Road to Wrestlemania: Game over - WWF wins - BANG BANG!

[GMan]

@IS - And I don't really trust the "Too Town" theory.

I completely disagree with the opinion that it's impossible to get reads in this phase of the game.

What matters to me is whether or not I believe BS's altruism re: othters getting the belt is sincere, and I think it is. For that reason I have a town-read on her. However, while the belt most definitely should go to someone with a strong town read, that's not all that we should consider. We're basically deciding who to preserve for as long as possible.

- They should be pro-town.
- They should be a proactive scum hunter.
- They should not be known for making rash decisions (quick hammers etc)
- They should not be known for making mistakes in LyLo.

Also, should we maybe not consider candidates that have a history of playing excellently as scum and passing themselves off well as town?

[GMan]

Regal-Plex: Internet Stranger
Tiger Driver: Internet Stranger

[GMan]

Holy quoting, Repo Man!

[GMan]

Gratuitous Repo Man reference, Gobots.

[GMan]

@vezo: Are you suggesting this entire phase (i.e. Royal Rumble) is RVS. If so, I think that's wildly off base.

[GMan]

Regarding those treating the Rumble as an overelaborate RVS, while I can agree that reads will likely not be as strong as when we start with the actual shows, they're

still

there in my opinion. They may not be as significant but they still exist and I really think it's worth taking this stage of the game seriously, rather than dismissing it as an annoyance or a delay, from which nothing can be gained.

@jedi: I question the philosophy in #249 that by throwing people out you're doing your part in it's entirety. I don't know if contentless posts with two moves qualifies as making an effort. Sure, it's better than not posting at all, but let's not pretend like it's good posting.

#252 was very OMGUS. Why shouldn't VP continue to have his say even though he is eliminated?

You seem to be viewing this too much as a competition.

Bakatare Sliding Kick: Jediknight
Shiranui: Jediknight

[GMan]

Very much like post #334.

Jawbreaker Lariat: Trendall
Shining Wizard: Trendall

[GMan]

@DDD *sigh*. That's what happens when I post tired.

Flying Armbar: Gobots
Crucifix Bomb: Gobots

[GMan]

I don't understand/like bristep's willingness to give his votes to someone else.

Cobra Clutch: Scott Brosius
Dragon Suplex: Scott Brosius

[GMan]

Thor's explanation in #444 makes sense to me.

[GMan]

I'm guessing Vas' issue with me is simply that I'm new to Mafia Scum. He doesn't know me nor my meta so regardless of his read on me that's probably enough to put me below candidates such as DDD and KK.

Personally, I'm confident in my scum-hunting abilities and that I will be an asset to the Town but I'm not arrogant enough to insist you take my word for it. For that reason there are probably better choices for Champion; the guys with proven track records.

European Uppercut: Erratus Apathos
Texas Cloverleaf: Erratus Apathos

[GMan]

Fisherman Buster: VasudeVa

Never did confirm your reasoning for wanting me eliminated from Royal Rumble. Care to elaborate?

[GMan]

@sottyrulez: Agree about Thor's BS read. I think there's too much guessing about what BS would/wouldn't do as town/scum for my liking. It's pretty null in my opinion. I could buy null-leaning town, but "town tell with giant flashing neon letters" is taking it to extremes.

Missile Dropkick: Thor

Don't think I agree with the stance on Hoppster though. I don't think he was terribly over-aggressive in regards to chesskid. He said stuff that frankly didn't make much sense to me either and Hoppster questioned him on it.

@vas: My mistake was simple. I liked the whole idea of E-1 and E-3. Where I went wrong was placing others at E-1 myself rather than placing Gobots there and have him doing it. I was still contributing to the purpose of the plan but I got a little mixed up in how it was to be achieved. Some posts were merged in my mind, parts got left out. I think it's clear what I was trying to do and where I went wrong.

[GMan]

Sorry, I'm so behind right now guys. Will try to catch up asap

[GMan]

Re: Trendall - He says "Will be posting analysis some time within the next couple of hours." He doesn't post again for 3 days. When he does, it isn't so much analysis as it is a "I'm not mafia post" with one sentence on BS, and how he doesn't see the case on her. The rest of his posts appear to be of the OMGUS variety. Poking holes in the cases against them and poking fingers that those who are making them.

#774 he says those on his wagon are likely town. #845 he says some on the wagon are likely opportunistic scum (which is probably pointing out the obvious from a town perspective). I don't like how he needs to be prompted to say who these opportunists are. He was playing the odds game rather than trying to get reads on his wagon.

I find it most curious that he pointed to Thor, VPB and KK, jet makes no mention of jediknight who said nothing but "I agree with all that has been said and can add no more at this point." (#831)

Too much defensive and not enough offensive play from Trendall.

(cont)

[GMan]

Re: Scott Brosius - I get the wagon. I understand the wagon. I just think I'd ratherlynch scummy play because of what's been said than because of what

hasn't

been said. Not saying I don't find him scummy, there are just others I'd rather lynch.

Have to say #793 ("I mentioned Trendall as a slight scum read. Otherwise nothing has caught my eye.") is simply not good enough.

Re: SnakePlissken - You can pretty much copy/paste from the above. What's worse though is what sotty pointed out - Unopinionated pots shouldn't call unopinionated kettles black. He was right, regarding Trendall, but he was also a hypocrite.

[GMan]

(Had this ready to post last night but couldn't reply after myself.)

Re: jediknight - Mentioned it during the rumble, but didn't like his play in it, especially #249. I got a big "out for myself" vibe from him.

First real post of Raw is #761. He mentions a few reads, but there's nothing of substance in any of them. In fact he basically served up a couple of posts saying "Here's some null-reads of mine, let's policy lynch chesskid." Bad vibes.

In #770 he seems to spend more time mentioning other people's reads than those of his own.

I'm very wary of the fact he's made two votes and one has been a policy lynch proposal and the other he literally says "I agree with everything that's been said." This is after pretty much accusing me of the same thing in #831.

I feel he's mroe worthy of a day 2 wagon than SB right now

[GMan]

Lou Thesz Press: Trendall

Also regarding Gobots vote, what use exactly is it to start a completely fresh wagon that's only real purpose is to pressure a lurker this close to the deadline. Really? What exactly is the point of that?

[GMan]

@gobots: I felt those I beleived to be better lynches were inferred by my posts (e.g. Trendall, jediknight).

Re Jason: I think it was a pretty natural reaction to what IS said. Add in the rest of the post, he gives further reasons to why what IS said didn't make sense to him. Word twisting is a big stretch. In fact, if we're going to accuse anyone of Word twisting, here's what Jason

actually

said about Gobots:

"here [Gobots] says Trendall is not scummy, then says how can he even have a read on him, yet is voting Trendall.. "

"Then why is his vote STILL on you if he never once found you scummy?"

See the difference? He never once said "Gobots thinks Trendall is scummy." He was merely enquiring why Gobots would still have his vote (or had it in the first place) on Trendall if he didn't find him scummy.

So who's twisting who's words?

[GMan]

I question the prudence of a DDD name claim. While vezo appears well intentioned, his approach was very flawed, meaning his conclusion is very probably incorrect.

[GMan]

IS - Why is DDD off the hook (#1218) once you realised vezo could only find out his hometown (and assumed, apparently wrongly, that it was Daivari), despite finding his reaction to it scummy whether this was the case or not (#1194)?

I also hate the hypocrisy of calling Thor one of the most opportunistic scum ever (#892) when he was practically salivating over the prospect of lynching DDD (#1168, #1182) and pushing for claims before backtracking by letting DDD "off the hook".

Speaking of claims:

"I dont believe in claims." - IS

(#1089)

Canadian Maple Leaf: Internet Stranger

[GMan]

DDD - You want my opinion? Vas' case is baseless and I was trying my best to not entertain his intensive tunneling.

I've already responded to his "sucking up" accusation.

As for the OMGUS part - it's taking things out of context. My first vote on him was early day 1. It was a pressure vote to get him to finally saw why he wanted me eliminated from the rumble. Hardly OMGUS. What Trendall was doing was completely different. He was concentrating so hard on the people on his own wagon. He wasn't looking else where or scumhunting.

Vas even attacked me for saying a catchup was forthcoming while others were doing the same thing. The guy is tunneling on me hard and it's interesting the only other people biting are guys who have been getting heat.

[GMan]

DDD chooses tag champs? I thought the existing champs chose new ones (as well as IC).

[GMan]

Bristep: Stop putting so much into another person's gut and come up with your own reads. CK could be scum for all you know. Use him as an asset but don't follow him.

[GMan]

When did I agree with Thor?

[GMan]

While it is true that in games played offsite with Sottyrulez I have been typically proactive as town, it is also untrue that I typically lurk as scum. In fact, I once got caught by zachrulez for being far too aggressive. I think this meta on me is crap.

I will make an extra effort to try harder to keep up though. I have football tonight, but I'll post some reads when I get back.

[GMan]

Just to clarify once and for all - yes I was agreeing with Sottyrulez about Thor, not with Thor. My fault for not making that clear.

Some reads:

IS - I don't like the way he approached vezo vs DDD, and I think there are still some unanswered questions. I do, however, get a more genuine scum hunting vibe from him since.

Question to IS: I asked this once and I don't think I saw a direct response in his ISO (apologies if I missed it)

Why did you back off DDD, even though you didn't like his reaction to vezo at all?

[more]

[GMan]

EA - I think both IS's case on him and his defense (#1357) are exaggerations. EA seems to land somewhere in the middle. In his actual posts he did have some content and he did have opinions. I also don't think he was vote-swinging too badly either.

However, to claim he'd never lurked? I think at the time of the case being made if you only have 32 posts you could defintiely be more active than you have been so far (myself included). It doesn't necessarily mean you're scummy, but to compeltely deny it is a stretch.

I don't like the last line of his #1357. Just because some of the information is incorrect does not mean it wasn't legitimate scum-hunting. Also, the points IS made were about both EA and Empking. I'm sure he generalised on one or two. But I think they were all/mostly at least partially accurate I think.

Gut says null-leaning scum. I'm far from enamored with the case against him, but I don't find him townie either.

[I have more but I'm going to bed. Will continue tomorrow.]

[GMan]

Had this written last night:

jediknight - I remain unsatisfied with his #761 post and subsequent semantics over whether or not his vote on chesskid was a policy lynch proposal. Seems to me he was admitting so in #763 and then spent time trying to back out of that statement. If "putting a name" to something doesn't fit with what you're doing then you don't call it that, surely? And if you don't know what the name is you ask or look it up.

I don't understand his beef with VPB. Declaring town reads is one thing, but I don't see him attacking anyone or putting people down that don't agree with him. I just don't get the same impression you do, that he is calling people town and trying to get others to follow him.

Question to jediknight: Have any exmaples of "VP keeps proclaiming people town just cause he says so and seems to expects us to follow it"? With added emphasis on the latter part please.

Also: I don't understand why stating my opinion on the Thor thing is suspicious. Are you trying to say I somehow derailed the inquisition by adding my opinion? As if sottyrulez would decide not to further question Thor because I weighed in? I don't get it

[GMan]

GMan looks around quizzically at the other superstars after making a speech, earning him a roundhouse kick to the jaw!

[GMan]

Reply to sottyrulez #1545.

Vas: Town. While I think he was previously tunneling on me, I think it was town tunneling. My gut read is that he believes in his case and is trying to lynch scum.

VP: Town. I see logical approaches to wagons and cases. Gut read says he's trying to dissect arguments to find scum.

DDD: Unsure. Initially town but that has wavered. Not going to buy he's scum for a second based solely on vezo's investigation and find his reaction to be null or town - not scummy. However, his play lately could use more scum-reads and less town-reads I think; I expected better. I definitely find him less town than I did during the rumble and raw.

[GMan]

jediknight: Surely the statement

"VP keeps proclaiming people town just cause he says so and seems to expects us to follow it"

means you think what he's trying to do is lead the town by attempting to derail any wagons that might start on them right? Otherwise, why mention it, since stating town reads isn't scummy in itself.

What I was asking for were specific examples of this happening and what led you to believe VP was trying to get people to follow him. Not times when he called someone town.

Please respond to my second question about Me/Thor/Sottyrulez.

Also can you elaborate on the potential link between Sottyrulez and I?

Exploder: jediknight

Chesskid: What changed?


Furcolow: Surely the structure of one's posts are simply a drop in the ocean when it comes to analysing meta?

How do you act? How do you react? How active are you? How aggressive are you?

Can you tell me why your inability to use quotes stifles your ability to scumhunt?

As far as I can tell, the meta case refers to your apparent tendancy to lurk as scum. Does a lack of quote tags restrict your activity?

[GMan]

Lowell - My suspicion of jediknight goes back to Raw and if you can't follow that, then too bad.

[GMan]

All I see Empking write is meaningless text. Try actually saying something.

[GMan]

God, I hate having to claim. Especially when my wagon is as easy/lazy as this one seems to be. But it's better that I do, so...

I am

Eddie Guerrero

. Latino Heat. Who needs my Mamacita when I have a

One-Shot Vigilante

night ability?

[GMan]

I felt my alignment was beyond implicit, but if you need it in black and white:

I am part of the WWF. I win once all factions attempting to take the WWF for themselves are no more (assuming there's one of us still left standing.)

My injure method is getting run down by my Chevy.

[GMan]

sottyrulez: How was my claim premature? I was L-2, it was pretty clear that I was going to be the deadline lynch of choice over IS. With deadline approaching I think the best thing to do was claim once that point had been reached, to save as much time as possible for alternative bandwagons to form and reach a lynch.

What did you want me to do? Wait till the very last second to claim and hope I didn't get quick hammered before then? Not claim at all and swallow my lynch, knowing I had an unused vig kill in my hands? Or try to stay alive, get a shot at lynching and then killing scum?

Some of your reasons for finding me suspicious seem very contrived. Like that meta. You know, the meta I countered and was never mentioned by you again? If you really felt that was correct why did you not pursue that further? Instead, you let me have the last say.

[post]

[GMan]

Question to SR: You had a scum-read on Jason but let-off when his posting picked up? Why then, keep the vote on me? Between the vote and my claim, there is no analysis of my posts to suggest you found their contents scummy. Yet you still wanted to lynch me.


On bristep: I think the biggest issue is that he voted seemingly not based off his own suspicions, but chesskid's. It was like he was trying to avoid giving his opinion and putting the responsibility of his vote onto chesskid's shoulders. Having said that, I don't find much else of his play particularly scummy.

[GMan]

I targeted Furc last night. I really didn't like his response regarding his meta and how the post restrictions in this game prevented him from scumhunting. I would have targeted jedi, but I wanted to give him a chance to give further information about his claim.

@DDD: What facts are these that disassociates you with 123 Kid?

@Lowell: VP's question is still unanswered. Answers on a postcard, please.

@IS: Speaking of unanswered questions.

Also, I don't like IS's gloating in #1861


Finally, I don't think we should be ruling out scum suspects based on buddy reasons quite yet. A) It's early. B) Bussing happens. C) In a game this size I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one faction (as our PMs suggest). If we see a link between two people, fine. But let's not excuse scuminess because a link seems unlikely.

[GMan]

Who the hell's to say you definitely would? We don't know the conditions that prevented my kill.

[GMan]

Furc appears to be limiting the possible options of what happened in the night to suit his argument. It's especially intriguing given the speculation of non-doc protect scenarios.

I don't think there's much in the tag-title part of KK's case on Sottyrulez, but their apparent change of mind on Empking is much stronger. Particularly why they chose not to pursue bristep instead when the wagons were fairly even after having said Empking was null. It's seems consistent with bussing.

AV: I assume I don't get a second chance. I "shot", despite not killing.

[GMan]

@BS: After going through some ISO's, you surely found soemthing else to comment on?

@Gobots: I was your top suspect before I claimed. Why do you beleive my claim?

@Lowell: Point me to my "I was blocked" argument.

@ScottB: Why have you done nothing but go with the flow for the entire game?

@furc: Stop beating around the bush and say what you have to say.

Also @furc: What did KK use that wasn't based on public knowledge?

BRAINBUSTAAAAAHHHHH!: furcolow

[GMan]

@IS: Why am I suddenly scum for following through on my furc suspicions?

@furc: What I claimed is all there is to know. No additional flavour other than that.