Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Scott Brosius]

RQS is useless and tends to delay scumhunting in my experience. It also tends to be longer than RVS which provides more fluff. I agree with Llama that it just tends to produce faketells that scum can run with.

Vote: Furcolow

[Scott Brosius]

V/LA until Thursday night

[Scott Brosius]

Alright I'm back but am in no condition to start reading. Expect something within 24 hours.

[Scott Brosius]

Alright some of my points may be rehashing, but stating my thoughts as I go along.

The Poison Ivy stating Soviet mafia reasoning for votes early is lame and opportunistic to me.

RQS and RVS are equally useless. How often has a nugget in RQS led you to scum? Rarely. It's only purpose is to get out of the first few pages. But strategy talk isn't going to get us anywhere.

Furc, I'd like to hear why you assume scum have daytalk. It hasn't been my experience that it's the norm here. And how could you not know how closed/open the setup is?

Something about this post is off. I can't put my finger on it, but it really reads as inquisitive scum.

Hey smargaret, remember the last game we played together? Yeah, I have suspicions, but since its still fairly early, I'm not going to put a serious vote down just yet. Not everyone has posted yet either. I'm going to bed now, and will read everything when I wake up.

Why wait for others? It's not like you are locked into a vote. Hesitancy pings my scumdar.

unvote
vote furcolow

i agree that his 3rd question would be more informative to scum than town, and his comment about day talking scum is bad.

This post adds nothing, limited content before this and just following.

poisonivy-i didnt mean prodded by the mod, i meant prodded into doing a wall post by furcolow. sorry for the confusion.

unvote
vote furcolow

do you even suspect poisonivy? that seems like a total omgus vote by furcolow, or maybe just 'to save his own skin' as he said earlier. in any case, he is more anti-town than pi, and when he did his 'zzzzzzzzzzzzzz' post instead of defending himself i knew we were not going to get anything useful out of him.

So you admit to this being a policy lynch. Anti-town not = scum

Honestly a lot of what happened has been crap dealing with Furc and waiting for PI to respond. I'm pretty neutral on PI, and I'm leaning town on Furc.

Nobody is paying attention to pappums rat who has done nothing but address Furc and jump from Furc to PI back to Furc.

Unvote
Vote: pappums rat

[Scott Brosius]

Since when are anti-town and scummy the same thing? Some actions make no sense from scum or town, and some actions only make sense from scum.

This. There is a stark difference between someone who isn't helping town (anti-town) and someone who is scummy. Blurring the lines is sloppy scumhunting.

[Scott Brosius]

@People voting Rat: What do you think about the speed of the wagon you're on?

No problem with the speed, less enthused with my vote after smargaret jumped on. I agree with Beast's comment about his Poison Ivy comment not wanting to have a high vote count. Pressure is the best way to get reads on people.

Sorry guys, I've been pretty disinterested in mafia lately. Why haven't we lynched PI yet?

You have an awful amount of posting in other games to be "disinterested in mafia lately". This comment is suspicious.

[Scott Brosius]

You have an awful amount of posting in other games to be "disinterested in mafia lately". This comment is suspicious.

Ludicrously untrue. I've been sick and not posting very much in all of my games. I even just got quick lynched in a mini on D1 over it. Everyone feel free to verify this yourself. Why are you lying Scott?

I'm not lying. I realize you haven't posted anywhere since that comment. But you have quite a bit of volume around the time of that comment elsewhere, but not in this game. I also find it pretty interesting how quickly you responded to this. Monitoring the thread much?

Unvote
Vote: LynchMePls

[Scott Brosius]

The vote is for obvious lurking of the thread and popping in immediately when mentioned. That is scummy and way too convenient.

[Scott Brosius]

Name claim is awful and only helps scum as others have mentioned.

LMP is participating more unprovoked. I find that the pop-in when mentioned after a few days of no activity is a good scum-tell as it shows that someone is monitoring the thread but not participating. That is much more interesting/scummy than just lurking. But usually scum go back into hiding, especially since nobody agreed with me it would have been a great opportunity to do that. Back to rat.

Unvote
Vote: pappums rat

[Scott Brosius]

The fact that you know this and acknowledge it makes it worthless.

This. There is too much meta talk going around and being used as the basis for cases.

PoisonIvy going MIA when pressure is put on her is scummy, but I'm not going to push her closer to lynch when she's not even around. Still like my rat vote.

[Scott Brosius]

Mass ISOs at this point is pretty pointless especially without a flip.

[Scott Brosius]

Is Fuzzyman ever going to post?

[Scott Brosius]

In #356, gonnano devotes an entire wall to defending himself, with almost no scumhunting. He seems to be focusing on survival rather than lynching scum. I want to see godfather-PI dead today, but he is also a good lynch.

PoisonIvy going MIA when pressure is put on her is scummy

How so? Lurking is frustrating, but not an alignment tell IMO.

I don't like the jmj wagon at all. What exactly is wrong with reading people in ISO? I've been making a list of my reads, and found it very useful.

I agree lurking isn't an alignment tell on its own. But when someone is participating, gets lots of votes then vanishes. That's scummy.

[Scott Brosius]

I agree lurking isn't an alignment tell on its own. But when someone is participating, gets lots of votes then vanishes. That's scummy.

But he didn't vanish

after

getting lots of votes...all of them have come in the last page or so.

Are we both talking about Poison Ivy? She had 9 votes on page 3.

[Scott Brosius]

In case you guys hadn't noticed jmj has continued to stall and hasn't posted in 2-3 days.

He just keeps asking for time, when he could be providing analysis. He's posted plenty to at least comment on the recent happenings without multiple re-reads/isos. I haven't done a single re-read of the thread as a whole, and I think I've iso'd maybe 1 or 2 players very briefly (not to analyze them as a whole just to find something they posted really).

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE JMJ WAGON!?!??!?

Yeah I was interested in seeing his analysis and ISOs if they actually provided anything, but it's clear these are empty promises.

Unvote
Vote: jmj3000

[Scott Brosius]

In short, yes, you are tunneling. And for all that you're so convinced I'm scum that you won't vote anyone that I am EVEN THOUGH YOU FIND THEM SCUMMY TOO, you're not voting me. Why not?

I'll say it again (this is the third or fourth time):

I'd rather my vote go somewhere useful.

Your wagon will not build - I actually think I'm the only person here that finds you scummy (unless I missed someone saying such).

Smarg is pinging my scumdar, just with careful style of posting. More of a gut read than anything thus far. I like this post though, we need wagons or else we are not going to get anywhere today.

[Scott Brosius]

That's all very WIFOMy

[Scott Brosius]

No way a scum is that careless with a fake claim. NO WAY.

The too scummy to be scum argument never flies with me. Especially when it's a replacement in an already scummy slot.

McCarthy really doesn't make sense as a character that would be looking to eliminate threats to peace.

Unvote
Vote: Amrun

[Scott Brosius]

Scum have fakeclaims? Good to know.

[Scott Brosius]

That was a close one... pity that a governor ability was needed.

This really reads as scum knowing that Amrun is scum and trying to get town points for it. "That was a close one...." really rubs me the wrong way.

[Scott Brosius]

That was a close one... pity that a governor ability was needed.

This really reads as scum knowing that Amrun is scum and trying to get town points for it. "That was a close one...." really rubs me the wrong way.

I'm not buying it, Scott. This post was made after I "hammered" someone whom he'd been defending for a while, and denied being scum when I asked her specifically.

Preview Edit: I agree with LlamaFluff.

You rarely see scum admit to being scum, even in twilight. Feysal's post reads as more certainty than a town member should have in my opinion.

[Scott Brosius]

Quite a few people have expressed suspicion of gonnano but he has somehow escaped real scrutiny

Why a gonnano lynch anyway. I know a lot of people have mentioned him but what has he done that's scummy?

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Very good catch.

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

[Scott Brosius]

I feel like DP is someone we can address tomorrow given the whole ThAd deal. I think the votes should be on our top 3 wagons and putting them elsewhere like LMP and DP are currently doing is useless. That being said I like the EGL wagon the best of the three. I still am not sold on the confirmed ThAD townie bit from DP, but that can be settled tomorrow as well.

Unvote
Vote:EGL

[Scott Brosius]

Furc's bulletproof claim then the bounty on EGL's head if he is NKed definitely doesn't add up.

Vote: Furculow

[Scott Brosius]

What bounty on EGL's head are you referring to?

Not an actual bounty, just saying check him out when he dies.

[Scott Brosius]

So I suppose this blacklisting didn't occur given the VC above?

I haven't played with hohum in awhile but I recall he flamed out out a few games I was in, so it could be a vig-shot. I doubt it's useful to look into.

[Scott Brosius]

Ya, because clearly your power was so dangerous that the

scum

wanted you RB'ed....

She didn't say

scum

roleblocked her...

Why the misrep?

Why do people keep insisting this is a scum roleblock,

even after I post the bit about other potential (and potentially town) blocking roles

.

FoS: LMP

, because it looks like he's riding some inside information here. I think scum role-blocking Amrun and going into the day with a "I don't buy it" attitude plan is a potential play here.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption and it looks like we are looking at two scum groups which makes it more likely there is some scum blocking role out there.

@LMP: Artem's post was actually not stupid at all.

@BoS: Where did my post imply that at all? Also, how would you even infer that? Llama was my biggest supporter. If I was on a scum team, how do you imagine we would come to the conclusion to kill him?


Furcolow actually DID say he was a veteran, by the way.

You are full of WIFOM in most of your posts. Nobody can prove/disprove what you would do as scum.

I'm pretty sure I've seen Lowell lurk as town before. Doesn't he always lurk?

Yes Lowell always lurks. I find it best to look at him in the middle of the game, see where his votes have been.

So DP claims this strange Russian fellow. How does that confirm ThAd (Kissinger) as you were quite adamant about yesterday?

[Scott Brosius]

I'm gonna lean town on Amrun. I mean a town roleblocker wouldn't really roleblock a "silencer". I just don't think it's likely. Now if he's scum he shouldn't have been roleblocked at all. The only thing that makes some sense is a different scum group to Amrun's roleblocking him.

Basically I see one of two things happening:
Town Amrun got roleblocked by scum to set him up.
ScumA Amrun got roleblocked by ScumB to set him up.

First seems slightly more probable.

You're missing an option: Amrun is scum and lying about her power.

Even if Amrun is lying (about having this power) which seems unlikely, we will be able to confirm that tomorrow or the next day in the VC. Amrun should not be the lynch today.

[Scott Brosius]

Jester speculation is useless. Furc needs to be our lynch today. Sathoris' increased participation after being called out for it is noted.

[Scott Brosius]

I get the feeling that people are pussying out on voting for Furc and voting DP instead because they're too afraid that Furc might be a village idiot.

It's just like yesterday. I want to get Amrun/Pi lynched, but instead some random gets the noose instead. Can we please lynch the actual scum this time please?

Agree completely with this. There is no guarantee there is another vig to deal with Furc.

The mothrax slot needs to start adding something to this game. Between him and jmj there has been absolutely nothing.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott, an odd night vig is a great indicator that there will be another vig.

Not necessarily. I've been an even-night vig in a game where I was the only vig.

[Scott Brosius]

Everything with the PMs and Sathoris is null. Getting a town read makes no sense from it, but it's a weak reason to push anything on Sathoris either.

[Scott Brosius]

Shouldn't reference ongoing games Amrun.

[Scott Brosius]

But why would you ask Furc why he is still alive smarg? What kind of answer are you even expecting? I think your reasoning for voting LMP is lame, what does that even mean "going for the vig target".

[Scott Brosius]

LMP is the only one making sense here. One of Furc, DP, smarg need to be lynched today. This is what happens when you don't address lies and VI play early in the game.

Vote: DP

Lying and trying to clear another player is the most scummy of the three.

[Scott Brosius]

Everyone who votes you is scum. Got it.

[Scott Brosius]

Would it make sense to say that, regardless of Smarg's alignment, there's probably some sort of scum on the Smarg wagon IFF there are two scum groups?

Well yes it would make sense, but this isn't helpful. As I have said in probably every game, taking a large group of players and saying there are scum in it is completely useless. General probability would say this is true. It gives the guise of scumhunting when in actuality it doesn't provide any information.

Smarg's claim seems genuine. I have yet to see a mason/neighbor fakeclaim (besides once but the person flipped VT). DP or Furc should be the lynch.

bvoigt: Why would you ever make a decision based on character name? Tito and Che have flipped town.

[Scott Brosius]

He's still a liar and a scum and should have been lynched yesterday. More furc votes plz.

Do you have opinions on anyone else? DP also was caught in a lie, why Furc over him?

We have a boatload of scum alive and we have two confirmed liars and players that cannot live until LYLO. Votes should be going there.

[Scott Brosius]

These votes spread out are not helping. We need wagons or else this game is going to continue to stall.

Vote: gonnano

[Scott Brosius]

You targeted Furc to find a town vig?

[Scott Brosius]

gonnano was on smarg for quite awhile this game. This doesn't mean smarg cannot be assumedly other scum but given the neighbor claim seems pretty risky and gonnano flipped scum, I definitely believe the claim. Lowell has been on gonnano most of this game, so I cannot see him being a partner. bvoigt also on gonnano consistently probably not Soviet scum.

DP's replacement needs to post. EGL and Feysal have been lacking in content for awhile.

[Scott Brosius]

FEYSAL? EGL sure, but Feysal has given plenty of content. In other news,

Vote: Furc

, lynch all liars still applies.

Feysal has 4 posts since 3/6. I realize quality>>>quantity, but still poking his head in every few days to avoid prods. Plenty of content is a stretch.

[Scott Brosius]

Yeah I like an EGL wagon today.

Vote: EGL

[Scott Brosius]

It's looking like 8 vs 4 vs 2.

Why so pessimistic? 8-4-2 could be possible, but I think 10-3-1 is at least equally possible.

I think a 3-man scumteam would have a tough time in a 24-player game. With a Day 1 lynch, crosskill, and good vig shot, they could be eliminated by Day 2 in a worst-case scenario.

Yeah I would guess more likely 8-4-2, small chance of 3 man teams with some random third parties running around but given no flips and seemingly no SK 8-4-2 makes the most sense.

Of the other two leaders, feysal lynch makes a lot more sense than EGL. Hammering two town isn't great, but to some extent I'd say at least it shows courage and looks better than just riding the wagon somewhere in the middle. That's WIFOM like whoa, I realize, but it's enough to make me call the hammers a null tell.

The hammers are null to me. The obvious coasting is of more concern.

Sathoris is another one who is coasting. I'm more than willing to jump on a Peregrine wagon if no content is provided shortly. I thought DP was scummy and the slot hasn't done much in a long time.

[Scott Brosius]

Can we please lynch bvoigt today?

Do you have opinions on anyone else?

I don't really have anything to say until Feysal comes in and answers my question.

This is a lame excuse not to provide content. No other opinions on others?

Having everyone tunneling on 5 different people is not helpful. We need wagons.

I like my vote where it is. Peregrine reads noob more than anything but the slot has been scummy. Are you an alt or complete newbie? I assume complete newbie wouldn't be allowed but you never know. Not really seeing the Fonz wagon.

[Scott Brosius]

RL crisis too sad to write here. Hopefully will be back in two days.

Wish you well.

Do you have any opinions outside of Steph? You both have your vote on each other and haven't provided much on anyone else.

Give Feysal a chance.

[Scott Brosius]

So. Feysal's my neighbor and last night he posted once, saying that EGL was the right lynch for today, and I don't buy the explanation of how that changed, since I posted the case I made against EGL in the qt last night. He also posted a bunch of other stuff about how he's found crumbs from players still alive (which I won't reveal) and dead, and pushed me to talk about any investigative roles (ie, he was rolefishing). Much of what he's done in thread and in the qt is setup speculation and rolefishing. The town read went poof. Discuss.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Feysal

The problem here is that if he doesn't flip scum neighbor, you realize you are automatically the lynch for tomorrow? I've never seen a scum neighbor player in a game so I'm not sure what they flip.

[Scott Brosius]

The whole lingering on "hey let's trust each other" by Feysal is definitely scummy. The point of neighbors is not being confirmed unlike masons. There should be no reason to trust a neighbor's alignment and pushing for it is scummy.

[Scott Brosius]

The too dumb to be scum argument never flies with me. Scum are not these evil geniuses that never make dumb mistakes. Still holding off voting for Feysal until he returns to explain himself.

[Scott Brosius]

I'm tired of waiting.

Unvote
Vote: Feysal

[Scott Brosius]

Bulletproof and rolecop >>> JK and ninja (especially when the only there was only 1 watcher that could make the role effective)

N4, isn't that considered me "visiting" Beasts?