and thus I am town) I become a confirmed town. Okay either way it means I wont see it through to the next day, but hey, so what? It outs you as the scum you are.

Oh, and just in case you require it to be in an entirely seperate post. I will post that one and only line all by it's lonesome immediately after this one, so there is absolutely no excuses for why you got the result you got.

[PranaDevil]

I know, as 100% fact, that Fate is not on my side.

[PranaDevil]

you do realize, Katsuki, that the only reason to shoot me will be a scum kill because Fate will soon be proving that I am 100% blatant town.

Unless he wants to lie, call me scum, get me lynched, yet knowing he will be lynched tomorrow off the back of it.

Any "vig" who shoots me at any point now will have some damned hard explaining to do to prove they're a vig and not a SK.

[PranaDevil]

Fine. Have this then:

I know, as 100% fact, that Fate is not the same alignment as me.

[PranaDevil]

There's no way that can be deemed "ambigious". So go ahead, use your "Lie Detector" on it.

[PranaDevil]

Doing it the way your doing it isn't helpful.

It's not helpful? How's that then?

If that honest to god had a lie detector ability, and wanted to "prove" I was scum, he would have used it on my post there. Simply put, if it game up true then it would prove, without the slightest doubt, that I'm scum. If it came up true, it would prove, without the slightest doubt, that I'm town.

There's no in between, there's no possible chance of it not working.

Reason Fate wont/wouldn't do it? He knows he would have to admit to me being definite, 100%, grade A, known and confirmed town.

Fate wouldn't be able to stand that, being proven wrong and having to admit as such in thread. Instead he prefers after game to go "RAGGGGGGEEEEE YOU PLAYED SHIT ARGHHHH!"

Then everyone should make a list of town, consisting of prana, batt, reck, and bv.

Scum know who their buddies are, so they'd be caught by the lie detector, whereas town do not know for sure that they are scum, and hence would be telling the "truth" in thinking that those players are "town".

You haven't a clue, do you?

For a start, we have two scum teams, as we have had for the previous large SE games. So not only would scum not even know who was on the opposing scum team, but what if all four are town? I'm pretty certain Batt is, the way Fate's going after reck makes me believe he could well be, and bv I'm not sure about either way at the moment. But it would actually mean absolutely everyone would throw up "true". Because town wouldn't know so wouldn't be lying to begin with, and scum would know, but it would completely cover their arses with it.

And on the slight, small, and totally unlikely event that Fate's telling the truth, he would then waste the role investigating those and getting nowhere.

So I'm wondering if Katsuki is scum now... but that only happens if Fate is a different alignment to her (be it opposing scum, or poorly playing town).

[PranaDevil]

Prana your an idiot.
Just make the list.
Its not that god damn hard.
You think Fate is scum then put Fate in the scum section. Saying were not the same alignement is fucking stupid. We don't know Fate alignment nor your alignment, meaning nothing going to happen if he used the ability on you.
If you do it like your doing this is the results we can get:
1) Fate says its a true, so we have to see which one of you is Scum/Town, or since you believe their is 2 teams, it could be that both of you are Scum.
2) Fate says its a lie, we have to decided if you two are on the same scum team or town team.
If you do the actually list, everything is fine.

Your stubbornness is stupid. God damnit, we should have lynched you the first day.

Fate when should we lynch MS?

Do you understand how it works?

It doesn't matter whether YOU know Fate's alignment or my alignment.

If Fate has a lie detector ability THAT WILL SHOW UP WHETHER I'M TELLING THE TRUTH OR NOT!

If I'm telling the truth (by saying I know, 100%, that Fate is the same alignment as me) then it will prove that I'm scum. That's it. It makes ZERO difference on what you or anyone else believes at that stage, because the lie detector would come back saying "He's telling the truth, he knows you aren't the same alignment" ergo I would HAVE to be scum.

However, if I'm lying and I haven't a clue whether he's the same alignment as me or not it can ONLY be because I'm town and therefore don't know 100% ANYONES alignment.

How can you not understand that? Seriously? It's plain as day, it's a straight black and white scenario, there are no shades of gray in that one, none, whatsoever, not even a different shade of black, it's just clear cut "true/false".

RAGEEEEEEEE YOU PLAY LIKE SHIT LIKE ALWAYS

You mean like SE III where I was the one, and only, player to catch Bill as scum, and we almost lost because I died and not a single player actually looked at it and went "you know.... he has a point" until it was too late and we had to pray scum crosskilled in the final night phase?

At least I'm not in here claiming a power role, which would get me lynched that night, when it's a role that could quite easily have been kept under my hat until such time as it's actually useful and so distracting the town.

Of course, being as you're scummy as all fuck, chances are you don't have a lie detector role, and you're just hoping to god for people to just sheep you into oblivion.

If you are a lie detector, why did you feel the need to go skitzo on everyone instead of, y'know, targetting people who had made previous claims and the like (like Vezo) to see if they're being honest or not, to gather some confirmed town without outing your role until it was worthwhile to do so?

[PranaDevil]

Prana, make a list. Your statement doesn't work for obvious logical holes and fallacies. If you are LYING about not being the same alignment as me, you can be SCUM that doesn't know my alignment still.

Name those "holes and fallacies" then.

Seriously, what you just put there is pure bullshit.

The point is, if I'm scum, I would KNOW you aren't in my scum group, and as per Kise games, each scum group has a seperate alignment (it's not just "scum/town" as you well know, it's more like "scum/mafia/town" three seperate alignments.

But, being as you seem to be desperately clinging on to any and every attempt to wiggle out of it. I'll give you a nice simple one that you have zero ability to wiggle out of. Lie Detect (lolz) my next post, it will only have three words in it, 7 characters total (9 if you include spaces). If it returns "true" you lynch me, if it returns "false" then you can admit your play is fucking god-awful this game.

[PranaDevil]

I am scum

[PranaDevil]

town - Smaller than a city
scum - the dirt around the rim of the toilet.

I'm not playing anti-town because shouty mcshouterscum tells me to. You have a way to prove I'm town or not, you're just trying to wiggle out of it, because you don't like being proven wrong. Go lie detect what I told you to. But I'm going to state, point blank, that you have a 0% chance of me playing anti-town just because you dictate it.

Also, anyone calling me scum at this point is either scum themselves, or town that needs to wise the hell up.

[PranaDevil]

@Prana: Are you just ignoring the post I'm posting?
We don't know your alignment or Fate alignment.
So if you say Me (prana) and Fate are different alignement that could mean:
If a Lie:
Town - Town
Scum - Scum
If its true:
Town - Scum
Scum - Town
Scum 1 - Scum 2 (since both scum team have to kill each other to win, they are not of the same alignment)

Do you see how doing it the way your doing is stupid now?
It doesn't help, just do the list. Why is that so hard? Afraid to put some of your scum buddies in Town/Scum list?

Actually, what you say here is false, 100% false.

When I say I know me and Fate are the same alignment, it means the following:

If false:
town/scum
town/town

It CANNOT show that I'm scum. Because if I'm scum I would know, 100%, that Fate wasn't my alignment. If I was in scum group A, and he in scum group B, he would still be a different alignment to "me" in that situation.

As he refuses to use his lie detector on that post, it is conclusive evidence he's scum.

It's also why people should know, 100%, I'm town, because I've given a guarenteed, 100% way to prove either way. Fate just refuses to do it because it will out him.

[PranaDevil]

@Prana:
Prana is not the same alignment as Fate.
If this comes up False.
That means if Fate is town, You are town.
If Fate is Scum, you are scum.
How do you get that your town regardless of Fate alignment? If it comes up false, that means you two are the same alignment, which means either both of you are Town or Scum. Not you can be town in both situation and Fate alignment change.
If this comes up true.
Then either its:
Fate Town - You Scum
Fate Scum - You town
Fate Scum on team 1 - You scum on team 2.
Thats simple.
If Fate is scum, then he just sacrificed one of his scum buddy to prove his fake ability to work. Which means your vote should be on Reck. That also means that the opposing scum team (since their are two) will shot Fate in fear of his fake power, which result in another scum dead.
So where is the logic in not pretending to go with this?

*bangs head on brick wall for stupidity*

It's not whether it's true or false IN RELATION TO THE GAME

It's whether "I" am telling the truth or not.

Thus, it can ONLY show up false if I'm town. Nothing else, even if Fate is town (here's a hint: He's not) it would show up as false because "I" ould not know that as 100% fact. Because, and this is rather important here, I AM TOWN.

Do you understand how it works yet?

YOU ARE TRYING TO EXPLOIT LOOPHOLES OF MY ROLE. AND IT IS CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE YOU ARE FUCKING SCUM.

IT IS MY ROLE, NOT YOURS. I KNOW HOW IT WORKS. I HAVE REQUESTED YOU TO POST THE ENTIRE PLAYERLIST UNDER TOWN IN ORDER TO GET AN ACCURATE RESULT ON YOU. YOU HAVE REFUSED. YOU ARE SCUM, OR THE BIGGEST IDIOT EVER.

No, you are trying to exploit loopholes to get out of not using your role.

You're basically saying "my role only works on full town/scum lists", I say that's bullshit, you know it, I know it, anyone in game with a brain knows it, and I gave you a solid and guarenteed way to prove I am town or scum. But you don't want it, and instead would rather piss and moan and whine about it. Why? Because backing down now would out you as scum. Simple as that.

Oh, and just so I can say I called it:

Reck wants out the game, Fate is using that to bus him and buy town points. Calling it now because no bugger will believe me, everyone will buy into Fate's bullshit (unless it turns out Reck's town, in which case Fate would be autolynched anyway), and we'll lose because people would rather sheep Fate than play well.

But just for funsies.

unvote
vote: Reck

And being as it would appear Katsuki just voted him too... that's a hammer isn't it?

[PranaDevil]

YOU CANT SAY ITS BULLSHIT AND THEN VOTE ACCORDING TO MY ROLE.

YOU POST A TOWNLIST WITH EVERYONE ON IT,

QUESTION: WHY NOT? WHATS THE DOWNSIDE

Regarding the first line, yes I can. I'm of the belief you are lying, but are bussing your scum buddy for town points because said buddy isn't really into the game that much. On the offchance he's not your buddy, he'll flip town and we can get rid of you tomorrow.

As far as the second, I've done better than that, I've allowed you to confirm whether I'm scum or town, you're the one refusing to take it. It's also fucking funny to see you playing like shit because you would rather rant about the fact I'm playing pro-town rather than anti-town.

And of course I didn't theorize you could be scum on the opposite team of Reck, I believe you're bussing your buddy.

However if you ARE on the opposite side to him, it means you're scum with a lie detector role (which, given it's a Kise game) is plausible, which would be hilarious because it would show you're telling the truth AND lying at the same time, in which case congrats.

[PranaDevil]

@Batt: I believe that I was trying to figure out how Fate powers worked in that post.

@Prana: I kinda already said what your claiming your calling "First".
The two possiblities of it coming up false lies with:
You are town and Fate is Scum
You are Scum 1 and Fate is Scum 2.
I mean why won't you do the list? The list would end all this debate. If you have nothing to fear, then just do the list.

Hmmm, I kinda see where you're coming from with the second part.

But the fact remains that there is zero reason to post a list. Fate's only got a lie detector role if he is a scum with a lie detector role. There is zero pro-town need to do what he did. He could have just probed and asked questions of people, and used the lie detector on responses to said questions, instead of trying to dictate to everyone, and (as is usual with any game with Fate in it) shout down anyone who disagrees with him. Deciding people are scum off the back that they disagree with his play.

Plus, at this point, it's funny to see Fate get all pissy.

But have a ball:

scum - nobody
town - Everyone in the game

(And no, Fate can't claim that doesn't count, just because I've not listed every player's name, does not mean I haven't actually listed every player in the game, but he will, guarentee it).

[PranaDevil]

Actually, Fate, I stated there's zero pro-town reason to demand full lists. I then stated that you shouting everyone down is what you do regardless.

They are two entirely seperate entities.

So thanks for the misrep.

Also, some nice proof that Fate is scum.

Fate stated that doing the lists would guarentee lynching scum today.

Fate has since stated his role is not unlimited use and can only be used on even days (nice excuse for not using it yesterday nor will be using it tomorrow, lolz).

Fate also believed Reck was likely town.

So, he felt Reck was likely town, yet uses his Lie Detector role this day phase on him anyway.

Which in turn means that Fate "knew" he would hit scum this day phase, despite having a role that wasn't unlimited use, and wouldn't ever guarentee he would hit scum with it this day phase... meaning the ONLY way he could be sure he would hit scum 100% would be if he knew it would hit scum BEFORE he got everyone to post lists.

The above = Fatescum.

[PranaDevil]

Except you previously GUARENTEED we would hit scum this day phase.

How can you guarentee it if you're not sure the person you choose to check is scum or not, hmmm?

Let's say for instance you ARE a Lie Detector, and Reck was telling the truth... what then? "Oh sorry guys, he's town, we'll just have to scum hunt"? So it's rather... convenient that the one guy you check is scum after you've guarenteed a scum lynch.

Fate, you're either scum with Reck, or you're scum with some ability to investigate players (rolecop mebbe?) and you nailed Reck last night, so you want to buy town points today.

Sorry, not buying it. Fate is scum people, and I've proven as much, because he slipped up by announcing he would definitely hit scum prior to using his claimed role.

---

Vote Count:

Reckamonic: 8

(Fate, Chronopie, BunnyLover, KDub, vezokpiraka, Midnight's Sorrow, Katsuki, PranaDevil)

BunnyLover: 2

(bv310, Battousai)

Battousai: 1

(Reckamonic)

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(Nero Cain)

vezokpiraka: 1

(Riceballtail)

Not Voting:

Starbuck

Lynch:

8 votes.

Deadline:

February 17th - 2:00 AM EST

[PranaDevil]

How will you confirm me? You've already used up your role this day phase, you couldn't confirm me until day 4 at the earliest, as per your previous statement.

lolz.

[PranaDevil]

Except you know I'm town Fate, and you know you're scum. You know I've called you on exactly what you pulled. All you're doing now is damage control, trying to act like I'm the scummy one because I spent the day phase not being stupid and giving a huge list of town/scum reads that, in actual fact, were meaningless but you needed to try and pretend you were doing something.

But just to shut you up once and for all:

scum:
nobody

town:
1. KDub
2. Nero Cain
3. Reckamonic
4. PranaDevil
5. Chronopie
6. Midnight's Sorrow
7. vezokpiraka
8. Fate
10. Starbuck
11. bv310
12. Battousai Dutch one
13. Riceballtail
14. Katsuki rewq455
18. Bunnylover

But hey, I'm still scum aren't I? Despite the fact I'm obv-town at this point, and you're obv-scum.

[PranaDevil]

Yet you're the guy who wanted everyone in the game to post anti-town posts to satisfy his own pride. So who needs to re-evaluate who's pride really?

If you are an honest to got town lie detector, you made a totally shit job of it.

If you aren't, you made an even bigger shit job of it.

The only way that play was remotely good is if my thoughts of you being scum with a rolecop, who found out Reck was an opposing scum, are correct. In which case you made a good attempt.

[PranaDevil]

and Katsuki, you still suck, massively. I'm scum because I don't play anti-town. Then I'm scum because I argue with Fate. Then I'm scum despite the fact I posted a list of everyone listed as town, which (as per Fate's own "ability") would mean I'm town, but Fate wouldn't investigate me anyway, because he doesn't want to admit he's wrong.

In short, regardless of what I did, you and Fate would claim I was scum with absolutely no reasoning behind it. At least I gave solid reasoning as to why Fate was talking out of his arse.

[PranaDevil]

Except for the fact that it IS anti-town to post lists. Just because some people stick their fingers in their ears, or just blindly sheep you, doesn't change that.

As I say, you're either scum or playing like shit. There's no two ways about it. If you've honest to god got a town lie detector role, you played it like shit. And I have, in the past, defended you against people who think you're one of the worst players on the site. So to me, that says a whole hell of a lot, namely that I believe you weren't such a bad player as to be that poor at doing things. Evidentally I was wrong.

[PranaDevil]

No, if you're town and a lie detector, then HOW you played your role is shit.

A good player in your position would not demand the entire game posted anti-town lists just to appease you and make your job easier, they would treat it like any other investigative role. Namely try not to get lynched or not killed, and look for where their role can be used and use it there.

Not come blundering in, shouting off their heads, demanding people post utterly worthless lists so you can make a guess as to who might in fact be scum, despite claiming you would guarentee a scum lynch today. When for all you know you would investigate town, and be no better off for it, but have revealed you have a role and wind up night killed. Is that in town's best interests? Of course it isn't. Thus if you ARE town, you played like shit.

[PranaDevil]

vote: Fate

Previous reasoning stands.

[PranaDevil]

Some things of note:

Iecerint's character is from a non-SE game.

There was no flavor in Reck's flip that suggests multiple scum teams. In SE I and III, each mafia group had a specific name. I'm thinking there is only one mafia group and an SK.

GummyBear's death flavor, "leaves", is the only one different from the rest, who have been "destroyed". He also flipped immediately, whereas DTM still hasn't flipped. There is some mechanic that we still don't understand yet that is more complicated than just a one-day delayed reveal..

Regards to this.

If we don't have multiple scum teams, then I'd say the scum team have characters that can all kill each night, rather than just one of them, Hence the Destroyer role for Reck. However, if that's the case, where would that leave us in regards the "leaves" flavour? As that wouldn't be scum, but it doesn't read as a vig either. It sounds more like 3rd party that did (or didn't) succeed in it's win con. But it's flipped as a town protector, so it couldn't be.

But I am more of the view that it's likely we have a smaller scum group now and each member has the ability to kill, solely based on the fact that night 1 had three players destroyed, and night 2 has had only 2. Meaning if we hit scum today we likely bring it down to 1.

So now we need to work out what's going on with the leaving flavour. As it sounds more voluntary rather than being done by someone elses role.

[PranaDevil]

So each scum member can kill and I SUPAH BUSSED a scumbuddy which lost my team a kill?

You still acted scummy as fuck on Day 2. Whether you admit that or not is up to you, but your actions damned sure weren't pro-town, even if the end result is we hit scum. Not a single thing you did to get to that point was pro-town, and if you are a lie detector role who nailed scum, then you got lucky. It has fuck all to do with you being good with what you were pulling yesterday.

SPEW MORE BULLSHIT SPECULATION PLEZ SCUM

Your views on why we have 2 "Destroyed" flavour kills last night, and had 3 the night before then. Go.

And Nero makes a great point, Katsuki is willing to throw someone away almost immediately the day starts instead of going after her main suspect. The day's barely begun, town have no reason to sheep and risk ending the day that quickly.

unvote
vote: Katsuki

[PranaDevil]

Right, we either have 3 scum all in one group, and all with "Destroyed" flavour, or we have two scum groups and a town mason group again (I don't believe we have 3 scum groups, though I guess it's possible if each is 2 scum big, but I'd still say that would leave town exceptionally underpowered against them)

So, if it's 1 scum group, the leaves text becomes strange as I'm not sure where to attribute it, nor why (as I said, it sounds more voluntary as well). It also means Batt's comment cannot be anything but a cock up because 2 people were still destroyed last night

If it's multiple, then Batt would be in the know about whether one of those "destroyed" is scum or not. It would also therefore lead to each group having a killer in their Destroyer. I'm assuming once that's gone, they would be forced to use other roles to do the kills (which would explain the "leaves" flavour).

Whether it's 2 scum and 1 town with the groups or 3 straight scum groups, I'm unsure, though at the moment I favour the first. (Although with us losing a delayed tracker and a protector, I'm a little unsure if that would work, unless that's two of three of our PR's gone already)

Either way, I do think Batt likely made a slip there, and as much as I would have loved to catch Katscum, it would appear she's likely to be town .

unvote
vote: Batt

[PranaDevil]

Nero, are you suggesting then that the information posted is worthless? Because if that's the case then fair enough, but IIoA is kind of poor to suggest if said information is useful or relevant (in which, I personally, would say what I posted is, as it's not necessarily everyone that will have looked at things that way, but the way Glork did similar in previous SE games, and made me see things I hadn't necessarily seen previously)

[PranaDevil]

I'd say it points to perhaps there being two scum groups. (If you are town I mean) and thus the leaves flavour is through that scum's destroyer being killed.

[PranaDevil]

3 players "destroyed" night 1.

Day 2 we lynch a destroyer.

2 players "destroyed" night 2.

I'd say 3 - 1 = 2 personally.

[PranaDevil]

OH YEAH. ITS ALL FATES FAULTY. BIG BAD FATE.

YOU FUCKING CLOWNS WOULD'VE NEVER CAUGHT RECKAMONIC. I NAILED HALF THE SCUMTEAM.

COULDN'T CATCH CHRONO WITH FUCKIN SURVIVORS HAMMERING BATT AND MISLYNCH FODDER LIKE ZORDIAK TAKING XEMNAS CLAIMS AS REALCLAIMS.

FUCK THAT NOISE.

OH AND GUESS THE FUCK WHAT, CHRONO DIDN'T MAKE A LIST D2 DID HE?

IF EVERYONE HAD FUCKIN DONE AS I ASKED I WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO MISLYNCH MS, WHO DESERVED HIS LYNCH.


OH AND FUCK YOU KATSUKI. OBV SUUPERSAINT CLAIM IS OBV.

NO REVEAL IS TOWN FAVORED? WELL NEWS TO ME.

Shut the fuck up. Seriously. You helped town lose the fucking game. You lied the entire game, guiding town into focusing on you and your lie detector ability instead of scum hunting. You allowed scum to sheep you. Stop being a douche and blaming the town loss on everyone else.

[PranaDevil]

How foolish of me, I should realize that unless you play a perfect game you have to suck. Oh dear god's no!

Or perhaps after day 1 it became "the Fate show" which is exactly what happened. You either sheeped Fate or you got into a massive ridiculously fucking stupid argument with him because he would rather lie than scum hunt.

Also, by your own statement anyone who said I was scum in game cannot claim someone else stunk either (And if you argue against that, you effectively argue against your own statement, so have fun with that one).

[PranaDevil]

How foolish of me, I should realize that unless you play a perfect game you have to suck. Oh dear god's no!

Or perhaps after day 1 it became "the Fate show" which is exactly what happened. You either sheeped Fate or you got into a massive ridiculously fucking stupid argument with him because he would rather lie than scum hunt.

Also, by your own statement anyone who said I was scum in game cannot claim someone else stunk either (And if you argue against that, you effectively argue against your own statement, so have fun with that one).

Perfect example of why being a self-righteous prick doesn't pay. If you allow yourself to stop scum-hunting to mess around with a Fate gambit that's on you.

Your last part is also clearly wrong. Your reasoning was so bad I had to think you were scum. Now I know differently and can throw you in the pool of players who routinely make terrible arguments regardless of alignment.

Except you're talking bollocks here.

First off, "stopped scum hunting to mess around with a Fate gambit" because that was ALL that was going on, and Fate wouldn't shut the fuck up and, y'know, actually play the game, it meant nobody could do anything but deal with that.

Your second bit... yeah, total bollocks. So if someone calls you scum they're "clearly wrong" but if you call someone else scum "They're reasoning is bad". lols

[PranaDevil]

Of course it was, because all Chrono had to do was vote for Nero to win, fucksake. Any more statements of the bleeding obvious?

[PranaDevil]

HEY ALL OF YOU ATTACKING FATE FOR LYING AND SHIT LIKE THAT, HE DIDN'T FUCKING LIE. HE HAD AN ABILITY THAT WAS LIKE A LIE DETECTOR. DON'T BLAME THE LOST ON HIM. HE DID CATCH ONE SCUM WHILE EVERYONE ELSE WAS, "HURR DURR YOU BE SCUMZ DURR."

He lied.

Based on this are you suggesting a cop is "like a lie detector" now? As his role was closer to a cop than a lie detector.

[PranaDevil]

Fate caught scum with what was essentially a cop investigation. Anyone could have done that. The way he went about revealing that information was damaging to the town as a whole though.

[PranaDevil]

Katsuki, show me where I said I did great this game. I dares you. It doesn't change that Fate's actions on Day 2 changed the game considerably. Yes town as a whole played miserably, but Fate acting like he's some sort of god, and people tonguing his damned balls for how he "caught scum" is laughably stupid. He did a single night action and stuffed up everything afterwards.

Also Fate, you do realize your options weren't "say I'm a cop" and "lie about my role" right? You could have just pushed Reck hard. Claiming you're a lie detector when you weren't, and then demanding people post abso-fucking-lutely stupidly god damned anti-town lists that help scum figure things out more, and don't help town in the damned slightest was utterly fucking stupid play that harmed town. Even Chrono has admitted he used that information for his own gain. And what was it town gained? Ah yes, we lost.

[PranaDevil]

Well, set-up wise, the 3 person bodyguard really just meant it was more likely for them to get scuppered at some point. the 2 grave robbers didn't really "help" the town because not only were they (or was it just one?) hated, but it meant not all roles were revealed, meaning we were still down on that side. While the tracker and watcher were both only every other night. Throw in that when Batt went so did the rest of town's roles for that night and, yeah. It's definitely scum favoured with 3 kills. 2 would have been better. Especially as with 3 kills normally you expect there to be three seperate killing roles, rather than two guys (Or one later on) wiping out 3 players per night.

I understand why you did it flavour wise, but it definitely was scum favoured. Though Chrono still earnt it by being able to fly so far under the radar of pretty much everyone.

Knew I should have tried to convince Fate to help me policy lynch Chrono as revenge for SE III .