Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

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... I'll take that as a compliment, fur.

Too lazy to read through right now, but I'll get to it by the end of the night.

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Forgot to say: hello to everyone I have played with before. There's quite a few familiar faces here.

Anyways, I skimmed the first page or two and the last page or two.

Vote: GhostWriter

Not liking him defending Rat (very heavily, too). And I also don't like that we're almost 10 pages in and he doesn't even have a vote down. Aside from defending Rat, his ISO consists of IoA and questions that go nowhere. Do not like.

Haven't really looked into a PI lynch, tbh. I should probably do that.

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You've asked one question towards another player, got on fur's case about his attack on Rat, and spent the rest of your posts talking about... pretty much nothing important. So any scumhunting you're doing, you're not mentioning, which is not helping the town in the slightest.

Methinks you're scum that's just waiting for a better wagon to build up before jumping on. Possibly with Ivy and/or Rat, although I can't say anything for sure right now.

PEdit: ohai Thad. You're scum again, aren't you?

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Also, for the other non-voters, jmj has not posted since Monday and gonnano is at least giving suspicions.

@gonnano: why no vote?

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Although I can see myself saying that as town, GW, I'm sticking with my gut and previous reasons for suspicion, plus the fact that defense's pure WIFOM, even if you "inb4"d it.

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PEdit: ohai Thad. You're scum again, aren't you?

No, not this time.
You?

Oh damn, you caught me. Curse your excellent questioning skills. I coulda sworn you posted in the QT, though. Something like, "hey, let's make sure to vote together on D1". You sure you're not scum? Maybe you clicked the wrong game PM.

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Not liking gonnano's response too well. It seems like scum waiting for a wagon, just like GW. However, I don't think both these two are scum for that reason. Maybe one of them is, but not both. gonnano's contributing at least. They'd both make good vigbait or "mislynch fodder" (<- this term does not necessarily mean I think they're town), for the record. Preferably GW.

Fuck it, I'll join the Ratwagon for now.

Unvote | Vote: pappums rat

Still want more content out of Ghosty, else I'm jumping right back on him.

@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

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@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

No they arent. GW gave off a boatload of town tells early on, gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

I haven't really seen the "boatload of town tells", nor have I seen any major scumtells from gonnano. I'll have to read into them more I suppose. Especially the latter.

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@People voting Rat: What do you think about the speed of the wagon you're on?

tbh... I don't like it. Especially smarg's reasoning:

yes, i suppose that is true, but i have never claimed to be a good scumhunter, and am in fact a rather poor one.

This does not sit well with me. Are you trying to excuse your future presence on a mislynch or something?

It's a bit of a stretch; feels kinda RVS-y. Do not like.

UNVOTE: Rat
VOTE: smargaret

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I'm liking RedCoyote. On that note, because it has more support now: UNVOTE: smargaret VOTE: GhostWriter

Also, scum most likely have fake nameclaims and/or not all of the names that they were given are scummy. Nameclaiming would be pointless.

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Artem got to this before I did, but what's with the vote hop just because a GW wagon has more support?

I enjoy putting my vote where it matters more. I suspect both of them, but would rather have GW be pressured as opposed to a single vote on smarg that will get probably little following. I can see how Artem finds me suspicious for jumping off the rat wagon once the speed was mentioned though. But TBH I hadn't payed attention to the speed till that was brought up.

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@LynchMe: Rivertown was a game I just finished with furc and he reads pretty much the same in here. I admit I haven't seen his scum meta, though.

I know that was directed at Thad, but I feel the need to chime in since I have a leaning-town-read on furc, and Thad was in that game as well.

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@LynchMe: Rivertown was a game I just finished with furc and he reads pretty much the same in here. I admit I haven't seen his scum meta, though.

I know that was directed at Thad, but I feel the need to chime in since I have a leaning-town-read on furc, and Thad was in that game as well.

A meta read from a sample size of 1 is less than worthless. For 1, you have no idea if that is how he behaves ONLY when town/scum, and for another, people have anomalies in their play. Just because Furc actedthis way in a game you saw him in, and he was town in that game does NOT mean that whenever he acts that way he is town.

Also, as you point out in your response, this question is directed at ThAd, and your eagerness to jump in and defend his premise (with terrible logic to boot) is noted.

You have a point. As for your "note", I understand where you're coming from, but I was posting this as my defense of why I think furc is town (even if it fails logically), not for Thad. He can post his own defense if he wants. Your question just reminded me of my read on furc and I decided to try and justify it. Might as well justify my own reads... or would you rather have me not provide any reasoning for my reads?

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@Mod: I'd like a prod of jmj please. Over three days since the last post.

@jmj: why so no-vote?

After reading PI's last few posts in ISO, she gives off a calm and collected vibe despite being under pressure, as well as some acceptance of being lynched, which in my (little) experience is usually a towntell. I'm abstaining from that wagon for now.

FoS DavidParker

for slapping that vote on there (I could also FoS RC, but pretty much everything else he's done gives me townreads, so).

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jmj wagon is a go people. Lots of people are all basically nodding in agreement, without actually voting.

Cue 3 votes in less than two hours after this post. Something's up. While jmj's being odd and I see the reasoning behind the wagon, it's a bit of a stretch IMO - I'll chalk it up to his playstyle. The wagon speed is too iffy for me and I don't like GW and smarg being on that wagon, either.

@jmj: Can you provide examples of you doing this ISO-thing in other games?

So is that "both" being GW and smarg? What about your vote on Rat then?

I think you're talking about this post, and if you read back and check the context, the GWagon wasn't getting any steam and I liked the Ratwagon at that time.

@IP: Why were there no questions towards the people you were voting for?

I tend to not bother asking a ton of questions (or any, sometimes) towards the people I'm voting for. Usually, I think they're scum, so their response won't sway me either way. An extra vote, even with no questions attached, does pressure players enough that I can use their subsequent reactions to determine if they're scum (and pick said posts apart if needed in order to build a case) or town (in which case I unvote).

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Thad reads as town, I don't like the people on jmj's wagon... while bvoigt's vote change after furc FoSed him does read oddly, LynchMe does have some good points against gonnano (mostly in post 429). I can leave G-dub alone for right now, but I've still got my eye on him.

Unvote, Vote: gonnano

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Thad reads as town, I don't like the people on jmj's wagon... while bvoigt's vote change after furc FoSed him does read oddly, LynchMe does have some good points against gonnano (mostly in post 429). I can leave G-dub alone for right now, but I've still got my eye on him.

Unvote, Vote: gonnano

This doesn't make sense if you think 429 is good. 429 basically premises gonanno scum on ThAd-scum, yet you are saying ThAd is town. What up with that?

Gonnano can be scum distancing himself from town-Thad as well, y'know. Then if Thad flips town he can be all "oh I knew he was town". To be honest though, I didn't realize that was your case's premise (I see it now, obviously), yet I still found gonnano scummy after reading it. I'm a bit tired and probably not making much sense, but meh.

I do have a question for you though - if Thad flips town, then what's your opinion on gonnano? Isn't it still possible he's scum?

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WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE JMJ WAGON!?!??!?

For starters, GW and smarg are on it...


He said it's his playstyle, so I'm not gonna vote for someone just based on playstyle. If he's posting scummy/bad content, that's one thing. And if he does so, I won't mind tossing a vote on him.

Also, when LynchMe pointed out that a bunch of people were suspecting jmj but not voting (which is a common indicator of said person being scum, true (even if this "scumtell", like all, is WIFOM)), he got a crapload of votes in a very short amount of time. IMO, that's even MORE suspicious. jmj can be scum with quick-to-bus buddies, or he's town being sheeped by scum. I'll wait until he posts some content before I decide which it is.

I know someone's going to ask why I'm on gonnano rather than GW/smarg since I keep mentioning how suspicious they are: smarg-wagon won't kick off and GW-wagon has had the same people on it for forever. Basically, read what I said in ISO 10/Post 325 and switch the names around.

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Gonnano wagon's dying down, which makes me sad because I'm not liking a Thad or jmj wagon right now, especially with smarg pushing the Thad wagon.

Weird vibes from 498.

smarg's 507 really rubs me the wrong way - she's pushing the Amrun wagon while staying on ThAd, another high BW. Don't know HOW LynchMe is getting goodposting from that. Maybe I'm just tunneling though.

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In short, yes, you are tunneling. And for all that you're so convinced I'm scum that you won't vote anyone that I am EVEN THOUGH YOU FIND THEM SCUMMY TOO, you're not voting me. Why not?

I'll say it again (this is the third or fourth time):

I'd rather my vote go somewhere useful.

Your wagon will not build - I actually think I'm the only person here that finds you scummy (unless I missed someone saying such).

One player on a wagon affects your read of the wagonee?

When I'm almost certain that player is scum, yes.


While bvoigt makes an okay case on Amrun, I can also see where Am's reasoning is coming from. Her posts read as calm and collected while under pressure, kind of similar to her predecessor. She's reading as town to me.

Yet at the same time, I'm getting odd vibes. But, they're not odd enough for a vote and my gut outweighs the vibes anyways.

Unvote

for now. Sometime tomorrow, in-between sessions of WoW, I'm going to try and do a more thorough reread - I honestly haven't been giving this game 100% effort and I feel bad for not giving things my all. Too sleepy to do it at this time, though. Gimme 24 hours, max.

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So I re-read the first few pages of the thread. Trying not to keep in mind my current suspicions, by the way.


The game starts off with PoisonIvy saying she's played an offsite game where there was a Soviet/Russian mafia. Everyone jumps on and says it's a slip, but I'm really not seeing how it is. It seems extremely hypocritical of DavidParker to jump on this:

3.) Having played a cold war game on golivewire, im going to guess that a) its USA vs. Soviets/Russians. And there is a miller in our midts. FYI its not me.

after just saying this:

I think the setup has been somewhat laid out to us. I assume other people's pms did so too:

Players have a nationality - I'm guessing people are either Soviet or American

(maybe some third parties who are neither), the nationality is not reflective of being "scum" or town though, since players are just trying to eliminate threats to peace. Each nationality will have some players who are threats to peace (and aligned with players within their nationality, and possibly third parties, ie: cuban scum allied with soviet scum). That's my interpretation of game setup as it is. So, there can be soviets and americans co-existing with a town win as long as threats to peace from both nationalities (and possibly other nationalities) are dead.

Both are setup speculation, but PI was obviously talking about an offsite game. It seems reasonable for a townie to draw a conclusion similar to PI's with this information in mind, especially since townies (usually) don't know anything but their own role. If anything, David's in-depth speculation is more scummy than PI. I really don't see how it "resembles a scumslip".

All the "slips" are fabrications of peoples imaginations

:goodposting:

Your blatant lack of knowledge about this set up is scummy, especially your suggestion that the mafia is Soviet

without giving any reasons.

Having played a cold war game on golivewire

, im going to guess that a) its USA vs. Soviets/Russians.

Misrep + 1 for XScorp.

Despite his no-voting and general setup speculation posts with minimal other content, GW makes a good post here:

For me, the big flaw in the "only mafia would think only Soviets were mafia" is that the mafia wouldn't be all Soviets, so why would they think they were all only comprised of Soviets?

Fur's big post has terrible reasoning for his PI vote, but I don't know if it's scummy or fur being an idiot. Smarg picks apart a quote here that I will also chalk up to fur being an idiot. Although he has a point that some townies would be more wishy-washy and unsure, it's all a matter of playstyle. Scum can be "unsure" as well.

...

Scummiest post in the entire thread. Page 4 and no content from you? No thoughts? Unvote, Vote: CML

unvote
vote furcolow

i agree that his 3rd question would be more informative to scum than town, and his comment about day talking scum is bad.

You're not even trying to offer original content, are you?

Again, fur is giving off major idiot-tells.

Lowell's post here has a good point. And GW finally posts again only to offer no thoughts or content on the recent happenings with fur and whatnot.

Let's lynch David parker

hey furcolow any reason why?

I don't like how pappums rat has barely posted any content so far (this is on the bottom of p6) and just comes out of nowhere with this one question as opposed to commenting on anything else in the game.

More fencesitting from gonnano. Don't like.

I think I pointed this out before, but GhostWriter defends rat here:

Being deterred by Rat? How so? The statement on this page aside, the last time Rat said something about this wagon in a negative way was when he called your hop onto it as bad. Which was true. You either soft-claimed while doing it, or honestly suggested that your anti-town ass dying was a bad thing.

Which is funny considering the rat/furc exchange above could be considered rat defending David.

---

I'm stopping at the point where I replaced in. Might continue my re-read another time, plus I have to look at some people, like Feysal, who replaced a scumread of mine and posted lots of big posts that I don't feel like going through right now.

Anyways, here's my new reads:
RedCoyote - town
LlamaFluff - town
LynchMePls - town
Artem - town
Furcolow - VI
Lowell - town
PoisonIvy - town

pappums rat - scum
DavidParker - scum
XScorpion - scum
gonnano - scum
GhostWriter - scum
Feysal - scum

Everyone else is neutral. Some leaning scum, some leaning town, some completely in the middle (most of those are "lurkers" or people who haven't stood out at least). I've changed my read on smarg for the time being, as her first posts of the game are fairly townish.


Anyways, fuck it. I'm tired of waiting for content from jmj, he's a nullread right now anyways, and I don't care if a newer high scumread of mine is pushing the wagon.

Vote: jmj

Give content or replace out.

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So, after a bottle of bel air graves, i've decided

top place

infaltablepie

into the "VI-retard" category. No

objectionshe

here.

Are you drunk or just dumb?

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And for the record, I do not appreciate being called a retard, thank you very much.

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And for the record, I do not appreciate being called a retard, thank you very much.

can dish it out but not take it?
you're guilty of ad hominem

Alright, that was hypocritical of me. I apologize, furc. For the record, though, me chalking things up to you being an "idiot" (or just playing as what I think is bad play) is why I have a townread on you, in case you didn't notice that part.


David can wait till tomorrow, I'd rather go for one of the top 3 today. Unless mothrax pulls a huge townie post in the next short while, then maybe I can switch to David if there's more support besides me and furc.

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Still waiting on moth content. Yawn.

Honestly just posting to avoid prod to be honest. I just worked a 12-hour shift today though, and I work tomorrow as well, so expect a catch-up post on V-Day since I have off then. Apologies for being useless.

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Why make such a dangerous claim when there are still other viable wagons?

Exactly. It doesn't make sense to do this as scum. Gonna mention Occam's Razor before someone pulls the gambit card.

Then Amrun came along and basically claimed Hitler

Different time period, bro.

I have had it up to here with everyone voting for people who are not their top suspects or most likely scum reads. It is batshit crazy. And we wonder why there are 11 different "wagons." It's pretty obvious that one vote wonder wagons are not achieving anything... AT ALL. Let me suggest something crazy: vote for scum.

I wanted to vote for one of the top 3 wagons, and he was my user of choice. I'm trying to stop the "11 different wagons" thing. If any of my scumreads had a chance at gaining support, I'd lay down a vote on them. Otherwise, I'm putting my vote to actual use. How many times do I have to repeat myself? My ISO's 10, 17, 19...

Also, regarding the last comment in the quote: what do you think of EGL?

...good question, er, I honestly didn't know he was even in this game.... He hasn't posted much lately, but he's at least posted content. I'll look more into posts later.

Unvote

I don't mind furc being silenced because his play in the last game we were both in caused a town loss. >:|

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In that case,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun

In that case,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: smargaret[/unvote]

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tag fail, lol

VOTE: smargaret

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Because I believe, like LMP said, that Amrun is a mislynch, and I don't like your hop back on the wagon.

I'd be cool with a gonnano lynch, too.

FoS: RC

for such an obvious rolefish on the last page, to the point where I'm not even sure if I should FoS because that's just plain stupid to do as scum, but there you go.

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Erm... hmm.

I believe Thad's claim. And I don't want an Amrun lynch, so I wonder if this can get going in time for deadline:
UNVOTE: smarg
VOTE: gonnano

Dave's 945 is giving me some odd vibes.

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If Dave's role info is what I think it is, then DP is possibly town as well. Of course, everything gets thrown out the window if scum get mod-written fakeclaims... my gut says Dave is scummy still, but he's more likely to be town if we're on the same track. Thad is near-confirmed town.

Gonnano lynch go?

@Beasts: that post of mine was half-joking, y'know.

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It's surprising how many of you switched to Bunny just because of one posts that conflicts with a post a predecessor made. We've had more than 3 weeks of daytime where everyone made at least several scumtells and some individuals made a buttload more.

Agreed.

I feel like DP is someone we can address tomorrow given the whole ThAd deal. I think the votes should be on our top 3 wagons and putting them elsewhere like LMP and DP are currently doing is useless.

Agreed.

@ ... InflatablePie ...: Give me your reads on DP pls.

Was suspicious of him for slapping a vote on PI way back on his post 350. Was still suspicious of him back on my post 603. His post 945 gave me some weird vibes, like I pointed out. And right now, his actions are indeed suspicious... but the thing is, I also have minor role-related info that Thad may be town. If we're thinking the same thing, then DP is town as well.

...Unless scum get mod-written fakeclaim PMs (as opposed to just getting a name), because then everything goes out the window. I've never been in a flavor-Theme Game as scum, except for YGO Abridged, where I wasn't provided with a fakeclaim (and didn't bother asking) - check my wiki. So I don't know how scum fakeclaims are handled, but I'm guessing it depends on the mod.

Anyways, basically, gut says DP is scummy scum McScummerson, but that one tiny detail is causing me to have doubts.

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Basically, the Che Guevara from the Cuban Missile Crisis would be one of the worst threats to peace imaginable, but in light of his later rift with the Soviets, I have trouble seeing him allied with anyone. The fact that Bunnylover gave his nationality as Cuban instead of Soviet also suggests this. The role sounds like it could be third party more than anything else.

Good point.

Unvote, Vote: Bunnylover

'sides, I would rather lynch a roleblocker than McCarthy, believe it or not, just based on flavor. I *can* see how a town silencer would be useful (being that scum's votes are typically more important because there's less of them), and I can also see how a Town RB is useful, but so much bothers me about the claim: the flavor name, the role itself, the fact that such a famous figure has "only 8 words of flavor"... something's up. Maybe it's even just me being flavor-biased (McCarthy being American and Che being non-American). I don't know if the slip is actually a slip or not, but something is bugging me about Bunny's claim.

I'm willing to bet there are scum around with the win condition "you win when all commies are dead."

It's possible there's multiple wincons besides the "threats to peace" one, I agree.

Anyways, basically, gut says DP is scummy scum McScummerson, but that one tiny detail is causing me to have doubts.

Fine. But we're ABSOLUTELY revisiting this tomorrow. If I'm dead please don't forget this.

Mmkay.

I can't believe Bunny is being wagon'd so quickly. Please note the people switching so quickly after bunny gets flipped.

Like Steph?

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Actually, after I posted that, I realized that it wouldn't actually make sense for a third party to claim

Town Roleblocker

. Disregard the "good point" part.

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Bunny is still an awful wagon. gonanno is still scum. DP is still scum. ThAd is probably still scum.

Better than NL, I agree, it's possible, it's possible. 3 is more likely than 4 IMO.

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Vote: DavidParker

I'm okay with this.

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@IP, can you furnish reasons for voting for DP today? Is it based on his play yesterday?

Pretty much, yeah.

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Unvote, Vote: furc

I like this better, given his latest posts.

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The actual point of the post was a very serious question: What does being pulled from the bunker mean?

Methinks we shouldn't dwell on this.

Still like my vote.

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If I was lying about my powers, I would have picked a less scummy power than silencing. Ugh.

Stop polluting the game with your WIFOM trash.

Occam's Razor.

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@Mod (and players): I will be semi-V/LA from Friday morning until Sunday night (EST) due to working three back-to-back double shifts. I'll try to post, but I can't guarantee I'll have time.

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@BOTS, no, I am pro-town in that I win when the threats to the peace are eliminated, or whatever.

"or whatever"

god he doesn't even know the town wincon omg he's scum

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Given that the town win condition is mentioned in the rules, Furcolow is just making himself look foolish.

god he doesn't realize when I use no punctuation or proper capitalization and start the sentence with "god" I'm usually being facetious omg he's scum too unvote vote Feysal :<

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#1348. That's all I'm gonna say besides:

confirm furc vote.

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I have my reasons for this unvote, and I would elaborate if I

could

... but basically, surprisingly, I think furc is telling the truth now. We can leave him alone for a day or two - if he's town, scum will leave him alive to frame him, so we get a free protect.

Unvote, Vote: DavidParker

I'm okay with this for sure, though.

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Someone put a bullet in gonnano's head already.

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Also, I get the feeling that the current DP wagon is primarily pressure (most likely from scum) to get DP to full claim, rather than being based on DP actually being scummy.

I've been calling DP scummy on gut alone for a while now. You can check me in ISO. Just sayin'.

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Sathoris PMed me yesterday as well.

Not seeing the case. Bit of a stretch.

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Happy Birthday!

Have a great day!

Exact quote. And the post subject had nothing to do with this game, so he's fine.

It's a null-tell because it's not game related. Furc is being silly.

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XScorp: I have my own reason that I cannot disclose.

Still perfectly fine with a DP lynch though.

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Good idea, furc.

Sorry, Sotty, but

I request replacement

. I've lost interest in this game; it's not your fault as mod, though.

Before I go, I might as well give my reads:
1 Beasts of the Sea - town
4 EGL - null
5 (pappums rat) Feysal - null
6 DavidParker - scum
7 LynchMePls - town
8 ThAdmiral - null/town
9 Artem - town
10 Furcolow - town
11 Lowell - null/town
12 XScorpion - null/scum
13 smargaret - null/scum
14 Scott Brosius - null/town
16 (PoisonIvy) Amrum - null/scum
17 gonnano - scum
18 bvoigt - null/town
19 Stephoscope - null
21 nachomma8 - null
22 (jmj3000) (mothrax) The Fonz - town
24 Sathrois - null/town