Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

it's my favorite for the music

[popsofctown]

dude tycoon games suck

[popsofctown]

have you played the mcdonalds tycoon flash game? idk what its called

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Comet blitzen donner cupid

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Dancer prancer vixen

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tbh the only reason anyone can name the reindeer is cause its in the intro to the rudolph song

[popsofctown]

But rudolph isn't a "canon" reindeer. He's just a poser

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Well actually I think I memorized Weird Al Yankovich's "the night santa went crazy" from hearing it so much

[popsofctown]

and all the reindeer are in there at different points

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Down in the workshop, all the elves are makin toys,
For the good gentile girls, and the good gentile boys,

[popsofctown]

When the boss busted in,
He nearly scared em half to death,

[popsofctown]

He had a rifle in his hand,
And cheap whiskey on his breath

[popsofctown]

From his beard to his boots,
He was covered in ammo,
Like a big fat drunk, disgruntled, yuletide rambo

[popsofctown]

Dangit i didnt spam fast enough

[popsofctown]

Yay! I win.

[popsofctown]

Oh indeed, I barely managed to spam past Darla's marker before she became aware of this thread

[popsofctown]

Checked her last post to make sure she wasn't bluffing.

Sorry for continuing to make every sentence a post after it didn't matter. It became a habit.

[popsofctown]

waste of time

[popsofctown]

Parama is ridiculously overconfident with his reads right now. I don't think he was trying to force false logic.

[popsofctown]

You guys shoot whoever you want. I can't find scum in this game and I just give up. Well I can't totally give up, I've got a duty to play to my wincon, but I am going to take a break. I've read too many players wrong this game, I need some time to develop a new angle on this game. Or more information.

[popsofctown]

I've been rather hesitant about the tmh lynch thus far, but pending that flip I'm quite all in now.

[popsofctown]

I seriously thought that was IAI.

Please change your avatar. If I get you one will you use it?

[popsofctown]

That wasn't even a hard read, at all.

I want blood.

[popsofctown]

Yes, exactly. You, AS A GROUP, SELECT SOMEONE to kill.

If i'm counted out there are 17 players. 6/17 does not equal .5 at all.

If you flip town I'm not gonna feel bad about losing this game at all. Can't be expected to carry players like this.

[popsofctown]

Uh...

daykills are still protown, bad as things are

[popsofctown]

You're sure he's scum, yet his flip yields information?

Interesting.

[popsofctown]

And how does that help us make our next lynch any more accurate?

[popsofctown]

Normal flips help because you at first thought someone scum, but then afterwards you KNOW they are scum.

You're acting like you know tmh is scum, but simply dont know if there are multiple scumteams. This is not the normal case you are making it out to be.

[popsofctown]

Exactly why I would argue we should assume he's scum and wait for his ability to change hands, then lynch him tomorrow, after diddin passes him that infernal antitown ability.

[popsofctown]

If anyone but one of these three players gets lynched, I am breaking my own rule and replacing out.

If you're not here to respect your commitment and play to your wincon, leave now. I don't want to play with someone like you.

[popsofctown]

Uh...

daykills are still protown, bad as things are

actually, daykills/gunsmith style (getting a gun) is actually VERY null for me
however, the manner in which he went about it was scummy

You misinterpreted this post. I meant, "having a daykill in play is good for the town", not "the act of daykilling suggests that that daykiller is town aligned"

Also if we have to go through with the Virus mess again this game will become especially unpleasant.

Agreed. If the virus shows up tomorrow I will become unhappy and angry.




@bringing grief to the mod's eyes by saying I'm not enjoying the game: I like to excel in the games I play, I like winning, and I like my own good play to be the reason I'm winning. I'm not playing a good game of mafia this game, and I'm losing, and I'm not happy about that. I don't see why the mod should be offended by that, it's quite strictly internal. Furthermore, I felt it necessary to explain my emotional reaction to the game for others to properly interpret my play, so I'm not going to sacrifice clarity like that just to spare the mod's feelings. I don't think I'm doing anyone any harm or disrespect here, in contrast with Precision Mafia where I was a royal ****.



After throwing out my previous model for the game, Vi's looks a lot better. I mean, I know I'm on the scumlist, and that's not right, but, "scum are picking off VIs and lol'ing" seems like a more accurate model for what I've seen so far than "newbscum are blatantly obvious across this thread".

Vote: LynchMePls

LynchMePls has been giving pithy, direct arguments for a lot of wagons like DBE's. Which, when I thought these were accurate wagons, was fine. Now it seems more like he didn't want to expound on his reasoning because it was a mislynch, and it's better to give less material for alignment reading.

This same stuff can be thrown back at me, and I've definitely been a hard pusher for two of the mislynches in this game, but I feel I've been a lot more transparent than LMP. He doesn't seem to want to let me get a read on him. I mean he even just quoted posts of DBE's and said "Self explanatory vote with me", to what further lengths could you go to avoid readability? It's like some sort of active-lurk-wagonning.

He's in R mafia game voting 4 R townies

[popsofctown]

1457 was also unnecessarily defensive imo

[popsofctown]

*RedCoyote - The second-biggest active lurker in the game. There was one time when he said something that made me consider that he might be looking from a pro-Town motivation, but most of his posts are just walls that don't go anywhere, don't do anything, and uphold the status quo.

Oh, please. You know as much as anyone that I do not have the opportunity to log onto MS numerous times over the course of the day. Very often my posts happen late at night after normal people in the western world has went to sleep. If I had a nickel for everytime someone tried to push this lame activity argument on me, I'd be retired on a beach in the Cayman Islands. I like how my posts don't go anywhere yet I very nearly had theman lynched yesterday, I began the wagon to get Helghast shot yesterday, and I was one of the only people to stand in the way of implosion and diddin running roughshod over the town today. I mean, compared with Lateralus, SC, LynchMePls, and ckd,

I'm

the lurker? You're really missing the bigger picture here. Unfortunately I can't claim that my reads have really helped the town progress so far, but I've undoubtedly had a lot of influence here. I'd argue that I've been one of the top three most influential players in this game.

I don't think Vi is criticizing your post count, but rather how much you're really saying in each of your posts.

The virus may get unleashed everyday. With or without a day vig. I suggest we keep the dayvig for one more day and get rid of TMH and the Treestump once and for all D3.

Ugh. We do need to get rid of the treestump. I guess you're actually right, the good thing is for the virus to come back tomorrow. And your proposed procedure for handling the virus is no worse than a lynch, so I guess it'd be an ok thing for the virus and daykill to come back tomorrow.

TMH should have shot ckd though. Goooosh. *sigh*.

We probably need to build a pretty strong consensus on what kind of person we'd like to kill along with the treestump tomorrow. I don't want ckd to pass the treestump to someone he think is scummy, and then, whether he's right or wrong, us not having a consensus that that dude is scum.


@hypocrisy as a scumtell- it's not. Empirically I see it as much from townies as scum if not more. Logically, it's not wrong to be hypocritical. LynchMePls is more likely to be scum because he lynched town a lot this game. So did I, but it doesn't matter, if you look at games scum are more likely to be on mislynches. I have a proof positive example of an exception, sure, but one exception doesn't disprove the rule when it's a correlation rather than a hard law.

If anything, scum would be less likely to bring up scumtells they are guilty of because it reminds people and could lead to their lynch, while townies care less if they can kill a scum with their hypocritical reasoning.


@Vi hasn't read the game therefore has no opinion- What kind of total bullcrap is that? Every single post someone makes has evidence of alignment in it. You dont need the whole thread to get an accurate read. This makes no sense. Have you guys heard that in myth and legend, people actually lynch scum on day one with just a few pages of posts? Well they tried it on myth busters and the dummy asphyxiated and myth confirmed, it happens. You don't need a thesis' worth of posting from someone to make a read, and I'd be more than willing to bet that variance between player ability can cause drastic differences in amount of material needed.

[popsofctown]

A Wizard Did It.

[popsofctown]

I caused StrangerCoug to have the virus. That may or may not be the same way Parama came to acquire the virus day 1. The virus may or may not be able to appear tomorrow.

I haven't divulged much info about this, and won't until I see why this info satisfies the Need To Know rule for the town. From my viewpoint extra info disclosure regarding this helps scum more than town, but if you can show that's not the case I'll gladly tell more.

[popsofctown]

Im on Vi's town list, I think im doing something wrong

[popsofctown]

Wait, what? Why?

[popsofctown]

Yes, by covering your name with a sticker and reading the player list

[popsofctown]

No, wrong, help me hang lmp

[popsofctown]

theman has exhibitted the sort of anti-town play that i just dont expect to flip scum. It'd probably be hard to convince anyone else of this. The Parama shot doesn't make sense as town, scum, or jester to me, so I'm not sure I should count it.

[popsofctown]

I see what you did thar

[popsofctown]

Compromise is where I ask you to vote LMP, then you do it. Compromise.

[popsofctown]

WELCOME DRIPPINGGOOFBALL!!!!!!!

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote quadz

You owe me an internet.

[popsofctown]

[/color="blue"] Easy Target

[/color]

Have I mentioned I hate this terminology?

[popsofctown]

I'm not telling you to use the v word. I'm telling you not to use "easy target". I find it nonsensical.

[popsofctown]

You can't be sure TMH is mafia unless you are mafia.

[popsofctown]

you shouldnt ever be over 50% sure of a mafia read, ever

[popsofctown]

you shouldnt ever be over 50% sure of a mafia read, ever

Never???

Not even in LyLo, 2 Townie vs 1 Scum. You know you are town. 2 other players..... 1 has to be mafia....I guess at this point one should only be exactly 50% sure with both reads.

Never say never scum. What's wrong, am I getting too close for comfort on the q21/TMH connection? You seem to be trying hard to discredit me, I am glad this is all on record.

I didn't think about that, ok, whatever. My point is, you shouldn't put too much faith in the human component of scumhunting. Finding scum once doesn't refute that, at all.

[popsofctown]

I didn't think about that, ok, whatever. My point is, you shouldn't put too much faith in the human component of scumhunting. Finding scum once doesn't refute that, at all.

Diddin, want to tell him about the game where I called Derby Bolts scum by page 3/4? Yep scum.

So does finding scum twice refute that?

Oh wait, there was the game where I was all over Doctor D1, he was scum.

Another game where I played with Deer and we nailed another scum D1.

How about 4 times, in 7 games as townie? Now do I get some cred?

You need to total the times you've accused someone of being scum, and the number of times that accused person has been scum, then find X/Y.

[popsofctown]

fuck, I missed getting my night choice in to pass.....asking mod what happened to it cause I dont have it.

I have to check if there was even something that I could pass on, how can I tell?

*headdesk*

Night one I passed an ability to lateralus/dgb.

[popsofctown]

Oh, and I was vanilla during Day 2

[popsofctown]

How many abilities did you have last night DGB?

[popsofctown]

Hey DGB, wanna answer me?

[popsofctown]

DGB, how many cycling powers were under your control last night? If you don't know, ask the mod.

[popsofctown]

One or two? Three is unlikely.

[popsofctown]

How many people, on night one, cycled an ability to your slot? Just me, or someone else as well?

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote LMP

[popsofctown]

First

[popsofctown]

I think it's possible there's no scum kill.

[popsofctown]

Eh, no, looking back the shotgun is mafia kill flavor. They killed MoI, conf town diddin, and no one last night. Pretty clearly scum motivated.

When Day 4 happens we should do the following in order:
1) Everyone in their first post state who they sent an ability to Night 2
2) Once everyone has completed step #1, then everyone come forward on whether they had a power role Day 3 or not.

I am innocent says this. makes sense. I will reaffirm my claim that I was vanilla night 2 to encourage everyone else to claim #1.


Be careful not to confuse which night you're reporting. Not just last night, and not the first night of the game, night 2.

[popsofctown]

I need an answer to this question ASAP, Pops, did you Purge ChkFlp N1 or not.

Neauxpe.

I had a power night 3.

^^ lynch this guy, he won't even read claiming procedure carefully.

[popsofctown]

It's in play. Let's decide who we want to dayvig, AND who we want to lynch.

It doesn't work like that.
The dayvig ability requires the Virus. I don't see a Virus around. The dayvig ability, if it is in the game, is presently useless.

But more importantly, consider the following.

*themanhimself claimed to have sent the Dayvig ability to RedCoyote (scum). Since RedCoyote got vigged that same Night, it would have gone to the Void if this story is true.
*themanhimself flipped scum, which (aside from making him untrustworthy in general) means that he could not have passed the Dayvig to RedCoyote in the first place.
*This means that one of two things happened - either he passed it to the other kill target (which the scum had the advantage of knowing ahead of time), or it was passed to a living Townie.
*There was no counterclaim from any Townie when themanhimself said the ability passed into the Void (and themanhimself would have to be stupid to claim he sent an ability to the Void when someone could counterclaim).
*Therefore the Dayvig ability SHOULD be in the Void.

*Moreover, we can assume that the scum WANTED the Dayvig passed to the Void, given the claim and what most likely happened.
*With that in mind, if the scum had the chance to make it so that the Dayvig could return to the game, they would pass it up - they wanted it out of the game for a reason.
*That scum motivation PLUS the contradiction of what we know should be true leads to my conclusion that

WrathChild is scum lying about the Dayvig not being in the Void.

*This line of thought ALSO leads to a conclusion that whoever currently has the Void Collector ability was the kill target last Night.

Oh right, before I forget. Saint had an ability to pass last Night.

Posting in an epic thread.

Vote: WrathChild

[popsofctown]

Saint, I don't think the mod can answer that unless you've held the role at some point.

To the best of the town's collective knowledge the answer is yes.

[popsofctown]

somehow or other the retraction post got a "marked as read" sticker in my brain without ever getting read, and I never read it until much later. Saint's name is all over the page, it happens.

unvote

It seemed really irontight at the time.

[popsofctown]

this town. It has too much claiming in it.

[popsofctown]

Pops, why no answer?

I did answer.

Apologies to WrathChild go here. I see no reason not to believe that the Daykill needs the Virus to work, though. If everyone has posted Today (and I'm too lazy to check) then the Virus should be beach-ball bouncing around right now if it's present at all. If that's not happening, passing abilities is always good if nothing else. Where the Virus went is a pointed question for [/i][/color]

popsofctown

The virus could be bouncing within the scumteam, ever so silently. But either way, it's clearly not going to explode today, so the dayvig, if it's truly dependent, is useless.

[popsofctown]

Quotetag fail Those are Saintvi's words I responded to.

[popsofctown]

Pops, why no answer?

I did answer.

I just looked and can't find it. Thanks for wasting my time.

vote: Popsofctown

I need an answer to this question ASAP, Pops, did you Purge ChkFlp N1 or not.

Neauxpe.

As my momma always says, Did you really look, or did you just want me to find it for you?

It's clear that he passed SOMETHING to Goofball, but according to IAI (who has presumably been keeping better track of the unnecessarily shady things unnecessarily shady people have said) it wasn't the daykill.

Amazing how he's only posted fewer than 50 posts since DarlaBlueEyes died D2 though.

I've never had an ability that would let me daykill this game. The ability I passed to DGB was more innocuous than that. If you consider virus infectioneering more innocuous, which I would.

The DBE flip made me less confident of my reads, leading to less posting. Be less amazed. *shrug*

FTR, I haven't purged, shotgunned, or tickled anyone this entire game.

As for speculation about where the virus is: two possibilities for where it is right now, it's not here, or it's bouncing between two scumbuddies. If the person with the power of infection attempted to infect someone, yes, they'd know that was going on. But it's always possible they were roleblocked. Still, it'd be best if they claimed the tragedy. And I think I wouldn't have to tell them that, if they tried to put the virus in play and it didn't turn up I think they'd say so. Therefore, I very much doubt it's in play right now.


I don't see unnecessarily divulging info as protown. People who can specifically explain to me why any particular piece of info is protown will receive a cheerful answer. People who are just reaaally reaaally curious don't have a good reason, and for all I know may be scum who want to abuse the info.

Since everyone is sooo distraught over the virus not being in play, I'll say that my night one power isn't something that would necessarily attempt to infect someone every night. It's perfectly normal for the virus not to be in play right now, and it doesn't at all imply that the holder was roleblocked.

[popsofctown]

Sorry for the triple post, but I have some specific questions about the virus creating ability for pops.

1) Is this ability standard, or nonstandard?
2) If the virus creating ability is not in the void or destroyed (we would know if it were destroyed), does the Virus necessarily need to be given to someone, or not?

missed this.

The ability I had day 1 was standard, I don't see that as very harmful info.

And I incidentally answered 2). The answer to 2 is no.

[popsofctown]

Pops, why no answer?

I did answer.

I just looked and can't find it. Thanks for wasting my time.

vote: Popsofctown

I need an answer to this question ASAP, Pops, did you Purge ChkFlp N1 or not.

Neauxpe.

As my momma always says, Did you really look, or did you just want me to find it for you?

Once again, did you Purge

NERO CAIN N3

or not?

FTR, I haven't purged, shotgunned, or tickled anyone this entire game.

[popsofctown]

Let's go the other way with this. Why would scum get any special knowledge (that they may not already have) from learning what you know about the Virus?
2) I already have specifically explained why this particular piece of information is pro-Town. In addition to it completing Town's knowledge of how the daykill works, there's a noticeable credibility gap on your end, and we're ALL tired of getting toyed with.
3) If the ability is standard as you claim and you had it D1, then two to three other people should have it and there's no reason for us to rely on you alone as our pipeline to Virus information. Yet nobody else has claimed it. Therefore the ability was either passed to the Void N1 - which a number of people can attest didn't happen - or scum got it at least once, or there's something about the ability you're not mentioning, or both of the previous two. In that case, your argument for not divulging the information evaporates.

This would be the part where I vote pops but I'd much rather wait to see what the verdict is on G00fball.

Cut by IAI - Yes, that.[/i][/color]

1. I would have to fullclaim to explain why a fullclaim would give scum info that it's better they not have.

2. What do you mean by "completing Town's knowledge of how the daykill works"? Yes, revelation of info leads to knowledge, how is that knowledge going to lead to an ability to make decisions that keep townies alive and make scums dead?

As for the "credibility gap nonsense", it sounds you're just going to threaten my lynch until I fullclaim to sate your curiosity, simply because you think I'm lying, solely on the basis that I'm amongst the legions of players who cheerfully share theme game role info because it's fun and fascinating, so I therefore must be scum, who expects to conceal the true, evil nature of a role that has been in two other player's hands by now
Why don't you ask DGB this stuff? It's on the record that I cycled the ability I used to infect StrangerCoug to her. And knowing my own meta and DGB's, why would you think I'm more likely to fullclaim the power role than she is?

3. It's not necessarily true that scum have seen the role this game. As I said ages ago, it's perfectly normal for the role not to be infecting people on a daily basis. Yes, there are things about the role I'm not mentioning.

[popsofctown]

That post of IAI's shows me passing the only power I had to DGB, so in my mind it was on the record. My understanding of the question mark out in the front was that it was marking the line as a point of confusion because it's unclear exactly what happened to it

after

that pass. (DGB had two powers day 2, did she pass the one she got from me to LMP? No one knows, including me. Did she pass it to LMP on a random basis since she said that she failed to send in a cycling choice at some point?)

Once again, you can only be vague about the benefits of the role info, and there's a reason for that. And your example is pretty crappy. How did diddin's fullclaim help the town, pray tell? Diddin confirmed that he wasn't one-shot, so TMH grabbed diddin's powerrole with his scummy hands, then shot a doctor in broad daylight, all when TMH probably would have gotten lynched eventually anyway. If Diddin had just said, "I have a power. I can kill people with it, some number of times", then the scum would have been much more likely to kill diddin instead, which would have been a better outcome.

And sorry, I didn't know what "credibility gap" means so I googled it and the best of my understanding was that it meant lying. Maybe I'll try wikipedia next time.

[popsofctown]

[/notsarcasm]

[popsofctown]

DGB, that's already been claimed for pages. I targetted Stranger Coug with that ability. I claimed that once Coug said he had become infected with the virus D2.

[popsofctown]

it seemed like 2 free lynches at the time, but I know in hindsight that won't seem like great play to you

[popsofctown]

Originally I wasn't going to claim it at all. Unfortunately I forgot who I had targetted, thinking I had targetted MoI who I had at first planned on targetting, so I started getting very confused, and asked to see the virus because I wanted to check if it was the same virus, because if it was that would imply a bus driver (if I had targetted MoI) and an implied bus driver would be something I would want everyone to know about. Eventually I remembered changing my mind and targetting SC rather than MoI, but by then my behavior looked very bizarre. I didn't want my memory lapse creating any false conclusions at a later point in the game, about my alignment or anything else, so I explained what had happened. But withheld other information about the role, which apparently ticks people off.

DGB, from your perspective you should be 100% certain that I infected SC with the virus, so I don't see why you're acting the way you are.

[popsofctown]

If everyone has claimed not to have done the night 1 purge, that means scum did the night 1 purge.

Then, the ability to purge was cycled to DGB, from a mysterious person. It would have to be one of the people who claimed not to have an ability D1, because the mod has said no one started with 2 abilities.

The would make DGB conf-town, and mean that there is scum somewhere in the pool of people who claimed no ability. (though that might be RC, iirc he claimed no ability n1, or even if he did that could be it right there)

[popsofctown]

I looked back through the thread some, I'm thinking either Saint or q21 is scum.

I have class more on that later. I just really want to kick some sand at the two of them so I can figure out which of them it is.

I'll reread their Isos later too.

[popsofctown]

For Pops, did you have to send the virus to a player D2, or was that optional?

Optional. As I've said, at the time I thought it meant two lynches, partly because I had never seen the virus pm and thought that spam could be abused to kill people with it. I couldn't anticipate a scum player having the ability to forcibly take the dayvig, or anticipate the virus working in a way that means that muh was really, really dumb.

And I sent the virus n1, not d2. Six of one half a dozen of the other though.

The other players didn't have to send a virus either, of course.

I want everyone on record on whether or not they purged chkflip N1 so I can draw some conclusions

[popsofctown]

Didn't purge N1: IAI, pops, q21, nhammen,
Had no power Day 1: Strangercoug, ckd, wrath, lmp, bunnylover

I don't know either way on these people: DGB, Saint

[popsofctown]

nvm, DGB had no role. Was it Saint?

[popsofctown]

Vi seems to imply that Saint didn't purge N1, but since the slot is hydra I want a cut and dry claim.

[popsofctown]

Saaaaaaint pooooooost

[popsofctown]

pops, you're rapidly rising on the short list of people I have to stop myself from flaming. I just got in, and really SHOULDN'T be posting right now.

Saint did have a role at the beginning of the game, but it wasn't the Purge. You should be able to see this PLAIN AS DAY from the cycling chart, and since you're running on the assumption that nobody started with two abilities, I can only assume you're being thick.

I find that rather uncharitable of you, I really just missed it. I was using a much older post of IAI's to try to determine who could possibly have purged because it listed whether or not people had a D1 ability. After that I ISO'ed Saint's recent posts. I didn't think to check the cycling record, but should have. If you want to prove I'm fallible, it will be an easy point to prove.

IAI has missed my claims of not purging once or twice now, but I don't feel like flaming him, nor do you seem to want to do so on my behalf. Can't you grant me the same patience I've granted him?

I was referring to diddin revealing that the daykill required the Virus to work. Seriously.
If scum COULD take a daykilling ability, they wouldn't need more information for it to be a good idea.

Describing that the daykill required the virus to work heavily suggests it's not one shot, just off of design-mod-wifom. And they would certainly need to confirm that a daykill wasn't one shot before they grabbed it. Diddin said that the daykill had to be public iirc, so the power had a lot of accountability involved, so it's not necessarily something you'd steal based only on the inkling that it has more than one shot. Busdriver-cycling other players in the dark has the potential to grab an investigative role and subsequently send it to the void, or any number of other bright possibilities. Taking the second-lynch power simply gives the holder the option of killing a townie once the player thinks he's going to die anyway, which is basically what tmh did have to do after D2's day game.

While it is possible for someone to have not claimed a Purge N1, and therefore make it POSSIBLE that Goofball is Town, there are a number of things stacked against you.
*The game started with an odd number of players (25). Given that this game was designed pre-13-player-Minis, having an odd number of players is indicative of balancing for a single (or odd number of) extra killing element(s).
*Nobody has claimed a Purge N1, but nobody has claimed a Purge N3 either. chkflip was an -obvious- attempt to hit scum; Nero Cain wasn't quite so obvious but still likely an attempt to hit scum, so we can assume with reasonable security that a Townie was behind at least ONE of those hits.
*The difference between Goofball being confirmed Town and confirmed SK is whether someone comes and speaks up about the existence of a Purging element. It's -entirely safe- to do so at this point, because the ability has already cycled away. Any Townie is therefore OBLIGATED to corroborate her story.
*nhammen has already pointed out that the chkflip Purge was not claimed by anyone who has died so far. Ergo, the chkflip Purger is still alive.
*Goofball "forgot" to send in an cycle and doesn't know where it went, yet clearly read enough to know she had a kill and how to use it? That's actually LESS likely than tmh's story, and actually worse than ckd's..

Ok, ok, there's some things I didn't consider carefully enough.

And the best part is, we've been over almost all of that already.
What's frustrating is that having played with you before, I'm not sure it's abnormal for you to be this dense.

I think I may have won a game or two off the back of "pops is too stupid to be scum", so I guess I might as well not object to this.

No, that means I didn't have anything relating to a virus, ever.

Also, have some abilities disappeared that shouldn't have?

That's unpossible. That directly contradicts my modinfo for this game. Do you have any explanation for this inconsistency?

Imma go reread my pms for a third time.

-cut-

DGB you should have had more than two subroutines I don't know why you're saying you only had two. If you're not lying, the role is changing in some bastardly unfathomable way.

I only had one ability night one. It's the one I used to infect Stranger Coug with malaria, and it's the same one I passed to DGB. I don't know what's going on.

[popsofctown]

Post 2104 precedes post 2108, IAI.



DGB, yes the subroutines are supposed to change, but they should increase and increase as the game goes on, logically. You're reporting FEWER than I had, earlier in the game. Either you're lying or I feel rather misled by the modding. Technically he never lied but it doesn't seem kosher.

[popsofctown]

Dude don't say stuff like that, IAI and his bouncers will take you down.

[popsofctown]

DGB, yes the subroutines are supposed to change, but they should increase and increase as the game goes on, logically. You're reporting FEWER than I had, earlier in the game. Either you're lying or I feel rather misled by the modding. Technically he never lied but it doesn't seem kosher.

If abilities can be taken out of the pool of "out-of-play" abilities, it would account of this effect. I swear, there were only the two.

Ok, I've been thinking about this ever since the mod told me I could you removed-from-game abilities, and now that speculation makes me HAVE to post this.


I can't think of any probable role that would actually do that. Large numbers of roles are missing, by my reckoning you should have had FIVE night 2. You're claiming two.

[popsofctown]

EBWOP, mod told me i could use

[popsofctown]

No. I had 3 abilities. Logically, you should have had five, all the ones I had, plus Ability remover from when chkflip died and Doctor from when Parama died. Yet you claim 2.

[popsofctown]

Agree with Vi, it doesn't make sense for DGB to lie about the Removed-from-game JOAT, but it does make sense for her to lie about the purge, and nothing she's done today has alleviated concerns related to that.

Vote: DGB

[popsofctown]

they aren't launched back into the game, the way the void thing sounds like it works. You use them from outside the game. Cept the virus which seems like a passive thing gets converted into more like a virus launcher where you pick someone to infect. That's why I tried to conceal the role for a while, tree stump might work the same way.

[popsofctown]

There's 3 zones, in play, in the void, and removed from gameplay. The third zone is such a great name for stuff that one of the roles in the game can still interact with, mirite? The role I had day 1 can use one power from the removed from gameplay zone . It doesn't put it back into play, you just use it, you investigate someone, or jailkeep someone, or what have you.

Passive abilities get awkwardly converted into some active form so that they'll fit the mold. The virus ability was turned into an active of "oh you infect someone with the virus", which is different than what parama started D1 with. Double voting was just straight up, "hey, if you use me, you can double vote tomorrow". Double vote was secret and rather ominous and could very much evilhammer so DGB gets (not enough) town points for not picking it.

[popsofctown]

DGB has either lied too much to live, or hasn't. It seems like a rather binary thing to me atm. On the basis of her play it's not that scummy of a slot (though I gotta admit D1 sk lateralus looks so pieces-in-place), but lying about role info/having an irreconcilable story trumps all else because it's linked to mod info. I'm not saying we're absolutely lynching DGB today, because her play has been so bizarre that her producing a straight story out of nowhere wouldn't surprise me, but people who want to lynch non-DGBs need to explain to me how DGB purged someone N2 with a power no one wants to claim having ever held.

[popsofctown]

The role you sent to me N2 that I passed on N3 is another one that I think we should out. Not sure I should take my information to the grave, you know? What are your thought on this role being outted?

Yeah. Definitely a role that should be outed. It's a tracker. I didn't get anything useful out of it. Forgot to mention, other reason that I figure it's a good idea to massclaim roles is that if you think about it, each role only needs to be in mafia hands once for the whole mafia team to learn about it. On the other hand, when a role goes to a townie, only that townie learns about it. So massclaiming essentially gives us information about the setup that the mafia will likely already have known.

From the perspective of a townie holding a useful pro town ability, s|he wouldn't expect that a scum player has ever held that ability, because it's not in the void. Something to consider.

[popsofctown]

I wouldn't mind if DGB is SK either, as she'd be motivated to target scum, at this point. My concern is that she has an entire faction. Does the flavor really rule out two scumteams? Why does everyone seem to think that's impossible? RC seemed overly conscientious of the possibility of two, which may be related to his pms or scumteam size.
And claiming the Nero Cain shot makes more sense as part of a scumteam than as SK. And SK would know that marks her for death later in the game, so claiming the kill can almost never lead to victory. It will come out later that the purge wasn't a cycle power, and if she behaves she might survive until 5 players or so, but then she'll get lynched. As part of a scumteam, though, temporary lynch immunity by virtue of "vigilante" status could be enough to swing her faction up to enough numerical advantage to win before it matters that she lied.

Given that Goofball is an SK (or even just a permanent Vigilante who lies and quickhammers, so it's pretty much the same thing)

I lol'ed.

I tracked StrangerCoug, and he didn't go anywhere that night.

implosion - should I claim my day 1 role... I get the impression that that's the role you're suggesting is kept quiet.

Yeah, it is.

I see no reason we can't wait a day or so to claim it though. It's really not going to help out the town to know about it. It's pretty useful if you use it as an investigative role, but we can wait until someone finds scum with it before we claim it. Don't you think?

And it's,
Reinitialize [Ability Reuse]

The game started with me getting a pm saying I was vanilla and wouldn't have to cycle anything. Then some time after AntB's modkill I got a pm saying, oh shizz im gonna be late to class.

got told i had ability after antb's modkill cuz then wasnt empty

watcher/virus first pm

watcher/doublevote/virus second pm, thatnightwhatihadtochoosefrom

[popsofctown]

bunnylover openly wagonned quadz, a townie, in an rvs style vote
bunnylover quickhammered powerrox, a townie, then his defense was "if you want to attack me for that, fine"
he also appears to have more knowledge of the setup than anyone I've seen yet, while having the grammar of the uneducated.

Anti-town voting + unexplainable knowledge = scum

vote: bunnylover

lol I'm sorry, I suck at grammar :<.
I didn't quickhammered anyone. I did vote for powerrox. The question that went unanswered was, "Does your ability pass on?" which to me that is an obvious, "Yes my ability cycles."
Would you have rather me not make a choice between Powerrox and TMH?

I dislike that you put "townie" in your post against me. I do not know anyone elses alignment besides myself. I do not know if Quadz is town, I do not know if Powerrox is town, nor did anyone else on their wagon knew he was town. Their is probably 5 scum, which means townies are going to be on a wagon.

o.o I thought I was lost in this game with the abilities talk, now I have more knowledge x_x.

@Pops: I wouldn't have expected the virus to show up their after it been used (I'm guessing that when it showed up?).
By the way, we need to get rid of this power. I can see pro side of having this power, but I also see a glaring negative side. IF you haven't thought about it, then I can explain it be rather not since I don't think scum have thought about it yet.

There's a buttload of confirmed townies now, so it's not an issue.

I re-used the virus ability night one, that's how it returned to play Bunnylover. When DBE died, logically it should have returned to the removed from game zone, but DGB claims that didn't happen.

I don't understand why everyone's okay with DGB living. Permanent vig? How in the sam hill is this set up balanced if we get a nightvig, truckloads of investigative roles floating around, and a majority of people controlling the ones that can be used both ways? She's not claiming the N1 or N3 kills, equivalent to claiming that she purged with a cycling power, even though no one in this game is claiming a cycling power. Yeah, it's lovely she shot scum, but if she's part of the largest scum faction that makes her the bad guy. Why isn't the Day 3 purge holder corroborating her story. Why isn't DGB barking at said player for not corroborating her story?


That said, ckd's guilt is also night-game related, and does also bear great weight. Lynching him first isn't so bad. But the fact that lots of people seem at peace with an individual that lies and kills stuff at night (what does that sound like) makes me think DGB has partners, which makes me more worried.

ninja'ed by the lolcat. LMP's role claims make as little sense as everything else. the Doc power died during the day Day 2, same way Virus went down Day 1, and when that happened it was immediately added to my list of abilities. DBE claims not to have had 3 powers, and she has implied that the two powers she had were double vote and doctor (when she said LMP is deftown at the start of the day), but somehow watcher magically reappears later when the power gets to LMP. Ability remover hasn't shown up, but the reuser ability does simply say that certain removed from game abilities happen to be available rather than that all of them should, so the mod may have just decided that ability was too good to be reused. And maybe the virus shouldn't come back more than once, so that got tossed too. But DGB still should have at least been choosing between watcher, double vote, and doctor, but she only claimed two abilities. It's not hard to generate a potential ulterior motive for this, she may have felt that with the choices of doctor, watcher, and double vote, the protown behavior was decidedly to watch someone, but instead she doctored a scumbuddy, or, even more likely, used ability remover on someone which made the ability remover ability go to the absolutely-freaking-removed-from-the-game-forever zone. So since the ability just says "here's the stuff you can do", and she possibly didn't understand that items were constantly being added to the list rather than just randomly grabbing choices out of a bag, she claimed never to have had the watcher ability so that she'll never have to make up results from a target that might prove false and damn her.

[popsofctown]

I believe your roleclaim, you're conftown at this point. I'm saying your role claims cast further doubt on DGB's. What we have is:

Pops: Double vote, watcher, virus
I
DGB: Doctor, Double vote
II
Lynch me pls: Watcher, double voter, doctor, ability director.

During (I), the virus got used, and conceivably thereby removed-for-freaking-ever. We'd expect Ability remove to be added to the ability when chkflip died though. (although the purge flavor may make abilities removed-for-freaking-ever, or the mod may have just decided not to make an ability that removes ability to be added to the ability that uses removed abilities because that's kind of like monster that can build itself.)

Also during (I), the doctor died, making the doctor ability show up in DGB's queue, as she has claimed.

But DGB claims not to have had the watcher power, even though I had it and you had it. It's like a genetic disease that skipped a generation.

But somehow I don't think the mod is treating the watcher ability like a recessive sex-linked genetic disorder

. Nvm, that's probably too biology nerdy for this crowd.

During II, ability redirector dies with a player and goes into the queue, just like it should. You have all the abilities that weren't purged or used with the reuser ability or kind of ridiculous if they're allowed to be overused. The roleclaim that's out of place is DGB's claim of having only 2 powers.

I mean, the only other explanation I can come up with where nobody's lying is that the mod is flipping a coin for every role, every day, to decide whether the reuser gets to use it, but that's a rather unlikely explanation since it'd be a crappy concealed mechanic, and there seems to be more reason than rhyme to which abilites were available and which weren't. (what with the relatively innocuous double vote being perpetually available, the watcher ability likewise tending to show up, and all the abilities that were made unavailable to LMP being rather powerful.)

[popsofctown]

ninja'ed. CKD, could you take a break from effusing emotion and play some mafia? Claiming not to be scum doesn't help us. Saying that only scum would attack you with no other logic besides the fact that it's a mislynch doesn't help us.
What you could do is scumhunt, even if mislynched you can mark people so that the next lynch is more accurate. I don't know why I'm having to go IC mode on page 89 of a large theme, but I need to get more from you.

[popsofctown]

Keep in mind that there were a lot more players alive when DGB had the ability as compared to when you had it, and there was also a lot fewer confirmed scums dead. At that point, gathering information would be far more useful then protecting players that seem pretty clearly town. By the time it got to you, there was another scumflip making us able to scumhunt much more effectively, there were fewer players in the game meaning that 1 confirmed townie is more of a big deal.

Furthermore, TMH's death made diddin a confirmed townie, so if DGB had used the doctor ability, she should have claimed to have used it on diddin. Actually, what in Arceus's name does DGB claim to have done with her power? Double vote? Doctoring one of the unconfirmed townies?

If DGB had the watcher ability N2, the best play was to watch diddin. If she had the doctor ability N2, the best play was to protect diddin. If she had both, best play was to watch diddin.

So we need to either assume she's scum who deliberately selected an antitown night action, or assume she didn't really know what exactly was going on with her ability. The former brings are merry journey of logick to an end, the latter is rather likely in light of her behavior shortly after she replaced in.

ConfusedDGB could very conceivable have lied about what powers were available to her because she didn't understand that later on it would be proven a lie. D1 it was demonstrated to me that the role progressively gains power because deaths constantly added powers to the queue. IIRC DGB replaced in after DBE's death, and unfortunately the mod may have simply given DGB the most recent pm rather than the progressive ones like I received D1, which would be oversight on his part, but not such a terrible mistake that it'd enrage his playerbase. This could further make confusedDGB unable to realize that she could be proven a liar later, if all she saw was, oh, there's a handful of a portion of the removed from game abilities and you can use them. She may have thought it worked like the coinflip method I suggested and rejected earlier, or any other number of things that isn't a real representation of how the role works.

Also, since this very game we caught Bunnylover "lying" (just confused though, really), but didn't lynch because the lie didn't make any sense, DGB may have felt comfortable taking the gambit with this playerbase and just hoping the deception was so blatant and nonsensical we'd have to dismiss it.



No explanation really makes really, really good sense, but the ones that come closest seem to me to tend to put DGB as scum, and tend to seem to me to give her a plurality of scumpartners that can help her bluff to victory.


-cut-

No LMP, that's not consistent with my experience with the ability.

At the beginning of D1 the mod told me I was vanilla with no ability. After muh died, I received a pm saying I had a "new ability", and would be able to use both watcher and virus that night. I clarified with the mod later and he said i actually had the ability all along, I just didn't receive any info about it until it had ammo in it. So it was updated midday. Then after the lynch, I received an ability update and he added double voter to the ability.

DGB would have immediately received the doctor ability once DBE died. And she probably did, making optimal play to protect diddin. Or watch diddin. Whatever, she didn't do either.

[popsofctown]

DGB claiming watcher-double vote is bullcrap. She said immediately at the beginning of the day that LMP was town, which tells me at that point she intended to claim doctor-double vote. She could only think "no one died so LMP is town" if she had doctor ability day 2. There's no other protective abilities at all in the removed from game zone. She's making this up as she goes along.

[popsofctown]

Dayvig is not in the void.

...

It's in play. Let's decide who we want to dayvig, AND who we want to lynch.

This is not a player who knows what's going on.

[popsofctown]

Hmm, the doctor was killed during D2, correct? If DGB received the abilities PM at the start of D1, then maybe that explains not having that ability? My options were listed when I received the role, which was start of D3. I don't know what would have happened if an ability went to the void during D3, if I would have received a new PM, an update from the mod, or I wouldn't have been able to access that ability at all.

My experience says you would have gotten an update.

You simply mispoke here when you said void and not removed-from-game right? I've backspaced that out a few times already because the word makes better flavor sense, so I wouldn't be surprised, but just clarifying to clarify here.

[popsofctown]

Dayvig is not in the void.

...

It's in play. Let's decide who we want to dayvig, AND who we want to lynch.

This is not a player who knows what's going on.

I just wanted to scare the scum and see how they'd react.

So you're expecting us not to believe you were clueless, but instead expect us to believe that YOU were certain that SCUM were that clueless?

If you wanted to have credibility later you wouldn't say crap like that. And townDGB with a complex role and a vig power day 2 wants to maintain nightgame credibility for sure.

[popsofctown]

How did you "know" LMP was town today then?

[popsofctown]

DGB, who did you watch. Nao. As if I should even have to ask you to claim that

[popsofctown]

DGB, your 2233 is responding to a post I made adressed to LMP. Wasn't intended for you to answer. We all know your current story is that you didn't get doctor power.

[popsofctown]

How did you "know" LMP was town today then?

OK you're shotgunning posts, so going strictly by memory, it was because of the ability he passed me. Scum would never give me that I after I shot down one of them.

The other scum faction wouldn't, true. I guess this makes sense.

I still want to know why you didn't watch Diddin.

[popsofctown]

This is why I hate replacements. I specifically sent my power to someone who would use it the way I liked as town

[popsofctown]

TBH, perhaps at the point you said "not 1 or 3", you thought you had two powers and made a mistake, but were overly nervous about changing your story because you're scum.

Or maybe it's something else.

Things still aren't adding up, but I can't figure out what has really happened.

[popsofctown]

Sad and unfortunate.

I guess it's okay if we presume DGB SK and lynch ckd today, as long as we aren't in lylo, which i don't think is the case.

[popsofctown]

Does anyone feel like every single subsequent post SC makes gets scummier and scummier? Like I seriously think his iso is ordered from town to scum.

DGB no one wants to watch you. If someone kills you we'll be happy enough that we've found out your alignment. No need to put all the bets on one horse.

[popsofctown]

what would that prove?

[popsofctown]

Killing townies implies a player is scum? Then maybe we should lynch you.

[popsofctown]

I think you are mixing it up chronologically, the way I recall it Vi was a ckd fan before the failpass, the furcolow was the only one posting ckd love after the failpass.

DGB I was kidding. Settle down. But anyhow, from our PoV you're not a definite target tonight, while the plethora of conftownies are.

[popsofctown]

hey that reminds me.

PSA: L-2 IS NOW L-1 and L-1 IS A HAMMER BECAUSE DOUBLE VOTE IS POTENTIALLY IN PLAY.

[popsofctown]

Actually I was planning to RL spam the thread about my wondrous adventures ballroom dance class but figured that'd be rather off alongside Rika, so I tried to brainstorm a more masculine avatar. I decided I prolly actually shouldn't spam since it's already adequately irked you this game, but then since I came to the realization that I had not done an avatar of the crocodile transformation of Banjo during all this, an avatar change became absolutely and forcefully inevitable.

You better be afraid of what happens if one of my to or fro cycling partners flips scum. You'll have to use google searches with advanced settings on to find my content then .

[popsofctown]

Hey, I don't like the way the forum depicted that emoticon. I'm totally writing some angry emails to mith.

Anywhoo, implosion, I think we should at least claim the role from the q21-implosion-pops change by twilight, would you agree?

[popsofctown]

We'll just twilight claim then.

[popsofctown]

Not if they silence the only person who'd know.

[popsofctown]

I want the hammer formality soz i can twilightpost

[popsofctown]

It's a possibility, not a probability, that whoever you passed your ability to is a scumbag. It'd be rather poor SK play to pass a double-vote doctor joat to scum, but perhaps you missed. Such a player could secret doublevote hammer ckd scum or ckd town, just to cut off discussion, the former case obviously only occuring when lynch seems inevitable anyway.

q21 makes a good point about dgb-sk,but somehow sk hunting doesn't make me feel better about his alignment.


Furc, SK hunting to an extent that unhealthily excludes scumhunting is considered a scumtell by a lot of people I've played with, including me. I've spent most of this day trying to determine what the risk is that DGB is part of a second scum faction rather than working alone, which is essentially scumhunting.

Lol at "popsarian2". I'm only gonna hear that once.

At the risk of making the hypathetical pairing even more popular, I'm going to say that I don't see Bunnylover's sheeping as scummy. S/he declared me to be "100% town" day 2, so there's at least some consistency there. When you don't have a great grasp on a game, sheeping a confirmed townie is actually optimized play.

Bunnylover's game-long failure to produce anything independent is a scumtell though. Once we get to a day that's not lynch-the-guy-who-"failed"-to-cycle, I'll probably want to meta the rabbit enthusiast to determine how this play lines up with other games, since she seems to have a lot of scum-xor-noobtells. (maybe the or isn't exclusive idk, but I'm a compsci major I want every opportunity to use xor in daily conversation).


q21, I wouldn't really worry about getting to the root of DGB's suspicions. You probably won't change her mind, and she's the one player who's not going to have to convince everyone else to agree with her to have your scalp..

Just keep hunting, more scum and less SKs though.

Vi, do you feel bunnylover and pops are buddying?
You said you're happy with the bunnylover vote, and pops responses/grilling of DGB. If you answered yes to the above, care to explain how you can be happy with a vote on someone, and with another player they are buddying, both at the same time? Do you feel like one of them are scum, and one are town?

Not trying to confuse you here, just trying to get on the same page.

Aw, did Vi start to changer her mind about me but hide it in the QT? <3
I'm the most prolific poster though, so remember that I'm going to have a lot of buddies. lateralus was my buddy and so was RC he was my buddy and diddin I kinda made him my buddy and bunnylover is my buddy and Stranger Coug used to be my buddy but now I think he has to die. Unless all the people I've declared town or who have declared me town flip scum I wouldn't start using buddying as a basis for suspicion of me. It falls among the group of errors that punish players simply for having posted a lot, which isn't something you want to punish since that's a nulltell or towntell depending on who you ask. Or it punishes players who frequently declare other players town, which is a towntell or nulltell depending on who you ask. Or it punishes players who are frequently declared town, which is a towntell

or nulltell

depending on who you ask. So tl;dr summary, you need some flips to start pushing this.

[popsofctown]

LMP, go read your role pm. The double vote is secret, no accountability.

[popsofctown]

LMP, I am also confused by DGB's claim that she misunderstood her role so much that she didn't send in a night action. Seems like as night approached, she would at least say, "ok, I don't really understand this, but I want to watch Saint tonight and double vote" or something like that. She's a vet, she knows how bad not sending in a powerful night action like that is. Furthermore, confusion over her role seems to drastically increase the odds that the mod would realize his error. I think it's possible that her confusion was actually focused around whatever role purges people.

Wasn't fishing for a reaction, was trying to find a contradiction in her story. She then seemed to claim that you passed a PR to her, which didn't really need to be said. Don't know how she knows the PR came from you either.

[popsofctown]

ROFLLL IAI accuses someone of rolefishing. loll

aaand the confirmation bias never ends. There's not even really a point in addressing your attacks anymore. I can't contradict your conclusion that I'm scum, because the premise for it is that I'm scum. And to disprove that premise, I'd have to disprove your earlier conclusion that I'm scum, for which the reasoning is that I'm scum. And to demonstrate the invalidity of that reasoning, I'd have to conclusively disprove the basis of that reasoning, which is that I am scum.

You're actually getting to that threshhold to where it's starting to get funny. Please keep going. (unless you somehow gain support for your nonsense, then please stop)

[popsofctown]

mkay

(unless you somehow gain support for your nonsense, then please stop)

[popsofctown]

It's a hotly debated point atm. Me and diddin think the treestump ability should be removed early so it doesn't stick around longer than we want it to and functionally kill 1-2 townies at LyLo.


My opponents thinks getting possibly one, maybe, maaaybe two confirmed innocents off the ability is worth that risk.

If only someone had warned us. early on

[popsofctown]

But hey, the important thing is that the treestump is now our exclusive and reliable source of confirmed innocents, mirite.

[popsofctown]

Ok, I'll stop whining now, I swear.

[popsofctown]

DGB can purge it or it can get passed to the void.

Aw, did Vi start to changer her mind about me but hide it in the QT? <3

Th-Th-Thaaaaat's not what you think it means! I-I'm not changing my mind on you at all! I totally don't have any feelings for you at all whatsoever!

[color]

Understood

Although if you're interested, the last thing I said in the QT involved explaining why ckd is being put up as Today's lynch. I don't think Furc buys it, I'm lukewarm about it - I think there are a handful of people who I more want to see lynched (Goofball, Bunnylover, Coug, pops?) and I wouldn't be surprised if ckd flips Town but I have no reason to argue AGAINST it.

[color]

I tried to push goofball wagon, but support just wasn't there. You're very own slot won't help make that lynch viable.

As for bunnylover, his play has been a foil to ckd's this game, but ckd also has the botched night action against him. X + k > X for all X.

Coug isn't a bad lynch at all but DGB and ckd just seem like even stronger choices.

For all the "buddying" pops is allegedly doing to Bunnylover, he hasn't said a word about Coug's sheep onto ckd

Ok, that's just libel. The

very next post

after the sheep is me criticizing the behavior. If you're saying I have to explain why that's scummy, come on...do I have to?

I liked his day 1 play and that's why I infected him with the virus. Then I liked the way he handled the virus. Then tmh flip sez actually SC's virus handling was the scummiest possible behavior the whole time, and now, no, I'm not happy with that slot at all.

ROFLLL IAI accuses someone of rolefishing. loll

Your pops posts. Now with REAL PRO-TOWN MOTIVATION.

IAI did the most blatant rolefishing I've ever seen day 2, so my kneejerk reaction was some laughter. I do admit that I can't really see how expressing my amusement was pro-town, since IAI is conf-town/near conf-town anyway, but I hope you aren't trying to make me out as insincere.

Well I think we still need to address the non-pass of the Stump to TMH, which would implicate CKD as scum. If my Day Vig become active, I will probably shoot the stump. I'm gonna go back and look at the Q21 case, at this point I feel it may be my duty to Day-Vig him if the opportunity arises.

As previously stated, the non-pass is highly scummy, but ckd's interactions with RedCoyote don't look like scum. Unless RedCoyote is a lot better than I thought. For the Day-vig, there is a reason the stump was given to q21. But I don't see any chance of the Day-vig becoming active. So I hope that the purge can be used on q21 tonight, because he needs to be gone, and that stump needs to be gone.

If I recall my experiences with RC correctly, and I think I do, I have to confess you have a point. His strategy is generally to make out other players as bigger fish to fry. Of course, he knows his own meta, etc, blahblahblah.
Geez, no one will let me find a player to start tying knots for and be happy about it. It's like DGBscum is valid, CKDscum is valid, but none of them connect very well with the dead scum players, and we haven't been seeing two scum factions shooting at night or anything - HOLD IT!!!

*ignoring it completely and continuing as if it weren't there, because it's completely indefensible[/i][/color]

Because you can't lynch me today anyway, on account of the ability I've been passed. And if you can convince a lot of players of what you are trying to convince them of, it's going to make it doubly useful.

please explain to me how claiming is scummy

What reason does a town player have to say "hey guys, i'm a power role right now, scum can get rid of it by killing me tonight?" In effect, that's what claiming a power role does.

Yeah, DGB needs to read that too.

This logic clearly indicates that DGB isn't a town player.

Fixed that for you.

Definitely a role that should be outed. It's a tracker. I didn't get anything useful out of it.

I tracked chkflip on N1, and saw him target Darla. When he flipped, and I saw his a ability revealed as Ability Remover, and then Darla claimed to have had the doctor N1, I was very worried. And then Saint came up with a plan to determine whether Darla was lying based on whether or not the Doctor ability was seen by who she passed it to. I was trying to breadcrumb as hard as I could that there was missing info. Eventually, I stated it right out. Apparently, the way I had assumed that chkflip's ability works was completely wrong though, so there was no reason to do any of this.

This is very troubling. Actions resolve before cycles, and chkflip targetted DBE with the ability remover, but Parama died with it. So the ability remover would have to be something more like a roleblock, or some other weaker thing than sending the ability along its path to exile.

Then why is it that the mod deemed it unfit to be used by the ability reuser power? It's the only power a player died with that didn't go into the bag of tricks, besides the virus, which had already been used once by the reuser power so that makes some sense.

It doesn't make any sense.. unless maybe DGB exhausted the ability by using it D2 and then lied about it. (can't fall under the mod error since LMP claims to not have seen ability remover either). Which would explain why she "didn't submit"

any

sort of N2 action in spite of repeated contact with the mod, and would explain why she had something to be confused about, since the ability remover ability may not have been as straightforward as the reuser ability which was quite easy to understand.

Speaking of this, DGB, could you let us inside your head on how you interpreted the reuser role pm in a way that made you not wish to submit any sort of ability with it? Transparency is a keystone of good town play, and is the reason I was rather specific about the confusion I generated D2 with the virus infecting. On the other hand, you're only giving us info once specifically asked and didn't confess to your failure to send in a night action until quite late in the day. You've also repeatedly asked me for information before sharing information of your own, as if you need to develop a working story. It's getting more and more mysterious to me how you have so few votes.

Day Vig:

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug/randomly sent to WC -> WrathChild

I thought that Coug claimed to have retrieved the Day Vig from the void.

According to the cougar, he selected the ability to be retrieved. He was then supposed to pick a player who was going to receive that ability, but he didn't, so it was passed at random.

I sincerely apologize for this, but it has been brought to my attention that there was a mod error in DrippingGoofball's final Day / Night Two Ability Message. DrippingGoofball has received a corrected Ability Message for that Night.

Lemme guess, DGB was supposed to get a Doctor message. This explains everything.

Besides the purge ability, which DGB apparently has every night, and the missing ability remover, although it's possible that the ability remover was too powerful for the recycler in some creative bizarre way we don't understand.

This question seemed innocuous at the time, but given that we now know she had 2 abilities it becomes suspect since if you have two abilities surely its obvious you can be passed two abilities. Unless one of your abilities is one that never passes - then you'd have to check, because if you can't be passed two abilities then letting slip later in the game that you had two abilities marks you out as different, ie. scum. Or SK as is probably more likely.

An actually good point from scum21. But pops says it best:

q21 makes a good point about dgb-sk,but somehow sk hunting doesn't make me feel better about his alignment.

How did you "know" LMP was town today then?

OK you're shotgunning posts, so going strictly by memory, it was because of the ability he passed me. Scum would never give me that I after I shot down one of them.

Are you fishing for a reaction here? Cause something aint right.

You are right. How could DGB possibly know where whatever ability she has came from?

DGB could only know that the ability she's holding came from LMP if it's the recycler power. So, again, she's claiming a PR, which doesn't propel oneself towards the town wincon. TownDGB would refuse to reveal her sources of why LMP is town, rendering the claim valid post-flip and provisional in the meantime.

But hey, the important thing is that the treestump is now our exclusive and reliable source of confirmed innocents, mirite.

Yet you're the guy pushing a DGB lynch, which is probably our last hope to get rid of the stump. Yeah, your motives are totally protown.

BunnyLover, I addressed that as saying anyone with the Purge Ability should use it on q21 tonight. Scum & TreeStump gone. Are you even reading this thread?

If DGB is a hope of getting rid of the stump, that means she has a permanent kill ability.

If she has a permanent kill ability, it rather strongly indicates as scum/SK.

SK's odds of winning are improved with the stump in play.

ScumDGB's odds of winning are drastically improved if her so far unscarred faction doesn't lose a member today.


Yes. I'm being protown.


@wrathchild: the pops->dgb->LMP line is fully claimed, it's ability reuser.

and -cut-

The void collector ability would not have appeared to the player holding it day 1. Abilities that are based on a list of choices don't come into existence until the number of choices becomes one or more. For this reason I wasn't told I had ability recycler until midday day 1. The mod said that similar situations are handled in a similar fashion, so whoever had the void collector ability day 1 either continued holding it or randomly passed it in complete ignorance, and wasn't lying, so no contradiction there.

[popsofctown]

You're catching on.


One would expect that you could deduce the abilities currently available to the recycler at any point in time because they should include all abilities that are removed from play.

Technically, though, the way the role is worded, not every removed from play has to be available all the time. But since heavy use of a d20 is not popular role design, all these exclusions should have a REASON.

The virus's disappearance from DGB and LMP's list has an ok reason, sure, using the virus more than once runs counter to an ability that's designed to work like a JOAT.

But the ability remover needs a reason not to be in the recycling bin.


Oh, well, actually, rereading 2308, at that point the blank exists due to mod error. So many abilities were missing from DGB's pool that she didn't think it was an all-encompassing thing at all.

[popsofctown]

SKs always seem rather out of place in the daygame.

The way the ability cop work bodes well for my little pet theory that the mafia nightkill is a nonstandard power role cycling within the mafia group.

Spoiler: Just for fun

And my much sillier theory that DGB accidentally killed RCpartner trying to cycle the mafia kill to him, then as a kneejerk reflex immediately claimed the kill to try to salvage good out of the situation, hoping she could figure out a consistent story later, and couldn't.

[popsofctown]

Pops, can I have your current Top 4 suspects for bad guys/SK?

DGB, ckd, q21, strangercoug in some order

[popsofctown]

I am Innocent, you still have little explanation for DGB would purge a player who is lowering her threshhold for victory.

And there still isn't anyone in this game who can confirm that there's only one mafia faction, meaning putting off DGBlynch could end the game rather than procrastinate a chore.

[popsofctown]

q21 needs to claim a target for N2

I targeted TMH himself night 2. I figured the scum might well get their scummiest player to make the kill rather than risk exposing a townier player to something like a tracker. It seems I was wrong.
[/quote]
The scum so totally have a cycling nightkill then.

Well done for arriving at the same conclusion [that dgb is sk] as the rest of us, finally. But be careful, apparently this type point is scummy.

Null, not scummy.

Key phrases:

"Purge ability (whoever that may be ) is used on q21"
"DGball, should be tracked. If he gets tracked with anyone other than q21,

everyone needs to lynch him D5

."
"

You're advocating that we waste the track on a player we already know is not town, in hopes that that player will violate their own wincon and kill q21. I'm not a fan, at all.

How come no one ITT wants to talk about whether DGB could have a scumteam? If some sort of setup design principle renders it unlikely, then I'd want hear about it rather than be ignored. If DGB's team has 4 players we're in mylo. If it has 3 players, it will take very strong consensus to take the team down.
A player who had seen a scum pm rapidly speculated about two scumteams.
The very mechanic of being able to cycle abilities becomes terribly more interesting with two scumteams, as scum players would need to carefully cycle to targets they consider town, and would even possibly cycle investigative roles to townies that they think would use them against the rival mafia faction.
I've brought this up umpteen times now and I don't think anyone has directly addressed the possibility a single time. It's making me think the point is confirmed by the silence on it, much like early game attacks on mafia players often are.

[popsofctown]

my god, just checking in....will try to catch up this weekend, and will give one of those.."here is what I think as I go out the door" posts...most of it will be ignored(now), until you know that I am town (ie dead)...but could be useful none the less.

How many times have you said "I'll catch up later" or its equivalent now?

In question form, to allow the slight possibility that the overall behavior was acceptable so maybe the bus doesn't have to go through.

You have been lurking for a lot of the game

Bizzarely declining the opportunity to use hyperbole and say that ckd has been lurking the entire game, if that's even hyperbole at all.

and I have no clue who your suspects are.

Don't you mean no one has any clue who his suspects are? Or did you phrase it this way since, if you missed a post where he listed them with the scumskim reading style, the original statement is still valid, protecting you from having made a false statement, protecting you from getting lynched, protecting the scum wincon.



Does SC make weird posts like this as town?

[popsofctown]

I didn't intend to appeal to fear, just explain why putting off the lynch can have negative consequences. There's a difference between emphasizing risks that people are already aware of and identifying ones people might not be aware of, and it's rather easy to forget the treestump's impact on the game.

You're advocating that we waste the track on a player we already know is not town, in hopes that that player will violate their own wincon and kill q21. I'm not a fan, at all.

How do you know he is not town?

She lied. Town doesn't lie. There exists no cohesive explanation whatsoever for DGB being able to purge RC n2, but then the n1 nor n3 controller being able to confirm the role exists. She either didn't perform that kill, or she has the purge power every night. The theory that she is "town hero", a permanent vigilante, is bantha pudu, having a killing power role that doesn't cycle violates all the design principles of this game UNLESS it's a traditional killing faction, like SK, or mafia, or werewolves.

What do you think about the 3 players who have been purged? Why would a second scum team choose those targets over obv town?

You're kidding right? As scum of a dueling faction, townies are the ones who can vote for you, scum are the ones who can vote for you

and

shoot you. Optimal strategy for dueling scum factions is to shoot eachother, then deal with the town after that.

First two sentences, I'll answer.

We have 2 Daevori.

We have 2 more players tied very closely to these Daevori:

CKD - Did not pass the TreeStump to TMH though we adamantly asked him to D2 (and he agreed to D2). RC asked him if he really had the TreeStump. RC also pushed for TMH to die D2 (which would have removed the obstacle for CKD to send the treestump to a teammate).

q21 - TMH basically told him to lay off Diddin, saying (in sort of these words) "we're going to need the dayvig D2. We can kill diddin D2" q21 then pushed powerox, and proceeded to vote Diddin beginning of D2.

That is 4 likely scum on one team.

You just will never stop counting unhatched chickens will you. So many unhatched chickens. These chicken embryos have names, customized rooms, a college fund, and their first few doctor appointments scheduled.

You can't keep basing things off of flips that haven't happened. It's not logically grounded.

To say that there is another team of 3 or 4 that has been shooting at scummy players is ludicrous.

Most everyone else in the thread except you (me, q21, wrathchild, saint for the most part) has accepted that DGB is not town and is the one purging people. The size of the group responsible for the purges doesn't really have any relationship with how logical the chain of nightkills is for a third party (although they are extremely logical, with a N1 attempt to kill the other faction, N2 successful kill of the other faction, and N3 aiming for a scummy player who had been accused of being connected with the shotgun-faction.) So if your position is really that "there is no other scumteam because the one who's purging players is town", you need to be defending DGB rather than putting her lynch off for another day. At least be consistent.

I've already said why it's more likely... Plus there's the whole flavor thing at the beginning.
If Goofball flipped second scumgroup (and we would be able to positively identify it as a second scumgroup instead of a weird SK name) then I know exactly who I would go for the next Day, but until then, lol speculation.

ckd has pretty much worn out any sympathy I could want to give him at this point.
Coug's diatribe in 2357 wins at irony, though.

You mean here?

Does the flavor really rule out two scumteams?

Nothing in the flavor does (although seeing red used for one faction hints at it somewhat.) However, the setup and her actions pretty consistently hint at SK. I would love to be proven wrong on this, specifically by her flip.

The color thing is weak sauce, which you seem to concede.

You didn't explain how the setup hints at SK, you just said it does. You didn't explain how DGB's actions hint at SK, you just said they do.

At best you thought of reasons why it's unlikely, but never got all the way around the bush to telling me why it's unlikely. Digame, por favor. (tell me please)

And for good measure,

Mod: Is the opening post of this thread intended to indicate that there are exactly two teams in this game? (including town)

[popsofctown]

Has that neighbor QT become public?

I would certainly agree that DGBtown is more aggressive than DGBscum. I've played with both DGB alignments.

[popsofctown]

This mod is

perfect

really good

[popsofctown]

Not that SC isn't scum, but I've never seen scum coach teammates during the day, ever.

And Furc, the mod was answering my direct query.

[popsofctown]

If DGB lynch doesn't materialize or someone convinces me she's working alone, yes, I plan on voting CKD. He's not super scummy based on gameplay, it's in that sort of illegible area where a player is so blatantly antitown and AtE defensemode that accurate reading is difficult, but the missed pass is just something that can't be ignored. He posted six minutes after the thread opened. Even if the chance he actually checked the thread is 50%, or 40%, or 30%, that entire slice of the pie can be shaded "ckd is scum in this case", which is a lot of information. And even if he didn't check the thread, doesn't mean he's town. So it's a really good lynch.

Of course, having 99% information that DGB is not town is powerful information too, which is why I much prefer that lynch.

[popsofctown]

@Pops, you ask me if I am kidding. You said anti-scum factions would kill each other first. Well if that is the case, why is the shotgunning team shooting at MOI, Diddin, and me/Implosion? Your theory seems to only work for one team...

MoI was not particularly pro-town, just really active.

Diddin had been publically confirmed not to be a part of the shotgun faction, and wasn't autotown at all. As good of a shotgun target as an Elite standing a meter away with his shields down.

As for shooting you, idk. The shotgun faction might have thought tunneling and dueling scum is a thing. Or the primary scum faction may be less certain there are two factions, since the purge kill flavor had a rather positive ring to it. Or it'd be the second time someone who was attacking me had died, so perhaps I was the ~real~ kill target there.


I'd ask you, if it's the case that DGB is an SK, why'd she claim the RC shot D2? Your theory only works for one day..

Anyways, are you claiming SK? It appears you are softclaiming it.

Hardclaiming almost.

am not caught up, class

[popsofctown]

There is too evidence. Occam's razor and process of elimination suggests two scumteams.
1. TownDGB neither has control of a perpetual nightkill nor lies about her abilities.
2. SKDGB doesn't claim her nightkill because it proves (1), and guarantees a lynch in SK lylo. Furthermore, the SK strategy that Vi copypasted from DGB's former QT says that DGBSK keeps a low profile and tries to tick neither scum nor town off. Claiming a nightkill doesn't fit that mold.
3. ScumDGB doesn't mind "proving" herself "SK", because it creates a lynch desire that's easily procrastinated to the point that her unscarred, unknown faction swings directly to victory. ScumDGB could also have a role interaction involving a teammate to protect her from nightkills, perhaps the ability remover of confusing mechanics does it somehow even. ScumDGB sees ckd lynch all lined up, and sees her place in the queue. It's the most plausible thing.


-cut-

IAI, why do you still expect a player who has claimed SK to be motivated by threat of delayed lynches?

[popsofctown]

As furc has explained, leaving DGB alive is the most dangerous thing regardless of whether she's SK or an entire scumteam.

1. If DGB is SK and ckd is scum, lynching DGB puts the ckd lynch off a day, but then we lynch ckd the next day and an explosion of confirmed innocents and other preponderances of information win the game.
2. If DGB is SK and ckd is scum, lynching ckd gains the same preponderance of information and we then proceed with great accuracy, but we do so while potentially losing two townies a night, dampening the autowin down to a maybe. Yeah, maybe DGB is terrible at mafia and shoots q21, but even then you're just changing autowin of (1) to autowin, at the risk of losing autowin. Zat's no good.

If DGB is Sk and ckd isn't scum, but rather someone who didn't post in any games because he really wasn't on mafiascum, then lynching him means we lose up to two townies tonight, don't even get the helpful information, and are forced to lynch DGB the next day, and basically it's just like 2 except even more fail.

[popsofctown]

As furc has explained

I got lost somewhere in pops' 1) and 2) but the last paragraph is correct at least.

? Furcolow mentioned the possibility of 4v3v1 lylo tomorrow, unless that was you without colored italics font.

[popsofctown]

o, i'm not voting.

vote: dgb

[popsofctown]

Saint, so you think I'm SK, which I am not.

Are you afraid that I might NK Q21, and Q21 may be town, and failing to confirm you? Are you worried about this?

CKD is total obv scum. You think there's any chance he's town?

You saying I'm misrepping you is a little rich, after you lied about things I didn't say in some old QT. Get a grip, if you're town.

I'm town, and none of these scenarios you are fearmongering are going to happen.

No, I'm worried you won't do

anything we ask of you

if you believe q21 is scum, then you believe we are town
if q21 is town, however, we are still town

it is irrelevant
i am astonished that people are seeking an avenue away from the SK, the more I crunch the numbers, it is really not beneficial to do anything else here. If we're left at 8v3, at least passing the treestump to the void is a possibility.

This post would've made my day, were it not already made by the guy who accidentally told a girl "taste me" in front of a whole Spanish class.

[popsofctown]

IAI, why do you still expect a player who has claimed SK to be motivated by threat of delayed lynches?

I have not claimed SK, get lost, now you're pushing the misrep a little too far.

I'm town and I win with the town. Furthermore, I'm totally anti-scum.

Alternate pro-town wincon softclaim? Not buying it since you already claimed Eruci earlier.

(what if she just does what she wants?)

Actually, to be quite honest, that describes what DGB does with every alignment, in every game, and probably even in every minute of her day to day life.

Pops, how are you for sure she got nightkilled?
I was speculating that, considering mafia didn't hit one night, it being a possible hit on DGB.
The fact you are arguing against her being the SK makes me believe you are scum trying to muddy the waters. It is really a forgone conclusion, given that she tried to game cyclable abilities as an SK with "a good fakeclaim"

more like a good failclaim

I wasn't saying she was definitely targetted by the shotgun last night. I was saying that there are several reasons to explain why she doesn't need to be afraid of nightkills if she's part of a scum faction. A non-bulletproof SK has fewer options there.

I can respect the opinion that she is more likely to be SK than werewolf (mafia2), though I personally disagree and would give werewolf the edge. Either way, the two of us agree DGB should be the next lynch, and either way, it will all be moot after that lynch, with either the werewolves being confirmed as a figment of my imagination, or confirmed as a nightmare truly realized. Let's just agree to disagree and be pragmatic, all right? I'm not trying to muddy the waters, I'm just trying to convince people that the lynch you agree is the correct lynch needs to happen.

ScumDGB could also have a role interaction involving a teammate to protect her from nightkills, perhaps the ability remover of confusing mechanics does it somehow even.

WOW

How did I miss that???

Where does this NK protection bizniss come from?

Where does this ability removal bizniss come from?

You tell me. Why do you think you're alive?

[popsofctown]

itt townies never disagree about anything, evar

[popsofctown]

Confirmed townies are only useful in that you know, "hey, this is a guy I should never vote for".

Since pretty much everyone agrees on lynching ckd and DGB consecutively in some order, that point is moot. We'll know not to lynch the people ckd has a relationship too tomorrow because we'll be busy lynching ckd.

We'll get the confirmed townies eventually, and in the meantime townie confirmation is of no use. It's like cutting in line to get on the bus first.

[popsofctown]

It's not in her best interest to shoot the stump as any alignment but town. And there's no way she's town.

[popsofctown]

Confirmed town are useful because you know not to lynch them. If you're following a lynch itinerary and no one on that itinerary could possibly become confirmed town, it's irrelevant. Stop putting all five fingers on a rule of thumb.

[popsofctown]

It's not in her best interest to shoot the stump as any alignment but town. And there's no way she's town.

But what if Q21 is town, and you're scum? Maybe you should be purged.

lol at the SK puppeteers. Pinocchio clearly wants to be a real boy.

[popsofctown]

Huh? q21 is a rather distant third right now (or fourth, not keeping close track). I don't find it important he die super soon, everyone wants you to shoot q21 though because they find him to be somewhere between mildly and very scummy, AND he's holding a stump.

I shouldn't be purged because I'm town. Don't know what you want past that.

[popsofctown]

oh come on, Vi, i'm pretty sure i remember having to type out

at least 5 times in the past 2 RL days

@Pops, you ask me if I am kidding. You said anti-scum factions would kill each other first. Well if that is the case, why is the shotgunning team shooting at MOI, Diddin, and me/Implosion? Your theory seems to only work for one team...

MoI was not particularly pro-town, just really active.

Diddin had been publically confirmed not to be a part of the shotgun faction, and wasn't autotown at all. As good of a shotgun target as an Elite standing a meter away with his shields down.

As for shooting you, idk

. The shotgun faction might have thought tunneling and dueling scum is a thing. Or the primary scum faction may be less certain there are two factions, since the purge kill flavor had a rather positive ring to it. Or it'd be the second time someone who was attacking me had died, so perhaps I was the ~real~ kill target there.

How do you know they shot me? I said either me (Doctor Protection) or Implosion (Hibernate Ability)?

Interesting.

I will reiterate the "interesting" and raise a "he never responded to this."

I thought I did, but I don't want to go through the thread and find a quote that proves someone wrong again, it's getting old.

I glazed over the possibility that DGB is NK immune. At the (100%) risk of using self provided meta, my perspective on this may be biased because the only time I drew SK I got no such luxury.
As for the possibilities of an unknown role preventing the kill even after the massclaim and scum just declining to shoot, they seem so unlikely that they don't need to be repeated every time something gets analyzed.

IAI, why do you still expect a player who has claimed SK to be motivated by threat of delayed lynches?

I have not claimed SK, get lost, now you're pushing the misrep a little too far.

I'm town and I win with the town. Furthermore, I'm totally anti-scum.

Alternate pro-town wincon softclaim? Not buying it since you already claimed Eruci earlier.

Could you please tell me how you got that from what she said?

Given that Goofball is an SK (or even just a permanent Vigilante who lies and quickhammers, so it's pretty much the same thing)

I lol'ed.

And I chuckled hard.

In any event, you guys seem to know that I'm Eruci, so my having a scumteam can be eliminated - though lying quickhammerin' permavig remains an attractive possibility.

Is the virus something that gets used up?

Direct claim here.

ScumDGB could also have a role interaction involving a teammate to protect her from nightkills, perhaps the ability remover of confusing mechanics does it somehow even.

WOW

How did I miss that???

Where does this NK protection bizniss come from?

Where does this ability removal bizniss come from?

You tell me. Why do you think you're alive?

Are you insane? Or are you scum that knows something that nobody else does?

I only meant to imply that DGB's beating heart and respirating lungs are a scumtell. She claimed vig.... oh, oops, actually I'm crazy. As of last night, everyone thought the purge was still cycling around, so scum wouldn't aim for DGB. It's only now in absence of purge claimage that we know it's something she can do night after night.

Hi pops! I see you have now ignored two questions from other players (and responded to some others in a very useless manner). I have quoted IAI's question for you, and have restated DGB's in a different form. Please answer.

I'm the most prolific poster in this thread. I get asked a lot of questions. Let's be fair, please. Maybe set up a ratio of questions I answer and the ones I don't, then make a pie chart out of stainless steel so I can take the "unanswered question" part to cut my meat at dinnertime. Suitemate took all our silverware when he left, the jerkwad.

EVERYONE.

Well, you did capitalize everyone. I'm gonna have to say q21.

[popsofctown]

oh dang, i didn't think {i} would italicize the rest of a post without a [/i] >_<

[popsofctown]

Given that Goofball is an SK (or even just a permanent Vigilante who lies and quickhammers, so it's pretty much the same thing)

I lol'ed.

And I chuckled hard.

In any event, you guys seem to know that I'm Eruci, so my having a scumteam can be eliminated - though lying quickhammerin' permavig remains an attractive possibility.

Is the virus something that gets used up?

Direct claim here.

I don't consider this a claim, but maybe I am letting DGB off the hook a little too much just cuz she is acting like DGB.

In english the word "know" is only used to refer to someone believing in an idea that is, in reality, true. That is a claim.

And er, yeah, i missed the hibernate. If your point is that I should be the lynch rather than DGB because I'm paying less attention to the thread, though, it's a rather flawed one.

[popsofctown]

Too scummy to be(Too scummy to be(too scummy to be(too scummy be scum)))

In english, he's probscum. He's trying to convince that he doesn't like to play mafia. But I think StrangerCoug likes to play mafia. He may not like to play scum though.

[popsofctown]

Ignoring self-provided meta on principle, i remember you seeming less enthusiastic as scum. Perhaps only when you're losing, but two shotguns down and ckd lynch all but mandatory, that's probably the case.

[popsofctown]

I think it very well may be.

[popsofctown]

I think it very well may be.

hmmm
perhaps

eh, conceivably

[popsofctown]

Come on. You knew that was wrong before and after you pressed submit.

[popsofctown]

Oh, right, I also had a post on my clipboard.

Eh, no, looking back the shotgun is mafia kill flavor. They killed MoI, conf town diddin, and no one last night. Pretty clearly scum motivated.

@Pops, you ask me if I am kidding. You said anti-scum factions would kill each other first. Well if that is the case, why is the shotgunning team shooting at MOI, Diddin, and me/Implosion? Your theory seems to only work for one team...

MoI was not particularly pro-town, just really active.

Diddin had been publically confirmed not to be a part of the shotgun faction, and wasn't autotown at all. As good of a shotgun target as an Elite standing a meter away with his shields down.

As for shooting you, idk. The shotgun faction might have thought tunneling and dueling scum is a thing. Or the primary scum faction may be less certain there are two factions, since the purge kill flavor had a rather positive ring to it. Or it'd be the second time someone who was attacking me had died, so perhaps I was the ~real~ kill target there.

Why the change in opinion?

Because 90% of the weight of that older post was "conf town diddin". Who is only confirmed not to be part of the shotgun faction in the two scums case.

Ignoring self-provided meta on principle, i remember you seeming less enthusiastic as scum. Perhaps only when you're losing, but two shotguns down and ckd lynch all but mandatory, that's probably the case.

Ah, yes. The game you hate me for, right?

I don't hate you for any game, and I don't know which game you're referencing here.

[popsofctown]

I had to reread the game to remember that at all. Probably because iirc you more or less apologized in the scum QT of open 100.

[popsofctown]

Some lucky person has six days to read 102 pages, if that.

[popsofctown]

aaand dgb is setting up for a claimless quickhammer.

ITT confirmed scums get to behave like confirmed innocents. It is the crazy.

[popsofctown]

Either ckd lynch or DGB lynch is an overwhelmingly correct choice due to the extremely unique conditions surrounding each of those players, but only like a third of the town has really made a t-chart about it.

Whatever DGB is trying to pull off, she's succeeding.

[popsofctown]

essentially confirmed scum<confirmed scum

[popsofctown]

You mean reconfirm

[popsofctown]

Of course. The current plan is apparently to lynch you the day after you achieve your wincon.

[popsofctown]

DGB how do you make everyone do exactly what you want? It's uncanny.

[popsofctown]

Le sigh.


According to all the PDA on campus today is Valentine's day. Who wants to be my valentine?




I offer cookies.

[popsofctown]

My avatar says it all, YES!

I posted in the hate DGB thread though. Wouldn't that make things awkward?

[popsofctown]

My avatar says it all, YES!

I posted in the hate DGB thread though. Wouldn't that make things awkward?

Hate is the new Love, hahahahaha.

Good point.

Let's be hateful valentines.

Loverize: DGB

Daykill: DGB

We should schedule a hot date at a boxing ring, but not to watch

[popsofctown]

If this is true, then where is our freaking hammer? Someone please for the love of god lynch this guy already.

I'll report for duty at L-1!

My thorny flower has not had the opportunity to post since the L-1 vote.

[popsofctown]

Could you explain to me how you would use tracking info on DGB to ascertain her alignment? If q21 is purged, we've "tracked" her without using any power roles at all. If someone else is purged, we've tracked her to that. If she's roleblocked, correct me if I'm wrong, the tracker isn't going to report any targetting at all.

[popsofctown]

I can't fathom why you have any doubt left to remove about DGB's alignment

[popsofctown]

I always do when I'm convinced someone is town.

Why did you append this to your post?

[popsofctown]

what does sanctimonious mean? That's a big word.

[popsofctown]

Well to be quite fair you purge people. Kind of has holy connotations. Unless i've just been playing too many rpgs.

[popsofctown]

q21 did absolutely no posting in the neighbor QT last night, which is a bit of a change from previous nights. It seems like he had given up or otherwise knew that he'd get purged for sure. Something to note.

Do you folks want a copy paste of the whole neighbor thread? Was q21, implosion, myself, and ckd, although due to the way the ability works ckd was never allowed to post.

[popsofctown]

the scum have already seen it i suppose, so zero reason not to copy paste it. Will do so after class, gotta go. Or implosion can do it.

[popsofctown]

I did some rereading during the night phase (not the full game, but some specific key events). Here are a few interesting bits I found from early D2:

@TMH case: I don't understand why it was scummy to take diddin's daykill power.

Trying to save tmh.

I passed my ability on.
MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

Explain how this is possible if MoI died which should have happened before any ability cycling went on.



TMH passed his power to diddin it seems, therefore they cannot be scum together. Both, though, are scummy, but there is the potential to clear (at least mostly) one by lynching the other. TMH is currently in possession of a very protown power, for all that he gave it to himself, and diddin is in possession of a proscum power. Therefore I'm going to start the day with a diddin vote.

Vote diddin

q21 is scum. The vig/SK should have already taken care of this, but I'm noting it anyways. If q21 is still alive and DGB is dead, he is ABSOLUTELY our lynch.

This is such scummy posting. Feeling equally comfortable with two available lynches is legitimately possible for a townie, but I expect that position more from scum. Reminds me of my rather crappy SK play.

I await your glorious defense of themanhimself as the townie to end all townies. No? I'm exaggerating? Okay, maybe a little, but you get my point. Don't start tooting this horn if you're not going to stand up for it. I started theman wagon yesterday. I was one of the first to really call out Power for his nonsense yesterday as well (although I'll concede that there were others that were pushing for him stronger than I was). Unless you're prepared to man up and say that one (or both) of these positions is fake, then don't give me this mousy, theoretical mumbo jumbo about what I would and wouldn't do as a townie.

My vote, frankly, may be influenced by how these other votes end up going."
The phrasing here makes this not at all sound like "I'll help whichever needs a hammer at deadline", which would be much more ok.

As a townie, this influence should never happen, unless you think Bunnylover and nhammen significantly better at mafia than you are. There's no reason for it except to be in a popular place to be be, which is a scummy desire.

They're REASONING can influence you, and perhaps that's what made this seem ok to let slip. But you said votes, you didn't say you'd like to hear what they had to say.

An all of that aside, even if a gameplan of proxying your vote to the most popular wagon is proper pro town play, there's no reason to warn us that "my vote may be influenced by how these other votes end up going". We'll find out if it causes a change when we find out if it causes a change. Reading that you might sheep on nhammen's and Bunnylovers decisions doesn't make me have to replan how I play the game. Your vote is where it is, and it's possible it can change. That's always the case.

You're reading into this what I was worried might have been read into this statement from the moment I hit submit. nhammen and Bunny needed to make their positions known especially, above all other players at that point. When I said their votes would influence mine, I meant it, but not in the way you're assuming. In no way am I claiming nhammen and Bunny are sure townies here. Their votes wouldn't necessarily have influenced mine in the sense that I was going to vote with them, but that understanding which argument/wagon spoke to them more as replacements would help me assess which lynch showed more promise. Unfortunately, this decision was made before I really got the chance to continue on the issue.

---

A lot has happened, and I'm looking forward to reading what all has occurred since the day has started. I really wanted to make this post though because I don't think pops was being very fair with me in that post. I think he made it off the cuff and I hope this clarifies it a bit.

This stuff reads like safe distancing to me. pops never responds to this post, and instead gets into it with IAI. Neither slot ever voted the other. Also, see this chain of posts (on page 38) for more safe distancing between pops and a confirmed scum (ckd): 929, 930, 933. Look through pops ISO and it is LITTERED with safe distancing from RC, tmh, ckd, and q21. If anyone doesn't believe me on this, or is too lazy to do it, I'll go back through and do it myself, but it is litterally EVERYWHERE in that ISO. Lastly, pops was one of the ones pushing Bunnylover's "slip" early D2 as a reason to force Bunnylover to "eat the virus". Saint and SC were also involved in this. I'm pretty sure if there's still scum, one of the players doing that is it. Since pops has all the other connections, it's pretty much a guarantee at this point. If q21 death happened, DGB died, and the game is still going, pops is certainly the last scum.

orly

There's still scum left. It's pops. I would very much like to apply the hammer to pops.

orly

I would like to hear everyone's opinion on these new most new and dangerous ideas before I offer any sort of defense, actually.

@BunnyLover: the removed-from-game roleblocker is still usable by the removed-from-game joat, so that's one way. Not that DGB isn't scum. Who do you think are good lynch cantidates for today, Adorer of Rabbits?

[popsofctown]

Ah, typoed an extra new in there. I look so uneducated. Though not as uneducated as the girl in my Spanish project group who said that "pin" and "pen" sound the same, and, what's worse, went on to say that "whale" and "well" sound the same. She pronounced both of those as well. As a grammar stickler I almost had to run screaming from the room.

[popsofctown]

Thanks for your input StrangerCoug. No further compliance information is required or will be provided, and you are an excellent test subject!

[popsofctown]

Wrathchild you just lost the game.

[popsofctown]

Wrathchild you totally need to avatar this if I win this game for you:



No child hath more wrath.

[popsofctown]

I meant you lost the game as in a reference to the meme.

A manner in which I meant to metaphorically express that you ruined a pristine state no one was aware of.

Brownies?

[popsofctown]

q21 started with the PR, not nhammen. Then he chose to pass it to implosion, which from the getgo was as scummy as my roommate's toilet plunger.

[popsofctown]

Here is a Persim Berry to cure your confusion: .

[popsofctown]

Better?

[popsofctown]

I will have to look back at the chart, but I think q21/Saint had a handoff which should confirm Saint.

But what if it's a play action fake?

We need to consider all the possibilities here.

[popsofctown]

tbh the failed kill on implosion broke the game.

[popsofctown]

tbh the failed kill on implosion broke the game.

...what?
(Cut by LMP saying the same thing)

well i thought if implosion died i wouldn't have become confirmed town, because i never claimed what kind of ability I had so conceivably the scums could convince everyone that I passed some non-neighborizer ability to some townie and that they passed neighborizer to ckd.

But looking at the chart again actually it looks like neighborizer was the only unidentified role left in the game, seaux....



@IAI: I think LMP might have meant a massclaim of the abilities we're HOLDING, so we can confirm more townies at the expense of losing some PRs. I'd rather get some info on the third faction by lynching DGB though, so we can make sure confirmed innocents are actually confirmed to be innocent.

[popsofctown]

Rofl. Yeah, sorry DGB, confirmed townies need neither their teeth nor their nails to fight their lynch. mulling over your claim atm.

[popsofctown]

Vote: DrippingGoofball

Lateralus22 voted 9th out of 12 on the powerrox lynch, even though the climate would have easily allowed for him to hammer if he'd liked to.


Sometimes you don't have an eternity to spare, eh?

[popsofctown]

brave enough to be on the lynch but not brave enough to hammer so he could use his power role's built in mechanic?

Tough sell.

[popsofctown]

There's enough dead scums that L-almost maximum isn't dangerous. But I'll give you peace of mine, since pressure is not how you beat jello anyway.

unvote

I can cosign everything else in LMP's post. There aren't any powers left in the game that are sooo powerful that we're optimizing nightkills by much with a massclaim.

[popsofctown]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

Cause I was pretty convinced he was scum?

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

N3 I Doc protected IAI with the reuser ability. I then passed it to IAI. N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

That's not very logical. If only confirmed players are left in the game, someone lied about the way abilities were passed. I can't have lied though, neighborizer both cycles and affects the person it targets, and everyone in the neighbor thread watched q21 pass and neighborize implosion, who passed and neighborized me, who passed and neighborized CKD. Implosion can verify this, and he's been confirmed town twice at this point, in addition to having ridiculously obvtown play.

Was hoping he'd make a few explicit statements earlier, but apparently he doesn't quite comprehend that my personal popularity is 20,000 leagues under the sea at the moment.

[popsofctown]

ITT DGB says "the fact that I stay alive is more important than the town becoming composed of only Eruci".